What do you think about the whole interracial dating thing? Me being a product of an interacial marriage, of course I am in support of them!(lol) But it's weird that my mom is white and my dad is black but I could never see myself dating a white man-I wonder why that is.

I know sombody is bound to say the whole,"mixed kids have a greater chance of being picked on at school and they are going to have a tough life because they are mixed."-But in my whole 20 years on this earth(not that,that is old or anything) I have yet to be picked on for being mixed. Another thing people often say is that mixed children will go through this whole identity crisis with themselves. Again in my 20 years of life I have never had a point where I doubted who I was or felt torn between the two races.I do not hide the fact that I am mixed from anyone, but I don't exactly walk up to people and say,"Hi, I mixed," it doesn't always come up in conversation, but most people know. SO how do u feel about this whole thing???

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To know me is to love me!

Don't hate me b/c of the things I say, hate me b/c I have the nerve to say them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Poor people desire money, rich people desire heaven, but the wise person desires tranquility.
Original Post
quote:
originally posted by Nykkii:

not to put all the blame on black men for making the choice to cross over--there's an issue with the us as black women driving our men away--not be supportive, not being tough on him, but still understanding what he's facing as a man, (black-man) on a daily basis.




nykkii i'm feeling every part of your post except this. i don't agree. i think sisters get a lack of support from black men because black men are either choosing to be thugs (and incidentally listening to songs in which every other word is b*tch or ho), or date white women. i know i know, the black male is more likely to be victimized by the criminal justice system. and that's real. but i have never met a sister who wasn't aware of that and didn't respond accordingly. give us alittle credit will yah? just because she takes no crap does not mean that black women are driving the men away. why does a woman have to be silenced for a black man to feel like a man?
little minx, i'm gonna love having you here!!

i agree that NO WOMAN should be silenced for a man to feel like a man. but i can only speak from my experiences. and i felt it was important to put it out there that black men aren't ALWAYS choosing to be with non-black women because of "love", "stupidity" (all the reasons that blow my mind), "status", there are some black men out there who have tried to be with us...and unfortunately they've been with black women who've been bitter, been hard, had serious chips on their shoulders which have made these black men say NO MORE, or at least NO MORE for a while.

i give us a lot of credit...and i will always believe no one can understand what it's like to walk around in this beautiful brown skin than someone else with beautiful brown skin. no matter how stoopid he may get--he know's where home is, and i'd like to think sistah's will always be here for him.

those who stand for nothing fall for anything
if the reasons are the same.....status, easier, the "in" thing to do (i have male friends of friends who less than a year ago said--white girls are out...i've gotta get me an asian girl!) then it's the same.
i have to say--it still hurts to see a brother with any female if she isn't black, but if she's of some "ethnic" brown skinned background, it doesn't hurt quite as bad.
i'd have to say that's because i don't remember hearing any history lessons about Latin, or Asian men raping my great great grandmothers, stealing her children, separating her families, and killing her sons for looking at their women.

those who stand for nothing fall for anything
I think black women accept a black man dating a latina 10 times more than they would if it was a white woman, because a latina is still a woman of color-a minority. She(being the latina woman) is opressed just as we(being the black woman) are, so to them it is more accepting.

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The Lord is on my side;I will not fear:what can man do unto me?
(Psalms 118:6)


To know me is to love me!
I know I'm late here, actually new to this board, but anyway, MBM that Atlanta New Article you posted was a load of BULL. Firstly, these "interviews" with the women in that article were wack. Their "opinions" could be seen by some as fact. Here are some important factors either missed or "glossed" over in that article.

1. Are these Black Women attractive? are they "fuller figured"?? Men can't be expected to want to "hump the plump" anymore than women do. Are women attracted to "fuller figured fellas"?? Of Course NOT!!! Maybe these women need to "upgrade themselves" and improve their look

2. Are they bitter because they are "husband hungry" and "waiting to exhale" before their bio-clocks expire??

3. What do they wnat in a relationship? Friendship?? Love?? Or a dude to help them pay their bills, i.e. credit cards, student loans, etc.

4. Are they only looking for dudes that are "thugged out"/bad boys?? Black women, esp. younger one, PREFER Black men that have a "Dirty" past, i.e. drug dealing, criminal rap sheet, etc. Have you ever seen a Drug dealer without a black woman riding next to him in that new Lexus?? NOPE, next point!!

5. Why didn't they pursue a relationship/hold onto a relationship with a dude at their colleges?? Those dudes were on the "right track" and futuristic. Maybe ray-ray/pooh on the streets were hollering at them, You know, "thugs get lonely" - Tupac

6. Do they have kids? Many men REFUSE to date a woman with her "ready made, just add a daddy/hubby" instant family. Many women with kids, who also never married, aren't likely to have more kids or SEX, before marriage. That's kinda strange since she OBVIOUSLY had sex before marriage with some other guy. If a dude was a "good man" he could be with many different women, why would he choose one with baggagge, esp. since many of these women aren't really single, i.e. still sexing babydaddy dude, just single, like not married. DRAMA DRAMA BABYMOMMA DRAMA!!!

7. Are these women "drama-addicts"? Many Black women, men avoid drama, if they can help it. Many Black women are trifling.

8. What mistake have these women made in relationships? If you ask them, NONE. IT ALWAYS THE MAN's FAULT esp. if you are talking to hens at a beauty salon...hehehehe

9. If white women are "stealing", as some Black women put it, the Black man away...Why not treat a Black man with respect and DROP THE ATTITUDE..and maybe you can have a man. If you truly feels that something is being taken away from you. Why not ask the white woman in that relationship "How do you love a Black man, cuz I have absolutely no clue".

10. Are they gold diggers waiting for the richest guy they can find so that they can be "truly in love"?? Many black women are, just look at the lines at a regular "single's night party" vs. the lines in front of an "NBA/NFL starts party".

OOPS, I'm sorry, please forgive me for breaking up this Black women "all Black men are trifling" web party. I apologize for telling the truth. Checkmate!!!
These are some of the points I have on this article. Please try in the fututre to post article that FAIRLY display BOTH sides of the issue. It's only fair.

"Only the extremely ignorant or the extremely intelligent can resist change."
-- Socrates (470?-399 BC),

[This message was edited by OldSkool on August 22, 2002 at 07:23 AM.]

