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Just something I wanted to talk about for a while. It just happened to come up today in a discussion elsewhere. No particular questions or comments from me except for me to ask what do you see as evidence of the types of Internalized Racism African-Americans exhibit?

Oh and maybe the direct and particular source of that IR.
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quote:
do you see as evidence of the types of Internalized Racism African-Americans exhibit?


Is this to say "Internalized Inferiority"?

If this is the case then YES.

I have been pointing out that IN MY VIEW the policies that Kevin and others espouse put forth the notion that Black people are unable to ORIENT ourselves - prioritizing our focus as a community and the resources that we have at our disposal to MAKE OUR K-12 education system that we have in our community work toward our maximum advantage. Instead we must ALWAYS make use of special consideration of the color of our skin when we come into direct competition with others - not just WHITE FOLKS but Indians and Orientals as well who don't need such assistance to gain admissions.

The viewpoint that we are "permanently damaged goods" due to American slavery will continue to be put forth most likely for a longer time than our ancestors were actually enslaved. It is the lack of a SYSTEM to afford the TRANSFORMATION of our CULTURE and CONSCIOUSNESS that is the problem. This allows certain thoughts and behaviors to be communicated across generational boundaries rather than being filtered out.

In my view this is an example of "Internalized Inferiority" as no real attempt to SERIOUSLY change our fate FROM WITHIN is ever made.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
In my view this is an example of "Internalized Inferiority" as no real attempt to SERIOUSLY change our fate FROM WITHIN is ever made.


Then what do you call the Civil Rights Movement, CF? You don't consider that an "attempt to SERIOUSLY change our fate FROM WITHIN"?

I mean, I'm just trying to understand why you continuously say things like that. It's as if you can give no credit to the achievements thusfar of Black people (who had to make those advancements on our own) presumably because it seems like you are so focused on what can and still needs to be done. Granted, we've still got a long ways to go, but we have definitely come a long way as well -- again with little/no help from anybody else. I mean, the transition from "animal" to CEO of major corporations is indeed a giant step forward.

Black people are not the helpless, unachieving, can't-do-anything-for-themselves, doormats that you are constantly alluding to. I'll grant you we lack unity and a sense of direction ... but, if you'll quit thinking we're sooooo pitiful, you may be able to see ways that we can improve upon our strengths and build on our achievements ... instead of browbeating us with "you're screwed up and will never amount to anything" type tactics.
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what do you see as evidence of the types of Internalized Racism African-Americans exhibit?

Oh and maybe the direct and particular source of that IR.---Nmaginate

I'm working on deciphering 'IR', but I think I get the drift.

First, I think we all know we 'do it' too. There is the defintion the 'racism' is discrimination with the ability (power) to make it true.

Knowing that, maybe what we are talking about is discrimination.

Maybe not.

We also know there are African American institutions that have, historically, excluded those of us who don't quite look like them.

The current trend comes to mind of African American-Americans who have a European, or Asian, parent or grandparent to separate themselves.

The continuing practice of Africans of unknown ancestry separating themselves from Americans of the same unknown ancestry.

For starters.

I am not sure that 'documentation' is needed.

I have to run an errand.


PEACE

Jim Chester
JWC, Internalized Racism (IR) is the ways in which the racism in the "dominant" society manifest itself in the thoughts, attitudes and behaviors of those, African-Americans in this case, on the receiving end that substantive racism.

Colorism would be but one example. Please address the question instead of trying to twist it. If you don't understand it then ask for an understanding.

Here is one attempt to define the term:
quote:
INTERNALIZED RACISM
Internalized racism occurs when people targeted by racism are, against their will, coerced and pressured to agree with the distortions of racism. Each of us targeted by racism fights, from childhood on, as long and as hard as we dare, to maintain a sense of ourselves as good, smart, strong, important, and powerful. However, in our societies, racist attitudes are so harsh, so pervasive, and so damaging that each of us is forced at times to turn racism in upon ourselves and seemingly agree with some of the conditioning, internalizing the messages of racism. We come to mistreat ourselves and other members of our group in the same ways that we have been mistreated as the targets of racism.

Examples of internalized racism appear everywhere, for example:

  • Racism has made us think of ourselves or each other as stupid, lazy, unimportant, or inferior.

  • Racism has made us criticize or verbally attack each other, using the racist messages of our societies, or allow others in our group to do so.

  • Racism has made us physically attack or kill each other, playing out our rage about racism at one another.... [etc.]

