Israel = Jewish Reparations?

ABSOLUTELY!!! No more need be said.

Interesting question...

Even more interesting is the reasons/criteria set that justified or made the rationale for the creation of Israel...

How come mere changes in Germany where Nazis were taken to trial and convicted, etc. were not enough?

quote:

Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
ABSOLUTELY!!! No more need be said.

Ditto.

How come mere changes in Germany where Nazis were taken to trial and convicted, etc. were not enough?---Nmaginate

Because the Jewish lobby hammered FDR for his failure, and therefore the failure of the United States to intervene in Germany in the 1930's.

Truman hold up the cause and sent Dr. Ralph Bunche, an African American-American to negotiate the State of Israel.

The Quid Pro Quo was that Israel had to protect the interests of the United States in the Middle East.

And...the United States would underwrite the effort; forever.

PEACE

Jim Chester

I read somewhere [I wish I could remember where ] that for many world leaders, the US leadership included, the goal in creating Israel was not so much to create a homeland, but to get the Jews out of Europe. Much like white support of the State of Liberia, back in the day, was not to create a homeland, but to rid america of Black folk.

quote:

Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
I read somewhere [I wish I could remember where ] that for many world leaders, the US leadership included, the goal in creating Israel was not so much to create a homeland, but to get the Jews out of Europe. Much like white support of the State of Liberia, back in the day, was not to create a homeland, but to rid america of Black folk.

That was goal of a lot of Europeana, including the Jews in European nations.

If you haven't see the movie 'Exoduc' with Paul Newman and Sal Mineo, you might want to. You are sure to find it enlightenling.

PEACE

Jim Chester

I don't believe that it was intended as reparations for the Jews.

When the UN General Assembly voted to partition Palestine into two states in 1947, ostensibly the partition was intended to end the fighting between the Zionist Militia and the British army, and between the Arabs and Jews.

But I think there was a lot more going on then just this. The General Assembly members all had their own agenda and none of it was altruistic. The British government's hope was that the UN would be unable to arrive at a workable solution and they would regain control of Palestine.

As for the rest of Europe, they had a demonstrated 1500 year history of anti-Semitism, so I doubt that they had any great concern for Jewish reparations, or for Jewish welfare.

And you must consider the secret Husayn-McMahon agreement Britain made in 1915 with the Arabs that was in direct conflict with the Balfour Declaration made 1917. Finally, there is the British betrayal of their promises to the Arabs in 1921. I think a strong case can be made that the current situation in Palestine was a gift to the world from Great Britain.

Publicly, the Jewish leadership accepted the UN partition plan in 1947. The Palestinian Arabs and the surrounding Arab states rejected the plan outright. When the British pulled-out in May of 1948, all-out war between the Arabs and Israelis broke out.

The whole history of the Israeli/Arab conflict is complicated and there are no heroes here. The real losers were the more than 700,000 Muslim, Christian, and Druze people who lost their homes and businesses in 1947-48 and ended-up in refugee camps.

The Palestinians themselves state their case clearly and directly:

"Palestinians do not believe that they should forfeit their land to compensate Jews for Europe's crimes against them."


Source: http://www.merip.org/palestine-israel_primer/toc-pal-isr-primer.html
.
.

"Palestinians do not believe that they should forfeit their land to compensate Jews for Europe's crimes against them."---Popcorn

Clearly, and with your own post, the Palestinians believe someone was being paid for something.

Whether called 'reparations', or not there was bartering going on.

PEACE

Jim Chester

quote:

Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:

Clearly, and with your own post, the Palestinians believe someone was being paid for something.

Whether called 'reparations', or not there was bartering going on.

JWC,

Yes, there always is. Who really knows what went on in all those small, windowless offices between those Imperialist European diplomats.

Politics is such a dirty game that good folks, the ones who really can imagine a better world, don't want to get involved. They don't want to get all covered with filth.

But they're going to have to, or this may well be the "terminal phase of human existence" as Noam Chomsky says it is.

This is a little off-topic, but here is yet another agreement the British made with it's allies in 1916, The Sykes-Picot Agreement:

"The Sykes Picot agreement, concluded in 1916, divided the Middle East into areas of influence for France, Great Britain and others, giving the French control over modern Syria and Lebanon. Most of Palestine was to have been under international control. Though the agreement mentions the possibility of cessions by either side to an Arab state, it in fact made it impossible for Great Britain to honor the promises made by Sir Henry McMahon to Sheriff Hussayn in 1915"

So here you have three different secret or semi-secret agreements the British made that were mutually exclusive:

1) 1915, Hussayn-McMahon Agreement - In exchange for Arab help in fighting the Turks, the British agreed to help create a Arab Palestinian state at the end of WWI. This is where Lawrence of Arabia and all that comes in.

