quote:
Originally posted by little minx:
YEAH RIGHT!!! black men never put black women down. you went as far as to use the word NEVER??? after i finished laughing at that one, i decided to write back and let you know that this is a complete distortion.
**I guess you missed my point. I'm talking about general statements among strangers, not people that know each other and know each other well....like the women in that Hair Salon, featured in that article. Are those Black women close friends that met the dude discussed and agreed that that man that left the lady because she bought her own home, or is that just a general statement to down Black men, hmm??***

you make it out to seem as if black men have halos and black women are evil she things trying to bring them down.***I never said that***
i believe you are the one with the one sided view,. . .brother. black men put black women down on the regular.**Where do Black men gather and speak generally negative things in general about Black women, like Black Women gather at a hair and nail salon?? where???***

how many songs feature the word bitch and ho? but black women don't complain about the way black artists portray them. ***I don't support "ghetto rap crap" music, never have, never will defend it, but however I'll add this "gem" to this discussion, Rap Group Public Enemy, a progressive positive rap group had their last album rejected by their record company, because it was deemed "too preachy, and positive" In essence, their rap career is over because they refuse to rap about "hoes and bytches". Are you up in arms about this?>? Have you also written letter to the Record company telling them how much we all need positive artists? Probably not. This is a capitalistic economy, based off of selling goods that hte people want. Are you tell me that it's the recording artist job to educate people not to want crap like Ja-Rule's "Down azz bytch"?? How could he, it's the number one song right now?? Maybe he can diss his own song in the next EBONY magazine or begging people to stop buying it. ***

black women seem to jam to the same tunes, as if we have completely given up on the issue. **That's their own mental problem,ie ignorant people in general, would Blacks jam to pro-slavery songs?? or songs that degrade black down to an ignorant field slave?? maybe if the beat was banging, they might.

how often are women portrayed as nothing but sexual objects in music video?**How are Black women in these videos?? should they have enuff sense NOT to do this type of junk crap and dance like strippers on top of that?? If these Black women look at this as a "JOB" then it's their own fault, be mental, spiritual, whatever...PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!!!***

as i said in an earlier post, GOD forbid black women put out a song like "no scrubs" that tells black women not to accept just anything. the brothers had to have a come back song! remember no pidgeons?
***Nice try, No pigeons was a comedy was "rebuttal", the Sporty Thieves. It was made to be humorous, examine their lyrics...

"In the front of the club I see this girl like, "Yo love"
Thought she said thug but she called me a scrub
Scrub? What? She musta talk me a joke
Broke Pigeonhead freak, you lucky I spoke
This ain't my Benz there, it's my man's, yeah
But this ain't my car like that ain't your hair
(Uh-Oh) Pigeon, take them fake jewels off
(Uh-oh) Pigeon, take your friend's shoes off"
I thought these lyrics were comical, not a point of reference for a serious discussion.. Oh well, I digress.***

and god forbid a film that is made to uplift black women or document their causes is released. black men got mad at waiting to exhale, and at the color purple.
***Waiting to Exhale, a short review,
What's worse than having no Good men in your life?? (the character Lela Rochasan portrayed) I guess having No man at all (the characther played by Whitney Houston). What's worse than having your long time husband live you for another man?? [The character played by Loretta Devine)...I guess having your husband live you for a white woman. THE END - I actually like the color purple, i had to read it in school when the movie cam out and use the movie for my cliff notes...SHHH!!! smile**
but when women are negatively protrayed on the big screen, where's the fuss? it always burns me up to see the double standard alive and well in pictures like "the best man" where it wasn't emphasized that the chestnut character should maybe forgive his fiance's one infidelity because he's cheated on her numberous times over the past. that wasn't important.
have you noticed a double standard in our relationships with black men? ofcourse not
***Now you are thinking for me?? I feel the say way you do, but let's talk about Star Wars, can you believe in the future we will be able to fly in space like they do in that movie and be able to fight over numerous enemy attacks with a small group of well trained soldiers?? Wow, now that's something. "The Best man" is just as fictional as "Star wars", so since this argument is about "REAL LIFE", let's leave the "Fictional" storyline examples out. Thanks smile***

, you're on the beneficial end of it.**Of what, a fictional storyline?? Oh ok, thanks for pointing that out***

how many women are left with a babydaddy instead of a husband or boyfriend? **All baby mommies chose that life, except for the women that were raped and molested. You see, many women still use pregnancy to "trap" a man to marry them, when the man PUNTS the woman is left behind. Babymommas drama is a choice, and a bad one at that!!! smile ***

this is in epidemic proportions. **Stupidity related to babymomma drama is also at the epidemic level, let's focus on that!!!***

You actually think this is all the woman's fault? if i had a penny for every time i heard a black man call a woman a name, or say negative things about women, i'd be rich. **If I had half a penny for every times [IN BALTIMORE CITY], I heard some baby momma bytch and complain about THE BLACK MEN THEY CHOSE TO HAVE SEX WITH and GET PREGNANT BY...I'D BE RICHER THAN you would be with your previous statement...and that's just BALTIMORE CITY!!!!***

maybe all those years in the beauty parlor screwed up your perception of things, cuz black men can be quite insulting.
as you have demonstrated quite nicely. ***Now, i'm screwed up for being around and listening to Black women, please..DO TELL!!!**

please don't tell me that black men are on the whole so good at taking responsibility for things. if it's not the white man's fault, it's the black woman's fault. **I'm not blaming the White man for nothing, leave him out of this, the Black woman makes many decisions in her life, MANY. If those decisions she made "blows up in her face", then it's her fault, not the man she choice, or the drama she brought on herself...PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!! **

you yourself seem to feel that black women are to blame for the topic at hand. *PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY!!!*

do you mean to imply that all that the women here are saying is a lie? *Nope, not all just a poor representation of the facts...PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY to control their own lives!!!*

black men aren't at all to blame?**Not in matters that were initially based off of the woman's decision in the first place. Please read about kemba Smith and her life trials. It's a good story about how people can be caught up in a bad decision and how one's life changes because of this***

if that's your point, then who's not taking responsibility? you sound like white people who say that black folks are to blame for their own problems. **I'm not a white people supporter, i.e. uncle tom or uncle clareance thomas, i'm just a person that like to look at the cause of problems and focus on solutions, for my ten reason lists, I just pointed out things that didn't make sense to me, like the 37 young old woman talking about not wanting to be 80 and alone, fine...but are you just working towards your goal at age 37?? she already halfway there, why did nt she do something sooner?? I feel that that article exposed alot of regret in those ladies interviewed. Yet, the regrett wasn't accepted it was passed on to the black man...in the tone of "they are 'scared' of a Strong Black woman, that's a cool point...if they could prove it. AND THEY CAN'T!!! **

i bet you'd get real upset if a white person said that to you, even if you won't admit that in response to this post. nice try, but no dice buddy
**Not true, White people don't bother me, I don't have any close relationships with whites, other than people I work with, I have respect for them, but if they don't respect me, then I won't respect that individual.



