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The nation is ready.

He will win if he can be provoked into being letting himself be dragged into some discussion on something that he didn't say, someone else said 'years ago', or is religion-driven.

The power-structure of America will never relinquish any portion of its power without a fight.

The Democrat Party saw, and sees, Senator Obama as the sharpest sword they can get to 'cut' power out of repressive hands of the Republican Party.

Should, and when, Senator Obama wins the Democrat nomination, it will mark the beginning of the restructuring of the political landscape of the United States.

HOTEP

Jim Chester
Great topic question, but why does America have to be ready for a "Black" president? Perhaps America is simply ready for a better president - a president that will be honest, trustworthy, cooperative, and truly interested in how to improve the lives of the average person, not just the affluent and privileged.

It's really disappointing that rather than evaluating Obama's personal qualities and qualifications for the position of president, people are questioning his qualification as a "Black man". Everything seems to be about race, his being "Black", "Mulatto", "Half White", "Mixed," etc. Is this the year 2008? It's disappointing that people are still holding on to this antiquated mindset. We really need to get past this and on to more advanced ways of identifying ourselves and addressing one another.
with the problems facing this nation....I do not see the people deciding who gets to be the president. All of a sudden....options are created for people to choose from....choosing from those options then gives people the impression of freedom and democracy. However, what is the process that creates the choices that we choose from? How democratic is that?

The question for me has NEVER been is America ready for a black president....the question for me is whether America is ready to reconcile its responsiblity in creating racial inequality created from centuries of laws and policies of this nation. the answer to that is HELL NO!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:

The question for me has NEVER been is America ready for a black president....the question for me is whether America is ready to reconcile its responsiblity in creating racial inequality created from centuries of laws and policies of this nation. the answer to that is HELL NO!!!


I agree with this.

But I've seen some very good things come out of this journey, and though it may not pan out as so many people hope, there has been some enlightenment that has occurred and a very new type of dialogue will and has emerged.
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:
The question for me has NEVER been is America ready for a black president....the question for me is whether America is ready to reconcile its responsiblity in creating racial inequality created from centuries of laws and policies of this nation. the answer to that is HELL NO!!!


We have to think about what Black people did in the past in order to get the fair treatment they deserved. Collectively, America will never be ready to give up their majority status and the privileges that a majority status affords them. That is why, as long as we are minorities, we will struggle for equal rights. The problem with this younger generation is that we don't think we should have to struggle. Many of us feel self entitled, because we believe the work for equal rights has already been done. We don't realize that the "problems" that Black people are complaining about today would have been blessing to those of the past.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Should, and when, Senator Obama wins the Democrat nomination, it will mark the beginning of the restructuring of the political landscape of the United States.


yeah


The restructuring will be the product of a severe economic downturn. Political paradigms will have to shift when it becomes obvious that neither party has a solution. If that does not happen, the demographic changes in this nation, namely that rapid growth of the Hispanic population and the slow to now growth of the white population, makes the Republican party untenable without a shift to the left. McCain is really the Republicans template for the future. As the nation becomes proportionately less white, either the Republican Party becomes less viable or white democrats start moving to the Republican Party.

The problem for the Democratic Party, which few will admit, is that diversity has the potential to be problematic. Eventually there will be strong Hispanic candidates for the Democrats. So soon you will have Hispanic, black and white candidates all running at the same time and each winning the majority vote of their race or ethnic group. Whites may then start moving in greater numbers to a Republican party that has moved somewhat to the left. Their rational will be that it's hard for whites to get elected when Hispanics are voting for Hispanics and blacks are voting for blacks.


Eventually whites may feel that they need a party that represents their racial interest.....which will be the Republican Party. Both parties historically represented white interest and was separated mainly by the class dichotomy between whites. However, with a shrinking percentage of the population being white, for the foreseeable future, the concept of "White interest" and preserving white culture and way of life will subconsciously, if not consciously, move a greater percentage of whites to the Republican Party.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:
The question for me has NEVER been is America ready for a black president....the question for me is whether America is ready to reconcile its responsiblity in creating racial inequality created from centuries of laws and policies of this nation. the answer to that is HELL NO!!!