[This message was edited by MBM on August 22, 2002 at 09:21 AM.]
Finally! I have been waiting all of my life to meet and hopefully marry a man who could make me laugh as much and as hard as you just did. You are comedy, baby. Listen, I would ask you to marry me right now; but, i can see that you have some hang-up when it comes to black women and that you may in fact be gay- which is cool. Anyway, I would have loved to have seen the unedited version of this post!!! Keep making me laugh.
As a single mom at work and making more money than the top .001% of this country, I need a little levity from time to time. Thanks again.
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Finally! I have been waiting all of my life to meet and hopefully marry a man who could make me laugh as much and as hard as you just did. You are comedy, baby. Listen, I would ask you to marry me right now; but, i can see that you have some hang-up when it comes to black women and that you may in fact be gay- which is cool. Anyway, I would have loved to have seen the unedited version of this post!!! Keep making me laugh.
As a single mom at work and making more money than the top .001% of this country, I need a little levity from time to time. Thanks again.

I'm already married, to a beautiful Black woman. No hangups here. Not gay. Why can't people just debate the facts of a post without trying to psychoanalyze the individual. I gave absolutely NO traits for you to analyze. Are you gay because you are criticizing me, a Black Man?? You must be, that's your standard of analysis.

You are saying that the article posted was true?? Are Black women just perfect beings above any level of criticism?? I think not. Please read and re-read the article and see how criticial the women in that article are of Black men. Pretty strange how a group can freely give out criticism without themselves accepting any of it. EVEN WHEN IT'S BASED OFF ON TRUTH!!!
Just checking that article [harshly] and ripping it to shreds. It assumes way too much and proves way too little. My post lists reeasons why those women arre 30-40 yrs old and single, and probably why they will remain that way forever. Just checking the facts, and not finding much. My hatred for Black women?? No you don't understand...I PROVED I LOVED BLACK WOMEN WHEN I SAID "I DO". Point proven

"Only the extremely ignorant or the extremely intelligent can resist change."
-- Socrates (470?-399 BC),
Not necessarily. Anyway, I was just funnin' with ya. Believe me, I am the first person to realize that you can't judge a book by its on-line posts/cover!! I actually agreed with your assessment more than I let on. But, I do wonder what your wife would think about your recent posts. Does she share your views?
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Not necessarily. Anyway, I was just funnin' with ya. Believe me, I am the first person to realize that you can't judge a book by its on-line posts/cover!! I actually agreed with your assessment more than I let on. But, I do wonder what your wife would think about your recent posts. Does she share your views?

Please Explain, why would I marry a Black women, if I hated all Black women? Why bother with the wedding? My love for Black women or women in general is not the issue here. I'm just reviewing an article that I view as whack, and gave ten bulleted points to prove my point of view. .My wife recommended this site to me. She agrees with my views and has even more harsher things to the women in that article. This article BTW was a frequently forwarded email that she received, printed, and laughed at for days. She understood the people in the article, but, like me, found it strange that they didn't accept any of the responsibilty to their own single life. I'd learned awhile ago that you can't fully place blame on any one thing. Life is too complex for that. Problems typically have many levels to them and the one more forgetten about [ in relationships/dating] is personal responsibility. I understand how my post maybe be humorous to some, esp. on here under these "close-minded" conditions. I hope that I answered your questiions, take care.

"Only the extremely ignorant or the extremely intelligent can resist change."
-- Socrates (470?-399 BC),
Well, since you asked... First, i was just addressing the statement that one {NOT necessarily you, as i don't know you, etc.} could marry a woman and not necessarily love women. You know, like married child molesters, married closeted individuals, men who marry within their own race because it's expected; but, always preferred another race, etc. REMEMBER, i am just answering the question NOT trying to make any inferences this time. Anyway, I meant it when i said that you're funny {without meaning to be, obviously}, but, i also meant it when i said that I agreed with some of your points {which, of course, is to say that they were valid smile}. Anyway, yes, this site can be skewed to one side, and may therefore seem closed-minded. But, the pendulum does swing both ways, and views like yours make this site more interesting,in my opinion. Since you said that your wife recommended the site, is she also planning to contribute? It would be interesting to hear from a woman with views similar to yours that you have expressed on this and on the other threads. Does she also call women "hens"? Anyway, do come back and see us sometime.
My wife is a member, i think. She is in grad school now and her daytime is full. "Hens" is an old country term, and since I'm old country folk, it fits into my vocab. Her views, and mine as wellas, is for women to "take the bull by the horns",or TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE!!!, not let life take control of you!!! I'm a free spirit, but I understand the need to make things happen instead of sitting around and complaining about crap. "get into the game", is how my wife puts it. She ripped this article as well because she was reading it for fairness, there was none. Why didn't the author interview more dudes???' she asked me when we read it one evening. I guess that since Atlanta has alot of single women there, that's where I met my wife, the article/newspapaer has to adjust to the audience. Could this article be printed in a Black Men's Magazine? Why not? Reason, it isn't fair. Anyway, my wife would post more of her views if she had more time to.

As far as you original post, I was just wondering how you were an amateur online psychoanalyzer, yet assumed that I was gay and hated Blak women. Not to be hateful, but that was way offline. I guess my post are a bit of a shock to some seeking a "you go girl!!" or "Amen" from other "hens" about topic such as this, but I'm all about honest analysis of a problem and reaching solutions. If people are not seeking that, please don't read my post, I beg you, PLEASE. Cuz I ain't changing. Take care

"Only the extremely ignorant or the extremely intelligent can resist change."
-- Socrates (470?-399 BC),
Oldskool: "Not to be hateful..." Hey, you're not being hateful!!-- you're just being you! {smile}. Anyway, I have been known to joke WAY TOO MUCH and for some reason you just seemed so ripe for the ribbin'! I DEFINATELY was not trying to psychoanalyze you with the other stuff that i was saying. But, seriously, there is a right way to debate and a wrong way. This was a joke to show you that being meanspirited does not get your point heard as much as reacted against. At least that's what they taught us in kindergarden. Anyway, no one here is a hen and no one here would reject a well thought out honest analysis of a problem. P.S. You said that you ain't changing. Then, to quote Socrates, you must be either extremely ignorant or extremely intelligent, right? big grin
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Oldskool: "Not to be hateful..." Hey, you're not being hateful!!-- you're just being you! {smile}. Anyway, I have been known to joke WAY TOO MUCH and for some reason you just seemed so ripe for the ribbin'! I DEFINATELY was not trying to psychoanalyze you with the other stuff that i was saying. But, seriously, there is a right way to debate and a wrong way. This was a joke to show you that being meanspirited does not get your point heard as much as reacted against. At least that's what they taught us in kindergarden. Anyway, no one here is a hen and no one here would reject a well thought out honest analysis of a problem. P.S. You said that you ain't changing. Then, to quote Socrates, you must be either extremely ignorant or extremely intelligent, right? big grin



I think I'm intelligent. I understand you point, but it seems like every female problems get shifted over to some dude. I take offense to that. I hope people can be more opened minded to understand the other side of the coin. The "hen party" reference was from the "you go girl" theme this board has taken.

