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This has been a topic in the past that I have discussed with others.

We are being told that women out number the men and that women over a certain age - I think 30 something - are more likley to be struck by lighting (or something like that)

So do you think the poor prospect for black women is due to a shortage?
_______________________ "Morality cannot be legislated but behaviour can be regulated. Judicial decrees may not change the heart but they can restrain the heartless." Martin Luther King.
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I think its due to a shortage of good decision making.

Its a damn shame when I KNOW FOR A FACT, that a convict, and "thug" will get picked over me by a woman about 70% of the time in todays culture. Yeah, these sorry ass men are making it hard for black women and hard for "good black men"..but these sorry ass men are getting picked by women who KNOW what these dudes have done/are doing/ and will do. The majority of these women are ones complaining about a shortage. Depressing....
I have no statistics behind me ... but, I think in a way this question could be answered with a yes. Not all the Black men in prison are "bad". But they are very much not accessible, due to long, inappropriate sentences and/or just getting caught up in the system. Also, for women my age, we had the Vietnam war that took thousands of Black men out of the equation for our consideration.

Coupled with the fact many (not all) men don't really mature until they get older (older than the women that are ready for them!), the "good" in a man just might not have come out yet! Smile

However, I would like to say that I believe there are many "good men" that are ruined by "bad women" early on and that has a tendency to fudge the numbers too! Believe it or not, we (women) don't always know everything!! Of course, that's rare, but ... Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
I think its due to a shortage of good decision making.

Its a damn shame when I KNOW FOR A FACT, that a convict, and "thug" will get picked over me by a woman about 70% of the time in todays culture. Yeah, these sorry ass men are making it hard for black women and hard for "good black men"..but these sorry ass men are getting picked by women who KNOW what these dudes have done/are doing/ and will do. The majority of these women are ones complaining about a shortage. Depressing....

Right and wrong GAMBIT. There are alot of MATURE Black women in the world that is looking for a nice Black Man that has something going for them; the ones that are not mature enough to understand that are the ones that wants the thug life, until they realize something wonderful came and pass them by.
When addressing this issue the first thing usually done is to quote some statistic to validate the notion that woman outnumber men. There is a saying, "there are 3 types of lies - lies, dam lies, and statistics." For every statistic supposedly proving one thing there are statistics to show the opposite. I'm not saying this information isn't accurate or reliable just don't believe the hype. For example, I recall a person saying that they wanted marriage but were worried about having a successful marriage. They quoted some statistic that 48 percent of marriages fail. Talk about looking at the class and saying it's half empty. Look at the positive side! If 48 percent fail, that means 52 percent are successful meaning more marriages are succeeding. Once again, DON'T BELIVE THE HYPE! In addition, why be so naive to think that every marriage will or should be successful or that everyone should be married. That's not realistic.

So with that said, is there a shortage? The answer is yes and no. Realistically there are probably more women than men. But what does this mean – really? It means nothing in my book. I think that one of the problems is the way this question is asked "Is there a shortage of good black men?" What is a good black man anyway? There are plenty available black men, but are they good? That's relative, as are many things in life, to the individual. One woman's Prince Charming is another woman's Scrub. Such is life. And that is why there is a perception that there are few good black men.

Statistics show (I know, I know) that on average there are more black women getting their college education than black men. I personally run into more women working on or who have finished their Masters Degree. And it is my personal opinion that most women look to find a partner who is at or above them in regards to there social status. I hear women say, "I want a man who has a sense of humor, loving, kind, etc." But what they really mean is "I want a man who has a sense of humor, loving, kind, AND is on the same level with me." I really don't see a woman who has worked to get her PhD marrying Joe the policeman. I'm not saying that it doesn't or can't happen and it can't be successful, but I think we need to face reality.

So for some women then, yes there are fewer and fewer good prospects for a partner that will be a good match for them. I recently had a talk with one of my female friend who is having a similar problem. She has recently obtained her undergrad and hopes to go to graduate school. Her current love interest is a brother who is a little younger than her, and, who for the most part, is still working to get it together. He has no college education and is not currently pursing it either. He seems to be job hopping, trying to find something that he can be happy doing. Basically, when I listen to her talk about the problems of the relationship I hear, "he's cute and really nice, but he needs to get it together." And she keeps falling for the same types of brothers. They have qualities that attract her but there's nothing to keep it because, in my opinion, they are at different levels or stages in their lives.

Then there is the fact that in corporate America there are few blacks especially professionals and especially men. I should know I'm a black man and I'm usually one of few blacks. This also means we sometimes move in social circles where there are few blacks, unless we belong to black organizations, which I have also found to have more black women then men as members. So it appears the more educated and the higher up the corporate ladder you go the fewer good prospects there are for a serious relationship.

