Skip to main content

Well Michael Eric Dyson Book is in stores now, I shall be picking up a copy this weekend and plan on commenting on it here and on my blog. In the mean time check out his interview with Al Rocker on NBC.

Interview and exerpt from book


Michale may be coming to your town. I think I will drive up to LA, to check him out at EsoWan Book store.

Check his tour Scheldule to see when he is in your town.

Tour Scheldule
-------------------------
There are Negroes who will never fight for freedom. There are Negroes who will seek profit for themselves from the struggle. There are even some Negroes who will cooperate with the oppressors. The hammer blows of discrimination, poverty, and segregation must warp and corrupt some. No one can pretend that because a people may be oppressed, every individual member is virtuous and worthy. Martin Luther King

More to come later! Your Brother Faheem
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
Well Michael Eric Dyson Book is in stores now, I shall be picking up a copy this weekend and plan on commenting on it here and on my blog. In the mean time check out his interview with Al Rocker on NBC.

Interview and exerpt from book


Michale may be coming to your town. I think I will drive up to LA, to check him out at EsoWan Book store.

Check his tour Scheldule to see when he is in your town.

Tour Scheldule


Michael Eric Dyson is another one of those racist hucksters who has mastered the art of selling skinny books filled with white-bashing hyperbole at fat prices to those black folks who can least afford to pay out good money to read Dyson's brand of pseudo-intellectual rubbish.
Last edited {1}
My vote:

LOST MIND.... Just like Eggie...

Anyway, thanks for posting.
I'll highlight this portion (then hopefully get a chance to read the whole article):

Of course, the ink and applause Cosby has won rest largely on a faulty assumption: that he is the first black figure to stare down the "pathology" that plagues poor blacks. But to believe that ignores how figures from black intellectual W.E.B. Du Bois to civil rights leader Jesse Jackson, in varying contexts, with differing results, have spoken controversially about the black poor.
I thought evil ones like you Egbert celebrated upward mobile Black men and women, that have a degree at every level including a Doctorate. This is what you all tell us when we criticize Negro men and women like Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas. You say we hate them because they are successful and you claim you like them because they are successful. Well here is a Black man that was on welfare at 21 years of age, worked himself off welfare and is a Professor at a big name University. What's there not to like about him? He is a great example for Black men and women, more so than Condi and Clarence because he has been able to be himself and not sell his soul to attain success and that's what you really hate. If he was one of those foot shuffling Negroes like Sowell, Elder, Armstrong or the grammarian challenged Peterson you would be on his Johnson.
I was similarly struck by the passage excerpted by Nmaginate.

I don't know that there is any indication Bill Cosby is presumed to be the 'first'.

Dyson chides Cosby for what he said, and challenges his understanding, or crediting 'other' influences. Yet Dyson makes no such challenge to those earlier voices in history that did the same thing. While I don't know that those earlier voices encounter the same 'knee-jerk' response, it would not be surprising that it happened then as well.

Clearly, the merit of the critcism is not Dyson's target. Otherwise he would have leveled that same challenge to the words of those he cited i.e. W.E.B. DuBois et al.

Michael Eric Dyson is as open to a tangential arguement challenging his intent as Cosby.

There seems to always be some other reason the laundry is dirty.

Dirt alone can never be the only reason for the dirt.

Purity of thought can never be the only reason for criticism.

Controversy is good for book sales. There is no great sociological truth to be revealed here.

That's not bad.

It's just business.

PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Yet Dyson makes no such challenge to those earlier voices in history that did the same thing. While I don't know that those earlier voices encounter the same 'knee-jerk' response, it would not be surprising that it happened then as well.

Clearly, the merit of the critcism is not Dyson's target. Otherwise he would have leveled that same challenge to the words of those he cited i.e. W.E.B. DuBois et al.
Silly comments...

Those other, older voices without a doubt made more sense and backed their words up with some type of plan instead just a condescending judgement like Cosby. The Cosby who has Lost His F*ckin' Mind along with so many of those who jumped on his bandied-wagon.

Trying to play ignorant about the reception Cosby got will not help you JWC. Yes, without a doubt "the ink and applause" Cosby got paraded him as if he was the only one who was or who has said what he did -- a figure of his stature that is. Those things were said explicitly but in the original print and in the words of those who supported Cosby...

So, drop the play dumb part and the silliness about Dyson challenging DuBois, etc. You act like Cosby would even be considered in the league of DuBois, which is... well, silly.
So, drop the play dumb part and the silliness about Dyson challenging DuBois, etc. You act like Cosby would even be considered in the league of DuBois, which is... well, silly.---Nmaginate

The injection of DuBois is done by Dyson. I certainly don't compare Cosby. To even conclude that comparison is silly.

Dyson is a 'voice' in African America, as is Cosby. The come from different places, but one has as much right to speak to the circumstance of African American-Americans as the other.

Neither is 'pure' in their motivation.

Few of us are.

I listened to an interview with Dyson on a talk show. He wasn't nearly so confrontational to the substance of Cosby's comments, or critical of Cosby's position.

He maintained his overall defense as to reasons, but he did not challenge the quality of Cosby's comments.

There is an anonymity afforded by a keyboard, and the demand of a publisher, versus face-to-face exchange.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
Nmaginate is right...JWC...do not compare an true academic to one that is spouting generalized rhetoric...that i could have espoused in high school...............


Once again.

The comparison was initiated by Dr. Dyson. Once used why is off limits to reference that comparison?

I certainly am not comparing the work of a base-line scientist with an educator-comedian-philanthropist.

Dyson drew the comparison of words of one with the other.


PEACE

Jim Chester

PEACE
JWC...

You made an issue out of Dyson challenging DuBois et al. Own up to your own comments and be done with it.

First, you might want to research and be sure that Dyson has not "challenged" (or differed) from the DECEASED DuBois and those living who fit that description.

I'm pretty sure he's voiced his opinion about both DuBois and Jesse. So, in other words, your comments not only don't have a basis but are seen for what they are as a weak defense of Cosby by trying to evade what's at issue.
A recent article:

These People
Bill Cosby's criticism of poor and uneducated African Americans set off a yearlong debate. Now Michael Eric Dyson has written a book that talks back.
By Erin Aubry Kaplan
Erin Aubry Kaplan last wrote for the magazine about the African aesthetic in the spring 2005 fashion collections.

July 24, 2005

In these days of polarizing, pulverizing debates that make it almost impossible to describe what it means to be African American anymore, I find myself better off simply describing a day in my life:

I drive to Locke High School to teach a poetry workshop to a group of 10th-graders. Locke is a terribly underperforming, sometimes violent school in a poor, significantly black neighborhood in South Los Angeles, yet it is only 15 minutes from my middle-class, also significantly black neighborhood in Inglewood. The campus is clean, if a bit shabby. The black girls in my group are reserved, though not sullen; they are willing, often eager, to write. The boys tend to speak out of turn, but only in service of poetry"”they volunteer ideas, answers, reasons why something is a metaphor or is not. They write, too. Nobody's grammar or literary analysis is perfect, yet I leave Locke feeling buoyed, connected, hopeful.