2) 1916, Sykes Picot Agreement – Great Britain, France, and others agreed to divide-up the Middle East, which at that time was part of the Ottoman Empire (Turkey) who had entered WWI against Britain, on the side of Germany-Austria.

3) 1917 Balfour Agreement – "Having made promises to the Arabs and the French, the British government was now to make a third contradictory declaration to the leading Zionists of Great Britain". In essence, the British agreed to help in the establishment of a Jewish State in Palestine in exchange for Jewish support in WWI.

Following the end of WWI, starting in 1921, the British betrayed their promise to the Arabs, who had helped fight the Turks. On paper at least, they betrayed their promise to the Jews, also. However, they did start to allow Jewish immigration to Palestine in 1925, with the idea of eventually creating a Jewish State.

The British did, of course, keep their promises to themselves and France and divided-up the Middle East. The Arabs were left-out and felt righteously betrayed.

And so, here we are in 2005, with 60 years of killing, bombing, hatred, and lies behind us with no end in sight. And as I said, there are no heroes here, just villains and victims. The big losers were the 700,000 plus people who lost there land, homes, businesses, hope and freedom in 1947-48.

And IMHO, the current state of affairs in the Middle East can be laid squarely on the doorstep of Imperialist Great Britain, as can the state of affairs between Pakistan and India.

And of course, there was the affair of Vietnam, which can be laid on the doorstep of Imperialist France. And the good old U.S., stumbled, blundered, bungled it's way into that one at the cost of 55,000 dead Americans and over one million dead Vietnamese.

European Imperialism in the latter half of the 19th century and early part of the 20th century has been the bane of mankind. It destroyed indigenous populations without a thought and setup the framework of conflicts that are with us today.

And so, reparation for the Jews? Who knows. With all that was going on, who really knows?

Source: http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm
Source: http://www.merip.org/palestine-israel_primer/toc-pal-isr-primer.html
.
.

And so, reparation for the Jews? Who knows. With all that was going on, who really knows?---Popcorn

I don't. But it is something.

You realize of course that what you are discribing is death throes of the The British Empire. From the Boar War in the Far Easht (China) to the Salt March in India, Great Britain was fighting to maintain.

I still think what the United States maintains with Israel is an economic alliance sustained with the tools of war.

And I too stray off-point to say, we need to apply the same recongition to long-term policies maintained by the United States. Jim Crow Law controlling the access to the vote of African American-Americans belongs in America's Game Plan.

When we force America out of this control position there will be a paradigm-shift in the protocols of economics for the world.

PEACE

Jim Chester

Question for Popcorn... and anyone else.
Popcorn you seem to have a good grasp on quite broad spectrum politics, and I noticed you quoted Noam Chomsky.

I'm quite keen to read some of his books, but quite frankly, I seem to have so many books and not enough time - or brainspace - to read them in so I wondered if you could suggest any particular title of his as a good 'starting point'?

He's written quite a few books... should I just jump in and go with his most recent publication?

quote:

Originally posted by art_gurl:
Question for Popcorn... and anyone else.
Popcorn you seem to have a good grasp on quite broad spectrum politics, and I noticed you quoted Noam Chomsky.

I'm quite keen to read some of his books, but quite frankly, I seem to have so many books and not enough time - or brainspace - to read them in so I wondered if you could suggest any particular title of his as a good 'starting point'?

He's written quite a few books... should I just jump in and go with his most recent publication?

AG,

I wish I could claim to be an authority on Noam Chomsky, but I'm not. Actually, I don't think anyone except Noam Chomsky is. He's in a league of his own... one of the best modern thinkers of our time (IMHO).

Most of what I know about him, I've learned from the Internet. And I'm ashamed to admit, that I'm just now reading my first book of his. It's his most recent (I think) called "Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global Dominance"

Since I have not read any of his other books, I can't compare or say that this is the best place to start.

This book is NOT a favorable portrayal of the U.S. But I think it's accurate. Also, it's a little scary in that it makes you think that perhaps we are in the final days of human existance.

For example, the Pentagon has known since 1974 (recently de-classified and available through the Freedom of Information Act) that there is no way to stop the spread of Nuclear Weapons. Also, they said it was just a matter of time before a nuclear devise falls into the hands of terrorists. Anyway, U.S. policy is only contributing to all of this and making it more likely.

