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Our old friend America dropping by reminded me of a question. You know that hillbilly song that came out - I think - around the time of the Gulf War with the refrain - "I'm proud to be an American"? Well, I've always thought about this particular line:

"I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free."

Especially for the folks that revere this song, in what way, precisely, are they "free"? They're free to drop out of high school to go to work. They're free to live in a trailer park. They're free to work at a coal mine. They're free to chain smoke cigarettes until they get lung cancer. They're free to drink beer and play quarters every Friday for 50 years until they die. They're free to drive a 1974 Pinto. They're free to eat canned ravioli every other night for dinner and McDonalds and Coke (supersized) for lunch every day. They're free to rot their teeth out by the time they're 45. They're free to have sex with their cousin in the ultra wide next door.

In what way, exactly, are they "free"? Confused

© MBM

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That song is for delude people that are proud of being deluded.

This is where America was and where it is headed again. We have blown it over the last 60 years.

16 Tons Lyrics
Tennesee Ernie Ford

Some people say a man is made outta' mud
A poor man's made outta' muscle and blood
Muscle and blood and skin and bones
A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong

You load sixteen tons, what do ya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine
I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine
I loaded sixteen tons of number 9 coal
And the store boss said "Well, a-bless my soul"

You load sixteen tons, what do ya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain
Fightin' and trouble are my middle name
I was raised in the canebrake by an ol' mama lion
Cain't no-a high-toned woman make me walk the line

You load sixteen tons, what do ya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

If you see me comin', better step aside
A lotta men didn't, a lotta men died
One fist of iron, the other of steel
If the right one don't getcha, then the left one will

You load sixteen tons, what do ya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store.

We are free to owe our sould to the company store.

umbra
The song is by Lee Greenwood, lovely Southern Baptist man. Surely, there are plenty of "freedoms" to be thankful for in this country. That we can even have these conversations on a public forum is something great. No one is completely free to do anything they want, anytime they want, but we have enough flexibility in this country to at least be a bit grateful. sck
quote:
Our old friend America dropping by reminded me of a question. You know that hillbilly song that came out - I think - around the time of the Gulf War with the refrain - "I'm proud to be an American"? Well, I've always thought about this particular line:


You have to ask what we/they/us/you/I think freedom really is? From OUR prospective we live under the illusion of freedom.

This song represents my new found definition of freedom and the definition that is used by White men:

"You are only as free as your ability to MAINTIAN and PROTECT your freedom. If you can't do this then you are not truley free."

Which is why they are big on the "right to bare arms".

That is why 9/11 was such a jolt to their system. They KNEW they couldn't be touched.

But they KNOW they have the power (militarily) to make things right in the world....and they ARE working on it.
Last edited {1}
1 - I don't think it's a "hillbilly" song.

2 - MBM's initial post is basically just an opportunity for him to trot out these Southern stereotypes and mock these people in a "what do these backwards yokels who listen to this kind of music have to be happy about?" kind of way. And I think that's crap. I said already that none of us are completely, 100% free. But certainly Southerners are under no more delusions than their northern counterparts, who are free to suck in all the smog from their gas-guzzling SUVs, free to spend five grand on a shoebox apartment, free to eat overpriced French food made by a pair of Mexicans in the back kitchen, etc.

The question was in what way are they free, and my answer is in the same damn way that the rest of us are "free."
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:

2 - MBM's initial post is basically just an opportunity for him to trot out these Southern stereotypes and mock these people in a "what do these backwards yokels who listen to this kind of music have to be happy about?" kind of way. And I think that's crap. I said already that none of us are completely, 100% free. But certainly Southerners are under no more delusions than their northern counterparts, who are free to suck in all the smog from their gas-guzzling SUVs, free to spend five grand on a shoebox apartment, free to eat overpriced French food made by a pair of Mexicans in the back kitchen, etc.

The question was in what way are they free, and my answer is in the same damn way that the rest of us are "free."


Frenchy - I'm really sorry the point of the thread was lost on you.

It has NOTHING to do with "southerners" or any other stereotype that you may be sensitive to. It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that here in America we are sold a bill of goods by our government and by the wealthy. To make a very long story short, we are told that we are "free", but in what way are we so? This is particularly the case for people who are poor and working class - who, basically, all they can do is struggle to put food on the table and pay the cable bill. My post had nothing to do with maligning the poor and working class folks' experience in any way. It had EVERYTHING to do with attacking the system of economic and social exploitation that capitalism and our peculiar brand of democracy bring.

