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Updated: 09:58 AM EDT
Immigrants Hope to Show Strength With Boycott
By JON SARCHE, AP

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060430135909990001

DENVER (May 1) -- Thousands of illegal immigrants and their allies across the country plan a show of force Monday to illustrate how much immigrants matter in the U.S. economy.
Some will skip work, others will protest at lunch breaks, school walkouts or at rallies after work. There are planned church services, candlelight vigils, picnics and human chains.

Hector Castillo, a Denver baker, usually keeps his doors open 360 days a year. But anybody looking for his Mexican pastries or cookies will be out of luck Monday when Castillo plans to close his doors in sympathy with immigrants. For Castillo, 45, it's a protest against legislation in the U.S. House that would make it a felony to be an illegal immigrant.

"About 80 percent of our customers are Latin people, most of them Mexican, and the proposed law will affect all of us," he said.

Thanks to the success of previous rallies plus media attention, planning for Monday's events, collectively called Un Dia Sin Inmigrantes -- A Day Without Immigrants -- is widespread, though fragmented.

"It's highly unpredictable what's going to happen," said Harley Shaiken, director of the Center for Latin American studies at the University of California. "What unites everyone that's going to do something on May 1 is they are making visible their strong feelings."

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson said Monday he was concerned that the demonstrations "are going to be a distraction from what the real issue is, and that is the need for comprehensive immigration reform."

Rather than a boycott, immigrants should work to pressure Congress to pass legislation that would allow those already in the country to earn U.S. citizenship, Richardson told CBS' "The Early Show."

Sen. Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn., told CBS that the U.S. should first secure its borders to stem illegal immigration. "I would then prefer to see us come up with some way to let" immigrants here "pay a fine, pay a price, then learn English and get on a path to citizenship."

Some workers and immigrant advocates are worried that employees could lose their jobs or otherwise face negative consequences for skipping work to participate in protests.

"We're not officially coordinating a work stoppage. We are leaving it up to every individual. We don't want people to lose a job, but we want to encourage people to stand up for their rights," said Maria Rodriguez, head of the Florida Immigrant Coalition.

Activists planned marches, prayers and demonstartions in Ft. Lauderdale, Sarasota and other cities around Florida, but organizers did not expect as many people to attend Monday's events as the estimated 75,000 who attended an April 11 rally in Fort Myers.

Activists said a few immigrants lost their jobs after that march, and many were concerned about recent Homeland Security immigration raids, in which hundreds of immigrants with criminal backgrounds were rounded up in Florida and throughout the Midwest.

On the eve of the protest, about 3,000 people rallied for immigrant rights at a park in Lynwood, a heavily Hispanic Los Angeles suburb. Organizers of the demonstration called on residents and businesses to support the boycott.

Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa urged students to stay in school during the day and advised protesters against waving flags of their native countries.

"You should wave the American flag," he said. "It's the flag of the country that we all are proud of and want to be a part of. Don't disrespect the traditions of this country."

A rally in Chicago representing the city's Arab, Asian, black, eastern European and Hispanic communities, along with labor groups and religious leaders, could bring out as many as half a million people, organizers say. They urged immigrant workers to ask for time off and encouraged students to get permission to attend the demonstration.

"Stand in solidarity with people of all races and nationalities because immigration legislation does not just affect one group; it affects everyone!" Sadiya Ahmed, with the Council on American-Islamic Relations, wrote in a recent e-mail.

In smaller cities such as Allentown, Pa.; Omaha, Neb.; and Knoxville, Tenn., immigrants and their allies have been going door to door with fliers, making posters and sharpening speeches. In New Mexico, restaurants cooked meals this weekend to donate to picnics Monday in Santa Fe and Albuquerque.

In Pomona, Calif., about 30 miles east of Los Angeles, dozens of men who frequent a day labor center voted unanimously to close Monday, said Mike Nava, the center's director.

In New Jersey, Rhode Island, Oregon and Pennsylvania, people boycotting work will march to the offices of elected officials to urge them to support pro-immigrant legislation.

Activists in Florida said many immigrants were concerned about recent federal raids, in which hundreds of immigrants with criminal backgrounds were rounded up in Florida and throughout the Midwest.

"We're not officially coordinating a work stoppage. We are leaving it up to every individual. We don't want people to lose a job, but we want to encourage people to stand up for their rights," said Maria Rodriguez, head of the Florida Immigrant Coalition.

In California, a spokeswoman for Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said a boycott would "hurt everyone," while Democratic state senators passed a resolution supporting walkouts.

Opponents of illegal immigration spent the weekend building a fence to symbolize their support of a secure border. About 200 volunteers organized by the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps of California worked on a 6-foot barbed-wire fence along a quarter-mile stretch of rugged terrain near the U.S.-Mexico border about 50 miles east of San Diego.

In each of New York City's five boroughs, thousands of workers were expected to take work breaks shortly after noon to link arms with shoppers, restaurant-goers and other supporters for about 20 minutes.

"This will symbolize the interdependence of all of us, not just immigrants, but all of society," said Chung-Wa Hong, executive director of the New York Immigration Coalition.

