..."Divine WORD OF GOD" then why are there so many "Divine" mistakes that cannot be explained away?

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6

2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48

3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2

4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16

5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17/ Jer 15:6
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28

6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8

7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12

8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19

9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14

10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12

11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13

12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17

13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28

14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33

15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8

16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5

17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12

18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31

19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13

20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9

21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21

22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20
God's attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28

23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7

24. Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Robbery forbidden
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15

25. Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8

26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
2 Kings 14:7,3
Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
Deut 23:7

27. Killing commanded
Ex 32:27
Killing forbidden
Ex 20:13

28. The blood-shedder must die
Gen 9:5,6
The blood-shedder must not die
Gen 4:15

29. The making of images forbidden
Ex 20:4
The making of images commanded
Ex 25:18,20

30. Slavery and oppression ordained
Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
Slavery and oppression forbidden
Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10

31. Improvidence enjoyed
Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
Improvidence condemned
1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22

32. Anger approved
Eph 4:26
Anger disapproved
Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20

33. Good works to be seen of men
Matt 5:16
Good works not to be seen of men
Matt 6:1

34. Judging of others forbidden
Matt 7:1,2
Judging of others approved
1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12

35. Christ taught non-resistance
Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
Luke 22:36/ John 2:15

36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
Luke 12:4
Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
John 7:1

37. Public prayer sanctioned
1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
Public prayer disapproved
Matt 6:5,6

38. Importunity in prayer commended
Luke 18:5,7
Importunity in prayer condemned
Matt 6:7,8

39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
The wearing of long hair by men condemned
1 Cor 11:14

40. Circumcision instituted
Gen 17:10
Circumcision condemned
Gal 5:2

41. The Sabbath instituted
Ex 20:8
The Sabbath repudiated
Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16

42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
Ex 20:11
The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites
out of Egypt
Deut 5:15

43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in
the same
John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5

44. Baptism commanded
Matt 28:19
Baptism not commanded
1 Cor 1:17,14

45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
Deut 14:7,8

46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
Taking of oaths forbidden
Matt 5:34

47. Marriage approved
Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
Marriage disapproved
1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8

48. Freedom of divorce permitted
Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
Divorce restricted
Matt 5:32

49. Adultery forbidden
Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
Adultery allowed
Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3

50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16

51. A man may marry his brother's widow
Deut 25:5
A man may not marry his brother's widow
Lev 20:21

52. Hatred to kindred enjoined
Luke 14:26
Hatred to kindred condemned
Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29

53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32

54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God's ministers
and punish evil doers only
Rom 13:1-3,6
It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the
good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35

55. Women's rights denied
Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
Women's rights affirmed
Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9

56. Obedience to masters enjoined
Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
Obedience due to God only
Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10

57. There is an unpardonable sin
Mark 3:29
There is not unpardonable sin
Acts 13:39

58. Man was created after the other animals
Gen 1:25,26,27
Man was created before the other animals
Gen 2:18,19

59. Seed time and harvest were never to cease
Gen 8:22
Seed time and harvest did cease for seven years
Gen 41:54,56/ Gen 45:6

60. God hardened Pharaoh's heart
Ex 4:21/ Ed 9:12
Pharaoh hardened his own heart
Ex 8:15

61. All the cattle and horses in Egypt died
Ex 9:3,6/ 14:9
All the horses of Egypt did not die
Ex 14:9

62. Moses feared Pharaoh
Ex 2:14,15,23; 4:19
Moses did not fear Pharaoh
Heb 11:27

63. There died of the plague twenty-four thousand
Num 25:9
There died of the plague but twenty-three thousand
1 Cor 10:8

64. John the Baptist was Elias
Matt 11:14
John the Baptist was not Elias
John 1:21

65. The father of Joseph, Mary's husband was Jacob
Matt 1:16
The father of Mary's husband was Heli
Luke 3:23

66. The father of Salah was Arphaxad
Gen 11:12
The father of Salah was Cainan
Luke 3:35,36

67. There were fourteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:2-6

68. There were fourteen generations from the Babylonian captivity
to Christ.
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from the Babylonian
captivity to Christ
Matt 1:12-16

69. The infant Christ was taken into Egypt
Matt 2:14,15,19,21,23
The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt
Luke 2:22, 39

70. Christ was tempted in the wilderness
Mark 1:12,13
Christ was not tempted in the wilderness
John 2:1,2

71. Christ preached his first sermon on the mount
Matt 5:1,2
Christ preached his first sermon on the plain
Luke 6:17,20

72. John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
Mark 1:14
John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
John 1:43/ John 3:22-24

73. Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with a staff
and sandals
Mark 6:8,9
Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with neither
staffs nor sandals.
Matt 10:9,10

74. A woman of Canaan besought Jesus
Matt 15:22
It was a Greek woman who besought Him
Mark 7:26

75. Two blind men besought Jesus
Matt 20:30
Only one blind man besought Him
Luke 18:35,38

76. Christ was crucified at the third hour
Mark 15:25
Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour
John 19:14,15

77. The two thieves reviled Christ.
Matt 27:44/ Mark 15:32
Only one of the thieves reviled Christ
Luke 23:39,40

78. Satan entered into Judas while at supper
John 13:27
Satan entered into him before the supper
Luke 22:3,4,7

79. Judas committed suicide by hanging
Matt 27:5
Judas did not hang himself, but died another way
Acts 1:18

80. The potter's field was purchased by Judas
Acts 1:18
The potter's field was purchased by the Chief Priests
Matt 27:6,7

81. There was but one woman who came to the sepulchre
John 20:1
There were two women who came to the sepulchre
Matt 28:1

82. There were three women who came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:1
There were more than three women who came to the sepulchre
Luke 24:10

83. It was at sunrise when they came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:2
It was some time before sunrise when they came.
John 20:1

84. There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulchre, and
they were standing up.
Luke 24:4
There was but one angel seen, and he was sitting down.
Matt 28:2,5

85. There were two angels seen within the sepulchre.
John 20:11,12
There was but one angel seen within the sepulchre
Mark 16:5

86. Christ was to be three days and three nights in the grave
Matt 12:40
Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave
Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9>

87. Holy ghost bestowed at pentecost
Acts 1:8,5
Holy ghost bestowed before pentecost
John 20:22

88. The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go into Galilee
Matt 28:10
The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go tarry at Jerusalem
Luke 24:49

89. Jesus first appeared to the eleven disciples in a room at
Jerusalem
Luke 24:33,36,37/ John 20:19
Jesus first appeared to the eleven on a mountain in Galilee
Matt 28:16,17

90. Christ ascended from Mount Olivet
Acts 1:9,12
Christ ascended from Bethany
Luke 24:50,51

91. Paul's attendants heard the miraculous voice, and stood
speechless
Acts 9:7
Paul's attendants heard not the voice and were prostrate
Acts 26:14