"Only the extremely ignorant or the extremely intelligent can resist change."
-- Socrates (470?-399 BC),
quote:
Originally posted by Nykkii:
in reading the most recent debate, i have some questions and some observations...

i think a lot of what is being debated is mute. it happens on both sides--both men and women are guilty of it.

oldskool--you are straight OLD SCHOOL! lol * smile *

true or false most black men would plan dates like walking in the park or visiting a museum?
--this was a comment from the article, saying white men do this but the avg. black man wouldnt. personally i think it depends on what your interests are--but i do see the writers point.***This depends on the age and interest of the women that is on the date, i.e. a ghetto girl ain't going to respect the facts that I've taken classes that discussed World Cultures, History, and Renoir. She'd be a better date to take to a Rap concert or to a nightclub, places that she is accustom to going. If I were to take this type of woman to a museum, poetry reading, or a park to walk and talk, i'd be labeled a "nice guy" and my first date with her, would be my last!!!***

true or false most black men can (LM)handle being with an independent, professional black woman who often has more formal education than they do?**I actually never had this problem, I have a Master of Science Degree and am seeking a Ph.D. program at a good price, but I'll entertain this. It is usually the woman's problem on this topic. Women are quick to say a man is not "on her level" or not academic. I know of many women from my undergradute school, that refuse to date military men, because they didn't have degrees. One of my former military friends mades 6 figures in the defense private sector, no degree, but that's alot of bank for an "old soldier". On the other hand, educated men frequently date lower educated women. Its very common.

do most black men really think(LM)most black women are gold diggers, or hung up on the superficial things? **First, I haven't polled "most Black men" so I'm only speaking for myself, In my experience, yes. I have gone to several dinner parrties, back when I was single and "working it", looking for a wife, when I noticed a weird fact. Most of the single women I met asked me as a 1st or 2nd question, "where do you work?"...Why not ask, "What is your religion?" or "how often do you go to church?...those seem like more relative questions in understanding an individual, esp. if she is a "church going" woman herself. Some religious groups have a hard time intermarrying, i.e. Muslim and Jews, Jews and Catholics, etc. Isn't my belief structure most important in a early discussion with a potential mate?? Besides that, I already asked, and no one answered, why is the line so short at a Single's night party hosted by a local radio station and yet the lines are down the block and around the corner for a NBA stars party, esp. since Black women are invited to both events, yet CHOOSE to attend the NBA party in droves..and aren't even Sports fans?? Golddigging, perhaps?? I say so.

or is this equal between the sexes? *NOPE, only Black man gold digger I can come up with is Bobby Brown and maybe those young dudes that married Liz Millein, Cher, and Elizabeth Taylor...as you can see few and far between.**

(LM)a lot of brothers can be detrimentally superficial. . .she's gotta be fine, she's gotta have long hair, she's gotta be light skinned, she's gotta look like a supermodel first thing in the morning, she's gotta have perfect feet?

***Do women look at looks at all in picking a date or accepting a date??? Huh?? "Hey gurl, my man's got GOOD hair" That's a TIE then - Next point.

TRUE--SOME black women do say things like this(OS) ["Light skin men make good babies??" ] but not all. **Really, what about good hair, cuz it seemed like only Black men did stuff like this and they were trifling for doing so...are u actually saying Black women can be trifling?? You better not cuz Faith's gonna psychoanalyse you thru her computer and call you a hater. or gay...or something, I don't know smile


OS: --->Are you sure Black women never turn down dudes that are too dark?? Too fat?? Too ugly?? too short?? <---of course black women have done this--but so have black men. **Not a mute point, you said that Black men did stuff like this, you didn't admit Black women did the same thing, not a mute point, more like CHECKMATE!! NEXT!!! [mute point)

true or false most black men think
(LM)it's drama when a woman wants respect. if she calls him on his behavior or won't take his foolishness, she's causing "drama". **if this isn't drama, is it considered a black woman being difficult?

this again is a mute point--both men and women are guilty of this (OS) "Drama is having long, lingering problems, i.e. babymomma/babydaddy drama"

OS: "it's the women's fault for sitting around in a beauty shop complaining without jumping up and doing something about it. "
**what would you suggest? for those of us are doing something...not waiting on someone--we get the "too independent" label, so what should we do?
**Instead of complaining and letting time past and a dating life die, why not meet as many men as possible and try to change...it must first start with the woman's attitide first. She's gotta believe that things are can get better..first***

OS: If these women are unattractive, 500 lbs, have kids, trifling, etc. they shouldn't EXPECT dates, much like men with the same qualities. <--- dont really see the point here. ALL PEOPLE, MEN and WOMEN regardless of their physical appearance deserve companionship. that comment was just plain mean. **Not all people should EXPECT more then they deserve, for example..If a Man weighed 500 lbs should he hold out hope that he's going get a date with Janet Jackson?? Halle Berry??..what if Halle and Janet like thin, muscualr men?? Does the dude DESERVE to have Halle and Janet anyway?? NO!!! Same for women, what's the point of dreaming about which Male supermodel they would wanna date, ie.e Tyson, Shemar, or Boris, when they are either dating someone else or would want a 500 lbs lady. Seems like a waste of energy to me. Maybe having "realistic" dating goals and working on one's self is the best plan. Upgrade themseleves first***

