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Now, I've been following the bashing of the economy as much as anyone, and to be honest I've known for a long time there were never any 3 million jobs lost under Bush, since new unemployment conpensation claims topped out at about 800,000 new claims net, at the height of the so-called recession. So I've known for a while that the majority of those who lost jobs simply went on to new jobs, as most people usually do.

Well, here are the facts and figures for each of us to examine.

Our economy is booming at historic levels. Yet myths of a "jobless" recovery are being pushed by politicians hoping to reap votes from your misery. Before you buy into any of the dire job loss statistics reported by people running for president or their willing accomplices, check out the Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics.

News Releases: Unemployment Figures Then and Now...
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
http://www.bls.gov/bls/newsrels.htm
(ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.02022001.news)

The employed civilian labor force had 135,999,000 workers during the early days of the recession in January 2001 when Bill Clinton left office. The employed civilian labor force at the end of last month, with the recession long over, was 138,603,000. Those raw numbers show 2.6 million MORE jobs now.

So you can see why I distrust the figures of those Democrats with a political motive for painting job loss as awful as possible, who make wild claims of 2.3 to 3.7 to 475 billion jobs lost under Bush. Besides, common sense tells us that some people who "lose" jobs actually go out and get new ones - much to the DNC's dismay.

Now, Bill Clinton left us with 135,999,000 jobs. Today there are 138,603,000 jobs. Do the math folks, its a real eye-opener.
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Hello Sergeant,

Indeed, President George Bush has been a very good President, so much so, that a good possibility exists, that George Bush will be re-elected. Why so many Black people condemn George Bush is beyond me, because he has done nothing to disrespect Black people.

Condoleeza Rice has done nothing to betray Black people. From the reaction of quite a few people on this board to disrespect Condoleeza Rice, the reader would think that those who make such statements, picture Condoleeza Rice as the greatest traitor to the Black community who ever walked.

On the other hand many Democratic leaders who have truly disrespected, cheated, deceived, and/or criminally violated the Black community, are given atta boys and girls beyond belief.

.....but Oh well, again more so than not, far too many Black people, especially as it relates to the well connected, the so called university educated, that disgraceful Black middle class, condemn those worthy of praise, and honor the truly disgraceful, sleazy, criminal, illegal immigrant, traitor, etc.

.....and the days are numbered for the many liberal Democrats of deceit who have misused tax payer's dollars to disregard the rights of the law abiding men, women, or children. The Republican Party more so than the Democratic Party, will cut funding or take action to criminally prosecute those who choose to be so un-American, criminal, sleazy, treasonous, etc.


,,,yet one more example to which Black people honor the sleazy, a liar, a fraudulent Dr. Martin Luther King, whose real name is Michael King, to which the many unsung heroes of Black America, who are truly worth honoring continue to go un-noticed or they are disrespected!

....Perhaps this is key reason as to why the Black community continues to be the most poverty stricken, deadly, clinging on to life community in the U.S. Can't support or defend perversion, treason, disgraceful or unethical activity, and expect to get ahead in the great United States of America, which continues to be the greatest, most respected, most ethical, most humane, nation on the planet.

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on December 15, 2003 at 08:31 AM.]
Yep, there's been this huge influx of jobs in the economy. We've replaced software designers with Starbuck servers. But a serious question is would YOU want any of them? Can anyone support a family with them?

The majority of the jobs created are minimum wage, part-time positions that usually have something to do with asking, "Do you want fries with that?"

It's shameful that culture, even in the face of all the scandals, encourages corporate execs to lay-off thousands of employees and then give themselves huge bonuses, that more than surpass any cost savings for the lay-offs. I realize that this is not the fault of the Bush administration, per se. But, one can't argue that this administration has certainly set the tone.
Yep,


with black unemployment in double digits and twice as high as white unemployment, I can see negroes lauding W. The same president who specifically spoke out against affirmative action in college admissions and obviously business/gov't contracting. You negroes(Lofton and Sgt) are not even bothered by the fact that blacks are not even making any of your tax money as others are stealing and overcharging the gov't and keeping all of the work to themselves. Yes Kweli, the jobs are all minimum wage service industry jobs as the manufacturing and even technical jobs are being farmed out elsewhere. And then you wonder why urban areas are high-crime? the direct result of a lack of jobs and educational opportunities. If that were not the case, you would find the the same behavior in middle and upper-class black communities. sorry to disappoint ya'll but it does not work like that. I really think some blacks are underacheivers, do not have any plans to get off of their lazy azzes and accomplish anything more, so they would like to see other motivated blacks in their same "boat" so they can feel better about themselves........i cannot think of any other reason to always work counter to the progress of your people. i personally would like others to share in the success that i have enjoyed, made possible because of the efforts of other blacks before me.......
Lofton posted,

Condoleeza Rice has done nothing to betray Black people. From the reaction of quite a few people on this board to disrespect Condoleeza Rice, the reader would think that those who make such statements, picture Condoleeza Rice as the greatest traitor to the Black community who ever walked.



** Condi is a delusional fool sometimes which has nothing to do with how she performs professionally and academically. She has eluded to the civil rights movement maybe not being necessary based on being allowed to change in a white dressing room as a little girl. All of that such as the dogs, hoses and beatings and her father having to sit outside with a rifle with the other men so the klan wouldn't burn them down at night and her girlfriends getting killed by klan bombings just shows how much house negroes will deny their own reality to be in good graces with massa. Even to this day, that strange slave/massa relationship carries on..
"The employed civilian labor force had 135,999,000 workers during the early days of the recession in January 2001 when Bill Clinton left office. The employed civilian labor force at the end of last month, with the recession long over, was 138,603,000. Those raw numbers show 2.6 million MORE jobs now. "

That's a bit misleading, sarge. For starters, there's quite a difference between job growth and job demand. The job market aspect of a recession does not require that the number of jobs available drop, but that the number of available jobs grow more slowly that the number of people looking for work. So to say that there's no problem in the job market if there were 2.6 million more jobs created belies the fact that to maintain our employment rate of the Clinton years, we would have needed upwards of 4 million new jobs just to keep up.

Besides which, under Clinton (and I'm not saying democrats can take all the credit for this) the unemployment rate peaked at only 4.2% and up to 6 million people were out of work (from your bls sources). Now we are at 5.9% unemployment and 8.7 million are out of work, and that's after the 2.6 million extra jobs. That's a net loss of 2.7 million, because that's how many more people are out of work now due to lackluster job growth. Basically, what increases we have seen were not high enough to maintain our previous levels of growth, and that's one of the hallmarks of a recession. You won't find too many economists who would dispute that it was a recession at this late date.
I posted earlier:

Yes Kweli, the jobs are all minimum wage service industry jobs as the manufacturing and even technical jobs are being farmed out elsewhere.


**Below is just a tip of the iceberg...I'm just posting it to support my statement, a practice many need to learn in here.

IBM to Export Highly Paid Jobs to India, China
Mon Dec 15,12:14 AM ET


In one of the largest moves to "offshore" highly paid U.S. software jobs, International Business Machines Corp. (NYSE:IBM - News) has told its managers to plan on moving the work of as many as 4,730 programmers to India, China and elsewhere, Monday's Wall Street Journal reported.

The unannounced plan, outlined in company documents viewed by The Wall Street Journal, would replace thousands of workers at IBM facilities in Southbury, Conn., Poughkeepsie, N.Y., Raleigh, N.C., Dallas, Boulder, Colo., and elsewhere in the U.S.Already, the managers have been told, IBM has hired 500 engineers in India to take on some of the work that will be moved.


IBM calls its plan, first presented internally to some midlevel managers in October, "Global Sourcing." It involves people in its Application Management Services group, a part of IBM's giant global-services operations, which comprise more than half IBM's 315,000 employees.


IBM's plan, still under development, will take place over a number of months in stages. About 947 people are scheduled to be notified during the first half of the coming year that their work will be handled overseas in the future. It isn't yet clear how many of the other 3,700 jobs identified as "potential to move offshore" in the IBM documents will move next year or some time later.


However, the fate of some of the targeted jobs isn't certain: IBM managers still haven't figured out whether all of the work the jobs represent can be performed just as well abroad. The jobs involve updating and improving software for IBM's own business operations.


Some workers are scheduled to be informed of the plan for their jobs by the end of January. After that they will be expected to train an overseas replacement worker in the U.S. for several weeks. The IBM workers marked for replacement have 60 days to find another job inside the company, likely to be a difficult task at a time when IBM is holding down hiring.


IBM declined to comment on what it called "internal presentations."


Wall Street Journal Staff Reporters William M. Bulkeley and Peter Fritsch contributed to this article.
This is for Lofton and Sgt who like to sing that "how gud we's gots it" tune.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unemployment Among Latinos, Blacks Remains High
Despite the recent pronouncements in the media and by President Bush that the economy is on the road to recovery, Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) Chair Elijah E. Cummings, D-Md., said unemployment among Latinos and African American remains in the double digits.

"While it is welcome news that some Americans are finding work, these new numbers are disappointing when one considers the record growth in the gross domestic product recently announced by the U.S. Department of Commerce," said Cummings in a written statement. The job report also indicates that while the African-American unemployment rate fell to 10.1 percent in November, down from 10.9 in October, the Latino unemployment rose to 7.4 percent, up from 5.8 percent during the same period.

Overall, the economy is showing signs of a recovery, and there is reason for optimism Bush said in his weekly radio address on Saturday. "The American economy continues on a solid path of recovery. With strong sales and improving profits, companies will continue to hire new workers in the coming year."

According to figures released by the U.S. Department of Labor, as of November, the national unemployment rate stands at 5.9 percent, with the economy creating 57,000 new jobs. In addition, 328,000 jobs have been added over the last four months – the most robust four-month job growth record in nearly three years.

Still, Cummings said with so many Americans out of work, there isn't much to celebrate. "When we consider that over 2 million Americans have been unemployed for more than six months, and that about 3 million Americans have lost their jobs since January 2001, and close to 9 million Americans will wake up tomorrow morning without a job, now is not the time to celebrate or pat ourselves on the back."
"Lofton and Sgt who like to sing that "how gud we's gots it" tune." by Kevin41

.......and this is for those who may not know but need to know, the Kevin41's input don't count for anything, because such information is a misrepresentation of the reality of it.

Well,

Unemployment has always been high in the Black community. It was high during the Clinton, Nixon, LBJ, Reagon, Bush, administrations, etc., etc.

Besides, the amount of money given to the many jackleg poverty pimping Black preachers in our own community alone, would provide the funding for numerous business opportunities to lower the unemployment rate in our own community.

