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For the most part its very true, look at the numbers, the black community goes bankrupt every 24 hrs, the dollar does not circulate one time in the black community. How in the hell are we supporting one another. I put up a link not to long ago about this matter from Black Commentator. Most black with alot of money dont live in black communities. What does that mean, their tax base is in a non black community.
Just some questions

Why are wealthy Blacks called upon
to "give back to the community?" a) Many of them would argue that the community never gave them a damn thing and b) there is no community to serve.

Where are the origins of this type of obligation?

It seems to me that giving to the Black community is a behavior that should be done regardless of economic status. Moreover, I would prefer to live, work, and play in a community of committed Black folks than to be a part of one where a negro is expected to pull up in a caddy and drop off some ducats. We don't need checks or media coverage of negroes planting trees or cleaning up the park. We need something entirely more aggressive in scope and depth.
Agree. I also agree that classism is not a one-way phenomenon.



I dont remember poor blacks asking blacks with means to leave the community. It seems to me the more affluent you are the more resources you have at your disposal.If you are struggling to make ends meet and take care of your family , how can you force wealthy blacks to do anything. Seems to me they abandoned their people for greener pastures
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
Just some questions

Why are wealthy Blacks called upon
to "give back to the community?" a) Many of them would argue that the community never gave them a damn thing and b) there is no community to serve.

Where are the origins of this type of obligation?

It seems to me that giving to the Black community is a behavior that should be done regardless of economic status. Moreover, I would prefer to live, work, and play in a community of committed Black folks than to be a part of one where a negro is expected to pull up in a caddy and drop off some ducats. We don't need checks or media coverage of negroes planting trees or cleaning up the park. We need something entirely more aggressive in scope and depth.


appl

thanks
quote:
Just some questions

Why are wealthy Blacks called upon
to "give back to the community?" a) Many of them would argue that the community never gave them a damn thing and b) there is no community to serve.


Because we all stand on the shoulders of those africans who had nothing but sacrificed their lives so that we might have a chance in this white mans world. The rich didnt get rich on there own ,people paved the way and the majority of those who paved the way were poor nameless blacks, who stood up for their people
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:

I dont remember poor blacks asking blacks with means to leave the community. It seems to me the more affluent you are the more resources you have at your disposal.If you are struggling to make ends meet and take care of your family , how can you force wealthy blacks to do anything. Seems to me they abandoned their people for greener pastures


I was responding specifically to your post about "classism".

A) How are "wealthy blacks" _forcing_ anyone to do anything?

B) Isn't a part of "taking care of one's family" providing the best home, school, resources etc. that you can? Are you really telling me that the desire to move to a nicer home or to buy a nice car or clothes is somehow wrong for those who are able to afford them?

C) You brought up "classism". My only point is that "poor blacks" pointing the finger at "wealthy blacks" seems rather foolish. Classism cuts both ways. Being a "
snob" is no different than "hating" - for lack of a better word.
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:


It seems to me that giving to the Black community is a behavior that should be done regardless of economic status. Moreover, I would prefer to live, work, and play in a community of committed Black folks than to be a part of one where a negro is expected to pull up in a caddy and drop off some ducats. We don't need checks or media coverage of negroes planting trees or cleaning up the park. We need something entirely more aggressive in scope and depth.


Fine, so let's keep it real. Maybe wealthier blacks wouldn't move out if poorer blacks didn't tear shit up, wouldn't break into your crib, didn't do drugs on the corner, and didn't destroy their schools. When poor black folks show some commitment to their neighborhoods maybe wealthier blacks would feel more able to contribute and stay.
if you are drowning and you see a brother riding by on a boat with life preserves on them but dont stop and throw you one, how would you feel. Sure their are poor blacks who dont want to help themselves, but the overwhelming are trying and are catching hell out here. Is it too much to ask for those with resources to throw a brother a life preserver. I mean you got 4 or 5 extra ones. Sounds a lot like the rich white guys who say, "poverty is a mental Sickness" its always easier to blame the victim. I guess those who have it will always say, "I got mine nigga get yours" but I wonder who helped them along the way?
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Because we all stand on the shoulders of those africans who had nothing but sacrificed their lives so that we might have a chance in this white mans world. The rich didnt get rich on there own ,people paved the way and the majority of those who paved the way were poor nameless blacks, who stood up for their people

Zakar...