OS: a VERY HIGH PERCENTAGE OF EDUCATED BLACK WOMEN "THUG LOVING".
As for college, at my school, the largest school in my state, the Black women openly pursued the local drug dealers and "flashy car drivers", they had not interest in a futuristic dude hitting the books, but after they [these women] reach that "waiting to exhale/GAME OVER/Bio-clock..tick tick tick" stage of their lives they look back and wonder where they went wrong. Did these women admit that they turned down dudes in school that were not the "in thing", i.e. light skinnted, "good hair", bad boy, etc. at the time?? OF COURSE NOT!!! ALL THE BLAME IS ON BLACK MEN...ALL OF IT!!...Trifling!**
***your example is a microcosm of the entire nation....things are NOT like this all over!! Seek to see things on a national level and not just what's in your backyard. with that said, I do see this trend happening with our YOUNG black women (high school-early 20's)...and hopefully it's just a trend. But you have to know that the proportion of men available to them is drastically more out of proportion than it is for women in their late twenties and early thirty's. As more young black men choose the "thug life" over college and military, more young black men are imprisoned and killed. The lack of (mates/dates) problem is only going to get worse.
**Why are women choosing these men...that that's the problem...the after effects are that after they here two or three of ray-ray's babies and he is locked up again [keeping it real!!] or is killed, she has drama!! I, for one, wouldn't wanna date ray-ray's ex-girl, esp if he's getting out of jail soon. That's just my feelings on the issue, I understand that my college is not the world, but I've talked to other brothers, from other schools and they say the same thing. It must be more than just at my college.


OS: --->Black men don't gather and negatively diss Black women. I'm not talking about "my wife this and that"...I mean very general, "all Black women are..." Never heard a brother say these things, yet I here NUMEROUS SISTERS SAY IT!!! WHY???
**i'd say black men in general are in HIGH DEMAND right now, and they don't have to sit around and discuss ANY woman negatively (black women, white women, green women). As long as your product is in demand, you shouldnt have anything negative to say about your consumer. ***Who says they are a "product in demand". You see by this article from the Atlanta papaer that this "product" has gotten negative reviews. I disagree with you assessment., my point is that Black women don't have a general dislike for Black wmoen in general, like those blk women had of black men while at that salon. Men just don't gather and generally diss Blk women, that's my point. It just seems to generate extra "unlived" negativity amongst Blk women, that keep producing statement like "there are no GOOD Black Men" coming from a 15 year old high schooler.


OS: How come the azadaye Calendar was a best seller?? -----> because EVERYONE loves black men!! you think only BLACK WOMEN bought those calendars--that's crazy!

let's get past the shallow folks and down to the REAL hard working, more than surface, non-materialistic black men and women out there and disucss this topic!
**My pooint was speaking to the idea tha t Black men are superficial to look at looks and women don't. Why would a calendar sell out that featured Black men in them, are Gay Black men buying them up in high numbers?? Are "rother-friendly" White Women buying these calenders by the dozen?? I think the majority of these calendars are brought mby Black women, I notice that at my college many sisters had these calenders hanging in their rooms. Why does Essence magazine figure Black male models, if black women aren't so stuck on looks. I never heard a sister look at a Black male model and say, "I bet that Taye Diggs and Tyson Beckford would know alot about third world politics and the republician party, i'd love to debate these current event topics with them!!! Checkmate!!***

_those who stand for nothing fall for anything_

[This message was edited by Nykkii on August 24, 2002 at 04:41 PM.]


"Only the extremely ignorant or the extremely intelligent can resist change."
-- Socrates (470?-399 BC),
quote:
Originally posted by msprettygirl:
quote:
Originally posted by: OldSkool:**Red flag!!! I never said white women. That's a hot button I don't wanna touch yet. Let's first complete the analysis of the Black women first, because she needs to understand herself before she tries to look for love. I'll return to this lata!!!***


The whole _(intended)_ purpose of this thread was _interracial dating/marriages_-so why not talk about white women???
confused confused

------------------------------
The Lord is on my side;I will not fear:what can man do unto me?
(Psalms 118:6)


To know me is to love me!





I was just debating my distaste to that Atrlanta Article posted here, My point of view on Black men and White women have caused a few riots in the past, but I hold on to that until later. I'm still ripping this article down. I'll be able to discuss that after awhile.

"Only the extremely ignorant or the extremely intelligent can resist change."
-- Socrates (470?-399 BC),
old, you have issues, son. i can tell more and more with every post. you are the one with negative opinions about black women. or as you would so maturely say. . ."CHECKMATE! NEXT!"

if you want to continue to live in a fantasy world then go ahead. i can't make you face reality. black men are just as much to blame for the problems i stated as black women. but you seem to think it's all the black woman's poor decision making. perhaps you're right. perhaps black women need to leave black men alone period. yup. just like white folks like to say that noone made the black guys in jail stand on the corner to sell dope. how it's the black man's fault he is in jail at greater proportions than whites. i guess you agree. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY right? has nothing to do with racism, right? if we apply your theory to black men then black men have real problems with decision making and they need to just pull themselves up by their bootstraps. that's if you think black men should take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for their own lives.

the examples i used about the media are examples of the black male/female relationship. art imitates life, sweety. ask yourself why a bitch or ho song would sell so much better than a gangsta bitch song? why is the black community buying that so that the white production companies feel justified to sell it? has nothing to do with the disrespect that the community has for women? and the pidgeon song was in direct response to no scrubs. but if it's all in fun, do you know how many funny songs women owe men? you may have thought that was a light hearted action. sure you did, alot of people do. but thats not my point. my point is that no pidgeons was done. for whatever reason. i could be wrong about this, but women don't do satirical rebuttal songs for the ones that dis them. and black men were upset about tht song. i heard quite a few bitching about it.


you're the one coming here and creating an antagonistic discussion. nykii was just trying to end the debate between us and you turned that into an argument. her point, is the same as yours. both black men and women have their own issues when it comes to dating. but you have to be obnoxious and say CHECKMATE! NEXT! to her very civil comments.

you are not as well adjusted as you claim to be. i'm not sure you are really married, or working on a PH.D, because you don't conduct yourself like an adult at all. alot of the sisters who put down black men are talking about arrogant self righteous brothers just like you. maybe you want to join us again when you want to discuss rather than coming here just to irritate a few people. or maybe when you're done with high school. whatever comes first.