"Only the extremely ignorant or the extremely intelligent can resist change."
-- Socrates (470?-399 BC),
I also agree with Faith that calling women 'hens' is uncalled for. That said, I welcome your perspective on personal responsibility and the danger and misdirection that comes when we shift blame to others. However, if you have the time {like a few days!!!} read all of the posts from the women and men of aa.org. You will find that many of us not only accept our own part in bad situations/relationships, but even go to the unhealthy end of complete self-blame. All sides are represented if you look closely. Stay awhile and see. smile
quote:
Originally posted by OldSkool: Are women attracted to "fuller figured fellas"?? Of Course NOT!!!


I am! I like them all. There's just something sexy to me about Heavy D and Fat Joe. I date all different size men-so that was totally wrong of you to say that of all women. And I am in no way a "ugly" woman and can only attract "fat" men-I just like to snuggle up to someone with a little weight on them now and then!
wink

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The Lord is on my side;I will not fear:what can man do unto me?
(Psalms 118:6)


To know me is to love me!
quote:
Originally posted by msprettygirl:
quote:
Originally posted by OldSkool: Are women attracted to "fuller figured fellas"?? Of Course NOT!!!


I am! I like them all. There's just something sexy to me about Heavy D and Fat Joe. I date all different size men-so that was totally wrong of you to say that of all women. And I am in no way a "ugly" woman and can only attract "fat" men-I just like to snuggle up to someone with a little weight on them now and then!
wink

------------------------------
The Lord is on my side;I will not fear:what can man do unto me?
(Psalms 118:6)


To know me is to love me!


I'm not saying would you or wouldn't you. It's more like a preference. WOuld you turn down Denzel and Blair Underwood, for say Al Roker and Mark McKwen?? Of Course not. Point made, thank for your reply

"Only the extremely ignorant or the extremely intelligent can resist change."
-- Socrates (470?-399 BC),
old,

i think your original statement was inflammatory and uncalled for. you don't agree fine. but alot of what you said was just insulting. maybe you want to take a look at yourself,like you think black women should. if we're the hens why are you the one who just laid an egg in here?

it's easy for you to sit there and say that it's a woman's own fault that there seems to be a problem with the community. you haven't experienced a shortage of potential mates, you haven't been a woman, and you certainly don't seem to want to try and sympathize at all. the shortage may not be an issue for all black women, but it is an issue for too many. the problem is not that black women are gold diggers, or hung up on the superficial (like looks-actually that's more of a guy thing. . .remember your comments about humping the plump?).

some women are superficial. and for those women, that is their problem. i guess you don't seem to realize that alot of brothers can be detrimentally superficial. . .she's gotta be fine, she's gotta have long hair, she's gotta be light skinned, she's gotta look like a supermodel first thing in the morning, she's gotta have perfect feet, blah blah blah. . .and drama? often brothers think it's drama when a woman wants respect. if she calls him on his behavior or won't take his foolishness, she's causing "drama".

but what about the hard working woman who is just looking for a partner and is frustrated at every attempt to connect with a brother and then has to endure seeing some black men use every excuse in the book to be with a white woman? what about the church going woman who can't find a guy? the women in that article are going to college trying to better themselves. the article,if you actually bothered to read the post, noted that the men in those colleges seem to be shopping the women and not committing to them. so maybe the woman do want to commit to a man there, but the men are too busy enjoying the fact that they are outnumbered by the women.

if you want to talk that way, i suggest you go back to the barber shop and gaffaw with the boys about your numbered points. it's hard to agree with anything put quite so distastefully.
quote:
Originally posted by little minx:
old,

i think your original statement was inflammatory and uncalled for. you don't agree fine. but alot of what you said was just insulting. maybe you want to take a look at yourself,like you think black women should. if we're the hens why are you the one who just laid an egg in here?

**I feel that the Atlanta article was "inflammatory and uncalled for". I didn't CREATE the term "hens", haven't you ever heard of the term "hen party"? It's a "women's only" environment in which the male point of view isn't just absent, it's repelled. That's how this environmet appears to me. How could anyone write an article like that? That's my question. How could someone post it on her, as if this article was "evidence" of someone feelings. You have to admit that the article is "tilted" to the side of the women in the piece, not fair.**

it's easy for you to sit there and say that it's a woman's own fault that there seems to be a problem with the community. **Not true, it's the women's fault for sitting around in a beauty shop complaining without jumping up and doing something about it. You can't just wait for life to "happen" to you and then complain when it goes other then how you expected it.***

you haven't experienced a shortage of potential mates, you haven't been a woman, and you certainly don't seem to want to try and sympathize at all.
**WRONG!!! I'm a Educated Black man, and I noticed a VERY HIGH PERCENTAGE OF EDUCATED BLACK WOMEN "THUG LOVING". Many have told me that they "wanted a bad boy". I HAVE experienced a "shortage of potential dates/mates. So you are wrong on that!!!***

the shortage may not be an issue for all black women, but it is an issue for too many.
**If these women are unattractive, 500 lbs, have kids, trifling, etc. they shouldn't EXPECT dates, much like men with the same qualities. People, or women specificially should not blame a "ratio" of men to women for there problems [of not having a date/mate] based off of their appearance and life chioces. The article didn't even mention that and why not? it was narrowly tailored to it's audience, Black women.**

the problem is not that black women are gold diggers, or hung up on the superficial (like looks-actually that's more of a guy thing. . .remember your comments about humping the plump?). ***Really guys are hung up on looks?? and Black women don't golddig?? Right right, Please explain how come a Single's night party in DC has no line, yet a NBA Allstar weekend party at the same club has a line around the block full of Black women, yet Black women aren't Sports fans in large numbers?? I think they are golddigging, right?? Or maybe they just buy short skirt every friday and like to show them off in night clubs that happen to have NBA players in them. Black women not that stuck on looks?? How come the azadaye Calender was a best seller?? It had Black male models in it [wearing swimsuits]?? Why didn't Black women request a calendar with Al Roker, Mark McEwen, and other "fuller figured fellas" in it?? Would it sell out?? Why do Black women discuss topics like which would you date, Blair Underwood, Denzel, or Rick FOx?? All these dudes are married to someone else and have small kids. Are Black women discussin these topics just to pass thetime?? or are they "stuck on superficial things like looks. Point of Note, in an argument if both sides do the same thing, then it isn't a point of discussion, i.e. "Black men do this, so do Black women...it's even!!".

