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Jackson Invites Cosby

I had never seen the Reverend Jesse Louis Jackson cry in public. And
he's
> seldom upstaged. Until, Bill Cosby came to town.
>
> Last week Jackson invited Cosby to the annual Rainbow/PUSH conference
for
> a conversation about controversial remarks the entertainer offered May
17
> at an NAACP dinner in Washington,D.C.That's when America's Jell-O Man
shook
> things up by arguing that African Americans were betraying the legacy
> of civil rights victories.
>
> "The lower economic people," he said, "are not holding up their end
> in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things
> for
their
> kids -- $500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200 for "Hooked on
> Phonics!"
>
> Thursday morning, Cosby showed no signs of repenting as he strode
across
> the stage at the Sheraton Hotel ballroom before a standing-room-only
crowd.
> Sporting a natty gold sports coat and dark glasses, he proceeded to
unload
> a laundry list of black America's self-imposed ills. The iconic actor
and
> comedian kidded that he couldn't compete with the oratory of the
Reverend
> but he preached circles around Jackson in their nearly hour-long
> conversation, delivering brutally frank one-liners and the toughest
> of love. The enemy, he argues, is us:
>
> "There is a time, ladies and gentlemen, when we have to turn the
> mirror around." Cosby acknowledged he wasn't critiquing all
> blacks-just "the 50 percent of African Americans in the lower economic

> neighborhood who drop out of school," and the alarming proportions of
> black men in prison and black teenage mothers. The mostly black crowd
> seconded him with choruses
of
> "Amens."
>
> To critics who pose, it's unproductive to air our dirty laundry in
> public, he responds, "Your dirty laundry gets out of school at 2:30
every
> day. It's cursing on the way home, on the bus, train, in the candy
store.
>
> They are cursing and grabbing each other and going nowhere. And, the
book
> bag is very, very thin because there's nothing in it."
>
> "Don't worry about the white man," he adds. "I could care less about
what
> white people think about me . . . let 'em talk. What are they saying
that
> is different from what their grandfathers said and did to us? What is
> different is what we are doing to ourselves."
>
> For those who say Cosby is just an elitist who's "got his" but
> doesn't understand the plight of the black poor, he reminds us that,
> "We're
going
> to turn that mirror around. It's not just the poor-everybody's
guilty."
>
> Cosby and Jackson lamented that in the 50th year of Brown vs. Board
> of Education, our failings betray our legacy. Jackson dabbed away
> tears as
he
> recalled the financial struggles at Fisk University, a historically
black
> college and Jackson's Alma mater.
>
> When Cosby was done, the 1,000 people in the room all jumped to their
feet
> in ovation. Long after Cosby had departed, I could not find a
> dissenter
in
> the crowd. But in the hotel corridor I encountered a vintage poster
> for sale that said volumes. The poster, which advertised the Million
> Man
March,
> was "discounted" to $5 Remember the Million Man March?
>
> In 1995 Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan exhorted "a million
> sober, disciplined, committed, dedicated, inspired black men to meet
> in Washington on a day of atonement." In 2004, perhaps all that' s
> left of that call is a $5 poster. We have shed tears too many times,
> at too many watershed moments before. While the hopes they inspired
> have fallen by
the
> wayside. Not this time. Cosby's plea to parents: "Before you get to
> the point where you say 'I can't do nothing with them'-do something
> with
them."
>
> Like:
>
> Teach our children to speak English.
>
> When the teacher calls, show up at the school.
>
> When the idiot box starts spewing profane rap videos, turn it off.
>
> Refrain from cursing around the kids.
>
> Teach our boys that women should be cherished, not raped and
demeaned.
>
> Tell them that education is a prize we won with blood and tears, not
> a dishonor.
>
> Stop making excuses for the agents and abettors of black-on-black
crime.
>
> It costs us nothing to do these things. But if we don't, it will cost
us
> infinitely more tears.
>
> We all send thousands of jokes through e-mail without a second
> thought, but when it comes to sending messages regarding life choices,

> people
think
> twice about sharing. The crude, vulgar, and sometimes the obscene pass

> freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of decency is too
> often suppressed in school and the workplace.
THAT TYPE OF HONESTY IS BELOW MY PAYGRADE.
Original Post

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quote:
"The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal."
There must be some hellafied fine print in this "contract" because I've yet to see who is bound to what on the "other end" of the "deal"...

