Fall of The Roman Empire


The Decline of the Roman Empire, also called the Fall of the Roman Empire, or the Fall of Rome, is a historical term of periodization for the end of the Western Roman Empire. Edward Gibbon, in his famous study The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (1776), was the first to use this terminology, but he was neither the first nor the last to speculate on why and when the Empire collapsed. "From the eighteenth century onward," Glen W. Bowersock has remarked,[1] "we have been obsessed with the fall: it has been valued as an archetype for every perceived decline, and, hence, as a symbol for our own fears." It remains one of the greatest historical questions, and has a tradition rich in scholarly interest. In 1984, German professor Alexander Demandt published a collection of 210 theories on why Rome fell, and the number of new theories since then has only increased.[2]

The traditional date of the fall of the Roman Empire is September 4, 476 when Romulus Augustus, the last Emperor of the Western Roman Empire was deposed by Odoacer. Modern historians question the relevance of this date,[3] as the Ostrogoths who succeeded considered themselves as upholders of the direct line of Roman traditions, and noting, as Gibbon did, that the Eastern Roman Empire was going from strength to strength and continued until the Fall of Constantinople in 29 May 1453. Some other notable dates are the Battle of Adrianople in 378, the death of Theodosius I in 395 (the last time the Roman Empire was politically unified), the crossing of the Rhine in 406 by Germanic tribes after the withdrawal of the legions in order to defend Italy against Alaric I, the death of Stilicho in 408, followed by the disintegration of the western legions, the death of Justinian I, the last Roman Emperor who tried to reconquer the west, in 565, and the coming of Islam after 632. Many scholars maintain that rather than a "fall", the changes can more accurately be described as a complex transformation.[4] Over time many theories have been proposed on why the Empire fell, or whether indeed it fell at all.

Everybody can be great... because anybody can serve. You don't have to have a college degree to serve. You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve. You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.  


Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr

Original Post
I'm referring to the use of latin of course. The court systems use terms like "res ipsa locutor" and "quid pro quo". The medical and scientific establishments use latin names for diseases, plants, medications etc, and certain religious groups still have latin incantations in some traditions. There is even a noneuropean group of people referred to as "latinos". If the empire fell something like, 1600 yrs ago, why does its influence still persist today?
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
I'm referring to the use of latin of course. The court systems use terms like "res ipsa locutor" and "quid pro quo". The medical and scientific establishments use latin names for diseases, plants, medications etc, and certain religious groups still have latin incantations in some traditions. There is even a noneuropean group of people referred to as "latinos". If the empire fell something like, 1600 yrs ago, why does its influence still persist today?


Short answer:

1. Latin is the parent language of an entire family of modern languages: including Spanish, Italian, French, Portuguese, and Romanian - the "Romance" languages. The Spanish, French, and Portuguese, in particular, were colonizers.

2. French moreover had a tremendous influence on the development of English in the wake of the Norman invasion (circa 1066 AD). In fact, the language we currently speak is full of Latin influence of which we are largely unaware. Even the word "language" is of Latin origin - lingua is Latin for "tongue".

3. Latin is the language of the Roman Catholic church which has had a significant global influence, particularly in the Americas. It is largely through the retention of Latin by the Catholic church, the fact that it was the dominant religious body in Europe for more than a millennium (up until the Reformation), and its influence on the general institutional life of Europe ... that Latin became the language of the "educated" - and hence the language which informed the development of law and medicine in the west. Even the words "education", "medicine", and "legal" are of Latin origin.
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:
fro Very good summary....my brotha! hat Sweet and to the point. fro
yeah

The story of the English language is pretty fascinating to me, especially this aspect. It's all about the Norman French who conquered England in 1066. First, this was during the Middle Ages, when Europeans saw the Roman Empire as the glory days. Second, the Normans were Norse men who endedup settling in Normandy, in France, in what once was the Roman Empire. They were all too eager to become "Romanized," so they took on that culture as their own and were all too proud. Kinda sounds familiar in a way...

So with this mindset, they conquered England, and the King of the Normans created the land ownership system we use today in order to pay the soldiers. Of course, this rendered the Anglo-Saxons as peasants, and the Normans as the land owning aristocratic class. Since the Norman French saw the Anglo-Saxons as backward and uncultured compared to them, and since they saw the Old English language as guttural and primitive, you see a lot of their words infiltrating the language.

They had a lot of words for fine distinctions for things; for example, in Old English the word "board" meant board and it meant table. The Normans were like, "No, you savages... once you put legs underneath ze board, it become a table!"

