Ideal reparations.

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Originally posted by Frenchy:

Found this online:

I like the comic. It's funny !!!

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Originally posted by Frenchy:

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2b. Re-instatement of voting privileges for felons.

This would be nice. I shudder to think about what candidates will do to win "the Felon vote," but it would certainly force them to address some of the things they like to dance around (lack of rehabilitation in prison, unjust nature of mandatory sentencing, discrimination against those with prison records, etc). It seems it would at least be a start to repairing some of the damage the criminal justice system has done.

I would think that politicians would have to try to win the felon vote mainly by trying to apeal to the communities that those felons come from. I have no hard data to back this up, but suspect that the voting patterns of felons, to the extent that they would actually vote, would be pretty much in line with the voting patterns of the nonfelons from the same community.

The biggest effect of ending felony disfranchisement, however, might be the removal of a huge incentive to create felons.

For example, what would be the point of having 2/5's of all adult Black males in Florida be felons (to the nearest fifth) if it didn't result in the average adult Black male in Florida having 3/5's of a vote? (Again, to the nearest fifth.)

One way to decrease the number of felons is to remove the incentive to create felons.

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I would think that politicians would have to try to win the felon vote mainly by trying to apeal to the communities that those felons come from. I have no hard data to back this up, but suspect that the voting patterns of felons, to the extent that they would actually vote, would be pretty much in line with the voting patterns of the nonfelons from the same community.

I don't agree. A felon in any community does not have the same opportunities/lifestyle/state of mind as non-felons. Just spending time in prison alone would change one's ideas of what are pressing concerns in America. I did some volunteer work with an organization that wanted to bring attention to the reality of rape/sexual interaction in prison and I can say with a degree of certainty that that issue never crossed a good portion of those men's minds until they got to prison or got out of prison. I think they would also have some concerns about the probation/parole system that others in their community would not care a great deal about. They would be concerned about what kind of background checks or information could be held against them by a potential employer. They may concerned about the way a community is notified of their presence. Their criminal record impacts every portion of their life, from how they make a living to their general safety and I think they would demand that candidates address that in order to get their vote.

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For example, what would be the point of having 2/5's of all adult Black males in Florida be felons (to the nearest fifth) if it didn't result in the average adult Black male in Florida having 3/5's of a vote? (Again, to the nearest fifth.)

IMO, the lack of voting power is a "bonus" for the powers that be. The point of having so many felons is the booming prison industry and laziness/corruption of law enforcement. It's fairly easy to catch and prosecute the low-level man dealing drugs on the street corner until he has been charged with enough to make him permanently dependent on the prison industry. Even better if you can house inmates in such a way that will maximize aggressive behavior and create the need for more, more-expensive Super Duper Triple Duper Max prisons. It's job security for everyone from corrections officers to elected officials who can point to the fancy new prisons as a symbol of how "tough on crime" they are. Not allowing felons to vote is just another way of separating them from society when they leave the prison walls and driving them right back inside them.

Hello Frenchy,

Indeed, this is true. Felons lose many rights that the law abiding citizen take for granted. Although this reference is for Florida, many of the same issues are also exist in every state!

"Well look who it is, 'ghostwhitey'. and still playin that 'some of my best friends are black' act and thinking you tight with 'the brothers'. Betcha you the guy who tells all his white friends he's more of a 'black' expert than they are." by sergeant

.....and sergeant's analysis is very real folks, unlike the Conservative Caucasians who come straight out with their likes or dislikes, the typical liberal Caucasian can be very cunning, very deceptive, and sneaky, to the point you don't know where they stand, and when you find out, the results won't be in your best interest.

Better to be know where an individual is coming from, as it applies to that racist or conservative Caucasian, be it for or against you, than to have someone around who pretends to be a friend to Black people, as applied to liberal Caucasians, but actions prove otherwise!

....and this is why I do not put much credence in a ricardomath, because in many instances he chooses not to be truthful, or he makes statements that are misleading, which is very common as it concerns that Caucasian Liberal. Conservative Caucasians don't beat around the bush, you know where they are coming from. The typical Caucasian liberals choose not to present the truth.

It is no mystery, meaning it is a no brainer that a felon is not going to have the same rights and privileges guaranteed the law abiding!

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Originally posted by Frenchy:

Found this online:

Here are similar issues that can be associated with the cartoon as posted which will be used to deny reparations being paid for slavery.

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SLAVERY REPARATIONS:
A MISGUIDED MOVEMENT
Professor Peter H. Schuck
Yale Law School
JURIST Guest Columnist
Let us stipulate -- because it is manifestly true -- that American slavery was a horrendous crime and a moral abomination. Let us further stipulate that this crime had countless victims and that their descendants still experience adverse effects today, seven generations later. Finally, stipulate that our society subscribes to an ideal of corrective justice that recognizes a legal duty compelling wrongdoers to remedy wrongfully-caused losses and to surrender wrongfully-obtained gains. Does this require the payment of reparations by the federal government to. . .somebody? Does it justify such reparations?

My answer to both questions is no -- and not just because of uncertainty about who the "somebody" would be, although as we shall see this poses a serious practical problem. My objections to reparations fall into three general categories: instrumentalist, consequentialist, and horizontal equity.

Instrumentalist objections

By instrumentalist objections, I mean problems of a practical or administrative nature that would be created by any serious effort to move from the status quo to an effective and just reparations regime. By "serious effort," I mean one that takes full account of the practical requirements of implementation. I take up the meaning of "effective and just reparations regime" in the discussion of the consequentialist and horizontal equity objections.

It may seem churlish to begin with the practical or technical obstacles to engineering a solution. These problems will surely strike some reparations advocates as too small-bore and nit-picking to mention in the same breath with the moral project of reparations. But mention them we must, especially because of the project's moral purpose. As the saying goes, if one wills an end, then one also wills the necessary means to that end. Ought implies can. Means, moreover, are not merely instrumental to desired ends; often, they also have normative dimensions of their own that must be considered. Finally, when policies that are attractive in principle fail at the level of actual implementation, the policies themselves are discredited.

Here are just a few of the numerous implementation problems that a reparations law would need to solve.

First, how would it define the beneficiary class? Would it include all blacks in the U.S. or only those descended from slaves? If the former, what about immigrant blacks and how would "black" be defined in an increasingly multi-racial society? If the latter, what about descendants of free blacks?
Second, how would the beneficiaries prove their entitlement? Absent a clear definition of black (who would judge?) or reliable documentary evidence of descent (surely lacking in most cases), what presumptions would be accepted and how could they be rebutted?
Third, would beneficiaries have to show that American slavery caused their current condition? What if they would otherwise have been killed or enslaved by their African captors, or sold to non-American masters?
Fourth, should all taxpayers bear the cost of reparations, or only those descended from slaveowners or from those who lived in the slave states? The list of such technocratic questions - none of them fanciful - could be extended endlessly.
Consequentialist objections
The actual effects of a reparations program, of course, will depend partly on the answers to these and other instrumental questions and partly on developments about which we can only speculate. To inform this speculation, however, we can draw on some historical experience with reparations or quasi-reparations programs to suggest what we might expect of this one, even conceding as I readily do that each program is different in any number of ways. Consider four such programs: post-war reparations; the September 11 compensation fund; affirmative action; and the payments to Japanese internees. (Again, space permit only the briefest characterizations). The treaties ending World War I required the Central Powers, especially Germany, to pay war reparations to the victorious Allies. In fact, the payments were grudging, delayed, incomplete, and raised new conflicts. For this reason, the payments brought little satisfaction to the recipients and the bitterness it engendered among Germans was skillfully exploited by Hitler and, according to many historians, contributed to his political support. The post-World War II reparations that Germany paid to Israel, although criticized by many as insulting and inadequate "blood money," were far more successful and helped to launch the new state.

The September 11 compensation fund is still in its early stages, but certain patterns are already evident. Although Congress assumed that this catastrophe was as sui generis as any event could be, the precedent it set has already produced an expansion of the program to include the victims of other terrorist-related disasters such as Oklahoma City and the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. And while the relatively small share of the eligible families who have received their awards so far surely value them, many recipients complain that the compensation's failure to remedy their loss adequately has inflicted an additional dignitary harm and reopened painful wounds. Far from assuaging their suffering, it seems, monetization sometimes aggravates it -- no matter what compensation scheme is chosen.

Even though affirmative action does not entail direct payments for past discrimination, most supporters view it as a compensatory program; the greater economic opportunities it affords its beneficiaries do constitute a kind of reparations and are intended as such. After more than 30 years of affirmative action -- and my work on a comprehensive article on this subject in 20 Yale Law & Policy Review 1 (2002) -- several effects seem clear. (Many other effects, both good and bad, are more debatable).

First, the number of individuals who are now eligible for preferences dwarfs the group that they originally and most compellingly targeted -- the descendants of slaves and the victims of Jim Crow. Today, the eligible groups include other categories (women, Hispanics, Asians, and sometimes the disabled) as well as millions of immigrants of color whose ancestors did not experience slavery here.

Second, law's inherently technocratic modalities have tended to (literally) de-moralize affirmative action programs. By implementing preferences through a system of contestable definitions, measurements, sanctions, regulations, and litigation, the law has politicized, bureaucratized, and trivialized what was once a moral project. As I discuss below, this moral imperative can be served better in other ways.

Third, affirmative action's unpopularity, even among many members of the beneficiary groups, has created new barriers to inter-racial reconciliation and heightened the salience and divisiveness of race -- precisely the opposite of the advocates' originally goals.