92. Abraham departed to go into Canaan
Gen 12:5
Abraham went not knowing where
Heb 11:8

93. Abraham had two sons
Gal 4:22
Abraham had but one son
Heb 11:17

94. Keturah was Abraham's wife
Gen 25:1
Keturah was Abraham's concubine
1 Chron 1:32

95. Abraham begat a son when he was a hundred years old, by the
interposition of Providence
Gen 21:2/ Rom 4:19/ Heb 11:12
Abraham begat six children more after he was a hundred years
old without any interposition of providence
Gen 25:1,2

96. Jacob bought a sepulchre from Hamor
Josh 24:32
Abraham bought it of Hamor
Acts 7:16

97. God promised the land of Canaan to Abraham and his seed
forever
Gen 13:14,15,17; 17:8
Abraham and his seed never received the promised land
Acts 7:5/ Heb 11:9,13

98. Goliath was slain by Elhanan
2 Sam 21:19 *note, was changed in translation to be
correct. Original manuscript was incorrect>
The brother of Goliath was slain by Elhanan
1 Chron 20:5

99. Ahaziah began to reign in the twelfth year of Joram
2 Kings 8:25
Ahaziah began to reign in the eleventh year of Joram
2 Kings 9:29

100. Michal had no child
2 Sam 6:23
Michal had five children
2 Sam 21:8

101. David was tempted by the Lord to number Israel
2 Sam 24:1
David was tempted by Satan to number the people
1 Chron 21:1

102. The number of fighting men of Israel was 800,000; and of
Judah 500,000
2 Sam 24:9
The number of fighting men of Israel was 1,100,000; and of
Judah 470,000
1 Chron 21:5

103. David sinned in numbering the people
2 Sam 24:10
David never sinned, except in the matter of Uriah
1 Kings 15:5

104. One of the penalties of David's sin was seven years of
famine.
2 Sam 24:13
It was not seven years, but three years of famine
1 Chron 21:11,12

105. David took seven hundred horsemen
2 Sam 8:4
David took seven thousand horsemen
1 Chron 18:4

106. David bought a threshing floor for fifty shekels of silver
2 Sam 24:24
David bought the threshing floor for six hundred shekels of
gold
1 Chron 21:25

107. David's throne was to endure forever.
Ps 89:35-37
David's throne was cast down
Ps 89:44


108. Christ is equal with God
John 10:30/ Phil 2:5
Christ is not equal with God
John 14:28/ Matt 24:36

109. Jesus was all-powerful
Matt 28:18/ John 3:35
Jesus was not all-powerful
Mark 6:5

110. The law was superseded by the Christian dispensation
Luke 16:16/ Eph 2:15/ Rom 7:6
The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation
Matt 5:17-19

111. Christ's mission was peace
Luke 2:13,14
Christ's mission was not peace
Matt 10:34

112. Christ received not testimony from man
John 5:33,34
Christ did receive testimony from man
John 15:27

113. Christ's witness of himself is true.
John 8:18,14
Christ's witness of himself is not true.
John 5:31

114. Christ laid down his life for his friends
John 15:13/ John 10:11
Christ laid down his life for his enemies
Rom 5:10

115. It was lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
John 19:7
It was not lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
John 18:31

116. Children are punished for the sins of the parents
Ex 20:5
Children are not punished for the sins of the parents
Ezek 18:20

117. Man is justified by faith alone
Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2
Man is not justified by faith alone
James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13

118. It is impossible to fall from grace
John 10:28/ Rom 8:38,39
It is possible to fall from grace
Ezek 18:24/ Heb 6:4-6, 2 Pet 2:20,21

119. No man is without sin
1 Kings 8:46/ Prov 20:9/ Eccl 7:20/ Rom 3:10
Christians are sinless
1 John 3: 9,6,8

120. There is to be a resurrection of the dead
1 Cor 15:52/ Rev 20:12,13/ Luke 20:37/ 1 Cor 15:16
There is to be no resurrection of the dead
Job 7:9/ Eccl 9:5/ Is 26:14

121. Reward and punishment to be bestowed in this world
Prov 11:31
Reward and punishment to be bestowed in the next world
Rev 20:12/ Matt 16:27/ 2 Cor 5:10

122. Annihilation the portion of all mankind
Job 3: 11,13-17,19-22/ Eccl 9:5,10/ Eccl 3:19,20
Endless misery the portion of all mankind
Matt 25:46/ Rev 20:10,15/ Rev 14:11/ Dan 12:2

123. The Earth is to be destroyed
2 Pet 3:10/ Heb 1:11/ Rev 20:11
The Earth is never to be destroyed
Ps 104:5/ Eccl 1:4

124. No evil shall happen to the godly
Prov 12:21/ 1 Pet 3:13
Evil does happen to the godly
Heb 12:6/ Job 2:3,7

125. Worldly good and prosperity are the lot of the godly
Prov 12:21/ Ps 37:28,32,33,37/ Ps 1:1,3/ Gen 39:2/
Job 42:12
Worldly misery and destitution the lot of the godly
Heb 11:37,38/ Rev 7:14/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Luke 21:17

126. Worldly prosperity a reward of righteousness and a blessing
Mark 10:29,30/ Ps 37:25/ Ps 112:1,3/ Job 22:23,24/
Prov 15:6
Worldly prosperity a curse and a bar to future reward
Luke 6:20,24/ Matt 6:19,21/ Luke 16:22/ Matt 19:24/
Luke 6:24

127. The Christian yoke is easy
Matt 11:28,29,30
The Christian yoke is not easy
John 16:33/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Heb 12:6,8

128. The fruit of God's spirit is love and gentleness
Gal 5:22
The fruit of God's spirit is vengeance and fury
Judg 15:14/ 1 Sam 18:10,11

129. Longevity enjoyed by the wicked
Job 21:7,8/ Ps 17:14/ Eccl 8:12/ Is 65:20
Longevity denied to the wicked
Eccl 8:13/ Ps 55:23/ Prov 10:27/ Job 36:14/ Eccl 7:17

130. Poverty a blessing
Luke 6:20,24/ Jams 2:5
Riches a blessing
Prov 10:15/ Job 22:23,24/ Job 42:12
Neither poverty nor riches a blessing
Prov 30:8,9

131. Wisdom a source of enjoyment
Prov 3:13,17
Wisdom a source of vexation, grief and sorrow
Eccl 1:17,18

132. A good name is a blessing
Eccl 7:1/ Prov 22:1
A good name is a curse
Luke 6:26

133. Laughter commended
Eccl 3:1,4/ Eccl 8:15
Laughter condemned
Luke 6:25/ Eccl 7:3,4

134. The rod of correction a remedy for foolishness
Prov 22:15
There is no remedy for foolishness
Prov 27:22

135. A fool should be answered according to his folly
Prov 26:5
A fool should not be answered according to his folly
Prov 26:4

136. Temptation to be desired
James 1:2
Temptation not to be desired
Matt 6:13
137. Prophecy is sure
2 Pet 1:19
Prophecy is not sure
Jer 18:7-10