Ancient Anglo-Saxon words for the various sexual and excretory functions have been relegated to the status of vulgarity and profanity today. A peasant Anglo-Saxon wench had a "konte," but refined Norman women possessed genitalia, and the various words to denote specific elements within it.

Eventually, the Anglo-Normans and Anglo-Saxons became one, but that class mentality is still firmly embedded, and lives on today. Culture has a lot to do with it, though. When I was a kid, I occasionally heard adults say how we should say "perspire" (Latin-based) instead of "sweat" (Old English). But in America, where the folklore of "hard work" is beaten into us, that probbaly never really caught on. between that and the fitness craze, "sweating" is seen in our culture as a virtue.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
I'm referring to the use of latin of course. The court systems use terms like "res ipsa locutor" and "quid pro quo". The medical and scientific establishments use latin names for diseases, plants, medications etc, and certain religious groups still have latin incantations in some traditions. There is even a noneuropean group of people referred to as "latinos". If the empire fell something like, 1600 yrs ago, why does its influence still persist today?


Short answer:

1. Latin is the parent language of an entire family of modern languages: including Spanish, Italian, French, Portuguese, and Romanian - the "Romance" languages. The Spanish, French, and Portuguese, in particular, were colonizers.



This is pitiful to admit, but I recall back in high school I had a teacher who said that the romance languages are thus named due to the "romantic" (i.e. lovely) sound of the words vs. the hard or gutteral sound of other languages like german. I can't believe i fell for that. bs

Later, i had professors in college to say that latin is used in science due to the fact that Latin is a "dead language" as in unchanging because no one really speaks this language conversationally anymore.

Recently i was reading some other stuff which had a lot of legal terms in it and came across info about how the Roman soldiers spoke a "vulgar latin" which became the language of trade in all the lands they conquered and thus French has latin words because of roman soldiers, Spain has latin words because of roman soldiers, and the same is true of Romania and Portugal.

On a side note, i have a sibling who teases peep by latinizing nonsense words like pumpkinhead by saying

"from the latin pumpkinhead-are, meaning large round head"

I heard Denzel break down "adore" this way in Malcolm X

(Adore, from the latin, adorare, meaning love or worship)

I find it supremely sneaky of the long dead roman society that their language is still widely used today.

sneaky but fascinating!
It's the system we use today. That much I learned in law school; the government (in the US, that means the state government) essentially is the sovereign "owner" of all the land in its borders. The people who buy land are actually buying a "bundle of rights" to the use and enjoyment of the property. That's why they constitutionally have the right to tax your property. The terms we use in real estate transactions today all came from this system established back then. Fee simple, reversions, leaseholds, easements, and all of that, all originated in the wake of William the Conqueror's quandary over how to pay the soldiers who helped him take England. It was time to pay up, but all he had was the land. But he couldn't give them the land as they apparently understood that at the time, because he had just conquered it for his own use; it would have defeated the whole purpose. The system he came up with allowed him to maintain control and wealth while at the same time hooking up his boys.
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:
fro Very good summary....my brotha! hat Sweet and to the point. fro
yeah

The story of the English language is pretty fascinating to me, especially this aspect. It's all about the Norman French who conquered England in 1066. First, this was during the Middle Ages, when Europeans saw the Roman Empire as the glory days. Second, the Normans were Norse men who endedup settling in Normandy, in France, in what once was the Roman Empire. They were all too eager to become "Romanized," so they took on that culture as their own and were all too proud. Kinda sounds familiar in a way...

So with this mindset, they conquered England, and the King of the Normans created the land ownership system we use today in order to pay the soldiers. Of course, this rendered the Anglo-Saxons as peasants, and the Normans as the land owning aristocratic class. Since the Norman French saw the Anglo-Saxons as backward and uncultured compared to them, and since they saw the Old English language as guttural and primitive, you see a lot of their words infiltrating the language.

They had a lot of words for fine distinctions for things; for example, in Old English the word "board" meant board and it meant table. The Normans were like, "No, you savages... once you put legs underneath ze board, it become a table!"

Ancient Anglo-Saxon words for the various sexual and excretory functions have been relegated to the status of vulgarity and profanity today. A peasant Anglo-Saxon wench had a "konte," but refined Norman women possessed genitalia, and the various words to denote specific elements within it.