There is really no excuse for the level of unemployment in the Black community considering the reality of what truly goes on, with regard to blatant sleaze, wastefulness, gross incompetence, greed beyond belief, etc., on the part of our own preachers, elected officials, the Black middle class, etc.

...and our Black elected leadership, in deceitful many times using false pretenses to hold elected office, Congressional Black Caucus, hold policy making positions, which make it possible for numerous business opportunities should these individuals exercise the power vested in any elected office holder to serve the people, and not special or foreign interests. Civil lawsuit for damages alone, would bring in an enormous amount of economic resources to provide a much needed economic base in the Black community.

The many atrocities perpetrated by the illegal and unwarranted actions of police officers, other government employees, etc., against the truly innocent of Black America, are worth dollars signs in the U.S., as applied to using the court system for redress,......

......but Oh Well......... this very deceitful bunch of no good Black elected officials choose to play games, look out for their personal friends, or paint the picture that is all Caucasian America's fault that numerous Black men and women fill the unemployment lines, as it pertains to those who have not given up, while they themselves bend over backwards to serve every other community but the Black community.

Unlike Condoleeza Rice, who is employee of the President George Bush Administration, the elected leadership of the CBC have the power and freedom to make things happen.

Elected officials are bound by law and sworn in under oath to serve the people of the communities within the jurisdictions to which they hold elected office. Instead of making things happen, to improve the quality of life within the inner-city, and/or within the jurisdiction sworn under oath to serve, our own Black elected leadership and/or many of the so-called Black middle class, choose to promote social welfare, the destruction of the traditional Black family unit, and/or penal incarceration for profit, so that they can send their kids to Caucasian run private schools, purchase property in an exclusive affluent Caucasian community, buy luxury vehicles, etc.

I'm sure that sergeant and/or those who truly look at the reality, would have an entirely different view, than a Kevin41, and/or the rest of the blame Caucasian America, the Republican Party, or the Bush Administration, etc., for demise of the Black community, be it employment issues or otherwise.

Those who need to get off their tailbone, because they are truly lazy, are in fact our own elected leadership, and the Black middleclass, who continue to feed the Black community all this garbage, that the dismal conditions that exist in the Black community are a result of "Racist Caucasians, the Republicans, etc., which is very far from the reality of it. Our own Black elected leadership, and/or the Democratic Party have been large and in charge of the Black community for well over thirty years, to which high unemployment is not some new found revelation as it pertains to the unemployed, the disenfranchised, the unrepresented, the sick, the elderly, the disabled, the homeless, heads of households, etc.

___________________________________________

Inspectors Rebuke King/Drew
Report says nurses are lax in giving basic care, accuses county of failing to fix problems.
By Charles Ornstein and Tracy Weber
Times Staff Writers

December 9, 2003

Government health inspectors have delivered a harsh broadside to Martin Luther King Jr./Drew Medical Center, saying that its nurses shirk basic patient care, doctors allow known problems to fester and county officials provide poor oversight.

The findings, outlined Monday in a memo by Los Angeles County's health chief to the Board of Supervisors, stem from the most far-reaching investigation of the hospital in years, extending well beyond its ongoing troubles with its physician training programs. If uncorrected, the violations could lead to the loss of federal funding, although such a move would be unusual.

Acting on behalf of the federal government, state inspectors delivered their preliminary findings to local health officials Friday after a four-day surprise visit. Their inspection was triggered by a state inquiry into the recent deaths of two King/Drew patients, both of whom deteriorated undetected despite being connected to cardiac monitors. The U.S. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services will issue a formal report on the latest review as early as next month.

With these findings, King/Drew is under attack by agencies from the local to the national levels. In recent months, an accrediting group stripped the county-owned hospital of its ability to train aspiring surgeons and radiologists, and recommended closing the neonatology training program. The loss of physician training programs is already a potentially crippling blow to a hospital that serves a largely minority and impoverished community.

"We have a mess on our hands, without a doubt," said Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky, who has been on the board nine years. "King/Drew has been a bottomless pit of problems that have in large measure been inadequately addressed. And now the cumulative effect of this decades-long neglect is that the whole institution is threatened."

According to the memo prepared by health department Director Dr. Thomas Garthwaite, the inspectors found:

"¢ Nurses are not meeting fundamental expectations for care "” showing a serious lack of attention to patients when they are first examined, while they are being treated at the hospital and specifically when they are in pain. They also are responsible for errors and omissions in patient records.

"¢ Problems with patient care and physicians are identified but changes are not made.

"¢ The hospital's governing body, which is ultimately the Board of Supervisors, will probably be cited for its lack of oversight, which means it must come up with a plan of correction. The supervisors delegate their authority over health care to the health department director.

Previously, Garthwaite has defended the quality of care provided at King/Drew, saying that it was comparable to other county hospitals. But in an interview Monday, he said he could no longer provide that assurance.

"I certainly feel less comfortable saying anything about the quality of care until we get additional studies done, additional actions taken," he said.

Garthwaite went on to say that the outside inspectors are looking into the death of another patient, this time because of a possible prescription drug error. He said he did not yet know the identity of the patient or the circumstances.

As a result of his uneasiness with the state of the hospital, Garthwaite said he continues to move new managers from the health department into all areas of King/Drew to find problems and fix them.

Under the current leadership, he said, "I couldn't assure myself that the right decisions were being made and that people were taking accountability for their actions and for the quality of care," he said.

Yaroslavsky said he also questions whether King/Drew patients receive comparable care to that delivered at other county hospitals.

"It's a disaster when people are not being adequately cared for," he said. "People who are taken to Martin Luther King deserve the same quality of care as when they are taking to L.A. County-USC [Medical Center].... That obviously has not been the case."

Supervisor Yvonne Brathwaite Burke, who represents the district that includes the hospital, called the latest inspection "absolutely troubling." She conceded that she and fellow supervisors bore some of the responsibility for not addressing the problems sooner and more aggressively.

"I think that we have dropped the ball in the sense that we have not demanded corrective action and immediate action as we've heard each one of these things," she said.

She added, however, that she was hoping that "the board doesn't take the position that we have to give up on King."

Dr. Alfred Forrest, the hospital's interim medical director, said the hospital will fix any problems identified by the inspectors. "Whatever their concerns are, we will address them. We have to," he said.

While county officials do not yet know the details of last week's inspection, a state report into the two deaths last summer found clear fault with the care delivered by nurses and other employees.

According to a report issued last month by the state Department of Health Services, nurses failed to notice over a 45-minute period that one patient's heart had slowed and then stopped. Also, some nurses apparently had never been taught to use new bedside monitors and one nurse lied about performing crucial tests ordered by a doctor. After being questioned, that nurse never returned to the hospital and was fired.

In both patients' cases, a technician assigned to watch a central monitor displaying patients' vital signs was also given other duties. It is unclear if anyone was watching the monitor when the women needed emergency attention.

Yesenia Reyes, a critical-care nurse at King/Drew, defended the quality of the nursing staff and said the staff is trying to deliver "caring, compassionate and competent care to our culturally diverse community."

Reyes said that nursing cuts, however, have at times hindered providing the best care. "At times we have to assist with basic care, do the bedpans and also give our medications.... We are working very hard."

The problems at King/Drew are prompting health officials and county supervisors to question the hospital's ability to serve its core community. Garthwaite said it may be time to cut back the number of specialty services offered at King/Drew in order to focus on basic medical care.

And Yaroslavsky said it may be time to reconsider whether the county should be contracting with Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science to run its doctor training programs at King/Drew.

"How long should the community wait when lives are hanging in the balance, literally hanging in the balance?" he asked.


_______________________________________________

The published factual accounting as shown above is an example where Black doctors, nurses, administrators, elected officials in using false pretenses to hold elected office....don't intend to serve the people who live in the community no good 2nd District Los Angeles County Supervisor Yvonne B. Burke, are large and in charge. Their greed to make money, took precedence over their actions to do the right thing. More so than any action or inaction on the part of Caucasians, the Republican Party, President Bush, Condoleeza Rice, each of these individuals have contributed to their own firing, unemployment, the prospect of closing down Martin Luther King County...A.K.A......"Butcher King"..."Killer King".....Hospital.

"You negroes(Lofton and Sgt) are not even bothered by the fact that blacks are not even making any of your tax money as others are stealing and overcharging the gov't and keeping all of the work to themselves." by Kevin41

....and if this is in fact the case, it means our own Black elected officials are in on the take too, while they deceive the Black community into believing that it is all Caucasian America's doing. Believe it, or not, elected officials have control over government assets, tax payers dollars that are earmarked for the jurisdiction to which they are bound by law to represent.

Like usual, it is so much easier to blame the Bush Administration, Condoleeza Rice, the Republican Party, because passing the "Buck" gives our own elected officials, Black lawyers, the so-called Black middle class, an excuse to do nothing, except point the finger at everyone else except themselves.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on December 15, 2003 at 07:20 PM.]
The issue of high black unemployment during this time is truthful and cannot be attributed to actions directly associated with blacks themselves.



Statement from an article I read

*Already the black unemployment rate - which declined every year that Bill Clinton was in the White House - has risen 25 percent since Bush because the nation's chief executive.

** The recent National Urban League report, "The State of Black America 2000," said black unemployment, though still twice that of whites, was at an all- time low, with a corresponding uptick in college enrollment and housing ownership.

From an article written by Julius Wilson

**We're experiencing an unemployment rate that has plummeted to 4.2 percent. The black unemployment rate is now the lowest since the Bureau of Labor Statistics started collecting that data in 1972.


From another article:

Black Unemployment Rises Faster
(July 13, 2003)
Unemployment among blacks is rising at a faster pace than in any similar period since the mid-1970's, and the jobs lost have been mostly in manufacturing, where the pay for blacks has historically been higher than in many other fields.

Nearly 2.6 million jobs have disappeared over all during the last 28 months, which began with a brief recession that has faded into a weak recovery. Nearly 90 percent of those lost jobs were in manufacturing, according to government data, with blacks hit disproportionately harder than whites.

**Go figure......
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Kevin, One more time, DAMMIT.

It's our fault that we have a higher unemployment rate, because we ... because we ... because ... because White folks say it's not their fault. Discrimination has nothing to do with it. After all, White folks should be free to hire anyone that they like. bs
Kweli...

You forgot:
White folks by the force of history should have been free to basically monopolize all of America's enterprises so that today (as they pass down their inheritance via heirs or sell their fortunes to "people they like") they can still do what they like!

They can have their cake (and everybody else's as it were/is historically) and eat them all too!