some women are superficial.*What?? really, I don't believe that!! hehehehe*

and for those women, that is their problem. i guess you don't seem to realize that alot of brothers can be detrimentally superficial. . .she's gotta be fine, she's gotta have long hair, she's gotta be light skinned, she's gotta look like a supermodel first thing in the morning, she's gotta have perfect feet, blah blah blah. .
**Are your sure Black women have never said "Light skin men make good babies??" Are you sure Black women never turn down dudes that are too dark?? Too fat?? Too ugly?? too short?? huh?? right, right.NEXT**

.and drama? often brothers think it's drama when a woman wants respect. if she calls him on his behavior or won't take his foolishness, she's causing "drama". ***Drama is having long, lingering problems, i.e. babymomma/babydaddy drama. I personally avoid with with these difficulties. For the most part she is needy and not "holding it down". I'm a man, not a SAVIOR***

but what about the hard working woman who is just looking for a partner and is frustrated at every attempt to connect with a brother and then has to endure seeing some black men use every excuse in the book to be with a white woman?
**Red flag!!! I never said white women. That's a hot button I don't wanna touch yet. Let's first complete the analysis of the Black women first, because she needs to understand herself before she tries to look for love. I'll return to this lata!!!***

what about the church going woman who can't find a guy? ***What does the church have to do with anything?? We all should go to church or at least Pray to be closer to God or the God force of whatever religion. I don't see that as a help or hinder to finding a mate.***

the women in that article are going to college trying to better themselves. the article,if you actually bothered to read the post, noted that the men in those colleges seem to be shopping the women and not committing to them.
***Like I said, I received this article email thru my wife, she handed it to me and we laughed our way thru it. The Black women in the article, like I posted in my ten point reply[if you bothered to read it!!!] As for college, at my school, the largest school in my state, the Black women openly pursued the local drug dealers and "flashy car drivers", they had not interest in a futuristic dude hitting the books, but after they [these women] reach that "waiting to exhale/GAME OVER/Bio-clock..tick tick tick" stage of their lives they look back and wonder where they went wrong. Did these women admit that they turned down dudes in school that were not the "in thing", i.e. light skinnted, "good hair", bad boy, etc. at the time?? OF COURSE NOT!!! ALL THE BLAME IS ON BLACK MEN...ALL OF IT!!...Trifling!**

so maybe the woman do want to commit to a man there, but the men are too busy enjoying the fact that they are outnumbered by the women.**Nope, read above, i answered this., Please read the life story of Kemba Smith, she was Hampton University student that turned down an Undergraduate Physics major, so that she can roll with the street thug near her college. She got arrested for drug dealing because she was guility by association, now she is free she travels the country to tell other young BLACK WOMEN not to roll with the thugs, why does she need to tell others not to do that?? isn't is obvious?? I guess she knows what the style is, "thug loving!!!" www.afn.org/~iguana/archives/2001_01/20010115.html ***



if you want to talk that way, i suggest you go back to the barber shop and gaffaw with the boys about your numbered points. it's hard to agree with anything put quite so distastefully.
**Actually barbershops are usually full of women there with their young sons, usually since pops jetted. But you bring up an interesting point here, why is it that Black women gather and yakk so negatively about Black men in general?? Black men don't gather and negatively diss Black women. I'm not talking about "my wife this and that"...I mean very general, "all Black women are..." Never heard a brother say these things, yet I here NUMEROUS SISTERS SAY IT!!! WHY??? I use to work in my Grandmoms Hair salon and that baffled me, even until today. First, there are no good Black men. Then, there are no place to meet Good Black men. Then, All Black men are lazy and broke. BLAH BLAH BLAH. These women never looked at themselves and planned any upgrades. Very weird how they can criticize, yet not receive criticism. I would gladly go to a place where Black men "openly diss" Black women, Where should I go??***



"Only the extremely ignorant or the extremely intelligent can resist change."
-- Socrates (470?-399 BC),
YEAH RIGHT!!! black men never put black women down. you went as far as to use the word NEVER??? after i finished laughing at that one, i decided to write back and let you know that this is a complete distortion. you make it out to seem as if black men have halos and black women are evil she things trying to bring them down. i believe you are the one with the one sided view,. . .brother. black men put black women down on the regular. how many songs feature the word bitch and ho? but black women don't complain about the way black artists portray them. black women seem to jam to the same tunes, as if we have completely given up on the issue. how often are women portrayed as nothing but sexual objects in music video?as i said in an earlier post, god forbid black women put out a song like "no scrubs" that tells black women not to accept just anything. the brothers had to have a come back song! remember no pidgeons? and god forbid a film that is made to uplift black women or document their causes is released. black men got mad at waiting to exhale, and at the color purple. but when women are negatively protrayed on the big screen, where's the fuss? it always burns me up to see the double standard alive and well in pictures like "the best man" where it wasn't emphasized that the chestnut character should maybe forgive his fiance's one infidelity because he's cheated on her numberous times over the past. that wasn't important. have you noticed a double standard in our relationships with black men? ofcourse not, you're on the beneficial end of it. how many women are left with a babydaddy instead of a husband or boyfriend? this is in epidemic proportions. you actually think this is all the woman's fault? if i had a penny for every time i heard a black man call a woman a name, or say negative things about women, i'd be rich. maybe all those years in the beauty parlor screwed up your perception of things, cuz black men can be quite insulting. as you have demonstrated quite nicely. please don't tell me that black men are on the whole so good at taking responsibility for things. if it's not the white man's fault, it's the black woman's fault. you yourself seem to feel that black women are to blame for the topic at hand. do you mean to imply that all that the women here are saying is a lie? black men aren't at all to blame? if that's your point, then who's not taking responsibility? you sound like white people who say that black folks are to blame for their own problems. i bet you'd get real upset if a white person said that to you, even if you won't admit that in response to this post. nice try, but no dice buddy
in reading the most recent debate, i have some questions and some observations...

i think a lot of what is being debated is mute. it happens on both sides--both men and women are guilty of it.

oldskool--you are straight OLD SCHOOL! lol

true or false most black men would plan dates like walking in the park or visiting a museum?
--this was a comment from the article, saying white men do this but the avg. black man wouldnt. personally i think it depends on what your interests are--but i do see the writers point.

true or false most black men can (LM)handle being with an independent, professional black woman who often has more formal education than they do?

do most black men really think(LM)most black women are gold diggers, or hung up on the superficial things?

or is this equal between the sexes?