Eventually, the Anglo-Normans and Anglo-Saxons became one, but that class mentality is still firmly embedded, and lives on today. Culture has a lot to do with it, though. When I was a kid, I occasionally heard adults say how we should say "perspire" (Latin-based) instead of "sweat" (Old English). But in America, where the folklore of "hard work" is beaten into us, that probbaly never really caught on. between that and the fitness craze, "sweating" is seen in our culture as a virtue.


Fascinating...
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
Like I said, I find this history extremely fascinating. It's amazing how English went from something like "Mōdcræftige. Swearte. Geferscipe" to "Intelligent. Black. Community." (translation from http://wandership.ca/projects/eow/)



I'm going to take a guess.

"Mōdcræftige" probably shares a root with our word "crafty".


I just looked it up:

crafty |ˈkraftē| adjective (craftier , craftiest)
1 clever at achieving one's aims by indirect or deceitful methods : a crafty crook faked an injury to escape from prison.

"¢ of, involving, or relating to indirect or deceitful methods : a shameless and crafty trick to mislead public opinion.

2 informal of, involving, or relating to the making of decorative objects and other things by hand : a market full of crafty pots and interesting earrings.

DERIVATIVES craftily |-təlē| adverb craftiness noun

ORIGIN Old English cræftig [strong, powerful,] later [skillful]


Also there is the German "Kraft"
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
Like I said, I find this history extremely fascinating. It's amazing how English went from something like "Mōdcræftige. Swearte. Geferscipe" to "Intelligent. Black. Community." (translation from http://wandership.ca/projects/eow/)



I'm going to take a guess.

"Mōd-cræftige" probably shares a root with our word "crafty".


I just looked it up:

crafty |ˈkraftē| adjective (craftier , craftiest)
1 clever at achieving one's aims by indirect or deceitful methods : a crafty crook faked an injury to escape from prison.

"¢ of, involving, or relating to indirect or deceitful methods : a shameless and crafty trick to mislead public opinion.

2 informal of, involving, or relating to the making of decorative objects and other things by hand : a market full of crafty pots and interesting earrings.

DERIVATIVES craftily |-təlē| adverb craftiness noun

ORIGIN Old English cræftig [strong, powerful,] later [skillful]


Also there is the German "Kraft"



And check this out:

mood |moōd|
noun
a temporary state of mind or feeling : he appeared to be in a very good mood about something.
"¢ an angry, irritable, or sullen state of mind : he was obviously in a mood.
"¢ the atmosphere or pervading tone of something, esp. a work of art : Monet's "Mornings on the Seine" series, with their hushed and delicate mood.

adjective [ attrib. ]
(esp. of music) inducing or suggestive of a particular feeling or state of mind : mood music | a Chekhov mood piece.

PHRASES
in the mood for (or to do) something feeling like doing or experiencing something : if you're in the mood for an extra thrill, you can go paragliding.
in no mood for (or to do) something not wanting to do or experience something : she was in no mood for sightseeing.

ORIGIN Old English mōd (also in the senses [mind] and [fierce courage] ), of Germanic origin; related to Dutch moed and German Mut.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:


ORIGIN Old English mōd (also in the senses [mind] and [fierce courage] ), of Germanic origin; related to Dutch moed and German Mut.


Oh, okay, and "kraftig" in german means powerful... "Mōdcræftige" = powerful-minded.
A good rule of thumb is that if an English word has one syllable it is probably of Germanic origin (although there are exceptions ... like "art"). If it has three or more syllables it has a good chance of being Latin or Greek. This rule becomes more accurate if you don't include prefixes, suffixes, or compounds in the syllable count.
LATIN-

is named for the area around the Tiber river where latin speakers settled, LATIUM


Latin is a member of the Italic languages and its alphabet is based on the Old Italic alphabet, derived from the Greek alphabet. In the 9th or 8th century BC Latin was brought to the Italian peninsula by the migrating Latins who settled in Latium, around the River Tiber, where Roman civilization would develop. During those early years Latin came under the influence of the non-Indo-European Etruscan language of northern Italy.

Although surviving Roman literature consists almost entirely of Classical Latin, the actual spoken language of the Western Roman Empire was Vulgar Latin, which differed from Classical Latin in grammar, vocabulary, and (eventually) pronunciation.