We have to think about what Black people did in the past in order to get the fair treatment they deserved. The problem with this younger generation is that we don't think we have to struggle for anything. Many of us feel self entitled, because we believe the work for equal rights has already been done. We don't realize that the "problems" that Black people are complaining about today, would have been blessing to those of the past.


The problem with that theory is that you need something called a MAJORITY to do that in congress. That majority is still white and it will become increasingly Hispanic. Hence....I do not see that happening any time soon...if at all.
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:
The problem with that theory is that you need something called a MAJORITY to do that in congress. That majority is still white and it will become increasingly Hispanic. Hence....I do not see that happening any time soon...if at all.


Here we go...

Judging from your posts Noah, it's very clear that you have a dooms day perspective on this topic (Obama becoming president). Most of your responses are "No, that's not going to work" or "No, that's never going to happen," or No, whites won't let us have this and Whites won't let us have that." I'm saying that in the past, Black people didn't let these kinds of statements hold them back from deterring mistreatment and/or getting what they know every human being deserved. So instead of denouncing everyone else's ideas and solutions, why not start offering more solutions of your own?
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
there is one question never truly asked (in terms of race and racism), I guess, or I missed it: Why did so many white voters support Clinton?
This is what I find quite disturbing, the huge support she got.


Contrary to what has been said by a number of people on this board, Hillary has done a great deal to help *middle America* (read: working-class White folks), especially women and children in the area of health benefits (she was the brain-child of a nationwide federal policy that gives health care to millions of children - before she ever became an elected public official). She has also been a strong advocate for increased minimum wages and better unemployment benefits, which helped many of the White factory workers who lost their jobs to outsourcing. And she has travelled the country actually being involved with a lot of those people's lives.

The general consensus here is that she's never done anything in her life that warrants recognition, but Hillary's been involved in public service for a very long time and has helped put in place a good number of policies and procedures that have helped a number of individuals. And that's probably more true of White people simply because there's more of them than there are of anybody else.

There is also large numbers of White support for her because of the fact that she's a woman - and women make up the highest percentage of the voting population and a lot of (White) women would like to see her as the first female president.

Lastly, the remainder of (Whites) that support her for reasons other than those listed above is the fact that they will not/don't want to vote for a Black person or see one as their president, plain and simple.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
Question:
Is the USA ready for a Black President?


I dunno about that ... but I do think it's ready for Barack ... if that's what you're asking! Smile


Huh? Confused


I, personally, don't see Obama as a *Black* president, per se. I see him as a president who happens to have Black features and skin tone (as he says is the way he would like to be considered) as opposed to a *Brotha* that's going to be sitting in the Oval Office.

So, I don't think this country is ready for a Black president (in the true sense of the phrase) ... but I do believe that a number of them will/would find somebody like Barack acceptable.
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:
The question for me has NEVER been is America ready for a black president....the question for me is whether America is ready to reconcile its responsiblity in creating racial inequality created from centuries of laws and policies of this nation. the answer to that is HELL NO!!!


We have to think about what Black people did in the past in order to get the fair treatment they deserved. The problem with this younger generation is that we don't think we have to struggle for anything. Many of us feel self entitled, because we believe the work for equal rights has already been done. We don't realize that the "problems" that Black people are complaining about today, would have been blessing to those of the past.


The problem with that theory is that you need something called a MAJORITY to do that in congress. That majority is still white and it will become increasingly Hispanic. Hence....I do not see that happening any time soon...if at all.


If you want to roll over and die, go right ahead, but please stop telling the rest of us that if we want to live, we have to live on our knees. Your fear and despair are your own.
quote:
Originally posted by Malik:
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:
The question for me has NEVER been is America ready for a black president....the question for me is whether America is ready to reconcile its responsiblity in creating racial inequality created from centuries of laws and policies of this nation. the answer to that is HELL NO!!!


