quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
I'm not even saying that women should "lower" their standards.


Then what are you doing in this thread? The standards are what they are. The "cream" is what it is. Why do you give a shit what we consider the best to be unless you want us to change it BY LOWERING IT TO INCLUDE YOU AND YOUR PEERS? Isn't that your gripe? The cut-off is too high for your liking? Why should women give a shit what is to your liking with respect to the mates we choose??

See my point?

quote:
But my point is not that women need to "lower" their vision. They need to broaden/expand their vision.


That is bullshit semantics. There IS a hierarchy. The top is the top. PERIOD. Men put women in a hierarchy as well. Don't come encouraging women to "broaden" jack shit. We already do. We make a whole lot of compromises because of the plethora of men who are not about SHIT who are circulating in the dating pool. We make the MOST compromises when it comes to dating, so men need to go kick rocks somewhere before they start doling out "advice." We would not be in this piss-poor situation if it wasn't for the failings of Black men. Ugh.
What about your black artists? Sculptors? Writers? Painters? Engineers? Accountants? Scholars? Dentists? Community Activists? We have some of those you know? These aren't cream of the crop? And they're deserving men.
Here's a list of people who probably do NOT earn 6 figures or a comparable salary

Albert Einstein
Add almost any college professor to this list -(even many at Ivy League Schools)
Most teachers/administrators in junior colleges
Teachers in elementary and secondary education
Most people in literature or the arts.
Etc. I could go on if a really tried but I have a life

But my point is not that women need to "lower" their vision. They need to broaden/expand their vision.
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
Honest & AG -

The three of us have said the same thing to the ladies.


And the 3 of you are completely missing the point, as has been pointed out to all of you repeatedly by several different people, so I don't know what exactly you're patting yourselves on the back for.

quote:
No one is denying fantasy. But the reality is that everyone can't be a high social status, high income, buff, male idol.


Of course not! Otherwise the high social status, high income, buff male idol wouldn't be so valuable!! The reality is that women should be able to voice wanting one of these men without you and the rest of society coming in to talk us out of it... the same way that you can want a high social status, high income, sexy female idol and the world lets you "do you."

If we were all holding out for the cream, none of us would ever get married. At this point, Black women are not even holding out for the possibility of finding someone in the middle. We are reduced down to dating the damn slime just so we're not alone for the rest of our lives. And you all have a damn nerve to come and give advice about "being more realistic." It's like it's not okay for a Black woman to have ANY damn criteria without being shot down for "wanting too much."

White Men, Here I come!!
That's what I mean. With you it's either cream or slime.

You can have the goddamned white men. Go ahead. I don't want to deal with it.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
That's what I mean. With you it's either cream or slime.


"If we were all holding out for the cream, none of us would ever get married. At this point, Black women are not even holding out for the possibility of finding someone in the middle. We are reduced down to dating the damn slime just so we're not alone for the rest of our lives." (posted by Frenchy at 6:17PM)

Like I said, you aren't reading shit.

quote:
The world is not throwing gorgeous high earning women at me.

SO? I never said it was. Confused

quote:
Within the past year, I - a Doctor - dated a woman with only a high school diploma who dumped me for her convicted felon ex

That's unfortunate and deep, deep, deeeeeep underneath the disdain I feel for you right now, I am genuinely sorry to hear that. Razz But what does that have to do with the your point? It seems that she did exactly what you'd have all of us do: stop paying attention to the "cream of the crop" and go for other brothers. Seems her standards were quite broad, just as you advised. ohsnap
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:

quote:
The world is not throwing gorgeous high earning women at me.

SO? I never said it was. Confused


Remember this???:
quote:

...the same way that you can want a high social status, high income, sexy female idol and the world lets you "do you."


Frenchy, you don't read your own damned posts.

quote:

quote:
Within the past year, I - a Doctor - dated a woman with only a high school diploma who dumped me for her convicted felon ex

That's unfortunate and deep, deep, deeeeeep underneath the disdain I feel for you right now, I am genuinely sorry to hear that.... It seems that she did exactly what you'd have all of us do: stop paying attention to the "cream of the crop" and go for other brothers. Seems her standards were quite broad, just as you advised. ohsnap


OK. Now're you're putting college professors and artists on the same level as ex-cons.

