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Theres plenty of racism. Always has been. And its hardly restricted to america for that matter. There is also violence, perversity, intolerance, and craziness in ALL societies. Do we now define a society as 'crazy' since it has crazy folks within it? Do we say that muslim culture is intolerant because there exists intolerance within it? Are black people as a whole, a murderous race, since there are in fact murderers within it?


No, of course we do not. Again, please explain why michael jordan, bill cosby, oprah, and on and on and on, can be at the TOP of the economic, social, and popularity ladders all while existing within your 'entirely racist american society'. I'd really like to hear that one.
1.
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

But WHO was it that WAS doing the singing and dancing mbm? And there ARE celebrated black coaches, singers, actors, stars, musicians, idols, miss americas, politicians, religious leaders, secretary of states, and throughout EVERY facet of life we are there. Again, never would you see that in a 'racist' society.




2.
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

Theres plenty of racism. Always has been.


Please justify the two statements against each other.



quote:
There is also violence, perversity, intolerance, and craziness.


Why are you so willing to acknowledge these human frailties, but not racism?


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
Lofton,
You are obviously mentally ill as you wish things on others without proof. They should have locked your azz up as a kid and destroyed the key. worthless huh? well I am sure my contributions to the black race far outweigh those of a self-hating apologist negro....man i would love to see what sistah dates your warped azz because she has to have mental issues also just to see your azz as normal.....so since you wish that on MJ, maybe you'll get arrested and ran up in. the sad part is...you'd probably love it if it was a white guy doing it to you wile shouting, "I HATE ALL N-GGERS EXCEPT FOR YOU LOFTON!!!! You would really be in your element, because you are always eluding to that type of behavior.........


Sgt....you're just a plain dum azz rag-head house negro.....If there was ever a revolution, your type would have to be the first to go.......
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

And now, so is yours. You cannot explain any of that can you.

Alright, if you need escape, you got it.

Nice chattin.


I see someone getting sent back to the "?" forum again! rotflmao


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
Sgt. CONFESS YOUR WHITENESS!

It is crystal clear. You are TRANSPARENT!
Only a WHITE person believes and is DEAD-set on believing in extreme, absolutes...
ALL-OR-NOTHING!

"America is a Christian nation"
That means ALL Americans are Christian or if it's false then NO American can be Christian. Confused

Great Logic! Sarge!

"Saddam Hussien - aka SO-DAMN INSANE - was a terrible, brutal tyrannical leader and repressed the "Iraqi" people. He was very bad for them."
Either ALL the Iraqis suffered or NONE of the Iraqis suffered. If one or a few Iraqis obtained wealth then Saddam is a great leader!!

NO! NO! NO! T*tty MILK!

We like to eat meat around here. We'll order some Gerber purees for you.
fro "BOOGIE!"
Sgt, you are still talking about the exceptions not the rule. What about the rule?!!!! You admit there is racism so if that is the case how can you ignore the rule and stick with the exceptions?

You are so easily convinced that racism is not an important component in the high unemployment rate of blacks or how high they fly but I think there are some other issues in play with you regarding this subject.

In my opinion we work as a community to create our own job market by being biased in our spending habits. Because as it is in every society the majority hires those who looks and acts like them and also they except negative stereotypes as an excuse for their hiring and promotion practices. It's the real world and we must act accordingly.

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.
June, sorry, but I'm not getting all this the rule the exceptions stuff. Can you explain that a bit?

And yes, racism is NOT the cause of unemployment, nor the cause of crime, nor many of the other ills that mantras of rich black lawyers and activists have been trying to convince us of for so long. You see, if you tell someone something long enough, especially while they are young, they tend to become that thing. And so it is in our community. Tell us how abused and forlorn we all are, and how wrong the school system is, and how hopeless it is to be black, and VOILA, we become forlorn, uneducated, and hopeless. You see?

And before you go off on all this support black business jive, I have owned many businesses and employed a whole lot of folks over the years from my community. I believe in business and hard work, and the freedom and dignity it brings to all who practice these. Its not an issue of escaping the bigger market around you however, THAT is not even possible.
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:
June, sorry, but I'm not getting all this the rule the exceptions stuff. Can you explain that a bit?

