Straight from the hood, it's rap from the street — except the hood is the Arab world, and the streets are countries in turmoil.

 

By Karl Bostic, NBC News


A bazaar in Libya's rebel capital of Benghazi might not appear to be the most obvious place to find a would-be Jay-Z.

 

But 18-year-old Boge and many others like him are pushing the boundaries of freedom of expression across the Middle East. The rappers have even been credited with helping to spark the so-called Arab Spring uprisings that deposed three long-serving dictators and rocked several other regimes.

 

Boge, who says he learned English from rap, is following in the footsteps of his hip-hop heroes KRS-One, Nas and Ice Cube.

 

"Our families are dying but yeah we're still tough, Gadhafi is trying to assassinate us," he rhymes during an impromptu performance amid vendors selling flags, shirts and hats in revolutionary colors at a market in the eastern Libyan city where the revolt against Moammar Gadhafi began.

 

Watch Boge perform in Benghazi, Libya 

 

Boge recalls how rap was treated as a criminal offense under Gadhafi's rule. Two of his friends were arrested by the once-feared secret police — who were quick to stamp out any signs of political dissent.

 

"They used to put us in prison just for rapping," says Boge, who grew up on a diet of Western TV and American hip hop. "I rap to prove something to myself — and the world."

 

 

 

This phenomenon is not just confined to Libya. Rap music has inspired freedom fighters and pro-democracy protesters from Tunisia to Bahrain.

 

When 20-year-old Tunisian rapper Hamada Ben Amor — known as "El General" — attacked President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali in a song he posted online late last year it captured the imagination of a population hooked on Facebook and fed-up with injustice. 

 

Entitled "Rais Lebled," the song chastised Tunisia's leader for not listening to his people who were "living like dogs" and forced to drink from a "cup of suffering." El General was subsequently arrested but his anthem helped to ignite the spark which eventually ended with thousands of people taking to the streets in January. Ben Ali later fled the country.

 

 

 

 

At one recent concert in Monastir, the youthful crowd was filled with as much love for El General as they were for their country, repeatedly shouting "Vive Tunisie" (Long live Tunisia).

 

The same infectious brand of rap, revolution, and patriotism was evident in Cairo as Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak was forced out of office after decades of rule and also amongst Palestinians in the West Bank, who face different challenges in staging their own "thawra" — or revolution.

 
 

The significant factor is youth: 60 percent people in the Arab world are aged under 30. Rap popularized calls for reform and the Internet spread that message like wildfire.

 

Hip-hop artist Omar Offendum tells NBC's Karl Bostic that the youth are fed up with what is happening in the Middle East.

Some of the leading names in movement include:

Egyptian hip-hop artist 'Deeb' says it is "beautiful" to see hip-hop become the language of revolution.

 

Watch Omar Offendum perform 'The Time is Now'

 

Back in Libya, Boge admits that he hopes rap will give him the opportunity to travel. Following the fall of Tripoli, he will have new songs to sing about a free Libya.

 

Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

 
 BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE.
Original Post

  Black music [however used] is universal.  It is powerful, truthseeking....poignant.  Unfortunately in this country [United States] it has been used to pimp/rape/demoralize it's original creators through violence, drugs and destructive behavior....if it had been  utilized properly/appropriately i.e. rap music  we as black people would  be further in the "game."  However, that's not the case....more of us are further in prison institutions and dysfunctional behaviors than ever in the history of being in this country.  It is interesting how the same music method reversed has provided a totally different outcome.  But!  I'm just sayin    

 

There has always been a generation gap that saw those who are older condemn the music of choice of the younger generation. The fact of the matter is that rap music is no different. People who are older are simply out of step with the reality of the youth. There were 714 murders in the city of Detroit in 1973, when rap music was not even born. There were heroin dealers, drug gangs and all type of criminal activities. There were men cheating on women and women cheating on men, men disrespecting women and women disrespecting men. To blame these social and cultural ills on rap music is simply a red herring.
 

When you eat an orange you don’t eat the peel. Often time rap music tells a very powerful story…..that’s delivered with a sour peel that turns people off, like ER, but once you peel back the layers you find a very socially nutrient rich core. That is not true for all raps, but there are a lot of rap artist that it is true for. I posted some clips from Danny Brown, an underground rapper from Detroit. If one cannot visualize the pain of his life and surroundings from raps, and not feel anything but contempt, then we have thrown away the black underclass (which is now growing faster than the black upper-class).