I won't have this discussion with you anymore because I see how * twisted * you are upstairs and I might have to start throwing around a word that rhymes with "itch".

giveup

You win. I do not want to discuss this anymore.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:

quote:
The world is not throwing gorgeous high earning women at me.

SO? I never said it was. Confused


Remember this???:
quote:

...the same way that you can want a high social status, high income, sexy female idol and the world lets you "do you."


Frenchy, you don't read your own damned posts.


Man, you have GOT to be kidding me. The world lets you (you meaning men in general) WANT that type of woman without reprocussions. I didn't say that's what you actually GET!

quote:

quote:
Within the past year, I - a Doctor - dated a woman with only a high school diploma who dumped me for her convicted felon ex

That's unfortunate and deep, deep, deeeeeep underneath the disdain I feel for you right now, I am genuinely sorry to hear that.... It seems that she did exactly what you'd have all of us do: stop paying attention to the "cream of the crop" and go for other brothers. Seems her standards were quite broad, just as you advised. ohsnap


OK. Now're you're putting college professors and artists on the same level as ex-cons.[/quote]

YOU are the one who has been advocating that women "broaden" their idea of what the cream of the crop is and that we not go specifically for the man who makes the money or has the education. YOU are the one who took offense to the very idea that there even WAS a "cream of the crop." But I see when it involves you specifically, suddenly you have no problem with the "elitism" you derided.

quote:
I won't have this discussion with you anymore because I see how * twisted * you are upstairs and I might have to start throwing around a word that rhymes with "itch".


Give me a fucking break.

quote:
You win. I do not want to discuss this anymore.

That's cool with me.
I gave you a whole fucking list of educated professional men and none of them made the mark.

quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
What about your black artists? Sculptors? Writers? Painters? Engineers? Accountants? Scholars? Dentists? Community Activists? We have some of those you know? These aren't cream of the crop? And they're deserving men.
quote:
What about your black artists? Sculptors? Writers? Painters? Scholars? Community Activists? These aren't cream of the crop? And they're deserving men.


HB... for a lot of women (me included) these men are the cream of the crop! Dream man/men, in fact. eyes

Point is, whether they are doctors or artists, a lot of time the booty 'talks' to those men way before (or instead of) any of those similar talents in women. Flip the script, and ask yourself are any men actively seeking the same - women writers, artists, painters, etc, or do they expect booty + beauty + brain + bank balance ALL-in-one?
.
According to you, you're dating down to consider the men below

quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Here's a list of people who probably do NOT earn 6 figures or a comparable salary

Albert Einstein
Add almost any college professor to this list -(even many at Ivy League Schools)
Most teachers/administrators in junior colleges
Teachers in elementary and secondary education
Most people in literature or the arts.
Etc. I could go on if a really tried but I have a life

But my point is not that women need to "lower" their vision. They need to broaden/expand their vision.
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:

Point is, whether they are doctors or artists, a lot of time the booty 'talks' to those men way before (or instead of) those similar talents and in women. Flip the script, and ask yourself are any men actively seeking the same - women writers, artists, painters etc.


HELL. I AM. At least a woman with a mind. Someone reasonably attractive - not gorgeous or even fine - but most importantly someone that I can share with. I'm seeking a woman with a brain. Yes I am.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
HELL. I AM


lol at the risk of a slap, are you looking for the former or the latter of my post? Wink Smile
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
HELL. I AM


lol at the risk of a slap, are you looking for the former or the latter of my post? Wink Smile


I see your point. I've amended the last post. Sorry.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:

Point is, whether they are doctors or artists, a lot of time the booty 'talks' to those men way before (or instead of) those similar talents and in women. Flip the script, and ask yourself are any men actively seeking the same - women writers, artists, painters etc.


HELL. I AM. At least a woman with a mind. Someone reasonably attractive - not gorgeous or even fine - but most importsantly someone that I can share with. I'm seeking a woman with a brain. Yes I am


well big Up Ta Ya... coz that's the first freakin time I've ever heard a guy say that OUT LOUD! appl
If you want that, you'll find it. tfro
quote:
Originally posted by AudioGuy:
I also think, based upon my observation - however limited it may be, that a man will date/marry a woman regardless of her station in life... she could be working on the fryer at Mickey D's, but if she's cute she has almost as good a shot at getting a mate as a sister with a phd.