Some big businesses are shutting down operations: Six of 14 Perdue Farms plants will close; Gallo Wines in Sonoma, Calif., is giving its 150 employees the day off; Tyson Foods Inc., the world's largest meat producer, will shut five of its nine beef plants and four of six pork plants.

The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops urged immigrants to attend Mass instead of boycotting, and suggested that churches toll their bells in memory of immigrants who died trying to come to the U.S. They also urged students to stay in school.

Denver-area contractor Chuck Saxton, who hires temporary workers, is sympathetic to the movement. "I'm going to go to support them. These guys come here, they work hard and they're honest," he said. "They provide a vibrancy to our economy and our country that is fading."

Associated Press writers Jon Sarche in Denver, Laura Wides-Munoz in Miami, Peter Prengaman in Los Angeles, Erin Texeira in New York and Nathaniel Hernandez in Chicago contributed to this report.
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All this talk about 'rights' for illegal immigrants has made me nauseous. I'm sorry but I'm not 'feeling' this.

I'm having a problem with the notion that folks who are here ILLEGALLY--from jump street--now seek 'rights' as if they are entitled.

Goodness! First, they want a driver's license (in CA) to allow them to DRIVE while in this illegal state--now they want more?

Yeah, I know, big business & corporations have contributed to this problem, and they too have violated immigration laws & regulations. . .blah, blah, blah. . .

Yes, I realize illegal immigrants only want to improve their quality of life. Who wouldn't? That's only natural.

HOWEVER~ black folk have been lynched, beaten, murdered, & jailed for FAR LESS. . .

And when black folk protested inhumane, racist treatment--they were beaten, lynched, murdered & jailed, did I repeat myself? Heck, even today. . . a black man can hardly drive through some areas without being stopped by the police for DRIVING WHILE BLACK...which is the new method of lynching black ppl, imho.

Yet it seems illegal immigrants can protest for "rights" without being shipped back to whence they came. What BS!!!!! What entitles them to any rights in this country anyway? Especially, when they haven't done what is required & necessary to legalize their status. AND why haven't they? We ALL must handle our business. . .even those who are here illegally.

Why should this country accommodate those breaking the law, when black folks couldn't get a damn break, if we bought a clue ... when black folk STILL suffer the ills of this nation via discrimination, racism, disparity in treatment, prejudice, injustice and so on...

If black folks have to abide by the LAWS of the land, then why shouldn't THEY? If black folk still cannot drive freely (in some areas & in some cases) without being harassed by the police, how can people who are here illegally be given "rights"?

This irks me, which is why I usually avoid the topic.

Now I need a drink. . .excuse me while I go get another cup of coffee. smh.
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TODAY WE PROTEST - TOMORROW WE VOTE

This was actually one of the slogans I (Jack) saw being carried by illegal aliens marching to protest U.S. immigration reform laws. And though warned not to, many have been protesting under their national flags....mainly Mexico. The protest today, May 1, falls on the same day that is a celebration of the Satanic high holy day of Beltane. It's also significant in the Communist world.

Bief Kashkooli, from the United Farms Workers' Union, told the BBC: "They are people who are working, who share the values that other Americans share. They're farm workers who are feeding the nation." Not quite. America is a Constitutional Republic governed under the rule of law. And no person is above the law. One cannot simultaneously break federal law and share American values of law and order.


May 1 - Today We Demonstrate - Tomorrow We Vote

I am taking the privilege of passing on to you part of Jack Kinsella's "Omega Letter Intelligence Digest" today, as I am a Contributing Editor to it. I highly recommend this subscription-only daily e-newsletter. The cost is $100 a year but you can try it free for one week. Visit this link: http://www.omegaletter.com/
But today's event isn't intended to take a position on the rightness or wrongness of obeying U.S. law. It is about the "right" being claimed by illegal immigrants to break US immigration law as a first step toward legal residency.

An official study published by the Mexican government's National Council on Population establishes that the Mexican government is pursuing a deliberate policy that IT terms "reoccupation." Sounds like the wailings of the Palestinians. Again we see the parallels between Israel and America. Only the names have been changed. Americans are "occupiers" of Mexican territory they obtained illegally. The Mexican government has formally embraced the concept of "demographic warfare"--re-conquering the southwestern United States thanks to emigration. Mexico is recovering the territories yielded to the United States by means of migratory tactics.

One cannot simultaneously break federal law and share American values of law and order. But today's activity isn't intended to take a position on the rightness or wrongness of obeying US law. It is about the "right" being claimed by illegal immigrants to break US immigration law as a first step toward legal residency. And "compassion" has nothing to do with it. The march's organizers don't intend to, as they put it, "shut down" America's biggest cities in order to break American hearts with their plight, but to break America's economy with their numbers.

Far Left Socialist and Communist outfits are also behind these activities. And using threats as a form of political persuasion has a name: Terrorism. If it works as planned, this will be just be the beginning.