And yes, racism is NOT the cause of unemployment, nor the cause of crime, nor many of the other ills that mantras of rich black lawyers and activists have been trying to convince us of for so long. You see, if you tell someone something long enough, especially while they are young, they tend to become that thing. And so it is in our community. Tell us how abused and forlorn we all are, and how wrong the school system is, and how hopeless it is to be black, and VOILA, we become forlorn, uneducated, and hopeless. You see?

And before you go off on all this support black business jive, I have owned many businesses and employed a whole lot of folks over the years from my community. I believe in business and hard work, and the freedom and dignity it brings to all who practice these. Its not an issue of escaping the bigger market around you however, THAT is not even possible.
Sure Sgt. You're a regular Magic Johnson.

READ the BOOK Report!

Get the BLACK MAGIC!

And find the *CENTER*!
(CENTER OF THE WORLD!.... "You got to get a life!" - Jazzy B/Soul-II-Soul)
Exceptions or what happens to only a few via good fortune, extraordinary talent or was actually treated fairly because of their qualifications.

SGT said regarding exceptions....
quote:
Frankly, these days, it is ridiculous to consider racism outside the scope of black dominance in pro sports, number one television shows and movies, black stars abound everywhere, black presidential candidates, even Michael Jackson thrilled the white world for decades.


SGT said:
quote:
And there ARE celebrated black coaches, singers, actors, stars, musicians, idols, miss americas, politicians, religious leaders, secretary of states, and throughout EVERY facet of life we are there.


Rule or what is happening the most to the majority in the real world:

JuneBug said:
quote:
What does it matter to the black community if many white people with or without higher education, with or without criminal record are finding work and yet the black populace with or without higher education, with or without criminal record are not having similar success?

SGT, what does it matter to the black community how well Bush does if the fruits of his administration does not positively impact African Americans who are not getting similar job considerations.


quote:
Can you recognize that all of those examples are exceptions and not the average? Are the exceptions enough for you to ignore what is really happening in regards to racism to the avg black person?



There is a contrast of what is happening in the job market when you compare whites and blacks of similar backgrounds. As I said:..

quote:
In my opinion we work as a community to create our own job market by being biased in our spending habits.Because as it is in every society the majority hires those who looks and acts like them and also they except negative stereotypes as an excuse for their hiring and promotion practices. It's the real world and we must act accordingly.



The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.
quote:
Its not an issue of escaping the bigger market around you however, THAT is not even possible.
You are stuck on this ESCAPE thing aren't you?

It's not about "escaping" it's about enhancing, creating, thriving... Oh... I forgot your commentary is that "we survived". And since that's were you want to leave it then you "choose" to merely be an object or rather a mere sub-ject and not THE SUBJECT!

We'll count you and all your expertise out of the GRAND PROJECT! That's your choice. Sobeit!

... and since you insist... From the album ESCAPE!

From the bottom to the top,
the top to the bottom
Im gonna rock em,
while I still got em...

broscream (REWIND!!!)

Now the party didnt start till I walked in
And I probably wont leave until the thing ends
But in the mean time,
the in between time
If you work your thing,
then I'll work mine...

fro "BOOGIE, FUNK, BOOGIE!"
Soul II Soul!

Happy Face, a THUMPIN' BASS, For a LOVING/LOVELY RACE! brosmile
Frankly June, the world of sports, movies, television, stardom, politics, all of these are at the ZENITH in western culture, noone struggles to be 'unknown', unpopular, or 'off television' if you get my drift. Again, we are saturating all these arenas, far more than our 13% for sure, and none of you has explained why we can be so dominate and visible in the very segments and strata that carry such highly valued and popular rhealms, the 'top of the heap', if this is such a racist culture. Sorry, but that just don't mix.

Now, the 'average' black person is neither poor nor living in squalor. The 'average' black person is not unemployed, nor a common criminal. The 'average' black person does not have to shun sidewalks, hide behind trees, nor have to drink from black only fountains. So when you say 'average', its a throwback to those who live in the past, and see today as if it were still 1930. But its not. Reality is reality, open the eyes and SEE it.
quote:
"I" call them as "I" see them...
And WHO the F@CK are you?

F@ckin' BOO! From the F@CKIn' WHO???

DON'T NOBODY GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOU and WHAT YOU Think! T*TTY!

"TRUTH_WACKED"??? .... "TRUTH"???
Stooge, you are the PROP in PROPoganda!
False CORRELATIN' @%(#^&$((&(*&@#(&#$(&!!!U&)$! Big Grin

Get a F@CKin CLUE!
fro The BOOGIE can help you! If you BOOGIE want...