I have never, and would never, attack people in the way that you suggest! sck

This country was founded on words like "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal, and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights - among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". This when the ONLY full-fledged citizens in this nation were wealthy white men. It is the extrapolation of this extraordinary hypocrisy that was at the root of my post. We can sing all day long about how free we are, but that's about all we can do.

Sorry that point wasn't communicated better! sck
Don't give me that Babe-in-the-Woods routine! Trailer parks? Sex with family members? Folks who revere "hillbilly" songs? Those things scream Southerners.

In any event, I did read what you said and I responded to it directly in both my original post and my last post.

quote:
No one is completely free to do anything they want, anytime they want, but we have enough flexibility in this country to at least be a bit grateful.


quote:
The question was in what way are they free, and my answer is in the same damn way that the rest of us are "free."


I'm not going to address the insults.
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
It's a country song that resonates with people who are patriotic.
Frenchy, there are country music fans and musicians, no doubt, who are Anti-War. There are, I'm sure, plenty of patriotic people whom the song doesn't resonate with both because of the genre and the way the song is written. The themes in it resonate with certain people.

I'm sure there are plenty of Black people who are "patriotic" who just can't get with the way the song is communicated. They could remix it, put in their preferred musical genres and the words just won't resonate.

Those things are ALL due to the American MYTHS that resonate with those country music lovin' folk.

Also, our friend AMERICA stopped by and had more than just stereotypes to impart. Yet, for some reason the Frenchy Patrol failed to do anything but make Post Traffic Stops that indicate a certain type of profiling indicative of an inconsistent policy of outrage.

It's not that hard to be consistent Frenchy. If you're going to work the "Stereotype Patrol" and bemoan the way people are depicted then let's see a bit more consistency.

So, when MBM is stereotyping. Cool. Point it out. However, when someone else is referencing stereotypes, etc. in discussions with MBM et al then let's see you arrest those stereotypers with equal vigor. I'd appreciate it.

Either that or say exactly what it is that's driving your issues. It's clearly ain't all about the "stereotypes."
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
Frenchy, there are country music fans and musicians, no doubt, who are Anti-War. There are, I'm sure, plenty of patriotic people whom the song doesn't resonate with both because of the genre and the way the song is written. The themes in it resonate with certain people.

I'm sure there are plenty of Black people who are "patriotic" who just can't get with the way the song is communicated. They could remix it, put in their preferred musical genres and the words just won't resonate.

Those things are ALL due to the American MYTHS that resonate with those country music lovin' folk.


Nmaginate, what are you talking about? I did not say that everyone who likes country music likes this song and I did not say that every patriot likes this song. Clearly, whether or not someone likes a particular piece of music is dependent on a lot of different variables. You asked me for the genre of the song and who it would resonate with.

quote:
Also, our friend AMERICA stopped by and had more than just stereotypes to impart. Yet, for some reason the Frenchy Patrol failed to do anything but make Post Traffic Stops that indicate a certain type of profiling indicative of an inconsistent policy of outrage.


I don't respond to obvious trolls. I think it's a huge waste of time. Furthermore, I'm not running any one-woman smackdown patrol.

quote:
It's not that hard to be consistent Frenchy. If you're going to work the "Stereotype Patrol" and bemoan the way people are depicted then let's see a bit more consistency.


I contribute where and when I please. I'm satisfied with my participation in this community.

quote:
So, when MBM is stereotyping. Cool. Point it out. However, when someone else is referencing stereotypes, etc. in discussions with MBM et al then let's see you arrest those stereotypers with equal vigor. I'd appreciate it.


I appreciate that that's what you'd appreciate. Cool However, I'm not MBM's or anyone else's shadow. I'm not in every thread that you guys are in. I'm not affected by or offended by everything that you guys are, either. I respond when I am moved to do so.

quote:
Either that or say exactly what it is that's driving your issues. It's clearly ain't all about the "stereotypes."

It actually is. There's an elitism behind it that disturbs me and IMO clouds the issue.
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:

quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
As usual Frenchy - you see things the way your biases command you to see them, and then refuse to read anything further.


That is completely untrue. hit sad


You characterized my comments incorrectly. I explain them. And then you reflexively reiterate your initial comment. Confused sad

First, why would I lie about my perspective?

Second, why are you apparently immune to clarification?