 

 

 

Willie the kid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJerV5nmYsA

 

Danny Brown (deep...but raw)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeDb71A1f2U

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgQEHwQY_-U

 

Last edited by Noah The African

I think that rap artists are being exploited by the music industry and being used as a racist propaganda tool to further the demonization of Black people and to brainwash young Black males into a self-destructive self-fulfilling prophecy syndrome.  I don't think that it is mere coincidence or just money that keeps the young intelligent rappers from being able to break out or that the rappers that are the most popular today are the ones with nothing to say that is not glamourizing or promoting violence, misogynism of Black women, thug life, drug dealing, killing and materialism over education.  

 

 

I am so disappointed in Russell Simmons (among others), who has so much influence in the rap business and so much respect from young rappers, because he has to be intelligent enough to see that rap music, the art of rap, is a global medium for the disenfranchised, the oppressed, those that are not yet free, for all the people of the world who do not have the money or influence to get signed with a major record company to spread their message throughout the world, yet, he does not promote any young artists/rappers that have something to say, something that ALL the oppressed people in the world need to hear.  

 

Rap was propaganda that governments, politicians and government propaganda machines could not contain, manipulate and control, therefore, evidently, they have gotten all the major music companies and entities to control what will be heard by the masses, by making sure that only the nonsense, non-political, division-over-unity rap is popular and played day in and day out over the world's airways.  

 

 

 

 

 

That is the result of free market capitalism. The music that is being produced is the music that is in greatest demand. If you want to know were the minds of Americans are, simply look at the most popular sites on the internet. It’s the X-rated sites that have the highest hits. That is what this nation covets.


When hip hop was mostly an African American created and purchase driven phenomenon that is when the content was much more socially conscious.  When the genre went main stream the free market choice of non-blacks began to alter the type of music that was produced. The pro-black socially conscious rappers did not make the kind of money that the cross over rappers did. The cross over rappers made so much money that new rap artist sought to emulate their content. This is why I rarely listen to mainstream rap that they play on the radio. It’s the underground rap or hip hop scene that you will find the socially conscious music.


Rapping is now a career occupation. This is how many people make their living and many would be (and many are) hustling in the streets pushing dope, robberies and the like, if it was not for rap. This is how they survive so they have tough choices to make in regards to content. Do they try to create the type of music that does not sell….and eventually fail (and end up back in the streets hustling) or do they jump on the bandwagon and dumb down their content to make sales and survive?  It’s easy for those who are not walking in their shoes to pass judgment, but when you are trying to survive and eat the pressure to go the more lucrative way is compelling. Now, once a rapper makes it big and has earned millions, they SHOULD start creating more socially conscious lyrics. However, what people need to understand is that once the system promotes you……you in turn promote the system. When rappers find big success personally, America looks and feels a lot different from when they were bound and gagged in the hood. They are no longer the disenfranchised, but rather, among the monetary elite and upper class. Essentially they become converted to the system and hence will not speak out against the system because the system has just made them rich.

 

If you really want to impact the content of rap......make an effort to seek out conscious rappers and BUY THERE CD or I-Tunes. Otherwise the fact that no one buys good content only ensures bad content will keep being produced.

Last edited by Noah The African

 

 

There has always been a generation gap that saw those who are older condemn the music of choice of the younger generation. The fact of the matter is that rap music is no different. People who are older are simply out of step with the reality of the youth.

 

My brotha that is TOTALLY untrue.  First, young people didn't just get HATCHED, they were born into families.  And evolved into pre-teens then to adolescents.  Secondly, the gap generation in terms of music is probably true, except for the fact that it too is an evolvution from other music genres reflected in the generation during its conception.  But to be blunt!....rap is just poetry to music.  And this rap generation isn't the first to come up with its concept.  A group called the Last Poets began the trek as well as Gil Scott Heron...but it was in revolutionary form...the same form reflected in the middle east.  It is just rap music but it has been AROUND long before so-called rap artists began raping its power turning into self-hate, black on black destruction, mygnoist degrading...and straight out CRAP!  No message.  Just violence and stupidity.

 

As a teacher of music history, I think you are missing the point.  Music has always been the DRUM beating in social change throughout history.  Age hasn't a THANG to do with it....but!  Change...evolution does. 

 

Now if you wanna talk about condemnation...massa condemned black music in the 50s when whiteboys started performing it....callin it n***gger music and banned from being played on white radio stations.  Elvis Presley was one of the n*gger lovers who was imitating the likes of Little Richard, BB King, Chuck Berry and many many others.  In fact, they wouldn't show his dancing legs on television [Ed Sullivan Show] cuz they said it mimick n*gger dancing.  