But, as I said, it's the first book I've read of his and it seems like a good one to me. But maybe someone who has read more or his stuff can advise you better than I can.

I visited Australia and drove from Sydney to Melbourne to Adelaide, across the Nullarbor Plain to Perth and back to Brisbane. It was the best eight months of my life and I want to do it again. Australian people... I can't say enough good things about them. I didn't want to return to the U.S. Anyway, next time I'm doing the Northern part of Australia. Flying to Brisbane, buying a car and heading for Darwin along the Northern coast.

And how come Australians make such great films? I just saw "Rabbit Proof Fence". What a great film.
.
.

That's very generous Popcorn, and I'm really glad you had a great time over here.

I haven't been across the Nullabor yet... did you drive along the Great Ocean Road along the coast from Melbourne to South Australia - and see the 12 Apostles (well only 11 now, one fell into the sea a few weeks back)? It is beautiful - natural, raw and no freakin McDonalds, Krispy Kremes or Starbucks within coo-ee, lol! Just rugged, unspoilt coastline and small empty beaches and striking rock formations.

Yep, you should visit here again!

Northern Australia is beautiful - Kadadu is very tropical and Darwin is very cosmopolitan with a mix of 'ferals' unemployed people; indigenous Australians; rednecks (yep); Aussie bush guys; and a lot of Asian culture as well.

If you can get to Uluru, that is a magical place. The Red Centre you need to fly too - the deserts around it are too vast and dangerous - but it has such a wonderful 'soul'. The soil is red, and the stars enormous and the sky seems to hang just over your head.

I travelled through Kakadu a few years ago, but haven't been to the Alice Springs centre for a very long time. I have 'fond' memories of having too good a time near Uluru, with colourful consequences.

I have some info on indigenous tours if you ever need it.

Yes. We make some great films here too. Phillip Noyce made Rabbit Proof Fence - I think he works mainly out of the US these days, but he came out here to film, and scouted for the 3 'unknown' girls out of schools here. So the girls had no previous acting experience at all.

We make some other good films and have a very health short filmmaking tradition here. I guess coz most people here have a lot to say, lol.

quote:

Originally posted by art_gurl:

That's very generous Popcorn, and I'm really glad you had a great time over here.

Hi AG,

Oh, I had forgotten about the 12 Apostles. I just read on the Internet that there are only 8 left now. When we were there, all 12 were still standing (I think, I didn't count them)

But yes, all of that... along Great Ocean Road to Port Campbell then to Portland, Kingston, Victoria Harbor, and then Adelaide. We stayed in Adelaide a month. We did it on the cheap, staying in youth hostels and caravan parks.

I just check Amazon on the popularity of Noam Chomsky books and "Hegemony or Survival" seems to be popular. But a lot of what he says pisses people off here in the States. They don't like the truth.

Also, it is scary stuff, some of things he brings up. The whole book is referenced with footnotes. For example, he says there have been about fifty billion species that have lived on earth and that the average lifespan is about 100,000 years. So, about at the end of the road.

Another thing... we like to think intelligence is such a big factor in survival and longevity, but it isn't. A lot of species that we believe are stupid have been around millions and millions of years.

Anyway, not to be read if you're feeling depressed.

Some of the things he says scare me but I know they're true. Like this,

"Consider the declaration of the National Securities Strategy on, September 17, 2002. It announced very clearly and explicitly that the United States, at least this administration, intends to dominate the world permanently, if necessary, through the use of force. It's the one dimension in which the United States reigns completely supreme, probably now outspends the rest of the world combined or close to it in military expenditure, is far ahead in developing advanced and extremely dangerous technology. And it also announced that it will eliminate any potential challenge to that rule. So, it's to be permanent hegemony. It was correct for World reaction to this announcement to be as extreme as it was, including the foreign policy elite here."

He goes on to say that under the NSS of September 17,2002, "Aggression is an option reserved for the U.S., and possibly some of it's clients".

Anyway, I've about had it with the U.S. It's never going to change. I want to spend the remaining years of my life in a peaceful nation. We argue on this BB and it helps, but U.S. policy towards minorities and other nations will never change. And we have all these insane power-hungry asshole over here running around with WMD that they can use. Just MHO.
.
.

Anyway, I've about had it with the U.S. It's never going to change. I want to spend the remaining years of my life in a peaceful nation. We argue on this BB and it helps, but U.S. policy towards minorities and other nations will never change. And we have all these insane power-hungry asshole over here running around with WMD that they can use. Just MHO.---Popcorn

A good thing about the U. S. is that you do have a choice.