F@CK BUSH, F@CK CLINTON....
Damn, I guess that leaves you with very little to say?
"Do you think that blacks have the same opportunity to coach and manage teams as they do to play?"

Nope but neither does anyone else. A roster of 55 players and still just one head coach.

Seems some of the people here have been too busy reading about or remembering exceptions from the past, they never bothered to head down to their local businesses and see that what once were exceptions has now become the rule.

"What does it matter to the black community if many white people with or without higher education, with or without criminal record are finding work and yet the black populace with or without higher education, with or without criminal record are not having similar success?"

It should matter to the black community, since listening to people whine about something like that would just give every hardworking black person a headache, and serves only to undermine the success they are having. Since anyone that wants to can find a job. White, black, retarded, or a felon.
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:
no, only 'truth-whacked'. I call them as I see them, no matter who does or doesn't like it.


truth? we all have a piece of that. but the fuzzy purport of employment gains under bush's administration is hogwash, and you know it. also, if the numbers were solid, where's the windfall for the 32 plus state budgets that have pared their projected revenue intake since 2000?

besides, can you provide any other source other than dol (headed by gimpy chao) to bolster your claim and that of this administration? if so, why has greenspan remained so cautious?

and what does the dnc have to do with anything? you simply yielded to a fflaw in your claim there.

"There are two ways of exerting one's strength: one is pushing down, the other is pulling up."
~ Booker T Washington


[This message was edited by afro_geek on December 22, 2003 at 07:56 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by injury:
anyone that wants to can find a job. White, black, retarded, or a felon...
RELATIVE... CONTEXT... DO THE MATH, Check the stats, plenty of studies done!

If you don't won't to hear the "WHINING" then why is your WHITE A$$ Up In Here In the FIRST PLACE?

Another FALSE CORRELATIN' B@tc~!
quote:
Everybody has asked the question...
"What shall we do with the Negro?"
I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us!
Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us.
Do nothing with us!

- Frederick Douglas
You probably like that huh?
But somehow you can seem to read plain F@CKin' ENGLISH!

Do NOTHING with us!
- aka TAKE YOUR A$$ ON! ... and ...
Never DO NOTHING again when it comes to US!
(That means NOTHING! NO posting on this site... NOTHING!) Big Grin

Also... Flip The Coin!
quote:
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the roar of its many waters...

"Agitate, agitate, agitate!!".

- Frederick Douglas
Call it WHINE if you want. When you get the "H" out! Our WINE will be fine in time!

[This message was edited by Nmaginate on December 19, 2003 at 01:41 PM.]
"plenty of studies done"
I have yet to see one done in any recent timeframe that couldn't be dismissed by a third grader due to the obvious bias they employ.

But why would you bother to dig into them, if on the surface they say what you agree with, well then that must make it right? Thus your ignorance is confirmed.
We "whine" and we are "ignorant"...
So why are you here?
What would make you want to be in our
company if what you say is true?

And, you really shouldn't talk about Third Grade and what people should be able to figure out... And bias?? And you dare talk about only accepting things one agrees with!!!
Silly Rabbit !!
What do the HELL you think you do? Confused
quote:
"What does it matter to the black community if many white people with or without higher education, with or without criminal record are finding work and yet the black populace with or without higher education, with or without criminal record are not having similar success?" - HIM

It should matter to the black community... YOU
What'w the matter?
You don't like it when someone tells you and yours that YOU don't matter?

Be the non-entity you are! Embrace it!
You'll feel better once you stop whining and coming here for acceptance.

Go back to your PW Hole (ProtestWarrior.com)...
So damn... too damn Predictable!!
It appears the "NoahTheAfrican" mentality made a bunch of you p@ssies want to ban him.
That right! We know what the *P* really stands for!

rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

You guys over there have about as much logic as S)-DAMN INSANE has power!

rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

You guys can't even hold the logic-jock of one of Saddam's headlice!!

rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

I guess you're here to "REHABILITATE" us, huh?

rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

Okay! As long as we can Re-hab with RUSH!

rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

"I was taking prescription medicine for a serious condition"


[This message was edited by Nmaginate on December 19, 2003 at 02:53 PM.]
"So why are you here?"
Open invitation

"And bias?? And you dare talk about only accepting things one agrees with!!!"
You seem to have trouble grasping how bias was used in context...thanks to our friends at dictionary.com I present to you
-A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.