 

There were 714 murders in the city of Detroit in 1973, when rap music was not even born. There were heroin dealers, drug gangs and all type of criminal activities.

 

Yes but these behaviors were not being glorified until gangsta rap[which in my view isn't music].

 

There were men cheating on women and women cheating on men, men disrespecting women and women disrespecting men. To blame these social and cultural ills on rap music is simply a red herring.

 

Yes, but it wasn't glorified until gangsta rap raised its ugly head.  As a matter of fact, back in the day black music was used to woo women....flatter women....praise the beauty of women....not call them hoes, bitches and cunts.  Just keeping it real.  I never heard the Temptations call a woman a whore...I didn't hear it from Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson, The Four Tops or even the Spinners.  So yes...I will DEFINITELY blame rap music for these notorious betrayals....especially to women who could be their mothers, sisters, aunts, grandmothers or any female member of their families.  Rappers have no LOYALTY to their people.  Nada.  It is SHOWN and HEARD in their rap songs  which they MISTAKENLY call music.  In my day ANY age group from a toddler to a granny could dance to the beat of African American music and have FUN.  With this so called rap music?  Not at all.  I ONLY hear gun fire.  What about you?  What do you hear? 


When you eat an orange you don’t eat the peel. Often time rap music tells a very powerful story…..that’s delivered with a sour peel that turns people off,

What story are you referring to?  How he is gonna KILL this person for wearing a different color shoe string?  Or how he gonna KILL that person for disrespecting him or looking at him funny?  What powerful story are you referring to?  Not the civil right movement?  Or the two generations of young people who have DIED as a result of this poison called music?  Where is the power.....my brotha?  The drugs they always talk about?  The strippers they always degrade?  The guns and alcohol they always glorify.?  What. Power. ARE.  YOU.  TALKING ABOUT?  The prison of lifers?  What?  I really wanna know about this so-called power.  Cuz here's a secret.  Currently young blackfolks in this generation of rap music/thinking have no  power.  I repeat they have no power. You cannot be powerful in jail or in the ground.  Impossible! 

 

 like ER, but once you peel back the layers you find a very socially nutrient rich core.

 

Socially nutrient rich core?  Are you bananas?  It's POISON!!!!!  It is the propaganda of self-hate.  Self-destruction.  It doesn't glorify love....it glorifies MURDER of your OWN people.  Therefore it is powerless.  It is not powerful like gospel music...the first genre...which help FREE the slaves.  Now that was power.  It did something compelling, inspirational and motivating.  What exactly is rap music doing other than spewing hate toward each other i.e. black on black.  As far as telling how it is in the "hood', all folks have to do is walk outside and see it for themselves.  It is at every corner in the inner city.  It is not HIDING.  It is right there....so there is really no need to "rap" about it....it is a need to eradicate it....remove it, replace it, to enrich and provide the betterment of society.  Does rap music do that?  Hell nawl!  It kills the SOUL of up and coming blackfolks....it dismantles the spirit of up and coming blackfolks.....words are powerful....But!  rap music?  Again...it is nothing but poison to the young mind...it is not....I repeat...it is not creative self expression.  What it is...is self-hate/self-genocide through empty words that serves no one and no purpose.  But!  I'm not sayin

Last edited by Kocolicious

Koco,

One person’s glorification is simply another person’s story. It’s like…..I cannot go to a predominately white forum and talk about black history in America, as an explanation for our present, without being told that I am an angry black man. No matter how much I consider myself to be driven by logic, people will claim that I am angry and driven by hate. It’s the same here with Obama. No matter how much I am driven by the logic of what promotes black socioeconomic uplift, in my opposition to the president, I am viewed as an “Obama” hater, which is not true at all but people will swear that I am. So when people say that individuals are glorifying violence, when all they are doing is speaking about the life that surrounds them and that many have lived, that is not glorification. Some people actually do not take no shit and they rap about it, because that is a true reflection of their life.  It’s just like me going to a white forum and talking about black history. There is no way that I can tell the story in its full truth without many questioning my motives. There is no way to tell the story of the REALITY of the inner-city without someone coming and saying that you are glorifying it. That is just the way it’s always going to be.


The thing is this. Koco, I doubt very seriously that you listen to enough rap music to speak intelligently about it.


The thing is this. Koco, I doubt very seriously that you listen to enough rap music to speak intelligently about it.