Furthermore, you keep coming back to this "southerner" thing. Do you think the only people who do the things listed in the initial post are in the south? Really? Confused

Again, it seems that you have a sensitivity to being from the south and anything that even remotely can be fit into the 'maligning southerners' box stimulates that insecurity.

Sorry - didn't go there. nono

Also - read the initial post again. I think you'll see that it has everything to do with the extraordinarily narrow band within which poor and working class folks have "freedom". The behaviors listed may make you uncomfortable, but they are incidental to the primary point of the post.
quote:
I'm not MBM's or anyone else's shadow. I'm not in every thread that you guys are in. I'm not affected by or offended by everything that you guys are, either...
And that's exactly what I'm talking about. You don't get all spazzy over all stereotypes and other such things in threads where you are present, trolls or not.

So what makes it worth your time to point out "stereotypes" to MBM or the select group of those you do while not doing it to others?

Now, our friend AMERICA was the impetus for this thread. Indeed, MBM tailored his post, even stereotypically, in his honor to some extent, it would seem. But since you feel it's a waste of time to respond to trolls? Why are you responding in such a way to this thread which is, at least in part, a response to said troll?

quote:
I respond when I am moved to do so.
Yes, that's the crux of it. What moved you here? What offended you here? Why were you offended by something that was more or less a response to a troll? I mean, I hesistate to think that you have some affection for trolls but you do seem to have this thing for wanting to call the dogs off of trolls and other people who use plenty of stereotypes, etc. when they register their views.

quote:
It actually is. There's an elitism behind it that disturbs me and IMO clouds the issue.
HUH?? Elitism, present or not, indicates more than just the "stereotype."

So, yes... It's about the Elitism you perceive which goes above and beyond the stereotype. "Hillybillies" and "rednecks" use the same stereotypes in jokes, etc. - i.e. in non-elitist ways. So it's not all about the stereotype - if "elitism" is the very thing that's driving your issues here.

I don't know why it would take this many posts and so many questions for that to come out. How come you couldn't say that upfront?
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
You characterized my comments incorrectly. I explain them. And then you reflexively reiterate your initial comment. Confused sad


Because your explanation did nothing to assuage my concerns. Otherwise I clearly would not raise them again and specify exactly what I found troublesome.

quote:
First, why would I lie about my perspective?

  • Because you didn't expect to be challenged on that particular point
  • Because you feel embarassed by your intial remarks

    Who knows?!? It's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility for you to lie about something or backpedal or any other human response. What are you, the Pope? Confused

    quote:
    Furthermore, you keep coming back to this "southerner" thing. Do you think the only people who do the things listed in the initial post are in the south? Really? Confused


    First, I don't "keep coming back to it." You keep asking me about it. There is no way that I am the only person who immediately thought of Southern stereotypes when reading that. Just no way. Perhaps where you live, they routinely refer to Northerners as living in trailer parks and fucking their sisters and listening to hillbilly music and whatever else, but that is not at all a typical experience. It's just not and I remain astounded that you keep pushing that angle as if it's the most absurd thing you've ever heard. If you've never heard of those as Southern stereotypes then we will never see eye-to-eye on this point because I believe that to be common knowledge for anyone who's lived in this country and owns a television. We just will not come to any understanding on this point. What you are saying sounds completely and ridiculously absurd to me and the feeling is apparently mutual. C'est la vie.

    quote:
    The behaviors listed may make you uncomfortable, but they are incidental to the primary point of the post.

    I've responded to that twice now and the only reason why we're still talking about it is because I'm responding to your questions, babe. kiss
  • quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate:
    And that's exactly what I'm talking about. You don't get all spazzy over all stereotypes and other such things in threads where you are present, trolls or not.


    Nmaginate, either PM me or start a thread with some specifics or get off my back. I don't know what you are talking about. You're making it sound like I post side-by-side with the klan without saying a word and then jump all over MBM. Confused Lordy!

    I am FIRMLY and BELLIGERENTLY against these ridiculous stereotypes.

    Please apply that to all the threads I apparently missed. Let me find out my words have clout around here. Big Grin

    quote:
    So what makes it worth your time to point out "stereotypes" to MBM or the select group of those you do while not doing it to others?


    I do it where I see it.

    quote:
    But since you feel it's a waste of time to respond to trolls? Why are you responding in such a way to this thread which is, at least in part, a response to said troll?