BILL: "Lower economic people,"... Yes, YOU people. No, THOSE PEOPLE. I mean, THESE PEOPLE. Yeah, YOU PEOPLE.

Spoken out of "love" some say. Spoken out of love, affection and affinity, I'm sure.
Can't you just feel that bound and closeness?
That great feeling of attachment? ek
If I advocated Bill Cosby's socioeconomic community bashings once before, I will no longer!

It's about time for Bill to pull off the mask and tell us who he really is.

I didn't mind him preaching to the wayward choir at first. But when I thought about who his commentary was essentially directed towards, I just about lost all patience.

Single mothers are going to listen to Bill chastise the and reprimand them. They are also going to desperately try to follow his wonderfully profound, new, and fresh advice; to no avail. Because when they get through tuning in, their going to realize that they are still ALL BY THEMSELVES. They need HELP, not chastisement. He thought it was real funny patronizing them with the overexaggerated $500 sneaker bit. I guess some people probably chuckled at the $200 hooked on phonics skit as well. We're all just a bunch of bling blingin' illiterate sons/daughters of misfit parents who are dragging the community down... Right?
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
We're all just a bunch of bling blingin' illiterate sons/daughters of misfit parents who are dragging the community down... Right?


HeruStar,

Well, no ... I wouldn't say all. Roll Eyes Would you? And if so, why would you believe that he meant "all" of y'all when that's not what he said? Confused Just asking.

Also, are you suggesting that there is no help for those single parents that he was talking about if/when they need it? Or, if the point is that you feel that he's not doing any of the helping ... then do you believe that it is necessary that he be the only one to help? That because he said it, he is obligated to be the one to help? Confused
If he's not helping, then he is nothing but an antagonist to the community. And if he were helping, then he would probably be a little more socially aware and socially sensitive, instead of looking at everything through his bifocals which only see black and white.

He does not have the community in his best interest. He does not have single moms in his best interest. So really, who does he represent?
EBONY... In a round about way, HERU did answer your question. He said, in essence, that he doesn't believe BILL IS HELPING.

"...if he were helping, then he would probably be a little more socially aware and socially sensitive... He does not have the community in his best interest."

And, seriously...
"...do you believe that it is necessary that he be the only one to help?"
... that's so ridiculous as to deserve to not be dignified with an answer. There's sure to be any number of Black Athletes and Celebrities who can be said to be "helping" and BILL, by fare, is NOT the only one.

So, please.... get off of that.

Kevin Johnson
Magic Johnson
Keyshawn Johnson, etc... I believe they all "help"...
quote:
Well, no ... I wouldn't say all. Would you? And if so, why would you believe that he meant "all" of y'all when that's not what he said?


I do not think that their is any relevance in baby-sitting what Cosby said. He should be ready to defend what's implied. He is not apologetic, he's quite direct, so he probably doesn't have a defense. So I'll assume what I want, because that's quite frankly how he would want it to be, according to his eloquent arrogance.

quote:
Also, are you suggesting that there is no help for those single parents that he was talking about if/when they need it?


Are you suggesting that there is ENOUGH?!

quote:
do you believe that it is necessary that he be the only one to help?


Whaaa
I'm about to shed a tear for poor Bill Cosby out there helping all these people and getting no credit
quote:
Whaaa
I'm about to shed a tear for poor Bill Cosby out there helping all these people and getting no credit
And, of course, that's not the first thing that comes out of the mouth of his defenders.

As I mentioned, other Black Athletes and Celebrities "help" and donate... So why people act like BILL goes above and beyond... well, it's beyond me.
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
If I advocated Bill Cosby's socioeconomic community bashings once before, I will no longer!