Yeah! The fact that they dominate industry by hook or more specifically CROOK doesn't matter. They dominate it and it's their right to... it's... theirs... to... do... as they... wish... Confused

Yeah! Next time a thief breaks into your house while you're gone or forcibly seizes it and hold you hostage... I can see how they have a right to do with that house whatever they want to do. It's theirs now since they've claimed and passed it down to their heirs. That gives their heirs even more rights to that "stolen" property!

You know they "improved" it so much!

Their entitled to it all now!
Ahhh Kweli and Nmaginate,

My bad....I don't know why i keep fighting Lofton's effort to change my thinking from the way "dem black folk" think. I need to realize that the white man is good and in the image of God and that blacks like myself are just ungrateful and unappreciative. as a black man, i should be happy for any job..cuz dey really don't have to GIVE me one in the first place.


** damn....my apologies
"My bad....I don't know why i keep fighting Lofton's effort to change my thinking from the way "dem black folk" think. I need to realize that the white man is good and in the image of God and that blacks like myself are just ungrateful and unappreciative. as a black man, i should be happy for any job..cuz dey really don't have to GIVE me one in the first place." by Kevin41

...and I'm not about to change my ways to give respect to individuals who are treasonous, sleazy, incompetent, sacrilegious, criminal, unethical, immoral, etc., over others truly deserving of admiration and respect. You go your way, and I'll go my way, .....but guess what, believe it or not, there are far more people in my camp than in yours.

Any preacher who does not practice what he preaches is not worth the time of day. Since these truths have been exposed about Michael King on numerous occasions, many individuals who previously respected Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., have truly lost all respect for him.

I don't owe you an answer to your question because Michael King is not worth my respect.

As for struggling academically, I've done very well, Thank You, to which your imagination, pompousness, etc., to erroneously brand me as otherwise, is as you've put it to me, truly irrelevant.


Heck, I would do the same to my grandfather, my grandfather being a Methodist preacher, should he be that preacher who cheats on his wife, lies about himself, plagiarizes the work of others to receive that doctorate degree, etc.

Since my grandfather was honorable, and did not do the things that a disgraceful Michael King has done, he will always have my respect, until I die.

I'm not about to flip this script for anyone, including my own immediate family or relatives, because respect is earned and not given away, like giving away candy to children on Halloween night.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton


[This message was edited by Lofton on December 17, 2003 at 11:20 AM.]
Lofton,

I see you did not respond to anything that related to the post.....jobs and the high black unemployment. Since you like to divert from the topic and repeat yourself across threads, i'll just pot my reply again from the other thread.

**Too bad negroes like you benefitted from the eforts of MLK. I am going to quit wasting my time with you because you are very small-minded and your priorities are all screwed up Lofton. Go ahead and continue to hate everything and everyone black and finish buck-dancing for whites over at PW. I am just glad I am proud to be a black person, comfortable with who I am and place as much criticism on myself as I do others. You are a very troubled man and do not really embrace logical thinking. I used to really resent guys like you but now I pity you more than anything. Whatever you are trying to get out of your system at the expense of black people, I hope you purge yourself accordingly. Your dialogue is very useless as it is filled fulled of ranting with no substance whatsoever. from now on, I'll only deal with negroes like you in person, because you coud be anyone behind a keyboard playing the racial antagonist role. You have come in here and spread many many lies and exaggerations that you could not substantiate. I see that many of the progressive blacks in here do not really respond to your nonsense. I hope I become as smart as they are....so i will not go back and forth with you......I just present questions to you which I know you will sidestep and divert. Obviously you are not that acacdemically inclined, because if you were, you would include more facts in your postings, be able to back up what you say in a factual manner.....and leave the emotional PMS-sounding diatribe out. So knock yourself out......because if you think these dignified and accomplished black people give a f-ck what a lunatic hood rat thinks or what he respects....then you are waaaay out there......
I see you did not respond to anything that related to the post.....jobs and the high black unemployment. Since you like to divert from the topic and repeat yourself across threads, i'll just pot my reply again from the other thread.

**Too bad negroes like you benefitted from the eforts of MLK. I am going to quit wasting my time with you because you are very small-minded and your priorities are all screwed up Lofton. Go ahead and continue to hate everything and everyone black and finish buck-dancing for whites over at PW. I am just glad I am proud to be a black person, comfortable with who I am and place as much criticism on myself as I do others. You are a very troubled man and do not really embrace logical thinking. I used to really resent guys like you but now I pity you more than anything. Whatever you are trying to get out of your system at the expense of black people, I hope you purge yourself accordingly. Your dialogue is very useless as it is filled fulled of ranting with no substance whatsoever. from now on, I'll only deal with negroes like you in person, because you coud be anyone behind a keyboard playing the racial antagonist role. You have come in here and spread many many lies and exaggerations that you could not substantiate. I see that many of the progressive blacks in here do not really respond to your nonsense. I hope I become as smart as they are....so i will not go back and forth with you......I just present questions to you which I know you will sidestep and divert. Obviously you are not that acacdemically inclined, because if you were, you would include more facts in your postings, be able to back up what you say in a factual manner.....and leave the emotional PMS-sounding diatribe out. So knock yourself out......because if you think these dignified and accomplished black people give a f-ck what a lunatic hood rat thinks or what he respects....then you are waaaay out there......


That was easy,

MLL
Read the other post Lofton....I am not about to play that stupid azz "chase lofton's repetitive posts" game. Like I said in the other post....my reality is your reality if you are black as you claim to be......so save the bitching.....get out and do something to rectify the situation since you have your panties in a bunch.....don't just whine and moan.....make a change your damn self........
"Read the other post Lofton....I am not about to play that stupid azz "chase lofton's repetitive posts" game. Like I said in the other post....my reality is your reality if you are black as you claim to be......so save the bitching.....get out and do something to rectify the situation since you have your panties in a bunch.....don't just whine and moan.....make a change your damn self........" by Kevin41

....well I'm controlling the game, while you continue to play that stupid *?*^# chase, meaning you have reneged, because you are still chasing. You can go get your "Booty Call" from your buddy Michael Jackson, while the sleazy Jesse Jackson, bogus dr. Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. ......if he were alive, or the very sleazy psuedo civil rights organization the NAACP take up a collection at the door.

Again, I choose my heroes and not you, to which in rank of importance, my true heroes are:

1. My Dad and Mom.

2. My grandparents, and great grandparents.

3. Any relative or family member who have been in my corner.

4. The heroism in me, to make things happen to better my own life.

5. The Joe Pine Radio Station, and one lone Black woman who helped to reunite my family, during the time in my life that Black people used the illegal break up of my immediate family for personal profit, as a means to pay down on their house note, luxury vehicles, etc.

6. The few teachers who have shared some of their expertise with me, so that I can use the information to earn an honest living.

7. Caucasian employers who have taken a chance on me, to which affirmative action, the NAACP, nor the bogus dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., etc., opened the door of opportunity for me.

8. A few friends, and/or co-workers who have helped me to rise above poverty.

9. The truly competent doctors of John Hopkins Hospital who kept in contact with my family during the first few years of my life, and/or the orthopedic surgeons of Kaiser Hospital who kept me alive after a very serious life threatening injury, to which the chance of life over death, seemed not to be in the mix for Michael Lofton.

10. Total strangers who have given of themselves to help me overcome an obstacle.

11. The many unsung heroes of Black America, who have lost their lives, been maimed, and/or who have made a huge sacrifice to make it possible for me to be where I am today.

12. The Salvation Army, United Way, and Catholic Church, which are the only charitable organizations to help my family in our times of need, while we lived on the streets of Los Angeles.

....and bogus dr. Martin Luther King, no good sleazy Reverend Jesse Jackson, the poverty pimping NAACP, the Urban League, SCLC, Push, the Rainbow Coalition, the so-called Black Church, any Black preacher, etc., are no where to be found on this list, because they have yet to do anything meaningful for my life, or anyone of my immediate family members.

I will say, that while visiting Washington High School, I had my first face to face experience with poverty pimping Reverend Jesse Jackson, to which Jesse Jackson's theme for the day, was "Down With Dope, and Up With Hope", to which Reverend Sleazy Jesse Jackson wasted little time in sending the collection basket around very shortly thereafter.

....not a one of my family members stood up when asked to stand, by the no good sleazy poverty pimping Reverend Jesse Jackson. Just as soon, as those Black people who stood, sat down, poverty pimping Reverend Jesse Jackson, called upon those who stood up, to contribute to the collection basket.

_______________________________

...but then again, Black people just love their misfits, in a former Los Angeles Police Chief Bernard Parks, now 8th District Los Angeles City Councilman Bernard Parks, who was forced to resign from the LAPD, because he punished the rank and file of the Los Angeles Police Department, while giving leniency to his top brass police officers who committed very serious criminal violations.

"In general, Parks said, such lawsuits represent an unfortunate trend of employees "who get in trouble and seek to use retaliation as a defense." " as depicted by the article...mind you should a good police officer report the criminal wrongdoing of a rogue LAPD officer and subsequently have his or her career ruined by the LAPD, so much so, that civil lawsuit for damages is in order, then according to Councilman Bernard Parks, "Civil lawsuit for damages represents an unfortunate trend of employees who get into trouble and use retaliation of a civil lawsuit for damages as a defense."....which is again very out of order for an elected official, because elected officials are supposed to:

A. be ethical.

B. work for the people.

C. represent the law abiding.

D. speak up in behalf of any good samaritan who exposes corruption on the part of any government employee, be it in a police officer or otherwise.


$6 Million to Be Paid in 9 Police Suits
A city attorney warned that juries could award huge damages if the whistle-blower cases filed by LAPD officers went to trial.
By Jessica Garrison and Scott Glover
Times Staff Writers

December 18, 2003

Fearing explosive testimony in court, the city of Los Angeles agreed Wednesday to pay a former police officer nearly $2 million to settle his claim that he was fired and suffered other retaliation after reporting apparent acts of excessive force by fellow officers.

The City Council approved the payment, along with $2 million to settle eight other lawsuits by Los Angeles Police Department officers who charged similar retaliation plus $2 million in fees for the officers' attorneys.

Among the cases were one officer's contention that he lost his job after reporting that an officer planted a gun after a shooting and, in an unrelated incident, that another officer struck a pregnant woman in the stomach. In another claim, an officer said he was shunned and threatened after testifying that the 1999 fatal shooting of a homeless woman, Margaret Mitchell, was unnecessary.

In a confidential memo, Deputy City Atty. Angel Manzano urged council members not to let the cases go to trial, warning that the city could face a huge financial risk if jurors were allowed to award damages.

But even as they voted to settle, some council members expressed concerns about the department's handling of the cases "” particularly about whether police officials appropriately addressed the alleged misconduct.