The most attractive model for black reparations is the program for the Japanese interned during World War II. The program is very recent, of course, and I know of no analysis of its effects but let us assume that they have been altogether positive - that the recipients are satisfied by the federal government's contrition and compensation, while the program is causing other Americans to reflect on the lessons of that dark chapter of our history. Perhaps this putative success augurs well for a black reparations program but I doubt it, for reasons already discussed. The surviving Japanese internees are a relatively small, easily identifiable group of victims who had been harmed in specific ways by a discrete event limited in time and space. None of the instrumentalist objections mentioned above applies to this group; for example, the beneficiaries are the surviving victims themselves, not innumerable, far-flung, anonymous descendants up to seven generations removed from us.

The German compensation schemes for Holocaust victims and slave laborers are not a close model for black reparations either, for many of the same reasons that distinguish the Japanese internment program. These German schemes, moreover, resulted from the settlement of strong legal claims based on unjust enrichment of specific banks, insurers, employers, and other companies that inflicted calculable losses on specific individuals and families.

Horizontal equity

Justice and fairness demand that similar cases be treated alike. We all know that every case is different in some respect from every other case, that the criteria of factual relevance and similarity are neither self-evident nor self-defining, and that classifying cases into categories for purposes of comparison is often a matter of judgment. We also know that the victims of grave injustice -- slavery, the Holocaust, other genocides, enforced subordination -- often regard their suffering as distinctive, if not unique; they tend to resist the notion that the victims of other grave injustices suffered more or in ways more deserving of remedy. To cite an extreme and maudlin but perhaps revealing example, Daniel Jonah Goldhagen, in his book Hitler's Willing Executioners, argues that even slaves were treated as less "socially dead" (in Orlando Patterson's phrase) than Jews were in Germany during the Nazi period.

The competition for greatest victimhood is almost inevitable both for political reasons and for a legal one; standard equal protection doctrine invites such comparisons in order to determine the appropriate standard of review. This competition is not an edifying sight -- and not just because we lack a common metric for measuring and comparing injustices of this kind. It often descends into an ugly struggle for public resources, recognition, recrimination, and moral status among people who have already suffered enough and who should be the last to view injustice as a zero-sum game. Is slavery the greatest injustice in American history? Probably so, but I would not expect Native-Americans whose ancestors were systematically exterminated by the U.S. Army to readily cede the point. Were the indentured servants of the colonial period or the Chinese coolies of the nineteenth century more harshly treated or less deserving of reparations than the Japanese internees? What about the internees' Japanese ancestors who were not permitted to own farmland, marry whites, or enter professions? What about the Irish immigrants who were forced by hateful discrimination to live in conditions arguably as degraded as slave cabins? Should we view their whiteness as an emblem of privilege sufficient to redeem their long suffering without further recompense?

I do not know the answers to these questions -- or even how to think about answering them. There is much to be said (as equal protection doctrine allows) for taking one step at a time toward a more just society. My point, then, is not that giving reparations to the descendants of black slaves would require, legally or otherwise, that they be given to the descendants of liquidated Native-Americans or near-enslaved coolies, much less that the former should not be first in line. Rather, it is that the politics and psychology of the competition for victimhood will make it difficult to stop there, and that the very effort to justify this stopping point will arouse new bitterness and magnify existing feelings of injustice.

Conclusion

The movement for black reparations, however well-intended, is misguided. Indeed, it is perverse in its propensity to discredit the very ideal of corrective justice that it invokes, to aggravate bitterness rather than assuage it, and to make reconciliation more difficult. Our obligation now is to engage with and learn from the past, and then to move forward by turning the page. As we turn it, we must not forget that we are leaving behind an endless catalog of crimes, tears, and scars of the lash, of prejudice, and of poverty. We must leave this human misery and injustice behind, but not out of mind or conscience. We already have a long agenda to challenge our moral faculties and remedial imaginations as we assess our responsibilities to one another both now and in the future.

Peter H. Schuck is the Simeon E. Baldwin Professor of Law at Yale, and author of the forthcoming Diversity in America: Keeping Government at a Safe Distance (Harvard/Belknap, April 2003) and The Limits of Law: Essays on Democratic Governance (Westview, 2000).
December 9, 2002

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Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

My how we love our KANGAROO COURTS in America. Reflexively, I say (because this is getting boringly old):

WHITE AMERICANS with respect to REPARATIONS, for one, (and the general public for that matter) amount to:

(1) Hostile Witnesses;
(2) Prejudice Jurors; or
(3) The Defendant/violator/perpetrator/offender (by default or vicariousness...

WHITE AMERICANS with respect to REPARATIONS are in no wise:

(1) The Impartial Judge; nor
(2) The Advocate/Counsel for African-Americans

So, especially with respect WHO this and WHO that (questions of WHO QUALIFIES? and WHO Will Decide Who Qualifies?), as we see, WHITE AMERICANS have NO SAY nor do they have a legitimate ROLE in a Legitimate Restitution Process. No matter how strong their EMOTIONS, how much they want to oppose REPARATIONS in their assorted yet still flawed (and specious) ways, nowhere in a Legitimate Restitution Process do they have a say -- except maybe in defense of their collective selves, both their history and practice that brings us to this point.

That's it! They may testify on their behalf but they absolutely have NO SAY and no right to say shit about any of the decisions concerning REPARATIONS. From the pre-Implementation decisions to the actual MEANS and Mechanisms... THEY HAVE NO SAY!!

Theirs is to follow the COURT ORDERED JUSTICE and that's it! But if they are so sure REPARATIONS is "misguided" (juvenile emotional ass arguments) then let them step up to the plate and do what any person who feels like they are wrongly accused (or being otherwise railroaded): DEMAND THEIR DAY IN COURT To Prove Their Innocence and/or How Impossible Reparations Is.

That is, demand that their congressmen take up Rep. John Conyers Reparations Bill request. Have big, however long C-SPAN televised Congressional Hearings calling foward panels of expert witnesses... WHY IS WHITE AMERICA SO SCARED OF THAT?

Anyway...

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The movement for black reparations, however well-intended, is misguided. Indeed, it is perverse in its propensity to discredit the very ideal of corrective justice that it invokes, to aggravate bitterness rather than assuage it, and to make reconciliation more difficult.

Yes and we must always in every civil or criminal proceeding be sure not to make the VIOLATOR mad and resentful. The pure idiocy of attaching such emotional considerations to a process that's about JUSTICE.

This is the PERVERSITY OF WHITE SUPREMACY. The fact that African-Americans are legitimately "bitter" over the INJUSTICE is overruled and outweighted by the pending Psychic Trauma of WHITES having actually shatter their DRED SCOTT SYNDROME:

The Black Man (collectively) has no rights the White Man (collectively) was bound to respect.

Of course, Whites being mad about being on the Wrong Side Of Justice and their Emotional Fallout from it is suppose to be avoided at all costs. Their Brat-ish, hard feelings reign supreme over every consideration, even JUSTICE itself. If they don't like the outcome however JUST it is then, by White Privilege definition, no longer justice. Justice that dares find them on the Wrong Side of something they don't want to confront or concede is cruel and unusual. It runs counter to White Supremacy so how can they be expected to deal with it?

I mean, they will just explode right along with that MYTH. And we can't have that. White ANGER and Bitterness for one day (over being held accountable for "their" sins) is more precious than Black Injury/Damage-Rage for centuries. You know, their Emotional Reactions are exactly what everything that's anything in America must be tailored around.

White Anger is, then, more reputable (given more credence even in WRONG) than Black "Rage" even when JUSTified. Long Live the Perverse Doctrine Of White Supremacy. And not that David Duke stuff. Some of that Abe Lincoln "the superior position" is for Whites, WHITE SUPREMACY. Yes, that White Supremacy.

"They will feel bitter when Reparations are paid."

"Okay! Let's abort Reparations then!"

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My point, then, is not that giving reparations to the descendants of black slaves would require, legally or otherwise, that they be given to the descendants of liquidated Native-Americans or near-enslaved coolies, much less that the former should not be first in line. Rather, it is that the politics and psychology of the competition for victimhood will make it difficult to stop there...

Can we please lose these fallacious arguments. SLIPPERY SLOPES will get you nowhere.

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The Slippery Slope fallacy... postulates the truth of an opponent's position, and then tries to make the case that the opponent's position would lead to unacceptable consequences. [It] is illegitimate, however, because the consequences claimed are not actually logical consequences of the opponent's position.

http://www.cuyamaca.net/bruce.thompson/Fallacies/slippery.asp

Yes, dealing with all the LEGITIMATE claims against America is just "unacceptable"...

The consequences of the Shattered White Supremacy Ego too great!

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My list of what reparations must include.

1. 100 years of income tax exemption.

2a. 1 time get out of jail free cards.

2b. Re-instatement of voting privileges for felons. --Blaqfist

If this is the best you can do, no wonder so many black people are lost. I wonder why when then subject of reparations comes up, some black people are always looking to be given something instead of trying to figure out how to take control of their lives.

A wise man once said, "Instead of giving a man fish, you can teach him how to fish, however, what good does it do to know how to fish if the lake you're fishing in doesn't belong to you?"

Having your taxes waived is the same as being given money--most black people will still spend that money and bring themselves back to square one or worse because they would grow more impulsive with their spending--thinking they have a little more disposible income when, in reality, they still have the same debt as before.

As far as restoring the right to vote to felons--bad idea. First of all, voting was the last thing on most of these felons minds or they wouldn't have gotten thrown in prison to begin with. If you want to restore voting priveledges to felons then what would be the point of taking their voting priviledges from them to begin with?

As we have already seen in the last election, we know what can happen to convicted felons when they are in the process of having their voting priviledges re-instated. In Florida, even though hundreds of felons were so-called re-instated, they couldn't vote and the answer still isn't clear as to why hundreds of felons couldn't vote in the sunshine state.