    ...We are not to blame for any of these attitudes or behaviors, but we can increasingly understand them and take steps to end them and to heal the damage done to us by racism.

    http://www.rc.org/uer/InternalizedRacism.html
  • Internalized Racism relates to Post-Trauma Slave Syndrome. Or rather PTSS is a form of IR.
    Your (working) definition helps.

    Internalized Racism relates to Post-Trauma Slave Syndrome. Or rather PTSS is a form of IR.

    I was about to say the same thing. Dr. DeGruy-Leary's work addresses this, and identifies it as a major, if not the major, reason for our generational failure to lift ourselves using our own resources.

    I would still offer both of the examples I originally advanced as being indicative of internalization of racism.

    I think 'colorization' as you have termed it is a direct product of he racism practiced against us for generations. 'Color became the easy indicator of those to be targeted.

    The same is true of the 'one-drop' method. Witness the recent spate of posters focused on how much non-African blood is significant.

    I agree with your list.

    I would add 'black' to that list when it is used to define who we are rather than simply what we are.

    Item: Racism made us think 'black' was the parity value with 'white' when 'white' itself is a fiction (construction).

    Even when we resist, we fall victim to system, the racism, that binds us.


    PEACE

    Jim Chester
    quote:
    Then what do you call the Civil Rights Movement, CF?


    Listen Carefully EBONY:

    THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT was an attempt to CHANGE THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES to have WHITE FOLKS TO STOP BEATING THE HELL OUT OF US AS A PEOPLE. THIS WAS A NECESSARY STRUGGLE. It gave constitutional rights to BLACK FOLKs.

    Again - in my view the target of the Civil Rights Movement was a CHANGE IN WHITE FOLKS.

    The SECOND FRONT in the TRANSFORMATION PROCESS of the African-American out of slavery and toward greater gains is to NOW CHANGE BLACK FOLKS FROM WITHIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    We need stronger CULTURAL INSTITUTIONS that will direct the actions of a larger portion of our people toward more productive ends by changing our MEANS and daily habits.

    THIS IS NOT GOING TO COME FROM A MOVEMENT INITIATED BY WHITE FOLKS.

    The flaw in some of you all's theories (Kevin, et al) is that YOU DESIRE TO CHALLENGE WHITE POWER but then you depend on WHITE POWER to yield you some opportunity for academic admissions or financial resources DESPITE THESE WHITE FOLKS KNOWING THAT YOU ARE TARGETING THEIR POWER BASE. Is this a RATIONAL strategy in your view?

    We need a grass roots change within our community where A CERTAIN FUNCTIONAL CULTURE is produced to channel our young people toward a certain destiny.

    We can start by going after the SAMBOS who are grabbing so much of the attention span of our young people when they could be reenforcing their academic standing or other productive actions.
    CON-Feed, aka RHETORIC MAN... You are a Grade A DUMBASS!!!
    quote:
  • THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT was an attempt to CHANGE THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES to have WHITE FOLKS TO STOP BEATING THE HELL OUT OF US AS A PEOPLE. THIS WAS A NECESSARY STRUGGLE. It gave constitutional rights to BLACK FOLKs.

    ----------------------------------------------

  • The flaw in some of you all's theories (Kevin, et al) is that YOU DESIRE TO CHALLENGE WHITE POWER... DESPITE THESE WHITE FOLKS KNOWING THAT YOU ARE TARGETING THEIR POWER BASE. Is this a RATIONAL strategy in your view?
  • What makes you a world reknown DUMBASS is how you so easily CONTRADICT yourself in the same damn posting.

    Ummm... During the CRM, White people then, too, knew their POWER BASE was being targeted. So reconcile that dumbshit.

    In one case, you said that strategy was necessary. In the other, you call it "irrational" even though the White Folks Knew/Know their Power Base is threatened in both cases.

    So, threatening or challenging the White Power Base and Whites attempt to maintain it, even if on as a reflex to the Black Challenge, is not your issue or the determinant of what you call "irrational." There is something else to it. Truth be told, it all has to do with this silly ass EITHER OR mentality you have:

    quote:
    The SECOND FRONT in the TRANSFORMATION PROCESS of the African-American out of slavery and toward greater gains is to NOW CHANGE BLACK FROM WITHIN!!!
    With that said, you are not only a DUMBASS. You are a ignorant DUMBASS at that. Redundant, but that's what you are.

    Hmmm.... You're saying that to EBONY ROSE... That's what make you a double DUMBASS.

    To the point though, nothing but your ideology - i.e. your opinion, your deferring and apologetic opinion - causes you to place these Changes In Folks, first in White and now in Blacks, in some steps as if it is self-evident that things take those steps in that order and, more importantly, that there is such an order and a mutually exclusive process.