I stop at a gas station and switch almost unthinkingly to a grim face because some young black men loitering near the pumps, men who resemble the boys I just left, are looking hard at me and, caught between ethnic fear and familiarity, I go with fear; I learned early that I must survive first and reason later. Back on the road, a black motorist in a gleaming SUV has rap music, foul language and all, turned up to a deafening assault, shivering everything within a four-lane radius from the tires up. I flash on a well-worn anger: Why we got to be like this? On the way into Hollywood I notice that almost every homeless person I pass is black, and the anger flares again, this time with more sorrowful indignation than exasperation: Why we got to be like this?

By the time I get to work"”an office in which I am the only black person doing what I'm doing"”I'm convinced that what I do at Locke means almost nothing at all, that however willing the students, they will eventually be swallowed whole by the monster that has stalked us from one generation into the next, a ravenous chimera of lesser schools, lack of trust, indifference, idleness, low ambitions and low-hanging pants that sag like still-unrealized freedom dreams. I put myself beyond that monster's reach decades ago and am relatively safe; many other black people are not. But however prudent it may be to not go back to Locke, to cut ties or close my eyes, I know it's not possible, because in spite of the miles and sensibilities that separate Hollywood from South L.A. and South L.A. from Inglewood, we"”me, the students, the driver, the vagrants and loiterers"”are all somehow in the same place. With a mix of weariness and wonder that I can't characterize at all, I think, for the last time: Why we got to be like this?

So there it is: As often in my writing life as I've chronicled being black, I am confounded by it. I was at a particular loss a year ago, when Bill Cosby, in his remarks at an NAACP ceremony commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Supreme Court's decision in Brown vs. Board of Education, declared to the well-dressed black audience that it was more or less the black poor and ghetto-dwelling who were holding back"”well, holding up"”the progress of the race. As everybody now knows, Cosby excoriated "these people" for a dirty-laundry list of things that have become synonymous in many people's minds with the black condition: bad parenting, bad English, unplanned pregnancies, high incarceration rates, high dropout rates, even fanciful names "like Shaniqua, Shaligua, Mohammed and all that crap" that attempt to reach back to Africa via a certain American inventiveness"”more bad English, I suppose.

Taken by surprise, the audience responded as it would to a typical Cosby performance, laughing and applauding. Theodore Shaw, president of the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, who followed Cosby on the program, officially kicked off what has become a yearlong debate when he jettisoned his prepared remarks and instead cautioned against demonizing the black poor by ignoring a bigger picture of racism and neglect. In the immediate media aftermath, many other black notables shouted or mumbled their assent, from conservative columnists such as Thomas Sowell to then-NAACP CEO Kweisi Mfume. And just one said no, in a voice as loud and unequivocal as Cosby's: Michael Eric Dyson. Far from despairing or keeping silent about black issues that feel to many of us like existential riddles, Dyson savors them. He eats them for lunch. The 46-year-old University of Pennsylvania humanities professor is known for his sharp social and political analyses, his gift of metaphor and quick wit, all of which he deployed as Cosby's opponent in this new front in an old culture war.

In time came the predictable eruption of amens from the right and disavowals from the left, as well as demurrals from those who staked out a middle ground in deciding that Cosby was right, but overly righteous. Yet everybody black knew this discussion was not about politics, it was about us. What troubled me most was not the iteration of problems"”God knows we've heard them all before"”but how Cosby repeatedly laid them at the feet of "these people," an ill-defined demographic that he felt free to openly ridicule at points. It was a distinction of class but also a discomfiting echo of age-old racist and paternalistic descriptions of all blacks, a reminder that try as we might, there's a good number of us"”say, 25%"”who will never, ever assimilate because we simply don't have the goods.

This is one reason why a lot of black people, both famous and non-, have had opinions about what Cosby said but have been reluctant to go into details; even the majority who nodded agreement dared not say why, at least not for attribution. The most they would say was that they shared a widespread exasperation with the general brokenness of the race and the failure to fix things, leaving the rest to that vast rhetorical question that blows us apart and binds us together in the same moment: Why we got to be like this?

michael eric dyson is an ace rhetorician"”he's a baptist minister, too"”but not in the service of reticence, especially on this issue. The title of his new book is therefore a pair of blunt and distinctly un-rhetorical questions: "Is Bill Cosby Right? Or Has the Black Middle Class Lost Its Mind?" Dyson says that while he has never had any problems with Cosby or anybody else raising questions or getting mad"”indeed, he thinks we ought to do both"”he does have a problem with sloppy analyses that waylay discussions about real solutions. Which is why he sat down and began writing almost as soon as Cosby stepped down from the podium last year.

Like me, Dyson was most put off by Cosby's offhand condemnation of the least-moneyed, least-educated blacks as "these people" and as the primary source of all that's gone wrong. He says that if we're going to apportion blame, there's plenty to go around, starting with a black middle class that's been busy decoupling its interests from those of the lower class for several decades now and thereby steadily undermining the fortunes of the entire race. And don't get him started on the broader context of America"”why should Cosby vilify blacks as anti-intellectual, he asks, when most of the high school seniors in the country can't find France on a map? " 'These people'"”that's distressing," Dyson muses in a phone interview from Philadelphia. "If he had said 'nigga,' that would have been better. That's actually kinship. 'Hey, nigga!' But 'these people' is worse."

Dyson is eloquent but plain-spoken, a quintessential post-New Negro who uses academic rigor, pop-culture savvy and biblical insight to frame book-length dissections of black issues and the larger meaning of figures such as Martin Luther King Jr., Tupac Shakur and Marvin Gaye. He is the most astute of a growing number of black academics who embrace hip-hop as an extension of many important black traditions and cultural practices, an inherently controversial position that reflects many of the same class tensions he discusses in his latest book. The Cosby incident simply gave him an appropriate moment to explore an intra-racial divide that looks like class on the surface but just underneath is really many divides"”generational, psychological, communal, aesthetic. Dyson considers the comedian's remarks line by line, starting each chapter with extended quotes and holding up their unsparing sentiments to equally unsparing examination. A chapter on "Family Values" looks at the idealized Cosby's own less-than-ideal upbringing and how it compares with the dynamics of the larger black family. "Speaking of Race"”Or Not" lays out the history of Cosby's triumphant comedy career and how it fits a pattern of racial compromise that black performers have made, or have been forced to make, since the days of ragtime.