I've already stated, more than once, what should be done with reparations but more importantly, we need to get back to the business of picking up where Martin Luther King Jr., and Thurgood Marshall left off--instead of achieving 'independence and self-sufficiency from racist institutions,' we need to implement strategies that will infultrate these 'racist institutions' and place more socially conscious blacks in these racist institutions.

Secondly, social wellness centers need to be created and placed in predominantly black areas--give the lower class a fighting chance. These centers would have social workers, legal aide, job placement services, affordable daycare and evening care for single mothers, affordable medical care with the use of students in their residency, as well as other social services that would be provided through participating churches, and hospitals.

This center would also have internship programs for college students, particularly, for students in the field of education, medicine, psyhology, and social work. Participating colleges and universities could revamp curriculum to require one or two semesters of intership in these centers.

Another factor we, as a people, have to confront is how to take control of the over 700 billion dollars we spend a year, consuming the products of these racist institutions like Nautica, Nike, Timberland, Tommy Hilfiger, not to mention a myriad of other corporations. At the very least, blacks could be educated on how to invest in the racist institutions they purchase numerous products from. For example, instead of paying 150 to 250 dollars on every new pair of shoes Nike comes out with, invest that money in Nike, and use the returns to pay for shoes instead of having to come out of your pocket for every purchase.

It's ideas like what I've mentioned that would not only solve the many socio-economic issues blacks are facing today, it would, thereby, create the independence and self-sufficienct base needed, and ensure stability after the reparations is enacted. To tell you the truth though, if reparations were to happen, it most certainly wouldn't happen in our lifetime and probably not in the lifetime of our children, which is why we should focus more on stablization rather than waiting for reparations to pull us out of the hole.

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I've already stated, more than once, what should be done with reparations but more importantly, we need to get back to the business of picking up where Martin Luther King Jr., and Thurgood Marshall left off--instead of achieving 'independence and self-sufficiency from racist institutions,' we need to implement strategies that will infultrate these 'racist institutions' and place more socially conscious blacks in these racist institutions.

Twisted, sad and counterintutive thinking.

What has been the overall result of this "Working Within The System", "Infiltrate The System" strategy?

Seriously, you talk about Black people who are "LOST"... While on the way to "Infiltrate" the system, "these racist institution"... too many African Americans have simply replicated or been use to replicate the same things the system was putting out when they entered them. Part of that being because it was the very "Racist System" that trained them that they deluded themselves into thinking they would "infiltrate" and change.

Well, one thing you don't get taught by your "enemy" is how to defeat him and when you leave it for your enemy to educate you and yours... suffice it to say your everyday training won't be one that prepares you for combat in every theatre on all terrain.

(Note: You used the word "infiltrate". You don't "infiltrate" the fortress of a friend...)

This is just delusional thinking. The "Infiltration" idea. As if "these racist institutions" are producing Socially Conscious Blacks. That runs counter to SYSTEM SURVIVAL, IronHorse. It is counterintuitive and just plain DELUSIONAL.

So, the objective is to change the dynamics. If not completely change these "racist institutions" then, of course, the goal is to eliminate or lessen the effect of them. Perhaps that can be mitigated by a few socially conscious persons (amongst a sea of people who aren't... as conscious)... But to EITHER OR this instead of BOTH AND this really only shows the stupidity of your ideology.

To work towards SELF-SUFFICIENCY (oh, that bad word!) and INDEPENDENCE from "these racist institutions" BY BUILD OUR OWN INSTITUTIONS that lessen our need to be overly exposed to "these racist institutions" by definition Changes The Dynamics and speaks directly about Fishing In Your Own Pond.

"Instead of giving a man fish, you can teach him how to fish, however, what good does it do to know how to fish if the lake you're fishing in doesn't belong to you?"

You are so confused...
Why do you contradict yourself so readily?
So easily?

To your "Infiltration" Fantasies... your Delusions: WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO?

Maybe you ought to get an understanding of the WISE statements you cite before Speaking Ignorance So Fluently from your fundamentally flawed ideology. Flawed because it runs counter to the very point of your WISE statement.

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It's ideas like what I've mentioned that would not only solve the many socio-economic issues blacks are facing today, it would, thereby, create the independence and self-sufficienct base needed, and ensure stability after the reparations is enacted.

Your suggestion about "INVESTING IN RACIST INSTITUTIONS" hardly deals with how to TAKE CONTROL of our Consumer Power. Such CONTROL requires, as the WISE STATEMENT suggested, that we have Our Own Pond/Lake.

Please note: A Lake is a whole network, a whole ecosystem unto itself. It is a system or institution that supports all manner of life in it by the very networks or food chains with in it.

So, "investing in racist institutions" is in no wise to acquistion of Our Own Pond. And to that idea of yours, I ask again: WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO?

Seriously, merely INVESTING... (not saying that shouldn't be done... I'm saying more should be) does little in terms of setting up an ECOSYSTEM, so to speak, whereby Black Dollars Are Recycled IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY. Yes, investing will yield a higher return but that's nowhere close to RECYCLING...

Building a Network Of Institutions that do, organically, is the only way. So, if anything, the approach to investing would be, IMO, to target certain businesses with an intent to become primary stockholders or better yet a network of businesses that can or do serve the various needs of our community. A Reverse Boycott principle...

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Having your taxes waived is the same as being given money--most black people will still spend that money and bring themselves back to square one or worse because they would grow more impulsive with their spending--thinking they have a little more disposible income when, in reality, they still have the same debt as before. ironhead

That must be that funny math I have heard of. Not paying income taxes means keeping all of the money you make; if we were to receive money, said money would come from an alternative source.
The other crap you were yapping about in regards to "impulsive spending" (yadda, yadda, yadda.), I have already addressed. Reparations are essentially a law suit, and as I stated in my 1st post on this thread..
"The defendant makes no demands on what the plaintiff should with the compensation he has won..The plaintiff can burn the money if he so desired.."

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As far as restoring the right to vote to felons--bad idea. First of all, voting was the last thing on most of these felons minds or they wouldn't have gotten thrown in prison to begin with. If you want to restore voting priveledges to felons then what would be the point of taking their voting priviledges from them to begin with? ironazz

You say some of the dumbest stuff! Voting ironazz, is a right, not a privilege. Even though you are in jail you still have your rights. The inequity of the suspension of voting rights to felons is a topic for another thread, but answer me this ironazz. Since felon's caint vote, should they still have to pay the same rate of income tax as everybody else? Because currently they still have to pay taxes for a government they have no input on.

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As we have already seen in the last election, we know what can happen to convicted felons when they are in the process of having their voting priviledges re-instated. In Florida, even though hundreds of felons were so-called re-instated, they couldn't vote and the answer still isn't clear as to why hundreds of felons couldn't vote in the sunshine state.
ironazz

You have no idea what you are talking about. Go read some more. I have read extensively on Florida 2000. I would be happy to give you links (valid ones) that would cure you of your ignorance on the subject.

EbonyRose was right, Nmaginate--you do suffer from hallucinosis. I am thouroughly convinced that you want to act like a vendictive, spiteful ex girlfriend because I clowned you and made you look like a fool in front of your rude, pretentious, arrogant, conceited friends. You aren't worth debating with because you compulsively seek to insult instead of offer any ideas, which is blatant in this quote:

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To work towards SELF-SUFFICIENCY (oh, that bad word!) and INDEPENDENCE from "these racist institutions" BY BUILD OUR OWN INSTITUTIONS that lessen our need to be overly exposed to "these racist institutions" by definition Changes The Dynamics and speaks directly about Fishing In Your Own Pond. --Nmaginate

Okay, so you want to build your own institution--WHAT IN THE HELL IS YOUR IDEA FOR OUR OWN INSTITUTION? What is it, fool?

I've already presented my idea of what type of institution we need to start with in predominantly black areas of people of low socio-economic status, so what is your idea? No, I don't want to see some link to somebody elses idea, I want to know your idea.

Let me re-emphasize the ignorant ambiguity in your train of thought:

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To work towards SELF-SUFFICIENCY (oh, that bad word!) and INDEPENDENCE from "these racist institutions" BY BUILD OUR OWN INSTITUTIONS --Nmaginate

This is why you're not worth a damn for debating with: you make generalized statements but you don't explain your ideas with concrete examples, yet your ignorant ass is busy throwing insults my way. Since you don't have the common sense to interact with me without being slanderous, I'm just going to have to pick your worthless argument apart, piece by piece.

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it was the very "Racist System" that trained them that they deluded themselves into thinking they would "infiltrate" and change. --Nmaginate

So, what you're saying, Nmaginate, is that Thurgood Marshall was wrong for single-handedly ending Jim Crow Laws, and talking President Johnson into relieving General Mcarthur from duty in order to desegregate the U.S. Army. So, what you're saying is Martin Luther King was wrong for leading the civil rights movement. Both of these men wanted desegregation.

Instead of wanting to increase the numbers of, as well as, improve the state and of already existing black schools, they chose, instead, to want to desegregate the white schools. They weren't running away from racist institutions, they were wanting to get inside these racist institutions but, by your definition, their thoughts was 'twisted and counterintutive.'

quote:

Well, one thing you don't get taught by your "enemy" is how to defeat him and when you leave it for your enemy to educate you and yours... suffice it to say your everyday training won't be one that prepares you for combat in every theatre on all terrain. --Nmaginate

This is another ignorant statement. While being educated in these 'racist institutions' especially when a person is at the collegiate level, it is up to the black student to educate themselves from an afrocultural perspective, if the college or university they're attending doesn't offer it in their curriculum or if they haven't recieved this informal afrocultural exposure along the way through elementary, middle school, and high schools. It's the same thing I've done--supplement my white dominated education with afrocultural courses and outside reading in libraries, and visiting black museums and archival institutions.