138. Man's life was to be one hundred and twenty years
Gen 6:3/ Ps 90:10
Man's life is but seventy years
Ps 90:10

139. The fear of man was to be upon every beast
Gen 9:2
The fear of man is not upon the lion
Prov 30:30

140. Miracles a proof of divine mission
Matt 11:2-5/ John 3:2/ Ex 14:31
Miracles not a proof of divine mission
Ex 7:10-12/ Deut 13:1-3/ Luke 11:19

141. Moses was a very meek man
Num 12:3
Moses was a very cruel man
Num 31:15,17

142. Elijah went up to heaven
2 Kings 2:11
None but Christ ever ascended into heaven
John 3:13

143. All scripture is inspired
2 Tim 3:16
Some scripture is not inspired
1 Cor 7:6/ 1 Cor 7:12/ 2 Cor 11:17


Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
peace, but a sword.
- Matthew 10:34

... all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
- Matthew 26:52


For wrath killeth the foolish man...
- Job 5:2

... let not the sun go down on your wrath.
- Ephesians 4:26


And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man which
is in heaven.
- John 3:13

... and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
- 2 Kings 2:11


If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
- John 5:31

I am one that bear witness of myself...
- John 8:18
[Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]


A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children...
- Proverbs 13:22

Sell that ye have and give alms...
- Luke 12:33


Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord... Wealth and riches
shall be in his house...
- Psalms 112:1-3

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than
for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
- Matthew 19:24



I and my father are one.
- John 10:30

... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
- John 14:28
[Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]

Thou shalt not kill
- Exodus 20:13

Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his
side... and slay every man his brother...
- Exodus 32:27


Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.
- Exodus 20:8

The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot
away with: it is iniquity.
- Isaiah 3:22


Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness
of anything that is in heaven... earth... [or] water.
- Leviticus 26:11

And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt
thou make them.
- Exodus 25:18


For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works.
- Ephesians 2:8-9

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
faith only.
- James 2:24


God is not a man, that he should lie: neither the son of man,
that he should repent.
- Numbers 23:19

And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his
people.
- Exodus 32:14


... the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall
hear his voice, and come forth...
- John 5:28-29

As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth
down to the grave shall come up no more.
- Job 7:9

... thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth,
hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for
wound, stripe for stripe.
- Exodus 21:23-25

... resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right
cheek, turn to him the other also.
- Matthew 5:39


Honor thy father and mother.
- Exodus 20:12

If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, and
wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own
life also, he cannot be my disciple.
- Luke 14:26

Lay not up for yourself treasures upon the earth...
- Matthew 6:19

In the house of the righteous is much treasure...
- Proverbs 15:6


I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
- Genesis 32:30

No man hath seen God at any time.
- John 1:18


The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
- Ezekiel 18:20

... I the lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of
the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth
generation.
- Exodus 20:5


Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth
understanding.
- Proverbs 3:13

For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth
knowledge increaseth sorrow.
- Ecclesiastes 1:18


The Lord is good to all.
- Psalm 145:6

I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.
- Isaiah 45:7

Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.
- Matthew 5:22

[Jesus said] Ye fools and blind.
- Matthew 23:17


For all have sinned.
- Romans 3:23

There was a man... whose name was Job; and that man was perfect
and upright.
- Job 1:1


Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
- 2 Kings 8:26

Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
- 2 Chronicles 22:2

If a man vow a vow unto the Lord or swear an oath... he shall do
according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.
- Numbers 30:2

But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven... nor by
earth.
- Matthew 5:34-35


... the earth abideth forever.
- Ecclesiastes 1:4

... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and
the works that are therein shall be burned up.
- 2 Peter 3:10


... for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger
forever.
- Jeremiah 3:12

Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever.
- Jeremiah 17:4

... God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.
- James 1:13

And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt
Abraham.
- Genesis 22:1


And God saw everything that he made, and behold it was very good.
- Genesis 1:31

And it repented the Lord that he had made man on earth, and it
grieved him at his heart
- Genesis 6:6

For now have I chosen and sanctified this house that my name be
there forever; and mine eyes and my heart shall be there
perpetually.
- II Corinthians 7:16

Howbeit the most high dwelleth not in temples made with hands.
- Acts 7:48


[God dwells] in the light which no man can approach unto.
- I Timothy 6:16

The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.

- I Kings 8:12

And the Lord called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid.
- Genesis 3:9,10

Ye hath neither heard his voice, at any time, nor seen his shape.
- John 5:37


Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the
elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel... They saw
God, and did eat and drink.
- Exodus 24: 9-11

Whom no man hath seen nor can see.
- I Timothy 6:16


With God all things are possible.
- Matthew 29:26

And the Lord was with Judah, and he drove out the inhabitants of
the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the
valley, because they had chariots of iron.
- Judges 1:19


God is not the author of confusion.
- I Corinthians 24:33

Out of the mouth of the most high proceedeth not evil and good?
- Lamentations 3:38


Those that seek me early shall find me.
- Proverbs 8:17

Then shall they call upon me but I will not answer; they shall
seek me early, but shall not find me.
- Proverbs 1:28

On the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of
atonement; it shall be a holy convocation unto you; and ye shall
afflict your souls and offer an offering made by fire unto the
Lord.
- Leviticus 23:27

For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day
that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt
offering or sacrifices.
- Jeremiah 7:22


And the priest shall burn all on the altar to be a burnt
sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savor unto the
Lord.
- Leviticus 1:9

Your burnt offering are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet
unto me.
- Jeremiah 7:20


God is not a man, that he should lie
- Numbers 23:19

And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the
Lord have deceived that prophet.
- Ezekiel 24:9

There is none other God but one.
- I Corinthians 8:4

And God said, Let us make man in our image.
- Genesis 1:26

When ye go, ye shall not go empty; but every woman shall borrow
of her neighbor, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels
of silver and jewels of gold, and raiment; and ye shall put them
on your sons and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the
Egyptians.
- Exodus 3:21,22

Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, nether rob him.
- Leviticus 19:13

At the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of
man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
- Genesis 4:5,6

And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should
kill him.
- Genesis 4:15

Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not,
neither do they spin... if God so clothe the grass of the
field... shall he not much more clothe you? Therefore, take no
thought, saying what shall we eat? or what shall we drink? or
wherewithal shall we be clothed?... Take, therefore, no thought
for the morrow.
- Matthew 6:28, 30-34

But if any provideth not for his own, especially for those of his
own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an
infidel.
- I Timothy 5:8

Be ye angry and sin not.
- Ephesians 4:26

Be not hasty in they spirit to be angry; for anger resideth in
the bosom of fools.
- Ecclesiastes 7:9



Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good
works.
- Matthew 5:16

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of
them.
- Matthew 6:1


And Solomon stood before the alter of the Lord, in the presence
of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands
toward heaven...
- I Kings 7:22

When thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are; for
they love to pray standing in the synagogues, and in the corners
of the streets, that they may be seen of men...
- Matthew 6:5