JAN'S COMMENTS:

Is this a part of the decline of America? Perhaps. And particularly if Americans don't take a stand to end this theatre of the absurd immediately. Yet how many of our political leaders see the truth of this? How many more are looking for the Hispanic vote only? How many simply do NOT have America's best interest in mind be they Democrats or Republicans?

Contact your Congressmen and Senators. They know for every email or call, thousands more represent that sentiment. Right now only a few see the seriousness of these lawless actions or, if they do see it, they are looking the other way. Pray for the president who also seems to underplay the seriousness of these activities as well.

The weekend program on "Understanding the Times" will be posted to our "radio archives" later today, Monday. I discussed America's economic outlook in light of rising gas prices, a potential recession, and all the fall-out with John Terry, director of www.revelationfiles.com and an outstanding commentator on the economy and where it is headed. Also hear T.A. McMahon who is a part of Dave Hunt's ministry, The Berean Call.

Between Iran, Iraq, immigration, the war on terror, Israel, threats to our homeland, political corruption, and more, I believe America is in need of prayer more than any time in recent years. While many say in frustration,"But what can I do?", we can all spend some concerted time in prayer for our great nation. We prayed in unison after 9/11 and the implications of the immigration scenario pose as great a threat, if not worse.
Originally posted by ricardomath:
Originally posted by jazzdog:

One would hope that the criminal element among them would refrain from crime for a day.

----------------

This sounds alot like the standard refrain that I hear whenever Black folks protest something.

Roll Eyes

-----------

True enough. There's no doubt we live in a white, racist society which created the NEED for black folks to protest inhumane treatment, discrimination, injustice...& racism, however, black folks weren't just protesting 'something'...we had the LEGAL right to do so--criminal element notwithstanding.

Also, we were not in this country ILLEGALLY while protesting for those 'rights'...

I see this as a huge difference.

Roll Eyes
quote:
in this country ILLEGALLY


Ya...but WHO decided what was legal and illegal entry?

quote:
And when black folk protested inhumane, racist treatment--they were beaten, lynched, murdered & jailed, did I repeat myself? Heck, even today. . . a black man can hardly drive through some areas without being stopped by the police for DRIVING WHILE BLACK...which is the new method of lynching black ppl, imho.


So you would think that would make us more understanding of other peoples struggles.

The only time you hear people making issues like this is when they feel they feel their power is being "threaten". This "immigration issue" has been going on for a long time now. If we have 11 million hear now that have been hear then whats the problem?

And when it was US struggling and protesting we may not have been considered "illegal" but we were still second class citizens and still are...

The only time you hear people making issues like this is when they feel their power is being "threaten".
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:

quote:
in this country ILLEGALLY


Ya...but WHO decided what was legal and illegal entry?

-------------

I see your point, but I'm of the opinion--THAT is besides the point. The laws are in place and should be adhered to by everyone. Those who don't agree with the immigration laws...should be about the business of changing them. I won't rally around folks who are breaking the law-- right off the bat.

If I break the rules/laws, there are consequences...illegal immigrants, imo, should be held to the same standard.

-----------------------------

Fab: And when black folk protested inhumane, racist treatment--they were beaten, lynched, murdered & jailed, did I repeat myself? Heck, even today. . . a black man can hardly drive through some areas without being stopped by the police for DRIVING WHILE BLACK...which is the new method of lynching black ppl, imho.
---------------

So you would think that would make us more understanding of other peoples struggles.

The only time you hear people making issues like this is when they feel they feel their power is being "threaten". This "immigration issue" has been going on for a long time now. If we have 11 million hear now that have been hear then whats the problem?

And when it was US struggling and protesting we may not have been considered "illegal" but we were still second class citizens and still are...

The only time you hear people making issues like this is when they feel their power is being "threaten".

---------

I don't feel threaten--I simply disagree with you.

And there's no need for you to insult me or make a "personal" dig because I have an opinion on the topic.
quote:
I don't feel threaten--I simply disagree with you.

And there's no need for you to insult me or make a "personal" dig because I have an opinion on the topic

kiss
Fab,

I was not trying to insult nor make a pesonal dig. When I speak of "people" I was speaking about the masses that have made immigration an issue lately.

quote:
If I break the rules/laws, there are consequences...illegal immigrants, imo, should be held to the same standard.


Yes we have laws and in most cases they should be followed but I don't subscribe to the notion that something is "right" just because it is "law".

Slavery was "legal and the law" in this country. When Dr. King protested he was breaking the law
Ironically, their protest is having the reverse effect...at least from what I saw not too long ago. People were laughing and commenting on how great parking and traffic was this morning, and how fast they were able to get coffe and bagels. Many even said they left larger than average tips for meals just to be contrary against those who didn't show up for their jobs.
I think Hispanics are feeling a sense of POWER and that POWER is starting to corrupt their sensibilities. I think that they have politicians between a rock and a hard place, however, and thus can get away with it. The Republican Party is simply not viable in the future without expanding beyond its current white base. They likely will not get a significant percent of the black vote for the foreseeable future, without a change in policies. Hence, they need the Hispanic vote and even though their white base will be pissed, the Republican politicians will succumb because their base has no other option other than to vote democrat and the hate the democratic liberalism more than they hate illegal immigration.
Oh god, this makes me sick...
Every year thousands of LEGAL Mexican immigrants come here every year. Along with Africans,Asians, and Europeans.