By the end of the book"”well, halfway through"”it's hard not to conclude that Cosby, for all his righteous anger, was way off the mark. Time and again Dyson cites studies, statistics and surveys that, contrary to Cosby's dire assessments, reveal poor and working-class blacks to be patriotic, socially conservative, hard-working, optimistic and much less likely to blame the white man or "the system" for their troubles than most people believe. He is careful to laud Cosby for his own role in black history and for his racial philanthropy"”he's given millions over the years to historically black colleges and universities"”but insists that philanthropy doesn't buy him the right or confer on him the expertise to make sweeping statements about black people as if they're fact and/or gospel. "I admire Cosby"”his giving money is peerless," Dyson says. "We talked for an hour and a half, and I said I embrace and love him. But there's a non-transferability of genius on this point. I told him I had to oppose him, but it was ideological, not personal."

Dyson's new book has not enjoyed the effusive reception of his previous titles, and the reviews have often read more like responses to the latest referendum on race and empowerment. Newsweek's Ellis Cose cited Dyson's eloquence, but also chided him for bothering to take apart"”in 250 pages, no less"”so simplistic a social theory as Cosby's. The New Republic accused Dyson of falsifying the whole debate by misusing the notion of "elitism," which reviewer Reihan Salam suggested has been twisted around 180 degrees by newfangled liberals such as Dyson to mean not the black upper-crust or middle class but the black poor, who have been too long miscast and ennobled "as rebels against a deeply corrupt social order."

For his part, Cosby has taken his ideology on the road, holding town-hall meetings ("call-outs," he calls them) with black audiences across the country. Dyson calls it Cosby's "Blame-the-Poor Tour," and his own media presence in the last year on talk shows and panels"”and now on a book tour"”is a conscious counteroffensive to what he regards as a campaign of misinformation. "[Cosby is] making all these critical comments about black folk, but he has no self-critique," Dyson says. "For instance, he complains about the consumerism problem, yet he's part of it""”as a pitchman for Jell-O, Ford and other companies. "One of the most racist beliefs is because you're black, you know black. You know everything about slavery, reparations, all that. Not true, but nobody calls you on it because black people don't rate any further study." Instead, the nuances of racial debate are left to "experts" such as Cosby.

Yet Dyson knows he is dealing mainly with an emotional, not an intellectual, issue. Cosby snapped, and even the most resolute Afrocentrics among us understood. None of us need to read a single statistic to know that too many African Americans are falling by the wayside and that too little is being done to keep them on track. Cosby's tirade therefore provoked questions that are not sociological, but spiritual: Who's responsible, and what should we do? More profoundly, where, and with whom, do we cast our lot?

Ultimately, Dyson's data, surveys and historical analyses argue not for the reader's political conversion, but for his or her compassion. The book does that most persuasively in a chapter titled "Classrooms and Cell Blocks," which, among other things, reprints written evaluations from a group of young black people Dyson once counseled in a detention center and jail. "To me the author change the way I think," wrote one young man. "When he gave his speech I thought in my mind I need to start doing right and stay out of trouble and stop coming to jail." Another declared, "I used to think reading was only for entertainment but now I read for inteligents." Putting human faces and foibles to those whom Cosby derisively called "it" suddenly makes his remarks seem a lot less courageous and the situation a lot more complicated.

The worst thing, Dyson says, is that Cosby understands that, or did once. The book quotes from interviews dating back to the '60s in which Cosby acknowledged, if not downright emphasized, ongoing social and historical factors that have contributed to black problems. Not an uncommon view, but remarkable for a man who built a successful career and public image on minimizing race in general, and blackness in particular. "Cosby knows educational inequity and racism," Dyson says. "He's too smart not to know. He has culpable ignorance." So might Cosby simply be a crusader who got mugged by the criminally slow pace of change and flipped orthodoxies in middle age, a black version of David Horowitz? Dyson says maybe, but there's more to it than that. "He could be deeply conservative, but most of us are conservative," he says. "But by making his stuff look exceptional""”by deliberately setting himself apart from the rest of us"”"he's not acknowledging that. Why?"

Dyson is not out to name haters or heroes. He appreciates Cosby's speaking up and empathizes with his sense of frustration, even anguish, about the unsuccessful among us; the problem for him is that Cosby "got angry at them, not with them." Dyson says he did not want to slam the comedian nearly as much as he wanted to strenuously argue, as he always does, for the complexity of the modern black condition, especially internal struggles over class, character and image that have been simmering since Reconstruction but in 2005 are boiling over, partly because nobody wants those things to matter as much as they still do. Complexities like these are rarely given room in public dialogues about race, a persistent sin of omission that Dyson says is at the heart of American racism.

"Black people are almost never given the benefit of the doubt, because to do so would be presuming complexity and depth that we don't have, right?" he says a bit testily. "If I can just complexify things""”his term"”"that'd be good. I've got to keep eroding that stone of monolithism." To that end, Dyson uses his book to discuss the "simultaneity" of black thought"”the embrace of seemingly contradictory ideas that, together, give us the clearest and most honest picture of how things are. The thoroughly mixed messages about race that we've gotten over the years require that we do nothing less. Dyson puts it this way: "We say things that are true, but at the same time we say they're wrong"”O.J. did it, but Mark Fuhrman tried to frame a guilty man. There's always been a lag between the complex reality and the simple conversations about us. I'm just asking black people to honor that."

I would say that most of us do, even those who say they agree with Cosby in the main. T.D. Jakes, the popular TV preacher who has helped introduce overtly moral themes in mainstream books and film (such as last year's "Woman, Thou Art Loosed"), concludes in Dyson's book that "while black introspection is crucial to healing, it is half the solution." Richard Yarborough, a professor of English and African American studies at UCLA, tells me he is less perturbed by what Cosby said than by what black comics typically say every night of the week. "Cosby didn't say anything different than what Chris Rock said in his 'niggers' monologue""”in which Rock famously detailed the differences between black people and "niggers""”"and they're both pretty insensitive and brutal to me," Yarborough says. "But nothing he said was anything I haven't heard. We should use this as an opportunity to talk about issues, quickly get beyond the occasion and who said it. Class is not the idea that contains us all."

It doesn't help that Cosby refuses to expand the boundaries of what he's really talking about, which isn't the dereliction of the black poor but something bigger: ghettoism. Ghettoism is about the manners and mores of all black people and how they play to white folks, and it used to be that being deemed "ghetto" was a high insult. But with the explosion and exploitation of hip-hop and thug life, there has been such a mad rush to ghettoism through music, fashion, slang and the like that it has become awfully tough"”and more than a little hypocritical"”to argue that people living the reality are doing, or being, anything wrong. The promiscuity and materialism that Cosby seems to think are emanating exclusively from the black poor are the raw ore of what I call the American ghetto-industrial complex, a vast array of entertainment-related businesses that includes record labels, movie studios, advertising companies, book publishers and video producers.