    I did not and do not consider this a response to that troll. He jogged MBM's original thought ("Our old friend America dropping by reminded me of a question."), but I didn't consider this a response to that post.

    quote:
    I mean, I hesistate to think that you have some affection for trolls but you do seem to have this thing for wanting to call the dogs off of trolls and other people who use plenty of stereotypes, etc. when they register their views.


    I don't know what you mean by this. It sounds like you're insinuating that I'm somehow sticking up for that troll by posting in this thread. I don't know that guy from a hole in the ground and I couldn't care less about whether his opinions are heard.

    quote:
    HUH?? Elitism, present or not, indicates more than just the "stereotype."

    ...

    I don't know why it would take this many posts and so many questions for that to come out. How come you couldn't say that upfront?


    Oh man. The stereotypes in and of themselves bother me. This elitist way of looking down on people and using the stereotypes as justification for it also bothers me. That is what I am saying.

    Moving right along....
    quote:
    You're making it sound like I post side-by-side with the klan without saying a word and then jump all over MBM.
    Frenchy, for one there is nothing particularly "Southern" about trailer parks, coal mines and incest. I'm from the rural Midwest and those "stereotypes" fit. And, no, I've said nothing about you posting side-by-side with the Klan. sck

    So, now, I guess I should say I'm firmly against your ridiculous outrage calling the "stereotype" Southern when it applicable in place in and beyond the South.

    quote:
    I do it where I see it.
    BULLSHIT!!! And it's even more BS considering how your assumption about the said "stereotype" is ridiculously untenable. I certainly know I didn't associate or would have characterized the "stereotype" as depicting Southerners and Southerners only, as I have noted. So, obviously, the problem lies in your perceptions, insecurities and sensibilities as much as they do in any said "stereotype."

    quote:
    It sounds like you're insinuating that I'm somehow sticking up for that troll by posting in this thread.
    No insinuation. I meant what I said: You seem to have a thing for wanting to call the dogs off of trolls and OTHER PEOPLE who use plenty of stereotypes, etc. when they register their views.

    Case In Point... NativeAlien. Hardly a "troll" per se and definitely not the klan. But you definitely wasn't spazzin' over his use of stereotypes. As I recall you were all love, patience and Teach Them. A very different approach even in the face of blatant stereotypes and such by NativeAlien.

    You definitely wasn't all "FIRMLY and BELLIGERENTLY against the ridiculous stereotypes he employed. That's my point. It's a recognizable pattern.
    quote:
    Oh man. The stereotypes in and of themselves bother me.
    BULLSHIT, Frenchy.

    I'm sure there are plenty of Black SOUTHERNERS who are just as dirt poor as some of the trailer park, flag waving White "Southerners" who hold these "stereotypes" about their fellow White Southerners. There is nothing inherently "elitist" about the "stereotype" just as there is nothing inherently or tenably Southern about it.

    Now, move right along to adjusting your misguided view that are applying your Firm and Beligerent disdain for stereotypes more consistently.
    quote:
    Surely, there are plenty of "freedoms" to be thankful for in this country. That we can even have these conversations on a public forum is something great. No one is completely free to do anything they want, anytime they want, but we have enough flexibility in this country to at least be a bit grateful.
    Surely, when you made you first post saying that, it had nothing to do with stereotypes of Southerners and the Elitism(s) you say in it.

    Now, how come that theme of being "GRATEFUL" hasn't been consistent throughout your posts in this thread, Frenchy?

    I guess if it wasn't one thing... you can just shift to another, huh?? sck

    Now what was all of that about?
    Yep!! What was up with that "BE GRATEFUL" shit? sck
    You asked me what bothered me and I responded. It was not a response to what MBM asked re: what freedoms these people could possibly have. I addressed that particular point numerous times already.

    I did not have a problem with NativeAlien's remarks about white people in general. Didn't find them offensive. Didn't find them condescending or elitist.

    Furthermore, I don't need your guidance on how to word my posts or where and when to speak. If something bothers me, then I'm going to say so. Interpret that as you like.
    quote:
    I did not have a problem with NativeAlien's remarks about white people in general. Didn't find them offensive. Didn't find them condescending or elitist.
    Frenchy, the issue is over STEREOTYPES. You said you are firmly and belligerently against ridiculous stereotypes. You said nothing about where you find them personally offensive. You tried to play that role that you're against [ALL] stereotypes. Nary a qualification given and nothing that said it was contingent on what you personally find offensive.