[This message was edited by little minx on August 25, 2002 at 02:38 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by little minx:
old, you have issues, son. i can tell more and more with every post. you are the one with negative opinions about black women. or as you would so maturely say. . ."CHECKMATE! NEXT!"
**Checkmate is the official end of a chess match, i thought you would have know that, i guess not.***

if you want to continue to live in a fantasy world then go ahead. i can't make you face reality.**What reality?? Passing the blame to the next person solves the problem?? right, i got that...Thanks for the insight!!!**

black men are just as much to blame for the problems i stated as black women. but you seem to think it's all the black woman's poor decision making. perhaps you're right.
**Consider this, if you decide to use illegal drugs as a hobby, Cocaine, herion, mary jane, whatever. You shot up, sniffed up, and smoked up drugs for a long time and currently. Anyway, out of the blue, you dream job is opened and you apply for it. You interview immediately and they love you. They hire you on the spot and you are happy. You start in three weeks. The HR dept calls you and says that everything is good and welcome to the company, however we need you to take a drug test before your first day. You take the test and fail. WHO FAULT IS IT THAT YOU LOST YOUR DREAM JOB?? The company, with their "noisy" drug test?? The society for hating on those that use drugs?? The white man who put these drugs in your community for you to get addicted to?? OR IS IT YOUR FAULT YOU ARE A DRUG ADDICT??? Personal Responsibility. This same story is easily applicable to the Kemba Smith story I spoke about easier. Bright and attractive Black woman undergraduate student at Hampton University DECIDES not to continue dating a YOUNG BLACK MALE Physics/Engineering major so that she can date a local drug dealer. He runs from the law and she decides to drop outta Hampton and be his extra eyes and ears as he continues to do his thing. The police get her and ask for her to give him up, she doesn't and get a long long prison sentence, basicially the sentence he would have gotten, but she was "keeping it real". The nation strangely turned on the judge..?? Why because he told her to have that pursue that "thug life" boyfriend?? Who fault is it that she chose that guy to date?? Who told her to get pregnant by this guy, drop outta college and protect him?? She blamed the "system" for her sentence. I blame her!!!****

perhaps black women need to leave black men alone period. yup.**I agree, then they can be personal responsible for their own errors in judgement**

Like white folks like to say that noone made the black guys in jail stand on the corner to sell dope. how it's the black man's fault he is in jail at greater proportions than whites. i guess you agree. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY right? **Yep, I believe that their are other options, if someone choose to deal drugs and then get arrested everyday, that's their choice and the consequences there to related.

has nothing to do with racism, right? **White man dealing drugs, send them to jail...Black man selling drugs, send them to jail, green man, pink man....send them to jail**

if we apply your theory to black men then black men have real problems with decision making and they need to just pull themselves up by their bootstraps. **Yes, why not***

that's if you think black men should take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for their own lives. **I agree, but not just Black men, all men..and women***

the examples i used about the media are examples of the black male/female relationship. art imitates life, sweety.**FICTION!!! the storyline to "the best man" could have ended with the bride and groom moving to utah and becoming mormons and praying all day...it's a fictional story...like Star wars!!!***

ask yourself why a bitch or ho song would sell so much better than a gangsta bitch song? why is the black community buying that so that the white production companies feel justified to sell it?
**Most of rap music is purchased by whites, they fuel the machinery to the music industry, it's simply more of them than us. That's why Tamrya got voted off of American Idol!!!***

It has nothing to do with the disrespect that the community has for women? *Do women use these terms at each other?? Women rappers use these terms at each other...what about that?? Lil' Kim uses it...alot!!!*

and the pidgeon song was in direct response to no scrubs. but if it's all in fun, do you know how many funny songs women owe men?

**Then write one, make some music and get a good beat and send it to record companies. write a song that rips men and get paid, sounds like a good idea***

you may have thought that was a light hearted action. sure you did, alot of people do. but thats not my point. my point is that no pidgeons was done. for whatever reason. i could be wrong about this, but women don't do satirical rebuttal songs for the ones that dis them. and black men were upset about tht song. i heard quite a few bitching about it.**the no scrubs song is just that a song. That's like the police not liking the Ice-T song "cop killer" yet they had not problem with Eric Clapton's version of the Marley song "I shot the sheriff"...People pick and choose their battles, i don't know why. BTW I like the No Scrubs song, it had a nice beat on it.**


you're the one coming here and creating an antagonistic discussion.
**I'm just laughing at how this whole argument was one sided before I jumped in. Even Faith admit that I had some good points, and she thought I hated women because I was gay. I'm still just tripping off that article that actually got printed in a major periodical. That's strange to me.***


nykii was just trying to end the debate between us and you turned that into an argument.*My debate can stand on it's own, notice that my examples make sures and have ripped all others apart.***
her point, is the same as yours. both black men and women have their own issues when it comes to dating. ***she didn't make that point until after I spoke, her comments following that article were "good post". Why didn't she stated that then?? Did she agree with the article before, but not now?? hmmm???

but you have to be obnoxious and say CHECKMATE! NEXT! to her very civil comments. Her arguments are up for review, like mine are up for review. She is no different than anyone else on here, whether she thinks it's a "peace treaty" post of not!!

you are not as well adjusted as you claim to be. i'm not sure you are really married, or working on a PH.D, because you don't conduct yourself like an adult at all. **huh?? why would I lie on a message board?? what would I gain from that?? Are my college experiences with dating or not dating somehow fictional, like "the best man" movie you reference...and you say I have issues?? hmm??? Now my conduct is under review, I never judged your conduct, why judge mine?? I learned a long time ago that the weakest of all argument are personal ones...esp. when your don't know who you are talking to!!! Maybe this is your way of admitting that you argument is empty and you need to throw stones at me, fine. Go right ahead...I'll stick to debating this topic with whoever I speak with.

alot of the sisters who put down black men are talking about arrogant self righteous brothers just like you.
***i thought they were talking about uneducated, jobless men, dang you tacky women keep changing the focus, dang***

maybe you want to join us again when you want to discuss rather than coming here just to irritate a few people. ***It's impossible to irritate people with the truth. Notice how my point of reference aren't fictional books, songs, or movies?? Do you even have an argument, most of your writing seems to be about me and my life, what does that have to do with the article, I didn't write that piece.

or maybe when you're done with high school. whatever comes first. **I wish I had some competition is this debate, I disagree with an article, and I offend a few trifling women, oh well...thanks for proving your own stupidity, I use to think you were worth speaking to...I'm sorry I offended you with the truth and asked you to prove what you beleieved. Again, I'm sorry.