I made the choice to take what I learned from my so-called 'enemies' and use what I've learned to make myself more marketable as well as a more effective and employable individual--taking what I've learned from an afrocentric point of view and a caucasian point of view to increase the effectiveness of my skill in my profession.

It's the same thing what the majority of foreign college students around the world do when they educate themselves in America--they take what they have learned from better equipped institutions of higher learning and take the skills they've learned back to their homeland to better their own civilizations. Many of these foreigners hate America and most American citizens but they want that education from 'racist institutions' bad enough to come overseas to educate themselves.

quote:

So, the objective is to change the dynamics. If not completely change these "racist institutions" then, of course, the goal is to eliminate or lessen the effect of them. Perhaps that can be mitigated by a few socially conscious persons (amongst a sea of people who aren't... as conscious)... --Nmaginate

*slapping my head* See, this is also another reason why you're a worthless debator--you don't read the argument of the person that you're debating with. I already said socially conscious blacks should be placed in these 'racist institutions.'

quote:

Your suggestion about "INVESTING IN RACIST INSTITUTIONS" hardly deals with how to TAKE CONTROL of our Consumer Power.

Once again, idiot, not only have I given various ideas on stablizing the afro-economic base, you haven't given one damn idea of your own on how to take control of consumer power.

quote:

Building a Network Of Institutions that do, organically, is the only way. So, if anything, the approach to investing would be, IMO, to target certain businesses with an intent to become primary stockholders or better yet a network of businesses that can or do serve the various needs of our community. A Reverse Boycott principle...--Nmaginate

What? WHAT? What network of businesses? What kind of businesses? If this is your idea of establishing consumer power, you're dumber than I thought. I assure you, idiot, that any existing black owned businesses won't just up and join hands across America just because you want them to--not without having some kind of proof that it would be worth their time.

Once again, dufus, you put the cart before the horse--how the hell do you propose that we, as a people, take consumer control without learning how to take control of their own lives first? As I said before with establishing social wellness centers in predominantly black, lower socio-economic areas, the wellness centers would address the needs of these people so that they may get on the road of becoming economically viable.

You present these generalized end process ideas without discussing how we, as a people, are supposed to get to the point of the end process.
You're a waste of time, Nmaginate, and you love to argue because you're upset that you have no real solutions or ideas.

quote:

That must be that funny math I have heard of. Not paying income taxes means keeping all of the money you make; if we were to receive money, said money would come from an alternative source. --Nmaginate's gay lover, Blountfist

You're another fucking idiot and it pains me to even interact with you on the same website, Blountfist, you fucking recessive gene fatso, because you haven't stated how these people are going to all of a sudden deal with having all of their income. I could have sworn your water headed ass said that blacks shouldn't recieve monetary compensation through reparations. So, now you want some money from th' gubment? Just shut the fuck up while you're ahead, Bitchfist. Hell, I shouldn't even call you Bitchfist, your new screename is "LadyFinger."

quote:

You say some of the dumbest stuff! Voting ironazz, is a right, not a privilege. Even though you are in jail you still have your rights.

To a great degree, you waive your rights, you dumb fuck, once you commit a crime to the extent of it falling under the criteria of being a felony. Freedom is also a right, not a priviledge but you don't see prison inmates walking amongst free citizens, getting a hamburger and a milkshake at your local McDonald's now do you, LadyFinger--which leads me to this next preposterous piece of bile you wasted 5 minutes to type:

quote:

2a. 1 time get out of jail free cards. --Nmaginate's gay lover, LadyFinger

You're sounding more like a ex-con yourself, LadyFinger, you slack jawed loser or should I call you inmate 4739212-001? Hell, let me go kill somebody so I can get out of jail free or better yet, lemme go knock over a federal armored car or rob a bank, stash the money somewhere safe so I can use my 'get out of jail card' and be a fucking millionaire. You're so fucking dumb, LadyFinger, it's hard to believe you are even typing up these retarded responses--it's hard to beleive you even have the ability to turn your computer on, much less access the internet.

This is another piece of stupidity that you wasted valuable time to type:

quote:

Since felon's caint vote, should they still have to pay the same rate of income tax as everybody else? Because currently they still have to pay taxes for a government they have no input on. --Nmaginate's gay lover, LadyFinger

First of all, you must be a country ass motherfucker, LadyFinger, because you spelled can't, "c-a-i-n-t." Secondly, I don't give a fuck about a convicted felon. Once they've committed a crime at the level of being a felony, they deserve whatever society throws at them. Hell, they put themselves in that position when they do commit these crimes, and are aware of the consequences when they do so.

The only thing that needs to be changed is the severity to which blacks are charged with a crime. There are many cases where blacks are unfairly sentenced according to their crime, however, and, nevertheless, those people are few and far between, first of all, and secondly, most of these brothers are aware of how unbalanced the law can be in regards to blacks, so, why put yourself in that position to begin with, especially when there are alternatives to a life of crime--alternatives that are easily accessible like getting a GED and then attending a trade school under full pell grant or going through special youth programs that train at risk teenagers how to be employable.

Neither you, LadyFinger, nor your gay lover, Nmurinate, have the ability to think holistically nor do you two have the ability to express yourselves on a higher cognitive level other than generalized statements. Both of you clowns need to hit the showers.

quote:

Let me re-emphasize the ignorant ambiguity in your train of thought...

THere is no AMBIGUITY in what I said. And you have not shown it. lol...

Try quoting some WISE statement that doesn't CONTRADICT your thesis. Now that's something akin to AMBIGUITY. You know, it's like you are confused. It must be that Big House air of something because I could swear you never approached the wisdom in the very damn quote you listed.

Don't get mad at me because you hate yourself so much that you CONTRADICT yourself in the same damn post. And to top it off, you claim there's "ambiguity" in my posts (because your feelings are hurt by your own obvious CONTRADICTIONS) but you can't point out what's ambiguous.

Seriously, we all know what INSTITUTIONS are. From Banking & Financial institutions to educational institutions and other community & social/civic institutions there is nothing unclear about what institutions are. No real need for specifics because we need ever manner of institutions of our own. So ALL OF THE ABOVE is the answer and there's nothing new under sun. So the things you claim to be your own ideas... PLEASE... Heard all that stuff before without variation. Yours is verbatim.

So it's really no sweat off my brow to actually be ACCURATE when I talk about REPARATIONS instead of saying something patently fallacious and giving credit to other people who have already spoken on this issue.

As the saying goes NO NEED TO REINVENT THE WHEEL... You really should follow that and kill the Knee-Jerk juvenilism. OWN YOUR CONTRADICTION and move the fuck on!

You're mad at yourself, Nmurinate, because you don't have any ideas. There is nothing to discuss with you because your train of thought, as well as logic is trash.

--THE END.

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
You're mad at yourself, Nmurinate, because you don't have any ideas. There is nothing to discuss with you because your train of thought, as well as logic is trash.--THE END.

....and I second the emotion. For Nmaginate to discard information that will be presented, and stands a good chance of shutting down this reparations cause, he is not being realistic!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

The only contradiction is you, Nmurinate, because first you said you wanted to achieve independence from racist institutions, now you want to say blacks should be placed in these racist institutions. This is how you got into trouble in this debate, several pages ago, by using somebody else's ideas instead of using your own:

quote:

A good academic exercise would be to develop a plan for how reparations could be used collectively to enable the African community to become independent from racist institutions and economically self-sufficient for at least seven generations.

From the How would reparations be paid? section:
http://www.ncobra.com/ncobra_info.htm --Nmurinate, LadyFinger's gay lover.

Then, you turn around several pages later and copy exactly what I already stated but in your own dumbass words:

quote:

So, the objective is to change the dynamics. If not completely change these "racist institutions" then, of course, the goal is to eliminate or lessen the effect of them. Perhaps that can be mitigated by a few socially conscious persons (amongst a sea of people who aren't... as conscious)... --Nmurinate, LadyFinger's gay lover

You're so fucking retarded, Nmurinate, it's no wonder you and your gay lover, LadyFinger, are the only two idiots bouncing back and forth, thinking you're debating but you're only responding out of spite and vendictiveness because you're getting straight CLOWNED.

Let me emphasize something to you, you cock-eyed clown--READ THIS QUOTE FROM YOUR OWN STUPID ASS PLUG OF SOMEONE ELSE'S IDEA:

[QUOTE]....to enable the African community to become independent from racist institutions... [QUOTE]

How can you become independent from the very racist institutions you claim you want to insert socially conscious black people in--which was my idea to begin with?

You're a pain in the ass to interact with, Nmurinate, because you have no debating skills, no logic and a poor ass train of thought, not to mention you love to copy other people's ideas, just like your gay lover, LadyFinger. Both of you have lost this argument from the very begining and both of you make yourselves look dumber and more desperate with each post you make.

Just shut the fuck up while you're ahead, Nmurinate--take a fucking powder and shut the fuck up.

..and another thing, Nmurinate, the mere fact that you have posted over 4283 discussions, you have a master of the universe rating, yet you haven't learned one damn thing in interacting with all of these other people is ridiculous.

You've posted 4283 discussions, reactions, blah, blah, blah, and you sound just as ignorant as you did when you posted your first discussion.

Just hang it up, Nmurinate.

quote:

The only contradiction is you, Nmurinate, because first you said you wanted to achieve independence from racist institutions, now you want to say blacks should be placed in these racist institutions.

Nah!! That's your broke ass! I told you about PROCESS.

And again, I'll have to Treat Like A Prostitute... I mean "White Boy" and challenge you to QUOTE ME or STROKE ME!