Although Latin long remained the legal and governmental language of the Roman Empire, Greek became the dominant language of the well-educated elite, as much of the literature and philosophy studied by upper-class Romans had been produced by Greek (usually Athenian) authors. In the eastern half of the Roman Empire, which would become the Byzantine Empire after the final split of the Eastern and Western Roman Empires in 395, Greek eventually supplanted Latin as the legal and governmental language; and it had long been the lingua franca of most Eastern citizens (of all classes)
ON a side note

a couple of years back I noticed that guitar god Carlos Santana began to refer to himself as INDIGENI, rather than LATINO or HISPANIC. from a self identity perspective it makes sense

LATINO is a word which evokes the imagery of Roman domination and Roman culture... 19
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
The story of the English language is pretty fascinating to me, especially this aspect. It's all about the Norman French who conquered England in 1066. First, this was during the Middle Ages, when Europeans saw the Roman Empire as the glory days. Second, the Normans were Norse men who endedup settling in Normandy, in France, in what once was the Roman Empire. They were all too eager to become "Romanized," so they took on that culture as their own and were all too proud. Kinda sounds familiar in a way...


Weren't they already of Romanized? They came from Gaul/France as you said which had been under Roman rule since the fifth century. They were orignally west Germanic tribes (Frankish) mixed with Gallo-Roman (france/Gaul) bloodlines.

This is interesting stuff, I love history.

Good thread.
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
QUESTION: Why are Italians, Frencn, or Romanian speakers NOT being referred to as "LATINO" since their language is derived from the Roman's lingua, latin????


quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
a couple of years back I noticed that guitar god Carlos Santana began to refer to himself as INDIGENI, rather than LATINO or HISPANIC. from a self identity perspective it makes sense

LATINO is a word which evokes the imagery of Roman domination and Roman culture... 19



I had to check Wikipedia on that one. One thing it had to say:

quote:


Re: Latino

Nevertheless, some authorities of American English maintain a distinction between the terms "Hispanic" and "Latino":

"Though often used interchangeably in American English, Hispanic and Latino are not identical terms, and in certain contexts the choice between them can be significant. Hispanic, from the Latin word for "Spain," has the broader reference, potentially encompassing all Spanish-speaking peoples in both hemispheres and emphasizing the common denominator of language among communities that sometimes have little else in common. Latino"”which in Spanish means "Latin" but which as an English word is probably a shortening of the Spanish word latinoamericano"”refers more exclusively to persons or communities of Latin American origin. Of the two, only Hispanic can be used in referring to Spain and its history and culture; a native of Spain residing in the United States is a Hispanic, not a Latino, and one cannot substitute Latino in the phrase the Hispanic influence on native Mexican cultures without garbling the meaning. In practice, however, this distinction is of little significance when referring to residents of the United States, most of whom are of Latin American origin and can theoretically be called by either word."


quote:


The term Latino is rejected by some, for various reasons. It is rejected by some indigenists who state that Native American 'Latinos' are disappropriated from their Native American origins and histories by the application of what they consider a racist, Eurocentric term that improperly associates people of different races, i.e. associating both the Spanish colonizers and the indigenous inhabitants, especially the descendants of both groups, as the same ethnic group.



quote:


Latino (feminine latina) in the Romance languages, such as Italian, Portuguese, and Spanish, literally translates as "Latin". For example, Portuguese dictionaries define the demonym latino to refer to natives of Romance-speaking nations influenced by Roman civilization, and to the natives or inhabitants of ancient Latium (modern Lazio). Italian dictionaries define the demonym latino as the ancient Latins and Romans, and their language, Latin. The dictionary of the Real Academia Española defines ten meanings for latino. In these languages, latino, just like any other gentilic, is by convention not capitalized.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latino
quote:
Originally posted by ac9311:
Here is a couple more words from the Latin

Kaiser - from Caesar

Czar or Tzar - also from Caesar

All meaning emperor


Words of Germanic origin (together with closely related words in modern German):


mother (Ger, Mutter)

father (Ger, Vater)

brother (Ger, Bruder)

sister (Ger, Schwester)

son (Ger, Sohn)

daughter (Ger, Tochter)

bread (Ger, Brot)

eat (Ger, essen)

drink (Ger, trinken)

wife (Ger, weib ... related, but quite different in meaning)

water (Ger, Wasser)

fire (Ger, Feuer)

sun (Ger, Sonne)

house (Ger, Haus)

school (Ger, Schule)

earth (Ger, Erde)

ground (Ger, grund)

shit (Ger, Scheisse)



Words of Latinate origin:

maternal

paternal

fraternal

solar

science

legislature

civilization

senate

medicine

doctor

college

university

professor

faculty

professional

government

congress

education

president

command

institution

prime

minister

administration

magistrate

judge

dictator

imperial

united

states
quote:
Originally posted by ac9311:
Weren't they already of Romanized? They came from Gaul/France as you said which had been under Roman rule since the fifth century. They were orignally west Germanic tribes (Frankish) mixed with Gallo-Roman (france/Gaul) bloodlines.