Add to this the fact that many women are limiting their option for a good man by creating narrow criteria for men. Many of these women have what I once heard called ˜Love Scripts'. A man has to be this age, height, have this career, have never been married, have no children - even thought this doesn't always apply to them. This also helps to foster this notion of there being few good black men. Some of these desired qualities women seek are reasonable but sometimes some of them are not. And these women need to take this into consideration. I'm not saying to settle or compromise a great deal, but to check themselves.

I think all in all that women have legitimate complaints. Brothers are not taking care of business. To many are not focused. They are not seeking to BE THE good black MAN but rather ACT like the good black man.

So there is no REAL shortage of good black men, but rather a misperception, and a willingness to buy into this notion simply because some women are unwilling to rethink their standards coupled with the fact that black women are out pacing black men in obtaining higher education and moving up the corporate ladder. So how can we fix this? Well, the first step is to improve and increase the communication between African-American men and women in and outside of relationships. Second would be to make it the objective of African-Americans to focusing on raising young black men of today to be the good black men of tomorrow. But then we may have to ask what and how do you define a good black man?
I think there is a shortage of quality people from all walks of life. Many people have strayed from their ethical responsibilities and obligations opting instead to allow greed and corruption to become their motivation.

For every "thug", I can show you a "hoochie". The difference is that "thugs" and "hoochies" have no problems finding each other as they frequent the same sort of establishments in many cases and perhaps live in the same neighborhoods. They don't have a list of "pre-requisites" prefering to just live in the now; allowing tomorrow to simply take care of itself.

Many of us are a bit different as we have far more to lose in relationships and the pain of former relationships have left many of us jaded. We don't take as many risks and we guard our hearts, bank accounts, and "stuff" ferociously. That is not a negative - merely an observation.

Shortage? Not really. IMHO, one of the major problems is logistics. Quality people are out there, the problem is locating one another. We work very hard all day, perhaps stop at the gym or get our shop on on the way home, and then retreat to our residences to prepare for the next day. Some of us attend church or other organizations, but as we know, those are woefully inadequate "meet n greet" spots. Quality people are not going to knock on my door and say "I am a quality Black man ... would you like to go out?"

We have to get out and start living our lives and become the people of destiny that we are designed to be and give less thought to who and what else is out there. IMHExperience, since my self-removal from the "available" list, I have been approached more times than I ever imagined possible. Perhaps when we stop looking for love from without and concentrate on loving ourselves from within, external love comes looking for us.

Perhaps men can sense the "neediness" that some of us portray and don't respond well to that. Perhaps men can sense the "over confidence" that some of us portray and are intimidated by that. As I have stated many times, I am no expert on the matter, but perhaps we need to expand our horizons. I have learned that the gentleman who drives the truck that picks up the garbage on my street has far more substance and is a much nicer person in general than the "professional" asshole who rents the office suite next to mine.
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
I think its due to a shortage of good decision making.

Its a damn shame when I KNOW FOR A FACT, that a convict, and "thug" will get picked over me by a woman about 70% of the time in todays culture. Yeah, these sorry ass men are making it hard for black women and hard for "good black men"..but these sorry ass men are getting picked by women who KNOW what these dudes have done/are doing/ and will do. The majority of these women are ones complaining about a shortage. Depressing....



Could it be possible, that you are picking women, that like thugs?

It seems to me, when men say this......its because they are all attracted to the same type of woman.........and we all know, there are many types from which to chose.



Just a thought! Smile
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
I think its due to a shortage of good decision making.

Its a damn shame when I KNOW FOR A FACT, that a convict, and "thug" will get picked over me by a woman about 70% of the time in todays culture. Yeah, these sorry ass men are making it hard for black women and hard for "good black men"..but these sorry ass men are getting picked by women who KNOW what these dudes have done/are doing/ and will do. The majority of these women are ones complaining about a shortage. Depressing....



Could it be possible, that you are picking women, that like thugs?

It seems to me, when men say this......its because they are all attracted to the same type of woman.........and we all know, there are many types from which to chose.



Just a thought! Smile


Oh no. I go out of my way to avoid women that overtly state that they like that mentallity in a man. I'm not one to go chasing after women. I like to hang back in the shadows so to speak. But it is a fact today that, the dude who is trying his best to be a G-unit clone has the advantage because of some misguided view of what most women think they want in a man. And I'll never be able to explain this thing with convicts...WHILE STILL IN JAIL NO LESS..that just kills me. *shaking my head*
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
This has been a topic in the past that I have discussed with others.