And no razor shall come on his head; for the child shall be a
Nazarite unto God from the womb.
- Judges 8:5

Doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man hath long
hair, it is a shame unto him?
- I Corinthians 6:14


Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
- Exodus 20:8

One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every
day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
- Romans 14:5


For in the six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and
all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the
Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
- Exodus 20:11

And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and
that the Lord thy God brought the out thence through a mighty
hand and by a stretched-out arm; therefore the Lord thy God
commanded the to keep the Sabbath day.
- Deuteronomy 5:15


There is nothing unclean of itself.
- Romans 14:14

Nevertheless, these shall ye not eat, of them that chew the cud
or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel and the
hare, and the coney; for they chew the cud, but divide not the
hoof, therefore they are unclean unto you. And the swine,
because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is
unclean unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch
their dead carcass.
- Deuteronomy 14:7,8


Cursed is he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his
father, or the daughter of his mother.
- Deuteronomy 27:22

And Abraham said... She is my sister; she is the daughter of my
father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my
wife.
- Genesis 20:11,12


If brethren dwell together, and one of them die and have no
child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a
stranger; her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take
her to him to wife.
- Deuteronomy 25:5

If a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing...
they shall be childless.
- Leviticus 20:21


He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never
forgiveness.
- Mark 3:29

And by him that believe are justified from all things.
- Acts 13:39


[John the Baptist] is Elias which was for to come.
- Matthew 11:14

And they asked him, what then? Art thou [John the Baptist] Elias?
And he saith, I am not.
- John 1:21


Now, after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God.
- Mark 1:14

After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of
Judea... and John was also baptizing Enon... for John was not yet
cast into prison.
- John 3:22-24


And it was in the third hour, and they crucified him.
- Mark 25:3-4

And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth
hour; and he saith unto the Jews, behold your king... Shall I
crucify your king?
- John 19:14-15


They gave him vinegar to drink, mingled with gall.
- Matthew 27:34

And they gave him to drink, wine mingled with myrrh.
- Mark 15:23



And the men which journeyed with [Paul] stood speechless, hearing
a voice, but seeing no man.
- Acts 9:7

And they that were with me [Paul] saw indeed the light and were
afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
- Acts 22:9


Abraham had two sons; one by a bonds-maid, the other by a free
woman.
- Galatians 4:22

By faith, Abraham when he was tried offered up Isaac... his only
begotten son.
- Hebrews 11:17

Therefore Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child unto the day
of her death.
- II Samuel 6:23

The five sons of Michal, the daughter of Saul.
- II Samuel 21:8


And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he
moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel.
- II Samuel 24:1

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number
Israel.
- I Chronicles 21:1

All power is given unto [Jesus] in heaven and in earth.
- Matthew 28:18

And [Jesus] could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his
hands on a few sick folk and healed them.
- Mark 6:5

There shall no evil happen to the just.
- Proverbs 12:21

Whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom
he receiveth.
- Hebrews 12:6

Always Remember that: "Anytime We As A People Are Not Having Our WaySomeone Else Is Having Theirs...And It's Never To Our Advantage."

Original Post
There are no contradictions in the Holy Bible. It is difficult for those who are not learned, to understand.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14


OK, I'll do one...
quote:
Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel... They saw God, and did eat and drink.
- Exodus 24: 9-11

Whom no man hath seen nor can see.
- I Timothy 6:16


God has appeared "physically" to several people. When it says 'no man hath seen nor can see' (you didn't post the entire verse), it means God in all his majesty. His abilities are beyond our imagination.
1 Timothy 6
1. Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

2. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.

3. If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

4. He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

5. Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

6. But godliness with contentment is great gain.

7. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.

8. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

9. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

10. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

11. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

12. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

13. I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;

14. That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

15. Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

16. Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

17. Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

18. That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

19. Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

20. O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

21. Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
Do you study mathematics or logic? Math gets its beauty because its driven from truth and proof. Yet there are paradoxes in math, so why can't there be paradoxes in the Bible?

For example? I'll give some of the paradoxes in math. What is 0^0 (zero to the power zero). One argument says that 0 to any power is 0. Hence 0^0 = 0. But the other argument says that any number raised to the 0 power is 1, so 0^0 = 1. ??? OH NO ALL OF MATH WILL CRUBMLE??? Unless, we don't define 0^0 and make sure not to use this number.

Another is called Russel's Paradox. Let A be the set of all sets that are not members of themselves. Then is A a member of itself? If so, then by the definition of membership in A (not being a member of itself), then A is not a member of A - CONTRADICTION!!!! If not, then A not a member of itself, then again by the definition of the set A, A belongs to itself - CONTRADICTION!!!!!

This doesn't mean that all of mathematics is useless, just like these verses in the Bible shouldn't mean that all of the Bible is useless.
quote:
so why can't there be paradoxes in the Bible?

because the bible claims to be w/ out errors..

quote:
This doesn't mean that all of mathematics is useless, just like these verses in the Bible shouldn't mean that all of the Bible is useless.


no one said the bible is useless..

just that it contradicts itself...
quote:
Originally posted by Blake Manner:
Do you study mathematics or logic? Math gets its beauty because its driven from truth and proof. Yet there are paradoxes in math, so why can't there be paradoxes in the Bible?



One should be careful with the assertion that there are paradoxes "In mathematics". Blake, the paradoxes that you list are all instances where one concludes that certain operations are in fact impossible to perform or define. The paradox is not simply left to stand. Something has to give. The paradox must be resolved somehow.

Just as in indirect proof (or proof by contradiction), achieving a "paradox" (or a conclusion contrary to established or assumed fact) points to the falsity of an initial assumption.

The fact that there are contradictory things in the Bible is relevant because it points to the problem of asserting that this book is the "inerrant Word of God". The Bible contains narrative and historical accounts ("this happened" and "that happened"). One criterion for judging such a narrative "inerrant" is that there be internal coherence (or more generally, a lack of conflictual elements: "x happened" and "not- x happened").

I believe that the Bible has value and that it is not useless. But I also do not believe it is the "inspired and inerrant Word of God".
The Helio Biblio 'contradicts' itself because it is myth that is not supposed to be taken literally. Contradictions 'shouldn't' be a problem. What Fine is hilighting is that the literalist religio-fascists are idiots. "They" are the ones who teach that the Bible is the literal word of God(to all people) and therefore they create this paradox. They are the ones who teach religious dogma to control the masses, rather than the hidden essoteric teachings of the Abrahamic religions, therefore they create this problem for themselves...I mean, they can't expect us not to think now can they?...Well, maybe some of us...

I would also add that if they would stop insisting that the veneration of the 'aspects' or 'incarnations' of God is 'idol worship' than I think most of the Helio Biblio's 'contradictions' would dissapear. This 'polytheism' that is still present in the compilation of other ancient culture's spiritual traditions with a patriarchial twist, known today as the Bible, is largely what makes it sound like one big contradiction...