[This message was edited by little minx on August 25, 2002 at 02:38 PM.]

I'm sorry Faith already gave me a free internet online psychoanalysis. I do find it strange that people can't simply debate a topic for which they feel strongly about without a character assassination. I guess you are just admitting that you argument is weak and baseless. Well whatever, thanks for the tiff. Take care...oh and umm...CHECKMATE!! hehehe

"Only the extremely ignorant or the extremely intelligent can resist change."
-- Socrates (470?-399 BC),

[This message was edited by OldSkool on August 25, 2002 at 03:42 PM.]
whatever, sophomore.

i think it's interesting that people tend to psychoanalyse you. maybe thats because you're clearly mental. the way you choose to express yourself is childish. besides you presume to tell women how to live their lives, so stop whining when people return the favor.

and since you have nothing to say to my points, you must have no come back. guess you have to take personal responsibility for that. . .anyway, figures. talk to your english teacher, she'll help you learn to express yourself maturely.


oh and thanks for proving my point about your immaturity with your "CHECKMATE".

[This message was edited by little minx on August 25, 2002 at 03:23 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by little minx:
whatever, sophomore.

i think it's interesting that people tend to psychoanalyse you.
**the easiest way out of proving yourself when challenged is to make the other person appear to be foolish. That way you don't have to prove yourself, esp. since you can not. I find it strange how Professional Psychologists use office hours, yet these amateurs feel that they can do the same job, if not better one, via emails and message boards. Should they question their own sanity for even attempting this type of analysis?? Point of fact...Just like dumb people don't know there are dumb, crazy people think they are sane. smile Not to be negative, but please join Faith in the Online psychologicial research business, I think y'all can make alot of money, hey Ms. Cleo did!!***

maybe thats because you're clearly mental. the way you choose to express yourself is childish.**Childinh?? yet, you can't seem to win the debate on it's priniciples?? Are you admitting to be less than childish?? hmm??

besides you presume to tell women how to live their lives, so stop whining when people return the favor. **PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY tells them to take control of their lives, I'm sorry if you don't understand this, it's a simple point, you're a simple girl!!!***

and since you have nothing to say to my points, you must have no come back. ***What points again?? Oh about the article posted, your points i'm childish, I'm not married, i'm not educated?? Yeah, I see how the Atlanta Article addressed that topic.

guess you have to take personal responsibility for that. . .anyway, figures. talk to your english teacher, she'll help you learn to express yourself maturely.***Please stop being so idiotic, maybe next time you can hold up your end of an argument.


oh and thanks for proving my point about your immaturity with your "CHECKMATE".


**CHECKMATE!!! smile ***
[This message was edited by little minx on August 25, 2002 at 03:23 PM.]


"Only the extremely ignorant or the extremely intelligent can resist change."
-- Socrates (470?-399 BC),
you have nothing to say about my points. again. you didn't bother to read the whole post so ofcourse you don't know what the points are. i made some very good points that you just can't even address. you're too busy acting self righteous. and yes, you're the childish one. again, thank you for proving my point. you're just stuck on the fact that i know your a fake. you can't seem to address any other part of the post where i made points about how media reflects attitudes in the community. nor have you addressed how similar you sound to a white ignoramus.

get over yourself, son. in fact, stick a fork in yourself, because you're done. you're exposed, and you don't like it. next time you want to antagonize people, try to do a better job of perpetrating an adult.

by the way, i'm not an amateur. i'm a therapist. i have seen your type before. and here is where it's appropriate to say:


***CHECKMATE!!!! cool***

[This message was edited by little minx on August 25, 2002 at 04:42 PM.]
To respond to the original poster. You probably would not have gotten this response five years ago. But, at this time in life, I'm not opposed to interracial dating. I've not dated one of another race, but I am so inclined.

There have been many years since my last date.

Why?

Simply because many guys I would be interested in dating are: already married; involved with another; or do not see me. So, I feel that it is time to consider more options, and if dating someone of another race is required, I will do so. Know that, I make this decision, not as a default, but as one who has attempted to look past skin tone at this stage of the game in all dealings.
btw skool, it occurs to me that you have offered even more evidence of your own idiocy. my stating that you are immature is not an analysis. it's an observation based on your presentation. i don't always get to visit the internet every day so i hadn't noticed until now all the negative comments you made on the thread that i started. you have a problem with women, and you have a problem with feeling like you are being "analysed". i could go to town theoizing about your psychological state. if i wanted to analyse you i'd talk about why this topic bothers YOU so much. maybe you get upset when you hear women say these things and you take it very personally for some reason. i'd remind you that most likely, none of the women here are the women who have dissed you in the course of your life and have made you so sensitive. your posts indicate that you have had some negative experiences with women in your family as well as outside of your family. so try not to take it out on us if we want to speak our minds. it's not our fault if men tend to bottle their feelings while women express theirs. or if the girls dumped you for a thug. or told you they like thugs instead of real men. but, i'm not analysing you, unless you'd like to make an appointment, so i'll leave that toYOUR therapist. she's got her hands full.


with that said, i'm done paying any attention to you or your comments. you are officially on ignore. i'm afraid i've let you distract me from sticking to the original topic which in case you were confused. . .is not you.

[This message was edited by little minx on August 26, 2002 at 12:47 AM.

[This message was edited by little minx on August 26, 2002 at 01:17 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by little minx:
you have nothing to say about my points. again. you didn't bother to read the whole post so ofcourse you don't know what the points are. i made some very good points that you just can't even address. you're too busy acting self righteous. and yes, you're the childish one. again, thank you for proving my point. you're just stuck on the fact that i know your a fake. you can't seem to address any other part of the post where i made points about how media reflects attitudes in the community. nor have you addressed how similar you sound to a white ignoramus.

get over yourself, son. in fact, stick a fork in yourself, because you're done. you're exposed, and you don't like it. next time you want to antagonize people, try to do a better job of perpetrating an adult.

by the way, i'm not an amateur. i'm a therapist. i have seen your type before. and here is where it's appropriate to say:


***CHECKMATE!!!! cool***

[This message was edited by little minx on August 25, 2002 at 04:42 PM.]