It's about time for Bill to pull off the mask and tell us who he really is.

I didn't mind him preaching to the wayward choir at first. But when I thought about who his commentary was essentially directed towards, I just about lost all patience.

Single mothers are going to listen to Bill chastise the and reprimand them. They are also going to desperately try to follow his wonderfully profound, new, and fresh advice; to no avail. Because when they get through tuning in, their going to realize that they are still ALL BY THEMSELVES. They need HELP, not chastisement. He thought it was real funny patronizing them with the overexaggerated $500 sneaker bit. I guess some people probably chuckled at the $200 hooked on phonics skit as well. We're all just a bunch of bling blingin' illiterate sons/daughters of misfit parents who are dragging the community down... Right?


sad thanks
This just confirms that Bill Cosby is so removed from everyday, average people, especially African Americans and the African American poor that he too (just like white America and the rest of the world) only knows African Americans, especially, poor African Americans, through the lenses of a television, mass media, or movie camera. He continually speaks of the stero-types of African Americans and not of African Americans, and what he keeps stating is simply not true for ALL 50% of (poor) African Americans.

Do you really believe that ALL poor African Americans do not have an interest in their child's education, do not encourage their children, condone all of the slang -( often wrongfully misinterperted as broken english out of ignorance, rather slang on purpose)that their young (teenagers, etc.) speak, that all poor black men are "raping" black women, that the "alarming" rate of Black men in prison has not help?

Bill Cosby needs to get to know some African Americans for a change, especially some "poor" African Americans, then maybe he will see how his blanket statements are covering the wrong people as well as those who actually fit his media induced stero-typical images of African Americans that he continues to PROMOTE and shove down the throats of ALL African Americans without a lot of money (while, no doubt, eradicating the stero-typical images of African American with money, who by the way, just like all other American, indulge the same behaviors that he keeps trying to force only on the shoulders of African Americans, or in his words, "the lower 50% of African Americans").
quote:
"the 50 percent of African Americans in the lower economic neighborhood who drop out of school,"
WHERE???

WHERE is this 50% Drop Out rate?
What "neighborhood" is he talking about?

See... This is the BULLSHIT that needs to be straightened out. Yes!! JWC there is "good" in a message full of INACCURACIES, embellishments, LIES, hyperboles and outrageous exaggerations.

A lot of "good" I guess...
quote:
Originally posted by sunnubian:
This just confirms that Bill Cosby is so removed from everyday, average people, especially African Americans and the African American poor that he too (just like white America and the rest of the world) only knows African Americans, especially, poor African Americans, through the lenses of a television, mass media, or movie camera. He continually speaks of the stero-types of African Americans and not of African Americans, and what he keeps stating is simply not true for ALL 50% of (poor) African Americans.

Do you really believe that ALL poor African Americans do not have an interest in their child's education, do not encourage their children, condone all of the slang -( often wrongfully misinterperted as broken english out of ignorance, rather slang on purpose)that their young (teenagers, etc.) speak, that all poor black men are "raping" black women, that the "alarming" rate of Black men in prison has not help?

Bill Cosby needs to get to know some African Americans for a change, especially some "poor" African Americans, then maybe he will see how his blanket statements are covering the wrong people as well as those who actually fit his media induced stero-typical images of African Americans that he continues to PROMOTE and shove down the throats of ALL African Americans without a lot of money (while, no doubt, eradicating the stero-typical images of African American with money, who by the way, just like all other American, indulge the same behaviors that he keeps trying to force only on the shoulders of African Americans, or in his words, "the lower 50% of African Americans").

I was entertaining a kind of Gedankenexperiment?

What do you think would happen if Cosby were compelled to give up access to his finacial and social resoures for 1-3 months, to live in the hood, and to do 40 hrs/week volunteer work at soup kitchens, homeless shelters, battered women's shelters, youth centers, public health centers, day care centers, etc. He will have enough allowance to procure staples and for public transportation.