Where did I say "blacks should be placed in these racist institutions"?
"Should be" as in a matter of preference.
"Should be" as in a matter that's the Sum Total of what I've said.
"Should be" as in I've said nothing else but that.

Dude, you got to come better than that.
OWN YOUR CONTRADICTIONS.... BITCH!!

quote:

How can you become independent from the very racist institutions you claim you want to insert socially conscious black people in--which was my idea to begin with?

Never made such a claim. You did.
QUOTE ME or STROKE ME!

Quote where I said I WANT TO INSERT socially conscious people in such "racist institutions" as a Matter of Preference, as the basis of my argument. YOU CAN'T and you only perpetuate your weakness by being so DISHONEST. STUPID ASS!!

There is no way you can ask such stupid question by this very statement that explodes your stupidity without question:

quote:

While on the way to "Infiltrate" the system "these racist institution"... too many African Americans have simply replicated or been used to replicate the same things the system was putting out when they entered them. Part of that being because it was [those] very "Racist System" that trained them [in the first place]...

Well, one thing you don't get taught by your "enemy" is how to defeat him and when you leave it for your enemy to educate you and yours... suffice it to say your everyday training won't be one that prepares you for combat in every theatre on all terrain.

This is just delusional thinking... As if "these racist institutions" are producing Socially Conscious Blacks. That runs counter to SYSTEM SURVIVAL, IronHorse. It is counterintuitive and just plain DELUSIONAL.

Where is the "I WANT TO INSERT" clause at IronHorse?

While you're trying to confuse yourself, for whatever you're trying to interpret as me saying "I WANT TO INSERT"... first understand A MEANS TO AN END. The problem with your idea is that your ideas Begin & End with STAYING WITHIN THE SYSTEM. Which is, again, frankly DELUSIONAL for what you claim and CONTRADICTORY with respect to that WISE Statement.

Again, WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO?
You and your Delusional Fantasies of INFILTRATION.

I know a very wise statement, too. It says beware of the company you keep (or seek). In any such company/arrangement, there will be those Push or Pull the direction of the group and those who are Pushed or Pulled. Review this:

quote:

...too many African Americans have simply replicated or been use to replicate the same things the system was putting out when they entered them.

Perhaps [the effect or impact from the RACIST INSTITUTIONS] can be mitigated by a few socially conscious persons (amongst a sea of people who aren't...)

Tongue In Cheek, you dumbass!!

Your Socially Conscious & Infiltration Theory was throughly DEBUNKED! You've pre-complicated it in your Supporting Black Leaders thread where you more or less admitted that Colin Powell and Condi Rice via their policy positions should be respected on GP. So much for the INFILTRATION.

Dumbass!! Do you really think Socially Conscious people will have controlling influence in "these racist institutions"?

How come Colin, Condi, Clarence, ETC. haven't hatched the Infiltration Plan or done anything to Change Those Racist Institutions?

As I say to the "White Boys"... YOU ARE YOUR OWN WORST ENEMA!!

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
..and another thing, Nmurinate, the mere fact that you have posted over 4283 discussions, you have a master of the universe rating, yet you haven't learned one damn thing in interacting with all of these other people is ridiculous..

You must be White. Only someone WHITE (or just stupid) would be worried about how much I post.... when they get "tired" of me showing them their EVERY CONTRADICTION.

Tell me... How WISE are you?

You know there's one way to stop me from highlighting your CONTRADICTIONS. Don't you?
Simply stop CONTRADICTING yourself... and don't Sweat The Prolifics. It only shows how you can't deal head on with the subject matter.

But keep reaching for all manner of Off-Topic stuff. Maybe one day you'll convince yourself of what you say. Sorry ass punk!

"You post 4000 + times. That don't mean nothing."

Obviously it must mean something to you and you must feel intimidated or something because you're the only dumbass focusing on silly shit like that.

Question: How salty are my balls?
You keep licking them... Homo Deflectus!

Where do you get these Romper Room tactics?

What one fails to realize is that AUTONOMY is neccessary.

quote:

IDEAL REPARATIONS = Political and Economic AUTONOMY

Dr. Martin Luther King and Thurgood would never have suggested taking an economic back seat. They spoke of not only subsisting, but thriving in this economy as equals.

Iron, How will we fund stabilization?

quote:

Secondly, social wellness centers need to be created and placed in predominantly black areas--give the lower class a fighting chance. These centers would have social workers, legal aide, job placement services, affordable daycare and evening care for single mothers, affordable medical care with the use of students in their residency, as well as other social services that would be provided through participating churches, and hospitals.

This center would also have internship programs for college students, particularly, for students in the field of education, medicine, psyhology, and social work. Participating colleges and universities could revamp curriculum to require one or two semesters of intership in these centers.

I can dig that.

quote:

Having your taxes waived is the same as being given money--most black people will still spend that money and bring themselves back to square one or worse because they would grow more impulsive with their spending--thinking they have a little more disposible income when, in reality, they still have the same debt as before.

As far as restoring the right to vote to felons--bad idea. First of all, voting was the last thing on most of these felons minds or they wouldn't have gotten thrown in prison to begin with. If you want to restore voting priveledges to felons then what would be the point of taking their voting priviledges from them to begin with

Come on man.

You should have definitely put more thought into those considerations, before blurting out underdevoloped statements like this.

First of all, to which connotative or colloquial perception of Black are you referring?

I certainly know many blacks that invest and save. I know many blacks that study and work hard to be assets to their community, and society. I grew up in the projects, and I can personally attest that the people I grew up with are not representative of the Whole. I can also assure you that, had they had just the smallest seed of hope of obtaining something worth saving for, they would save every penny they had. But in the hood, we are not educated about the opportunities they are readily (yeah right) available to us.

Now Iron, I'm sure you've noticed that I've ignored many of your childish rantings and challenges. Reason being, I'm confident that in person you'd definitely show some respect. This illusion of 'I WIN' you have is amusing. Anyhow, I like some of your ideas. What I don't like is some of the disparaging remarks about our people that you spew out.

The only response that's warranted is an answer to the question.

Who funds this stabilization that you speak of?

Any other response will probably go ignored, especially the 'I WIN' 'YOU LOSE' remarks. This isn't a game.

quote:

What one fails to realize is that AUTONOMY is neccessary.

IDEAL REPARATIONS = Political and Economic AUTONOMY

Well, since TAXATION has been mentioned here... I've long since advocated BLACK CONTROL OF BLACK TAXES which by definition forms a basis for political and economic autonomy.

Given the magnitude of the Reparations project, it stands to reason that there must be an organizational structure to implement/administer Reparations. There is then no reason why we should not only assert our right to establish, control and run such an organization but also seek to govern our affairs. What could be more RESTORATIVE?

Our history isn't one of a Subject People. Before enslaved here we were not Subject or even citizens of this country. So to truly RESTORE and "repair", at the very least, we should have the complete choice in how we relate to this country. Anything else, anything circumscribed around what the supposed "reality" is and how White America will respond or what "they will allow" is arbitrarily limiting one's own choices and never approaching THE IDEAL.

I think we should have a black electorate.

The Reparations project should be one lump sum. A fund so to speak, that we govern over. We have the means and the intellectual resources to create our own bureaucratic black body politic, all we need is the funding. Yeah, some can say, why don't we just take our own money and throw it into a big "black" pot. I'd say, one we don't have enough, two, that's a socialist view, and three I'm not willing to count all the labor we put into this country as sunk cost, or neccessary losses.

Some may feel that the creation of such a faculty would only give us something else to fight over, but I feel it would force us put our heads together, and create a system that is just as effecient (if not more) as the one we are currently living in.

I don't advocate either extreme of socialism or capatilism. I'm sure we can find an ideology more in line with consciousness, that would further facilitate our political, social, and economic objectives.

quote:

Yeah, some can say, why don't we just take our own money and throw it into a big "black" pot. I'd say, one we don't have enough... and... I'm not willing to count all the labor we put into this country as sunk cost, or neccessary losses.

HERU, that's the reason behind BLACK CONTROL OF BLACK TAXES. At the very least, that's "Starter Capital" with or without REPARATIONS funds. And of course a governing body/organ to administer those taxes is a pre-requisite.

Ever notice why I don't interact or respond to any of your discussions, HomoStar? This is why I ignore all of your postings, HeruStar, as well as any of Nmurinate's and Blaqfist, a.k.a. "LadyFinger's" ignorant postings:

quote:

Who funds this stabilization that you speak of? --HomoStar

What the hell did you think this whole discussion was created about, you door nob? REPARATIONS, what to do with REPARATIONS. If you weren't so busy, HomoStar, trying to impress these other homo's with all that metaphorical, metaphysical bullshit, and eatting up MBM's accolades, while you lick his ass, you would have understood what this whole discussion was about. This next quote is another reason why it's a waste of time to debate with a dellusional character like you, HomoStar, that has comic book dreams of black people as a whole:

quote:

First of all, to which connotative or colloquial perception of Black are you referring? --HomoStar

Who the fuck cares? That whole statement, in itself, is moot and only serves to futher fragment the problem that is already being faced with how to see reparations in it's fruition.

This is another reason why you're a waste of fucking keystrokes to debate with, Homostar: I'm not going to waste my damn time combing the world wide web, trying to establish a lock tight deposition for every discussion I make--I don't need my ass to be patted on by MBM or anyone else on this website.

You can interpret that last statement any way you want as being "weak" or any other kind of bullshit you want--the bottom line is, I have a life--I'm not going to sit here all day and type up gobs and gobs of information and ambiguous rhetoric for a bunch of biased idiots, like you, that only have one-track minded view of who black people are.