***I guess you never read my posts, I'm talking about the article that got posted on here. That's all. You are the one with the worthless references to Fictional movies, Books, and Party songs. I suggest you analyze your posts you've written...It does seem to be about the topic anymore either. The majority of your last post seem to be about me. Do I interracially date?? NO. How could your posts be about me?? Just because I disagree with you about an article?? That's lame. Then you continue to attack me, why not just prove your points?? Can you prove your points?? I don't think so. Your examples of Ghetto rap music were fine, except that the women in those videos did what the song was talking about. If these songs were objectionable or offensive to Blk women, why are they in the video?? Are they sellouts?? I really wish you had a better argument and some class, it really could have be a good debate. Take care and Get well soon

"Only the extremely ignorant or the extremely intelligent can resist change."
-- Socrates (470?-399 BC),
quote:
Originally posted by little minx:
btw skool, it occurs to me that you have offered even more evidence of your own idiocy. my stating that you are immature is not an analysis. it's an observation based on your presentation. i don't always get to visit the internet every day so i hadn't noticed until now all the negative comments you made on the thread that i started. you have a problem with women, and you have a problem with feeling like you are being "analysed". i could go to town theoizing about your psychological state. if i wanted to analyse you i'd talk about why this topic bothers YOU so much. maybe you get upset when you hear women say these things and you take it very personally for some reason. i'd remind you that most likely, none of the women here are the women who have dissed you in the course of your life and have made you so sensitive. your posts indicate that you have had some negative experiences with women in your family as well as outside of your family. so try not to take it out on us if we want to speak our minds. it's not our fault if men tend to bottle their feelings while women express theirs. or if the girls dumped you for a thug. or told you they like thugs instead of real men. but, i'm not analysing you, unless you'd like to make an appointment, so i'll leave that toYOUR therapist. she's got her hands full.


with that said, i'm done paying any attention to you or your comments. you are officially on ignore. i'm afraid i've let you distract me from sticking to the original topic which in case you were confused. . .is not you.

[This message was edited by little minx on August 26, 2002 at 12:47 AM.

[This message was edited by little minx on August 26, 2002 at 01:17 AM.]


Let this be the last word, BYE!!

"Only the extremely ignorant or the extremely intelligent can resist change."
-- Socrates (470?-399 BC),
Ricardomath - I wonder if you would care to share anything of your experiences with us regarding being in an interracial marriage? I'll just throw out a slew of questions; feel free to tackle whichever ones you like - or none at all. I certainly don't mean to pry or be intrusive. You seem to be rather open about your relationship and I thought you could teach us quite a bit! Smile

What has been your experience with regard to the cultural differences between you and your wife? Do they manifest themselves in any kind of a day-to-day way? Have each of you adopted various elements of the others' culture? How has time impacted this phenomenon?

What has been your experience with how others receive you and your wife? Is there a difference between how whites treat you versus blacks? What has been your experience with the Latino community?

Have you experienced any overt discrimination because of your marriage? Is Iowa either a positive or a negative in terms of this issue? Is there a difference between how your colleagues on campus and the "townies" relate to you both?

Have you acquired any different a perspective on racism and discrimination toward "minorities" since your relationship? Have your perspectives regarding race changed at all because of this? Lastly, has your marriage changed your relationship at all with other whites - friends, colleagues etc.?

Looking forward to your replies. Smile



Now is the time to make real the promises of Democracy

[This message was edited by MBM on June 28, 2003 at 09:14 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:

What has been your experience with regard to the cultural differences between you and your wife? Do they manifest themselves in any kind of a day-to-day way?


Well, I have a somewhat amusing (well, amusing looking back on it, anyway! Big Grin ) story reguarding cultural differences. I'll have to think about the other questions, but, as it happens, I happen to have this story ready to cut and paste.


When I met my wife, she was still dating her previous boyfriend, although a breakup was immenent. He was about to graduate with a MBA. They weren't really serious, and they had already decided before I met her that they were going to break up after he graduates and moves to Chicago, where he had some high paying position as a buisiness executive waiting for him. Much better than anything that he could find here in Iowa. Although we knew that we would be dating after he left (and he knew it, too), she had agreed that they would not break up untill after he actually graduated and left Iowa. He actually wanted her to move to Chicago with him, but she declined. Razz

During that semester, although she and I were not yet "oficially" dating, we started getting into arguements alot. It started out sporatically, but soon became an almost daily thing. We would be talking, and then she would tell me (seemingly out of the blue) that I should start dating other women. I couldn't understand why she would want me to do that, since supposedly we were about to start dating each other in a few weeks, once the semester ended. Was she trying to get rid of me? The fights would get heated, and the things that she said didn't make any sense to me. She would even claim that it was MY idea, etc... Eek

It looked like things were not going to work out, when I realized something rather curious about the timing of our fighting. I noticed that things seemed to blow up after I would comment on how I "can't wait" until her boyfriend graduates. I tested my hypothesis, saying it again, and sure enough, right on cue, she started talking about about how I should start seeing other women. Of course, I tried to explain to her that I thought that the phrase "can't wait" that I was using was an idiom in english (something that I didn't realize until then), and that she was translating it to something like "I am unable or unwilling to wait" for the end of the semester. However much I tried to tell her that that is not what the phrase "can't wait" actually meant, she refused to believe me. In any case, I stopped saying it, and we got along much better.

Eventually, I found the idiom "can't wait" in a book of idioms and showed it to her, so now she believes me, but by that time we had been married for almost a year. Big Grin

Here is the entry from the book:
quote:
From "2001 Spanish and English Idioms, Second Edition/2001 Modismos Españolas y Inglesas, Segunda Edición" by Savaiano and Winget:

wait - espera

not to be able to wait - arder en deseo de.

I have not seen Mary in five years, and I can't wait until she arrives!"

¡Hace cinco años que no he visto a María, y ardo en deseos de que llegue!




<p align=center>"La vida te da sorpresas...
Sorpresas te da la vida...",
¡Ay, Dios!

Rubén Blades---Pedro Navaja</p>
<P align=center><A href="http://www.plowsharesactions.org/">Plowshares Actions</A> <br><A href="http://www.nonviolence.org/nukeresister/">The Nuclear Resister</A><br><A href="http://www.soaw.org/">School of the Americas Watch</A> </P>
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:

What has been your experience with regard to the cultural differences between you and your wife? Do they manifest themselves in any kind of a day-to-day way? Have each of you adopted various elements of the others' culture? How has time impacted this phenomenon?