As some of you have suggested, perhaps the Cosby has lost touch with real people in the community. Do you think an experience such as the one above would change his opinion of the situation? Make him more sensitive or solidify/confirm his currently expressed opinions?
Confused
quote:
Originally posted by sunnubian:
Do you really believe that ALL poor African Americans do not have an interest in their child's education, do not encourage their children, condone all of the slang -( often wrongfully misinterperted as broken english out of ignorance, rather slang on purpose)that their young (teenagers, etc.) speak, that all poor black men are "raping" black women, that the "alarming" rate of Black men in prison has not help?


My question, sunnubian, as I posed it to HeruStar is do you believe that he is talking about ALL poor black people? Confused And if so, why ... since, that's not what he said. It's what critics of his comments are saying that he said. Nowhere in his speech, that I saw, did he say "all Black people". In fact, he never even said the word "Black" at all. But that's another story.

However, you and many others, have continued to intimate that he is talking about ALL lower-economic Black people. Perhaps you can do a better job of answering the question than HeruStar was able to. But, since Bill himself did not use those words, why do you?

And, I'm not trying to attack you or anybody else with this question ... just trying to figure out how you came to this conclusion. Or it you have come to that conclusion, at all.
EboneyRose, this is what I read:

" "There is a time, ladies and gentlemen, when we have to turn the
> mirror around." Cosby acknowledged he wasn't critiquing all [b]blacks-just "the 50 percent of African Americans in the lower economic neighborhood who drop out of school," and the alarming proportions of > black men in prison and black teenage mothers.

----As if Black teenagers are the only ones who become mothers in this country, as if Black men are disporportionately incarcerated without the aid of racism and racial profiling, as if there are never any reasons why African American teenagers drop out of school. While he has so much criticism towards poor African Americans, why does he refrain from criticising the reasons so may African American teens drop out of school, young Black males are incarcerated, and blast all over the media that the reason that it appears that more African American are teen mothers than other groups in this country is because of African American women's reluctance to indulge in abortions as quickly as other group/races of women, not that other groups/races of women/teenagers/teenage girls (since the contempt is rooted in sexism) are not doing the same thing, only hiding their dirt under the rugs of abortion, adoption, and shot-gun weddings?

I have tried to review my take on Cosby's interpretation of the lives of people he knows nothing about, but I keep coming up with the same impression----that there is some alterior motive in all this, of course, we won't know that for fact for some time to come----you know, like the FBI files on MLK.
quote:
Originally posted by kresge:

"I was entertaining a kind of Gedankenexperiment?

What do you think would happen if Cosby were compelled to give up access to his finacial and social resoures for 1-3 months, to live in the hood, and to do 40 hrs/week volunteer work at soup kitchens, homeless shelters, battered women's shelters, youth centers, public health centers, day care centers, etc. He will have enough allowance to procure staples and for public transportation.

As some of you have suggested, perhaps the Cosby has lost touch with real people in the community. Do you think an experience such as the one above would change his opinion of the situation? Make him more sensitive or solidify/confirm his currently expressed opinions?
Confused

________________________________________________

I don't think that it would change his view because he would know that it is all voluntary and he can always opt out. - So, he would merely play along (like a reality t.v. show) until his time was up and come back unchanged.

"Voluntary" is the key word----now if it were involuntary, as in he had no other choice, just like the people who have no other choice (or believe they do not/same difference), then that would be another matter, THEN his attitude would change; life has a way of changing attitudes, points of views, convictions, character, beliefs, and motivations.
quote:
Originally posted by JWC:

For those who are wiling to listen, there is good in his (Cosby's) message.


I could care less how much good was in someone message if the chose to come at me sideways. Patronizing, riduculing, and mocking me are never good ways to get my attention. I guess since he is a comedian he has the license to play the dozens with the community. But not from a political standpoint; with white people behind him laughing at all of his exaggerations and mockeries. Making a spectacle of a struggling community, in all seriousness is not a laughing matter. nono I mean come on! Is this guy for real?! Confused
sunnubian,

I can completely respect your opinion on this. The reason for your anger/frustration is very clear. However, I find a lot of assumptions in what you're saying -- personal assumptions -- which you have every right to ... but if they are indeed unduly asserted, then your argument against him isn't really justified.