ILLEGAL immigrants are not bound to the same rights(except human rights) as a legal immigrant/citizen.

The current discussion on illegal immigrants is not an assault on immigrants or Mexicans(although some racist are using this opprutunity to do so). This is an "assault" on people who do not go through the proper steps into becoming LEGAL.

I do not blame the people who jump the border, they are simply desperate to make some money, but they have not rights that LEGAL citizens are bound to.
quote:
The American and Mexican government


Yup. And it has been going on for years and years. So why is it NOW becoming an issue? When some people were benefiting from the cheap labor it was ok and we looked the other way...but now that it appears to have gotten out of control and that they are going to "out number" some groups it's an issue.

And what about Cubans? Did all of them get in legally? I know it is much harder but does the Cost guard do a better job then the Mexican border patrol?
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:

I don't feel threaten--I simply disagree with you.

And there's no need for you to insult me or make a "personal" dig because I have an opinion on the topic
-----------
kiss
Fab,

I was not trying to insult nor make a pesonal dig. When I speak of "people" I was speaking about the masses that have made immigration an issue lately.
--------------------

OK, MLM, I beg your pardon. kiss I read your post in haste, sorry. It's not a good idea to post when ya don't really have the time to. I see that I misinterpreted that part of your post. My apologies to you.

------------------------------

Immigration has been an issue for quite some time now, it has simply gotten progressively worse--too much has been ignored & allowed to fiester. I myself have been part of an organization (for almost 4 years now) that meets monthly to discuss the illegal immigration situation. It's been coming to a head for a while.

--------------------------

If I break the rules/laws, there are consequences...illegal immigrants, imo, should be held to the same standard.

-----------------------------

Yes we have laws and in most cases they should be followed but I don't subscribe to the notion that something is "right" just because it is "law".
----------------------------

As you well know, without laws/regulations/policies there would be no order, when does it stop? The county hospitals/public schools/welfare system etc., are already bombarded & practically bankrupt. Those who suffer the most (imo) as a result of this...are the poor/low income black communities & ppl.

Do we allow illegals to come over then reward them with "rights"...Every other country has immigration laws, why should this country be any different?

------------------------

Slavery was "legal and the law" in this country. When Dr. King protested he was breaking the law

------------------------

I don't & won't compare SLAVERY to the plight of illegal immigrants. There is no comparison in my opinion. Slavery was a HUMAN issue, as far as I'm concerned, while immigration is a LEGAL issue. It is their CHOICE to be here illegally, black folks didn't have the luxury of a "choice."

And the very REAL fact is, even THEN...black folk had an allegiance to this country. Where else could we go? These illegals (imo) have no allegiance to the U.S as evident by the flag some of them display & represent. Where exactly does their allegiance lay?

Another point regarding slavery... I don't see illegal immigrants hanging from trees or enduring the misfortune of having their genitals cut off, as did many black men during the time. This is & was inhumane. I see nothing 'inhumane' about adhering to stricter immigration laws.

As for Dr. King's protest, I'll say again...I consider the "black protest" a human issue--not comparable to making a "choice" to come over here for the purpose of improving your quality of life. Those racist fools (back then) were KILLING black folks...and they're STILL killing us.

I have no problem with illegal immigrants, as long as they do what is necessary to legalize their position in this country--just like everybody else. I don't feel immigration laws/policies should bend to accommodate their situation.

We all have a cross to bear. . .
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
quote:
The American and Mexican government


Yup. And it has been going on for years and years. So why is it NOW becoming an issue? When some people were benefiting from the cheap labor it was ok and we looked the other way...but now that it appears to have gotten out of control and that they are going to "out number" some groups it's an issue.

And what about Cubans? Did all of them get in legally? I know it is much harder but does the Cost guard do a better job then the Mexican border patrol?



You are correct. I have been hearing a lot of studies saying that Latinos will outnumber whites, and racist are scared !

Along with the Latino population rising, Asians will finally go into the double digits and become 10% of the population in about ten years. Asians are now merely 2% of the population today. Racist are scared !!!

Although I believe that some people are using this immigration issue to push their agenda of hatrade, I still believe that ILLEGAL immigrants need to leave !!!

And I think Vicente Fox and the Mexican government need to majorily have an economic reconstruction, so that Mexicans do not have to immigrate to the U.S. illegally.
quote:
You are correct. I have been hearing a lot of studies saying that Latinos will outnumber whites, and racist are scared !

Along with the Latino population rising, Asians will finally go into the double digits and become 10% of the population in about ten years. Asians are now merely 2% of the population today. Racist are scared !!!

Although I believe that some people are using this immigration issue to push their agenda of hatrade, I still believe that ILLEGAL immigrants need to leave !!!

And I think Vicente Fox and the Mexican government need to majorily have an economic reconstruction, so that Mexicans do not have to immigrate to the U.S. illegally.