That is not good enough.

If Black folks are making sacrifices so we can live in the white man's world, then we are in serious trouble as a people. It is cool to have your job where white folks work, but at sundown, have your rich, wealthy, middle class, or poor ass home by sundown.

Peace
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Fine, so let's keep it real. Maybe wealthier blacks wouldn't move out if poorer blacks didn't tear shit up, wouldn't break into your crib, didn't do drugs on the corner, and didn't destroy their schools. When poor black folks show some commitment to their neighborhoods maybe wealthier blacks would feel more able to contribute and stay.

It is all about infrastucture and comfort, homie.

Infrastructure - a community with a mixture of classes can work out these issues you mentioned.

Comfort - you can either stay home and be with your kind, or you can live around white folks and worry about other types of shit.

I prefer to deal with the drug dealer in my neighborhood than Tony Soprano in his.
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Fine, so let's keep it real. Maybe wealthier blacks wouldn't move out if poorer blacks didn't tear shit up, wouldn't break into your crib, didn't do drugs on the corner, and didn't destroy their schools. When poor black folks show some commitment to their neighborhoods maybe wealthier blacks would feel more able to contribute and stay.



By the way, this is what happens once everyone else moves out... It's not the cause of everyone else moving out... but the effect.

I swear... some of ya'll sound worse than white folks...
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Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Fine, so let's keep it real. Maybe wealthier blacks wouldn't move out if poorer blacks didn't tear shit up, wouldn't break into your crib, didn't do drugs on the corner, and didn't destroy their schools. When poor black folks show some commitment to their neighborhoods maybe wealthier blacks would feel more able to contribute and stay.



By the way, this is what happens once everyone else moves out... It's not the cause of everyone else moving out... but the effect.

I swear... some of ya'll sound worse than white folks...

Once everyone moved out? Are you serious? The hood isn't empty my friend. It never has been. It's chock full of folks. Are you seriously suggesting that someone who has the ability to afford a better home and a better school for their kids should stay in the hood to show solidarity with his peeps? C'mon, be honest with yourself at least.

And please tell me how someone "moving on up" creates the crackhead on the corner. Confused
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Originally posted by LibDem:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Fine, so let's keep it real. Maybe wealthier blacks wouldn't move out if poorer blacks didn't tear shit up, wouldn't break into your crib, didn't do drugs on the corner, and didn't destroy their schools. When poor black folks show some commitment to their neighborhoods maybe wealthier blacks would feel more able to contribute and stay.



By the way, this is what happens once everyone else moves out... It's not the cause of everyone else moving out... but the effect.

I swear... some of ya'll sound worse than white folks...

Once everyone moved out? Are you serious? The hood isn't empty my friend. It never has been. It's chock full of folks. Are you seriously suggesting that someone who has the ability to afford a better home and a better school for their kids should stay in the hood to show solidarity with his peeps? C'mon, be honest with yourself at least.

And please tell me how someone "moving on up" creates the crackhead on the corner. Confused


When I referred to "everyone" I was specifically referring to those of higher financial means.

I meant: This is what happens when everyone but the the poorest move out.

If you take any community (white or black, rich, or not so rich) and then drain it of its most outstanding members (outstanding educationally, professionally, financially, etc), then there's going to be a corresponding drop in the quality of life of that community.

Furthermore, "outsourcing" is not a new phenomena. It began in the cities decades ago.

So remove the human capital. Remove the primary sources of respectable employment (i.e., the industrial base)... What happens? Unemployment... Then there's less money to spend in the community... So businesses fail... Producing greater unemployment... producing crime...

It's the sociology of American cities in the last 5-7 decades. Do your homework.

Otherwise you'll be doomed to be as poorly informed about the world (and your own people) as the white America we spend so much time complaining about.
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quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

It's the sociology of American cities in the last 5-7 decades. Do your homework.


What sociological studies have you been reading that say that poverty = crime. Where'd you get that, in The Bell Curve or something? Confused That is probably the most classist and racist thing I've heard in years. There are plenty of lower income communities that do not have crackheads on the corner or even higher crime rates. It is ridiculous and offensive for you to presume otherwise.