First of all, how can you possibly know what he knows, what he has seen, where he has been, who he has/has not talked to in his life? No one, but perhaps his wife, can possibly know that. Who know everything you've ever done and can say with any amount of certainty who you know and where you've been, who you've seen? So, to make the statement that he is talking about people who he knows nothing about may or may not be true. I understand that that's how you feel about it, but how can you really know ... and what if it's not true?

Secondly, if you can perceive that he was not talking about "ALL" of anybody, but that he was referring to "some", and if you can also acknowledge that yes, he was singling out "some" (not every) lower-economic African American as compared to the lower-economic individuals of every race, do you deny that there are "some" teen age African American mothers, or that there is a disproportionate amount of Black men in prison or that the dropout rate for Black children is astronically high? Regardless of the numbers for any other race, when it comes to African Americans, do you not believe that these situations are prevalent in the Black community?

If there really are Black mothers with five and six kids all from different fathers who don't properly parent their children ... then why is it impossible that he was talking to/about those mothers, and not about "ALL" poor Black mothers, or single mothers, or mothers with several children by different fathers? I mean, it's not like he fabricated a specific group of people to talk about. There are many Black males incarcerated today, not primarily because of the racist society they were born into (which every African American male and female are born into and have to manuever through) but simply because they had nobody to care for them and educate them and give them some home training and they fell in with the wrong group and the wrong place and time and are in trouble for it. I know three that I can think of off the top of my head.

Anyway, lastly, in a thread regarding Al Sharpton speaking out on Blacks blindly giving their support to Democrats, it was asked if someone must "encompass the full totality of every position they hold on every issue in every piece of writing from them?" as it regarded Rev. Al's failure to address a different issue regarding his speech. It would seen that in Cosby's case, you think this is true, because you find it upsetting that he didn't go into the matters or racism and discrimation or didn't broaden his comments to include all races of people and go into the subjects of demographics, etc., etc. into his 15-20 minute dinner party speech. But is that fair to expect somebody to say everything about everything everytime they make a speech? Does his omitting those areas really mean that he doesn't know they exist? And how can you possibly know that?

Nmaginate posted a link of the speech in another thread. I don't know if you read it, but I did, and I've gotta admit it was a rather raw, in-you-face type of speech. I could understand being upset at his bluntness or even a certain insensitivity on his part, but if he is saying that there are Black parents failing their children educationally, and there really are Black parents failing their children educationally ... then I don't understand attacking him or being upset with him on a personal level for statements that are unfortunate but true. And I guess that's where I don't understand your anger.
Last edited {1}
I could care less how much good was in someone message if the chose to come at me sideways.---HeruStar

Of course, you are allowed.

The fact remains that what the man said is true.

You can argue that his statements are not true for all left-handed people who are also near-sighted, wear yellow shirts, and earn more than, or less than a given amount, but...

What the man said is true.

His harshest critic, Dr. Dyson, agrees.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
sunnubian,

I can completely respect your opinion on this. The reason for your anger/frustration is very clear. However, I find a lot of assumptions in what you're saying -- personal assumptions -- which you have every right to ... but if they are indeed unduly asserted, then your argument against him isn't really justified.

First of all, how can you possibly know what he knows, what he has seen, where he has been, who he has/has not talked to in his life? No one, but perhaps his wife, can possibly know that. Who know everything you've ever done and can say with any amount of certainty who you know and where you've been, who you've seen? So, to make the statement that he is talking about people who he knows nothing about may or may not be true. I understand that that's how you feel about it, but how can you really know ... and what if it's not true?