-A statistical sampling or testing error caused by systematically favoring some outcomes over others.

As far as your attempted jab that I have in some way shown bias, proof please. Instead of showing me a non biased report of widespread racial bias in hiring...I get "why are you here?" and an inference to me being bias. So you have some preconcieved notion that if someone disagrees with you, they were biased in the first place? It couldn't be perhaps you were wrong, perhaps the other side doesn't have some secret fact that you have? They must be biased right?

"What'w the matter?
You don't like it when someone tells you and yours that YOU don't matter?"
Noone said I don't matter, hrmmm you like to infer a lot don't you.
YOU DON'T MATTER!!

Now, that we have that settled...
PW and the PW All-Stars (not to be confused with the Three Stooges... why would I ever think Mo, Larry, Curl or the fill-in guy of the Month would ever be that dumb.)

BIAS... proof??
Please, why in the world do you think I would waste my time trying to debate with you about what my reality is and what Black people experience.

Your opinion when it comes to that, DOESN'T MATTER!!
What I know to be true is not debateable!

Further, you challenged what I said about "STUDIES"... The ball is in your court to prove your claims about them! And, the impetus of the studies like art... reflects "life"/reality...

But you probably think the impetus for them have something to do with a CONspiracy! huh?
Yeah!!! The Liberals are out the do us all in!!! Yeah!!! ... Really... Roll Eyes
(BEWARE... AROUND EVERY COUNTER LURKS...
*A LIBERAL*)
rotflmao

Well, F@ck you and the "liberals"...
What and they say... (you got it) DON'T MATTER!

"secret fact"???
rotflmao
Some more CONspiracy Theories huh?

"WRONG".... and "RIGHT"....
Don't get "right" CONfused with "RIGHT"-wing Bub! Back to your PW Hole! Go back and lick your wounds like The Patriot and JON-a$$ did early this year.

The "P" is for..... ???
quote:
So you have some preconcieved notion that if someone disagrees with you, they were biased in the first place? It couldn't be perhaps you were wrong, perhaps the other side doesn't have some secret fact that you have? They must be biased right?

DAMN!!!

I guess all you PW guys got the same, form-letter MEMO. The same old broke logic, same old broke aSSumptions, same old aSSinine aSSertions. "Maybe you are wrong!"

Well... (no offense to anyone else intended)
"Could it be you are GAY??" and that's why you think like you do?Confused

Could it be that you get this ... shhhhhhh!!! (secret) knowledge/facts from some Cult-For-Dumbies where you must have picked up what you think amounts to anything worth knowing...
    REPEAT AFTER ME:

    "I"... 'I'
    "STATE YOUR NAME"... 'STATE YOUR NAME'
Yeah, somebody must have had a given all you guys the same script the rough-draft ear marked for the Big Lots of Hollywood!

"It couldn't be perhaps you were wrong, perhaps the other side doesn't have some secret fact that you have?"

You know... that actually sounds about right...
"the other side doesn't have...fact(s)... we have!" (not to mention experience and fairy tale beliefs...

Silly Rabbit !!
"What I know to be true is not debateable!"
Should say...percieve to be true is debatable.

"why in the world do you think I would waste my time trying to debate with you about what my reality is and what Black people experience."

So you are saying that you have been wronged so viscously yet it's not worth even mentioning? True not being black I won't ever know internally what it "feels" like to be black. However not being blind, I can see when injustices are done. Being human I do know what it's like to be discriminated against. Noone has a monopoly on injustice.

Your lack of bringing anything logical to the table, refusal to provide fact, or even anecdotal example just shows you are angry, not that you've been viscously wronged.

"Further, you challenged what I said about "STUDIES"... The ball is in your court to prove your claims about them!"

You asserted your feelings were proven in some studies you read, I provided a common thought on studies in polls. In fact it was a challenge for you to produce the studies you've read to see if in fact they are unbiased....still waiting. Or perhaps you realize that the sampling method behind them was flawed in the first place so you won't bring them to the table?

"But you probably think the impetus for them have something to do with a CONspiracy!"
Conspiracy? Nope, actually juding from what I've read to this point the one wearing the tin foil hat is most likely you. The fact that studies are taken by political groups (on all sides) with their own agendas, would be evidence enough to be cautious before taking the results to be fact.