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Otherwise you'll be doomed to be as poorly informed about the world (and your own people) as the white America we spend so much time complaining about.


And you are either the most naive "brotha" here or the most duplicitous (or maybe dioshonest) to pretend like you don't understand that if there is a decision to be made between spending one's hard earned money on buying a nicer home and getting your kids in a better school to put them on the path to a better life versus staying in the hood for the purpose of demonstrating solidarity - that the decision goes to your family and children. You'd be a damned fool to stay in the hood if you could get out.

Are you living in the same neighborhood that you grew up in? If not, why not? If not, didn't your Ivy League education earn you the opportunity to live in a nice area? Don't you want better for your kids than you had? If you could give them the best education and experiences in life, are you really not going to do that for fear of being called a sell out by someone who would do the exact same thing you would do in getting out if they had the chance?
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Originally posted by LibDem:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

It's the sociology of American cities in the last 5-7 decades. Do your homework.


What sociological studies have you been reading that say that poverty = crime. Where'd you get that, in The Bell Curve or something? Confused That is probably the most classist and racist thing I've heard in years. There are plenty of lower income communities that do not have crackheads on the corner or even higher crime rates. It is ridiculous and offensive for you to presume otherwise.


I'm confused... I believe it was you who said

quote:
LibDem:
Fine, so let's keep it real. Maybe wealthier blacks wouldn't move out if poorer blacks didn't tear shit up, wouldn't break into your crib, didn't do drugs on the corner, and didn't destroy their schools. When poor black folks show some commitment to their neighborhoods maybe wealthier blacks would feel more able to contribute and stay.



and you call me a classist/racist????? Brotha, I think you might be a little confused about where you stand on this issue...

And for the record, I did not say that poverty=crime. Or that all poor people are crackheads. Or any such thing. That's quite an oversimplification of what I said.

Whatever... giveup
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Originally posted by LibDem:
And you are either the most naive "brotha" here or the most duplicitous (or maybe dioshonest) to pretend like you don't understand that if there is a decision to be made between spending one's hard earned money on buying a nicer home and getting your kids in a better school to put them on the path to a better life versus staying in the hood for the purpose of demonstrating solidarity - that the decision goes to your family and children. You'd be a damned fool to stay in the hood if you could get out.

Are you living in the same neighborhood that you grew up in? If not, why not? If not, didn't your Ivy League education earn you the opportunity to live in a nice area? Don't you want better for your kids than you had? If you could give them the best education and experiences in life, are you really not going to do that for fear of being called a sell out by someone who would do the exact same thing you would do in getting out if they had the chance?
bow appl

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Originally posted by Shango67:
I prefer to deal with the drug dealer in my neighborhood than Tony Soprano in his.


*looks at the size of Shango*

You do realize that is not a reasonable or wise option for everyone, right? A big ol' buck like yourself can afford to stay around and battle with the thugs and dealers and everything else. Poverty breeds desperation. Desperation breeds crime. Crime breeds lots of traumatized innocents who are lucky if they don't end up in a pine box over nonsense.

I had my own experience with Los Desperados living in Brooklyn. Never again. HELL NAW!!

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Why would you raise your children to affiliate with people based on economic and social status? why not raise your children to affiliate with people with character, self respect and a sense of pride in who they are? When them majority of black people are working class and poor, why would we play into classism?


Groups formed with attention to economic status can be quite beneficial for children. We've all heard people say "I didn't know I was poor growing up, until I got around kids from other neighborhoods." How easy is it for poor children to continually interact with rich children, without feeling down about their economic status or material possessions, etc? Poor ADULTS have problems or reservations about interacting with rich folks. Likewise, how easy is it for rich children to continually interact with poor children, without feeling guilty or uncomfortable about their possessions and experiences, etc? These are just babies. Let them congregate with the kids around them and not get all caught up in adult hysteria. We're so concerned with whether we can, we don't stop to think if we should.

There is nothing preventing anyone from contributing to the development of programs in poor neighborhoods. Being bused into the burbs is not the only way to be exposed to excellence or culture.

Furthermore, how do you pick a group of kids who will eventually have "character, self respect and a sense of pride?" Those things develop and change over time. It's more reasonable to think "Your family is like my family. I teach my kids these things and emphasize these things. Chances are, you do too."