Secondly, if you can perceive that he was not talking about "ALL" of anybody, but that he was referring to "some", and if you can also acknowledge that yes, he was singling out "some" (not every) lower-economic African American as compared to the lower-economic individuals of every race, do you deny that there are "some" teen age African American mothers, or that there is a disproportionate amount of Black men in prison or that the dropout rate for Black children is astronically high? Regardless of the numbers for any other race, when it comes to African Americans, do you not believe that these situations are prevalent in the Black community?

If there really are Black mothers with five and six kids all from different fathers who don't properly parent their children ... then why is it impossible that he was talking to/about those mothers, and not about "ALL" poor Black mothers, or single mothers, or mothers with several children by different fathers? I mean, it's not like he fabricated a specific group of people to talk about. There are many Black males incarcerated today, not primarily because of the racist society they were born into (which every African American male and female are born into and have to manuever through) but simply because they had nobody to care for them and educate them and give them some home training and they fell in with the wrong group and the wrong place and time and are in trouble for it. I know three that I can think of off the top of my head.

Anyway, lastly, in a thread regarding Al Sharpton speaking out on Blacks blindly giving their support to Democrats, it was asked if someone must "encompass the full totality of every position they hold on every issue in every piece of writing from them?" as it regarded Rev. Al's failure to address a different issue regarding his speech. It would seen that in Cosby's case, you think this is true, because you find it upsetting that he didn't go into the matters or racism and discrimation or didn't broaden his comments to include all races of people and go into the subjects of demographics, etc., etc. into his 15-20 minute dinner party speech. But is that fair to expect somebody to say everything about everything everytime they make a speech? Does his omitting those areas really mean that he doesn't know they exist? And how can you possibly know that?

Nmaginate posted a link of the speech in another thread. I don't know if you read it, but I did, and I've gotta admit it was a rather raw, in-you-face type of speech. I could understand being upset at his bluntness or even a certain insensitivity on his part, but if he is saying that there are Black parents failing their children educationally, and there really are Black parents failing their children educationally ... then I don't understand attacking him or being upset with him on a personal level for statements that are unfortunate but true. And I guess that's where I don't understand your anger.

________________________________________

First let me say too, that I really do respect your point of view, opinions, and all of the insightful information that you post on this board (especially your "Africa Watch"), but again,

." Cosby acknowledged he wasn't critiquing all
> blacks-just "the 50 percent of African Americans in the lower economic

. . .who drop out of school," and the alarming proportions of
> black men in prison and black teenage mothers."

----------------
I agree that there is a problem with the African American drop out rate, prison ratio, and teenage pregnancy; but as I implied before, his above statement includes ALL lower income "Blacks" in that it infers that 50% of the African American population is indulging in the behaviors mentions, first, that is a statistical exaggeration, second, what is he doing about it other than going around the country preaching only about the negative within the African American community and in a way that also infers that it is ONLY an African American phenomenon. Who is he supposed to be that he has some God given right to publicly reinforce media and ignorance induced stereo-types of African Americans.

Yes, there are high teenage pregnancy rates in the Black community - why? For a multitude of reasons;

Yes, there is a high incarceration rate of African American males, why? They commit crimes just like other American criminals, AND they are constantly under a microscope of racial profiling and harrassment, while young males of other races commiting the same crimes are not, they court system constantly violates the constitutional rights of African Americans in order to get a conviction (while being sure not to violate to constitutional rights of white males just to get a conviction), the schools systems and the juvenile justice system criminalizes adolesent behavior in young Black children, especially young Black males, in order to have "priors" to aid in sealing a conviction for whatever illegal behavior they may have indulged in at a later age, just to name a few of the reasons that there is such a high incarceration rate of African American males that does not necessarily ONLY include there involvement in some illegal activity (just like white/other males in this country).

As far as my not knowing what Bill Cosby as seen, etc., in that case, I don't know what white racist KKK and Natzi members have seen, however, I know that they base their opinions on gross exaggerations with an element of truth to come across as beleivable, while making sure to fail to mention the across the board phenomenon that is taking place in this country in order to purposefully leave others (in their case whites) out of the equation.