 

My brotha even though there are those who say you are not as young as I think.  I beg the differ.  In your commentary it SCREAMS!  Was that an insult about how you think I cannot speak "intelligently" on rap music? Okay I'm gonna let that go for now.  But to respond to your statement.  No presently I don't listen to ignorance and stupidity that's reflected in rap music cuz every other word is mofo, bitch, kill your azz....so I can't decipher the message.  Is there one?  And to be fair to my students, I have listened to a couple of rappers....but!  My opinion stays firm.  It is NOT music.  Cuz it does NOT promote critical thinking....what it does promote is ignorance and stupidity...AND violence.

 

Years ago, I used to write so-call rap songs just to show my students it doesn't take a genius to put words together with music beats from a keyboard...but!  The difference?  My words had meaning/depth....and promoted thinking about consequences to bad behavior.  I even went on tour locally to prove again[and for other reasons that]....it doesn't take a rocket scientist to be a rap star.   This was during my hatred for blacks for killin my son days. Yep I was kinda crazy then and on a mission.  So I would sport those coffee houses/parties/detention centers and perform for my young audience.  I would give you a little taste of my flavor....but!  You know for anonomous[sp] and copyrights reasons I regretably have to reframe.  Even had a music producer[helping me outta pity]....and alladat but!  I found once the kids discovererd what I was saying even though the music was good....they stopped listening to the words.  Those kids were at the coffee houses/parties. But the kids in the detention centers had no choice...they had to listen to its entirety.  What I have found personally....is that if rap music doesn't have fowl language, threats, brainless  disrespect while telling a hype up story of untruths...even if the music/beats are whacked....some are immediately TURNED off.  Music is supposed to be universal.

 

 Having said that, later on....when I returned for a follow-up at one of the detention centers I actually had several detached young folks come up to me and tell me that when they got back to their dormitory they thought about what I said.   For many, rap music hasn't processed though the brain cuz of the loud beats...so oftentimes young people are "wrapped up" in the LOUD sounds of the rap song as the words subconsciously brainwash their thinking. 

 

Just know my brotha.  I don't just talk outta the sides of my neck just for conversation...a lotta of what I say is as a result of experience.  Therefore it is my findings that "rap" music has devained socialization among many young folks.  Some youths today do not have the social skills or negoitation ability to interact with each other peacefully.  The evidence and proof are in prisons, gravesites, gangs, homelessness and the elevated rate of high school dropouts  AND during drive-by shooting attempts we hear about everyday!  Unfortunately we as blackfolks have ignored the signals for more than 30 years.  I just tellin you what I know.  Whitefolks don't care cuz they, as Sista Sunnubian points out, have made a lotta money off of it.  But to whose expense?  Ours.  Now you can say whatcha want.  You can say that I am outta touch....alladat!  But I have jumped in.....I'm not standing on the sidelines.  How about you?  Cuz another thing I have found there are no definite answers to this dysfunction crippling our culture......only hardwork.  And rap music in my opinion has unraveled a lotta of hard work of devoted blackfolks wanting their people to move forward successfully.  Cuz as of right now [this is real life] our young people despite what story is being told through rap music are continously chasing their tails.  If they need to tell a story as you suggest rap music does....then they need to turn off the CD and go to school.  Many of em need to learn how to read and write. Graduate or get their GED.  Then write a book...and promote that.  It's called not being YOUR past.  It's called resolution toward your destination.  Cuz as you say...everybody has a story....the difference is what are YOU gonna do about your story....keep "rappin" about it?  Cuz the same stories can get REAL old.  But realistic/tangible resolutions don't.   But!  I'm just sayin   
    

Last edited by Kocolicious

@ sunnubian and Koco ............... 

 

The only thing I would add is ....

 

Rap was propaganda that governments, politicians and government propaganda machines could not contain, manipulate and control, therefore, evidently, they have gotten all the major music companies and entities to control what will be heard by the masses, by making sure that only the nonsense, non-political, division-over-unity rap is popular and played day in and day out over the world's airways. 

 

 

I don't believe that it's governmental entities that control the record labels to promote that garbage.  It's the (White-owned) record labels/execs/industry all by themselves that make sure that the worst possible imagery and lyrics are blasted over our airwaves and kill the minds of our young.

 

And they do it for one reason ... and one reason only .... GREED!!!  They don't give a damn about the artists, any "divisions" caused by it - especially in our communities -  what adverse affects it may have ..... on anybody or anything, in a social context!!! 

 

ALL they care about is the millions they hope to make by the middle- and upper-class, rebellious and easily negatively-influenced WHITE teen-aged and young adult audience (here in the States, as well as the various other non-Black race/ethnic groups worldwide) that they KNOW are going to be the ones to spend the money to actually purchase the song/video!!!