The working class and poor certainly play into classism. We spoke about this a bit a while back when I posted an article about poor folks wearing expensive designer things and trying to pass off the idea that these things are easily affordable and what they are used to, unlike "them OTHER poor folks." (Reminds me of a girl I met who claimed to be allergic to anything not made by Prada.) Not to mention the obsession some people have with becoming part of a "higher class."

I'm Out.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
LibDem:
Fine, so let's keep it real. Maybe wealthier blacks wouldn't move out if poorer blacks didn't tear shit up, wouldn't break into your crib, didn't do drugs on the corner, and didn't destroy their schools. When poor black folks show some commitment to their neighborhoods maybe wealthier blacks would feel more able to contribute and stay.



and you call me a classist/racist????? Brotha, I think you might be a little confused about where you stand on this issue...


All I said was that those behaviors occur in the hood. I didn't personalize it or attempt to label an entire class of people. The fact of the matter is that those behaviors do occur in the hood, and are more likely to occur there than in middle class neighborhoods. Are you going to disagree with that?

You may feel emotionally uncomfortable with what I said, but do you disagree with it? If you disagree, then what do you believe is the chief reason why blacks leave the hood? You must believe that they are running away from other black folks. Why else would they leave if things like quality schools and rising property values are available there?

By the way, will you answer any of the questions I posed to you?
The fact of the matter is that those behaviors do occur in the hood, and are more likely to occur there than in middle class neighborhoods. Are you going to disagree with that?

bullshyt, most of the people who come into the hood to buy drugs live outside of the hood.

The working class and poor certainly play into classism. We spoke about this a bit a while back when I posted an article about poor folks wearing expensive designer things and trying to pass off the idea that these things are easily affordable and what they are used to, unlike "them OTHER poor folks." (Reminds me of a girl I met who claimed to be allergic to anything not made by Prada.) Not to mention the obsession some people have with becoming part of a "higher class."

Of course some blacks buy expensive items and want to live above their means. But so does most middle and upperclass blacks, so dont just put that on the working classes and the poor.


Poverty breeds desperation. Desperation breeds crime. Crime breeds lots of traumatized innocents who are lucky if they don't end up in a pine box over nonsense.

Have any of you people been down south , in any rural areas> there are a whole lot of poor and working class blacks doing all they can do to keep their heads above water. These are the brothers and sistas who farm, who work in the manufactoring industry , logging, etc. Maybe some of you negroes need to leave the big house some time and stop buying that shyt you see on tv. In fact in every inner city i've ever lived in there were only about 5% of the people living there participating in drug dealing,robbing, stealing etc.The overwhelming amount of people in the inner city are very hard working individuals.Alot of you negroes remind me of what 'France Fannon called "black Skin white mask"
Let's get something straight. Crime exists just about everywhere. I hate statistics BUT I'm sure they would show that certain crimes are more prevalent in certain economic classes' i.e. white collar crime vs. blue collar crime. But certain crimes are NOT the domain of certain classes of people. Believe it or not there have been white suburban crackheads.

I knew a white woman with a PhD in Psychology that casually admitted that she and her friends growing up would make Crystalmeth in their basements. Drugs abuse is drug abuse weather it is crack in the "hood" or crystalmeth in the "suburbs".

My book club is reading "Covenant". I've just picked it up and glanced thru it. I'm sure, as with most books like these, the ideas and "plans" are good ones. But it's my personal belief the heart of the problems we face are not external but internal.

We have GOT to change the mentality of people – rich and poor.

I think that was what discussed me about the Black bourgeoisie when I read "Our Kind of People". One woman stated "why should I go into the poor areas and work with or help unwed mothers and such...white people don't.

As I said, when Blacks were being excluded from mainstream America what the J&J crowd did was needed. But like I also said, it seems that their ideas were perverted. During those times we had people of wealth look at the story of "Black Wall Street". I'm sure that mixed in with those blacks that were achieving there were all other classes from the dirt poor to those that were "getting by" much like we have today.

But as some on the board have pointed out when "integration" started we lost some important things. That is when we made the worst "sacrifices". Staying with your people back then and not moving away wasn't a sacrifice and it probably made a bigger impact then we realize.