And ghettoism is global. Echoing the New Republic's Reihan Salam, Jonetta Rose Barnes of the Washington Post complained in a Cosby critique that too many poor blacks buy into "defective cultural narratives" that tell them the only way to be authentically black and socially significant is to live poor and in a ghetto. But as Dyson says, that's a statement that has the benefit of being true without being informative. Let's be real: The "defective cultural narrative" is not a story that blacks are telling each other, but that the ghetto-industrial complex is telling the world every day. Everybody, it seems, wants to be black. We"”and I'm speaking of black folk too"”affect the rebel gangsta qualities we attribute to the black poor casually and shamelessly; Simon & Schuster just issued "Hold My Gold: A White Girl's Guide to the Hip-Hop World," a sprightly sounding how-to book that is nothing less than old-fashioned, fetishistic racism dressed up in the thin clothes of modern-day irony. As Dyson says, if we are going to parcel out blame for the blasé acceptance of the black poor and prison-bound, please, let's do it fairly. Surely a celebrity such as Cosby, who has played the game of image all his life, can see the role of the media in this mess.

He does"”but only a little, and only when pressed. Cosby didn't want to be quoted for this piece, though we spoke for nearly an hour on the phone in what was doubtless the most intriguing and unsatisfying interview I've ever done. It was not really an interview but a lecture fashioned from his original remarks, delivered by Cosby with his publicist on the line, a white man, to ensure that I didn't misunderstand his edicts about the black experience. At first I was thrilled that Cosby sounded exactly like the lovably ornery über-dad from TV, the pasha of Jell-O pudding that most of us recall fondly. Then it struck me that this was real life and that Cosby was not interested in a real dialogue or reconciliation, as Cliff Huxtable would have been. He wanted not to talk but to set me straight; I knew that if I disagreed with him more than mildly, the "talk" would be over.

Cosby was wholly disdainful of Dyson in a way I found disheartening, but also illuminating"”in the end, Dyson to him is not a compatriot or even a worthy opponent but one of "these people," not uneducated or ghetto but just the wrong kind of black. I realized, finally, that Cosby is angry not about schisms of class or culture or language, but about blackness itself. He's angry that it takes up so much of his time, that it does not seem to be self-sustaining and that it needs so much, too much, to grow and prosper and to get right. He's angry that at the moment blackness, for all its outrageous ubiquity, is declining into a quiet apocalypse. Never a settled matter, blackness now feels horribly inefficient, slippery, not our own, wandering off in a wrong direction the moment we take our eyes off it, falling out of the census here, ballooning to grotesque proportions there. Deep down we'd all love to ignore our color, as we're increasingly admonished to do. But we can't. We shouldn't. The world, and our own consciences"”which Cosby has, or else he wouldn't have bothered to say anything at all"”won't let us.

Dyson says that such vigilance is a good thing, a necessary thing. Yes, there's racial fatigue. Yes, there are days when we'd all like to be something and somebody else, to shuffle off this marked skin that constantly demands a coherent position and point of view, whether we've got one or not. Dyson keeps returning to the difficulties of identity in his book, like the chorus of a song, once in a discussion about degrees of blackness that he categorizes as "accidental," "incidental" and "intentional." (Cosby mostly falls into the first group, Dyson says, though not always.) The point is that black people must constantly think about where and who we are, and it's exhausting. It's also deeply rewarding when we get it right. "We don't have a choice in being," Dyson says. "We have to choose one state of existence or another."

Dyson and Cosby may be living on different streets right now, but they're in the same neighborhood. On my best days I dare to believe that's only a couple of steps away from both of them, from all of us, being home.

*

(BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX)

What He Said

From Bill Cosby's original remarks, May 17, 2004

Ladies and gentlemen, listen to these people, they are showing you what's wrong. People putting their clothes on backwards"”isn't that a sign of something going on wrong? [Laughter.] Are you not paying attention? People with their hat on backwards, pants down around the crack. Isn't that a sign of something, or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up? [Laughter and applause.] Isn't it a sign of something when she's got her dress all the way up to the crack and got all kinds of needles and things going through her body? What part of Africa did this come from? [Laughter.] We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a damned thing about Africa. With names like Shaniqua, Shaligua, Mohammed and all that crap, and all of them are in jail.

Brown vs. Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem. We've got to take the neighborhood back. [Applause.] We've got to go in there. Just forget telling your child to go to the Peace Corps. It's right around the corner. [Laughter.] It's standing on the corner. It can't speak English. It doesn't want to speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk. "Why you ain't where you is go, ra." I don't know who these people are. And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. [Laughter.] Then I heard the father talk.

This is all in the house. You used to talk a certain way on the corner, and you got into the house and switched to English. Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't land a plane with "Why you ain't. . . ." You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth. There is no Bible that has that language. Where did these people get the idea that they're moving ahead on this? Well, they know they're not, they're just hanging out in the same place, five, six generations sitting in the projects when you're supposed to stay there long enough to get a job and move out.
I am thinking about the whole Bill Cosby comment about how " the black underclass is immoral and lazy" and I am wondering why black people gave him any attention- Cosby is just a comedian and celebrity...


Did anyone catch Micheal Eric Dyson and a bunch of other authors on C-span this weekend.... I can't stand Dyson but he makes good points sometimes....
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
I am thinking about the whole Bill Cosby comment about how " the black underclass is immoral and lazy" and I am wondering why black people gave him any attention- Cosby is just a comedian and celebrity...


Did anyone catch Micheal Eric Dyson and a bunch of other authors on C-span this weekend.... I can't stand Dyson but he makes good points sometimes....


I did. I thought it was excellent.

I got impatient with the moderator.

I thought it very interesting that one of the panelists, who said she was a longtime admirer, stated her dissatisfaction with the timing of Cosby's statements.

It seemed she was saying that other than timing she was okay with it.

This is the hardest look at ourselves we have taken in a long time.


PEACE

Jim Chester
My mother, bought this book. I picked it up and started to read it. Shall we say that the very people the Michael wants to champion cannot even read the book.

I say, with out ego, that I have an extensive lexicon, but even I had to think about the words he was using. IMHO, the problem is that we, as Black people, have a hard time with dealing with classism because it was always used against us. House Slave v. Field Slave, Light v. Brown v. Dark, big lips v. full lips v. thin lips, and my all time favorite, Good Hair v. Nappy Hair.... the list goes on but you get my point.

It seems that every other group can take self-criticism but us. Why do we defend the people who give us a bad image? What do we rally behind those that reject intelligent conversation and would prefer just to listen to the beat? Why do we allow the various beautiful art forms of African Dance to be demonized as 'street' dance.

