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quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
I consider all people of african decent African even if they dont. But where did i not say i would support the upliftment of all African people around the world? I think your putting words in my mouth for some reason?



Africans, Haitians, and Afrolatinos are marching along side Asians and other Latinos in demanding Immigration Justice.

http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/79160213/m/7701086093

Don't expect the media to focus on it, though.

Do you stand with them or against them?
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
I consider all people of african decent African even if they dont. But where did i not say i would support the upliftment of all African people around the world? I think your putting words in my mouth for some reason?



Africans, Haitians, and Afrolatinos are marching along side Asians and other Latinos in demanding Immigration Justice.

http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/79160213/m/7701086093

Don't expect the media to focus on it, though.

Do you stand with them or against them?


As a Pan-Minorityist, I'd even go as far to say that we should also march with Whites sympathetic to our cause.
The bottom line is that illegal immigration; defined as entering this country by subverting the laws set in place to regulate immigration, is wrong. I can see if people were being oppressed and came over as refugees. There are laws governing this.
I wonder what the laws are in other countries regarding people who come into a nation outside of legal chanels?
Multinational corporations who want cheap labor and various governments are in cohorts to make a ton of money. The affect of this is the displacement of people who want to work say starter jobs and the breakdown of unions. If the laws regarding the hiring of people who are illegally in the U.S. were to be enforced, it will be the small businesses who would largely be affected. Those who can't move their businesses and operations offshore.

And on this question of uniting with latinos, I will just say this: "There can be no [black-latino unity or] black-white unity until there is some black unity." -Malcolm X

That's my piece....
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
yeah lets look at the percentage of Africans who are allowed in compared to everyone else. I see what you doing white guy


I guess that it would be too much to expect for you to give a straight answer as to whether you would be willing to consider a black black alliance with Africans, Haitians, and Afrolatinos struggling and marching for immigration justice.

bang

Oh, well...

giveup
all the africans from all of over the world make up probably 5% of all the immigrants in this country. Plus we are talking about people comming here illegally not fleeing oppression but simply to get a head. Of course i support my people from where ever they are from. I just want my people to get treated the same way everyone else who immigrates to this country gets treated. How many haitians are allowed to just walk across the borders they are stopped in the water and turned around with no provisions, these cats coming across the border got people giving the provisions and everything. So sure if legal immmigration is fair across the board for all people i am with it.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:

2) Perhaps because so many of them cross the border illegally to get here. sck


Out of curiosity, why do you think there are so many Mexican immigrants in the U.S.? Why haven't more gone to, say, Venezuela or further South into South America where there wouldn't be such an large language barrier to contend with?


Because an open borders policy is necessary for the corrupt criminals running Mexico's gov't to stay in power:

That's why the gov't south of the border always will oppose any attempt at 1) border security 2) enforcement of illegal immigration laws particularly criminals and business owners hiring and 3) Whatever is to be done about the 12 million here.

Basically if a pipe breaks in your house do you first Shut off the water (border security) or do you first start mopping up the floor.

Since everyone in Congress says they really want border security but can't get a bill thru Congress that does just that: It'll probably be another amnesty and no border security in reality just like 1986

Same argument Same problem and probably same thing will occur unless pressure is put on both Democrats and Republicans.

There are days when I think you could pick 535 people at random and they couldn't screw up more then the current Congressional Aristocracy.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
all the africans from all of over the world make up probably 5% of all the immigrants in this country. Plus we are talking about people comming here illegally not fleeing oppression but simply to get a head. Of course i support my people from where ever they are from. I just want my people to get treated the same way everyone else who immigrates to this country gets treated. How many haitians are allowed to just walk across the borders they are stopped in the water and turned around with no provisions, these cats coming across the border got people giving the provisions and everything. So sure if legal immmigration is fair across the board for all people i am with it.
you know the answer too dark of shade of brown. lol
U.S. Immigration Bill Could Hurt Mexicans
By MARK STEVENSON


MEXICO CITY (AP) - A proposal in Congress to legalize millions of undocumented migrants in the United States could backfire by slashing the amount of money they send home, Mexican economists warn.

The argument goes like this: Mexicans who have permission to work in the United States will want to bring their families north to live with them, eliminating the main reason they send money home. That would hurt Mexican businesses that have come to depend on the money sent down from the United States.

Miguel Cervantes Jimenez, an economist at Mexico's National Autonomous University, said remittances could drop by as much as 40 percent.

He based his calculation in part on the situation in Turkey, where he said half the remittances disappeared in 2001, the year after Germany - a main destination for Turkish migrants - passed a broad legalization law.

``If I already have my family with me, I no longer have much reason to send money back home,'' he said.

In 2005, migrants in the United States sent home $39 billion. About half went to Mexico, where remittances are the second-largest source of foreign income, after oil sales. In El Salvador and Guatemala, remittances represent the largest source of foreign revenue.

There are no reliable figures on what happened to remittances in Mexico after a 1986 U.S. law legalized 2.6 million undocumented migrants; Mexico acknowledges it wasn't keeping very good track of the income back then.