That was my reason for WHY now. If it's been going on for so long and EVERYONE knew why make such a big issue over it.

I agree with someone of the issues surrounding the immigration ...I just take issue with WHY some people are making an issue of it now.

quote:
We all have a cross to bear


Correct. We had/have ours and immigrants have theirs. But I just find it sad when people who have seen and been the victims of oppression, and yes maybe the Mexican American experience is not be the same as ours, seem to be a little forgetful what it's like to stuggle against powers that seek to hold you down.
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:

You are correct. I have been hearing a lot of studies saying that Latinos will outnumber whites, and racist are scared !

Along with the Latino population rising, Asians will finally go into the double digits and become 10% of the population in about ten years. Asians are now merely 2% of the population today. Racist are scared !!!

Although I believe that some people are using this immigration issue to push their agenda of hatrade, I still believe that ILLEGAL immigrants need to leave !!!

And I think Vicente Fox and the Mexican government need to majorily have an economic reconstruction, so that Mexicans do not have to immigrate to the U.S. illegally.

------------

That was my reason for WHY now. If it's been going on for so long and EVERYONE knew why make such a big issue over it.

--------------
How did you determine that it HASN'T been an issue with some folks before now? In my area, illegal immigration has been a bone of contention for years now. And it was a very big topic of discussion (not long ago) when it involved the issuance of a driver's license to illegal immigrants.

------------------------------

I agree with someone of the issues surrounding the immigration ...I just take issue with WHY some people are making an issue of it now.

-------------------

Hmmmmm....well, it's not a 'sudden' issue where I come from.

------------------

We all have a cross to bear

-------------------

Correct. We had/have ours and immigrants have theirs. But I just find it sad when people who have seen and been the victims of oppression, and yes maybe the Mexican American experience is not be the same as ours, seem to be a little forgetful what it's like to stuggle against powers that seek to hold you down.

----------------


"Maybe" the Mexican American experience is not the same as black folk?!? Hmmmm...interesting that you would put it that way.

Personally, I don't expect any MORE from illegal immigrants than I expect from myself or ANYONE. There are plenty of laws that I don't agree with but I abide by, nevertheless.

And it's because of the oppression endured by the black community; the 'black' struggle, that I feel the way I do---illegal immigrants are no better than MY people. Do it right! Black folks can't go around breaking the law, heck, when black folk are even SUSPECTED of doing so, they are dealt with harshly. Black ppl continue to endure an unjust justice system; racism, discrimination; among other things. What makes the plight of illegal immigrants more worthy of consideration....more worthy of ignoring immigration laws/policies or bypassing stricter ones?

It always amazes me how, whenever ANY group protests, they will usually compare their plight to "black folk"--take for example, gay rights.

Gays & Lesibans often compared their struggle/plight to that of the African-American. smh. But the truth is, black folks have a unique history...comparable to NONE in this country. IMHO.

That said. . .If this government sees fit to hand out "rights" to illegal immigrants...I want my damn reparations!!!!! I'll take them in the form of better schools & medical care for the black community. As far as I'm concerned this government needs to PAY UP NOW! They OWE the black community before they go making concessions to illegal immigrants.

Ahhh, but we don't always get what we want--and, imo, illegal immigrants should NOT be above the law.
quote:
Originally posted by UppityNegress:
By all accounts, this "day without a Mexican" seems to be a failure. In fact, lots of people are making jokes that they wish they could have a whole "year without a Mexican".


You can't really say "by all accounts" the protest was a failure, you really can only speak for your area. Also it depends on what you define as success and failure and what the leaders of the protest define as success themselves.
Illegal immigrants are an integral part of this nation's economy and that is not a good thing for America or American workers. I don't care where a person comes from, but if they want to be here it is important that they are bound by the laws of the land. There are processes that have been in place for a long time for people from every nation to become Americans and I am sick to death of people thinking that some crimes are okay but others are worthy of the death penalty. Round them up ... lock them up ... send them back and let them come back when they are willing to do the right thing. Learning to speak the language should be mandatory as well. When my beloved Brothers and Sisters are granted a level playing field in the country of our birth, perhaps I will give more than a dayum about people who are in this country illegally.
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
So you would think that would make us more understanding of other peoples struggles.

The only time you hear people making issues like this is when they feel they feel their power is being "threaten". This "immigration issue" has been going on for a long time now. If we have 11 million hear now that have been hear then whats the problem?

And when it was US struggling and protesting we may not have been considered "illegal" but we were still second class citizens and still are...

The only time you hear people making issues like this is when they feel their power is being "threaten".


MidLifeMan,

I don't see it so much as not having sympathy or not being able to understand their plight. Black folks have first hand knowledge of oppression, because we still live it everyday ... it's something else that has been going on for years and years and it's not over yet.

But, I also don't think it's right that we forget or become passive of our own fight and suffering while empathizing with a group of people who are also facing oppression by the same people that have their foot on our necks as well.