"Could it be you are GAY?? and that's why you think like you do?"
So a personal insolt on ones sexuality (of course we've seen already how you like to infer things on people revealing your ignorance), feeling a little insecure about the way the debate is going are we? Could it be I think the way I do because my reality is based on...reality. Not something I've read somewhere, but rather things that are experienced and seen first hand? Because I don't feed on the scraps of "knowledge" from others without at least a bit of thought behind it? Because in this world, what is said and what is done rarely match up?

You do realize nmaginate, that words have more than one meaning? Once again I take you to the dictionary.
Secret - Not expressed; inward

The one blathering on about conspiracies is you and only you.

"You know... that actually sounds about right...
"the other side doesn't have...fact(s)... we have!" "
True, so why so much bitterness expressed by you in the face of what would amount to nothing more than ignorance, that is a problem easily remedied.

I will say as a person who "doesn't matter", it is awfully nice of you to reply to every one of my posts with two of yours...sign of putting some extra thought into someone that doesn't matter, perhaps? If I truly didn't matter why bother replying at all?
quote:
"What I know to be true is not debateable!"
Should say...percieve to be true is debatable.

"why in the world do you think I would waste my time trying to debate with you about what my reality is and what Black people experience."

So you are saying that you have been wronged so viscously yet it's not worth even mentioning? True not being black I won't ever know internally what it "feels" like to be black. However not being blind, I can see when injustices are done. Being human I do know what it's like to be discriminated against. Noone has a monopoly on injustice.

Your lack of bringing anything logical to the table, refusal to provide fact, or even anecdotal example just shows you are angry, not that you've been viscously wronged.

What part of:
    Please, why in the world do you think I would waste my time trying to debate with you about what my reality is and what Black people experience.

    Your opinion when it comes to that, DOESN'T MATTER!!
    What I know to be true is not debateable!
... DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?


I have and will not even begin to attempt to "bringing anything logical", factual or anecdotal "to the table" strictly because YOU (and what you think) DOESN'T MATTER!

Further, you presume I have something I need to prove to you. That assumes you are important if not more intelligent than I am for me to have to "provide" proof or facts to you.
You are just a little self-absorbed, huh? Wink

Rumours of your Self-Importance have been greatly exaggerated! Big Grin

sleep sleep sleep

Oops! Sorry! I just get bored with the same ole lame perspectives. You've heard one you've heard 'em all!

"just shows you are angry"
"why so much bitterness expressed by you"
"If I [don't] matter why bother replying...?"
Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

The truth is, I have no desire to deal with your ARROGANCE. Or should I say:
Your attempt to assert that what you percieve to be true - about the Black experience, condition, and reality - is "truer" than what Blacks, myself included, "perceive" to be true about their own experience, condition, and reality.


Yeah! Only you, in all your Whiteness, are smart enough to interpret reality. Us poor little Black folks are too emotional (angry, bitter) to be rational enough to know what's going on in our own lives. Thank God for smart White folk like you or we would be lost! Roll Eyes

@#%^#@%^#$&^%&^#%(*!!!

Sorry, this isn't The White Supremacy Network that ProtestWarrior.com is. No one here (and I certainly don't) think that your White Opinion, blind or not, is in anyway "more" accurate than the consensus of what Blacks think of their own reality. You are no more objective, rational, logical, etc.... In fact, it goes without saying (as far as I'm concerned) that you are heavily biased.

What else would bring you here via a topic on PW entitled: "What the Left has done to Black people." Confused

Now, considering that, Why would you expect for me to Dignify your quest for a debate? A debate about what? A debate for you to try to further aSSert that you know more about Black people than they know or will admit about themselves?

Those days are over, my friend!
No matter how much you think you appear differently, your views follow along in a well documented sordid and infamous Ideological Tradition. Same elements, same assertions, same thrust, same conclusions...

You made the following aSSertion, aSSerting your unsolicited, moralistic, Supremist oriented opinion stating what we "SHOULD" do/think as if it would behoove us to follow your advice.... I guess because we "SHOULD" know that YOU "Knows Best":
    It should matter to the black community, since listening to people whine about something like that would just give every hardworking black person a headache, and serves only to undermine the success they are having. Since anyone that wants to can find a job. White, black, retarded, or a felon.
Your aSSertion about 'causes for HEADACHEs' notwithstanding... It's on you to "prove" the aSSertion I highlighted.