 

Black people are NOT the financial engine behind rap industry.  They don't buy ... they bootleg/steal/copy/burn ... far more than they purchase!!    The record execs/industry uses these so-called "artists" to be self-depreciating, caricature "minstrels" just like 'showbiz managers' did back in the day ... but, it's those who support the "shows" that are the real targets.  And like good little "n*gg*r puppets" our kids are all too ready to be the next "I'm gonna make you a star!" act to perform .... only to end up being paid pennies for their "work" in the end. 

Let me ask you an honest question Koco. What do you say to white folks whose only knowledge of black folks comes from the evening news or a few bad apples that they have run into and hence think black people are violent and ignorant? You would call them small minded and ignorant, I would think. Well, the fact they you form a judgment on a genre, based upon a small sample set, makes your opinion small minded and ignorant as well. I am not calling you, in general, small minded and ignorant, but that your opinion on this topic is such.


It’s amazing to me how people can go watch R rated movies, with bad language,  violence, nudity and other perversions, and ENJOY the movie but then try and act puritanical when it comes to the lyrics in some rap music. Moreover, you find the same thing in standup comedy, but rappers are held to a different standard apparently.


By the way I am in my 40’s. I mostly listen to roots reggae and the Jazz from the Cole Trane era. There is a lot of garbage rap, but there is a lot of garbage TV, Movies and a host of other things. However, you just have to know where to go to find the good stuff. Danny Brown has become my favorite rapper because he puts out some DEEP, PERSONAL and PAINFUL truths of his life and environment. He also puts out some terrible socially irredeemable stuff too…..but I don’t listen to that stuff. If I promote his good stuff (and others) then he will put out more good stuff. If I promote his bad stuff then he will put out more bad stuff. What’s supplied is what’s demanded. It’s free market economics.

 

If you want to rid America of bad rap music....you and those like you need to go out and SUPPORT GOOD RAP MUSIC WITH YOUR DOLLARS!!! Most rappers are trying to make money. You can control the content of whats produced by voting with your dollar purchases. If you are not willing to do that....then you are just an arm chair critic.

Originally Posted by Noah The African:

By the way I am in my 40’s. I mostly listen to roots reggae and the Jazz from the Cole Trane era.

-----------------------------------------------------

 

See, Ms. Koco!!!  I told ya!! 

 

Girl, please .... thanks to the way I was raised .... I have been brought up interacting with a truly diverse group of individuals all my life!!!

 

I can tell a 'young fool' from an 'old fool' at 50 paces .... one eye blindfolded .... and my ears pinned to the back of my head!!! 

Originally Posted by EbonyRose:
Originally Posted by Noah The African:

I can tell a 'young fool' from an 'old fool' at 50 paces .... one eye blindfolded .... and my ears pinned to the back of my head!!! 

 

One can only glean that thou hast a keen grasp of thyself, given your "gift" of spotting fools.

Last edited by Noah The African

First of all...my dear young brotha...only time will get you ready.  Cuz you're not listening and when you don't listen...how in the world can you EVER learn?  Secondly, the example of gospel being the original genre of African American music is true.  If you know your history and you have proven you do not, gospel music was used as a psychology weapon to use against slavery.  Slaves used it as signal to those wanting to escape the plantation secretly ...therefore sending information where to meet in religious song.  The overseers thought the slaves were singing about going home or meeting Jesus but in actuality they were planning the route to Canada or places up north where slaves could be free.  If you pull out a old gospel song/hymns....and listen to it/or read it you will hear/or see the message....but!  Your take you butt to the library and find out how African American music genres evolved.  That's not my job....I teach children....not adults.  But it clearly appears you are in deep need of Black History 101.  As for whitefolks?  I have run ins with them cuz they want to minimize our accomplishments in this country and I won't let 'em.

 

 One time I was at a boytown school for students who crimes wouldn't allow them to go to regular school, and I was talking about how Malcolm X self-taught himself in prison and the whole nine yards....and one of the social workers came up to me and asked me why was it so important to introduce a man that didn't like Jews?  And I gave her a look...and she left me the fock alone.  And I continued with  my presentation.  I don't play with whitefolks to answer your question.  I go toe to toe with them regarding our black children.  When I do my thang with these bays bays I don't hold back.  I talk about the REAL reason behind Willie Lynch and how it was deliberate that slaves didn't know that they came from a civilized world much more civilized than Europe.  I recommend books for them to read to find out for themselves.  The white folks i.e. psychologist, psychiatrist, counselor, teachers etc didn't like it...but!  They continued inviting back to talk to the kids.  So whether they agreed with the information I was giving or not....they saw the difference it made with the kids...not only with the black kids but the white, asian, native american and samoan bangers who were also in attendance during these required assemblies.    