Our heritage was stripped from us but we have in this modern centruy allowed the bottom rung of our society, the criminals, illiterates and morally corrupt, to define us as a race to the world.

Before anyone starts to rant, there is nothing, I repeat nothing wrong with growing up poor. Most of us grew up poor and then moved on from it so that we would want to participate in a forum like AA, have nice living accommodations and discretionary income to purchase computers that have DSL. But, there is a big problem with people who think poverty is a way of life. There is a big problem with people who would rather hang on the corner than read a book. There is an even bigger problem with people who think the public housing is a way of life as opposed to being a time to save so that you can move on.

I got into an argument with a Family Court Judge who said that he grew up in public housing [ note he is now a judge and making in excess of $150k per year with 6 weeks paid vacation] because I was arguing for shared custody. My client had a single family home, 3 beds, 1.5 baths, he lived alone, his daughter had her own room with a full sized bed at his house. The mother aka Baby Mama, lived in a two bedroom public housing unit with their daughter, her son by another man, her daughter by another man, her brother 29 years old by the way [just out of the joint.... for the past 3 years] and the children's maternal grandmother. The parties' daughter shared a bunk bed with her sister. My argument was that the mother's home was congested seemed like a no-brainer to me.

My point, it should not even be a question that this child needs to be with her father full time but in New Jersey the best we can do is get shared custody. Had the Baby Mama in this case not had so many children, maybe she would have been able to move out of Public Housing and into an apartment or house where she can have some room to live in comfort.

My point about Michael's book, he is just mad that Bill said it in a way that is making people listen and because Bill said it people are listening. Bill is right. Michael, the Poverty Pimp is wrong, dead wrong on this issue. The Black Middle Class has not lost its mind, we have finally awakened from the nightmare of denial to the light of truth.
quote:
Originally posted by Nikcara:
My point about Michael's book, he is just mad that Bill said it in a way that is making people listen and because Bill said it people are listening. Bill is right. Michael, the Poverty Pimp is wrong, dead wrong on this issue. The Black Middle Class has not lost its mind, we have finally awakened from the nightmare of denial to the light of truth.


thanks thanks thanks
MIKE DYSON spoke the TRUTH!! Right Ebony? bsm

I mean, tell me where he was "WRONG"??

Say all the Thank You's you want but I don't see anyone backing up their claims here or saying anything more than their emotion laden opinions - i.e. sentiments devoid of any analysis.

So, COSBY said something you like.
That's what you need to say and leave it at that.

quote:
The Black Middle Class has not lost its mind, we have finally awakened from the nightmare of denial to the light of truth.
BULLSHIT Rheotic... COSBY wasn't castigating The Black Middle Class. And, really? The Black Middle Class has "finally awakened" to what? What is the Black Middle Class doing after this long awaited awakening from their Slumber Of "Denial"?

What has the Black Middle Class been in "Denial" of? What woke them up? The WHITE CONservative Political Conventional Winds? As stated, COSBY remarks are rhetorically the same as the MOST racist White sentiments.

Cosby: "GOOD IS TIRED OF YOU!"
Anyone got confirmation from Jehovah, Jah, Allah, etc., etc. on this? Is that a direct quote? Like the stuff in the Old Testament? Bill Cosby is a preacher isn't he?

LMBAO!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
I am thinking about the whole Bill Cosby comment about how " the black underclass is immoral and lazy" and I am wondering why black people gave him any attention- Cosby is just a comedian and celebrity...


Did anyone catch Micheal Eric Dyson and a bunch of other authors on C-span this weekend.... I can't stand Dyson but he makes good points sometimes....


I did. I thought it was excellent.

I got impatient with the moderator.

I thought it very interesting that one of the panelists, who said she was a longtime admirer, stated her dissatisfaction with the timing of Cosby's statements.

It seemed she was saying that other than timing she was okay with it.

This is the hardest look at ourselves we have taken in a long time.


PEACE

Jim Chester


That bothered me as well.... I don't care if white people heard what Bill Cosby said or the timing when he said it..... It's What he said that matters..... His tirade was filled with stereotypes of poor black people...

How does having the name shaniqua make you less of a person? How does being poor automatically make you promiscuous?????

I don't like Micheal Eric Dyson either.... He is just trying to sell books and likes to hear his self speak!

He did make some good points, but he is trying to glorify poverty and is a failure apologist.......
Originally posted by Nikcara:
IMHO, the problem is that we, as Black people, have a hard time with dealing with classism because it was always used against us.

What makes you say "we" have a hard time dealing with classism when referencing Dyson when he specifically addressed or detailed the history of classism in the Black Community?

How do you suggest we "deal" with Classicism, effectively? Because I don't get your point.

It seems that every other group can take self-criticism but us.

And you've done, researched or seen a substantive analysis of the rates of Self-Criticism racial/ethnic groups in America that shows how "we can't take it" as well as others? Apparently, you missed this:

If white america had a bill Cosby

And I beg to differ. I seriously don't think you've even considered or measured in any reasonable way how other groups deal with Classicism or Self-Criticism. Note: All people don't have to respond the same way. As noted in the link above, let some White person talk about Whiteness Studies, etc., etc. and see how much Self-Criticism Whites, e.g., can take WITHOUT Defending those who give them a "bad name". Case In Point: The "Founding Fathers"...

Why do we defend the people who give us a bad image?

Besides questioning who all you're characterizing in this "WE" and what you are calling a "defense" of/for those who "give us a Bad Image"... OBVIOUSLY YOU DIDN'T READ MUCH OF DYSON'S BOOK!

You will note, if you did, that your statement is indicative of what Dyson alluded to when he documented the history of post-Slavery Classism in the Black Community. Indicative in a not so flattering way. In a your statement reeks of the "Afro-Aristocratic" sort of way. Dyson was clear in saying the Black Middle/Upper Class then was quick to talk about them Lower Economic Class Negroes who gave them a "bad image".

Our heritage was stripped from us but we have in this modern centruy allowed the bottom rung of our society, the criminals, illiterates and morally corrupt, to define us as a race to the world.

You speak of and obviously accept the imposed Black Man's Burden where any and every individual wrong of any individual Black person is made to be a blemish, a wrong of the whole Race. Further, it is rather simplistic, naive and plain non-observant to say "WE" have allowed those "bad" things to be the "image" of our race.

That obviously have everything to do with your inability to investigate and examine things beyond the surface. To cast all the blame on "us" is to give White America a pass for their unrelenting and racist Image Tagging.

Also, given that no other group has the bear the Race Representing Burden that "we" do, you might actually want to reexamine what amount of Self-Criticism others can take in comparison to us. Without that Burden (to the same extent or to the same degree), it is completely irresponsible to act like there is some comparison in terms of the contexts of Self-Criticism.