Let a brother say "I'm in charge of the fries at Mickey D's" and see how far he gets - regardless of his looks!!



bow

I can't add anymore to this argument, but I think this should be repeated as many times as necessary.
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
quote:
What about your black artists? Sculptors? Writers? Painters? Scholars? Community Activists? These aren't cream of the crop? And they're deserving men.


HB... for a lot of women (me included) these men are the cream of the crop! Dream man/men, in fact. eyes


eyes kiss eyes kiss

This is why guys like me wind up with white women.
Asking for trouble HB Big Grin

HB... there are a lot of intelligent beautiful black sistas under your nose on this site - including Frenchy!

The day I find my black artist-sculptor-community-activist though, I'll let you know lol. Smile Wink
.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by AudioGuy:
I also think, based upon my observation - however limited it may be, that a man will date/marry a woman regardless of her station in life... she could be working on the fryer at Mickey D's, but if she's cute she has almost as good a shot at getting a mate as a sister with a phd.

Let a brother say "I'm in charge of the fries at Mickey D's" and see how far he gets - regardless of his looks!!



bow

I can't add anymore to this argument, but I think this should be repeated as many times as necessary.


isn't this saying let's ditch classism, but it's OK to discriminate on looks? Like I said... for some men the booty calls before anything else ! And it could be argued that it implies... who gives a fck about her brain as long as she's a good fck. Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
HB... there are a lot of intelligent beautiful black sistas under your nose on this site - including Frenchy!


Frenchy is looking for the cream of the crop. She's dating down if she considers me. I'm unworthy of her. bow
or.... maybe she's just a smart chick who likes a good argument/discussion.

When you find your brainiac woman, don't expect too much nodding and agreeing, more like a challenge! Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
quote:
What about your black artists? Sculptors? Writers? Painters? Scholars? Community Activists? These aren't cream of the crop? And they're deserving men.


HB... for a lot of women (me included) these men are the cream of the crop! Dream man/men, in fact. eyes

Point is, whether they are doctors or artists, a lot of time the booty 'talks' to those men way before (or instead of) any of those similar talents in women.


AG, these are not talents, they're careers or occupations, or callings. That's the giant problem me and the other guys on this thread are having with this perception of a double standard. Women are looking for the different occupations listed throughout this thread. Their not looking for talent. But as I and others have said before, If that's what you want then that's what you get.


quote:
Flip the script, and ask yourself are any men actively seeking the same - women writers, artists, painters, etc,


No, men and women are not seeking the same thing! That's why this whole idea of a double standard is silly.


quote:
or do they expect booty + beauty + brain + bank balance ALL-in-one?


A lot of men are more into 'T' than 'A' + beauty is entirely subjective + there are many stupid men who can appreciate a stupid woman + I've never in my life met a man who cared in the slightest how much money a woman made.
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
And it could be argued that it implies... who gives a fck about her brain as long as she's a good fck. Roll Eyes


Actually AG, if she's got no brain then she can't be a good f*ck. laugh
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:

Actually AG, if she's got no brain then she can't be a good f*ck. laugh


good for you waving your sexist BS flag! that's a sicko comment if ever I heard one. hit

Is that one of your pick up jokes? Ha ha not.
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
We would not be in this piss-poor situation if it wasn't for the failings of Black men. Ugh.


Here we go again... You're right Frenchy! It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the choices women make. Roll Eyes
quote:
AG, these are not talents, they're careers or occupations, or callings. That's the giant problem me and the other guys on this thread are having with this perception of a double standard. Women are looking for the different occupations listed throughout this thread. Their not looking for talent. But as I and others have said before, If that's what you want then that's what you get.


lol you call the arts careers? A 'career' in the arts is more like unemployment! They are mind-sets and mindspaces not merely careers or occupations. Thanks for agreeing however that men aren't looking for cerebral talent more external 'talent'.
NOT ALL women are looking for occupations, but companions. Not all men are looking for booty uber alles, but a I'd say a heck of a lot are.

So... what are you looking for if not talent or a brain.... state your case.
.
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
NOT ALL women are looking for occupations, but companions.


We're all looking for companions. The disagreement here is how those potential companions are ranked and chosen.


quote:
Not all men are looking for booty uber alles, but a I'd say a heck of a lot are.


Why? Because we look at pictures of supermodels in g-strings?


quote:
So... what are you looking for if not talent or a brain.... state your case.
.