We are being told that women out number the men and that women over a certain age - I think 30 something - are more likley to be struck by lighting (or something like that)

So do you think the poor prospect for black women is due to a shortage?


women should know that, for the most part, their desireability amongst the single menfolk drop significantly after the age of 30. She needs to adjust her 'game' to these facts
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
This has been a topic in the past that I have discussed with others.

We are being told that women out number the men and that women over a certain age - I think 30 something - are more likley to be struck by lighting (or something like that)

So do you think the poor prospect for black women is due to a shortage?


Depends of what you mean by "good" Black men. SOME women on this forum think "good" means a Black man who would never ever consider dating anyone outside the Black race...

Then again this same "good" man isn't really "good" at all because SOME women think ALL Black men are stupid and gay. ::rolling eyes::

Back on topic...

I don't think there's necessarily a shortage. Maybe they are in hiding (damn, can you blame 'em?). Maybe some women aren't looking in the right places. Maybe more women need to step up to the plate and be women for a change, instead of being so damn stuck up, picky, goldiggerish, inconsiderate, selfish, and unloving.

Then again there might be a ridiculously serious shortage...who really knows?
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
I think its due to a shortage of good decision making.

Its a damn shame when I KNOW FOR A FACT, that a convict, and "thug" will get picked over me by a woman about 70% of the time in todays culture. Yeah, these sorry ass men are making it hard for black women and hard for "good black men"..but these sorry ass men are getting picked by women who KNOW what these dudes have done/are doing/ and will do. The majority of these women are ones complaining about a shortage. Depressing....


good point. drug dealers and other criminals always seem to have numerous women around them.
There is absolutely a shortage. Those that deny it are doing so because the consequences are far sweeping and longer lasting than they want to admit. Note that when Head Start was at its height, the number of Black men to be incarcerated when down when the Head Start group came of age. Why? Educated and or Employed Black men take care of thier families. Incarerated and or Unemployed Black men can't do that.
quote:
good point. drug dealers and other criminals always seem to have numerous women around them.


Yes. But then does this make them good women. I hate to say it but we seem to be assuming that these women who are alone are good candidates.
Maybe more women need to step up to the plate and be women for a change, instead of being so damn stuck up, picky, goldiggerish, inconsiderate, selfish, and unloving.
quote:
Originally posted by Sandye:
I think there is a shortage of quality people from all walks of life.


can't let this piece of spectacular insight go without credit. kiss
correct!
and who is responsible for that? each of us is responsible for our damn selves. be the best 'whoever we are we can be' end of story.
it's a big beautiful world full of beautiful people. soul connects with soul. at least that's the way I see it.
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quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
quote:
good point. drug dealers and other criminals always seem to have numerous women around them.


Yes. But then does this make them good women. I hate to say it but we seem to be assuming that these women who are alone are good candidates.
Maybe more women need to step up to the plate and be women for a change, instead of being so damn stuck up, picky, goldiggerish, inconsiderate, selfish, and unloving.


Lol, my sentiments exactly. Razz
quote:
Originally posted by Sandye:
Many of us are a bit different as we have far more to lose in relationships and the pain of former relationships have left many of us jaded. We don't take as many risks and we guard our hearts, bank accounts, and "stuff" ferociously. That is not a negative - merely an observation.


That firm defensiveness that some women develop is the obstacle that keeps away both men of bad intentions as well as men of good intentions.

I understand that women shield their vulnerabilities so that it won't be exploited by the wrong person, but that guard keeps everyone out.

Women of other ethnicities have not experienced relationship trauma to the same degree as the black woman, that's why they are initially more open, unassuming and free-spirited than the black woman. Women of other ethnicities have not been conditioned into expecting the very worst from relationships like the black woman has.

The black woman is not too far gone, but what's the remedy? How can this be eradicated?
Since the misguided black man brought about this problem, should the conscience black man who is convicted to the black woman pay for and correct the indiscretions of others? Is it the black mans responsibility to convince the black woman that it's o.k. to trust? Can it be done without compromising his own dignity? Or is it the responsibility of the black woman herself to deal with and overcome any trust issues that she might be having?
quote:
Originally posted by detroit1:
quote:
Originally posted by Sandye:
Many of us are a bit different as we have far more to lose in relationships and the pain of former relationships have left many of us jaded. We don't take as many risks and we guard our hearts, bank accounts, and "stuff" ferociously. That is not a negative - merely an observation.