By the way, I'm still waiting on you to initiate this revolution, HomoStar--I'm still waiting for you to lead us into the promised land--I'm waiting to see black people unite and overcome our oppressors. You can't even tuck your fucking shirt in good, HomoStar, and you talk all this bullshit about what black people, as a race, can accomplish because of what some black people did decades and decades ago, a group of black people that were under completely different circumstances and a completely different culture.

Here's another piece of worthless garbage you wasted 5 minutes to type up:

quote:

I can also assure you that, had they had just the smallest seed of hope of obtaining something worth saving for, they would save every penny they had. But in the hood, we are not educated about the opportunities they are readily (yeah right) available to us. --HomoStar

It's obvious you drank too much 'red' and 'purple' Kool-Aid while growing up in the ghetto--it seems that in no point in time did you ever pay attention to the inner workings of why black ghettos still thrive. Perhaps you should read this book by John McWhorter to get a better idea of what I'm talking about, since you obviously don't have a damn clue or you, yourself, are in denial.

Here's another childish, premature statement you made:

quote:

I certainly know many blacks that invest and save. I know many blacks that study and work hard to be assets to their community, and society. --HomoStar

Ooooh, HomoStar, then you must know all 20 percent of black people in the United States of America, right? If so many black people were studying, working hard, and being assets to their community, then, what the hell is the need for reparations? By your testimony, us black people have our thang together, right? Keep on dreaming, naive boy.

This last piece of garbage you wrote definately would serve its purpose at the bottom of a birdcage, if it were originally written on paper:

quote:

Any other response will probably go ignored, especially the 'I WIN' 'YOU LOSE' remarks. This isn't a game.

You, HomoStar, and these other losers keep playing with fucking childish ass cartoon faces and you're telling me this isn't a game? Honestly, and sincerely, HomoStar, get the fuck outta here with that garbage.

If you don't have anything to contribute to the discussion then you need to keep on ignoring this discussion and take your ass somewhere else. Nobody called you in this discussion and you didn't lose anything in here either so, step off.

quote:

Well, since TAXATION has been mentioned here... I've long since advocated BLACK CONTROL OF BLACK TAXES which by definition forms a basis for political and economic autonomy. --Nmurinate

Oh hell no--now I know you're smoking weed.

quote:

Given the magnitude of the Reparations project, it stands to reason that there must be an organizational structure to implement/administer Reparations. There is then no reason why we should not only assert our right to establish, control and run such an organization but also seek to govern our affairs. What could be more RESTORATIVE?

More boring, generalized statements that sound amazingly like a generic knock-off of what I already stated several pages ago.

quote:

Anything else, anything circumscribed around what the supposed "reality" is and how White America will respond or what "they will allow" is arbitrarily limiting one's own choices and never approaching THE IDEAL.

"What they will allow," huh? That sounds like another sorry ass cop out: "We couldn't get what we wanted because the man wouldn't let us have it."

I'm sick of this debate because it keeps going in circles--it's full of fictitious afrocentric bedtime stories, bias, lies, contradictions and ambiguity.


When you give a complete outline, step by step, of what the hell we are to do with reparations, and not create a link to someone elses site, thereby, creating your own clearly stated ideas, wake me up.

quote:

Oh hell no--now I know you're smoking weed.

Ah, HELL YEAH!! Now I know you're Shea "Whitey!" (or him who Likey Shea Whitey!)

quote:

"What they will allow," huh? That sounds like another sorry ass cop out: "We couldn't get what we wanted because the man wouldn't let us have it."

DUMBASS!! Of course, you're sick of this because I keep exposing your anemic basis of your arguments.

I certainly did not make a COP OUT statement. You and I both know that. Nothing I said sound anything like this:
Achieving independence from whites, huh? How can any race of human being on this planet achieve independence from whites?

Talk about "THE MAN"...
And these words of yours keep echoing:

"Yeah, I know this sounds like the house nigger not wanting to see slavery end for fear of having to figure out how to fend for himself..."

Hmmm... what exactly is your issue over BLACK CONTROL OVER BLACK TAXES? House Negro Issues? Scared Ass "Whitey" Issues? And/or other assorted COP OUT Issues.

I repeat (for you, from you):

Achieving independence from whites, huh? How can any race of human being on this planet achieve independence from whites?

I guess "THE MAN" is a bad mother*...* SHUT YO MOUTH!

quote:

When you give a complete outline, step by step, of what the hell we are to do with reparations, and not create a link to someone elses site, thereby, creating your own clearly stated ideas, wake me up.

Your ideas are not clearly stated here. You do more to contradict them the more you talk. CONTRADICTION is like the anti-thesis to Clarity.

And my thoughts may very well be "Afrocentric"... Hmmm... I find it hard to understand your point about being any of them being "fictitious". This is a thread about IDEAL and not "real" Reparations given the fact that Reparations are not a REALITY, yet.

BIAS? LIES? CONTRADICTIONS? (QUOTE ME!)
AMBIGUITY? (STROKE ME!!)

Your initial post here is based on a LIE, a convenient (and disparaging FICTION). For one, you Accomodationist motherfuckas have not advanced the REPARATIONS Movement. But we've already said that. The very people who have pushed REPARATIONS to the fore are those "Afrocentric" types. They and only they have an unbroken history and tradition of promoting Reparations. So let's talk about TRUTH.

Speaking about TRUTH, none of the leading Reparations advocacy group or leaders have ever talked about Reparations as Cash Checks (only or primarily) to Individuals.

quote:

First of all, most of us black people wouldn't know what to do with cash money...

So, let's talk about your FICTIONS and BIASES. First of all, as noted, you even talking about CASH MONEY as Reparations is FALSE!

Charles Ogletree, N'Cobra, Randall Robinson, Farrkhan & Worrill, etc., etc., etc. NONE OF THEM have argued for Reparations As Cash Checks To Individuals. And really, I can only think of one article by a Reparations Advocate/Leader or media personality (i.e. the real opinion and issue shapers of this idea) who has even mentioned Reparations in terms of how much cash to individuals ($35K each, I believe).

So, from the very fuckin' beginning, you shit was off-fuckin'-base. Just deal with the fact that you have issues that all revolve around your own self-admission:

"Yeah, I know this sounds like the house nigger not wanting to see slavery end for fear of having to figure out how to fend for himself..."

As far as my "BIAS" is concerned... Really? What the fuck are you talking about? As if your views here doesn't reflect the contours of your ideology, perspective and BIASES?

Seriously... how can you ever talk about "bias" and other thing to try to call what I say into question when you've said some bullshit like this:
You know, what is so fucking ridiculous is the fact that, first of all, all this debating over reparations is irrefutably unnecessary since reparations will never happen...

You do know that what you believe in those terms invariably has an effect -- a biased effect -- on what you have to say here. In other words, it should come as no surprise that your thoughts here are LIMITED, shaped and restricted by your ultimate beliefs. (Talk about COP OUTs!) Not only your belief in terms of "Will Reparations Happen" but also your beliefs in the ability of Black people to manage Reparations when accorded show confined range and scope of your views.

Those are your inherently problematic BIASES.
BELIEF IN CAUSE and BELIEF IN THE PEOPLE are primary. You have failed on both accounts. Deal with your issues.

I made one simple observation but you wanted to smart off. So don't cry to me because the LIMITS and BIAS within your views are exposed. You had your chance to just accept my comments for what they were.

quote:

You do know that what you believe in those terms invariably has an effect -- a biased effect -- on what you have to say here. In other words, it should come as no surprise that your thoughts here are LIMITED, shaped and restricted by your ultimate beliefs. (Talk about COP OUTs!) Not only your belief in terms of "Will Reparations Happen" but also your beliefs in the ability of Black people to manage Reparations when accorded show confined range and scope of your views.

Those are your inherently problematic BIASES.
BELIEF IN CAUSE and BELIEF IN THE PEOPLE are primary. You have failed on both accounts. Deal with your issues

Nmaginate

YOU GOT SCHOOLED

quote:

To tell you the truth though, if reparations were to happen, it most certainly wouldn't happen in our lifetime and probably not in the lifetime of our children, which is why we should focus more on stablization rather than waiting for reparations to pull us out of the hole.

???horse


Who funds stabilization? HERU

quote:

What the hell did you think this whole discussion was created about, you door nob? REPARATIONS, what to do with REPARATIONS

Cluelesshorse

YOUR'E a RETARD if you can't see that blatant CONTRAICTION!!!

quote:

It's obvious you drank too much 'red' and 'purple' Kool-Aid while growing up in the ghetto--it seems that in no point in time did you ever pay attention to the inner workings of why black ghettos still thrive. Perhaps you should read this book by John McWhorter to get a better idea of what I'm talking about, since you obviously don't have a damn clue or you, yourself, are in denial

BigSistersPet

Yeah, I was doing all of that while you were painting your toenails with your sister talking about being romantically viable.

quote:

Ooooh, HomoStar, then you must know all 20 percent of black people in the United States of America, right? If so many black people were studying, working hard, and being assets to their community, then, what the hell is the need for reparations? By your testimony, us black people have our thang together, right? Keep on dreaming, naive boy.

Psychohorse

My views or my people are way more representative than yours. You need to stay out of those White Power sites.

quote:

If you don't have anything to contribute to the discussion then you need to keep on ignoring this discussion and take your ass somewhere else. Nobody called you in this discussion and you didn't lose anything in here either so, step off

Maxi

If you let inspiring discussions go uninterrupted without your foolishness interjections, then me Blaqfist, and Nmaginate will continue to contribute our thoughts (which you are clearly ignorant of).