"I find the case extraordinarily troubling on many levels," said Councilman Jack Weiss, who said he wanted the department to explain what exactly happened in the underlying cases.

Councilman Antonio Villaraigosa also called on the city attorney and LAPD leaders to report on how they planned to prevent future lawsuits involving discrimination, retaliation and whistle-blowing.

"While a major concern is the cost to our taxpayers, I am also concerned about the message it sends ... that someone reporting wrongdoing could be punished for it," Villaraigosa said.

Only Councilman Dennis Zine, a former police officer, voted against the settlement, calling it outrageous and saying: "In good conscience I could not support those payouts to the tune of millions of dollars."

LAPD Assistant Chief Jim McDonnell said he had not seen details of the settlement and would not comment on it.

The largest payment went to Warren Brooks, who was fired in December 2002 after spending 15 years at the LAPD and acquiring a reputation for "doing things 'by the book,' " according to Manzano's memo.

The Police Department said it fired Brooks because he gave false and misleading testimony to a police Board of Rights panel that was investigating misconduct, according to the memo. But Brooks sued, saying the real reason he was terminated was because he broke the code of silence and reported two cases of misconduct by fellow officers.

In one case he said he saw an officer pull a gun out of his waistband in February 1999 and plant it at a crime scene, shortly after the officer fired at a suspect and said the suspect pointed a weapon at him.

Brooks also reported that another officer struck a pregnant woman in the stomach with his club in July 1999 while helping quell a disturbance at the Jordan Downs housing project. Brooks said he told his superiors about that incident the day it occurred; two days later, he filed a written report on the matter.

Nevertheless, the department charged him with failing to properly document the incident. In November 2001, a police disciplinary panel found him guilty and suspended him for five days without pay.

According to the city attorney's memo, Brooks was the only officer to file a written report regarding the incident. And although charges were brought against three other officers for not reporting the incident, Brooks was the only one to be disciplined.

Brooks appealed that suspension in Los Angeles County Superior Court, and a judge overturned the imposition of discipline.

But in 2002 another LAPD disciplinary panel accused Brooks of providing false and misleading testimony during his first hearing, saying that his testimony at that hearing did not conform with his tape-recorded statements to internal affairs investigators. The city attorney's memo said that convening the panel arguably violated the judge's order.

Brooks failed to appear before that panel, claiming stress. And on Dec. 18, 2002, the panel found him guilty in absentia and terminated his employment.

Given all that, Manzano's memo argued, a jury could find that the LAPD's "disciplinary system was manipulated so as to target Brooks and ultimately terminate his employment."

The memo added that "the fact that the actions against him occurred after his complaints regarding alleged misconduct, and that prior thereto he had a good record ... may also lead a jury to conclude that a retaliatory motive was at work."

"The facts of this case could lead a jury to award several million dollars," the memo added.

Under the terms approved Wednesday, Brooks will receive a $1.24-million payment, along with $615,000 to settle a workers' compensation claim. His personnel record will also be changed to say that he retired, instead of being fired, and he will receive a retirement identification card and a badge. In return, he promises never to seek another job in the city.

Brooks would not comment about the settlement, citing an agreement with city lawyers not to discuss the details of the lawsuit.

In previous interviews with The Times, however, he said he relished the opportunity to testify against the Police Department in court.

He predicted long ago that city lawyers would settle the case because, he said, they knew they had no way to explain the Police Department's actions and because they were fearful of what else he might say on the stand.

"They don't want anything to do with me," he said. "They know better."

Other cases appeared less incendiary, and cost the city less money.

One officer, Barry Brooks, will receive a $150,000 payment. He said he was subjected to ongoing retaliation because he complained that a police captain was giving preferential treatment to lesbian officers.

Another officer, Craig Crosby, will get $983,000. Crosby says he was retaliated against because he blew the whistle on the mismanagement of hundreds of millions of dollars of computer contracts.

In another high-profile case, the city will pay Officer John Goines $400,000 in lost wages, damages and workers' compensation claims.

Goines said he was shunned and that department officials threatened to file an unwarranted personnel complaint against him because he testified that the 1999 shooting of Mitchell should not have occurred.

Mitchell was shot in May 1999 near 4th Street and La Brea Avenue shortly after two bike patrol officers stopped her to see if her shopping cart was stolen.

At one point, the 102-pound Mitchell pulled a 12-inch screwdriver from a pile of clothes in the shopping cart and began waving it. One of the officers shot her after she allegedly lunged at him.

Her death led to nationwide publicity and numerous public demonstrations against the department alleging police brutality.

The nine cases settled Wednesday were part of a larger class-action lawsuit against the Police Department and the city over alleged discrimination and retaliation.

Many of those cases were dismissed and others were settled, according to officials.

Eric Moses, a spokesman for City Atty. Rocky Delgadillo, defended the settlements, saying: "We worked hard to reduce the city's liability." According to the memo, officials estimated the city could face jury verdicts totaling $40 million for all the cases, not to mention the costs to the city to try them.

Councilman Bernard C. Parks, who was chief of police for much of the period covered in the lawsuits, was recused from considering the settlements.

In general, Parks said, such lawsuits represent an unfortunate trend of employees "who get in trouble and seek to use retaliation as a defense."
_______________________________
....and by the way, I lived on 120th and Main during the heart of the first Watt's Riot, meaning back in the day, when few if any Black people lived west of Western Avenue.

Unlike your contention, I have yet to say or imply that racism does not exist or that "Jim Crowe" activity does not exist, because to say this would not be the reality of it.

I'm saying that bogus dr. Martin Luther King, poverty pimping snake oil Reverend Jesse Jackson, the NAACP, the Congressional Black Caucus, the Brotherhood Crusade, etc., have not contributed to, or benefited my life, or anyone connected with my life in any regard.

Any credit given, will be given to the many unsung heroes, who faced guns, dogs, rogue police officers, the KKK, and/or last but not least those who faced misfits in that traitor set from our own Black community who find it amusing to break up the Black family structure for profit.

....and finally my goal, has never been to eat at any Caucasian owned restaurant, fill the concert hall of any Caucasian own business, because "God" truly blesses the individual who owns his or her own. As reality would have it, the only pandering crowd, are that crowd of Black people, who beg to eat at a Denny's, or bend over backwards to spend their income in business interests to which they do not have the first percentage of the ownership of the business.

You won't find Koreans, Hispanics, Phillipinos, Jamaicans, etc., begging to eat at any Denny's Diner, because they are too busy taking on the responsibilities of owning or running their own businesses.

....as far as any nigger being caught in the dark, those of righteousness stand a better chance, those of who are not righteous bring on their own misfortune.

I'm not about to violate the law by driving while drunk, being under the influence of illicit narcotics, pulling a knife or firearm on a police officer, etc., be it in the hood, or cruzing through the heart of Beverly Hills.

Carpetbagger Using False Pretenses to Hold Elected Office Assemblyman Kevin Murray


Assemblyperson Kevin Murray was caught in broad daylight soliciting a prostitute, but I presume being caught for ....."niggering"-"being caught over there after dark" ....is too blame here too.

Heck, in 1970, and for five years thereafter, I lived in Inglewood, California, west of La Brea Boulevard, when Inglewood was predominately Caucasian, and few if any Black people lived west of Prairie Ave.

But guess what, I never feared for my life, and the few times I was pulled over by the Inglewood Police, the moment it was determined that I actually lived in the community, and that I was law abiding, rarely was it the case that I was ever confronted by Inglewood Police officers.

Surely can't say that it is safe in Inglewood now. Ever since Black people became large and in charge, more Black people have been killed or the truly innocent have been criminally prosecuted, by other Black people than at any time that Caucasians were large and in charge.

Now, those who look for trouble, will not have any problem finding trouble. Many Black people who are confronted by police, bring the police pursuit on themselves by carrying illicit contraband, being under the influence, carrying unregistered firearms, gang banging, fighting in public, speeding, violating the rights of others, stealing, robbing, etc., to which those who fit the description evidently must like being confronted by police officers.

The tickets that I truly earned which were paid off, were not received because I was "Black", but rather, for the "California Roll", a parking citation, etc. Any ticket that was not earned was fought in court, to which I have yet to pay for any ticket truly unearned.

....any Black man or woman, who receives a traffic violation solely because they are Black, must be extremely weak for not taking their chances in court. Again, no innocent individual is going to take responsibility for a parking ticket, a moving violation, a penal infraction, etc., to which they can prove their innocence beyond any reasonable doubt.

...as for, "So you can live in denial like a fat heiffer wearing a little dress.....yeah, she is wearing what small women wear but that does not make her azz be a small woman also. So carry on and rant and rave all you like Lofton....it is very comical in nature...and does not change the fact of your social reality here in the US" by Kevin41

........but you know what, again I could care less as to what you think of me, or say about me, because it does not in any way affect my livelihood. ...as for any perverted sexual activity, being that pedophile, acting like a women, ...save it for your buddy Michael Jackson. When he gets out of prison, after a twenty year sentence, maybe you and Michael Jackson can team up, and you can write a novel about life after prison for a pedophile, by Kevin41.


Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on December 18, 2003 at 09:46 PM.]
Lofton posted,

But guess what, I never feared for my life, and the few times I was pulled over by the Inglewood Police, the moment it was determined that I actually lived in the community, and that I was law abiding, rarely was it the case that I was ever confronted by Inglewood Police officers.


***And to thnk, I have never been pulled over by any of them and I acknowledge the plight of other brothers who have....and you are one of the very brothers who I am referring to and you make excuses for them.so what were you doing, driving fast or dangerous or were you just black? Think about it and embrace the reality of the situation.
Despite those who prefer to live in DENIAL, and you know who you are, I would just like to clear up a couple of other myths that the Bush haters seem to be so stuck on and constantly repeat the inaccuracies, presumably to make everyone begin to believe things that are not so in reality.

First off, NO, there has been NO increase in lower paying minimum wage jobs as a ratio of total jobs. According to the tables I've provided from the labor dept., the ratio remains just about the same as 3 years ago. Yes, I've heard the presidential candidates claim this, but of course thats why I'm posting the FACTS here for all to see for themselves. This entire fallacy is more a desperate attempt to contradict the reality, which doesn't surprise me anymore. But the facts do not lie.

I'm not taking sides either way, other than the side of 'reality and truth'.


Now, it doesn't take 'much' common sense to know that if there aren't lots of folks making good money in higher paying jobs, then there'd be no great influx of people 'dining out' or ordering 'services' that employ lower paid workers. So to suggest a magical increase in the demand for lower paying positions such as waiters, etc., belies that fact that in order to have such a demand would REQUIRE people with MONEY to spend, which presumably is what those who believe all these new jobs are limited to only lower paying jobs do not understand. But in reality there has been no such great 'boom' in the demand for lower skilled workers.