I've certainly adopted the food and music. My wife is an excelent cook. I really wish that we had the money for her to open a Colombian Resturaunt. Most of the Latinos in town that we know make fun of our musical tastes, though, because we both tend to like the old stuff, Celia Cruz, Ibrahim Ferrer, Willie Colón, Rubén Blades, Hector Lavoe, etc. And the old Cumbias. Of course, we are a bit older than most of them. (I am 46, and my wife's official age is 50, although she is probobly a little younger in reality.) Alot of people say that the music that we listen to is their parents' or grandparents' music. Well, it's new to me, and I like it! Big Grin

She's trained me to shake hands with everybody when we arive and leave anywhere, so as not to appear mal educado. She's a bit of a clean freak, and I know that all of my math books and papers drive her crazy. She can't understand how Americans can live with such disorder. She even once vowed to a friend that she would never marry an American, but lucky for me, she backtracked on that one! Big Grin

I've never been able to interest her in pizza, which is quite unfortunate, since I love going out for pizza. Oh, well...

Oh, yeah...I know never to say "shhhhhh..." to her (or to any latino). This is very offensive! Her angry response is likely to be, "¡No hay perros aqui!" ("There are no dogs here!") I learned about that one the hard way.

In addition, I do dress better now. She can't understand why Americans dress the way that we do, when most of us can afford better looking clothes. When she first arrived here in this country, she was afraid to go outside for quite some time, because she thought that we were all crazy, largely based on how we dress.

"La vida te da sorpresas...
Sorpresas te da la vida...",
¡Ay, Dios!

Rubén Blades---Pedro Navaja


Plowshares Actions
The Nuclear Resister
School of the Americas Watch


Ricardo--its interesting to me to read how you use the term "American" in your describing you and your wife's relationship and melding of cultures.

I consider myself an American, but I'm not sure what type of American you're describing.

Your wife sounds very nice...now im hungry!

"Your playing small doesn't serve the world. There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is with in us. It's not just in some of us it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated form our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.

Nelson Mandela
Inaugural Speech, 1994
quote:
Originally posted by Nykkii:
Ricardo--its interesting to me to read how you use the term "American" in your describing you and your wife's relationship and melding of cultures.

I consider myself an American, but I'm not sure what type of American you're describing.

Your wife sounds very nice...now im hungry!



Well, as a practical matter, I tend to use "American" to mean a US Citizen in ordinary conversation, since that's generally how everybody else will take it, anyway. Unless, of course, I am intentionally making a point to somebody who doesn't seem to understand that Latin America is part of the Americas. Then I will emphasize that my wife is an "American", also.

It seems odd that there is no term in English that means "US Citizen". Confused "American" is used, but is not really correct. In Spanish, it is "estadounidense", but I've never heard it in Colombia, only "americano" or "gringo".

Perhaps, "Gringos" would have been better. Big Grin

"La vida te da sorpresas...
Sorpresas te da la vida...",
¡Ay, Dios!

Rubén Blades---Pedro Navaja


Plowshares Actions
The Nuclear Resister
School of the Americas Watch


quote:
Originally posted by MBM:

What has been your experience with how others receive you and your wife? Is there a difference between how whites treat you versus blacks? What has been your experience with the Latino community?



As far as just walking down the street together, we get ocaisionally looks, but not much. People are more likely to smile than anything else. Sometimes we will get nasty looks, but not often. More likely in Des Moines than here in Ames. When it does happen, it is usually Black women (of any age). Followed by elderly White women. I can only remember getting a nasty look once by a man, in this case an elderly White man. My wife just finds it funny. She considers it "an American thing".

In Colombia, nobody would think twice about an interracial marriage. People do look at us in Colombia, but that's only because I am the only gringo around. Although she can easily pass for American here in the US, at least until she opens her mouth, I am obviously not Colombiano. You, on the other hand, could easily walk down the street in Palmira (assuming that the avatar is you), without being pegged as a gringo, at least so long as you don't open your mouth.

One funny episode was one (American) Black woman, a friend of hers from work, who seemed to vehemently object to her marrying a white guy. I was quite shocked when, a couple of years later, she confided to my wife that there was this white guy at work that she wanted to go out with! Confused Aparently a case of "Methinks she doth protest too much". Big Grin I don't know if she ever followed up on it, but she has since moved to Kansas, where she is from.

In any case, for the most part, nobody that we know, black or white, cares or comments, although we do, I think, get asked how we met more often than most couples, I believe.

"La vida te da sorpresas...
Sorpresas te da la vida...",
¡Ay, Dios!

Rubén Blades---Pedro Navaja


Plowshares Actions
The Nuclear Resister
School of the Americas Watch

quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:

You, on the other hand, could easily walk down the street in Palmira (assuming that the avatar is you), without being pegged as a gringo, at least so long as you don't open your mouth.



Hey. ¡Yo hablo español también! Smile



Now is the time to make real the promises of Democracy.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:

You, on the other hand, could easily walk down the street in Palmira (assuming that the avatar is you), without being pegged as a gringo, at least so long as you don't open your mouth.



Hey - yo hablo espanol tambien! Smile



¡Bueno!

¿Pero, puedes decirlo sin acento gringo?

¿Eres latino?

"La vida te da sorpresas...
Sorpresas te da la vida...",
¡Ay, Dios!

Rubén Blades---Pedro Navaja


Plowshares Actions
The Nuclear Resister
School of the Americas Watch

Yo soy norteamericano. That is about as bilingual I can get with my computer keyboard. I don't know how to get the accents and the inverted question mark on the post.

I wanted to ask you, do you think that youth and beauty determines how more or less the dirty looks become when one is in an interracial relationship?

For example, you said you and your wife are in the late 40's. Do you think that if you and your wife both were in the late 20's or early 30's and looked similar to Antonio Banderas and Halle Berry respectively, those dirty looks would become more harsh because not only the people giving you dirty stares are jealous you two are together, but actually wish they were the ones in that relationship?
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
Yo soy norteamericano. That is about as bilingual I can get with my computer keyboard. I don't know how to get the accents and the inverted question mark on the post.