I too believe that all of these things Bill mentions needs to be addressed, however, with actual physical contact, intervention, and not with words only, especially with insulting words and inferences that will make the very people who need to change certain behaviors or activities turn a deaf ear or continue in defiance of bowing down to someone who is only spewing hate, insults, ridicule, and condemnation towards them. Just like Herustar mentioned, no one, average Americans nor the Average African Americans are going to listen to what a person has to say that is speaking to them with words of such contempt.

And as far as Black mothers are concerned, I personally don't care if a woman has 5 kids by different men or one child or is a married or single mother, if she is not a good mother she is not a good mother, and if she is a good mother, she is a good mother---the number and circumstances of a child's birth has less to do with being a good parent that the personality, character, and mental stability of the parent(s). Single mothers are not the only bad mothers in this country, even teenage mothers are not the only bad mothers, and again, notice the forever sexist view of always being critical of the 'mother' (female), while failing to mention the bad (or good) parenting of the fathers of the children brought into this world (married or single).

I'm sorry, but I can only see Bill's actions as confirming white racist stero-types and socially sealing 'lower-economic' Blacks further into racist, sexist, elitist stratifications, which in my opinion, at this time in our history in this country we cannot afford any further divisions, media induced brainwashing, stratification, or otherwise.
quote:
Yes, there is a high incarceration rate of African American males, why? They commit crimes just like other American criminals, AND they are constantly under a microscope of racial profiling and harrassment, while young males of other races commiting the same crimes are not, they court system constantly violates the constitutional rights of African Americans in order to get a conviction (while being sure not to violate to constitutional rights of white males just to get a conviction), the schools systems and the juvenile justice system criminalizes adolesent behavior in young Black children, especially young Black males, in order to have "priors" to aid in sealing a conviction for whatever illegal behavior they may have indulged in at a later age, just to name a few of the reasons that there is such a high incarceration rate of African American males that does not necessarily ONLY include there involvement in some illegal activity (just like white/other males in this country).

quote:
Yes, there is a high incarceration rate of African American males, why? They commit crimes just like other American criminals, AND they are constantly under a microscope of racial profiling and harrassment, while young males of other races commiting the same crimes are not, they court system constantly violates the constitutional rights of African Americans in order to get a conviction (while being sure not to violate to constitutional rights of white males just to get a conviction), the schools systems and the juvenile justice system criminalizes adolesent behavior in young Black children, especially young Black males, in order to have "priors" to aid in sealing a conviction for whatever illegal behavior they may have indulged in at a later age, just to name a few of the reasons that there is such a high incarceration rate of African American males that does not necessarily ONLY include there involvement in some illegal activity (just like white/other males in this country).




**This is a very true assessment of the way things are done...I was just talking to a sister whose nephew watched some cops harrass some black kids and all he did was walk over and tell the cops what really happened....and he was arrested.....but the charges were dropped when a lawyer was procured by his parents. How many kids who are in that same situation have those kinds of resources? This kid was an onor student going off to college without even a prior parking ticket on his record.

Bill needs to include the societal factors in his diatribe about black people....we have already hashed over how he made some valid point but how intellectually lazy his presentation was...so i'll skip that one...I am open-minded but I never let people reinfrce negative black stereotypes when talking to me....black people are no different from anyone else...and given the societal barriers we have faced I think we have done a great job to keep it together to the extent we have...I betcha if whites would have faced the same things....then they would want even more than we do in terms of what the gov't provides in terms of enforcement of policy such as AA and EEO.....there are poor people and rich people and behavior tend to revolve around socioeconomic status as opposed to color....Bill and everyone else should get that schit programmed in their thick azz skulls.......
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
quote:
Yes, there is a high incarceration rate of African American males, why? They commit crimes just like other American criminals, AND they are constantly under a microscope of racial profiling and harrassment, while young males of other races commiting the same crimes are not, they court system constantly violates the constitutional rights of African Americans in order to get a conviction (while being sure not to violate to constitutional rights of white males just to get a conviction), the schools systems and the juvenile justice system criminalizes adolesent behavior in young Black children, especially young Black males, in order to have "priors" to aid in sealing a conviction for whatever illegal behavior they may have indulged in at a later age, just to name a few of the reasons that there is such a high incarceration rate of African American males that does not necessarily ONLY include there involvement in some illegal activity (just like white/other males in this country).