 

I am not calling you, in general, small minded and ignorant, but that your opinion on this topic is such.

 

Yes you are.  You're calling me small minded and ignorant....but!  Sticks and stones my brotha.  I can PROVE everything I say.  Now I don't profess to know everything...but!  My  history...I know quite thoroughly.  How about you?   Just so you know...I can give a sweet fock if you thought what I was/am saying deem ignorant or not.  I am who I am.  And as of yet, I know you can't bring back the dead, walk on water...none of that.  So your vote in terms of my life or how I think...DON'T COUNT!  And you're NOT my president.  So.  Really.  No points.

My response is too long....so I'm gonna continue on  another post.

 

 

 
 
 
 
Last edited by Kocolicious


It’s amazing to me how people can go watch R rated movies, with bad language,  violence, nudity and other perversions, and ENJOY the movie but then try and act puritanical when it comes to the lyrics in some rap music.

 

I don't do that my brotha.  So you're definitely not talking about ME.  I have no desire to watch trash.  Sorry.

 

Moreover, you find the same thing in standup comedy, but rappers are held to a different standard apparently.

 

You have a point there.  But again..I don't listen to stand up if every other word is mofo, bitch, whore etc.  Now I have been tricked.  Like I did listen to Katt Williams...and there are some comedians who do use fowl language but not to the degree of how some gangsta rappers expressed themselves.  And if they do, these comedians? I refuse to listen.  Bottom line.


By the way I am in my 40’s. I mostly listen to roots reggae and the Jazz from the Cole Trane era.

 

I knew you were a young tender.  It is displayed in the way you express yourself.  I have 78s of John Coltrane, Dexter Gordon, Monk....most of the greats. I even have some 33 albums too.  You know what those are....don't you?  Anyway I take those to the detention centers and when these young people hear them that raw kinda jazz for the first time....you can literally hear a pin drop.  Now that I know you're kinda young, I'm not let you ruffle my feathers.  Cuz you have a lot in front of you my brotha....keep on pushin' and you will SEE what I'm talking about one day.  As a matter of fact I'm gonna do you a favor, as I look for books for Sista Sunnubian, I will look for a couple of books in my library for you in regards to rap music-the whole dynamics and how it changed how black youth begin to see themselves...alladat psychological, social and behavioral stuff.

 

There is a lot of garbage rap, but there is a lot of garbage TV, Movies and a host of other things. However, you just have to know where to go to find the good stuff. Danny Brown has become my favorite rapper because he puts out some DEEP, PERSONAL and PAINFUL truths of his life and environment. He also puts out some terrible socially irredeemable stuff too…..but I don’t listen to that stuff. If I promote his good stuff (and others) then he will put ououtt more good stuff. If I promote his bad stuff then he will put out more bad stuff. What’s supplied is what’s demanded. It’s free market economics.

 

Yes...but!  That's like buying bad food.  Once you eat it ....you will eventually pay for it in the end...if you know what I mean.  It's the same thang.

 

If you want to rid America of bad rap music....you and those like you need to go out and SUPPORT GOOD RAP MUSIC WITH YOUR DOLLARS!!! Most rappers are trying to make money. You can control the content of whats produced by voting with your dollar purchases. If you are not willing to do that....then you are just an arm chair critic.

 

  Rap music does not interest me.  Nada.  I just want to let you know as I tell the kids...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to write a rap song....but!  If you're gonna write it....have a message.  Killing is not a message...it is destructive irreversible behavior.  Two different unrelated things that do not have a thang in common....but!  I'm just sayin

Last edited by Kocolicious

Sista ER wrote: 

See, Ms. Koco!!!  I told ya!! 

 

Girl, please .... thanks to the way I was raised .... I have been brought up interacting with a truly diverse group of individuals all my life!!!

 

I hear ya my sista....but!  Now that I know how young....man!  It makes perfect sense.  It truly does.  But.  I have to admit you were right! 

Sista ER wrote: Black people are NOT the financial engine behind rap industry.  They don't buy ... they bootleg/steal/copy/burn ... far more than they purchase!!  

 

The record execs/industry uses these so-called "artists" to be self-depreciating, caricature "minstrels" just like 'showbiz managers' did back in the day ... but, it's those who support the "shows" that are the real targets.  And like good little "n*gg*r puppets" our kids are all too ready to be the next "I'm gonna make you a star!" act to perform .... only to end up being paid pennies for their "work" in the end. 