(LM)a lot of brothers can be detrimentally superficial. . .she's gotta be fine, she's gotta have long hair, she's gotta be light skinned, she's gotta look like a supermodel first thing in the morning, she's gotta have perfect feet?

TRUE--SOME black women do say things like this(OS) ["Light skin men make good babies??" ] but not all.

OS: --->Are you sure Black women never turn down dudes that are too dark?? Too fat?? Too ugly?? too short?? <---of course black women have done this--but so have black men. [mute point)

true or false most black men think
(LM)it's drama when a woman wants respect. if she calls him on his behavior or won't take his foolishness, she's causing "drama". **if this isn't drama, is it considered a black woman being difficult?

this again is a mute point--both men and women are guilty of this (OS) "Drama is having long, lingering problems, i.e. babymomma/babydaddy drama"

OS: "it's the women's fault for sitting around in a beauty shop complaining without jumping up and doing something about it. "
**what would you suggest? for those of us are doing something...not waiting on someone--we get the "too independent" label, so what should we do?

OS: If these women are unattractive, 500 lbs, have kids, trifling, etc. they shouldn't EXPECT dates, much like men with the same qualities. <--- dont really see the point here. ALL PEOPLE, MEN and WOMEN regardless of their physical appearance deserve companionship. that comment was just plain mean.

OS: a VERY HIGH PERCENTAGE OF EDUCATED BLACK WOMEN "THUG LOVING".
As for college, at my school, the largest school in my state, the Black women openly pursued the local drug dealers and "flashy car drivers", they had not interest in a futuristic dude hitting the books, but after they [these women] reach that "waiting to exhale/GAME OVER/Bio-clock..tick tick tick" stage of their lives they look back and wonder where they went wrong. Did these women admit that they turned down dudes in school that were not the "in thing", i.e. light skinnted, "good hair", bad boy, etc. at the time?? OF COURSE NOT!!! ALL THE BLAME IS ON BLACK MEN...ALL OF IT!!...Trifling!**
***your example is a microcosm of the entire nation....things are NOT like this all over!! Seek to see things on a national level and not just what's in your backyard. with that said, I do see this trend happening with our YOUNG black women (high school-early 20's)...and hopefully it's just a trend. But you have to know that the proportion of men available to them is drastically more out of proportion than it is for women in their late twenties and early thirty's. As more young black men choose the "thug life" over college and military, more young black men are imprisoned and killed. The lack of (mates/dates) problem is only going to get worse.

OS: --->Black men don't gather and negatively diss Black women. I'm not talking about "my wife this and that"...I mean very general, "all Black women are..." Never heard a brother say these things, yet I here NUMEROUS SISTERS SAY IT!!! WHY???
**i'd say black men in general are in HIGH DEMAND right now, and they don't have to sit around and discuss ANY woman negatively (black women, white women, green women). As long as your product is in demand, you shouldnt have anything negative to say about your consumer.

OS: How come the azadaye Calendar was a best seller?? -----> because EVERYONE loves black men!! you think only BLACK WOMEN bought those calendars--that's crazy!

let's get past the shallow folks and down to the REAL hard working, more than surface, non-materialistic black men and women out there and disucss this topic!
those who stand for nothing fall for anything

[This message was edited by Nykkii on August 24, 2002 at 04:41 PM.]
i'd like to be first to comment on this...as i feel strongly about this issue. my men/women relationships topic initially started off as this topic.
quote:
are we becoming more open to other races? or have we been? what are your thoughts on interracial dating/marriage? what do you think race blending is doing to our culture--to the children of african decent? will they know their heritage?

i am the product of a black-black marriage, but was raised and am still living in a predominately white part of America. The northwest is very open, very progressive, and very accepting. It is the Mecca of "jungle-fever". i've said this before and i'll say it again--if the feva was a real disease, the Pacific Northwest would be quarantined!!

my personal view on inter racial dating/marriage is bottom line to each his own. if "love" is the basis and foundation of a relationship-no one has the right to judge that.

BUT---when a black man makes a conscious decision to date non-black women because they are "easier to get along with", "they give them anything and everything", "they accept them for who and what they are", "its a status thing", "if you're gonna be with one, be with one that would make a white guy jealous"--all reason's i've heard because i've asked. that to me is unacceptable.

when my brotha walks by me with his non-black woman on his arm and can't look me in the eye, can't give me a return hello, or looks at me like i'm not worthy--that's a problem.
jill scott's "do you remember me" is all about that right there!

some of these men have a serious issue with either their self-identity, the way they look at black women or both. And some of them are just not worth the effort of wondering about where their heads are. not to put all the blame on black men for making the choice to cross over--there's an issue with the us as black women driving our men away--not be supportive, not being tough on him, but still understanding what he's facing as a man, (black-man) on a daily basis.
the products of these relationships (the movement to beige smile)can either been well nurtured, well educated on who they are and what their mixed-race means (where they came from, how they are a part of two powerful cultures), or they can be left to be raised by one side or the other. it's when the latter happens that concerns me.

is it any better if the child is left with the black side of the relationship to be raised? the child is still missing out on half of who he is--but because white america is the dominating culture--there isn't the same concern (in my eyes) that this child is going to miss out on knowing about his other side. family things may go without knowing, but cultural things will be picked up--we as black american's know about white culture from just living here.

it's when i see kids, babies, with white families--because the father isn't around anymore, or was never around. and these children are being raised by families that don't know about black culture. they don't know how to take care of their hair, they aren't introducing them to black foods, black church, black books, black toys...these kids are missing out on half of who they are. which means 20 years from now--where will our culture be?
we're struggling right now as people to come together---but we're being diluted, and our history is fading with it. confused

those who stand for nothing fall for anything

[This message was edited by Nykkii on July 13, 2002 at 02:24 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by msprettygirl:

But it's weird that my mom is white and my dad is black but I could never see myself dating a white man-I wonder why that is.