I believe that the way to break the cycle we see in the poor and wealthy black communities is a mindset that promotes more interaction not less, not exclusive thinking but inclusive thinking, not just for some but for everybody.

Think about it. Why do so many young black men and women have such a limited scope on what is available to them in life? It's not just the so called lack of resources but the lack of role models. Why wouldn't most young black boys dream of being in the NBA, NFL, or a part of the Hip Hop game? Those are the most prevalent images. How many poor black children get to see on a continual basis the Mae Jamison or Ben Carsons?

When the blacks that were doing well were more accessible in the black community they set an example and help to maintain and keep the community respectable.

We have been sold a bill of goods. We have been successful, had nice and even nicer things then our white brethren (see Black Wall Street) AND been in the black community. Being with your people – even the poor – should never have turned into a "sacrifice".

It's hard for people to reach great heights when the bar is set low for them. Successful blacks in the community set the bar high for our people. It gave them more "real" images of successful blacks.
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Its not that most black kids think learning is acting white or their only chance at getting a head is through sports and entertainment. The fact of the matter is in the last 10 or 15 years the nature of the economy began to change so rapidly people were not prepared for it. Instead of the technical schools and shop classes many kids would get into were cut out. The construction jobs dried up because of the undercutting by illegal labor.Manufacturing shut its doors and moved to Mexico, India and China. What happened was alot of the bottom has fallen out of the blue collar jobs. Now more and more you have very low end low paying jobs ,and very high end paying jobs. Many people are not college material, many like using their hands, many cant afford it. The people lack resources.Add to that the flight of the black wealth, there was nothing inside the community that could sustain it. It was all being sustained from outside. We do not own and hire our own.Many people see these uppity negroes who have so called made it, never come back, completely stop socializing with their community so they dont see how that benifits them and if fact many despise people with that type of attitude so that discourages them from being like that. What good is an education if it only helps the individual????
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What good is an education if it only helps the individual????


It's funny that we are a group of people that use terms like "brother, Sister, peeps" but can't work with each other like we would or should if we were blood related.

There have and will always be circumstances i.e. economic changes etc. But having the those that are doing well interacting could reduce the impact.

And yes, those that are not doing well do look at those that are as sell outs. That's got to change also.
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You do realize that is not a reasonable or wise option for everyone, right? A big ol' buck like yourself can afford to stay around and battle with the thugs and dealers and everything else. Poverty breeds desperation. Desperation breeds crime. Crime breeds lots of traumatized innocents who are lucky if they don't end up in a pine box over nonsense.

Frenchy... Please.

There is a large distortion about the so called "hood" and Black on Black crime. For one, crime is race inclusive. People rob and steal where they live. Murder, no matter where you live, is a crime that is OVERWHELMINGLY one where the victim know the killer.

I chose Harlem because the I love my people. And when I walk out my apartment, I speak to the local merchants, give pounds to the brothers who seem to have nothing to do, say good morning to the sistas, and I participate in community events.

Civic engagement, regardless of status, can change the dynamics of your community much more than police patrol, integration, and government empowerment zone money. BLACK FLIGHT, which is the opposite of community involvement and partcipation, ruins people no matter what the environment.

And think about it this way - using Harlem (Upper Manhattan) and Bed Stuy (Planet Brooklyn - my place of birth) as a case study. The Black elite and middle class fled both of these communities, leaving behind not only a vulnerable people but crazy wealth. Propery, once devlaued by white effots of gentrification, are now worth MILLIONS. The average brownstone (pre war homes that are very very spacious, well built, cool in the summer and maintains heat in the winter...) sold for approx. 85,000 in 1986. Twenty years later, a brownstone in less than desirable shape, is fetching 2 to 3 million in the market. Who are buying these homes? WHITE FOLKS. In fact, 125th Street and Malcolm X Blvd is beginning to look like Salt Lake City, Utah.