For one being so 'fed up', may I raise the issue of identity with you? I am assuming you are an American of unknown African ancestry.

Have you ever considered a uniqueness for who you are?

This entire issue about Israel is about the uniqueness of a people and their claim to land they say belongs to them in preference to all others.

In spite of having lost wars in trying to keep it.

Notably, Nebekanezer (a 'black' man by the way)

How do you define your ethnicity?

PEACE

Jim Chester

quote:

Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:

A good thing about the U. S. is that you do have a choice.

And there are many other peaceful countries in the world where you have a "choice", also. It is a mistake to believe that "choice" is unique to the U.S.

Our "choice" here is eroded day after day after day, as the media becomes more consolidated into the hands of corporations that spoon feed us what they want us to believe. These corporations care for nothing except acquiring wealth.

And here, where "gerrymandering" of congressional districts by both Republicans and Democrats has become so much a part of our political landscape that only 40 plus seats in the 2004 Congressional Elections were actual "contested". Or was it 80? But that's out of 436 districts. In many, many congressional districts the dominant party candidate ran unopposed. Choice?

Where corporations skirt campaign contribution limits in a multitude of way, including "encouraging" (a euphemism for "do it or there will be consequences") employees to make political contributions to selected politicians; where corporate money buys and sells the people we elect to represent us. This is democracy?

And pleeeze! "You have the power. Get out and vote"? I live in a congressional district that has been so gerrymandered that the Democratic candidate has run unopposed for the last three elections.

Someone may argue, so what? What's new? What's new is the destructive power we now have, the power to kill all on this planet. And the pursuit of WMD goes unabated in the U.S. and there's nothing we can do about it because we have no real power.

Laser Canons in New Mexico that can destroy satellites, nanorobotics weapons in California that can be programmed to kill just a select group of people, nuclear bombs the size of a thermos that are 10 times as powerful as the bombs that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, particle accelerator weapons, and the list goes on. And this is only what has become publicly known. What else is the U.S. or other countries secretly working on that is unimaginable to us?

And who is all this for? You, me? Hardly! It's to protect wealth and property. Nothing more. Human life is a secondary consideration, "collateral damage".

Getting close to 400 Billion spend in Iraq. What is the alternative cost of all this killing, the real cost? It is hundreds of schools, hundreds of hospitals, thousands of social programs, help for West Africa where the U.S. has only suddenly taken an interest because there are large reserves of oil, help for the poor and indigent of the world. That is the alternative cost, the real cost. And that is just the material cost. The human cost in incalculable.

Supporter of Ronald Reagan like to claim that we "won" the cold war. There were no FUCKING WINNERS! Only losers. An estimated three trillon dollars spent just by the U.S. in the forty years of the "cold war". What is the alternative cost of that?

I used to naively believe in the basic goodness of mankind; I no longer do.

We are entering a phase of world history where arguments of race, equality, justice are fast becoming irrelevant. They are becoming moot against the background of universal destruction.
(sorry, AG).

Like it or not, we are living in an aggressor, terrorist nation that was spelled-out in the paragraphs of the National Securities Strategy declaration on, September 17, 2002. That we have been a terrorist nation in one form or another for 400 years is probably true. But what was unique about NSS-2002 is that it was put on paper and openly declared. We will destroy any nation or group that threatens our hegemony. Period, end of story.

Obviously, there are many who think this is great thing. Like CF and his evil arguments of "living under the protection of America's WMD". Well, I don't like it, I don't need it, and I'm not one of them. I'm passionate about this. Since Bush took office, I no longer like being an American, being part of a nation of bullies that globally terrorize other people.

And this cannot be challenged on some personal irrelevancy; I lead a simple life; I drive a twelve year old car, I don't have a television connection, I live in a modest two-bedroom fifty-eight year-old house, I have few possessions. My only extravagances are art, music, and my books.

Sorry for the outburst, JWC. I know you are a man of peace. But I am passionate about injustice and anything that diminishes another human being's life.

Have you read Arundhati Roy? She is Indian intellectual perhaps on par with Noam Chomsky. The point is that there are too many people far more intelligent than I am who are saying these things. Too, too many.
.
.

"The fact is that America's weapons systems have made it impossible for anybody to confront it militarily. So, all you have is your wits and your cunning, and your ability to fight in the way the Iraqis are fighting." - Arundhati Roy
.