We have to think about what Black people did in the past in order to get the fair treatment they deserved. The problem with this younger generation is that we don't think we have to struggle for anything. Many of us feel self entitled, because we believe the work for equal rights has already been done. We don't realize that the "problems" that Black people are complaining about today, would have been blessing to those of the past.


The problem with that theory is that you need something called a MAJORITY to do that in congress. That majority is still white and it will become increasingly Hispanic. Hence....I do not see that happening any time soon...if at all.


If you want to roll over and die, go right ahead, but please stop telling the rest of us that if we want to live, we have to live on our knees. Your fear and despair are your own.



Oh hell yeah. Geez. I couldn't have said it better myself.
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
Question:
Is the USA ready for a Black President?


I dunno about that ... but I do think it's ready for Barack ... if that's what you're asking! Smile


Huh? Confused


I, personally, don't see Obama as a *Black* president, per se. I see him as a president who happens to have Black features and skin tone (as he says is the way he would like to be considered) as opposed to a *Brotha* that's going to be sitting in the Oval Office.


I may be being a little dense today, but I'm still confused ER...

He definitely is African/Black(like you stated above)... So I'm at a loss why he isn't a brotha'...A.K.A. Black man

quote:
So, I don't think this country is ready for a Black president (in the true sense of the phrase) ... but I do believe that a number of them will/would find somebody like Barack acceptable.


What is the true sense of the phrase?... or rather what do you mean by that? Are you referring to his mannerisms, policy, or something else?

I can see he doesn't have the stereotypical Black/African mannerisms(not that they are accurate, or have anything whatsoever with determining who is Black/African)

He also can be percieved to not have a pro-African/Black policy... but Collin Powel and Condi Rice ect. are far worse in that arena and are still definitely Black/African... Albeit confused/working overtly for the interests of the enemy)...

Can you explain it too me... I've purposely ignored most of the Obama threads... So if I'm making you repeat yourself I apologize in advance.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
Question:
Is the USA ready for a Black President?


I dunno about that ... but I do think it's ready for Barack ... if that's what you're asking! Smile


Huh? Confused


I, personally, don't see Obama as a *Black* president, per se. I see him as a president who happens to have Black features and skin tone (as he says is the way he would like to be considered) as opposed to a *Brotha* that's going to be sitting in the Oval Office.


I may be being a little dense today, but I'm still confused ER...

He definitely is African/Black(like you stated above)... So I'm at a loss why he isn't a brotha'...A.K.A. Black man

quote:
So, I don't think this country is ready for a Black president (in the true sense of the phrase) ... but I do believe that a number of them will/would find somebody like Barack acceptable.


What is the true sense of the phrase?... or rather what do you mean by that? Are you referring to his mannerisms, policy, or something else?

I can see he doesn't have the stereotypical Black/African mannerisms(not that they are accurate, or have anything whatsoever with determining who is Black/African)

He also can be percieved to not have a pro-African/Black policy... but Collin Powel and Condi Rice ect. are far worse in that arena and are still definitely Black/African... Albeit confused/working overtly for the interests of the enemy)...

Can you explain it too me... I've purposely ignored most of the Obama threads... So if I'm making you repeat yourself I apologize in advance.



Colin Powell and Condi Rice?


I can think of a thousand rappers, a hundred clergymen, several academics, and many assorted others that I would kick out of the race before Obama ... Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
So, I don't think this country is ready for a Black president (in the true sense of the phrase) ... but I do believe that a number of them will/would find somebody like Barack acceptable.


What is the true sense of the phrase?... or rather what do you mean by that? Are you referring to his mannerisms, policy, or something else?

I can see he doesn't have the stereotypical Black/African mannerisms(not that they are accurate, or have anything whatsoever with determining who is Black/African)

He also can be percieved to not have a pro-African/Black policy... but Collin Powel and Condi Rice ect. are far worse in that arena and are still definitely Black/African... Albeit confused/working overtly for the interests of the enemy)...

Can you explain it too me... I've purposely ignored most of the Obama threads... So if I'm making you repeat yourself I apologize in advance.


Yes, OA ... for lack of a more complicated answer, I do mean by that his mannerisms, policies .. and the something else would be his upbringing and experiences and the way he formulates certain solutions to our problems.