So the 'myth' that all new jobs are lowering paying is not only not accurate, but doesn't make 'logical' sense either. Those who believe that high paying jobs have been replaced by low paying jobs have NO data whatsoever to suggest theres been this boom in restaurant dining or service related fields requiring low skilled workers. That doesn't even make sense. Again, the ratio remains constant according to the labor dept's own records.

Someone mentioned 'population growth' or something to that effect, to refute the labor dept's records. Sorry, but that is neither here nor there. If someone claims there are 3 million 'less' jobs now, and that isn't the case, there is no way to explain that away except to say its inaccurate. And as anyone can easily check, the US population hasn't grown significantly during the last 3 years either, so I have no idea what that has to do with total number of jobs anyway.

As for jobs being shipped overseas, that has occurred consistently over about 10 years now. The effect of that is almost nonexistent to the labor force as a whole however, since the demand for software developers and programmers has ALWAYS outstripped the supply of american workers anyway. In fact, the majority of jobs lost to overseas facilities are 'toy-making' and assembly line positions, which are low-paying minimum wage jobs anyway. So if anything, we've LOST low paying jobs over the last couple of decades, not gained them.

By the way, this brings up another 'myth' floating out there that 'manufacturing jobs' are being lost at some undefined alarming rate, which also is inaccurate since those as well have remained fairly constant over the last decade, which is one stat that surprised even me.

As those of you who care about truth can see, the facts do not support those who like to jaw about such things and pretend everything is so 'hard' or 'bad' all the time. All market indicators not only paint a picture of a good job market, but the economy is booming and has been for a while now. No way to get around that, so use caution when listening to those in 'denial' who do not care to check these things themselves, and have other motivations in mind when they speak.

Thanks to all who participated.

[This message was edited by sergeant on December 19, 2003 at 09:13 AM.]


[This message was edited by sergeant on December 19, 2003 at 09:16 AM.]
quote:
Despite those who prefer to live in DENIAL, and you know who you are, I would just like to clear up a couple of other myths that the Bush haters seem to be so stuck on and constantly repeat the inaccuracies, presumably to make everyone begin to believe things that are not so in reality.

F@CK BUSH, F@CK CLINTON, F@CK 'EM, F@CK EM ALL!!!

This is AfricanAmerica.org
AFRICAN... AMERICA...

IF you can't *center* your comments on that... Instead of centering on BUSH and White ideologies which include the Liberal/CONservative CONstruct (as in man-made CONtraption)... then your Question Asking privileges aren't the only things that need to be REVOKED!


fro AquaBOOGIE Babie! brocool
I'm pretty sure African Americans vote in elections sonny, and appreciate truth when they find it. The beauty of being free is that you are not compelled to comment on subjects that don't interest you. Maybe theres a topic here that interests you, perhaps you should be posting there instead.

Adults Only! No spamming please.

[This message was edited by sergeant on December 19, 2003 at 09:50 AM.]
Nmaginate have a good point. What does it matter to the black community if many white people with or without higher education, with or without criminal record are finding work and yet the black populace with or without higher education, with or without criminal record are not having similar success?

SGT, what does it matter to the black community how well Bush does if the fruits of his administration does not positively impact African Americans who are not getting similar job considerations. This is the reality, what matters to me is not so much who is the blame which is important indeed, but what we as a people do about it.

I read the study that white men with criminal records were getting more job consideration than black men without a criminal record and with higher qualifications.

Sgt, it is OK to be conservative and have a love for this country as long as you do not ignore the role of racism in our society and the impact it has on the black community and when crap hits the fan you are right there in our corner bc weather you realize it or not, you are in the same boat with the rest of us as long as you are black.

I for one have little faith that things will ever change in the short term and I feel black people should focus on creating, maintaining our own black business culture we should be biased with who and where we spend our money to help alleviate the impact of biased white employers. I really feel we will sink or swim on our own merits by us for us.

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.

[This message was edited by JuneBug on December 19, 2003 at 10:43 AM.]
Trust me June, conservatives have no monopoly on being racists. You say you have little faith in change, yet in my lifetime alone the changes have been stunning and overwhelming.

Frankly, these days, it is ridiculous to consider racism outside the scope of black dominance in pro sports, number one television shows and movies, black stars abound everywhere, black presidential candidates, even Michael Jackson thrilled the white world for decades. A racist society would have seen NONE of the above, and I recall the times in which none of the above existed.

So I say have faith, and most of all, open your eyes and see what we ARE in fact doing.
Well said JUNEBUG!

And, Sgt., you can take what he said to the bank!
    "...it is OK to be conservative and have a love for this country as long as you do not ignore the role of racism in our society and the impact it has on the black community and when crap hits the fan........"
If you want to deny that then read the
BOOK REPORT
quote:
scoot off and let other people express themselves as they see fit
Okay! Got It!
I have you down as another KID on the playground who can dish but can't take!

Do You... REMEMBER THE TIME!

fro It really is all about THE BOOGIE!
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

A racist society would have seen NONE of the above, and I recall the times in which none of the above existed.



sergeant - certainly you can understand that racism may be applied unevenly throughout society. White folks have always enjoyed seeing us sing and dance. Running a ball is not too far removed from that type of entertainment. Even in that example, why are there only 5 black head coaches in all of Division 1 college football? Why are there only a few black coaches in the NFL? Do you think that blacks have the same opportunity to coach and manage teams as they do to play?

Because there may be more opportunity in some slivers of society does not mean that there is equal opportunity throughout ALL of society.


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
But WHO was it that WAS doing the singing and dancing mbm? And there ARE celebrated black coaches, singers, actors, stars, musicians, idols, miss americas, politicians, religious leaders, secretary of states, and throughout EVERY facet of life we are there. Again, never would you see that in a 'racist' society.

And frankly, I do not believe in 'equal' opportunity, since that tends to leave out the aspirations, talents, and enthusiasm of the best and brightest amongst us. What the goal SHOULD be is:

FREEDOM of OPPORTUNITY.

You on the otherhand look at the picture backwards. For one example:

Not enough head coaches (in your opinion), then something must be wrong!!! But where are all these great black coaches hiding? Who has deemed them better than the current coaches? Do you know for a fact that there are all these great coaches out there floating around somewhere unemployed presumably? Do we not now have about 10 times as many coaches at all levels than we did just a decade ago? So the end picture you take as your snap-shot is not the whole story, and that is not a barometer in all cases of anything, especially a racism problem. You'll not you do not see many black male ballet artists for example. Should we worry about racism in ballet now????

Human beings are by nature are not all the same, equality looks good in text books, but lets stop the dumbing down of everyone into simplistic little 'lowest common-denominator' stereotypes, like has occurred since we integrated into public schools for example. I would rather compete without all the whining, excuses and solicitation, because to do otherwise is not 'keeping it real'.
quote:
Frankly, these days, it is ridiculous to consider racism outside the scope of black dominance in pro sports, number one television shows and movies, black stars abound everywhere, black presidential candidates, even Michael Jackson thrilled the white world for decades.


Can you recognize that all of those examples are exceptions and not the average? Are the exceptions enough for you to ignore what is really happening in regards to racism to the avg black person?

Look great things have happened to me too but trust me I had to overcome and still deal with racist attitudes along the way. But does it mean since I'm doing OK that racism is not an issue?

Many new studies proves racism certainly plays a serious role on how high qualified black people fly.

In the building I work there is a black financial company and they are doing very well, why? Because they are getting the best and brightest black people to work for them, why were they available in the first place, because they were not getting the same promotion and job considerations similar to whites.

And those who are employed there feel very lucky and blessed to work for a black firm that treats them according to their success and ability which can not be said for many black folks in the working world today.

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

Again, never would you see that in a 'racist' society.



So let me understand you sergeant. You believe that there is no racism in American society?


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
Theres plenty of racism. Always has been. And its hardly restricted to america for that matter. There is also violence, perversity, intolerance, and craziness in ALL societies. Do we now define a society as 'crazy' since it has crazy folks within it? Do we say that muslim culture is intolerant because there exists intolerance within it? Are black people as a whole, a murderous race, since there are in fact murderers within it?


No, of course we do not. Again, please explain why michael jordan, bill cosby, oprah, and on and on and on, can be at the TOP of the economic, social, and popularity ladders all while existing within your 'entirely racist american society'. I'd really like to hear that one.
1.
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

But WHO was it that WAS doing the singing and dancing mbm? And there ARE celebrated black coaches, singers, actors, stars, musicians, idols, miss americas, politicians, religious leaders, secretary of states, and throughout EVERY facet of life we are there. Again, never would you see that in a 'racist' society.




2.
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

Theres plenty of racism. Always has been.


Please justify the two statements against each other.



quote:
There is also violence, perversity, intolerance, and craziness.


Why are you so willing to acknowledge these human frailties, but not racism?


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
Lofton,
You are obviously mentally ill as you wish things on others without proof. They should have locked your azz up as a kid and destroyed the key. worthless huh? well I am sure my contributions to the black race far outweigh those of a self-hating apologist negro....man i would love to see what sistah dates your warped azz because she has to have mental issues also just to see your azz as normal.....so since you wish that on MJ, maybe you'll get arrested and ran up in. the sad part is...you'd probably love it if it was a white guy doing it to you wile shouting, "I HATE ALL N-GGERS EXCEPT FOR YOU LOFTON!!!! You would really be in your element, because you are always eluding to that type of behavior.........


Sgt....you're just a plain dum azz rag-head house negro.....If there was ever a revolution, your type would have to be the first to go.......
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

And now, so is yours. You cannot explain any of that can you.

Alright, if you need escape, you got it.

Nice chattin.


I see someone getting sent back to the "?" forum again! rotflmao


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
Sgt. CONFESS YOUR WHITENESS!

It is crystal clear. You are TRANSPARENT!
Only a WHITE person believes and is DEAD-set on believing in extreme, absolutes...
ALL-OR-NOTHING!

"America is a Christian nation"
That means ALL Americans are Christian or if it's false then NO American can be Christian. Confused

Great Logic! Sarge!

"Saddam Hussien - aka SO-DAMN INSANE - was a terrible, brutal tyrannical leader and repressed the "Iraqi" people. He was very bad for them."
Either ALL the Iraqis suffered or NONE of the Iraqis suffered. If one or a few Iraqis obtained wealth then Saddam is a great leader!!

NO! NO! NO! T*tty MILK!