I'm about to put an end to your pointless rantings too, HomoStar. First of all, what the hell is this:

quote:

Who funds stabilization? HERU


quote:
What the hell did you think this whole discussion was created about, you door nob? REPARATIONS, what to do with REPARATIONS
Cluelesshorse

YOUR'E a RETARD if you can't see that blatant CONTRAICTION!!!

I don't know what the fuck a 'contraiction' is--I looked all over the dictionary and couldn't find it, however, I do know what a contradiction is. The title of this discussion, which I created, is "Ideal Reparations," not, "What HeruStar want's to believe," not "What Nmaginate thinks," but what I think ideal reparations is to be. How could I contradict my own forum?

You, HomoStar, haven't presented any ideas to me, only your disapproval of mine. Like I said before, HomoStar, you're so busy trying to impress people by writing 36 inch long discussions on GARBAGE, so MBM can pat you on the ass, you don't have the capability to just say what you want to say without being superfluously boring.

quote:

My views or my people are way more representative than yours. You need to stay out of those White Power sites.--HomoStar

Oh, okay, naive boy. You haven't conducted one formal sample research of the various black demographics, you haven't taught one course on social wellness on one single college campus but you think your casual observations of some bums in your ghetto ass neighborhood is supposed to be a professional statistical analysis of the entire populous of the United States of America's black population? This is yet another reason why you ain't worth a shit to debate with.

Here's yet another reason why you're a worthless piece of shit for debating, HomoStar:

quote:
You do know that what you believe in those terms invariably has an effect -- a biased effect -- on what you have to say here. In other words, it should come as no surprise that your thoughts here are LIMITED, shaped and restricted by your ultimate beliefs. (Talk about COP OUTs!) Not only your belief in terms of "Will Reparations Happen" but also your beliefs in the ability of Black people to manage Reparations when accorded show confined range and scope of your views.

Those are your inherently problematic BIASES.
BELIEF IN CAUSE and BELIEF IN THE PEOPLE are primary. You have failed on both accounts. Deal with your issues
Nmaginate

YOU GOT SCHOOLED

Oh, will you PLEASE do me a favor--shut the fuck up, and take Nmurinate's DICK out of your mouth while you're at it, HomoStar?

Why you think you need help to debate when you write those long-winded, boring ass, rigid discussions of your own, is beyond me, nevertheless, it proves that you are a punk ass water head, because you think somebody else 'schooled' me which means you don't have the capicity to do so yourelf.

Which reminds me, your ego is still so damaged, I bet you haven't taken one second to observe the link I made on John McWhorter. Don't say anything about it now because you fucked up and chose to take the nigger route instead of the intellectual route--bravo, idiot.

You may as well get Vox, AudioGuy, Blaqfist a.k.a. "LadyFinger," LimDem, Oshun and any other clown in your flunky stable--you and Nmurinate sure as hell are coming up short.

quote:

...you and Nmurinate sure as hell are coming up short.

You will see, there is nothing short about me.

http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7401089581/m/5491061382

*Laughing my damn ass off* See, Nmaginate, here's why I'm laughing my fucking ass off: I created this discussion May 3rd and it took you until May 31st to finally come up with an idea, and then you have the fucking gall to say that your list of ideas is incomplete???

This is why you and HeruStar aren't worth debating with: Anybody can go find site and create a link to it in order to support their discussion--anybody can run away and fiddle faddle around, like you have apparently done, and take 28 days to finally respond with a straight answer. I'm going to give you the same amount of professional courteousy, or the lack thereof, you gave me and take my time to read that garbage that took you 28 days to write.

Meanwhile, you bounced back and forth, day and night, for 28 days, throwing uncalled for and unwarranted insults and slanderous comments--buying time, wracking your brains trying to think of something to say--STALLING--while you act the fool all day and night.

If you didn't have an answer when I first asked you the question, two weeks ago, of what your idea of what to do with reparations, and you didn't have a damn clue, all you had to do was tell me you would get back with me later--noooooooo, you had too much pride--you had to throw insults while all you had to say in response to my question was generalized comments and linking to what other people's ideas are.

I could have done the same thing--sat on my ass and thrown insults all day and waited until nearly a month later to respond with a straight answer. This, Nmaginate, is why you're coming up short, and specifically, in this case, you're days late and dollars short, However, I'm still going to show you more courteousy and respect than you had the capacity and maturity to show me, and take the time to read your garbage before I comment on it. Even still, if your ideas prove to be sound, after I've read your ideas at my own leisure, I still will have no respect for you because you didn't have the common sense, courteousy and integrity to admit you didn't have any ideas to post until now, nearly 30 days later.

All you have to do to start a discussion is just state a few brief ideas and discuss further solutions and ideas in the course of the discussion instead of trying to make a damn book out of the first discussion you make. It wastes time and it's irrefutably boring to sift through mounds of information at one time when it can be distributed at oportune moments, and it doesn't take cussing somebody out for several pages while you're collecting your thoughts either.

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Opportune because your STRAW MAN ASS need some relief, huh??

Next time just accept the fact that you don't have a clue and stay away from the fallacy that:
Lack Of Evidence (at times opportune for you) is Evidence Of Lack.

Now, after your punk ass has sweated my Prolifics, now you want to whine about my Thoroughness.

You are your own worst enema.
And, yes! It takes me a while to collect my thoughts in order to do justice to something of this magnitude but none of what I said represents something I just thought off.

Frankly, it's shit like this that, IMO, doesn't say shit:

quote:

I think that more funding should be appropriated into improving the in and around the city limits of predominately black cities in America--more affordable housing, better public transportation systems, and signing bonuses to attract new teachers in inner city school systems.

I guess those are some very ORIGINAL and hightech ideas or something, in your book... Well, to each his little, short and non-descript and unoriginal own!

You should take some responsibility though... If your SCARED self-confessed HOUSE Negro ass wasn't using so many STRAW MEN that I had to call your ass on we could have long since had a more productive and quick debate/discussion/dialogue.

But you, because your little feelings get so hurt so quick you wanted to go the long route. The problem is, you constantly keep changing directions. You've gone to other forums begging me to lay something out for you (to take the heat off of you) now you want to say it's too late when you were just begging for it.

Too funny!!

Dude, it just doesn't follow... When I make the critiques I do of what you say then that means my thoughts are very fuckin' collected, very fuckin' focused and very fuckin' purposeful.

quote:

...it doesn't take cussing somebody out for several pages while you're collecting your thoughts either.

SHUT THE FUCK UP! (I repeat that enough times to turn a new page.)

When you learn not to Insult My Intelligence with STRAW MEN and your other assorted silly tactics then I'll be formally "civil". But when you Curse me by way of being blatantly dishonest with what you say then you deserve every cursing I can give you.

You had a choice. Instead of acting like a little bitch when someone (I) disagreed with you... you could have dealt honestly with what was being said and maturely. Instead you acted like a Scorn Lover Brat Hooker Bitch!

You know I'm your PIMP!!

quote:

quote:
To tell you the truth though, if reparations were to happen, it most certainly wouldn't happen in our lifetime and probably not in the lifetime of our children, which is why we should focus more on stablization rather than waiting for reparations to pull us out of the hole.
???horse


Who funds stabilization? HERU


quote:
What the hell did you think this whole discussion was created about, you door nob? REPARATIONS, what to do with REPARATIONS

quote:

because you haven't stated how these people are going to all of a sudden deal with having all of their income. I could have sworn your water headed ass said that blacks shouldn't recieve monetary compensation through reparations. ironazz

What I think you are trying to say is "you never said what black people are going to do with all of their new found wealth."

My answer is rather simple; Whatever they want to do with it! They could buy a new house, car, or invest.

House niggas like you would probably give it back though; thats cool with me to, after all it is "your" money".

I never said anything about recieving money for reparations, namely because I don't think we would ever get money, waiving the income tax is doable though.

What are you, about 5'6?
I did'nt know they stacked shit that high.

Sadly I agree w/ ironazz on a couple points.

Namely, it is a crying shame that we don't channel some of the 1/2 trillion dollars we put into the US economy each year..

Does anyone have a link to a valid (ironazz) link that breaks down how that 1/2 trillion is spent?

I know at least 25-30% of it is necessary spending (rent, gas, car notes, health care, and food, (shit like that)).

But I want to know how much we spend on frivolous spending (shit we don't need), movies, smoking, liquor, drugs...

quote:

Sadly I agree w/ ironazz on a couple points. --Blaqfist a.k.a. "LadyFinger."

I'm sure you agree with me on more than just a couple of things, fatso, but I'll give you a little credit for admitting the little that you do agree on.


I hate to break up this little romantic moment between you, LadyFinger, and you, Nmaginate, but, ummmmm, we blacks are currently the largest consumer demographic in the world. We spend over 700 billion dollars a year on on various products, not even counting cost of living expenses like electric, gas, rent, mortgage, etc.

We spend over 700 billion dollars a year on the same 'racist instititions' that say black people are broke and don't have the taste to appreciate their products--corporations like Nautica, and Tommy Hilfiger, to say the least, are the same corporations that have survived bankruptcy and going out of business due to our consumer dollars.

Of all the demographics in the United States of America, black women rate the highest in credit card debt due to impulsive spending, and that's just the tip of the iceburg. Yeah, black people have a long way to go before they can even BEGIN to collectively think about reparations.

quote:

Originally posted by HeruStar:

quote:

quote:
???horse


Who funds stabilization? HERU


quote:
What the hell did you think this whole discussion was created about, you door nob? REPARATIONS, what to do with REPARATIONS

You try so hard, HeruStar, to find flaws in my conversation but you always manage to make yourself look bad in the process. You get caught up on miniscule things or maybe you just see things that aren't there instead of just asking for clarification first.