Again, the ball is in your court!
Now, YOU PROVE THAT TO ME!

[This message was edited by Nmaginate on December 22, 2003 at 11:33 AM.]
"I have and will not even begin to attempt to "bringing anything logical", factual or anecdotal "to the table" "
Therefore your rants are meaningless, and just tyraids brought on by the fact I had the nerve to post something contradictory to you, me a mere white man trying to have a civil discourse with a black man...the nerve of me? Roll Eyes

"Further, you presume I have something I need to prove to you."
Not really, but I'm getting there because you continue to rant.

"Only you, in all your Whiteness, are smart enough to interpret reality. Us poor little Black folks are too emotional (angry, bitter) to be rational enough to know what's going on in our own lives."
Nice try, but you keep inferring things that are not said or thought. I mean really, twisting something directed at another idividual to be directed at an entire race is just race baiting, and a sign that you just spout anger and no real substance. But once again you show your perceptions have no basis in reality...you percieve I'm some kind of white supremist, you percieve to know what my line of thought isbased on others before me. You are wrapped up in taking comments pointed at you, an induhvidual, from me, an induhvidual. You are the angry bitter one, not your race.

If you want to attack me, attack me on what is said in the text, not what you want to twist it around to mean.

"The truth is, I have no desire to deal with your ARROGANCE"
Yet you continue...maybe it's not arrogance you percieve that seems to keep drawing you back. Maybe it's that you recognize I have a point, and am just just some evil white devil trying to keep a boot on your neck?

"Sorry, this isn't The White Supremacy Network that ProtestWarrior.com is."
It is truley sad that you are so ill-informed.

"What else would bring you here via a topic on PW entitled: "What the Left has done to Black people." "
Read the thread genius. The point of that thread was discussing the wrongs (or what we at PW percieve as wrongs) done to black people by what today is known in the media as the left. The media has twisted left and liberal and right and conservative to be synonymous with Democrat(left) or republican(right) which would explain why left (instead of democrat) is in the title. Organizations started by at least one time democrats (like the KKK for example), segragation in the south by what were largely democrat politicans, are now listed as right wing (which while accurate, they leave off the democrat), while introducing and labeling the republicans right wingers and democrats left wingers for the duration of the story, broadcast etc, clearly misleading people.

"A debate for you to try to further aSSert that you know more about Black people than they know or will admit about themselves?"
I never asserted such a thing, in fact I stated I couldn't know what it felt like to be black. I have no clue what it's like to read the slave journals from a black persons perspective. However, I do know what it feels like to have racial slurs thrown at me, to be the only guy of a different color at a party, hell living in a neighborhood. As I stated before, noone holds a monopoly on injustice.

"Since anyone that wants to can find a job. White, black, retarded, or a felon."

Well as far as proof white people can get a job, well I don't thaink that needs to be proven. Black people get jobs in every sector, denying that shows you haven't been outside in a long time, whether or not they get them due to affirmative action programs or to the fact most people today don't give a damn about your skincolor just whether you are qualified to do the job nowdays, I don't think we can ever truly know. Felons get jobs from their parole officers on release, granted after that, they are usually limited to manufacturing, warehouse, and construction type jobs but what do you expect they are felons. As far as mentally handicapped I've yet to walk into a grocery store or a Wal Mart and not seen one there working, there are also companies that specialize in only the hiring of handicapped individuals for manufacturing and packaging (notice the packaging on a lot of the bookshelfs and desks that are sold today).

By and large, the problem with employment today isn't a racial problem (yes there are some racist hiring managers and companies out there on all sides, but they have been eroded to a minority), it's a lazy problem and a major attitude problem (there are a plethora of I'm owed something, white lazy asses) and it seems to inflict generations of people. People that think something should be handed to them, that somehow everyone should start out on top, the world doesn't work that way no matter who you are, for 99% of the population.

Everything that happens in life is not neccessarily done on the basis of race. The fact that you seem to want to lump white people in one thought line shows perhaps you don't like thinking on people as individuals? Perhaps you yourself are suffering from the same mentality that ignorant people had of your race?
quote:
Originally posted by injury:
"I have and will not even begin to attempt to "bringing anything logical", factual or anecdotal "to the table" "
Therefore your rants are meaningless, and just tyraids brought on by the fact I had the nerve to post something contradictory to you, me a mere white man trying to have a civil discourse with a black man...the nerve of me? Roll Eyes

"Further, you presume I have something I need to prove to you."
Not really, but I'm getting there because you continue to rant.