That firm defensiveness that some women develop is the obstacle that keeps away both men of bad intentions as well as men of good intentions.

I understand that women shield their vulnerabilities so that it won't be exploited by the wrong person, but that guard keeps everyone out.

Women of other ethnicities have not experienced relationship trauma to the same degree as the black woman, that's why they are initially more open, unassuming and free-spirited than the black woman. Women of other ethnicities have not been conditioned into expecting the very worst from relationships like the black woman has.

The black woman is not too far gone, but what's the remedy? How can this be eradicated?
Since the misguided black man brought about this problem, should the conscience black man who is convicted to the black woman pay for and correct the indiscretions of others? Is it the black mans responsibility to convince the black woman that it's o.k. to trust? Can it be done without compromising his own dignity? Or is it the responsibility of the black woman herself to deal with and overcome any trust issues that she might be having?


You both raise good points. Speaking from the sidelines, these are the big questions - trust and security - when it comes to relationships. I hear and feel exactly what Sandye is saying.

I also think age comes into it too, as it's easier to experiment and move on when you're in your 20-30s. There can be less flexibility externally as well due to job commitments, immigration age cut offs if you want to relocate, start over, etc.

There is less financial certainty for both genders work-wise when it comes to 40+. So financial security is on the agenda.

Trust is everything, in all areas. Emotionally, financially, ethically. For me the 50/50 relationship has always worked the best. By that I mean each person aiming to contribute and work toward an equal commitment, or if you like, an equal shared responsibility.

Circumstances can change, but I believe it's essential for couples to work toward finding a balance.

There's no guidebook that suits all couples because each person has a different dynamic with another. They don't necessarily 'change' but each relationship is a unique one.

Things that did/didn't work in one relationship won't necessarily work in another.

I think communication is everything. Men and women are different people but we still share a lot of common ground. I do believe that men want to find love, peace, self-respect and happiness as much as women do.

When people get bent out of shape by events, it's a challenge to reconcile being resillient, independant, and still open, and optimistic. But at some point, you have to make a choice to open your heart and let a new person in.
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quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
When people get bent out of shape by events, it's a challenge to reconcile being resillient, independant, and still open, and optimistic. But at some point, you have to make a choice to open your heart and let a new person in.


So you believe that dealing with and moving beyond past disappointments is a personal "choice"? It has to be more complicated than that, I mean just look around you.

...."Perhaps when we stop looking for love from without and concentrate on loving ourselves from within, external love comes looking for us...."

The quote from Sandye sums up the notion of self-restoration and personal growth. Like repairing self back into a position of courage along with new found wisdom to gain the confidence necessary to willfully become vulnerable.
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
This has been a topic in the past that I have discussed with others.

We are being told that women out number the men and that women over a certain age - I think 30 something - are more likley to be struck by lighting (or something like that)

So do you think the poor prospect for black women is due to a shortage?


If there was a shortage, then I'd have about 20+ women right now. Supply and Demand.
quote:
Originally posted by detroit1:
So you believe that dealing with and moving beyond past disappointments is a personal "choice"? It has to be more complicated than that, I mean just look around you..


I agree, it does take courage. Personal courage. Self evaluation. Making decisions. Of course that's not easy, that is the whole point.

Did I say it was easy?
I was making an observation, not criticizing anyone.

What I perhaps didn't express very clearly, is that making a conscious decision to share yourself and let someone into your life is still about choice - making the choice whether to stay whole, not bitter or closed to the next romance. 'Moving past previous disappointments' is about personal choice.

No one else can do it for you. That's exactly why it is difficult.
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I don't think there are a shortage of good black men, but I really think BLACK men have been hurt some much that they have become a little cautious when it comes to relationships. There are still alot of good BLACK men out there ladies, you just have to LOOK for them--some of them can be right under your nose, and you don't even realize it.
You are full of shit , I for one will never date a convict, but for me to find a man good or otherwise I will have to get him drunk hypnotize him put him in a coma and knock him unconcious just to get a date !!!
I am way over 12 years old and certainly don't look like any movie star I have ever seen but I am honest and hard working but this is not what black men want they want blond hair and there is no fxxxxing way I will dye my hair blond don't care if I never get one if that's the only way , I am contented with myself , it would be nice to have someone but I am not going to make an ass of myself to do it !!!
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
I think its due to a shortage of good decision making.