I already posted what men are looking for, but I'll sum it up: Flexability, Integrity, Loyalty, and a Giving Nature.

All other considerations are subjective and ultimately unimportant. But these four criteria a required for a man's long term health and happiness.

You'll notice that there is no mention of "brains, or beauty, or booty, or bank accounts".
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:

Actually AG, if she's got no brain then she can't be a good f*ck. laugh


good for you waving your sexist BS flag! that's a sicko comment if ever I heard one. hit


There is nothing sick or sexist about that comment. My experience is that good sex requires a certain amount of mental stimulation. However, that's off.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by AudioGuy:
I also think, based upon my observation - however limited it may be, that a man will date/marry a woman regardless of her station in life... she could be working on the fryer at Mickey D's, but if she's cute she has almost as good a shot at getting a mate as a sister with a phd.

Let a brother say "I'm in charge of the fries at Mickey D's" and see how far he gets - regardless of his looks!!



bow

I can't add anymore to this argument, but I think this should be repeated as many times as necessary.



DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!!
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:

Actually AG, if she's got no brain then she can't be a good f*ck.


Mea culpa DAMMIT!!
I was rushing out to Pilates and I thought it read a brain. Puts a different spin on things don't you agree.

quote:

I already posted what men are looking for, but I'll sum it up: Flexability, Integrity, Loyalty, and a Giving Nature.

I asked your criteria, not a generic 'men's' criteria.

quote:
All other considerations are subjective and ultimately unimportant.

huh? not convinced.

quote:
You'll notice that there is no mention of "brains, or beauty, or booty, or bank accounts".

guilty by omission laugh
.
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
It's like it's not okay for a Black woman to have ANY damn criteria without being shot down for "wanting too much."

White Men, Here I come!!


lol Frenchy, you are something else girl.
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:

Actually AG, if she's got no brain then she can't be a good f*ck.


Mea culpa DAMMIT!!
I was rushing out to Pilates and I thought it read a brain. Puts a different spin on things don't you agree.


Apology accepted. Wink bsm


quote:
I asked your criteria, not a generic 'men's' criteria.


Same/same. These are my criteria. I think you'll find most men are the same in this regard. We are men, after all.



quote:
quote:
All other considerations are subjective and ultimately unimportant.

huh? not convinced.


quote:
You'll notice that there is no mention of "brains, or beauty, or booty, or bank accounts".

quote:
guilty by omission laugh
.



Sigh... giveup... kiss... tfro
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
This is NOT the point, AG. No one is encouraging women to date only a Denzel. No one is saying Denzels are the only quality men. No one is saying that we want the right to hold out for a Denzel. WOMEN SHOULD HAVE THE OPTION OF STRIVING FOR A "DENZEL" WITHOUT HEARING A BUNCH OF FRIGGIN LIP ABOUT HOW WE NEED TO REFOCUS/REVISE/RETHINK BECAUSE WE DON'T DESERVE IT OR BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GIVING THE "LOWER-RUNG" OF BROTHAS A CHANCE OR WHATEVER OTHER REASON. The same way that men can strive for the prettiest available woman...
We men strive for the woman who is the prettiest available... again, regardless of her station in life... Women, on the other hand, strive for the prettiest available and the mercedes...
quote:
Let us want whatever the Hell it is we want! Sure, we may end up with something else when all is said and done, but this rush by Black men to immediately shoot down any of the Black woman's romantic/relationship aspirations...
Frenchy... back away from the computer, these are just opinions - nobdy is claiming to be Dr. Phil here.
quote:
Why should we reduce ourselves down to taking up with whoever is cute?? We expect more because we're smarter. And because we have more responsibilities.
It is not a reduction!!

quote:
Why do men feel compelled to even contribute this?
I can't speak for anybody anybody else, but I contribute to this because it is a discussion forum.
quote:
Do you think there is a Black woman alive who does not "realize the limitations" of her situation?
Quite obviously, yes.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
Actually AG, if she's got no brain then she can't be a good f*ck. laugh
When you say AG, please specify which one!!!
quote:
Originally posted by AudioGuy:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
Actually AG, if she's got no brain then she can't be a good f*ck. laugh
When you say AG, please specify which one!!!


Sorry Audio, I'll be more specific in the future. In the recent posts I was arguing with art_gurl.

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