According to central bank figures, remittances jumped by 39 percent in 1987, then dropped 13 percent in 1988. But the bank abandoned its old accounting system by 1990, calling it unreliable.

The effects of any legalization bill wouldn't be immediate because it would take time for migrants to sponsor family members for residency, said Agustin Escobar, an immigration specialist at Mexico's Center for Research on Social Anthropology.

Initially, there might even be a rise in remittances.

``In most models, legalization results in better conditions for workers, and in the very short term that improves their income and thus their capacity to send money home,'' he said.

However, he said, an eventual drop would be felt in Mexico's mid-sized cities ``among loan companies, businesses that sell farm supplies, and suppliers for small businesses.''

``The effect on remittances in the space of two or three years could well be a decline,'' he said.

Jeronimo Cortina, a political scientist for the California-based Tomas Rivera Policy Institute, said such a drop could affect Mexico's foreign reserves.

But Jesus Cervantes, director of statistics for Mexico's central bank, said the country's economy would suffer only in an extreme situation - such as if all 6 million of its undocumented migrants in the United States were deported at once.

He calls a big drop in remittances unlikely, and predicts there will be a steady stream of migration - and thus remittance income - for at least three decades, as wage differences between the two countries persist even under the best scenarios.

``There have been amnesties and reforms before, and they will continue to occur periodically'' as the United States adjusts to its need for labor, Cervantes said.

A sharp drop in remittances could be devastating for towns such as Santa Ana del Valle, Oaxaca, which has the highest emigration rate in Mexico and where 46 percent of households receive remittances.

``A lot of people send money back,'' said town Councilman Reynaldo Bautista, 52. ``A lot of the town depends on that.''

Bautista said many migrants would take their families north to live if they could, a dream that becomes easier with legalization.

Bautista is himself a case in point: He brought his wife and children to live with him in the United States when he obtained residency. He returned alone to serve as councilman - a duty demanded of men in his traditional Indian town - but plans to return north as soon as his two-year term is over.

Globally, remittances amounted to $226 billion in 2004, according to the World Bank, with $145 billion going to developing countries led by India, China and Mexico.

A 2006 World Bank report noted that remittances amount to twice as much as all international development aid, and noted they can ``improve a country's creditworthiness for external borrowing and ... expand access to capital and lower borrowing costs.''

The report suggested the best way to maximize development in migrants' home countries would be ``managed migration programs ... that combine temporary migration of low-skilled workers with incentives for return.''

The pending U.S. measure would create a guest worker program, in addition to strengthening border security and offering eventual citizenship to many of the estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the country. The proposal is currently gridlocked in the Senate.

Remittance losses could be offset by money sent home by temporary migrants participating in an expanded guest-worker program, or by those who remain outside the law - and therefore would be less likely to bring their families with them.

The Mexican government's official position is that getting legal status for its migrants is more important than any potential loss of remittances.

``It would be no problem for the economic development of the country if this were to happen,'' presidential spokesman Ruben Aguilar said, ``as long as the citizens of our country could get better, and above all more dignified, living conditions'' in the United States.
Protest coalition heads to capital
Rally pushes for immigrant rights

BY NIRAJ WARIKOO
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER

April 10, 2006

On the eve of a national protest expected to be held today in Washington, a diverse group of Michiganders gathered Sunday night in front of a Detroit church to rally for immigrant rights.

Chanting "We are America," hundreds stood on the steps of Holy Redeemer Catholic Church in southwest Detroit to protest legislation that would criminalize many in their communities. They listened to Latino, black, Arab-American, and Muslim leaders who voiced their support for immigrant rights.

"We're trying to be together, to make it happen," said Cristino Herrera, 29, a construction worker from Detroit at the rally. "We are not criminals ... we're paying taxes and raising families."

At the end of the protest, Herrera and about 100 other protesters boarded two buses headed for Washington, where thousands are expected to take part in a massive rally today at the nation's capital.

An anonymous flyer circulated at the rally, advocated that immigrants and others stay away from work or school today as part of a nationwide protest. None of the speakers at the rally, however, endorsed the call. Metropolitan Organizing Strategy Enabling Strength (MOSES), a coalition of faith-based groups in metro Detroit, organized the rally.

It was joined by a broad spectrum of groups: the Arab Community Center for Economic and Social Services (ACCESS), Latin Americans for Social and Economic Development , the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, and the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).


"Our basic core values are under assault," said Noel Saleh, chairman of the board of directors of ACCESS.

The demonstrators railed against a House bill passed in December that would criminalize the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States, and anyone who would support them -- including churches or social service groups. The U.S. Senate failed to reach a compromise Friday on a less-punitive version of the bill, and is to take up the issue again after it comes back from a current recess. "We're looking for good immigration reform," said Juan Escareno, an organizer for MOSES.

Escareno and other speakers preached unity.

Dawud Walid, head of the Michigan branch of CAIR, said the attacks on immigrant rights are a "war on the civil liberties of all Americans."