 

  I TOTALLY agree.  And then it like....being a slave all over again.  So it seems our young people are going backwards chasing a dream toooo far to reach cuz they are facing forward.  Tragic.

 

Koco,

 

No matter how much you try....its just a logical fallacy to form an opinion from a flawed unscientific sampling of the whole. You are forming your opinion about rap with the same flawed logic and prejudice that whites have formed opinion about blacks. No matter how GOOD you or your family are, as black people, some ignorant white person who formed their opinion of blacks from flawed, prejudiced and self reinforcing sampling, will view YOU as a lazy, shiftless, violent, want something for nothing coon. In fact, such people only LOOK for the type of blacks that reinforce their prejudice so that they can hold onto the prejudice as valid. A person with a hammer will only look for nails. Rap music has thousands of artists and millions of songs. How many of those millions of songs have you used to form your opinion about the whole of the genre? I rest my case. You would make a good white racist with the way your reason. The only problem is that you are black, but you reason with the ignorance of a white racist.

 

  Okay my brotha....I'm done.  I'm gonna erase my example. 

 

No matter how much you try....its just a logical fallacy to form an opinion from a flawed unscientific sampling of the whole. You are forming your opinion about rap with the same flawed logic and prejudice that whites have formed opinion about blacks.

 

What the hell are you talkin' about?  unscientific sampling?  GTFOH!!!!  I was free-stylin...I wasn't doing an experiment.  OMG!  Sumthing seriously is goin' WRONG in that head of  yours...and it's frustrating cuz you are NOT open to other folks spin...you are  suffering from a false consensus effect...where you believe  YOUR twisted limited belief[of how whitefolks perceive us as black people] is shared by all of white society....and that overzealous and unnnecessary concern is giving them too much undeserved power.  

 

 No matter how GOOD you or your family are, as black people, some ignorant white person who formed their opinion of blacks from flawed, prejudiced and self reinforcing sampling, will view YOU as a lazy, shiftless, violent, want something for nothing coon. In fact, such people only LOOK for the type of blacks that reinforce their prejudice so that they can hold onto the prejudice as valid.

 

But for clarity...I don't give a fock what whitefolks THINK!  That ship sailed a long time ago.  You are putting too much emphasis on sumthing you cannot control.  You cannot control how THEY perceive us.  Who cares?  Just do you.  The continual problem we have in our community is that some of us [like you] are toooo focused on massa's perception of us instead of putting that focus on those who desperately NEEDS it-our children.  They are the ones who should have the primary focus of the black community's attention-no other group of folks.

 

By the way, based on your commentary you are totally suspended in the 1940s my brotha.  Cuz from where I stand these rappers are the ones confirming the wicked perception of how white folks by your description view us.  See you like to the distract the main issue in discussions [I've noticed that] by using a method called fraudulent approach.  Cuz the evidence of our accomplishments and unprecedent breakthroughs are present every where in the United States of America.  Therefore dismantling all untruths about us [told/and thought by whitefolks of] being incapable of achieving human successes.  So everyone can see including whitefolks that blacks are not those things you described above.  And whether or not some still believe it...that's on THEM.  Your method will never work on me....cuz the proof as I have brought forth to you in various ways is VALID no matter how you may IGNORE it or look at the glass darkly or half full....the truth is some black youth are STILL killing/destroying themselves.  This massive volume of self-hate was NEVER in my community growing up.  And it appears that it has been in yours for sooooooo long and therefore as a result your mindset has adjusted to it to the point where you cannot conscious or subconscious identify what I am saying to you without you going into this tailspin of total denial.    I feel sorry for you...I really do.

 

A person with a hammer will only look for nails. Rap music has thousands of artists and millions of songs. How many of those millions of songs have you used to form your opinion about the whole of the genre? I rest my case.

 

My brotha....you have no case.  That's just your OPINION.  Have YOU listened to millions of songs of rap music?  If you have then it's your "value judgment" of something-not mine.  Value judgment is a personal evaluation/opinion not a general consensus of the populus. 

 

You would make a good white racist with the way your reason.

 

See?  Remember when I said when folks don't  have a good argument, they start filling up the gaps by slinging insults?  That's what you continue to do with me. But!  I'm used to it.  You see I don't a sweet fock about YOUR opinion of me...cuz why?  You will NEVER be the leader in my life.  So kick rocks.  It will NEVER change who I am.  Cuz I can say to you that you are the greatest example of a hoodrat evolved-but I won't.  Cuz why?  The proof is in the pudding....all one who [with common sense] has to do is read your commentary and come to their own conclusion as to who you are as a black man.  I don't have to go there....and why would I?  My argument regarding this issue isn't to convince you of ANYTHING....cuz it is what is it no matter what you say....cuz the evidence of what I'm saying is living large in prisons, jails, on drugs...etc.  It's ramifications are visible for the eyes to see.  But if you look blindly....really there's nothing anyone can do.