"Only you, in all your Whiteness, are smart enough to interpret reality. Us poor little Black folks are too emotional (angry, bitter) to be rational enough to know what's going on in our own lives."
Nice try, but you keep inferring things that are not said or thought. I mean really, twisting something directed at another idividual to be directed at an entire race is just race baiting, and a sign that you just spout anger and no real substance. But once again you show your perceptions have no basis in reality...you percieve I'm some kind of white supremist, you percieve to know what my line of thought isbased on others before me. You are wrapped up in taking comments pointed at you, an induhvidual, from me, an induhvidual. You are the angry bitter one, not your race.

If you want to attack me, attack me on what is said in the text, not what you want to twist it around to mean.

"The truth is, I have no desire to deal with your ARROGANCE"
Yet you continue...maybe it's not arrogance you percieve that seems to keep drawing you back. Maybe it's that you recognize I have a point, and am just just some evil white devil trying to keep a boot on your neck?

"Sorry, this isn't The White Supremacy Network that ProtestWarrior.com is."
It is truley sad that you are so ill-informed.

"What else would bring you here via a topic on PW entitled: "What the Left has done to Black people." "
Read the thread genius. The point of that thread was discussing the wrongs (or what we at PW percieve as wrongs) done to black people by what today is known in the media as the left. The media has twisted left and liberal and right and conservative to be synonymous with Democrat(left) or republican(right) which would explain why left (instead of democrat) is in the title. Organizations started by at least one time democrats (like the KKK for example), segragation in the south by what were largely democrat politicans, are now listed as right wing (which while accurate, they leave off the democrat), while introducing and labeling the republicans right wingers and democrats left wingers for the duration of the story, broadcast etc, clearly misleading people.

"A debate for you to try to further aSSert that you know more about Black people than they know or will admit about themselves?"
I never asserted such a thing, in fact I stated I couldn't know what it felt like to be black. I have no clue what it's like to read the slave journals from a black persons perspective. However, I do know what it feels like to have racial slurs thrown at me, to be the only guy of a different color at a party, hell living in a neighborhood. As I stated before, noone holds a monopoly on injustice.

"Since anyone that wants to can find a job. White, black, retarded, or a felon."

Well as far as proof white people can get a job, well I don't thaink that needs to be proven. Black people get jobs in every sector, denying that shows you haven't been outside in a long time, whether or not they get them due to affirmative action programs or to the fact most people today don't give a damn about your skincolor just whether you are qualified to do the job nowdays, I don't think we can ever truly know. Felons get jobs from their parole officers on release, granted after that, they are usually limited to manufacturing, warehouse, and construction type jobs but what do you expect they are felons. As far as mentally handicapped I've yet to walk into a grocery store or a Wal Mart and not seen one there working, there are also companies that specialize in only the hiring of handicapped individuals for manufacturing and packaging (notice the packaging on a lot of the bookshelfs and desks that are sold today).

By and large, the problem with employment today isn't a racial problem (yes there are some racist hiring managers and companies out there on all sides, but they have been eroded to a minority), it's a lazy problem and a major attitude problem (there are a plethora of I'm owed something, white lazy asses) and it seems to inflict generations of people. People that think something should be handed to them, that somehow everyone should start out on top, the world doesn't work that way no matter who you are, for 99% of the population.

Everything that happens in life is not neccessarily done on the basis of race. The fact that you seem to want to lump white people in one thought line shows perhaps you don't like thinking on people as individuals? Perhaps you yourself are suffering from the same mentality that ignorant people had of your race?
And??? YOur PoInT!?? Roll Eyes

You are working under some illusion that I'm soliciting your opinion. Repeatedly, I have told you I AM NOT! What are you going on about?
Why do you think you need to explain or elaborate about?

Why do you think your interpretation of things is of any consequences let alone any relevance to me or anyone here?

THE RUMOURS of your SELF-IMPORTANCE have been greatly OVER-exaggerated!
"By and large, the problem with employment today isn't a racial problem..."