While the man is undeniably of *Black/African* descent, there are (major) differences which set him apart in relation to OUR commonalities (those things shared by the majority of us that claim ourselves as African Americans). Most folks see that as spewing some kind of *hate* against him .... and I don't say it to disrespect ... I say it because it's the truth.

Obama's story: Born to an African male/American White female union, born in Hawaii, childhood spent in Indonesia, raised by White grandparents, educated in Prep school through high school before coming to the states and searching to identify his 'Blackness' as an adult is a story not even close to even the smallest fraction of the 'average African American experience'.

Now, personally, I don't think that makes him a "bad" person, or "inadequate" or "incapable" or any other negative connotation I've been accused of having/feeling/believing about Barack. I happen to think it makes him "unique" ... but the fact remains, he's just not (nor thinks, nor acts, nor speaks, nor relates to our issues like) a "brotha" in the same way as many/most/any other African American/Black male that I can even think of!! Eek

Now ... the Condi/Colin thing was a good example. While I think Condi should know better (and is just a *house negro* by all accounts), I do give Colin somewhat of a *difference* factor being Jamaican and probably experiencing a different mentality upbringing via his parents/extended family. (But he's still a house Negro-acting somethin' too!)

For me, Obama's differences and different mentality explains him well, and that's why I'm not looking for the Dashiki, afro-wearing, Super Brotha 'who's going to deal with our issues in a head on, straightforward manner' because I don't think it's in him to do that. I believe that his being an *American* first and foremost (which most Black people I know do not share that sentiment - and a poll I posted showed that most people here do not have that sentiment either) and having a soft spot for the poor and discriminated agaist and underpriviledged Americans among us, is how we, as Black people, are going to see any relief (if there's any coming) from him.

He knows Black people have it hard .. but he doesn't see us as being the only ones, or even the worst off. And he wants to help as many as he can. So I think he will work among class as opposed to racial lines to fix things. For a lot of people that's good enough. But, I'm not one of those people. I believe our unique situation deserves a unique solution. He doesn't get a pass for that just because he's "Black". He gets an excuse for acceptance of that because he is different.

I like call him "another kinda brotha". But that's just me. Smile
There are quite a few things upon which Obama could be legitimatly criticised, but to even mention his name along with folks like Powell, after his disgraceful appearence before the UN, is just not right.

Nothing that Obama has done, whether with reguards to Wright, Trinity, or his most recient speech before AIPAC, even comes close to being comparable to either Powell or Rice.

It just isn't even in the same ballpark, IMNSHO.

That said, I believe that this nomination process has proved that this country is most definately not ready for a Black President.

However, that said, I strongly suspect that we are going to get one anyway.

Ready or not, here he comes.
(quote)
Is the USA ready for a Black President?

(reply)
If this country wasn't ready for a black president I don't think Colin Powel would have been considered for the #1 prospect for defeating Bill Clinton on the republican side and I don't think Obama would have susceeded with the Democratic nomination as he has

Ebony Rose said:

(quote)
but the fact remains, he's just not (nor thinks, nor acts, nor speaks, nor relates to our issues like) a "brotha" in the same way as many/most/any other African American/Black male that I can even think of!!

(reply)
I know an unfortunate number of people who have the attitude that if you speak in a professional manner (using proper english) and you act professional, that you are trying to act white; as if white people have cornered the market on professionalism, and black folks are supposed to act unprofessional and stupid!
I trust this is not what you are saying so please explain exactly what is it about his speech and behavior that indicates to you that he just isn't black enough

Kevin
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
Question:
Is the USA ready for a Black President?


I dunno about that ... but I do think it's ready for Barack ... if that's what you're asking! Smile


Huh? Confused


I, personally, don't see Obama as a *Black* president, per se. I see him as a president who happens to have Black features and skin tone (as he says is the way he would like to be considered) as opposed to a *Brotha* that's going to be sitting in the Oval Office.


I may be being a little dense today, but I'm still confused ER...