The (equal) rights of citizenship is one of our fights that we've been fighting since the document that made this country a country was signed. Unlike the immigrant (legal or not) that gets to choose to come here in search of a better life, we have a history of inhumane forced entry into these borders and are still today treated as if we don't belong here.

I don't think it's unreasonable for Black folks to take issue when the same gov't that tells us that we had/have to earn our right to equal citizenship and treatment under the law now offers millions of others blanket acceptance of those rights and treatment. I can understand that they've been here and have contributed to this country ... but I also understand that we built and have been contributing to this country for centuries and generations. I can understand and even want the Hispanics to get theres ... but I also want to have mine too!! First, even. And I think I can say I/we deserve and have earned at least that much.

As to why now? I would say probably because 1) as it has been happening for years and years, it's also been growing and growing all this time and now is a BIG problem that needed to be dealt with; and 2) the White folks (Republicans) did what they usually do and went and threw a stick at a hornet's nest ... and now they are getting stung all over the place ... as usual!! Formulating a workable immigration policy is one thing ... threatening to make being an illegal immigrant a felony is quite another! Eek When the sizeable backlash from that threatened them 1) financially and 2) through political influence; and 3) with the possibility of enough power to disrupt both, yes, I think they've become scared. And they probably need to be. There's not telling what it's going to be like if/when they take over. And a blanket amnesty policy would probably make that happen a lot quicker.

Perhaps we should be learning Spanish instead of trying to force them to learn English. Roll Eyes
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quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:

Personally, I don't expect any MORE from illegal immigrants than I expect from myself or ANYONE. There are plenty of laws that I don't agree with but I abide by, nevertheless.


If you accept law for the sake of law, then you must accept Afrcan Slavery for the sake of law. You must accept Jim Crow for the sake of law. And you must accept the Jewish Holocaust in Nazi Germany for the sake of law. And you must accept Nuclear Genocide for the sake of law.

Because all of these things were/are protected by law.

You can declare the Law as your God, but if you do so, consider what else it is you are required to worship.
Originally posted by ricardomath:
Originally posted by Fabulous:

Personally, I don't expect any MORE from illegal immigrants than I expect from myself or ANYONE. There are plenty of laws that I don't agree with but I abide by, nevertheless.

-----------------------

If you accept law for the sake of law, then you must accept Afrcan Slavery for the sake of law. You must accept Jim Crow for the sake of law. And you must accept the Jewish Holocaust in Nazi Germany for the sake of law. And you must accept Nuclear Genocide for the sake of law.

Because all of these things were/are protected by law.

You can declare the Law as your God, but if you do so, consider what else it is you are required to worship.

----------

First of all, let's be clear about something here, I SPEAK FOR MYSELF.

Don't presume you can put words in my mouth, and then twist them to suit YOUR agenda.

If you wanted a "for instance" then common courtesy would dictate that you ASK for it.

And, it's really quite simple. . . There ARE laws that I don't agree with, such as, the TICKET I received last month for rolling on a stop sign. Such as, the HIGH income taxes that I'm required to pay. Such as, the HIGH taxes on my house that I pay every damn 6 months. The HIGH insurance coverage on my cars & van. . . SUCH as the 3 strike law. . . You get my drift?

None of the above involves the cruel & inhumane treatment of another human being as demonstrated by the white man toward the slaves.

Slavery was INHUMANE--PERIOD!!! There's nothing, imo, INHUMANE about immigration laws--and immigration policies/laws are not exclusive of the U.S.

No matter HOW you slice it, it doesn't fit--ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION DOES NOT COMPARE to the plight of slaves...

Illegal immigrants are here by CHOICE, slaves were here by FORCE.

Now, you show me those immigrants who are OWNED like property (in the same way as the slaves were), lynched (in the same way that the slaves were), stripped from their homeland, families, culture, language, traditions (in the same way that the slaves were), and so on. . .

THEN, we can talk about accepting 'things' that are protected by the law. Until then, don't even 'think' you tell me what I must accept. . .as it relates to the tea in China.

Illegal immigration is just THAT--illegal. And if the BLACK MAN is required to abide by the law of the land, or he is kicked around, abused, harassed, jailed....or MURDERED. . .Then, as far as I'm concern ALL illegal immigrants should be shipped right back to where the hell they came from.
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quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:

Now, you show me those immigrants who are OWNED like property (in the same way as the slaves were), lynched (in the same way that the slaves were), stripped from their homeland, families, culture, language, traditions (in the same way that the slaves were), and so on. . .


You are full of shit.

My wife's anscestors were brought to America in the bottoms of the same God Damn slave ships as were your anscestors.

The fact that you are a gringo does not make you somehow superior to her, however much you may think so. Have you ever wondered where the expression "Ugly American" comes from?

The same law that you so revere was used to justify the enslavement of my wife's anscestors, so don't expect that to carry much weight with me.
Originally posted by ricardomath:
Originally posted by Fabulous:

Now, you show me those immigrants who are OWNED like property (in the same way as the slaves were), lynched (in the same way that the slaves were), stripped from their homeland, families, culture, language, traditions (in the same way that the slaves were), and so on. . .
-------------

You are full of shit.