You like to use words like "Skurp" and "Fixin's," which you still haven't clarified what he hell those two words are, yet you think you found a contradiction in my conversation. When I use a term like "To tell you the truth..." It is a southern way of speaking off the record.

If I didn't agree with reparations I wouldn't have even bothered to write suggestions of what I think we should do with reparations if we recieve reparations.

You're still too eager to prove somebody wrong instead of just interacting constructively with the conversation. Try to keep up with us, HeruSter--I know you're young but you can do it.

quote:

Originally posted by Nmaginate:

quote:

The only contradiction is you, Nmurinate, because first you said you wanted to achieve independence from racist institutions, now you want to say blacks should be placed in these racist institutions.

Nah!! That's your broke ass! I told you about PROCESS.

And again, I'll have to Treat you Like A Prostitute... I mean "White Boy" and challenge you to QUOTE ME or STROKE ME!

.............

Yep, IRONHORSE, a few people on this board have attempted to say that I'm Caucasian, or have no connection to the Black community too.

Unfortunately for them, it is also more insults, name calling, your an "uncle tom", you can't possibly be Black, "you sound just like a white man", etc.

....to which my response to this crap continues to be:

quote:

Originally posted by shemika:
Michael – you sound just like a white man. You keep irrationally reiterating the same rhetoric without acknowledging individual realities where blacks are concerned. You seem to see black people as an isolated single minded unit acting as one without regard to individual circumstances and influences, which is very inhumane. Although you claim to acknowledge the realities, your conclusions demonstrate otherwise.

All you do is point fingers, blaming blacks for matters often beyond their control. You bring no sensible solutions other than broad, sweeping, unrealistic comments that don't actually address those realities, but rather, disregards and dismisses them. Saying, "All blacks have to do is stop dealing with drugs.", is not only simple minded, it ignores the power of racist institutional stereotyping and corruption that stigmatizes and persecutes even innocent blacks as occurred in TX. History should tell you that if drugs were out of the picture they would still find something else to justify a means to their end.

Also, how do you propose that the black middle class change the condition of black people in general? They basically get their income from white owned and controlled establishments that have traditionally terminated or blackballed anyone they disapproved of. The black leaders of the 50's and 60's did a very good job, that's why they were assassinated. That alone should tell you something about what blacks are up against when it comes to gaining real power and protection from their schemes. Proof of what blacks have to deal with is also documented on the COINTELPRO website.

What the Black Panthers and other black organizations were promoting, was unity, pro-black education, having each others back, and placing responsibility on the perpetrators and benefactors of racism rather than helping to tear each other down by blaming the consequences of it on the blacks of it's victims. Which is the answer, and is why the white establishment hated them. Watch who they hate and you'll know who's on the right track; someone like yourself will gain their approval.

....Sorry to dissappoint you Kweli4Real, Kevin41, Herustar, Nmaginate, Shemika, Vox, etc., but there is no way that you can destroy my credibility as it relates to the game playing, the sleaze, etc., etc., that Black people perpetrate on each other.

....As far as Kerosene Waters, Brentwood Burke, the many jack leg no good Black preachers, and the like, I've witnessed first hand the sleaze, greed, and incompetence of these individuals since I was a child.

...Heck, during the period when my sisters and brothers were being passed between Black folks to collect illicitly earned AFDC benefits was a wake up call.

Just as surely as my people contacted Joe Pine radio, and the lone Black woman who heard this message, as it relates to my Dad, and Mom trying to locate their children.

......Maxine Waters, Yvonne B. Burke, etc., etc., were contacted in person, by telephone, by U.S. certified mail, and/or by other by many other individuals regarding this reality of that middleclass using another family members to collect AFDC benefits.

When an appointment was arranged and agreed upon as to the date and time of a meeting to address this serious set of circumstances, these individual would play games, send the victim on the runnaround, etc., etc. On the date and time of the appointed the administrative aids, assistants, etc., would state, "You just missed them, as it relate to our so-called elected Black leaders", in a Brentwood Burke, Maxine Waters, Merv Dymally, etc., etc. Upon leaving the field representative office of a Maxine Waters, Augustus Hawkins, Merv Dymally, etc., these no good elected representatives would then re-enter the office from some back room or office once their administrative assistances alerted them my parents left the premises. After continuously being subjected to the "run around", my parents started using certified mail to document by petition the fact that these individuals were contacted, and the basis for the complaint. A hint to the wise, if you are going to commit sleazy acts, don't ever do this around a child, a teenager, etc., because they will never forget it!

Seems to me, the lone Black woman (A responsible Black woman), and/or Joe Pine (a Caucasian responsible U.S. citizen and owner of Joe Pine Radio) is more deserving of respect and admiration, or for matter more deserving of the position of elected representatives. Elected Officials by definition are mandated by law and sworn in under oath of office to be public servants. Our typical Black elected officials use this position to serve themselves, and their friends at the expense of law abiding Black people, or their constituency.

....but let a Caucasian police officer shoot a Black man, woman, or child, and Kerosene Waters will race back to Los Angeles to play the race card, condemn the Police, etc., etc., ....but she has yet to use her position of influence to assist that Black man, woman, or child maimed, killed, or otherwise to receive just compensation for the atrocities of a government seriously gone awry. Ambulance Reverend Jesse Jackson, and Reverend Al Sharpton were so sure that this most recent shooting of a Black man, and the residents with 120 rounds fired by Los Angeles County Sheriffs was an all Caucasian against Black people atrocity. Chief Baca, the community residents of Compton, the media, and the local community activists, in a Naji Ali, sent both of these media attention for their own personal gain shakedown poverty pimping fake activist packing like a runaway freight train out of the County of Los Angeles.

Black people have been killing Black people, and breaking up Black families for profit for decades. When this activity occurs, you never hear from, see, or get any response from Kerosen Waters, Brentwood Burke, Merv Dymally, Walter Tucker, Marc Ridley Thomas, Diane Watson, Martin Ludlow, Theresa Hughes, Gilbert Lindsey, Tom Bradley, Dave Cunningham, Reverend Jesse Jackson, Reverend Al Sharpton, Poverty Pimping Danny Bakewell, Ambulance Chasing Attorney Johnny Cochran, etc., etc., etc., or that typical Black middle class.

Heck, but it is understandable as to the reason for silence. This activity like illicit drug dealing is a part of the economy, or means to make a living of that Black middle class.

Butcher/Killer King atrocities, perpetrated by Black doctors, nurses, and administrators have been going since the 70s. Again, Brentwood Burke, Merv Dymally, Kerosene Waters, etc., etc., have been quiet, and have condoned this activity.

......Civil lawsuit in behalf of the many victims, is what is making for quality of life improvement in South Central Los Angeles. The numerous civil lawsuits for damages, have caused Caucasian, Hispanic, or other elected officials, doctors, lawyers, to "Crack the Whip", "Blow the Whistle", expose the activity by publishing it in the Los Angeles Times, and by firing or forcing many of these no good Black nurses, doctors, or hospital administrators to resign.

Like other victims who have filed claims for damages, and/or who are taking action to remove that disgraceful Black middle class from Butcher/King Hospital, the Lofton family will eventually be paid, and that no good game playing set of Black elected officials will be removed from elected office. Some are being removed by criminal indictment, and many will be removed by demographic shifts, because unlike that typical Black middleclass who protect, remains silent, or profits from the destruction of destroying the Black family structure, Hispanics are very family oriented, meaning they will not put up with this foolishness.

Tyler Perry, If you are listening, I know that you can relate to this. Coming from the "Hood" just like you, I know for a fact that there are many Black people around, from all walks of life, that would just as soon shake hands with you, as to quickly stab you in the back when your back is turned, or your guards are down.

I'm on the roll Kweli4Real, and there is nothing you can do to stop this message. The numbers of Black people who agree with me are growing. Tune in to, KRLA, A.M. 890, and you can listen to some of them on any given day make similar statements, meaning you are outnumbered.

There are only a few people on this message board who can relate to this message, as it relates to the uncouthness, the obnoxiousness of that typical Black middle class. I'm sure that ocatchings can relate to some of this material as well. I know IronHorse relates to this material, because of the unwarranted insults sent his direction by a few members of AfricanAmerica.org.

Nope, ......I Don't have to prove my Blackness to anyone. I have years of experience!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

quote:

You're still too eager to prove somebody wrong instead of just interacting constructively with the conversation. Try to keep up with us, HeruSter--I know you're young but you can do it.

Ironhorse,
Do you honestly think you have an edge over anyone in this forum. Physically your at the bottom of the pile. Intellectually, your a sad sad case. Emotionally, you are hypersensitive. Spiritually, Yeah Right!!

You need to get a grip on yourself before you can attempt to ridicule anyone over minuscule details, that you constantly un-purposefully misinterpret. Everyone here thinks your retarded. No matter how many pet names you come up with for the ladies you suck up to on this site, they'll never take your pretentious behind serious. Since you came here all you've been is crap in the street, you just sit around and stink.

I know you felt embarrased when you found out that the site is strictly discussions, and not a dating forum where you can attempt to put your mack down. Even if it was, your game is tired anyway. If you knew how to interract with your own gender without throwing a punk-fit, you'd probably be able to tighten up on your actin' skills.

quote:

What's your name? Where's your picture? What's your sign Sandye, sugarhoneybunch?

FakeHorse

You get the number yet?

HOW ABOUT NOOOO!

Nobody wants a midget minded, over-egotistical, pathologically psychotic, brother that's void of all consciousness.

You can't relate to your own people. No matter how much you try to (by your definition) act black. Get you some consciousness before you try to come at me sideways. Cause in that regard, you're not even worthy to lace my shoes, youngster.