He definitely is African/Black(like you stated above)... So I'm at a loss why he isn't a brotha'...A.K.A. Black man

quote:
So, I don't think this country is ready for a Black president (in the true sense of the phrase) ... but I do believe that a number of them will/would find somebody like Barack acceptable.


What is the true sense of the phrase?... or rather what do you mean by that? Are you referring to his mannerisms, policy, or something else?

I can see he doesn't have the stereotypical Black/African mannerisms(not that they are accurate, or have anything whatsoever with determining who is Black/African)

He also can be percieved to not have a pro-African/Black policy... but Collin Powel and Condi Rice ect. are far worse in that arena and are still definitely Black/African... Albeit confused/working overtly for the interests of the enemy)...

Can you explain it too me... I've purposely ignored most of the Obama threads... So if I'm making you repeat yourself I apologize in advance.



Colin Powell and Condi Rice?


I can think of a thousand rappers, a hundred clergymen, several academics, and many assorted others that I would kick out of the race before Obama ... Roll Eyes


That was precisely my point. I used them as the extreme "not working in our interests but still accepted as African/Black" example. I don't understand how Obama isn't...

I don't understand how people are kicked out of a race... they either are African/Black or they aren't. They also are working for our interests or not. One doesn't cancel out the other... So I will have to disagree with ER's opinion.

As a side note, none of the rappers, clergymen, and/or academics got 'noticed' by bombing(and therefore killing in mass) Africans in Grenada, as Collin Powell did... Africans who were in large literally transplants from his beloved Jamaica. sck

He kinda 'takes the cake' in that regard...
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
There are quite a few things upon which Obama could be legitimatly criticised, but to even mention his name along with folks like Powell, after his disgraceful appearence before the UN, is just not right.

Nothing that Obama has done, whether with reguards to Wright, Trinity, or his most recient speech before AIPAC, even comes close to being comparable to either Powell or Rice.

It just isn't even in the same ballpark, IMNSHO.

That said, I believe that this nomination process has proved that this country is most definately not ready for a Black President.

However, that said, I strongly suspect that we are going to get one anyway.

Ready or not, here he comes.


Hope you weren't mistakenly talking to me...
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
There are quite a few things upon which Obama could be legitimatly criticised, but to even mention his name along with folks like Powell, after his disgraceful appearence before the UN, is just not right.

Nothing that Obama has done, whether with reguards to Wright, Trinity, or his most recient speech before AIPAC, even comes close to being comparable to either Powell or Rice.

It just isn't even in the same ballpark, IMNSHO.

That said, I believe that this nomination process has proved that this country is most definately not ready for a Black President.

However, that said, I strongly suspect that we are going to get one anyway.

Ready or not, here he comes.


Hope you weren't mistakenly talking to me...


No, but I can see why you might have interpreted it that way, given the way that I phrased it in the first with my "but to even mention his name in the same sentence" thing.

Both you and HB pretty unambiguously distinguised between Obama on the one hand and Powell and Rice on the other.

ER might have come close, but not unambigously enough for me to quote her words as a preamble.

It was more a general comment based on other such comparrisons that I have seen on other threads, that seeing their names together here just made me think of.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:

As a side note, none of the rappers, clergymen, and/or academics got 'noticed' by bombing(and therefore killing in mass) Africans in Grenada, as Collin Powell did... Africans who were in large literally transplants from his beloved Jamaica. sck

He kinda 'takes the cake' in that regard...



ohsnap Colin did what? i was aware that he was a reagan/bush military flunky from way back when...but wow!
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:

but the fact remains, he's just not (nor thinks, nor acts, nor speaks, nor relates to our issues like) a "brotha" in the same way as many/most/any other African American/Black male that I can even think of!!



I lot of people say that about me ... and my people been here for generations ... Confused

I also resemble that remark.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
Question:
Is the USA ready for a Black President?


I dunno about that ... but I do think it's ready for Barack ... if that's what you're asking! Smile


Huh? Confused


I, personally, don't see Obama as a *Black* president, per se. I see him as a president who happens to have Black features and skin tone (as he says is the way he would like to be considered) as opposed to a *Brotha* that's going to be sitting in the Oval Office.