Great topic; thanks for starting it!! It sounds like you grew up in a really healthy envirnoment. You have a solid sense of who you are (not too many of us do!). Congratulations!! smile

I see you're in New Orleans. Did you grow up there? I wonder if there is a bit more accepetance of inter-racial relationships and bi-racial people there? New Orleans has that stereotype. What do you think?

Can you say more about not dating a white man? Is this because even though you obviously know that you are both white and black, you think of yourself more as black? Do you hang around with a mixture of people, mostly black?

Onward and Upward!
quote:
Originally posted by Nykkii:
which means 20 years from now--where will our culture be?
we're struggling right now as people to come together---but we're being diluted, and our history is fading with it. confused



Great post. Thanks for sharing all of that Nykkii!

Hmmm - where to start?

First, I defintely resonate with your comment about seeing black or bi-racial children with white parents who know little or nothing about the child's culture. In some ways, they really know very little about who their own daughter is, or what she will experience in life. The personification of this, for me, is when I see a litte black girl with her hair just pulled up in huge afro-puffs or mismanaged in some awkward way (more frizzy hair!). I don't necessarily blame the white mother; I'm sure she's doing the best she can. It just speaks to the void that exists between our cultures. We sure know a whole lot about them. They know very little about us.

To your quote above, I share your concern, but am perhaps a bit more optimistic about how things will progress. African Americans have already survived the most egregious assault possible through the institution of slavery. We lost our families, culture, names, religion, language, connection to country of origin, etc., etc. Perhaps the greatest affront to us as a people came from slave owners wantonly raping our women. As a result - you see the rainbow that African America is today. If we can survive all of that, I think we can survive just about anything.

Onward and Upward!

[This message was edited by MBM on July 13, 2002 at 07:11 PM.]
msprettygirl,

I have no problem with interracial anything!! smile I believe I'm the only one of my girlfriends, though, that feels that way! Meaning that if the ratio was 1 in 4, I would be it! My parents (both black) moved from TX to CA in the 50's to get away from prejudice and raise my sis and bro in a place that was more tolerant. It worked! I was born there, and the whole "hatred" thing was merely a variety of horror stories while I was growing up.

I said that to say that my household was a virtual united nations ... my parents welcomed any and everybody and were very social, so I learned very early not to judge by color or race. There is good and evil in every race. That is why I have a really hard time understanding the attitudes of my girls on the subject of interracial dating ... at least 2 will (almost) get physically ill at the sight of a black man with a white woman!! And as I said, I really can't understand it .. because at the bottom line, it isn't any of their business anyway!! smile

When Halle Berry said that her mom told her that she should consider herself a black woman because anyone else that looked at her would, it said volumes of the dilemma faced by "mixed" children. All of the "mixed" people I know also take more towards their black culture than the white, not because they deny it, but because, in a way, I guess it's easier!

It's funny, but my neices and nephews are "mixed." Their father is black and their mother is Thai. In their "conflict" of being of 2 cultures, they run into a lot of other children of interracial couples, and it doesn't seem to make a difference .... if you're mixed with black and anything with black people is where they feel more at home and encounter less being picked on for their dual heritage.
I don't have a problem with interracial relationships in principle. But I do have a problem with interracial relationships in two cases. The first case, to sound shallow for a minute, is where the black person's appearance is incredible and their white mate's appearance is horrible. I notice that a lot more in interracial relationships than in black-black relationships or white-white relationships. It's as if the black person feels they have to look as immaculate as possible in order to be seen with even the most disgusting white person.

The second case is when you know that the black person prefers to date white people. Preferences are what they are, so I don't really know why this bugs me, but it does. Maybe it's because I feel this kind of black person has adopted the self-hating opinions about our people lock-stock-&-barrel, and feel that they key to betterment is to date outside.

But I'm not one to be bothered when I see the couple without knowing the situation.
To MBM to ansewer your questions: I have lived here all of my life except the first two years of my life. I guess, to think about it, down here it is common to see interacial couples, but it mostly is whites who turn there noses up at it more than blacks. But most people in New Orleans are a mixture of something, with the city being founded with spanish and creole influences, you would be surprised!So I guess it is more excepted down here than it would be somewhere else. But I can say this, I remember when I was a child me and my mom would get strange looks when we were in a store togeather(my mom is pale white and I am Jada pinkett's color), but as I have gotten older we don't get those looks anymore-so I guess the world is changing for the better, becoming more excepting.

About the whole me not dating a white man-I am just simply not attracted to white men. I mean I don't like rock and roll music or jazz like most white men, I don't feel I have anything in common with them. I am attracted to white men like eminem though-(you know the type!). As far as me idetifying with one side I would have to say I do lean toward the black side. I live in a white neighborhood, I don't really talk to anyone around the house. I go to a HBCU, my high school was equal whites and blacks, so I have been exposed to both sides. I have white friends, but my closest friends are black.



And to make it clear- I am for interacial dating, but I don't like the whole black man not wanting to date a black woman because of her "attitude", that is just ignorant. When you purposely shut out dating a whole race of people that is a problem. And as far as the whole frizzy hair thing(lol) I feel ya'll on that-I hate when I see that too. Fortunately my mom is a white women who can come some black hair!

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To know me is to love me!

Don't hate me b/c of the things I say, hate me b/c I have the nerve to say them.
Atlanta Journal Constitution article -
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More black women are willing to face the challenges
that go along with dating outside their race


By JOHN BLAKE
Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer


NICK ARROYO / Staff
Natasha Bailey, 23, and Jason Walker, 22, exemplify a growing trend -- black women dating white men.

The 23-year-old Bailey is an ebony-hued woman with dreads, a baby doll voice and a love of African culture so strong that she joined a West African rites of passage society.

But she's a traitor to some because she's dating Jason Walker, a 22-year-old white man. How could she, her friends ask, given how white men have treated black people.

"I'm the first one to say, OK, let's look at the history," the Atlanta resident says. "But to take that and put that on a person that's right here and now, I can't do that. That's unfair to that person. I judge them as they come."

Bailey represents a quiet revolution taking place among some black women. For years, they've complained about the shortage of eligible black men. Now they're no longer content to vent on "Oprah." If Mr. Right happens to be white, more are willing to cross the color line.