We like to eat meat around here. We'll order some Gerber purees for you.
fro "BOOGIE!"
Sgt, you are still talking about the exceptions not the rule. What about the rule?!!!! You admit there is racism so if that is the case how can you ignore the rule and stick with the exceptions?

You are so easily convinced that racism is not an important component in the high unemployment rate of blacks or how high they fly but I think there are some other issues in play with you regarding this subject.

In my opinion we work as a community to create our own job market by being biased in our spending habits. Because as it is in every society the majority hires those who looks and acts like them and also they except negative stereotypes as an excuse for their hiring and promotion practices. It's the real world and we must act accordingly.

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.
June, sorry, but I'm not getting all this the rule the exceptions stuff. Can you explain that a bit?

And yes, racism is NOT the cause of unemployment, nor the cause of crime, nor many of the other ills that mantras of rich black lawyers and activists have been trying to convince us of for so long. You see, if you tell someone something long enough, especially while they are young, they tend to become that thing. And so it is in our community. Tell us how abused and forlorn we all are, and how wrong the school system is, and how hopeless it is to be black, and VOILA, we become forlorn, uneducated, and hopeless. You see?

And before you go off on all this support black business jive, I have owned many businesses and employed a whole lot of folks over the years from my community. I believe in business and hard work, and the freedom and dignity it brings to all who practice these. Its not an issue of escaping the bigger market around you however, THAT is not even possible.
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:
June, sorry, but I'm not getting all this the rule the exceptions stuff. Can you explain that a bit?

And yes, racism is NOT the cause of unemployment, nor the cause of crime, nor many of the other ills that mantras of rich black lawyers and activists have been trying to convince us of for so long. You see, if you tell someone something long enough, especially while they are young, they tend to become that thing. And so it is in our community. Tell us how abused and forlorn we all are, and how wrong the school system is, and how hopeless it is to be black, and VOILA, we become forlorn, uneducated, and hopeless. You see?

And before you go off on all this support black business jive, I have owned many businesses and employed a whole lot of folks over the years from my community. I believe in business and hard work, and the freedom and dignity it brings to all who practice these. Its not an issue of escaping the bigger market around you however, THAT is not even possible.
Sure Sgt. You're a regular Magic Johnson.

READ the BOOK Report!

Get the BLACK MAGIC!

And find the *CENTER*!
(CENTER OF THE WORLD!.... "You got to get a life!" - Jazzy B/Soul-II-Soul)
Exceptions or what happens to only a few via good fortune, extraordinary talent or was actually treated fairly because of their qualifications.

SGT said regarding exceptions....
quote:
Frankly, these days, it is ridiculous to consider racism outside the scope of black dominance in pro sports, number one television shows and movies, black stars abound everywhere, black presidential candidates, even Michael Jackson thrilled the white world for decades.


SGT said:
quote:
And there ARE celebrated black coaches, singers, actors, stars, musicians, idols, miss americas, politicians, religious leaders, secretary of states, and throughout EVERY facet of life we are there.


Rule or what is happening the most to the majority in the real world:

JuneBug said:
quote:
What does it matter to the black community if many white people with or without higher education, with or without criminal record are finding work and yet the black populace with or without higher education, with or without criminal record are not having similar success?

SGT, what does it matter to the black community how well Bush does if the fruits of his administration does not positively impact African Americans who are not getting similar job considerations.


quote:
Can you recognize that all of those examples are exceptions and not the average? Are the exceptions enough for you to ignore what is really happening in regards to racism to the avg black person?



There is a contrast of what is happening in the job market when you compare whites and blacks of similar backgrounds. As I said:..

quote:
In my opinion we work as a community to create our own job market by being biased in our spending habits.Because as it is in every society the majority hires those who looks and acts like them and also they except negative stereotypes as an excuse for their hiring and promotion practices. It's the real world and we must act accordingly.



The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.
quote:
Its not an issue of escaping the bigger market around you however, THAT is not even possible.
You are stuck on this ESCAPE thing aren't you?

It's not about "escaping" it's about enhancing, creating, thriving... Oh... I forgot your commentary is that "we survived". And since that's were you want to leave it then you "choose" to merely be an object or rather a mere sub-ject and not THE SUBJECT!

We'll count you and all your expertise out of the GRAND PROJECT! That's your choice. Sobeit!

... and since you insist... From the album ESCAPE!

From the bottom to the top,
the top to the bottom
Im gonna rock em,
while I still got em...

broscream (REWIND!!!)

Now the party didnt start till I walked in
And I probably wont leave until the thing ends
But in the mean time,
the in between time
If you work your thing,
then I'll work mine...

fro "BOOGIE, FUNK, BOOGIE!"
Soul II Soul!

Happy Face, a THUMPIN' BASS, For a LOVING/LOVELY RACE! brosmile
Frankly June, the world of sports, movies, television, stardom, politics, all of these are at the ZENITH in western culture, noone struggles to be 'unknown', unpopular, or 'off television' if you get my drift. Again, we are saturating all these arenas, far more than our 13% for sure, and none of you has explained why we can be so dominate and visible in the very segments and strata that carry such highly valued and popular rhealms, the 'top of the heap', if this is such a racist culture. Sorry, but that just don't mix.

Now, the 'average' black person is neither poor nor living in squalor. The 'average' black person is not unemployed, nor a common criminal. The 'average' black person does not have to shun sidewalks, hide behind trees, nor have to drink from black only fountains. So when you say 'average', its a throwback to those who live in the past, and see today as if it were still 1930. But its not. Reality is reality, open the eyes and SEE it.
quote:
"I" call them as "I" see them...
And WHO the F@CK are you?

F@ckin' BOO! From the F@CKIn' WHO???

DON'T NOBODY GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOU and WHAT YOU Think! T*TTY!

"TRUTH_WACKED"??? .... "TRUTH"???
Stooge, you are the PROP in PROPoganda!
False CORRELATIN' @%(#^&$((&(*&@#(&#$(&!!!U&)$! Big Grin

Get a F@CKin CLUE!
fro The BOOGIE can help you! If you BOOGIE want...

F@CK BUSH, F@CK CLINTON....
Damn, I guess that leaves you with very little to say?
"Do you think that blacks have the same opportunity to coach and manage teams as they do to play?"

Nope but neither does anyone else. A roster of 55 players and still just one head coach.

Seems some of the people here have been too busy reading about or remembering exceptions from the past, they never bothered to head down to their local businesses and see that what once were exceptions has now become the rule.

"What does it matter to the black community if many white people with or without higher education, with or without criminal record are finding work and yet the black populace with or without higher education, with or without criminal record are not having similar success?"

It should matter to the black community, since listening to people whine about something like that would just give every hardworking black person a headache, and serves only to undermine the success they are having. Since anyone that wants to can find a job. White, black, retarded, or a felon.
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:
no, only 'truth-whacked'. I call them as I see them, no matter who does or doesn't like it.


truth? we all have a piece of that. but the fuzzy purport of employment gains under bush's administration is hogwash, and you know it. also, if the numbers were solid, where's the windfall for the 32 plus state budgets that have pared their projected revenue intake since 2000?

besides, can you provide any other source other than dol (headed by gimpy chao) to bolster your claim and that of this administration? if so, why has greenspan remained so cautious?

and what does the dnc have to do with anything? you simply yielded to a fflaw in your claim there.

"There are two ways of exerting one's strength: one is pushing down, the other is pulling up."
~ Booker T Washington


[This message was edited by afro_geek on December 22, 2003 at 07:56 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by injury:
anyone that wants to can find a job. White, black, retarded, or a felon...
RELATIVE... CONTEXT... DO THE MATH, Check the stats, plenty of studies done!

If you don't won't to hear the "WHINING" then why is your WHITE A$$ Up In Here In the FIRST PLACE?

Another FALSE CORRELATIN' B@tc~!
quote:
Everybody has asked the question...
"What shall we do with the Negro?"
I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us!
Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us.
Do nothing with us!

- Frederick Douglas
You probably like that huh?
But somehow you can seem to read plain F@CKin' ENGLISH!

Do NOTHING with us!
- aka TAKE YOUR A$$ ON! ... and ...
Never DO NOTHING again when it comes to US!
(That means NOTHING! NO posting on this site... NOTHING!) Big Grin

Also... Flip The Coin!
quote:
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the roar of its many waters...

"Agitate, agitate, agitate!!".

- Frederick Douglas
Call it WHINE if you want. When you get the "H" out! Our WINE will be fine in time!

[This message was edited by Nmaginate on December 19, 2003 at 01:41 PM.]
"plenty of studies done"
I have yet to see one done in any recent timeframe that couldn't be dismissed by a third grader due to the obvious bias they employ.

But why would you bother to dig into them, if on the surface they say what you agree with, well then that must make it right? Thus your ignorance is confirmed.
We "whine" and we are "ignorant"...
So why are you here?
What would make you want to be in our
company if what you say is true?

And, you really shouldn't talk about Third Grade and what people should be able to figure out... And bias?? And you dare talk about only accepting things one agrees with!!!
Silly Rabbit !!
What do the HELL you think you do? Confused
quote:
"What does it matter to the black community if many white people with or without higher education, with or without criminal record are finding work and yet the black populace with or without higher education, with or without criminal record are not having similar success?" - HIM

It should matter to the black community... YOU
What'w the matter?
You don't like it when someone tells you and yours that YOU don't matter?

Be the non-entity you are! Embrace it!
You'll feel better once you stop whining and coming here for acceptance.

Go back to your PW Hole (ProtestWarrior.com)...
So damn... too damn Predictable!!
It appears the "NoahTheAfrican" mentality made a bunch of you p@ssies want to ban him.
That right! We know what the *P* really stands for!

rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

You guys over there have about as much logic as S)-DAMN INSANE has power!

rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

You guys can't even hold the logic-jock of one of Saddam's headlice!!

rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

I guess you're here to "REHABILITATE" us, huh?

rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

Okay! As long as we can Re-hab with RUSH!

rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

"I was taking prescription medicine for a serious condition"


[This message was edited by Nmaginate on December 19, 2003 at 02:53 PM.]
"So why are you here?"
Open invitation

"And bias?? And you dare talk about only accepting things one agrees with!!!"
You seem to have trouble grasping how bias was used in context...thanks to our friends at dictionary.com I present to you
-A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.

-A statistical sampling or testing error caused by systematically favoring some outcomes over others.

As far as your attempted jab that I have in some way shown bias, proof please. Instead of showing me a non biased report of widespread racial bias in hiring...I get "why are you here?" and an inference to me being bias. So you have some preconcieved notion that if someone disagrees with you, they were biased in the first place? It couldn't be perhaps you were wrong, perhaps the other side doesn't have some secret fact that you have? They must be biased right?