I may be being a little dense today, but I'm still confused ER...

He definitely is African/Black(like you stated above)... So I'm at a loss why he isn't a brotha'...A.K.A. Black man

quote:
So, I don't think this country is ready for a Black president (in the true sense of the phrase) ... but I do believe that a number of them will/would find somebody like Barack acceptable.


What is the true sense of the phrase?... or rather what do you mean by that? Are you referring to his mannerisms, policy, or something else?

I can see he doesn't have the stereotypical Black/African mannerisms(not that they are accurate, or have anything whatsoever with determining who is Black/African)

He also can be percieved to not have a pro-African/Black policy... but Collin Powel and Condi Rice ect. are far worse in that arena and are still definitely Black/African... Albeit confused/working overtly for the interests of the enemy)...

Can you explain it too me... I've purposely ignored most of the Obama threads... So if I'm making you repeat yourself I apologize in advance.



Colin Powell and Condi Rice?


I can think of a thousand rappers, a hundred clergymen, several academics, and many assorted others that I would kick out of the race before Obama ... Roll Eyes


yeah
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
Question:
Is the USA ready for a Black President?


I dunno about that ... but I do think it's ready for Barack ... if that's what you're asking! Smile


Huh? Confused


I, personally, don't see Obama as a *Black* president, per se. I see him as a president who happens to have Black features and skin tone (as he says is the way he would like to be considered) as opposed to a *Brotha* that's going to be sitting in the Oval Office.

So, I don't think this country is ready for a Black president (in the true sense of the phrase) ... but I do believe that a number of them will/would find somebody like Barack acceptable.


Do you mean a Black president (in the true sense of the phrase) that speaks in rhyme, father's children out of wedlock, where's a process, speaks in broken english, whose mama screams "that's y'alls boy" at rally to defend him, smokes crack in a hotel with a woman not his wife type of Black president (in the true sense of the phrase)?

or

Do you mean a Black president (in the true sense of the phrase) that is married to a black woman, with 2 black little girls, plays basketball, told people they were falling for the okey-doke, who tapped his wife on the ass, who white people said they would not vote for because of his name and color, had to get secret service sooner than anyone else in primary history because of death threats, who was classified as being where he was only because he was Black type of Black president (in the true sense of the phrase)?

I need to know what your standards and criteria are for being black so I can examine whether I truly belong on this board, am checking the right box for race and correct people when calling me a black mf (the insult would no longer sting if I am not actually Black in the true sense of the word)...

Thanks for your cooperation in this
Black (or maybe not) and confused...
quote:
Originally posted by thabrothaman69:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
Question:
Is the USA ready for a Black President?


I dunno about that ... but I do think it's ready for Barack ... if that's what you're asking! Smile


Huh? Confused


I, personally, don't see Obama as a *Black* president, per se. I see him as a president who happens to have Black features and skin tone (as he says is the way he would like to be considered) as opposed to a *Brotha* that's going to be sitting in the Oval Office.

So, I don't think this country is ready for a Black president (in the true sense of the phrase) ... but I do believe that a number of them will/would find somebody like Barack acceptable.


Do you mean a Black president (in the true sense of the phrase) that speaks in rhyme, father's children out of wedlock, where's a process, speaks in broken english, whose mama screams "that's y'alls boy" at rally to defend him, smokes crack in a hotel with a woman not his wife type of Black president (in the true sense of the phrase)?

or

Do you mean a Black president (in the true sense of the phrase) that is married to a black woman, with 2 black little girls, plays basketball, told people they were falling for the okey-doke, who tapped his wife on the ass, who white people said they would not vote for because of his name and color, had to get secret service sooner than anyone else in primary history because of death threats, who was classified as being where he was only because he was Black type of Black president (in the true sense of the phrase)?

I need to know what your standards and criteria are for being black so I can examine whether I truly belong on this board, am checking the right box for race and correct people when calling me a black mf (the insult would no longer sting if I am not actually Black in the true sense of the word)...

Thanks for your cooperation in this
Black (or maybe not) and confused...