quote:
Yes, there is a high incarceration rate of African American males, why? They commit crimes just like other American criminals, AND they are constantly under a microscope of racial profiling and harrassment, while young males of other races commiting the same crimes are not, they court system constantly violates the constitutional rights of African Americans in order to get a conviction (while being sure not to violate to constitutional rights of white males just to get a conviction), the schools systems and the juvenile justice system criminalizes adolesent behavior in young Black children, especially young Black males, in order to have "priors" to aid in sealing a conviction for whatever illegal behavior they may have indulged in at a later age, just to name a few of the reasons that there is such a high incarceration rate of African American males that does not necessarily ONLY include there involvement in some illegal activity (just like white/other males in this country).




**This is a very true assessment of the way things are done...I was just talking to a sister whose nephew watched some cops harrass some black kids and all he did was walk over and tell the cops what really happened....and he was arrested.....but the charges were dropped when a lawyer was procured by his parents. How many kids who are in that same situation have those kinds of resources? This kid was an onor student going off to college without even a prior parking ticket on his record.

Bill needs to include the societal factors in his diatribe about black people....we have already hashed over how he made some valid point but how intellectually lazy his presentation was...so i'll skip that one...I am open-minded but I never let people reinfrce negative black stereotypes when talking to me....black people are no different from anyone else...and given the societal barriers we have faced I think we have done a great job to keep it together to the extent we have...I betcha if whites would have faced the same things....then they would want even more than we do in terms of what the gov't provides in terms of enforcement of policy such as AA and EEO.....there are poor people and rich people and behavior tend to revolve around socioeconomic status as opposed to color....Bill and everyone else should get that schit programmed in their thick azz skulls.......

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The senario that you describe above is one that I have witnessed over and over again. I understand African Americans frustration with the high crime rate in predominately Black communities, especially in the larger cities, however, we CANNOT lose sight of how the United States Justice System is using criminal acts of some to justify the over prosecttion, surveillance, and the improper, unconstitutional and unjust prosecutions and sentencings of so many young Black males (whom by the way they are running out of, therefore, are now focusing on using the same tactics against young Black females).
While I do not promote African Americans or anyone else not doing the time for the crime, the prosecutorial misconduct, unconstitutional practices, violations of civil rights, and down right violations of the law itself makes most of the charges and convictions of young Black males in particular and African Americans in general merely neo-jim crow tactics (and for profit, I might add). Hell, even the discriminatory drug sentences that Black men are prosecuted under are unconstitutional, since in 98% of the cases, the punishment does not fit the crime, which is SUPPOSED to be unconstitutional. Also, you touched on the fact that money is the only thing that can get you proper representation (and sometimes even then African Americans are not properly represented in courts by the attorneys they retain because of the politics the attorney may either be involved in or intends to be, or because the attorney accepts the client's money with the same while having the same venemous contempt as that whice is displayed towards African Americans by their worst enemies.

I too never let people reinforce the negative African American and African stereo-types without comment, but it seems that too many of us have fallen prey to the racist propagandi that promotes the misconceptions, falacies, and contempt for African Americans in this country.
I just believe that Bill does not need to contribute to it. What else is he doing other than talking, and talking from the perspective of a person from a totally different generation of the people he is primarily speaking of, who happen to live or who grew up in a very different world than the one that he grew up in.

I for one would like to see people like Bill Cosby actually get their hands dirty instead of their hearts in an effort to address the situations that they are parading around the country speaking only to people who I am sure already are looking down their noses on the so-called 50% he keeps ranting about.

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