    Dude, kill the rhetoric. You can emphasize and concentrates on what moves you but stop fuckin' choking yourself with these knotted up arguments where you pretzelize yourself with all types of CONTRADICTIONS.

    Again, during the CRM, and at all times, White Folks know/knew their Power Base was being threatened/challenged by Africans/African-Americans. So your thinking, your charges that desiring Change In White Folk and Challenging White Power is "irrational" says, too, that the CRM was "irrational."

    What?? Because White Folks were "beating the hell out of us" that made Challenging Their White Power Base something less threatening to them? In any/either event, they stand and knew they stood to lose Power.

    So what do you think is your point, RHETORIC MAN???


    Note: None of that lends support to your Two Front Theory. Your Deference Preference. I know I don't need to link to your FANTASTIC SAMS story again. See, it's that type of bullshit that informs and pervades your illogical and contorted little diatribes and your core philosophy.

    Your underlying assertion-assumption is White Folks Have Changed.... ENOUGH. And the curious thing is you equate the extending of Constitutional Rights as a "Change In White Folks".

    You are truly clueless.
    I have to ask...is the IR conscious or subconscious? As shown by the definition it is against our will, coerced etc but what if it is really a subconscious brainwashing matter?

    I would have to say that the evidence of this IR being exhibited is displayed when mentality of black men who to often are absentee fathers and act like they have been put out to "stud" making babies but not taking on the responsibilities of fathers. It is evident in Black on Black crime,choosing White women to marry, and the use of the word nigga.

    So how can one "cure" oneself of a disease or illness if they do not know or understand that they are sick?
    quote:
    Originally posted by MidLifeMan:

    ...It is evident in Black on Black crime,...


    I would disagree with that one because overwhelmingly crime is intraracial. The only difference is a white person committing a crime against another white person is not called white-on-white crime, nor is a hispanic or latin committing a crime against another called latin-on-latin crime.

    In my view, accepting without question the negative characteristics attributed solely to our own people is a symptom of internalized racism.
    quote:
    I would disagree with that one because overwhelmingly crime is intraracial


    I agree with that. But as is sometimes pointed out you can't always compare US with THEM. We have a differnt experience as citizens in this country. And if as I asked the problem is a subconsious then maybe OUR crimes against each other have a component of "self-hatred" or "lack of worth"
    quote:
    Originally posted by Constructive The flaw in some of you all's theories (Kevin, et al) is that YOU DESIRE TO CHALLENGE WHITE POWER but then you depend on WHITE POWER to yield you some opportunity for academic admissions or financial resources DESPITE THESE WHITE FOLKS KNOWING THAT YOU ARE TARGETING THEIR POWER BASE. Is this a RATIONAL strategy in your view?


    here are the immortal words of frederick douglas:

    Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will.

    these words were applicable in the past, are applicable today and will be applicable in the future. as long as there is poverty & social injustice, there will be struggle.
    quote:
    Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
    quote:
    I would disagree with that one because overwhelmingly crime is intraracial


    I agree with that. But as is sometimes pointed out you can't always compare US with THEM. We have a differnt experience as citizens in this country. And if as I asked the problem is a subconsious then maybe OUR crimes against each other have a component of "self-hatred" or "lack of worth"


    Excellent 'Midlife Man' !!!!!!!!
    quote:
    THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT was an attempt to CHANGE THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES to have WHITE FOLKS TO STOP BEATING THE HELL OUT OF US AS A PEOPLE. THIS WAS A NECESSARY STRUGGLE. It gave constitutional rights to BLACK FOLKs.


    Nmaginate. Between your verbal attacks I can't understand your point.

    ARE YOU REJECTING MY CLAIM ABOVE?

    Please tell me then - What was the purpose of the Civil Rights Movement?
    quote:
    Nmaginate. Between your verbal attacks I can't understand your point.

    ARE YOU REJECTING MY CLAIM ABOVE?
    YOU CAN READ!!!

    And you've hardly ever even so much as feigned understanding before (when your concluding points are contradicted) whether there were personal/verbal "attacks" or not.

    quote:
    During the CRM, White people then, too, knew their POWER BASE was being targeted.
    You called that an "irrational" strategy: Attacking White People's Power Base (when they have knowledge that it's being challenged/attacked/threatened).

    YOU CAN READ!!!

    I sure as hell didn't mistake your premise with your conclusion. It is your conclusions that are CONTRADICTORY. You know. I know it. I was obviously very clear in showing it.

    quote:
    In one case, you said that strategy was necessary. In the other, you call it "irrational" even though the White Folks Knew/Know their Power Base is threatened in both cases.