El, Elohim, Adonai, YHWH, Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh, Shaddai, and Tzevaot, between praise names and aspects we could go on and on...
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
The Helio Biblio 'contradicts' itself because it is myth that is not supposed to be taken literally.


Oshun, I have to disagree with you here, at least for now. The studying I've been doing of the Bible over the past year is leading me to the conclusion that the writers and the compilers did indeed mean for the Bible to be taken as the literal word of God. I come to that conclusion because older passages that couldn't possibly be literally true are referred to by later books in the Bible in terms that make it clear that the writer of the later believed in the literal truth of the earlier text. I don't have cites handy, but New Testament books refer to Adam and Eve, for example.

I have a long way to go, but from what it's starting to look like to me, the idea that this stuff wasn't meant to be taken literally sounds like it evolved in response to science and enlightenment, as a way for the church to retain its relevance.

This is one reason I have rejected the Bible, and Christianity (though certainly not Jesus) along with it.
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
The Helio Biblio 'contradicts' itself because it is myth that is not supposed to be taken literally.


Oshun, I have to disagree with you here, at least for now. The studying I've been doing of the Bible over the past year is leading me to the conclusion that the writers and the compilers did indeed mean for the Bible to be taken as the literal word of God. I come to that conclusion because older passages that couldn't possibly be literally true are referred to by later books in the Bible in terms that make it clear that the writer of the later believed in the literal truth of the earlier text. I don't have cites handy, but New Testament books refer to Adam and Eve, for example.

I have a long way to go, but from what it's starting to look like to me, the idea that this stuff wasn't meant to be taken literally sounds like it evolved in response to science and enlightenment, as a way for the church to retain its relevance.

This is one reason I have rejected the Bible, and Christianity (though certainly not Jesus) along with it.


I stand corrected (somewhat)

The 'writers' of the Bible, or rather the 're-writers' of the compliled myths of previous cultures now known as the Bible, probably re-wrote the texts to sound literal out of a lack of understanding of the original cotexts of said 'myths' since they were 'borrowed' in the first place...or... They re-wroote them (and re-interpreted them under a patriarchial culture) as literal history to attempt to make them look less 'borrowed'. But The priests knew that they were myths...It's the masses that are fooled into being literalists.

Remember almost all of the stories in the Bible are based on the Mythos of previous nearby cultures...hence at some point 'they' meaning the plagerizers, HAD to know they weren't dealing with anything literal.

I hope that makes sense...
The reason I really dislike threads that start like this one, is because the author doesn't take nearly enough time to research the ANSWERS to the questions that they pose and instead frames his presupposition as the prove of what he chooses to believe.

For example, I have seen many Christian apologist answer ever last single one of those supposed 'errors'. Now did you research the answers that the apologist provided or are you simply using this thread to advance the disbelieve that you want to hold?
I am not offended. It is actually irrelevent in the grand scheme of things.

After so many years of debate on various subjects, I just get tired of disenguous debators who throw rocks while hiding behind houses.

All you did was cut and paste, you didn't research, you didn't actually look for plausible explanations for seemingly contradictory passages etc.

So exactly what are you trying to prove? That you are imminently capable at pressing CONTROL-C & CONTROL-V?
quote:
Originally posted by Dell Gines:
I am not offended. It is actually irrelevent in the grand scheme of things.

After so many years of debate on various subjects, I just get tired of disenguous debators who throw rocks while hiding behind houses.

All you did was cut and paste, you didn't research, you didn't actually look for plausible explanations for seemingly contradictory passages etc.




My attitude is this ...

If god really "wrote" the book ... and if he really cared that we believe it ... and if "believing" in and of itself were really a thing of such great weight .... then it shouldn't require years of research just to make the damn thing make sense ....

But then that's JMHO ... fro
quote:
then it shouldn't require years of research just to make the damn thing make sense ....


Why? Many worthwile things in this world take time and in most cases involve pain as well..e.g. child birth

So why should the Bible or Life for that matter be required to have a schedule for making sense.
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
quote:
then it shouldn't require years of research just to make the damn thing make sense ....


Why? Many worthwile things in this world take time and in most cases involve pain as well..e.g. child birth

So why should the Bible .... be required to have a schedule for making sense.



Because supposedly it has eternal consequences.

And I may die at any moment.

All those other things which you mention do not have eternal consequences ... Razz

That mug needs to make sense yesterday ...
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
My attitude is this ...

If god really "wrote" the book ... and if he really cared that we believe it ... and if "believing" in and of itself were really a thing of such great weight .... then it shouldn't require years of research just to make the damn thing make sense ....

But then that's JMHO ... fro

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing : but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. - Proverb:25:2
When speaking of the bible, I believe it's important to study the history/culture(s) from which it comes from. Folks now as before read the book go to some bible classes and that's that. Overlooking the importants of the history of the book.
...Perhaps in this case, ignorance is bliss.
quote:
Originally posted by DivineJoy:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
My attitude is this ...

If god really "wrote" the book ... and if he really cared that we believe it ... and if "believing" in and of itself were really a thing of such great weight .... then it shouldn't require years of research just to make the damn thing make sense ....

But then that's JMHO ... fro

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing : but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. - Proverb:25:2


If that is so, then why does God act as if it is all clear and anyone who didn't accept it did so on purpose? Another verse in the Bible says that God has made all this known to all, yet in that verse is says God has concealed it.......
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor:
When speaking of the bible, I believe it's important to study the history/culture(s) from which it comes from. Folks now as before read the book go to some bible classes and that's that. Overlooking the importants of the history of the book.
...Perhaps in this case, ignorance is bliss.


Yes, because many parts of the Bible are obviously meant to be taken on a much deeper level than literal. A literal reading of the Bible in non-Hebrew 21st century Western society context and mindset is a recipie for disaster.

I tend to treat many parts of the Bible like I would treat a Buddhist koan. It's meant to be understood on a mental and spiritual level beyond mundane literalistic rationality, because it's meaning escapes methodical rational thought.
http://www.ministerturnsatheist.org/whatifwrong.html

WHAT IF I'M WRONG? (PASCAL'S BAD WAGER)
By Joe Holman
As is the norm in a work setting, one day I end up talking with a theist about atheism
and religion. The conversation just started, popped up from out of nowhere, and
those to whom I speak are amazed, mainly because they haven't met that many
atheists who know a good deal about what the bible really says. They listen and
give the usual Christian retorts I hear so often. Then, towards the end of the
conversation when all else has failed, they ask in sincere wonder, "What if you're
wrong, Joe? What then? What if God does exist?" I am always happy when
someone asks this question because it gives me an opportunity to deflate the
implied argument that lies behind it, namely Pascal's Wager. Blaise Pascal, was a
17th century theologian who put it this way:

"The unbeliever has everything to lose and nothing to gain. If God does not exist
and I believe in him, I lose nothing. But if God does exist, and I don't believe in him, I
lose everything."