I hear ya. Look, we're not a monolithic people, so why should we be in lockstep in mannerisms and such, when we weren't back in the day? We weren't monolithic during the CRM. You SCLC, NOI, and SNCC. All three agreed on uplifting the masses, just with different methods.

The level of blackness isn't something that you check every 3000 miles like the oil in your car.
quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
I trust this is not what you are saying so please explain exactly what is it about his speech and behavior that indicates to you that he just isn't black enough

Kevin


You know, I have a problem with the phrase "black enough" because it's subjective, depending on whom and for what he's supposed to be "black enough" for. That's a matter of personal opinion, and though I have one, it isn't what this conversation is really about.

What is FACT, though, is that while he IS unquestionably biologically African/Black, he does not share the experience of what it is to be African American/Black and he does not have the same Black *mentality* that you and I (and damn near everybody else on this board) share when it comes to our relationship with the United States of America and as the descendents of people that it enslaved. For the sake of making Obama "just anotha brotha" you can try to minimize the importance and affect that has on the African American collective. But, it is an integral part of who we are as a people, it is woven into our culture, our perspective, our perceptions ... and it binds us together in a certain way that those who haven't lived it are hard-pressed to fully understand.

Most of us have either been around long enough that we actually lived the CRM or we have a brother, uncle/aunt, cousin, great- or grand- blood relation who did. That is one of the many *shared commonalities* among the African American population that more of us have in common than not. For Barack, it's a "not." His experience does not put him in that mix. And that difference .. that lack of ˜shared experience' shapes and forms a different prospective on America, -- on our fight, the struggle, on White people and their discrimination of us, on our problems and the solutions to them in ways that are also "different" from the average African American.

Barack says he's "post-racial" in a country that can't even start a conversation on trying to become *post race.* He can do that because he started out on the OTHER SIDE of *race* from the day he was born! He's been able to *transcend* race because he skipped the part where he actually had to live it in the same way most of the rest of us have.

His journey started with acceptance into a/the White community, and the kind of access to privilege that you and I are still fighting to achieve. To me it's ridiculous to think that that wouldn't shape Obama's way of thinking and of seeing the same things that we see from a different perspective and in a different light. But he's shown that it has in a number of different ways. It's Black people's refusal to see that, that's the really scary part.

Is the man African/Black? Confused Well, that's a really stupid question, if you ask me. 19 What's even more ridiculous is that I actually have to answer it because some people seem to think that I'm a moron who has lost touch with reality and could reasonably answer that as a "No"!! Eek But, I'll play along and say for the record, "Of course Barack is a Black man" in case that really needs to be cleared up. sck But being Black isn't an automatic connection to the African American experience and psyche. Ask the Continental Africans who come over here and call us "lazy" and "stupid" for living in the Land of Plenty and not having collected any more than most of us've got. Are they right or do they have misconceptions about who we are and how we got here? You have to live the African American experience to truly understand what it is and be a part of it.

And let's not forget that Obama started his run for president under some kind of delusion that the fact that he is a Black man could go unsaid and unrecognized. In a country where the race of a person is THE #1 issue there is... nobody (news pundits, rivals, not even us!) were supposed to mention that little jewel, lest White people might find out and take it the wrong way. 19 The majority of us went for that hook, line and sinker, chastising anybody that broke "the rule" to actually acknowledge the 800 lbs. elephant in the room. Yet, I get called on the carpet for questioning his ˜blackness" when Barack himself still won't let the word/acknowledgement pass from his lips. Have you never heard HIM talk about being the first Black president? Confused

I really don't expect honesty to prevail in this conversation, because it has been missing from Obama discussions from the get go and progression to realism in that regard has been slow-moving and we're not much further along than when we started. Obama's opinions and perspective and outlook towards America is just as much shaped by his upbringing as the rest of ours from the way we had to live it. And an honest look at that will show you two different worlds.