What you fail to realize, it seems, is that the very "defenses" you perceive and characterize as an inability to deal with Self-Criticism (or Classism) are the very function of this Black Man's Burden -- the reaction-response to it.

Obviously, you're having difficulty dealing with the issue if you can't see that.

quote:
...there is a big problem with people who think poverty is a way of life. There is a big problem with people who would rather hang on the corner than read a book. There is an even bigger problem with people who think the public housing is a way of life as opposed to being a time to save so that you can move on.
VOICING SENTIMENTS WITHOUT CONVICTION...
Talking about problems without examining root causes... Now that's a COSBY-ism.
Nmaginate,

We have already discussed why bill cosby was intellectually lazy with what he said..and how sweeping generalizations of black people on the basis of being black people is some stupid schit. Black people do not do anything anyone else does....and before some people get their panties in a bunch I am not excusing f-ked up behvior on the part of black people. But since we are the most publicly self-castigating azz people, it would have been fair for bill to include what environmental, political and social factors contribute to pathological behaviors in blacks...and anyone else..instead of singling poor blacks out in a general way..but not even addressing the unique social situations that formed large poor azz violent and crime ridden communities...namely lack of educational and employment opportunities.......so bill did not say shit no one else has not said before.......but for some untold reason Bill saying it tended to make it seem original and unique in the minds of some.....and that is what I do not understand......
quote:
we are the most publicly self-castigating azz people
You know, KEVIN, you would think some Black people would realize this and calculate that in their ideas of why it seems as if "we don't deal with Self-Criticism well", etc., etc.

The Black Middle Class, or should I say most COSBY-ites, suffer from the Disconnect Syndrome. There is a reason(s) why White people feel it's natural for them to comment on any and everything that has something to do with Black people "offering" their advise, registering their unsolicited comments or purposely seeking Black sites, e.g., just to castigate no matter how ignorant x 2 they happen to be -- i.e. (1) not knowing what they're talking about and (2) talking arrogantly about shit they either don't know about or purposely mischaracterizing things out of an ulterior motive.

Some Black folk act like they are ignorant. Ignorant about how all this plays out in society. Ignorant... and BLIND because they refuse to see anything beyond their own narrow sentiments. With this as but one example, one analogy... I think you (Cosby-ites) can get my point:

quote:
Chris Rock jokes about how there are differences between Blacks and Niggers and proceeds to tell the world that he hates Niggers. The audience cracks up laughing, but the problem is that the white man in the back of the audience is vice president of the company you work for and he won't promote you because HE ALSO believes there's a difference between Blacks and Niggers and he thinks YOU may be just like that Nigger Chris Rock.

Still funny?

Back to your point KEVIN... No one can contend with what you said. It is the unquestionable truth. Matter of fact, a prime example of that was evident in the Harlem Book Festival symposium on C-SPAN this past weekend.

The panel with Kevin Powell and Ron Walters. Towards the end they had a little "generational" spat where Powell repeated "interrupted" Walters in an effort to stop Walters for presumably laying undue blame on the Hip Hop Generation for not fostering a formidable Social Change movement... or something to that effect.

Anyway... the C-Span caller's response period after the symposium had one White Caller respond with some curious comments to the effect that Black people should learn how to discuss things without being so emotional. The White Caller offered that as a suggestion that would help "us" better able to arrive at some (re)solutions...

Now, mind you, the caller was somewhat respectful and didn't sound particularly condescending. In fact, his tone was, perhaps, "genuine". My point is... KEVIN you are more than On Point.

Since NIKARA, e.g., wants to make comparisons... THERE EXIST NO OTHER PEOPLE WHOSE LIVES ARE MORE OF AN OPEN BOOK THAN BLACK PEOPLE... And, yes, that's a big factor in the whole "Self-Criticism" dynamics. Hell, we are The Most Criticized, analyzed, dissected, Lab Rat of a people as there are on the face of the earth.

Anyway... The White Caller on C-Span referenced the Walters - Powell momentary verbal scuffle. You know, the usual:
Walters: "One thing the Hip Hop Generation..."
Powell: "Now, there you go..."
Walters: "Wait, let me finish..."
Powell: "I'm not going to let you..."
Walters: "Let me... I didn't interrupt you..."
Powell: "But, I'm not about to let you..."
Walters: "I didn't interrupt you..."
Powell: "I'm not going to let you..."
Walters: "What I was going to say was..."

Now, besides this exchange not even registering a 2 on a 7 point scale in terms the level of viciousness in the arguments of panelists when compared to those who appear on Fox News, e.g.,... Me, being the C-Span junkie that I am, it's not like this was the first time panels on C-Span had speakers interrupting each other and with vigor (though, again, this exchange was rather tamed).

Now, it was especially curious for the White Caller to act like the "interrupting" thing was something unique to Black people or something Black people were/are particularly given to. Perhaps he missed the Bill O'Reilly vs. Al Franken comedy (as in funny and so terribly sad) from a year or so ago.

Anyway, it's always funny to see how people like to RACIALIZE something like that when it is pervasive, as I have pointed out. We all see it on the White political news/discussion shows all the time... But it's even more tragic when Black people don't or better yet refuse to recognize that.
Last edited {1}
You would swear that schit is rocket science what we are talking about....I never knew that sooo many black people lacked independent thought and are programmed to view themselves the way whites tell them they are viewed. Listening to some of these people in here really gives me the impression that they think blacks are inferior themselves....when there is not one gotdamn thing a person can name as exclusive to black people....I will discuss specific black people behaving in undesirable ways....but as long as the dialogue is framed around the premise of being a "black thing" without being totally inclusive in terms of causation, I will reject it....because I know better....I will never let self-loathing azz negroes or racist whites normalize THEIR image of black people in my head......you would think they would be smart enough to not allow the behavior of individual blacks be presented to them as indicative of traits of the whole race......and allow people like Tim Mcveigh to blow up a whole fucking building and not ever hear of crew cut midwestern whites or militias or separatists even get considered as domestic terrorists.....man we are lucky some of us have our heads on straight.....because some of these people would be picking cotton and singing songs because whites are smiling at them while they do it.....i never knew some of us lived in such deference to others...and like you said....allow themselves to be scrutinized by others for their satisfaction....but not have damn thing to say about those demonstrating the very same behaviors.....i'll be glad when many of us really quit believing and acting as if we are an inferior people......'sigh'
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
So, COSBY said something you like.
That's what you need to say and leave it at that.


It would seem as if you are the one that can't leave it alone, Nmaginate. Geeezzz. Frown

Did Michael Eric Dyson tell the truth? Confused Hell, I don't know!! I don't even like listening to the man half the time, so I'm certainly not going to spend any money on a book written by him!! If he told the truth, Hallelujah!! May it give you a warm, fuzzy feeling inside! Eek I really don't care.