To some theologians, this argument, believe it or not, sounds good, but it is
obviously lacking so that even a Hell-fire preaching theist can sometimes see it's
flaws. The thrust of this first objection to it is, very simply, if I can't believe in
something, how can I and why should I pretend to? To pursue a course of action
without believing in it is called "going through the motions." Does God want
hypocritical service? What's the difference in Pascal's Wager and self-deceit? Not
much, sounds like! Before my resignation from the ministry, I was "undercover" as
an atheist for the last two years before finally defecting. I was pretending then,
going through the motions. I haven't met a believer yet who heard my story and
would have the gall to tell me that I was saved in that unbelieving, pretentious state
of "undercover" faith. I can fake faith all I want, and I did for a while, but faith never
came! I can fake faith in Santa Claus all I want, but faith will never come.

Believers somehow seem to think that a thought-out, enlightened atheist might just
forget about all the major biblical and doctrinal issues that caused the unbelief in
the first place, and just mysteriously become "faithful" again. This just doesn't
happen to atheists who reject the bible for valid, logical reasons. It should be rather
obvious to everyone that pretentious service to a god would not even be as good
as no service!

The second problem with Pascal's wager is that it is completely selfish in its'
application when used by believers. For instance, a Christian will ask an atheist, "Is
it worth risking going to Hell because of unbelief in Jesus?", but they fail to apply
the argument to themselves and their faith. "Christians, is it worth risking going to
Hell by rejecting Allah?" Or, I could say, "Fundamentalist Orthodox Christian, is it
worth risking going to Hell by rejecting Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon?" Or,
"Is it worth risking going to Hell by rejecting Quezalcoatl of the Aztecs?" By this
same logic, we could ask, "Is it worth risking burning in Hell for unbelief in even one
god out there who might turn out to be true?" In all these cases, the application is
the same; the Christian wants the atheist to wager on the acceptance of a god, the
Christian God, but forgets that this applies to any and all gods since they are all
equally nebulous and inscrutable, and they all could be!

It could be that Quezalcoatl of the Aztecs is indeed the real god after all, or it could
be that Allah is the true god, or every manifested god may be a god in charge of its
own small realm, or every god may be a corrupted form of an unknown god in which
case everybody's wrong, or they all might be different manifestations of god, or it
could be that god is a squirrel on a tree, a beagle in a pet shop, a star, or a quasar
a million light years from us, etc. ad nausium! I don't think Christian apologist's have
given enough thought to the fact that god may be real indeed, just an unprincipled
monster who plans to send all humans to a fiery Hell when they die regardless of
belief or non. If this is true, then we're all in a lot of trouble!

What if, what if, what if! Growing up, my mother always told me, "Joe, quit with the
'what if' questions! They're no good." That's pretty much true. Like anything
conceivable and a quintillion other things that could be true, I am not about to
wager on one unknown above another just because my culture and my parent's
religion happened to land right in my lap! By the Christians' own logic therefore, I
really shouldn't wager on the Christian God because that god is only one, whereas
any one of the hundreds of thousands of them out there might turn up! The odds
are now too great that I might be wrong. Doesn't it make perfect sense then to stay
neutral on the issue? Wagering on unknowns is bad enough - just ask anyone who
lost their money gambling!

The third problem with Pascal's Wager is that the Christian god may indeed be real
every wit like the bible describes him, in which case, me and every other atheist,
pagan, heathen, deist, anti-Christian religious person, etc. will roast in a hot fiery
furnace for a ceaseless eternity, screaming in bloodcurdling agony, every second
of every minute, of every hour, of every day, of every year, of every century, of
every millenia, forever!

If Joe Holman stands before an angry god on the day of judgment, and if it is true
that all unbelievers must burn in Hell, regardless of their sincerity or honesty in their
search of the facts, and if it is true that one cannot repent on that final day and
thereafter, then I will stand speechless before my monstrous creator and accept my
sentence--remember, I won't have a choice in the matter! The problem with this
horrible scenario is that it completely displays the terror and brutish nature of the
God of the New Testament who punishes with not the slightest hint of mercy, those
who disagree with him. Pascal's Wager brings to light every intolerant and hateful
attribute of this bully in the sky called Jehovah. This god is like a mob boss who kills
those who oppose him in the most hideous ways imaginable.

In my case, I think too much and ask too many questions, so I am going to be
silenced, "knocked off" by this organized crime boss who made the worlds. Pascal's
Wager makes a man think about the eternal anger, the divine and supreme level of
unimaginable cruelty, unleashed from a being who could simply blot out the
existence of those who cross him, but instead, chooses to watch them suffer forever
and ever and ever!

If I am going to wager on anything, is it not much easier to wager against the
existence of an infinitely evil entity like the god of holy writ, heartless and vindictive
of a monster as he is, and instead, throw off that hypocritical shroud of faith and
rather, wager on science, on decency, on compassion, and human intellectual
dignity? Apologist Josh McDowell said it best when he said: "The heart cannot
accept what my mind rejects." I agree.

So I am going to wager that if a supreme being could and does exist, then it is a
compassionate and smart enough being to know what we enlightened atheists
know--that people are made the way they are by their genetics and culture and
raising, and that it is a combination of many factors that make a person who and
what they are, thus, eliminating the idea of man as an "evil," and "sinful," or
"depraved" creature who deserves an eternity of misery. Should such a god of
compassion be up there hiding, I have so many questions for him I don't feel they
could ever be answered.

I do not believe a god can exist and am wholly convinced that the god idea is so
highly contradictory and ridiculous on every level of thought that I can safely say
and stand for what I stand for today. Like any and everyone else however, I could
be wrong about the god question, but I have not the slightest reason to alter my
belief system or life to make some "wager" in the nebulous world of unknowns
where spooks walk and goblins dwell. I leave that miserable world of ghouls, gods
and goddesses alone. I want no part of it. Reason, common sense, and wholesome
humanistic values demand that the ignorance of the past remain in the past where
it belongs. (JH)
Why I left Christianity

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/why.html

This includes some notes into my thoughts and reading for reference and further research. To make finding this information easy, most of the notes lead to quality websites whilst some of the books referenced link to free on-line versions.

My background was very liberal. I was first attracted to Christianity when I was only about six by hearing the story of the crucifixion at school. I remember feeling that what happened to Jesus was unfair as (so I thought) he just wanted people to be good and to love each other. So he had my support. This was basically my attitude until my late teens. Very simplistic, and not so far particularly damaging! What I believed in from the start and what attracted me to Christianity was a message of love. It was the desire for this that was primal and would become the driving force that took me out later.