"What'w the matter?
You don't like it when someone tells you and yours that YOU don't matter?"
Noone said I don't matter, hrmmm you like to infer a lot don't you.
YOU DON'T MATTER!!

Now, that we have that settled...
PW and the PW All-Stars (not to be confused with the Three Stooges... why would I ever think Mo, Larry, Curl or the fill-in guy of the Month would ever be that dumb.)

BIAS... proof??
Please, why in the world do you think I would waste my time trying to debate with you about what my reality is and what Black people experience.

Your opinion when it comes to that, DOESN'T MATTER!!
What I know to be true is not debateable!

Further, you challenged what I said about "STUDIES"... The ball is in your court to prove your claims about them! And, the impetus of the studies like art... reflects "life"/reality...

But you probably think the impetus for them have something to do with a CONspiracy! huh?
Yeah!!! The Liberals are out the do us all in!!! Yeah!!! ... Really... Roll Eyes
(BEWARE... AROUND EVERY COUNTER LURKS...
*A LIBERAL*)
rotflmao

Well, F@ck you and the "liberals"...
What and they say... (you got it) DON'T MATTER!

"secret fact"???
rotflmao
Some more CONspiracy Theories huh?

"WRONG".... and "RIGHT"....
Don't get "right" CONfused with "RIGHT"-wing Bub! Back to your PW Hole! Go back and lick your wounds like The Patriot and JON-a$$ did early this year.

The "P" is for..... ???
quote:
So you have some preconcieved notion that if someone disagrees with you, they were biased in the first place? It couldn't be perhaps you were wrong, perhaps the other side doesn't have some secret fact that you have? They must be biased right?

DAMN!!!

I guess all you PW guys got the same, form-letter MEMO. The same old broke logic, same old broke aSSumptions, same old aSSinine aSSertions. "Maybe you are wrong!"

Well... (no offense to anyone else intended)
"Could it be you are GAY??" and that's why you think like you do?Confused

Could it be that you get this ... shhhhhhh!!! (secret) knowledge/facts from some Cult-For-Dumbies where you must have picked up what you think amounts to anything worth knowing...
    REPEAT AFTER ME:

    "I"... 'I'
    "STATE YOUR NAME"... 'STATE YOUR NAME'
Yeah, somebody must have had a given all you guys the same script the rough-draft ear marked for the Big Lots of Hollywood!

"It couldn't be perhaps you were wrong, perhaps the other side doesn't have some secret fact that you have?"

You know... that actually sounds about right...
"the other side doesn't have...fact(s)... we have!" (not to mention experience and fairy tale beliefs...

Silly Rabbit !!
"What I know to be true is not debateable!"
Should say...percieve to be true is debatable.

"why in the world do you think I would waste my time trying to debate with you about what my reality is and what Black people experience."

So you are saying that you have been wronged so viscously yet it's not worth even mentioning? True not being black I won't ever know internally what it "feels" like to be black. However not being blind, I can see when injustices are done. Being human I do know what it's like to be discriminated against. Noone has a monopoly on injustice.

Your lack of bringing anything logical to the table, refusal to provide fact, or even anecdotal example just shows you are angry, not that you've been viscously wronged.

"Further, you challenged what I said about "STUDIES"... The ball is in your court to prove your claims about them!"

You asserted your feelings were proven in some studies you read, I provided a common thought on studies in polls. In fact it was a challenge for you to produce the studies you've read to see if in fact they are unbiased....still waiting. Or perhaps you realize that the sampling method behind them was flawed in the first place so you won't bring them to the table?

"But you probably think the impetus for them have something to do with a CONspiracy!"
Conspiracy? Nope, actually juding from what I've read to this point the one wearing the tin foil hat is most likely you. The fact that studies are taken by political groups (on all sides) with their own agendas, would be evidence enough to be cautious before taking the results to be fact.

"Could it be you are GAY?? and that's why you think like you do?"
So a personal insolt on ones sexuality (of course we've seen already how you like to infer things on people revealing your ignorance), feeling a little insecure about the way the debate is going are we? Could it be I think the way I do because my reality is based on...reality. Not something I've read somewhere, but rather things that are experienced and seen first hand? Because I don't feed on the scraps of "knowledge" from others without at least a bit of thought behind it? Because in this world, what is said and what is done rarely match up?

You do realize nmaginate, that words have more than one meaning? Once again I take you to the dictionary.
Secret - Not expressed; inward

The one blathering on about conspiracies is you and only you.

"You know... that actually sounds about right...
"the other side doesn't have...fact(s)... we have!" "
True, so why so much bitterness expressed by you in the face of what would amount to nothing more than ignorance, that is a problem easily remedied.

I will say as a person who "doesn't matter", it is awfully nice of you to reply to every one of my posts with two of yours...sign of putting some extra thought into someone that doesn't matter, perhaps? If I truly didn't matter why bother replying at all?
quote:
"What I know to be true is not debateable!"
Should say...percieve to be true is debatable.

"why in the world do you think I would waste my time trying to debate with you about what my reality is and what Black people experience."

So you are saying that you have been wronged so viscously yet it's not worth even mentioning? True not being black I won't ever know internally what it "feels" like to be black. However not being blind, I can see when injustices are done. Being human I do know what it's like to be discriminated against. Noone has a monopoly on injustice.

Your lack of bringing anything logical to the table, refusal to provide fact, or even anecdotal example just shows you are angry, not that you've been viscously wronged.

What part of:
    Please, why in the world do you think I would waste my time trying to debate with you about what my reality is and what Black people experience.

    Your opinion when it comes to that, DOESN'T MATTER!!
    What I know to be true is not debateable!
... DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?


I have and will not even begin to attempt to "bringing anything logical", factual or anecdotal "to the table" strictly because YOU (and what you think) DOESN'T MATTER!

Further, you presume I have something I need to prove to you. That assumes you are important if not more intelligent than I am for me to have to "provide" proof or facts to you.
You are just a little self-absorbed, huh? Wink

Rumours of your Self-Importance have been greatly exaggerated! Big Grin

sleep sleep sleep

Oops! Sorry! I just get bored with the same ole lame perspectives. You've heard one you've heard 'em all!

"just shows you are angry"
"why so much bitterness expressed by you"
"If I [don't] matter why bother replying...?"
Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

The truth is, I have no desire to deal with your ARROGANCE. Or should I say:
Your attempt to assert that what you percieve to be true - about the Black experience, condition, and reality - is "truer" than what Blacks, myself included, "perceive" to be true about their own experience, condition, and reality.


Yeah! Only you, in all your Whiteness, are smart enough to interpret reality. Us poor little Black folks are too emotional (angry, bitter) to be rational enough to know what's going on in our own lives. Thank God for smart White folk like you or we would be lost! Roll Eyes

@#%^#@%^#$&^%&^#%(*!!!

Sorry, this isn't The White Supremacy Network that ProtestWarrior.com is. No one here (and I certainly don't) think that your White Opinion, blind or not, is in anyway "more" accurate than the consensus of what Blacks think of their own reality. You are no more objective, rational, logical, etc.... In fact, it goes without saying (as far as I'm concerned) that you are heavily biased.

What else would bring you here via a topic on PW entitled: "What the Left has done to Black people." Confused

Now, considering that, Why would you expect for me to Dignify your quest for a debate? A debate about what? A debate for you to try to further aSSert that you know more about Black people than they know or will admit about themselves?

Those days are over, my friend!
No matter how much you think you appear differently, your views follow along in a well documented sordid and infamous Ideological Tradition. Same elements, same assertions, same thrust, same conclusions...

You made the following aSSertion, aSSerting your unsolicited, moralistic, Supremist oriented opinion stating what we "SHOULD" do/think as if it would behoove us to follow your advice.... I guess because we "SHOULD" know that YOU "Knows Best":
    It should matter to the black community, since listening to people whine about something like that would just give every hardworking black person a headache, and serves only to undermine the success they are having. Since anyone that wants to can find a job. White, black, retarded, or a felon.
Your aSSertion about 'causes for HEADACHEs' notwithstanding... It's on you to "prove" the aSSertion I highlighted.

Again, the ball is in your court!
Now, YOU PROVE THAT TO ME!

[This message was edited by Nmaginate on December 22, 2003 at 11:33 AM.]
"I have and will not even begin to attempt to "bringing anything logical", factual or anecdotal "to the table" "
Therefore your rants are meaningless, and just tyraids brought on by the fact I had the nerve to post something contradictory to you, me a mere white man trying to have a civil discourse with a black man...the nerve of me? Roll Eyes

"Further, you presume I have something I need to prove to you."
Not really, but I'm getting there because you continue to rant.

"Only you, in all your Whiteness, are smart enough to interpret reality. Us poor little Black folks are too emotional (angry, bitter) to be rational enough to know what's going on in our own lives."
Nice try, but you keep inferring things that are not said or thought. I mean really, twisting something directed at another idividual to be directed at an entire race is just race baiting, and a sign that you just spout anger and no real substance. But once again you show your perceptions have no basis in reality...you percieve I'm some kind of white supremist, you percieve to know what my line of thought isbased on others before me. You are wrapped up in taking comments pointed at you, an induhvidual, from me, an induhvidual. You are the angry bitter one, not your race.

If you want to attack me, attack me on what is said in the text, not what you want to twist it around to mean.

"The truth is, I have no desire to deal with your ARROGANCE"
Yet you continue...maybe it's not arrogance you percieve that seems to keep drawing you back. Maybe it's that you recognize I have a point, and am just just some evil white devil trying to keep a boot on your neck?

"Sorry, this isn't The White Supremacy Network that ProtestWarrior.com is."
It is truley sad that you are so ill-informed.

"What else would bring you here via a topic on PW entitled: "What the Left has done to Black people." "
Read the thread genius. The point of that thread was discussing the wrongs (or what we at PW percieve as wrongs) done to black people by what today is known in the media as the left. The media has twisted left and liberal and right and conservative to be synonymous with Democrat(left) or republican(right) which would explain why left (instead of democrat) is in the title. Organizations started by at least one time democrats (like the KKK for example), segragation in the south by what were largely democrat politicans, are now listed as right wing (which while accurate, they leave off the democrat), while introducing and labeling the republicans right wingers and democrats left wingers for the duration of the story, broadcast etc, clearly misleading people.

"A debate for you to try to further aSSert that you know more about Black people than they know or will admit about themselves?"
I never asserted such a thing, in fact I stated I couldn't know what it felt like to be black. I have no clue what it's like to read the slave journals from a black persons perspective. However, I do know what it feels like to have racial slurs thrown at me, to be the only guy of a different color at a party, hell living in a neighborhood. As I stated before, noone holds a monopoly on injustice.