"I'm not going to sit on a porch in a rocking chair, all alone at 80 years old because of color," says Wanda Dunn, a 37-year-old Stone Mountain Web designer. "I don't see it as a turning away from black men but as expanding my options."

When it comes to interracial dating, people have traditionally focused on the taboo nature of black men dating white women. Yet statistics show that more black women are becoming involved with white men.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the number of black female/white male marriages remained relatively static between 1960 and 1980, increasing from 26,000 to 27,000. But by 2000, the number had jumped to 80,000.

Images of black women pairing with white men are now common in popular culture as well. Commercials and music videos are full of such couples. Halle Berry recently won an Oscar for her controversial role in "Monster's Ball," a film in which she plays a waitress who becomes involved with a white man. Berry also played the girlfriend of a white man in another film, "Swordfish." And Angela Basset played the girlfriend of Robert De Niro in "The Score."

Changing the script

The reasons driving black women to flip the dating script are varied. Some of it is simple exposure. Social divisions along color lines remain, but they aren't as rigid. Black women find themselves more in contact with white men in school, at the office and in social settings.

Janice Flowers is the Atlanta coordinator with Pre-Dating Events, a national company that schedules mixers for professionals. She says more black women are telling her that they're willing to date white men.

"Because we're so used to seeing them in social situations, it's becoming less of a taboo," she says.

The reason most often cited, though, for the change in dating attitudes is demographics. A disproportionate number of black men are in jail, or are murder victims. One in every 20 black men older than 18 is in prison, the 2000 Human Rights Watch report concluded. Black teenage males are seven times more likely to be murdered than white teenage males, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported.

The result is that black women face a marriage squeeze. According to the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies in Washington, the percentage of black women who are married declined from 62 percent in 1950 to 36 percent in 2000.

Melanie Robinson, 29, says many black men know the numbers favor them so they have less incentive to treat a black woman well.

"They have their options, so they can pick and choose," the Marietta resident says. "I've just found that there is a lack of appreciation of black women in Atlanta. We come a dime a dozen here."

Robinson, who has dated three white men, says they're more romantic and willing to go on dates like walking in the park or visiting a museum.

"I haven't found any black men trying to take me to the museum," she says. "I wish they would make an effort other than, 'Let's go and have a drink' or 'Let's go to the Red Lobster for all-you-can-eat crab legs on Monday.' "

Another complaint about black men involves insecurity. Black beauty-shop conversations ring with the same complaints from black women who say many black men can't handle an independent, professional black woman who often has more formal education than they do.

At least 60 percent of blacks who get awarded college degrees are women, according to the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education.

Flowers, the Atlanta coordinator with Pre-Dating Events, says a black man backed out of a relationship with her after she purchased a home and he learned that she had a college degree, something he had not earned.

"He said I didn't need him," she says. "It blew me away. I never could get him to see that [his lack of a college degree] was not a hindrance to me."

Black men have traditionally shrugged off these criticisms from black women, saying they are too demanding or obsessed with status and money.

"Even though the numbers may be in Atlanta men's favor, that doesn't make black women in Atlanta any less choosy," says Keith Aikens, a 36-year-old single black man. "Men still have to do a lot to prove themselves worthy."

Aikens, of College Park, says he sympathizes with black women who complain black men don't take them on cultural outings, such as to a museum.

"On the other hand," he says, "how many women are suggesting a museum instead of simply giving in and moving on to the next guy?"

Not an easy road

Once black women begin dating white men, though, hurdles remain. Many of them are internal.

Some wonder if a white man can really understand them, and the effects of racism. Will they draw a blank stare at the first mention of P-funk, nappy hair and playing the dozens?

Bailey has sifted through those fears with Walker and concluded they're overrated. She's had in-depth discussions about slavery, the light skin vs. dark skin caste system among blacks -- all with Walker, a white man.

"I've dated a lot of black men and they don't understand me, either," says Bailey, who is a published writer and a temp worker. "It's all about what you've read, what you've studied. I've dated people who have no understanding of the Middle Passage, colorism, any sort of understanding of the black experience. And they were black."

Sometimes, Bailey added, the fact that a white man is an outsider can be an asset. Often black men succumb to European ideas of beauty, but not her boyfriend. Once, she says, Walker turned to her while she was reading and said, "Your hair looks so beautiful."

"He pierced through my fears and my issues that have to do with blackness," she says. "From my past dealings with brothers, Jason has been more willing and open to see that I am beautiful as is."

Despite the harassment they sometimes get, Bailey says most people don't give her a problem when she accompanies her boyfriend in public.

"We'll get an occasional nasty look, but for the next two looks we get like that, we get a lot of those, 'Oh, look, a happy couple,' " Bailey says.

Yet Robinson, the Marietta resident, voices a fear that black women often have with dating white men. They wonder if white men's interest in dating is driven by sexual curiosity.

"White guys find us exotic," she says. "They want to know how we [have sex], but they aren't going to take us home."

Bailey, however, doesn't worry about those sexual stereotypes driving her relationship with Walker.

"The gist of it is, if we remove sex, we still work," she says about their relationship.

Walker, a computer programmer, says that dating a black woman has made him more sensitive. He often attends reggae clubs with Bailey where he is the only white person in the room.

"It's different being the odd man out," he says. "Actually, what goes through my mind is, I wonder if that's what it's like for her being on the other side of the table."

Even after black women have taken the big step and married a white man, some still wrestle with a residue of guilt. Nicole Smith, a Los Angeles actress, has been married to a white man since 1999. She and her husband, Geoff Cunningham, made a movie about interracial dating, "Rocky Road."

Smith says her sister threatened to never speak to her again after she heard about the marriage. Now her sister has changed after seeing how well her marriage works.

"My sister said that she dreams of having a relationship like ours," Smith says. "That was huge."

Still, Smith sometimes questions if she's being true to her black identity. "I question how much of a conscious black woman I am," she says. "I always keep that dialogue going."

Bailey doesn't appear to have those questions now. She's in love. She says she's decided that compatibility, not color, is what's ultimately important in her relationship.

"I've always understood that you can love your heritage and live your heritage," she says. "But that doesn't mean you close off the rest of the world, especially when you're dealing with matters of love."

Onward and Upward!
good post MBM! and with all my ranting and raving about interracial dating--I have to admit that the thought has crossed my mind.