    And ummm... NativeAlien's registered stereotypes about more than Whites, if he really even registered any of those (you can point them out if you like). And, I dare say some of those non-White stereotypes were pretty damn condescending. But, as I've made clear, I don't recall any qualification for the stereotypes you claimed you were against save those that were "ridiculous". And there are plenty of ridiculous stereotypes that exist outside of those that tend to be best characterized as "condescending" or "elitist". And there are untold stereotypes that exist outside of what you may personally be offended by.

    quote:
    You asked me what bothered me and I responded.
    There obviously was something there that was bothering you when you said that "Be Grateful" shit. For sure, that wasn't about Elitist or "condescending" attitudes. That was, for all intents and purposes, some "patriotic" shit you were on or something. That's how you started your spazz here. So that defies and betrays all this BS about condescending/elistist stereotypes being what "bothered" you.

    You wanted to throw a hissy. You threw a hissy over that "patriotic" BS and your particularly odd view of what was, ONLY IN YOUR VIEW, a "Southern" stereotype.

    quote:
    Furthermore, I don't need your guidance on how to word my posts or where and when to speak. If something bothers me, then I'm going to say so. Interpret that as you like.
    And the same applies doubly for you.

    You want to register your Coming Out Of All Directions opinions as a way to "guide" MBM, e.g., away from making stereotypes about "Southerners". (One could argue that since you shifted your focus - from "patriotic" to "stereotypes" - that you have really been contrarian here; finding anything to disagreeable to disagree with.)

    Also, it bothers me that you are so inconsistent with your Firm & Belligerent outrage. So what's your problem with that? Only you get to talk about what bothers you?

    Sorry, it's just not going to work that way. Either way, please try to be more consistent - with your outrage spazzes and with what you want to complain about.
    quote:
    FRENCHY SAID:

    NativeAlien, all arguing aside, I think Nate posed a very valid question. You stated that in order for you to be persuaded otherwise, you'd like to hear something more substantial and unemotional than a "they benefited, now [it's] our turn" argument. You seem to be drawing some paralell between the way white people benefitted from slave labor and how Black people will benefit from reparations.

    Where were the stereotype(s) about White people there Frenchy?

    quote:
    I did not have a problem with NativeAlien's remarks about white people...
    At least try to be honest with your attempted dismissals.

      ____
    hij

    That passage is not what I was referring to. Nice of you to arbitrarily pick a random passage and launch into accusations. I'm taking about the "politicians, bobby jo in middle america, NASCAR folks" remark that you linked to.

    Unlike you, I've never at any point told anyone else what they should post. I don't agree with what MBM said and expressed why.

    The "firmly and belligerently" remark was tongue-in-cheek. Which is not to say that I havve no problem with stereotypes, before you start barking down my back on some next shit. When I first addressed you, I told you that I respond to anything that I feel compelled to:

    quote:
    I'm not in every thread that you guys are in. I'm not affected by or offended by everything that you guys are, either. I respond when I am moved to do so. -Frenchy 2/2/06, 8:04PM


    YOUR crazy ass is the one who started asking me about song genres and who songs resonate with, which is how we got onto patriotism. This entire conversation is fucking insane! laugh

    I'm done.
    quote:
    That passage is not what I was referring to. Nice of you to arbitrarily pick a random passage and launch into accusations. I'm taking about the "politicians, bobby jo in middle america, NASCAR folks" remark that you linked to.
    I linked to the thread. PERIOD.

    The whole point of the thread had everything to do with his statement I just hypelinked above. A statement that is right at the top of that page 3 without mention of NASCAR folks.

    LEARN HOW TO FOLLOW ALONG...
  • You seem to have a thing for wanting to call the dogs off of trolls and OTHER PEOPLE who use plenty of stereotypes, etc. when they register their views.

  • As I recall you were all love, patience and Teach Them. A very different approach even in the face of blatant stereotypes and such by NativeAlien.


    Ummm... When did I have something to say to NativeAlien about his supposed stereotypes (politicians, bobby jo in middle america, NASCAR folks) about Whites? When did you encourage me to teach him something about Whites?

    C'mon, Frenchy...

    quote:
    YOUR crazy ass is the one who started asking me about song genres...
    Ummm... I asked you what was up with your spazzin' ass when you said that Be Grateful BS. That's clear. I asked you that, all premised on you talking about "Being Grateful" before you had anything about how you disagreed with the characterization of the song.