"Since anyone that wants to can find a job. White, black, retarded, or a felon."

Well as far as proof white people can get a job, well I don't thaink that needs to be proven. Black people get jobs in every sector, denying that shows you haven't been outside in a long time, whether or not they get them due to affirmative action programs or to the fact most people today don't give a damn about your skincolor just whether you are qualified to do the job nowdays, I don't think we can ever truly know. Felons get jobs from their parole officers on release, granted after that, they are usually limited to manufacturing, warehouse, and construction type jobs but what do you expect they are felons. As far as mentally handicapped I've yet to walk into a grocery store or a Wal Mart and not seen one there working, there are also companies that specialize in only the hiring of handicapped individuals for manufacturing and packaging (notice the packaging on a lot of the bookshelfs and desks that are sold today).

By and large, the problem with employment today isn't a racial problem (yes there are some racist hiring managers and companies out there on all sides, but they have been eroded to a minority), it's a lazy problem and a major attitude problem (there are a plethora of I'm owed something, white lazy asses) and it seems to inflict generations of people. People that think something should be handed to them, that somehow everyone should start out on top, the world doesn't work that way no matter who you are, for 99% of the population.

Everything that happens in life is not neccessarily done on the basis of race. The fact that you seem to want to lump white people in one thought line shows perhaps you don't like thinking on people as individuals? Perhaps you yourself are suffering from the same mentality that ignorant people had of your race?
quote:
Originally posted by injury:
"I have and will not even begin to attempt to "bringing anything logical", factual or anecdotal "to the table" "
Therefore your rants are meaningless, and just tyraids brought on by the fact I had the nerve to post something contradictory to you, me a mere white man trying to have a civil discourse with a black man...the nerve of me? Roll Eyes

"Further, you presume I have something I need to prove to you."
Not really, but I'm getting there because you continue to rant.

"Only you, in all your Whiteness, are smart enough to interpret reality. Us poor little Black folks are too emotional (angry, bitter) to be rational enough to know what's going on in our own lives."
Nice try, but you keep inferring things that are not said or thought. I mean really, twisting something directed at another idividual to be directed at an entire race is just race baiting, and a sign that you just spout anger and no real substance. But once again you show your perceptions have no basis in reality...you percieve I'm some kind of white supremist, you percieve to know what my line of thought isbased on others before me. You are wrapped up in taking comments pointed at you, an induhvidual, from me, an induhvidual. You are the angry bitter one, not your race.

If you want to attack me, attack me on what is said in the text, not what you want to twist it around to mean.

"The truth is, I have no desire to deal with your ARROGANCE"
Yet you continue...maybe it's not arrogance you percieve that seems to keep drawing you back. Maybe it's that you recognize I have a point, and am just just some evil white devil trying to keep a boot on your neck?

"Sorry, this isn't The White Supremacy Network that ProtestWarrior.com is."
It is truley sad that you are so ill-informed.

"What else would bring you here via a topic on PW entitled: "What the Left has done to Black people." "
Read the thread genius. The point of that thread was discussing the wrongs (or what we at PW percieve as wrongs) done to black people by what today is known in the media as the left. The media has twisted left and liberal and right and conservative to be synonymous with Democrat(left) or republican(right) which would explain why left (instead of democrat) is in the title. Organizations started by at least one time democrats (like the KKK for example), segragation in the south by what were largely democrat politicans, are now listed as right wing (which while accurate, they leave off the democrat), while introducing and labeling the republicans right wingers and democrats left wingers for the duration of the story, broadcast etc, clearly misleading people.

"A debate for you to try to further aSSert that you know more about Black people than they know or will admit about themselves?"
I never asserted such a thing, in fact I stated I couldn't know what it felt like to be black. I have no clue what it's like to read the slave journals from a black persons perspective. However, I do know what it feels like to have racial slurs thrown at me, to be the only guy of a different color at a party, hell living in a neighborhood. As I stated before, noone holds a monopoly on injustice.

"Since anyone that wants to can find a job. White, black, retarded, or a felon."

Well as far as proof white people can get a job, well I don't thaink that needs to be proven. Black people get jobs in every sector, denying that shows you haven't been outside in a long time, whether or not they get them due to affirmative action programs or to the fact most people today don't give a damn about your skincolor just whether you are qualified to do the job nowdays, I don't think we can ever truly know. Felons get jobs from their parole officers on release, granted after that, they are usually limited to manufacturing, warehouse, and construction type jobs but what do you expect they are felons. As far as mentally handicapped I've yet to walk into a grocery store or a Wal Mart and not seen one there working, there are also companies that specialize in only the hiring of handicapped individuals for manufacturing and packaging (notice the packaging on a lot of the bookshelfs and desks that are sold today).

By and large, the problem with employment today isn't a racial problem (yes there are some racist hiring managers and companies out there on all sides, but they have been eroded to a minority), it's a lazy problem and a major attitude problem (there are a plethora of I'm owed something, white lazy asses) and it seems to inflict generations of people. People that think something should be handed to them, that somehow everyone should start out on top, the world doesn't work that way no matter who you are, for 99% of the population.

Everything that happens in life is not neccessarily done on the basis of race. The fact that you seem to want to lump white people in one thought line shows perhaps you don't like thinking on people as individuals? Perhaps you yourself are suffering from the same mentality that ignorant people had of your race?
And??? YOur PoInT!?? Roll Eyes

You are working under some illusion that I'm soliciting your opinion. Repeatedly, I have told you I AM NOT! What are you going on about?
Why do you think you need to explain or elaborate about?

Why do you think your interpretation of things is of any consequences let alone any relevance to me or anyone here?

THE RUMOURS of your SELF-IMPORTANCE have been greatly OVER-exaggerated!
"By and large, the problem with employment today isn't a racial problem..."

"By and large" what makes you think someone asked you or needs your explanation?

What don't you get about it?
Your interpretations, rationalizations, opinions, etc. are of no consequence. They are irrelevant. They are no unlike much that has been offered, witnessed or heard of before.

You offer nothing new here.
Frankly, I'm tired of the same ole BS from people who have expressed the same opinions you do with much of the same bias.

HINT: Next time don't come in here talking with loaded terms like "whining" and "hardworking"... They give away and hint at untenable presumptions you have.

Don't Let The Door Knob Hit Ya!

[This message was edited by Nmaginate on December 22, 2003 at 12:57 PM.]
Yes it makes it easier to ignore truth, by stating your own self importance, doesn't it?

"You are working under some illusion that I'm soliciting your opinion. Repeatedly, I have told you I AM NOT!"
Yet you keep putting up questions...why would that be.

"By and large" what makes you think someone asked you or needs your explanation?"
Discussion forum ..this topic is employment
, you are quite the rocket scientist aren't you. Or is this supposed to be more of a oneway conversation for you to ramble on to a mute audience, with the hopes that while they don't speak you continue to aSSert that you are correct?

"Your interpretations, rationalizations, opinions, etc. are of no consequence."
They are as much of a consequence as yours are. Granted maybe not to you yourself, but then again thats all you ever speak for, although you do seem to get some kind of complex thinking you are speaking for multitudes of people.

"Frankly, I'm tired of the same ole BS from people who have expressed the same opinions you do with much of the same bias. "
If you are tired then go to sleep, there is no bias here, besides the one in which you lump people different than yourself as somehow being against you.

"HINT: Next time don't come in here talking with loaded terms like "whining" and "hardworking"... They give away and hint at untenable presumptions you have."
that statement and your other comments just shows that you must reside in the former quoted word and not the latter.

"Don't Let The Door Knob Hit Ya!"
Am I going some where?
Note: This is my last post to you.
quote:
"HINT: Next time don't come in here talking with loaded terms like "whining" and "hardworking"... They give away and hint at untenable presumptions you have."
that statement and your other comments just shows that you must reside in the former quoted word and not the latter.

Talk about INFERENCES and ASSUMPTIONS...

Just because you would like something to be a certain way.... so that you can grasp reality a little better, my little friend, just understand that there is no correlation to what you ASSume (like so many others whether PW All-Stars or not).

You have failed to say anything different yet. You can read a script pretty well. You should be proud of yourself! Big Grin

Perhaps you don't won't the title but your whole posture and presumption is one of White Supremacy.

Hint: I'm not talking about David DUke!
- i.e. you think your White opinion about things that pertain to Black people is "right" (aka "superior) most of which is based on the presumption that you are somehow more rational(e) and logical in reaching the conclusions that you do.

ANd I'm sure you would say that has "nothing to do with race"... Roll Eyes


DON'T LET THE DOOR KNOB HIT YA!
" can you provide any other source other than dol (headed by gimpy chao) to bolster your claim and that of this administration? if so, why has greenspan remained so cautious? "

Yes Afrogeek, already have actually. The congressional budget office figures are what BOTH houses of congress use and work off of. Of course, you've been lied to by those who say 3 million jobs were 'lost', since NOWHERE can you find that verifiable statistic, and thats the point here. I've checked the CBO's and Wall streets numbers as well, and nowhere does it say more people were working then than now.

ALL report that:
The employed civilian labor force had 135,999,000 workers during the early days of the recession in January 2001 when Bill Clinton left office. The employed civilian labor force at the end of last month, with the recession long over, was 138,603,000. Those raw numbers show 2.6 million MORE jobs now.



So, when you say "employment gains under bush's administration is hogwash", you should first take a step back and consider that the bigger point here is that there never were 3 million lost in the first place, the economy has steadily been growing, rather than strinking. Can't argue with facts, thats just life. If we have more jobs now than then, well what more is there to say.

Greenspan is cautious when it comes to 'inflation' resulting from the growing money supply, not deflation. And as most of us know, a large number of states had OVER-budgeted, nothing new, just as the federal government had to do. State overspending is a real problem, just as everywhere else, and its the responsibility of the state to not spend too much, or spend what it doesn't have. California is a great example of what happens to a state run amuk with spending.

Don't know anything about any 'windfall', what is that all about? Why would states deserve a 'windfall' for overspending?
Look at the kind of jobs sgt, if you think that is true.....we are back to the time where MBA's are applying for secretary jobs and many who have expensive azz educations are waiters and schit like dat....well, they voted for W because they thought the Clinton-era boom was coincidence.....I think they wanted to go to prosperity without sharing it with blacks....the GOP makes whites feel as if they are "taking their country back"...but even though they are anti-black in terms of policy, they discard lower middle class and poor whites they same.....like 1980-92.......

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