Actually, the Romans had quite a bit of England under its empire as well, but that was before the Anglo-Saxons got there. Brittania was the Roman province, and Londinium was the original site of today's London. The people there were Celts, and, of course, it wasn't called "England" yet, because the "English" weren't there yet.

Gaul, by the way, was also populated primarily by Celts during Roman times. After Rome "fell," the area became dominated by Germanic peoples, like the "Franks." I'm sure today's French probably have Celtic, Mediterranean as well as Germanic ancestry...

But the Normans specifically were Norse transplants. They were Vikings who settled in Normandy, well after Rome fell. Their Wikipedia entry says they arrived at Normandy in the 10th century (the 900s). I thought I remember it being a little sooner than that, but I'm no expert on the Normans, so I'll defer to Wikipedia. But the point is, they weren't in Normandy yet during the Roman period.
fro [Koco's raising her hand] two cents only... in terms of the connection between Latino and Hispanic. Depending on WHO [or WHOM]you're talking to. There are some who are [especially] from Mexico who considers themselves Latino...while there may be others from Central America and South America who also consider themselves Latino....I have met many Central and South Americans who consider themselves "Hispanic." A couple of years ago, a man from Spain called into a radio station to say that the term Hispanic is exclusively for those from Spain. I disagree cuz if you're from Spain then you are Spainard. I've also found [discovered through study] "Hispanics" are those individuals whose ancestors were Native Indians i.e. Amerindians RAPED by Spainards who invaded their regions and took over [much like what Massa did to the Amerindians in America] i..e. Aztec & Mayans [Mexico] and Inca [South America]. So to me it's all a matter of perspective and who [or whom] you're talking to. I've had parents tell me they consider themselves "Latino" based on the Latin culture which merged Mexico, Central and South America....as well as had people called themselves "Hispanics" based on the conqueroring[sp] of their people by Spain. Out of RESPECT, I ask FIRST cuz I don't want to insult anyone's culture and refer to them as something they reject. So that's it. Carry on brilliant brains...I"m learning sooooooo much! fro
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

school (Ger, Schule)




Correction:


"school" is also of Latin origin (and ultimately of Greek origin).

As is the word "scholastic".

The fact that modern German has the word "schule" probably reflects the influence of Latin upon the German language.
This is from a wikipedia article on English vocabulary:

quote:

The English vocabulary has changed considerably over the centuries.

Like many languages deriving from Proto-Indo-European, many of the most common words in English can trace back their origin (through Germanic) to PIE [Proto-Indo-European]. Such words include the basic pronouns I, originally ic, (cf. Latin ego, Greek ego, Sanskrit aham), me (cf. Latin me, Greek eme, Sanskrit mam), most of the basic numbers and ordinals (e.g. one, two, three, cf. Latin unus, duo, tres, Greek oios, duo, treis), names of cultivated or common animals like mouse (cf. Sankrit mus, Greek mys, Latin mus), and many common verbs such as know (cf. Greek gignōmi, Latin gnoscere, Hittite kanes).

Germanic words (generally words of Old English or to a lesser extent Norse origin) tend to be shorter than the Latinate words of English, and more common in ordinary speech. The longer Latinate words are often regarded as more elegant or educated. However, the excessive use of Latinate words is considered at times to be either pretentious (as in the stereotypical policeman's talk of "apprehending the suspect") or an attempt to obfuscate an issue. George Orwell's essay "Politics and the English Language" is critical of this, as well as other perceived abuses of the language.

An English speaker is in many cases able to choose between Germanic and Latinate synonyms: come or arrive; sight or vision; freedom or liberty. In some cases there is a choice between a Germanic derived word (oversee), a Latin derived word (supervise), and a French word derived from the same Latin word (survey). The richness of the language arises from the variety of different meanings and nuances such synonyms harbour, enabling the speaker to express fine variations or shades of thought. Familiarity with the etymology of groups of synonyms can give English speakers greater control over their linguistic register. See: List of Germanic and Latinate equivalents.