Although I believed in it, for the first years religion was just one of my aspects. Until my late teens it was not particularly what my life was always centred around. At about 15 I thought that I needed to find some more seriousness to life, which I didn't perceive (rightly or wrongly) in the people around me. I decided I should go to church. None of my family went, although my parents are nominally Christians, it was never a big deal for them. So I told them I wanted to go to church. My Dad used to go when he was younger, so he took me for a while so he could "explain the ropes." We went to a moderately high Anglican church, and the layout of the service was very strange until I got used to it. I loved going. I found the gentle atmosphere and sense of mystery, and the focus on a message of love just what I wanted. I was also very attracted to church music (the "classical" type) and joined the church choir. This got me more involved, but mostly in the music and fellowship rather than any strong religion. I did take it seriously though, it just wasn't at all evangelical or fundamentalist etc. I decided to get confirmed, and also took an active part in various discussion groups. There wasn't at this stage in my religious experience anything unpleasant that I had noticed. I was always unhappy with anything at all fundamentalist in religion and thought that "charismatics" as we called them were a bit disturbing and probably crazy. It didn't seem to have much to do with religion as I knew it.

Next I went to university to study for a physics degree. I joined the university Anglican society that was again very liberal. They were the sort who were mostly interested in spirituality and fellowship. The "kingdom of God" was an inner process and not a revolutionary state on earth! Their favourite theologian was Dietrich Bonhoeffer. They were certainly not evangelical. I also had (and still have) many liberal and very good friends who were Methodists and Catholics, as well as those whose religious status I do not know. As I said, a desire for the message of love and not dogma was the driving force at the time. Up to that stage I would be hard pressed to say that my religion was particularly unhealthy. Instead it was thoughtful and became more so. It was of course a deeper thinking about Christianity and the search for deeper spirituality (however one may think of "spirituality") that would later lead me out of religion.

I had always liked philosophy, but I wasn't widely read. Up to then it had been chiefly Plato and Aristotle, and I was only just discovering Popper. I had no problem with evolution or the discoveries of cosmology or the rest of science, I felt that a literal interpretation of the bible was trivialising what God must be. What exactly God was or meant remained a mystery, but I liked the mysteries. Meanwhile, at university I had the first decent exposure to arguments from atheists. At first I think I made more of an impression on them than they on me, because they weren't really attacking Christianity as I knew it and I was the thoughtful type. I'm glad to say I didn't convert anyone. It was not my intention to anyway.

I got to know some more informed freethinkers. (Now I loath the term "non-Christian" with its negative connotations. It is like calling a woman a "non-man" as if it is a defect!). I was perturbed that I could not give an adequate coherent account of even the basics of Christianity. Why was the atonement necessary, and how does it work? [1] It seemed very weak when analysed by an outsider and was disturbing to find how easily I could be made to flounder. I was also perturbed to discover something of the history of Christianity, such that an interpretation as a human phenomena should sound so convincing and plausible when confronted with the evidence. However, since I was not well read enough at the time, I was cautious. I didn't want to lose my faith because I read or heard something convincingly deconverting when a Christian source could have explained in a Christian way for me if I had only searched better. So I resolved to read Bertrand Russell et al, but not yet. I needed Christian ammo. (Note I didn't give the opposite scenario a thought, that I might be hoodwinked into Christianity!)

I was also becoming more worried by the cruel things in the bible. Especially the unpleasant things said by Jesus [2]. I could only assume that they didn't mean what they sounded like, but it was disturbing that they were there at all. Also, I almost deconverted whilst at university due to what seemed a more coherent explanation of Christianity as a human phenomenon. I was kept back though by the feeling that as Thomas Merton said "by denying God we are denying ourselves." If I wasn't a Christian I would be missing something important in life, therefore there had to be something in it. I finished my degree and got a job.

I read veraciously. I got through Bonhoeffer, all of C.S. Lewis, G.K Chesterton, "the cloud of unknowing," Thomas à Kempis and other classics, as many of the archbishop of Canterbury's lent books as I could find, as well as swallowing a concordance and assorted Christian books whose names now escape me. I also joined an evangelical church! Although not really my scene, I actually found it quite exciting when I tried it out. I was struck by how strongly the people there really believed in their religion. I had not encountered that strength of belief before. The people I got to know best (my "home group") were very pleasant and relaxed, and seemed pretty liberal. As Christianity became more central, I noticed a feeling in me that I didn't like. When I was a younger teenager and religion was just one of the things I was interested in, it did not particularly impinge on how I felt about other people. Most of the time I wasn't thinking about religion at all. In contrast, by my late teens and early twenties Christianity became central and it made a difference to how I perceived someone if they weren't a Christian. I felt I had a special relationship with God through accepting Christ. This was a barrier to people that I became more aware of, but didn't appreciate the full significance of until I deconverted.

Although avoiding explicitly anti-Christian books, I noticed things in novels and everyday conversations that caused me to think. I remember putting some books down after every paragraph and trying to figure out how I could reconcile that to Christian belief. I read many books of apologetics in an attempt to understand.

Some of my freethinking friends were so pleasant, kind and moral and yet completely against Christianity that the condemnation of nonbelievers in the bible and at church really upset me. One night I even dreamt that I was told to "pray for a better God!" (How's that for a paradox?!)

Eventually I bit the bullet. I felt that I had to be allowed (by God) to examine the other side of the argument. I trusted him to help me come to a deeper faith if he was there. If he wasn't there then maybe I would find that out. I put myself in his hands to stop me being misled. I also kept a journal all through this period which makes a fascinating (for me) insight into my deconversion. I read books on the psychology of religion and the history of Christianity from as neutral as possible sources. Meanwhile I had an (almost) "deconversion experience."

One of my main anchors in Christianity was the feeling that without it we are missing something important. I was at a rehearsal of the Brahms German Requiem. Though not an atheistic work, the genius and humanity at the great achievement of Brahms came through to me and coupled with this was the disaster of death and the cessation of being. It struck me suddenly that to be such a deeply conscious aware human being in life and then to "not exist" is a far more powerful thing than an afterlife or anything God could do. The heroism and tragedy of human life which is so marvellous and yet is capable of ending had a very big impact on me. It was partly the feeling that the universe had created something greater than itself - conscious, aware, striving man who is doomed after a short spell of the miracle of awareness to complete oblivion. The power and impact of such a thought (this is the important bit of the experience that really got me thinking) was completely lost if God existed, or was even thought to exist, which really struck me as remarkable. This was really very shocking and disturbed me very much. It seemed to me that death is one of the most natural things for living beings and it is something which is denied us by many religions. It places a special dignity on human conscious life - aware and striving - and so vulnerable!

I had thought that we only become fully human by believing in God, and now one of the deepest human experiences was only possible for me if I didn't believe in God, or at least didn't believe in the afterlife. How could this be?

I read Karen Armstrong's "Tongues of fire" and was shocked. I found here people of all creeds and none having all the deep numinous, spiritual and loving experiences that I thought were the province of Christianity. I also saw in the commentary a psychologically convincing description of the early Christians (especially St. Paul). I had by this time read much psychology and history. It was starting to piece together. Next, I read Russell's "Why I am not a Christian." When I came to the passage where Russell says that Christ had a serious moral defect, he believed in hell - my stomach churned. I felt that too but had never dared even mentally expressing it. How was I to love a God who divides sheep from goats and condemns those I love and understand?