I wanted to ask you, do you think that youth and beauty determines how more or less the dirty looks become when one is in an interracial relationship?

For example, you said you and your wife are in the late 40's. Do you think that if you and your wife both were in the late 20's or early 30's and looked similar to Antonio Banderas and Halle Berry respectively, those dirty looks would become more harsh because not only the people giving you dirty stares are jealous you two are together, but actually wish they were the ones in that relationship?


i think that's a good point. I remember many blk women really thought taye diggs was sexy in the movie 'Stella'...then when he emerged at the NAACP awards with his long time white girlfriend, now wife, the hatred began. He, all of the sudden, 'looks like a turtle', 'ewww, yuck - sell out', or 'why does he hate Black women??' ...there was even a email 'boycott' of his last two movies...that's insane...Am I suppose to not see 'millineium' or ''malibu's most wanted'??..why the change about Taye?? Do we boycott Sidney Pointier movies and career because he married white?? What about Jamming on some Quincy Jones music?? Are they less black because they have mixed kids?? Makes no sense. I think that the change is directly linked to Black women insecurity and their warped mindset in which they believe that 'all black men should date/ marry only black women' or that 'well, if he didn't want to date me, i guess it's ok'...as if one need approval to date and marry someone they love....that's just loony. God Bless You.

In order to improve the mind, we ought less to learn, than to contemplate.
-Rene Descartes
Hi,
Great topic, this is one I can "get my teeth into". I'm a white mother of a 7 year old bi-racial son. His father and I never married as "he wasn't ready for marriage" for several years after our son was born and by the time he was ready I was through with it all.

I never set out to date a black man. I was raised in the south and primarily have a very racist family. We met, fell in love, eventually I told my family about him (they weren't happy, this was also a point of contention between us in the beginning), I got pregnant and had our son, we were together for 9 years but I eventually realized we weren't really meant to be together. I tried at first to blame it on cultural differences but realized that men of all races have the same problems.

I have custody of our son and I'm his primary caregiver. His father is very involved in his life. One thing I've noticed as I've talked to people is that most bi-racial children are raised to believe they are black. I have always felt from the beginning that he would have to reconcile the differences in his heritage at some point and we've raised him to call himself bi-racial, both black and white. My hope is that this beautiful, intelligent, passionate child will be instrumental in changing some of both races opinions of the other race. He is perfectly at home with people of all races. He sees his father's family more because we live closer to them but I make sure that he also has an opportunity to spend time with my family a couple of times a year. His cousins on both sides adore him and he adores them. "A child shall lead them".

His father and I are both dating again and discuss our experiences with it. Currently he's dating a black woman although he was involved briefly with a white woman right before and after our breakup. I don't have a preference for men of any race but decide who to date based on whether I'm attracted to them, whether they seem like "decent men", and they must absolutely be intelligent. I just ditched a GORGEOUS Puerto Rican because he didn't have the necessary brain power. Wink

I welcome any feedback and advice, my primary goal in life is to raise my son to be a strong, intelligent, sensitive, and successful man.

[This message was edited by Mariana on July 05, 2003 at 11:51 AM.]


[This message was edited by Mariana on July 05, 2003 at 11:54 AM.]
Hi everyone, I'm new here... Just joined to see the millions of points of view from around the world...

Anyways, I am a product of interacial marriage... So it's not much of a surprise that I'm all for it... My mom is Filipino, and my dad is white, they met near Clark Air Base in the Philippines... It's quite interesting being an AmerAsian mix, because I get mistaken for being Latino, or an Arab... Nothing more fun then pretending to not know English around new people... Cool

%50 Filipino - %50 White
All American...
The White Woman:
She sits high up near the clouds on a lily-white pedestal.

Her wavy golden curls fall softly across her shoulders down, down off the pedestal.

She bats her lashes at the mirror to catch the sudden beauty of her bright blue eyes.

The "Ideal perfection" of womanhood complete with gentleness and held morally superior.

Loving, compassionate, adoring, easy to get along with - are used to describe the white woman who sits upon the pedestal throne .

It's amazing chance of circumstance that some AA man has desires for a white woman and some white women having desires for an AA man. You see, they are using each other to validate each other's self worth. Yes, this started during the women's suffrage movement. Remember the time when the white woman wanted down from here pedestal and she entertained the idea of obtaining the same citizenry as the white man by campaigning for the right to vote. Especially since the AA man was no longer in bondage and was required by unspoken law to be protectors of white women. Well, the response of white women was to assert themselves as protector of the "uncivilized" races, which includes AA men. As such, she became the AA man's protector. Hmm, is there any wonder an AA man feels less drama with his white "race" protector?

Ah love, sweet love. Yes, I do believe in love. And, if love is the reason for inter-racial marriage may God bless the union. Because any other reason just wouldn't do.
Hi Mariana! Welcome to the site! I have stated many times before that I am a product of a healthy biracial marriage, having a white mother and black father.(That's why I was curious about the question, what other African Americans opionions would be and posted it up.) I think what you are doing with your child is similar to my situation. I was raised by both parents, but live around my father's family here in Louisiana and my mom's family live in Maine, so naturally I only can visit them occasionally. For the most part I was brought up to know that I was biracial and I was never really forced to choose sides or to choose to be black-except on one occasion I can remember in Junior high when I checked other on some standardiZed test I was taking and the teacher saw it and made me put black, despite me telling her I was biracial-(she was a older white woman.) I think that it is good that you are exposing your child to both sides of his heritage, despite the fact that you and his father are not togeather any more. I think biracial children get the wrong message when they are completely exposed to one side of their heritage and not exposed to the other side, in a sense, it teaches them to repress that other side to the point where they deny that part of themselves.

------------------------------
The Lord is on my side;I will not fear:what can man do unto me?
(Psalms 118:6)


If God brings you to it - He will bring you through it.

a most illustrious bunch of people in this forum: UN secretary general, Master of the Univers, or at least Governors or State Representatives here. It makes me wonder why you choose names like this? Do I wonder only because I am not from the US and I don't have any contact with the Africanamerican society?
No, no, no. It's not like that. The positions are like government-based. We all start off as "Voter". Then up to PTA Member, School Board Member, City Councilman, Mayor, etc.

Like government, the more you participate, the more you ascend in rank/position.

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