An exception to this and a peculiarity perhaps unique to English is that the nouns for meats are commonly different from, and unrelated to, those for the animals from which they are produced, the animal commonly having a Germanic name and the meat having a French-derived one. Examples include: deer and venison; cow and beef; swine/pig and pork, or sheep and mutton. This is assumed to be a result of the aftermath of the Norman invasion, where a French-speaking elite were the consumers of the meat, produced by English-speaking lower classes.

In everyday speech, the majority of words will normally be Germanic. If a speaker wishes to make a forceful point in an argument in a very blunt way, Germanic words will usually be chosen. A majority of Latinate words (or at least a majority of content words) will normally be used in more formal speech and writing, such as a courtroom or an encyclopedia article[citation needed]. However, there are other Latinate words that are used normally in everyday speech and do not sound formal; these are mainly words for concepts that no longer have Germanic words, and are generally assimilated better and in many cases do not appear Latinate. For instance, the words mountain, valley, river, aunt, uncle, move, use, push and stay are all Latinate.

English easily accepts technical terms into common usage and often imports new words and phrases. Examples of this phenomenon include: cookie, Internet and URL (technical terms), as well as genre, über, lingua franca and amigo (imported words/phrases from French, German, modern Latin, and Spanish, respectively). In addition, slang often provides new meanings for old words and phrases. In fact, this fluidity is so pronounced that a distinction often needs to be made between formal forms of English and contemporary usage.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

school (Ger, Schule)




Correction:


"school" is also of Latin origin (and ultimately of Greek origin).

As is the word "scholastic".

The fact that modern German has the word "schule" probably reflects the influence of Latin upon the German language.


That's a good point. Because of Rome's influence, a lot of Latin-derived words exist in non-Romance languages other than English anyway. The Germanic and Celtic tribes borrowed loan words from the Romans while the Roman Empire was around. But the influence in English, in particular, is directly the result of a "second wave" of influence that resulted from the "Norman French-speaking" Normans.
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
Actually, the Romans had quite a bit of England under its empire as well, but that was before the Anglo-Saxons got there. Brittania was the Roman province, and Londinium was the original site of today's London. The people there were Celts, and, of course, it wasn't called "England" yet, because the "English" weren't there yet.

Gaul, by the way, was also populated primarily by Celts during Roman times. After Rome "fell," the area became dominated by Germanic peoples, like the "Franks." I'm sure today's French probably have Celtic, Mediterranean as well as Germanic ancestry...

But the Normans specifically were Norse transplants. They were Vikings who settled in Normandy, well after Rome fell. Their Wikipedia entry says they arrived at Normandy in the 10th century (the 900s). I thought I remember it being a little sooner than that, but I'm no expert on the Normans, so I'll defer to Wikipedia. But the point is, they weren't in Normandy yet during the Roman period.


Can you say Hadrians wall which was built about 75 years after the Romans invaded Britain?

You are on it I'm diggin this.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by ac9311:
Here is a couple more words from the Latin

Kaiser - from Caesar

Czar or Tzar - also from Caesar

All meaning emperor


Keep it coming!! This is too cool.

Words of Germanic origin (together with closely related words in modern German):


mother (Ger, Mutter)

father (Ger, Vater)

brother (Ger, Bruder)

sister (Ger, Schwester)

son (Ger, Sohn)

daughter (Ger, Tochter)

bread (Ger, Brot)

eat (Ger, essen)

drink (Ger, trinken)

wife (Ger, weib ... related, but quite different in meaning)

water (Ger, Wasser)

fire (Ger, Feuer)

sun (Ger, Sonne)

house (Ger, Haus)

school (Ger, Schule)

earth (Ger, Erde)

ground (Ger, grund)

shit (Ger, Scheisse)



Words of Latinate origin:

maternal

paternal

fraternal

solar

science

legislature

civilization

senate

medicine

doctor

college

university

professor

faculty

professional

government

congress

education

president

command

institution

prime

minister

administration

magistrate

judge

dictator

imperial

united

states
quote:
The expansion of the Roman Empire spread Latin throughout Europe, and, eventually, Vulgar Latin began to dialectize, based on the location of its various speakers. Vulgar Latin gradually evolved into a number of distinct Romance languages, a process well underway by the 9th century. These were for many centuries only oral languages, Latin still being used for writing.
For example, Latin was still the official language of Portugal in 1296, after which it was replaced by Portuguese. Many of these "daughter" languages, including Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, Catalan, and Romansh, flourished, the differences between them growing greater and more formal over time.



Does this Wiki blurb mean that French, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, and Romanian were not written languages before Roman influence?

Europeans did not have WRITTEN language until Romans conquered them????

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