I, like msprettygirl have never been attracted to white men--never felt I had anything in common with them, never thought I could see myself intimately engaged with them...but as I continue to meet black men from all across the country I wonder if I am limiting myself. I wonder if I am discounting a whole group of men with good hearts and intentions because of the color of their skin.

Like I said--the thought has crossed my mind and if it EVER happens, I'm sure the earth will shake and y'all will all know!! LOL big grin

those who stand for nothing fall for anything
I have no problem with people dating outside their race, in fact I did my entire senior year in high school and for a short time in college. I think that when you find someone who makes you happy and you enjoy being with them thats all that matters. To many people worry about what others think instead of worrying about their own happiness, when you do that instead of putting yourself first you make their approval most important.

I agreed with others on this forum that if you date outside your race because you found a person that you love great! But if you date outside your race because of some preceived weakness about black women then shame on you, if you can't deal with the strongness of a black woman then the fault is yours not theirs.
I posted this topic up on another site and to put it lightly I got some very rude and hatefulreplys.That is why I like this site so much! I respect peoples difference of opionions, but it's when you use vulgarity with it that I hate!

------------------------------
To know me is to love me!

Don't hate me b/c of the things I say, hate me b/c I have the nerve to say them.
well.....i've read with much interest this topic but feel especially connected to this one. i'm bi-racial, mom black--dad, british, the whitest white man 'cross the big pond...im talking translucent, red hair, freckles, blue skin. me, pretty squarely in the middle, leaning towards the fair--yellowish, and yep,got the freckles. i grew up in virtually an all white community,save church and my mother. i went to an all white college prep school, college 10% minority (blacks, asians, hispanics), and dating for me in high school and onto college was a matter of what was in my dating pool. my dating pool was preppy, rich, white boys--which is what you get used to. not by choice, i was 19 when i had my first "relations" with a brotha ( big grin). might've happened sooner, but i didn't have access to brothas.
dating white men definitely is an entirely different experience than dating a brotha, or a hispanic man or an asian man or any other culture (not race) for that matter.

as i have been privileged to "sample" the wares of many culture's finest, i find that it is so much less about culture/race than it is about treatment and how they can BRING IT! poor treatment and weak sex are the same in any culture, brothas no exception! so yep, at this point, i am an equal opportunity employer....and i'm taking applications!
thought i was done but i'm not.

with regard to my current group of friends...my friends call me rainbow coalition, because i have such a diverse mix of people in my direct circle of friends.

all of my life, due to how i was raised, i have struggled to walk the fine line that is "mixed". it takes effort to not allow yourself to be put in the black box, or the white box (most often for me it's the puerto rican box...lol).

my black friends are most often the ones most guilty of trying to make me choose, and that disturbs me. they are often very critical of my stance, but i defend it wholeheartedly.

my mother preached to me night and day about celebrating the best of both worlds...i have the skin tone white people are dying to have, hair that doesn't need any maintenance (curly today, blow dryed tomorrow)...i got a nice round bootie (thank you mom!) and i can talk proper and play the dozens with the best of them...i enjoy keeping people guessing...because most often when they find out the "truth" about my racial makeup..they have already learned something about culture that they previously had not known.

dating now tho for me is all about flava. im not dating a geeky man of any color...i need whoever i date to have flava....needs to be a renaissance man, in short. i'm not dating any wiggas (excuse the term), cause fundamentally i think they are confused. pe proud to be white, asian, etc etc, but also appreciate what i bring to that table as well, don't try to be black, cause you end up looking stupid, mcnupid.

now, here's where i get a little amused. new subject. i have a ten year old son...whose father is peruvian. seth is already showing an early preference to very girly, barbie doll types. to date, he has told me that he's found one black girl in his school attractive. i'm now trying to analyze to see where that's coming from. he is in an all white prep school as well, and i think i have managed to recreate my history...there are just not many opportunities for me to expose him to children of color because of his school community.....hmmmmmmm.

back to the lab.
i as well was raised in an all white community--8 of "us" im my high school graduating class of 300, and my dating pool was pale to say the least. you'd think that my views on white men would be different being as this is all i had to choose from growing up, but my preference is the exact opposite.

i remember being a sophomore..dying to get my driver's license so that i could drive to under age clubs in Seattle (30 miles away) just to be around people that looked like me. i know my father raised us where he did so that we'd have advantages he didn't have growing up...so that we'd speak differently, and know how to "inter-mingle" successfully. what he did paid off as myself and all of my siblings are college graduates and doing well for ourselves.

could the location of my upbringing be why i am so passionate about being with a black man??

my children on the other hand live in a very diverse neighborhood--with every race well represented in their schools...we'll see what happens with them!

those who stand for nothing fall for anything
Yes on a smaller scale, but no with the "broad sense." I say no because no matter how loving and careing a interacial couple is they will always have that one white or black person give them that,"What the hell or you thinking,"look.

------------------------------
To know me is to love me!

Don't hate me b/c of the things I say, hate me b/c I have the nerve to say them.
intimacy...means very personal, close contact between people. i don't see how looks, comments or anything from outside parties deter from the "intimacy" shared between a couple.
the private moments shared, the knowing looks, the familiar touches--those are all intimate things that dont depend on the color of anyone's skin.

those who stand for nothing fall for anything
quote:
Originally posted by Nykkii:
i don't see how looks, comments or anything from outside parties deter from the "intimacy" shared between a couple.


Let's take two black people who have never met, say - you and LibDem. Aside from whatever physical chemistry that you could generate, without knowing anything about the other person, you two could share a level of emotional intimacy based upon the shared experiences and culture of being black in America, that could never be achieved in an interracial relationship. There might be great empathy in an interracial couple, but I'm not sure that that's the same thing. As race and culture form the basis of one's core identity, I would think that this could make a difference.

To be clear, this is not an argument against interracial relationships. Any two people without regard to color, culture etc., can become a great couple. It just acknowledges that, even unconsciously, black men and women can share so much with each other because of the benefit of generations of common experience - aside from any chemistry between them.

Onward and Upward!

[This message was edited by MBM on July 18, 2002 at 09:04 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by: OldSkool:**Red flag!!! I never said white women. That's a hot button I don't wanna touch yet. Let's first complete the analysis of the Black women first, because she needs to understand herself before she tries to look for love. I'll return to this lata!!!***


The whole (intended) purpose of this thread was interracial dating/marriages-so why not talk about white women???
confused confused

------------------------------
The Lord is on my side;I will not fear:what can man do unto me?
(Psalms 118:6)


To know me is to love me!

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