Walid stood next to priests from Catholic churches in Detroit, who have actively fought anti-immigrant legislation.

U.S. Rep. Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, a Detroit Democrat, told the crowd she opposed the House bill that would criminalize giving support to undocumented immigrants. They cheered in response.

"My brothers and sisters, we are one people," she said.

Corey Hall, of the Detroit Branch NAACP, said:

"We're all in this together."
Jackson seeks to build strong Black-Latino coalition in U.S.

by Leslie Jones McCloud
Chicago Defender

CHICAGO (NNPA) - One month after Mexican President Vicente Fox angered some African-American activists with his comments about Black workers, the Rev. Jesse Jackson Sr. announced that he will lead a trade mission to America's neighbor in order to seek business for Black companies.

Emphasizing the need for a strong Black-Latino alliance in the U.S., Jackson was joined by Carlos de Icaza, Mexico's ambassador to the U.S., in making the announcement.


Jackson likened today's goal to that of the relationship between the Dr. Martin Luther King and Caesar Chavez.

''We must build a world class bridge. For too long we have had shared interest but we have not effectively built this strategic alliance,'' Jackson said.

Part of Jackson's plan includes getting African American children to learn Spanish and increasing the number of Latino children who speak English.

Additional issues include teaching Black and Latino children nonviolence and to avoid gang warfare; cultural exchanges; organizing religious leaders from both ethnic groups; and fighting for affirmative action.

But the most critical issues that Fox has focused on have been the illegal immigration reforms being tossed about on Capitol Hill. Jackson said he is willing to work with Fox and other Latino leaders to help craft a sensible immigration policy that isn't as harsh to undocumented workers.

''The challenge is to build a legal way for people to migrate, so people
can come back and forth,'' de Icaza said at a news conference, and later
at the business luncheon at the 34th annual Rainbow/PUSH conference.

de Icaza said he will work with Jackson and a Black-Latino coalition to solve many issues that the nation's two largest minorities have in common.

''I am here to show respect and appreciation to African Americans and Operation PUSH. There is no reason (we) cannot be friends and brothers.
(African Americans) have a great history in the United States, with
(civil rights),'' he said.

He emphasized the importance of the ''human dimension'' in a relationship with African Americans. One area that the two groups can work on in the short-term is trade.

''We have with the United States, the biggest trade agreement on earth. We buy American goods more than Japan and the United Kingdom combined,'' de Icaza said. ''We have trade to protect.''

Rev. James T. Meeks, a state senator and vice president of PUSH, brought humor and insight to the somewhat strained relationship African-Americans and Latinos have shared over the past few weeks.

He compared it to the relationship between the former Los Angeles Lakers teammates Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant.

''Without cooperation, we will be at home like Shaq and Kobe - sitting at home watching others play,'' he said to a laughing audience at the business luncheon.

Jackson also said a strong Black-Latino alliance can play a role in the
reauthorization of the Voting Rights Act in 2007.

''The result of the Voting Rights Act created a historic rise in African –American and Latino elected officials around the nation,'' Jackson said.
He said the alliance is timely because combined, African-Americans and Latinos make up more than a majority of the populations in the country's largest 75 cities.

''He said, When we work together we can finish the unfinished business of our movement the constitutional right to vote, the constitutional rights to health care and education and the right to organize and breathe free.''
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
the Rev. Jesse Jackson Sr. announced that he will lead a trade mission to America's neighbor in order to seek business for Black companies.


Dude obviously has too much time on his hands.

And still has a strong belief in "keeping hope alive!" Roll Eyes 'Cause that's all he's going to get from Vicente Fox .. is some hope! Frown
Exactly what rights of the immigrants are being violated that cause them to protest so? And why protest a violation they willingly agree to? For example, an illegal Mexican immigrant who comes here must know that there is a good chance he will work for low wages under the table and long hours---yet he still chooses to come! If they are so offended by this supposed violation, why not just leave?
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
quote:
Originally posted by mirahjay:

9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to learn local traffic laws.


I've never been to Mexico, but I have seen how people drive in Colombia first hand.

ek

I'm all for requiring that all immigrants, whether documented or undocumented, study the driver's manual, take the test, and get a drivers license.

I can't imagine why so many people want to exempt undocumented immigrants from the requirement of obtaining a valid drivers license.

That's just plain crazy!

bang


Because a druver's license is a privelage confered to citizenss and legal residents of a state. Also, a driver's license is a form of identificication that enables a person more leway to move about. For the illegal immigrant who don't have avalid form of identification, how can we license them without a degree of certainity that they aren't using a false or stolen name. Having a valid license just enables them to continue that fraud. But yes, I see your point: if they don't have licenses, we can't ensure that they can adequately drive and that makes them at higher risk for endangering other people. The immediate solution would be to make illegals take driver's trainings and tests, but issue them ID cards and licenses stating their illegal presence in the country and make the IDs and licenses void for financial transactions. The long term solution would be to remove the problem alltogether by removing said persons.

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