African DNA does not make us ALL ALIKE in EVERY SINGLE WAY. Barack is a direct descendent of a Continental African. How many of you share that with him? Or, are you more like me ... born to two American parents? Barack was raised off of the mainland United States during his childhood. How many of you, like me, grew up in the lower 48? I went to public school ... Obama graduated from a Prep. What percentage of you .. and all the Black people you know ... do you share that *commonality* with ... him or me? Confused

There are likenesses and there are differences. But the bottom line is that you will run out of fingers counting the number people that you know that have those things in common ... and will be left with a majority of your fingers, counting those who do not. And there is a shared mentality among those people who have those commonalities ... that those who have not shared in those experiences do not have. You can act like that's not true if you want to, but you'd be denying a major part of what makes you who you are today. And make Barack into something and somebody that he's not.

But that's pretty much been the case all along, now hasn't it? He has a Black wife and Black children, which erases all his differences and make him a "brotha" just like you, right? Confused
quote:
What is FACT, though, is... he does not share the experience of what it is to be African American/Black


How come he doesn't?


quote:
he does not have the same Black *mentality* that you and I... share when it comes to our relationship with the United States of America and as the descendents of people that it enslaved.


There's a bunch of slave descendant Black people who share Obama's mentality. Get a clue.
quote:
Originally posted by kresge:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:

but the fact remains, he's just not (nor thinks, nor acts, nor speaks, nor relates to our issues like) a "brotha" in the same way as many/most/any other African American/Black male that I can even think of!!



I lot of people say that about me ... and my people been here for generations ... Confused

I also resemble that remark.

Ditto.
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
Look, we're not a monolithic people, so why should we be in lockstep in mannerisms and such, when we weren't back in the day? We weren't monolithic during the CRM. You SCLC, NOI, and SNCC. All three agreed on uplifting the masses, just with different methods.

The level of blackness isn't something that you check every 3000 miles like the oil in your car.


yeah
quote:
Do you mean a Black president (in the true sense of the phrase) that speaks in rhyme, father's children out of wedlock, where's a process, speaks in broken english, whose mama screams "that's y'alls boy" at rally to defend him, smokes crack in a hotel with a woman not his wife type of Black president (in the true sense of the phrase)?

---------------------------------------------

What in the ---- are you talking about? The above description IS NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN THAT OF A BLACK MAN "IN THE TRUE SENSE OF THE PHRASE." This is a description of Hollywood's version of a Black Man; this is a description of America's racist propaganda machine's version of a Black Man, this is a soundbite or video clip on the racially biased news circuit's description of a Black Man.

Every Black man in America does not speak broken English, at least no more broken than all the rest of Americans who do not speak correct English either.

Every Black man in America is not on crack, nor does ever Black man in America smoke crack in a hotel room with a woman that's not his wife.

Every Black man in America does not have a mother that yells "that's yalls boy" at any ralley to defend him because every Black male in America is not in need of a ralley to defend him, and those that are all don't have mothers that speak incorrect English.

Every Black man in America does not speak in rhyme.

Every Black man in America does not have a "process" -- (damn, how old are you?)

Every Black man in America does not have children out of wedlock.
_____________________________________ Or maybe this is a description of yourself and since you do not know every Black man in America, you are just assuming that they are all just like you?
I think this country is only partially ready for a Black president (and no more ready for an Asian, Latino, Jewish, Middle Eastern descended, president, just in case any other minorities reading this are living in that fantasy world created for them by the right wing in this country, that somehow, it's only Blacks that racist whites do not like).

This country may be split 50/50 on having a Black (or any other minority) president, and Hillary and her team playing race card during the campaign only served to exaserbate that feeling.

Hopefully, Obama will be able to actually speak to groups that have only had the media's and the Clinton interpretation of Obama, and he better pull out all the stops the register as many white people who are not racist (or that racist), as many Blacks as possible, if he's going to stand a chance at winning, considering that it appears that he may not be getting any help from the Latinos because a large percentage of their voting population appears to be living under the fantasy (created for them by the right until their votes are no longer needed), that in order to be accepted by whites you have to be racist against Blacks in America, leading them to believe that they are being accepted, when in fact they are only being used, trust me we should know; and old racist white women probably just need to be written off by his team.

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