"People are so isolated, and so alone, and so suspicious, and so competitive with each other. What's the use of having fifty percent of the world's wealth if you live this pathetic, terrified life?" - Arundhati Roy
.

"It's very, very important to understand that war is the result of a flawed peace. We must understand that the resistance movement in Iraq is a resistance movement that all of us have to support, because it's our war, too." - Arundhati Roy
.

"Our species has certainly developed the capacity to destroy itself, and a hypothetical extraterrestrial observer might well conclude that humans have demonstrated that capacity throughout their history, and dramatically so in the last hundred years, with an assault on the environment that sustains life, an assault on the diversity of more complex organisms, and cold, calculated savagery on each other." – Noam Chomsky
.
.

I hope your comments throw up lots of responses.
I'm rushed for time and off to work.

But something to consider is, that as a woman, you do have more power than you think.

- the power to give life (if you choose)

- the power to influence those around you (incl. other women with children)

- and the ability to multi-task

- resillience!

PEACE IS, IS, IS, IS POSSIBLE. And it is everyone's responsibility.

Yes, choice.

I choose not to run.

I choose to not abandon the hope of my parents. They, as well as, my grandparents had to choice to run, and chose to fight. It wasn't because they didn't know how to run.

My grandparents CHOSE not to run to Liberia.

My parents CHOSE not to get on the boat with Marcus Garvey.

I, and my family, have too much invested in African America to run.

I didn't run when life got very tense in the late 1960s. I thought about it very seriously. My wife and I discussed it.

I didn't run a few years later when my wife screamed my name awakening me when she discovered and 8-ft cross leaning against our back door.

To suggest I don't have a choice now is unacceptable.

And the reason I run now would be because of....what?

Inner peace.

By the way, I am not a 'man of peace'.

I'll fight.

I've fought, when necessary, probably for more years than you know; not doing that generation thing.

You fight when you need to not just because you can.

Choosing to stay here and to claim my heritage is a choice to fight.

Neither Arundhati Roy, nor Noam Chomsky address my needs which are coincidental with the needs of African America.

It sounds like you have sublimated who you are into some 'greater essence' which ignores the reality of your uniqueness.

When you need them, neither Roy nor Chomsky will be there.

We will.

PEACE

Jim Chester

quote:

Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:

It sounds like you have sublimated who you are into some 'greater essence' which ignores the reality of your uniqueness.

I will never say anything to demish another's experiences. I speak only for myself.

There has been no change. I am no more unique then a child starving to death in Niger. Dream on!

The child who will die in Niger while I'm typing this has more to offer the world then I do.

For those who support this government and it's policies of destruction, ask this government to spend just a billion of what it will spend in Iraq on killing and send it to Niger instead. It will save thousands from starvation.

Ask, and see what they say! This is the government we live with. These are our "choices".

Be sure and point out to them that they can then spend the other seventy-nine billion or whatever the fuck it is on killing.

Arundhati Roy and Noam Chomsky will not be there for me. No one will "be there".

Yes, I have a choice. And my choice, if it comes to that and is possible, is to leave. And in this also, I am not unique.

But there's no place for me to run anymore, JWC. America's WMD have made sure of that. My only choice is to disassociate myself from the tyranny of this culture of distruction.
.
.

.
.
And is there much difference between what was done to Black folks for 400 years and what we are now doing to other nationalities? Is there?

We don't own them in the legal sense, but we destroy their families, we steal there economic bounty, we kill, rape, and torture them. They live in constant fear of us.

If I want to see a slave-master, I look in the fucking mirror.

That's how "unique" I feel at the moment.
.
.

hiya Popcorn,
I'm thinking you're swinging between on-fire and numb right now?

Listen gurl, that is fine, means you are conscious!

You are very unique, and you have choices. We all make our own choices - and that has nothing to do with anyone but ourselves.

I'm tossing out two books which might be a good diversion - not distraction - diversion.

I'll copy in the reviews in case the titles put you off, lol sorry I don't have the ISBN's for these but you might find them on Amazon if you're interested.

These are not African American or (JWC ) African American-American...

WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN - Imaginary History from Twelve Leading Historians edited by Andrew Roberts.
Throughout history great and terrrible events have often hinged upon luck. Roberts has asked a team of 12 leading historians and biographers what might have happened if major world events had gone differently - each concentrating on the areaa in which they are a leading authority. Whether it's Stalin fleeing Moscow in 1941 or Napoleon not being forced to retreat from it in 1812, the events covered here are important world-changing ones. As an indicator, the cover shows the first astronaut on the moon sticking a Nazi flag on it.