But I know what Bill Cosby said. And you may not like it, but you haven't been able to dispute it either!

I sincerely hope this answers your "TRUTH" question (that you have asked me about a hundred times now!), so that you can move on and perhaps find another subject to irritate me about. Roll Eyes I have. And this repetition is getting tedious.
I sincerely hope this answers your "TRUTH" question (that you have asked me about a hundred times now!), so that you can move on and perhaps find another subject to irritate me about.

Ebony, as much as you may want it to be. This isn't about YOU. Your ideas, maybe... but, as we see, they aren't exclusive to you.

Also, you wouldn't be "irritated" if you had an answer. And we can tell by your statements, you still don't!

Did Michael Eric Dyson tell the truth? Hell, I don't know!! >>>>> COP OUT!

If he told the truth, Hallelujah!! ...I really don't care. >>>>> PATHETIC!

Seems to me if you're going to voice an opinion and say to the question asked that "Cosby Is Right" and, by extension (if not directly) that "Dyson Is Wrong" then your attitude here indicts or lessens the value of your very position - i.e. hardly credible...

...I know what Bill Cosby said... you haven't been able to dispute it either!

As I have shown you, since you want to play this silly game, TWO CAN PLAY.
Show me where you have "disputed" Dyson?

Ummm.... "I Don't Know" and "I Don't Care"... DON'T CUT IT!!

But on COSBY, unless you got some special Hot Line Confirmation from the Almighty GOD... I think I have refuted more than enough of Cosby madness and ridiculous RHETORIC. Internalized, Demonizing RHETORIC! But, it's okay if you like those kind of JACK LEG preachers! lol

And, as far as REPETITION... as long as you and others repeat the requisite lunacy I will continue to repeat those uncomfortable, irritating fact-points and counterpoints that make you want to quit.... and "move one"....

I guess I would to if my every argument could be turned back against me in a way that I would just COP OUT. Anyway...

May it give you a warm, fuzzy feeling inside!

Whenever you get a clue... you will figure out this really isn't about such silly emotions and me wanting a "warm and fuzzy" feeling. sck

But go ahead... Keep making those same lame statements.
ON COSBY:

quote:
"My problem with what Cosby has been saying -- and how he has been saying it -- is that he seems to believe that the failure he sees is willful: that if black teenagers would use better language, and if their parents insisted on more discipline, their prospects would be greatly improved and that they know it. .... Screaming at the parents of street-seduced children that they should exert more discipline isn't enough. These parents -- often single mothers -- mostly don't know how to exert effective discipline, and they lack the wherewithal to relocate to a part of town where such discipline may be easier. I believe that both young people and their parents can do what Cosby wants them to do, but I also believe that their failure to do so is not volitional. Some people, under the worst of circumstances, will find their way. But most of us have to be taught how to act even in our own interest. ....So how about it, Cos? A little less yelling -- and a little more coaching?"

What Cosby Should Say. William Raspberry. The Washington Post, November 22, 2004.

http://www.blackprogress.net/cosby-indictment.htm
Now, I say RASBERRY is right, more or less, and COSBY IS WRONG!!

My refutation? If Cosby is right then the BOOTSTRAP THEORY has and always will be "right" under any circumstances... and Affirmative Action nor Reparations should have never or should never be a consideration.

IF Cosby is right...
"you wouldn't know that anybody [in the Civil Rights Movement] had done a damned thing. 50 percent drop out rate..."

Tell me where this 50% drop out rate is he was referring to?

RIGHT = CORRECT
Last edited {1}
Nmaginate: I had a discussion with a wise friend and colleague of mine, who suggests that people have free will and thus should be held to that standard.

Now these are my thoughts, if the Baby Moma that I discussed previously had shown some restraint, she would not have three children by three different men. She may have one, and I will give her a pass on the first child. The second and third children she is responsible. There is nothing wrong with enjoying sex, there is something wrong with creating life and not giving that life a chance to succeed.

Single mothers do not get a pass for enlarging their fold of children. There are many single mother's who only have one child and raise that single child to be successful. There are other single mother's who have children to supplement their income via child support. These women are often on drugs during their pregnancies and give birth to drug addicted babies who have the same withdrawal symptoms as an adult. The exposure to controlled substances in utero is devastating to a developing brain and body.

Single fathers do not get a pass for enlarging their fold of children. There are many single father's who only have one child and raise that child to be successful. There are other single father's who have children with multiple women as a demonstration of their sexual prowess. These men often do not pay child support. These men are often in jail for extensive periods of time. These men sometimes chose quit a job rather than pay child support and some never spend any time with their children.

The inappropriate behaviors of single parent's describe above are the norm, the appropriate behavior of the one time single parent is what is unique and that is the sad part.

We need to call a spade a spade. The cycle of behavior will never stop unless we as Black people start to say, this is unacceptable. It should never be kool for a 14 year old girl to have a baby. It should never be kool for a 25 year old to have five children when she started at 14.

Unfortunately, there will always be people like you and Michael who say don't disparage the people at the bottom. The people at the bottom live in a country that with effort, you can have a nice life. Everybody is not going to be rich but you do not have to be poor. You do not have to live in public housing, you do not have to be on welfare, you do not have to have multiple children out of wedlock. Children are expensive. Children are precious. Just because you can physically create a child does not make you a parent. Just because you are a parent does not make you a good parent. Though our country and especially our people say we value children, our acts belie the true to that very folksy sentiment.

If we truly valued children we would be very careful about when we have them. We would not use child birth as a symbol of respect or status.

Why do we glamorize actresses and singers who are scantily clad. What do we glamorize actors and singers who portray themselves as criminals engaging in criminal conduct or prisoners. When we as Black people stop using the bottom rung of our society as our poster children, or stop allowing others to do so we will see a dramatic change in the behavior of that same bottom rung. Standing up for them without telling them that their behavior is destructive makes them believe that their behavior is appropriate and that it can continue.

Ice Mountain climbers come in all stripes. Young, old, in shape and in ok shape, but they all know one thing, and it is this: Sometimes you have to cut the rope, often the person who slipped is the one who cuts it, other times it is the people just above who know that if they do not cut the rope the person above them will. Bill Cosby just cut the rope and many, me included, are saying it was harsh but fair. Michael Dyson on the other hand wants us all to continue to be pulled down while he makes money on the trip.
quote:
Unfortunately, there will always be people like you and Michael who say don't disparage the people at the bottom.
In other words, you have nothing relevant to say.

"DISPARAGE??"

Yes!! That's exactly what I would call the Cosby-isms. Not CORRECTIVE but Bootleg, JACK LEG preacher type of "disparaging"...

Yeah, shit will really get solved by SAYING... SAYING things like that.