Its a damn shame when I KNOW FOR A FACT, that a convict, and "thug" will get picked over me by a woman about 70% of the time in todays culture. Yeah, these sorry ass men are making it hard for black women and hard for "good black men"..but these sorry ass men are getting picked by women who KNOW what these dudes have done/are doing/ and will do. The majority of these women are ones complaining about a shortage. Depressing....
Just because YOU dont do it, does'nt mean I'M full of shit or its not happening. But since I obviously hit a nerve, and as Shakespere wrote "Methinks the lady doth protest too much." MAYBE the only one full of something is YOU. Have a nice day.....

quote:
Originally posted by Annie:
You are full of shit , I for one will never date a convict, but for me to find a man good or otherwise I will have to get him drunk hypnotize him put him in a coma and knock him unconcious just to get a date !!!
I am way over 12 years old and certainly don't look like any movie star I have ever seen but I am honest and hard working but this is not what black men want they want blond hair and there is no fxxxxing way I will dye my hair blond don't care if I never get one if that's the only way , I am contented with myself , it would be nice to have someone but I am not going to make an ass of myself to do it !!!
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
I think its due to a shortage of good decision making.

Its a damn shame when I KNOW FOR A FACT, that a convict, and "thug" will get picked over me by a woman about 70% of the time in todays culture. Yeah, these sorry ass men are making it hard for black women and hard for "good black men"..but these sorry ass men are getting picked by women who KNOW what these dudes have done/are doing/ and will do. The majority of these women are ones complaining about a shortage. Depressing....
quote:
Originally posted by donna529:
I don't think there are a shortage of good black men, but I really think BLACK men have been hurt some much that they have become a little cautious when it comes to relationships. There are still alot of good BLACK men out there ladies, you just have to LOOK for them--some of them can be right under your nose, and you don't even realize it.


i agree
quote:
Originally posted by ronin10:
quote:
Originally posted by memyselfni:
theres a shortage cause majority of black men are locked up or have moved on to white women


a majority??????

17 Exactly. How can they say that the majority are either in jail or married white women? Especially when only 6% of black men in America marry interracially.
quote:
Originally posted by Nikcara:
There is absolutely a shortage. Those that deny it are doing so because the consequences are far sweeping and longer lasting than they want to admit. Note that when Head Start was at its height, the number of Black men to be incarcerated when down when the Head Start group came of age. Why? Educated and or Employed Black men take care of thier families. Incarerated and or Unemployed Black men can't do that.



Exactly...



Salaam...
Thats a dam lie, there is no shortage of good black men. Maybe a shortage of rich black men. I think materialism and this romanticism of marriage, has gotten black women messed up. Maybe the brother that works on your car, or does your plumbing. or the landscaper is a good black man. I reject this putting down of black men simply because they dont have degrees and a office job. Stop being so dam snobby!!!
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
Thats a dam lie, there is no shortage of good black men. Maybe a shortage of rich black men. I think materialism and this romanticism of marriage, has gotten black women messed up. Maybe the brother that works on your car, or does your plumbing. or the landscaper is a good black man. I reject this putting down of black men simply because they dont have degrees and a office job. Stop being so dam snobby!!!


Who has done this?

On the flip side, I reject all the good black men who put me down because I don't wear makeup, designer clothes, and my hair is locced.

DDouble is correct. This is a "road with no apparent end".
Women need to help one another...

men are a dime a dozen...

I was watching Casino Royale last night...

and there was a phrase that rings true...

trust no one...

very few people are worthy of our love....


love is over rated anyway....

shortage of Good Black Men?

yep...

but there is also a shortage of Good Black Women....

the human family just sucks....
well im sorry you feel like that. Sure the Global Capitalist system coupled with White Supremacy has caused the world community great harm. But sista, there still very good people out here fighting hard everyday to make things better. The question is, what are we doing as individuals to contribute to the fight for human rights and justice. One thing is for sure , we cant just talk. we have to act.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
well im sorry you feel like that. Sure the Global Capitalist system coupled with White Supremacy has caused the world community great harm. But sista, there still very good people out here fighting hard everyday to make things better. The question is, what are we doing as individuals to contribute to the fight for human rights and justice. One thing is for sure , we cant just talk. we have to act.


I deleted my post...

I really don't know... and frankly don't care... I think people should just try not to be eaten

cause the world is full of wolves..

when we can get to the point of survival... then talk strategy...

right now there are plenty of males not enough men...

and lots of whiny baby males begging women to uplift their behinds...

ummm..

my point was to women.... we have babies to tend to... our own hearts... our own finances... our own lives...

can't waste time preparing for the black man that has got his stuff together...

women need to unite...

and raise the male children we need to have present, but don't have, in our adult men right now... find the RARE brother that has his head together as role models and do our damnest not to repeat the ish pool that we are forced to draw from now...

ummm...

yep...

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