Why are crackers moving to the places we have deemed the mean ole nasty hood?
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
Its not that most black kids think learning is acting white or their only chance at getting a head is through sports and entertainment. The fact of the matter is in the last 10 or 15 years the nature of the economy began to change so rapidly people were not prepared for it. Instead of the technical schools and shop classes many kids would get into were cut out. The construction jobs dried up because of the undercutting by illegal labor.Manufacturing shut its doors and moved to Mexico, India and China. What happened was alot of the bottom has fallen out of the blue collar jobs. Now more and more you have very low end low paying jobs ,and very high end paying jobs. Many people are not college material, many like using their hands, many cant afford it. The people lack resources.Add to that the flight of the black wealth, there was nothing inside the community that could sustain it. It was all being sustained from outside. We do not own and hire our own.Many people see these uppity negroes who have so called made it, never come back, completely stop socializing with their community so they dont see how that benifits them and if fact many despise people with that type of attitude so that discourages them from being like that. What good is an education if it only helps the individual????


Zakar, this is pecisely part of the point I was trying to make. I was not trying to diss on the poor.

To answer LibDem's question:

No...I would not move back to the neighborhood I grew up in. Because to do so would require me to quit my job and uproot myself 400 miles away to a city and state where I haven't lived for more than 25 years. I would not do that even if the neighborhood was a wealthy one (which it is not).

I grew up on the "bad side" of town... and you know what? I didn't know it was the bad side... or particularly dangerous... until I grew up and people told me that it was.

Speaking of which, I have actually considered moving to the "west side" of the city where I currently live... and trust me... the west side is not the hottest piece of real estate in town... but I think it would be nice to live in a predominately black area.

And no... I was not encouraging people to move next door to a crack house or to a crime ridden neighborhood. That was NOT my intention.

What I was saying is this:

How do white folks define a "nice neighborhood"?

It's a wealthy one where there aren't too many black folks (of any social class).

"Nice neighborhoods" follow capital... Capital follows white flight...

My point was that crack houses and gangs in an area don't just pop up overnight... They occur as part of the aftermath of an overall process of dis-investment in an area. There are larger economic and social forces at work.

One more time: I was not dissing the poor... I was merely trying to challenge us to understand larger patterns of disinvestment in certain neighborhoods. I think that if we fail to acquire this understanding, then all we're doing is blindly following white folks even as they are trying to get away from us...

My apologies if I expressed myself poorly.
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Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
I hate statistics BUT I'm sure they would show that certain crimes are more prevalent in certain economic classes' i.e. white collar crime vs. blue collar crime. But certain crimes are NOT the domain of certain classes of people.

I think this quote nicely illustrates the conflict of this issue for most black people. One the one hand you say that "certain crimes are more prevalent in certain economic classes" yet in the next sentence you seem to attempt to either soften that statement or contradict it.

I didn't say that crime didn't exist outside the hood. I didn't say that drug problems don't exist outside the hood. In fact I made no assumptions, other than to note that the hood is where many social ills exist, for whatever reason. All I said was that if someone has the chance to provide a better environment with respect to schools for their kids, a neighborhood with less of those ills for their family etc., who is going to make the decision to stay? I also asked what person who is currently in the hood, and arguing about those outside, given the opportunity to leave would stay themselves? This leaves me with the feeling that this argument is really about "jealousy" and not any real interest in building the black community. Now there are people, certainly, who want to build our community, but in general who is going to withhold advantages from their children to do it?

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I think that was what discussed me about the Black bourgeoisie when I read "Our Kind of People". One woman stated "why should I go into the poor areas and work with or help unwed mothers and such...white people don't.


Does it make sense to label an entire class of people because of something you read about someone in one book? Your style of argument seems to be to illustrate one extreme example of something and try to extrapolate that onto the entire group of people. It makes no sense.

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But like I also said, it seems that their ideas were perverted.


How and by whom? What is your evidence of this? Is your problem with Jack & Jill or with not feeling good about your level of achievement against theirs?

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During those times we had people of wealth look at the story of "Black Wall Street". I'm sure that mixed in with those blacks that were achieving there were all other classes from the dirt poor to those that were "getting by" much like we have today.


To suggest that classism is a new phenomenon is uninformed. During Reconstruction those who achieved were those who had the benefit of more education and experience prior to freedom.

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I believe that the way to break the cycle we see in the poor and wealthy black communities is a mindset that promotes more interaction not less, not exclusive thinking but inclusive thinking, not just for some but for everybody.


I agree, but what responsibility do the black poor have to this effort? Everyone puts the onus of the middle class when they're struggling to put food on their table too. What do the black poor have to bring to this "deal"?
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We have been sold a bill of goods. We have been successful, had nice and even nicer things then our white brethren (see Black Wall Street) AND been in the black community. Being with your people – even the poor – should never have turned into a "sacrifice".