Again, you keep talking about "WE" but you have yet to demonstrate how "WE" defend people who give "us" a bad image.

Where is my "defense" of bad behavior?
... as in me saying, "It's alright. They have every right to be drug dealers. Leave them alone."

See? See how ridiculous your claims are.
Ummm.. and WHERE is your data on how other people deal with Classism and Self-Criticism.

I'll be back to illustrate how your perceptions are so terribly off-base and skewed. That is, unless you can establish how you are qualified to speak to how other people "seem" to be better able to deal with Self-Criticism, etc.

quote:
Sometimes you have to cut the rope, often the person who slipped is the one who cuts it, other times it is the people just above who know that if they do not cut the rope the person above them will. Bill Cosby just cut the rope and many, me included, are saying it was harsh but fair. Michael Dyson on the other hand wants us all to continue to be pulled down while he makes money on the trip.
Save the BS rhetoric. First, how did Cosby cut this "rope"?

What? You're saying we're fully adopting White people's idea of THROW AWAY people? You know, they have White Trash and, now, we (too) should have BLACK TRASH?

Ummm.... thanks for the insight.
Now demonstrate how this is going to "help" or solve anything. This... Ya'll On Your Own shit?

Is that what this is about?

I mean, you pretended like you read Dyson's book but you speak as if you didn't read a single damn thing. And, again, save the RHETORIC. Silly sentiments as rhetoric. Sentinments Without Conviction.
Ignorance, misplaced priorites, unhealthy behaviors, etc are not exclusive to the poor. There are Black folks from all walks of life and income-levels that engage in counter-productive behavior. Bill Cosby doesn't need to look any further than his own face to find a law-breaking, poorly-educated "embarassment to the race."

I would never get behind anyone who preaches "cutting loose" our own flesh and blood (and we are all connected as Black folks). What exactly is embarassing about these people? Are we so very concerned with what image Massa has of us that we want to cut loose our own brothers and sisters? nono Concern for their well-being, I can dig. Embarassment and ridicule and sweeping generalizations about the poor, is very disturbing. Nikcara and EbonyRose, I hope I'm misinterpreting your sentiments. As always, Cosby can go straight to Hell.
quote:
But, I appreciate your sentiment!
Ha! Ha! Ha! And that's all it is. Nothing but SENTIMENTS VOICED WITHOUT CONVICTION. Or maybe that's the purpose... You know how your Good Church Folk act! lol

... All self-righteous!! Wink
And, ummm.... What FRENCHY said!!

quote:
Ignorance, misplaced priorites, unhealthy behaviors, etc are not exclusive to the poor. There are Black folks from all walks of life and income-levels that engage in counter-productive behavior.
And those of you (Church Folk) with your Bibles:
  • And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

  • But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    LUKE 12: 47-48
No quibble on who knows what... but I'd like to see the Black Middle Class and particularly all you Church Folk stand in judgement of the "To Whom Much Is Given" clause. Lest I return to my critique of how Cosby hasn't done shit to even begin to think he can talk.

But, I got something else for ya'll...

quote:
I'm saying Brown Vs. Board of Education. We've got to hit the streets, ladies and gentlemen...

I'm saying, look at the Black Muslims. There are Black Muslims standing on the street corners and they say so forth and so on... When you want to clear your neighborhood out, first thing you do is go get the Black Muslims... And your neighborhood is then clear. The police can't do it .
Hmmmm.... Now, IF Bill Cosby is right, if his is Speaking The Truth AND if Black Muslims, e.g., are, as he said, doing a Clean Up job the police can't do... Then where is the type of support from the Black Middle Class for the Black Muslims since ya'll Church Folk are so concerned about all that is dirty, dirty in the Black Community?

Also, the Black Muslims... the NOI, Min. Farrakhan... according to COSBY must be doing something right that the rest of ya'll (the rest of "us") aren't doing. And, truth be told, it seems like they have been doing it for quite some time.

Be that as it may, the most striking thing is, at least according to COSBY... they got the right idea and are actually DOING or HAVE DONE something about it. Though I could say a lot, I will just settle for a little cross-examination, self-reflection on the part of you Church Folk...

How about all ya'll... all ya'll compare your rhetoric, in total, to the ideas the NOI, them Black Muslims espouse and how they talk about Black "dysfunction" yet and still they also talk about the overall, overriding, overbearing social dsyfunction and disruption, etc., etc.

That is to say, they for sure aren't giving anybody a pass and have been talking about Baby's Mommas before the term was ever used. In other words, ya'll need to really analyze what it is about COSBY you think is "right". Because since he is not the first one who has ever said what he did, with the presumable reasons he did... then because I haven't heard ya'll Good Church Folk flockin' to the NOI or esteeming them as high as Cosby, let alone singing praises or making grand statements of support for people who have long since been doing things COSBY is only just now talking about... Well, let's just say it really reflects poorly on ya'll...

Hmmmm..... It must be that ya'll have lost ya'lls minds. Ya'll must think people are stupid not to see through this paper thin, superficial "concern"...

Seems to me, the COSBY-ites can't deal with CLASSISM.
quote:
But, I got something else for ya'll...


quote:
I'm saying Brown Vs. Board of Education. We've got to hit the streets, ladies and gentlemen...

I'm saying, look at the Black Muslims. There are Black Muslims standing on the street corners and they say so forth and so on... When you want to clear your neighborhood out, first thing you do is go get the Black Muslims... And your neighborhood is then clear. The police can't do it .
Hmmmm.... Now, IF Bill Cosby is right, if his is Speaking The Truth AND if Black Muslims, e.g., are, as he said, doing a Clean Up job the police can't do... Then where is the type of support from the Black Middle Class for the Black Muslims since ya'll Church Folk are so concerned about all that is dirty, dirty in the Black Community?

Also, the Black Muslims... the NOI, Min. Farrakhan... according to COSBY must be doing something right that the rest of ya'll (the rest of "us") aren't doing. And, truth be told, it seems like they have been doing it for quite some time.

Be that as it may, the most striking thing is, at least according to COSBY... they got the right idea and are actually DOING or HAVE DONE something about it. Though I could say a lot, I will just settle for a little cross-examination, self-reflection on the part of you Church Folk...

How about all ya'll... all ya'll compare your rhetoric, in total, to the ideas the NOI, them Black Muslims espouse and how they talk about Black "dysfunction" yet and still they also talk about the overall, overriding, overbearing social dsyfunction and disruption, etc., etc.



Hey Nmaginate,

Remember that eerie silence I was referring to....it is the same kind you get when you show a blkCon evidence of racism and improper behavior on the part of whites and you try to get them to acknowledge THAT truth......between that kind of behavior and illogical azz thinking they still try to act like they are not full of.. bs

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×