"By and large" what makes you think someone asked you or needs your explanation?

What don't you get about it?
Your interpretations, rationalizations, opinions, etc. are of no consequence. They are irrelevant. They are no unlike much that has been offered, witnessed or heard of before.

You offer nothing new here.
Frankly, I'm tired of the same ole BS from people who have expressed the same opinions you do with much of the same bias.

HINT: Next time don't come in here talking with loaded terms like "whining" and "hardworking"... They give away and hint at untenable presumptions you have.

Don't Let The Door Knob Hit Ya!

[This message was edited by Nmaginate on December 22, 2003 at 12:57 PM.]
Yes it makes it easier to ignore truth, by stating your own self importance, doesn't it?

"You are working under some illusion that I'm soliciting your opinion. Repeatedly, I have told you I AM NOT!"
Yet you keep putting up questions...why would that be.

"By and large" what makes you think someone asked you or needs your explanation?"
Discussion forum ..this topic is employment
, you are quite the rocket scientist aren't you. Or is this supposed to be more of a oneway conversation for you to ramble on to a mute audience, with the hopes that while they don't speak you continue to aSSert that you are correct?

"Your interpretations, rationalizations, opinions, etc. are of no consequence."
They are as much of a consequence as yours are. Granted maybe not to you yourself, but then again thats all you ever speak for, although you do seem to get some kind of complex thinking you are speaking for multitudes of people.

"Frankly, I'm tired of the same ole BS from people who have expressed the same opinions you do with much of the same bias. "
If you are tired then go to sleep, there is no bias here, besides the one in which you lump people different than yourself as somehow being against you.

"HINT: Next time don't come in here talking with loaded terms like "whining" and "hardworking"... They give away and hint at untenable presumptions you have."
that statement and your other comments just shows that you must reside in the former quoted word and not the latter.

"Don't Let The Door Knob Hit Ya!"
Am I going some where?
Note: This is my last post to you.
quote:
"HINT: Next time don't come in here talking with loaded terms like "whining" and "hardworking"... They give away and hint at untenable presumptions you have."
that statement and your other comments just shows that you must reside in the former quoted word and not the latter.

Talk about INFERENCES and ASSUMPTIONS...

Just because you would like something to be a certain way.... so that you can grasp reality a little better, my little friend, just understand that there is no correlation to what you ASSume (like so many others whether PW All-Stars or not).

You have failed to say anything different yet. You can read a script pretty well. You should be proud of yourself! Big Grin

Perhaps you don't won't the title but your whole posture and presumption is one of White Supremacy.

Hint: I'm not talking about David DUke!
- i.e. you think your White opinion about things that pertain to Black people is "right" (aka "superior) most of which is based on the presumption that you are somehow more rational(e) and logical in reaching the conclusions that you do.

ANd I'm sure you would say that has "nothing to do with race"... Roll Eyes


DON'T LET THE DOOR KNOB HIT YA!
" can you provide any other source other than dol (headed by gimpy chao) to bolster your claim and that of this administration? if so, why has greenspan remained so cautious? "

Yes Afrogeek, already have actually. The congressional budget office figures are what BOTH houses of congress use and work off of. Of course, you've been lied to by those who say 3 million jobs were 'lost', since NOWHERE can you find that verifiable statistic, and thats the point here. I've checked the CBO's and Wall streets numbers as well, and nowhere does it say more people were working then than now.

ALL report that:
The employed civilian labor force had 135,999,000 workers during the early days of the recession in January 2001 when Bill Clinton left office. The employed civilian labor force at the end of last month, with the recession long over, was 138,603,000. Those raw numbers show 2.6 million MORE jobs now.



So, when you say "employment gains under bush's administration is hogwash", you should first take a step back and consider that the bigger point here is that there never were 3 million lost in the first place, the economy has steadily been growing, rather than strinking. Can't argue with facts, thats just life. If we have more jobs now than then, well what more is there to say.

Greenspan is cautious when it comes to 'inflation' resulting from the growing money supply, not deflation. And as most of us know, a large number of states had OVER-budgeted, nothing new, just as the federal government had to do. State overspending is a real problem, just as everywhere else, and its the responsibility of the state to not spend too much, or spend what it doesn't have. California is a great example of what happens to a state run amuk with spending.

Don't know anything about any 'windfall', what is that all about? Why would states deserve a 'windfall' for overspending?

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