    Get your shit straight.

    quote:
    Posted October 17, 2005 07:20 PM
    James -- I hear what your saying. If my dad passed away tomorrow I would expect to pick up the check he earned for the month...
    That's the beginning of the post I get when I click the "NativeAlien" link. Note there is nothing in that post about NASCAR, etc., etc.

    Again, at least be honest... And learn how to follow along.

    quote:
    Unlike you, I've never at any point told anyone else what they should post.
    sleep When and where has anything I've said to you been of the "What You Should Post" variety as opposed to me speaking about what bothers me about your inconsistent and curious outrage and selective contrarian ass displays?

    Why did you try to act like I was doing anything other than what you claim you're doing by registering your views about what bothered you? Instead you chose to try to characterize me commenting on what you had to say as "guidance on how to word my posts or where and when to speak."

    In a word or two: SORRY and WEAK.

    Being the apt monitor of what I say to other people about "what they should post"... You would be well acquainted with how I have no problems saying STFU! So, given that I haven't said that to you... you can just cut with the fake shit.

    FOLLOW ALONG, Frenchy...
  • You seem to have a thing for wanting to call the dogs off of trolls and OTHER PEOPLE who use plenty of stereotypes, etc. when they register their views.

  • As I recall you were all love, patience and Teach Them. A very different approach even in the face of blatant stereotypes and such by NativeAlien.

    Now, you were preaching love, patience and TEACH on that thread when it came to NativeAlien about what, Frenchy?
  • oooh... oooh.... {raises hand}

    I found something to be 'grateful' for...

    I'm grateful for America being an African America. We provide the trends, the entertainment, the culture, even the basis of what is called civilization is African. We are the true progenitors, and ambassadors of what is called an American culture. I'm proud of how we are MINORITIES, that represent so much of what's AMERICAN. The 'hick' culture is hardly emulated by anyone abroad. As a matter of fact they hide in seclusion and worship General Lee, and a lost war, under the 'rebel' flag. sad... sad...

    They say the culture is white-washed, but all I see is whites trying to sprinkle a little color in everything they do. Who can blame them... Color is beautiful. Black is beautiful.
    I guess that's why it's so hard to grasp a 'Black' Identity. It is forever evolving. Forever shaping and shifting culture. Meanwhile some of us (Americans) are stuck in 1865. WE are the evolution of America...

    Now that I've taken MBM's discussion way out of context, stay tuned for your regularly scheduled programming...
    I gather the point of MBM's post, on a basic level, is that people who revere that song have bought into this idea that they're so much better off in America, when in reality most of them live pretty crappy lives, with little to show for all of the opportunity they believe they have. Indeed, it's hard to argue that many of the so-called "rednecks" (southern or not, Frenchy/Nate, the stereotypes are of rednecks) who love that song are doing better than the average person from most of the European countries that their ancestors came here from.

    My stance is that it's a simplistic song for extremely simple minds. If you look up the lyrics, it really doesn't even say anything. It doesn't say what we're free to do, or anything else of any substance. That is exactly why these people love that song. No substantive meaning, for folks who engage in no critical thought about anything.


    That much also shows in who they vote for. Frenchy is right, MBM, that your post was laced with what she probably means to refer to as redneck stereotypes. Probably it wouldn't be so bad if you'd left out the reference to sexing their cousins, because that doesn't have anything to do with the point I think you were trying to make. A truly free, affluent people could still choose to screw their cousins, so there was nothing there but an unnecessary, blatant stereotypical insult. But I can understand where that comes from if it's coming out of anger, because I've honestly lost whatever respect I may ever have had for them because of the way they blindly support this president. We once were enslaved by their laws and greed. Now we're still shackled, in a way, to wrongheaded policies and national direction, because of their rank stupidity and feeblemindedness when it comes to who they vote for.
    The first time I heard the song was during Desert Shield/Storm and b/c of the emotions I was going through at the the time the song really stood out. I have heard the song on numerous occasions and my mind usually reflects on that time period, OIF or other events.
    As Vox said the song really is simple but it still does get to me. I have never really listened to the words as I didn't try to reflect on any underlying meanings.


    catch
    MBM,

    You did use the redneck stereotype, and more power to you. Judging by the posts defending this 'ilk,' some of us must not have too much contact with these crackers on a daily basis. I'm all for defending the working poor reguardless of race, but these rednecks have NO LOVE for us(they could care less about class struggle). EVERY time I see rednecks they have a confederate/rebel flag/insignia somewhere, and therefore all class based solidarity goes out the window. BTW, I live in Texas.

    The song sucks.

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