    So, threatening or challenging the White Power Base and Whites attempt to maintain it, even if on as a reflex to the Black Challenge, is not your issue or the determinant of what you call "irrational." There is something else to it.
    CON-Feed... Don't make me have to go FANTASTIC on you, allegorically so. You have not always said/maintained, in so many words (because you try your hand with chameleon-like deceipt so much), that "challenging" or directing attention towards White what White folks must do/change as "irrational." Matter of fact, you have said that it, too, is more or less necessary. NEEDED.

    But since you only think so far and tend to stay in the Decepti-CON moment, you always say something that comes back to bite you. Again, I have not confused your premise with your conclusion. It is your conclusions that are CONTRADICTORY. So, why, are you asking me about a singular, disconnected premise of yours?

    ----->> I GOT YOUR WOLF TICKETS!!!
    And didn't I just tell you about that "ARE YOU SAYING...?" type of BULLSHIT??? sck

    quote:

    CON-Feed? Why do you always use "WHITE BOY" Tactics??

    The LEADING Tactic (in place of a logical response):
  • Attempts to direct a respondant to a particular answer or implies a "correct" response. In essence, asking a leading question attempts to put words in the mouth of the witness.

    The LOADED Tactic (in place of a logical response):
  • Is a logical fallacy. It is committed when someone asks a question that presupposes something that has not been proven or accepted [...]; a dubious proposition.

    This fallacy is often used rhetorically so that the question limits direct replies to something that serves the questioner's agenda.... [A] fact is presupposed by the question, and if it has not been agreed upon by the speakers before, the question is improper...

  • ARE YOU REJECTING MY CLAIM ABOVE? = IMPROPER QUESTION.
    Whether I do or don't is beside the point. The point is you called the SAME STRATEGY "necessary" then and "irrational" now. You're having another one of your NAACP Contradiction Moments.

    You keep making claims that you self-contradict. There it was you claiming the NAACP changed (via being HIJACKED) when, ironically, as you are saying here, they have maintained the same strategy. The very strategy you applauded the "NAACP of Old."

    Here, you talk about that strategy but you say that it needs to change. In one case, you decry CHANGE (in approach/strategy, etc. - Old NAACP vs. current). In the other, you're saying a CHANGE (in strategy, if only in emphasis) is necessary. Are you a closet stereotypical woman? What? You can't make up your mind or something?

    You are CONFUSED and CONCUSSED.

    ---->>> I GOT YOUR WOLF TICKETS!!
  • Please define what a "White Boy Tactic" is?

    A few weeks ago I received an NAACP "Survey" from Julian Bond.

    He asked a series of leading questions and supplied a "multiple choice" answer that was laughable.

    At the end of course they asked for a DONATION.

    Do you think that the NAACP and Julian Bond is using this "White Boy Tactic" to lead the person answering to a specific end?

    (I refuse to donate to the NAACP by the way. I contribute to the Urban League and UNCF each year.)
    quote:
    Please define what a "White Boy Tactic" is?
    It's already defined. The heavily reliance and use of LOADED/LEADING questions in place of logical counterarguments or responses.

    And Julian Bond won't save you.

    quote:
    In one case, you said that strategy was necessary. In the other, you call it "irrational" even though the White Folks Knew/Know their Power Base is threatened in both cases.
    Get your punk ass on the topic. Quit committing Logical Fallacies. Julian Bond is IRRELEVANT to this discussion. Julian Bond didn't say the CONTRADICTORY things you said here. That's what I'm talking about. Why aren't you??

    ----->>> I GOT YOUR WOLF TICKETS!!!

    ...And you keep paying for my lunch. I'm the boxer and you're the PUNCH-ee. Damn, I need a new PUNCHING BAG. You make this shit too damn easy.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
    The SECOND FRONT in the TRANSFORMATION PROCESS of the African-American out of slavery and toward greater gains is to NOW CHANGE BLACK FOLKS FROM WITHIN!


    Again, I completely agree with you there.

    However, I disagree in that, I see nothing wrong with targeting White folks power base! It's ill-gotten, for one ... it's discriminatory, for two ... and they do need to change, and we do deserve to at least share in all that power they're holding. Nothing that they have did they get without us.

    We need to do what we need to do .. but they've got things to do, too. Things that concern us and yes, are for our benefit. No doubt they won't initiate any such a movement towards doing those things. That's why that "power base" needs to be targeted and made to do the right thing. Because "expecting" that from them is a waste of precious time and sensability.

    The two are not mutually exclusive of each other. They are bound by their commonality of eventual goal.

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