It seems to me now that the idea of hell [2] is so disgusting that it makes a mockery even of the most terrible horrors of WW2. For people to believe in it or even seriously entertain the idea makes me wonder if we have learnt anything about human compassion, cruelty and our real needs. It really seems to me that the idea is so vindictive and abhorrent that it is a very serious moral defect for anyone to believe in it with any kind of understanding of what it means. The fact that the church throughout the ages and that Jesus and St. Paul even entertained the idea, really makes it hard for me to believe them to be anything more than men caught up in the religious ideas of their time. I honestly cannot believe that anyone, not even God, has the right to send people to hell or even allow people to believe in it with such conviction. I do not think I will ever believe that the butchering guards at Dachau, Buchenwald, Mauthausen, Auschwitz and the like were actually perfect and that what they did to Jews, gypsies and homosexuals is justice which I will someday have revealed to me as right. Neither do I think that I will ever believe that a God who lets this happen (and natural disasters) is perfect and I will realise when I meet him that "all will be well" and it is right that people go to hell. How more offensive and ignorant can a religion be?! Far too many people believe in hell. It is a dreadful and dark thing that makes people believe in holy damnation. The fact that Jesus, as depicted in the gospels, believed in hell is to me such a serious religious problem that it was one of the things that finally broke up my Christianity. What was going on in this book! As a liberally natured Christian I had never really believed in the existence of hell, or at least I shied away from hell thoughts, as it did not fit with my idea of a loving God. Rather I thought all this hell talk must mean something else. But the problem was that there was so much of it in the NT and the fact that God seemed to allow the doctrine to be so popular within the church did bother me very much, as did the fact that if Jesus & St. Paul etc. really didn't believe in literal hell then the fact that they didn't make it abundantly transparent that they meant something else was just utterly culpable irresponsibility to me, so abhorrent is the merest sniff of that doctrine and so dreadful the consequences of Christians believing it down the ages. [2]

This was the last straw. I had already found so much in philosophy, [3] psychology [4], history [5], biblical criticism and comparative religion that raised such serious questions for religious beliefs that eventually the bubble had to burst. Like suddenly seeing the solution to a mathematical problem that has so far been intractable and is now totally clear, I realised that Christianity and my feelings were all the results of messy human history, sociology and our psychological tangle with all its desire, hopes and fears. I didn't choose to suddenly believe this. It was just inescapable. I had allowed myself to ask if Christianity made more sense, and was at least equally rich if it was not of God, and overwhelmingly this was what I found. Neither did Christianity seem truly good. I summed it up at the time by saying that religion is "human and natural, not divine and supernatural."

At first I was upset, but then I became amazed at the fact that this gigantic edifice of Christianity, with all the enormous cathedrals, music, books, missionaries, martyrs, people giving lives to prayer, (crusades, inquisitions), etc. were based on a misunderstanding of the world!! The enormity of this was incredible to me. I felt that I must let everybody know, especially as I was in a position to talk about it since I had known what it was like from the inside. I decided to do some research and read in every spare moment due to this incredible interest in what was going on! [6] I read more Bertrand Russell, William James "Varieties of religious experience" (fascinating!), Tolstoy's "Confessions", more history and Psychology, existentialism [7], Hume, Nietzsche, Jung, Don Cupitt, even theology, working my way through the city library, and buying heaps of books. Later I discovered Thomas Paine, T.H. Huxley, J.B.S. Haldane and Robert Ingersol.

Due to my total change of world view I also had some very weird experiences that were not like anything I had expected. I was struck enormously by what I called "existential shock." I was completely amazed at the mere fact of existence. Not in a "wow that's impressive" manner but in a feeling that I only had religious words for. It was being struck by the amazing "sacrament" of life - or the utter shock and opportunity of existence over its alternative. It was totally numinous and an almost disturbing feeling that existence is the case. I felt transformed, awed, excited - the whole world seemed more special than can ever be said. Life was far more poignant without Christianity than it had ever been with it. I was not expecting this to happen to me. I thought these experiences were what converted people to religion, not what you got when you left! I soon found two books by Marghanita Laski describing such experiences felt by others, again from all creeds and none. I have since found friends who have similar perceptions. They are not unlike some of the poems by Thomas Traherne (e.g. "Wonder") or the experiences described by Huxley in the "Doors of perception". These experiences happen to the religious, the nonreligious and the drugged! [8] All these experiences were human, and all the more amazing for it.

All the problems and clutter associated with religion disappeared of course, though I won't pretend it was easy explaining my new position to my Christian friends. (Some still don't know). Just as others have reported in ex-tian stories, when I told my Christian friends they were only interested in finding out where I had gone wrong. The chance that I had honestly discovered something was not admitted as a possibility. Apparently I caused a stir and comments like "Jesus predicted that some would fall by the wayside". How's that for love and understanding from people you thought you where sharing deep things with before? I even had one of them trying to justify hell to me about six years after my deconversion. What can you say to that? [2] I have found now a far wider understanding of the world as I no longer rationalise all my thoughts in notebooks into a "Christian" interpretation of the world around me without having the grace or charity to find out what the facts were and to think unhindered about what is going on. That is also why I prefer to call myself a "freethinker", as that is how I feel I am. An "atheist" has negative connotations and it seems absurd to define oneself by relation to something that doesn't exist.

The greatest benefit I discovered was the disappearance of a spiritual barrier for me between people. When I had strong religion, my feeling was that if someone did not know God, then they where "not yet fully human" (though I did the best to not think this, it was there). A "non-Christian" was "spiritually misguided" and it was impossible to properly relate to or feel for such a person. I was in a "spiritually superior state". Now I see Christians just as people but with a mistaken belief, just like I may disagree with someone's politics, in that it doesn't mean I am in a different relationship to God (or Jesus) than them! There is a big difference between disagreeing with someone and thinking your relationship with a deity is different. I now see us all as vulnerable human beings full of hopes and fears and psychological tangle. The relief from religious problems and the fresh perception of a world I had hardly seen before, and the real ability to accept people deep down has made me very happy. For me there came a feeling of all people and nature being in the same boat together, a feeling deep down of "brotherliness" and most of all a sense of complete understanding and acceptance of life. From all this came great compassion for our messy human situation and remarkable connection with a world that I finally felt I understood. None of this is what I had expected to find and I was completely shocked to find so much spiritual love outside of religion. (Karen Armstrong points out that nontheistic Buddhists describe belief in God as "unskilful," as it can actually harm the spiritual life of a person).

Does someone want to convert me back? What can I say! Who should respond to anything as deep as "God" through fear of what God might do to them, or not give them if they don't believe it? Christianity, taken completely seriously, is a travesty of what we can be. What is most primordial for a Christian? Is it love and truth, or is it Christianity? If a Christian researched enough to find a conflict between love and truth versus the beliefs of Christianity which way should that person go?

I had been taught that you can only love God if you love your neighbour. It is ironic that I found I could only love my neighbour if I didn't love God.

Steve Locks

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