---------------

And YOU smell of shit.

---------------

My wife's anscestors were brought to America in the bottoms of the same God Damn slave ships as were your anscestors.

The fact that you are a gringo does not make you somehow superior to her, however much you may think so. Have you ever wondered where the expression "Ugly American" comes from?

The same law that you so revere was used to justify the enslavement of my wife's anscestors, so don't expect that to carry much weight with me.

-------------
Allow me to enlightened you about something...I don't give a fock WHERE your wife came from. . .

If you don't like what I have to say, then stroll your tired ass on by. You wanna 'disrespect' by talking to me like a damn FOOL, well, you can kiss my dog's black a**, Jethro.

Your resolve on this issue, imo, is due to YOUR OWN SITUATION--pertaining to your wife's experience. Don't even try to fly that crap by me. . .

I feel the same way regarding the plight of MY PEOPLE, as you do about illegal immigrants. And as long as the po po keep killing my brothers, as long as there's no equality for black ppl..... .

You can take your illegal immigrant OPINION, and shove it far UP ....

you know the drill, I'm sure.

Btw...if this is all it takes for you to fly off the handle, I suggest anger management while I pity your poor wife. Hopefully, you don't resort to calling her a "N"...but I wouldn't be surprised if you did.
Originally posted by ricardomath:
Originally posted by Fabulous:

I feel the same way regarding the plight of MY PEOPLE, ...
----------

As near as I can tell, by "MY PEOPLE" you mean Clarence Thomas and Condoleeza Rice. That's your perogative.

Really...I don't have anything against right wing idiologues. You folks are good for amusement at times.

------

Near as you can tell, my foot. . .

Now, what did I tell you about tryna put words in my mouth? What did I tell you about ASKING when you want clarification. . .because your white ass Jethro self. . .does NOT speak for me, you got that?
A friend of mine commented on this whole issue earlier today. He said:

quote:
The category of illegal alien is an artificial construct bred out of the American eugenic tradition in the 20th century. Treating it as a transhistorical and immutable concept is just plain idiotic.


Let's not forget who the original "illegal immigrants" were: the Spaniards, the Portuguese, the French, the Dutch, the Flemmish (Belgians), and the British.



A better solution to this whole immigration dilemma would be to give the undocumented workers legal status and making employers pay a fair wage to them will in turn lower the incentive to hire immigrants and will naturally adjust immigration to much lower levels. The reason why Mexicans come is for jobs; if there are less jobs available, they won't be coming over in so many mass numbers.

Amnesty is a meager but necessary step in the right direction.

Again, Leftists have very good solutions, but they are not being discussed in mainstream debate because they run against the class interests of the rich and powerful ruling class in America. This would effectively lower the huge slave profits that bosses make off of immigrants. The only "solutions" that get discussed on immigration are the consevative one: stop immigration altogether and lock the border; and the liberal one: provide amnesty but guard the border to keep new ones from coming in (forget about raising the wages). Both of which serve corporate interests.
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
And, it's really quite simple. . . There ARE laws that I don't agree with, such as, the TICKET I received last month for rolling on a stop sign. Such as, the HIGH income taxes that I'm required to pay. Such as, the HIGH taxes on my house that I pay every damn 6 months. The HIGH insurance coverage on my cars & van. . . SUCH as the 3 strike law. . . You get my drift?

None of the above involves the cruel & inhumane treatment of another human being as demonstrated by the white man toward the slaves.

Slavery was INHUMANE--PERIOD!!! There's nothing, imo, INHUMANE about immigration laws--and immigration policies/laws are not exclusive of the U.S.

No matter HOW you slice it, it doesn't fit--ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION DOES NOT COMPARE to the plight of slaves...

Illegal immigrants are here by CHOICE, slaves were here by FORCE.


quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
Again, Leftists have very good solutions, but they are not being discussed in mainstream debate because they run against the class interests of the rich and powerful ruling class in America. This would effectively lower the huge slave profits that bosses make off of immigrants. The only "solutions" that get discussed on immigration are the consevative one: stop immigration altogether and lock the border; and the liberal one: provide amnesty but guard the border to keep new ones from coming in (forget about raising the wages). Both of which serve corporate interests.


tfro tfro

In the half a dozen or so stories I read on the economic impact of yesterday's boycott, and on what would happen if Mexicans were not here to do those jobs, nowhere did I read of the comparison on the effect on the economy if corporations were forced to pay a living wage for those jobs which would then make them the kinds of jobs that Americans (especially lower-income Black and poor Americans) could and would do ... especially when you got a double-digit unemployment rate in this country.

It also astounded me how all of a sudden the words legal/illegal stopped "making a difference" in this society when we've got a million Black men languishing in jail for doing "illegal" stuff. Confused
quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
Maybe they can use this boycott as a stepping stone. To make a real impact on the American economy, Hispanic immigrants are going to have to make much longer boycotts. Probably anywhere from several weeks to several months.


Permanently? When those billions from saved healthcare, social, and educational expenentures roll in, we'll sure be feeling their effects. Why don't they take a permanent boycott--that'll show us!