I agree, but are you going to keep your kids in the hood and prevent them from going to better schools and deny your family the opportunity to benefit from a higher growth in property values?
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Originally posted by Shango67:
Why are crackers moving to the places we have deemed the mean ole nasty hood?


To make money! Because they know that in 5 or 10 or whatever years that all of the black folks will have been pushed out and they will have speculated on property that will be more valuable to them. You don't think they are buying there to be with black folks do you?
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To make money! Because they know that in 5 or 10 or whatever years that all of the black folks will have been pushed out and they will have speculated on property that will be more valuable to them. You don't think they are buying there to be with black folks do you?

Maybe it is about making money, but I think it is about the urban aesthetic... the same aesthetic that Black folks give up because they labor under the mythology that living where white folks live is somehow the magic formula to personal and family success.
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Originally posted by Shango67:
... the same aesthetic that Black folks give up because they labor under the mythology that living where white folks live is somehow the magic formula to personal and family success.

That's BS - both dishonest and untrue. There are plenty of upper middle class black neighborhoods around the country. Where there aren't those neighborhoods, people move where they can to get the most for their money in terms of property value and education. You demonstrate your own pathology (or ignorance) in suggesting black people move to be with whites.
I think people need to understand the Real Estate game. Understand how the housing market works for white people. Look at PG County Md, the most affluent black community in America. But guess what when all those wealth blacks baught those houses out in the Suburbs the price they paid for them then is higher than the price its worth now. Why is that. the whole game is the ability to pull equity out of your homes, but the system that is used punishes black communities
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That's BS - both dishonest and untrue. There are plenty of upper middle class black neighborhoods around the country. Where there aren't those neighborhoods, people move where they can to get the most for their money in terms of property value and education. You demonstrate your own pathology (or ignorance) in suggesting black people move to be with whites.

So you say... but the pathology is not mine - I am just publishing my observations.

It is my sense that the majority of upwardly mobile Black folks in this country sub-consciously and consciously see acceptance by whites... in white spaces... on their terms... as a badge of honor. We walk around saying dumb shit like;

*He is the first Black man to be accepted by the country club

*She is the first African American to be a member of congress

*He is the first Black graduate of Cracker University

*She was the first African American in space

*He was the first African American to play major league baseball

*They were the first African American family to move into this neighborhood.

And then we smile, shake hands, and eat pigs in the blanket, as we are spun around the room while crackers applaud and show their approval.

Most, if not all of the people paraded in front of us as heros have the same title of being the first African American to be embraced by white peoples. How many Black heroes got the title of

*He was the first Black man of wealth to return to his community after law school

*She was the first Black teacher to build an African centered school in Brooklyn

*He was the first Black man who slapped Jackie Robinson for leaving the Negro Leagues.

*She was the first African American woman to denounce amerikkkan citizenship and move to Africa.
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
So you say... but the pathology is not mine - I am just publishing my observations.

I intend no disrespect, but you need to get out and meet some more people. You obviously live a very sheltered life. Perhaps if you had focused on getting to know your Jack & Jill mates instead of your feelings of inadequacy you would have a broader worldview, one that would be much more in line with your self-professed Pan African interests.
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
quote:
At the end of the day, Tony Soprano is far less likely to vic me for what little shit I have as opposed to the crackhead who would slit my throat for $20.

Crackheads aint running around slitting throats for twenty bones. In fact, there are no more crackheads left.


Wow, I wonder where these utopian lands are. No more crackheads...

I will say that I don't know how many crackheads actually go around stabbing people; most of the crackheads I see (still, even though Shango says they don't exist) are not capable of physically hurting people... I don't know.

But to HB & Shango, I think you have things a bit mixed up. People of means leave the hood BECAUSE of the crime, violence, and substandard living. That would logically mean that the crime, violence and substandard conditions existed BEFORE they moved. It was the original WHITE flight that contributed heavily to the decline in these neighborhoods, for a plethora of really outrageous reasons. But the black people who have since fled did not cause the decay. The decay was already there. There is no exodus of black people from stable, safe, quality black neighborhoods, and I defy one of you to support otherwise.

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