HOPE IN THE DARK by Rebecca Solnit.
Multi-award-winning columnist, author and activist Rebecca Solnit traces a history of political engagement and social change over the past 5 decades. Chronicling recent breakthroughs - from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the Zapatista uprising in Mexico, to Seattle in 19999, to the worldwide marches against the war in Iraq - Solnit explores the progession of social change. Drawing from thinkers of the last century - Woolfe, Ghandi, Borges, Benjamin, Havel, amongst others - Hope In the Dark is a manifesto for optimism and a meditation on hope.

You may/may not find this useful.

I think you might be (rightly so) suffering from 'Politics Fatigue.' Even though GW is not the best school prefect to have, there is resistance, and America is not the only place - or power - on the planet. You DO have more choices living there than some other places on the planet, eg. women in politics in India. Use your choices as you see fit.

quote:

Originally posted by Popcorn:
.
.
And is there much difference between what was done to Black folks for 400 years and what we are now doing to other nationalities? Is there?

We don't own them in the legal sense, but we destroy their families, we steal there economic bounty, we kill, rape, and torture them. They live in constant fear of us.

If I want to see a slave-master, I look in the fucking mirror.

That's how "unique" I feel at the moment.
.
.

That is the reality, and duality, of who you are.


I think it is very healthy that know you are indeed in control of who you are.

I also think it is unfortunate that you seem to have 'fixed' on responisbility as an American to determine your life.

Surely you know you have absolutely no control over that phase of your reality.

You, at least, have a chance with your circumstance as an African American.

For one thing, YOU can define who you are in a manner that gives you parity with the defintions of all other Americans.

Wherever else you go on this planet, you will have no more control over the behavior of your newly adopted land than you have here.

Moreover, you will always be an American in the eyes of your adopted brethren, and in fact always an African American-American.

Like it or lump it, you will always be seen as such in the eyes of others.

Even when you don't/won't profess such on your own.

You realize of course that 'black' will offer you absolutely no distinction anywhere in the world; including the United States.

That's life.

PEACE

Jim Chester

But there's no place for me to run anymore, JWC. America's WMD have made sure of that. My only choice is to disassociate myself from the tyranny of this culture of distruction.---Popcorn

Why run at all?

You are assuming the mantel of a system that does not include you as being integral to its 'responsible parties.'

You are taking on responsibility that has been judged to be, and has been placed, 'beyond you'.

Your opinion is ask with a smirk.

Your input is dismissed in every facet of your everyday life. And here I am referring to input as a people.

Your personal expertise will be recognized whenever and wherever it benefits the system, and you will be given personal rewards; e.g. salary, benefits, perks, etc.

You are carrying a burden you cannot lift.

You haven't even been asked to lift it.

You aren't even expected to lift it.

You are demanding more of yourself than even God will reward you for.

PEACE

Jim Chester

Just for balance, I thought I'd post something 'positive' from Noam Chomsky...
well as positive as he can be anyway.

"The world is pretty awful today, but it is far better than yesterday, not only with regard to unwillingess to tolerate agression, (some of us, anyway) but also in many other ways, which we now tend to take for granted".

Just for balance...

As predicted, the war in Iraq increased the threat of global terror. Middle East expert Fawaz Gerges found it "simply unbelievable how the war has revived the appeal of a global jihadi Islam that was in real decline after 9-11". Recruitment for the Al Qaeda networks increased, while Iraq itself became a "terrorist haven" for the first time. Suicide attacks for just the year 2003 reached the highest level in modern times; Iraq, suffered its first suicide attacks since the thirteenth century. Substantial specialist opinion concluded that the war also led to the proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction.

As the first bombs fell on Baghdad, Arthur Schlesinger recalled FDR's words following the bombing of Pearl Harbor, "a date that will live in infamy".

Now it is Americans who will live in infamy, Schlesinger concluded, as our government adopts the policies of imperial Japan. George Bush, he added, has managed to convert a "global wave of sympathy" for the U.S. following 9-11, into a "global wave of hatred of American arrogance and militarism".

No! You're not who you say you are. You are what you do!

We live in a village contaminated with dysentery, and we sit down with them and eat their food.
.
.

quote:

Originally posted by Popcorn:
Just for balance...

if I was a cheeky git, I'd say you mean 'just for imbalance' ?
meaning GW, his manifesto, and his band of merry evil men. oh, and one woman.