On another note, people love to insist that if we got rid of a good number of illegal immigrants, then prices for produce and services would soar. The most obvious problem with that is that is they are given amnesty and become citizens, the first thing they'll do is demand an increase in wages. Since they supposedly work for money no American wants, as soon as they are Americans the wages will be the same had we expelled a good number of them and created a labor shortage. So the only difference between immigration reform with deportations, and amnesty, is that with amnesty we'd still have to pay for their medical and educational upkeep (medical alone totals billions per year), but they'd also be eligible to bring family members over here legally...more people to feed, educated, and medicate.

Putting the crack down on businesses and employers who hire illegal immigrants for meager wages would definitely go a long way, but in that case we'd still have thousand (millions?) of people who are now poorly educated, low-skilled, and don't speak the langauge, with nothing and nowhere to go. That's just asking for more crime and overrun hospitals. Laying it down hard on the corporations/businesses/individuals who keep hiring them is the first step, but then we need to repatriate many these people.
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Originally posted by Fabulous:

And, it's really quite simple. . . There ARE laws that I don't agree with, such as, the TICKET I received last month for rolling on a stop sign. Such as, the HIGH income taxes that I'm required to pay. Such as, the HIGH taxes on my house that I pay every damn 6 months. The HIGH insurance coverage on my cars & van. . . SUCH as the 3 strike law. . . You get my drift?

None of the above involves the cruel & inhumane treatment of another human being as demonstrated by the white man toward the slaves.

Slavery was INHUMANE--PERIOD!!! There's nothing, imo, INHUMANE about immigration laws--and immigration policies/laws are not exclusive of the U.S.

No matter HOW you slice it, it doesn't fit--ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION DOES NOT COMPARE to the plight of slaves...

Illegal immigrants are here by CHOICE, slaves were here by FORCE.

--------------------

Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
Again, Leftists have very good solutions, but they are not being discussed in mainstream debate because they run against the class interests of the rich and powerful ruling class in America. This would effectively lower the huge slave profits that bosses make off of immigrants. The only "solutions" that get discussed on immigration are the consevative one: stop immigration altogether and lock the border; and the liberal one: provide amnesty but guard the border to keep new ones from coming in (forget about raising the wages). Both of which serve corporate interests.

----------------

tfro tfro

In the half a dozen or so stories I read on the economic impact of yesterday's boycott, and on what would happen if Mexicans were not here to do those jobs, nowhere did I read of the comparison on the effect on the economy if corporations were forced to pay a living wage for those jobs which would then make them the kinds of jobs that Americans (especially lower-income Black and poor Americans) could and would do ... especially when you got a double-digit unemployment rate in this country.

It also astounded me how all of a sudden the words legal/illegal stopped "making a difference" in this society when we've got a million Black men languishing in jail for doing "illegal" stuff. Confused

--------------

{fab jumps out of her seat}

{CLAPPING LOUDLY}

{Two finger whistle}

Tell it sister!!!!!!!! cabbage

{clap} {clap} {clap} {clap} {clap} {clap}

Very eloquently stated, Ebonyrose. You go girl. Smile Your above statement is exactly what I'm talking about. . .and I couldn't have said it better, had you given me instructions.

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!

^5

Black brothers & sisters can't even get a break on a traffic stop...but illegals can protest for "rights"?!? Also, your reference to "brothers in jail for 'illegal' stuff," is right on the money. Something is very wrong with this let's give "rights" to illegal immigrants scenario....imho.

Excellent post, EbonyRose. And I agree with you wholeheartedly. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by UppityNegress:

Putting the crack down on businesses and employers who hire illegal immigrants for meager wages would definitely go a long way, but in that case we'd still have thousand (millions?) of people who are now poorly educated, low-skilled, and don't speak the langauge, with nothing and nowhere to go. That's just asking for more crime and overrun hospitals. Laying it down hard on the corporations/businesses/individuals who keep hiring them is the first step, but then we need to repatriate many these people.



quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose

In the half a dozen or so stories I read on the economic impact of yesterday's boycott, and on what would happen if Mexicans were not here to do those jobs, nowhere did I read of the comparison on the effect on the economy if corporations were forced to pay a living wage for those jobs which would then make them the kinds of jobs that Americans (especially lower-income Black and poor Americans) could and would do ... especially when you got a double-digit unemployment rate in this country.



Excellent points....... tfro
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:

Personally, I don't expect any MORE from illegal immigrants than I expect from myself or ANYONE. There are plenty of laws that I don't agree with but I abide by, nevertheless.


If you accept law for the sake of law, then you must accept Afrcan Slavery for the sake of law. You must accept Jim Crow for the sake of law. And you must accept the Jewish Holocaust in Nazi Germany for the sake of law. And you must accept Nuclear Genocide for the sake of law.

Because all of these things were/are protected by law.

You can declare the Law as your God, but if you do so, consider what else it is you are required to worship.



Hmmm.... When you start comparing slavery and genocide to immigrants who have not gone through the proper procedure of becoming a legal citizen, you lose all credibility.

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