 

The only problem is that you are black, but you reason with the ignorance of a white racist.

 

Well...I can go on a tangant about how the black responsibility of our community dissolved in a huge scale by selfish blackfolks...and alladat.  But that would be like a grown woman talking in full language to an infant.  I just won't go there.  This is just a lesson you will have to learn as you go...on your own.  You tried to insult in another post saying I am cognitive etc.  But really that's the pot calling the kettle...so look in the mirror at your own discretions as a black man....and then come back and talk to me.  This time with a little maturity/lessons learned under your belt.  Cuz anybody who can read and write....can scribble long untruths on a forum and make it sound good and convincing....but!  It takes a profound man to understand where he needs to go to  revisit some of the unkind things [unrelated to the issue] he has said to a black woman[where is YOUR loyalty as you try to dismiss mine]....just to prove his weak point on a subject he do not or could not have the ability to fully understand.....yet.  But as I said earlier sticks and stones...my brotha.  Sticks and stones.  Cuz you acting just like how "little boys" act when they can't get their way....but!

The origin of this conversation between us was a claim you made about rap music. I don't care to bother with your "free sylin'" because it neither proves nor disproves your claim about rap music. Whether you give a fock or not about what white folks thinks is not germane to the IGNORANCE of those whites who form opinions about the WHOLE of black folks, from a faulty sample of the few. Whether you give a fock or not about such ignorance from whites is neither here nor there. I was simply juxtaposing the flawed logic that they use with the flawed logic that you use. Its one and the same. Its an opinion formed of the whole based an unscientific sampling from the few. You can fillibuster and digress all day but I stand by my statement that you don't listen to enough rap music to have an informed intelligent opinion.

The origin of this conversation between us was a claim you made about rap music. I don't care to bother with your "free sylin'" because it neither proves nor disproves your claim about rap music.

 

It was an example.  EXAMPLE.  It was an example.  A claim my brotha is a statement either true or false.  My statement within my claim is to argue that rap music especially gangsta is NOT music.  This argument is supported by two parts:  the premise[claim]...the REASON/REASONS for believing the statement to be true and the conclusion that supports that belief.  I have given you SEVERAL. Any more information on this issue, I  would have to enroll you in one of my afterschool programs and assign you a seat upfront.

 

Whether you give a fock or not about what white folks thinks is not germane to the IGNORANCE of those whites who form opinions about the WHOLE of black folks, from a faulty sample of the few.

 

Again...why you CARE what whitefolks thinks about blacks? Why is that sooooooo important/troubling to you?  You need to investigate that my brotha. 

 

Whether you give a fock or not about such ignorance from whites is neither here nor there. I was simply juxtaposing the flawed logic that they use with the flawed logic that you use.

 

Again.  YOUR opinion.  Not fact.  My flawed logic as you call it...is well documented in prisons, gravesites, courts, neighborhoods all over America. I would say that supports my claim.   Where is your [documented] claim that disproves this?

 

Its one and the same. Its an opinion formed of the whole based an unscientific sampling from the few. You can fillibuster and digress all day but I stand by my statement that you don't listen to enough rap music to have an informed intelligent opinion.

 

First, I never answered the question to you whether or not I listened to millions of rap music.  I find that an impossible expectation/or task.  However,  I did answer earlier that I once did listen to some rap and did not consider it music.  Just so YOU know there is NOTHING intelligent about rap music...especially gangsta rap from where I and MANY folks stand.  I'm not the only one who see it this way.  Cuz it has been proven to be a dysfunction mindset for the current generation that often times can promote violence and irresponsible behaviors.   I stand on my position on this.  I will not bend.  You can continue to insult my intelligence all you want cuz you are NOT responsible for how I think, how I process information gathered or how I perceive life.  Thank God!  We will just have to disagree on this issue.   And while you are processing all of this...grow up!  

The argument is not whether or not rap is music or not. You keep missing the original point and creating diversionary point. I think about what white people think because what white people thought led to over 2 centuries of slavery and a century of Jim Crow. I would be a damn fool not to keep track of a thought process that has oppressed my people.....lest it sneak up and oppress us again.

 

Whatever sister....I stand by my assertion that you don't listen to enough rap to have an intelligent opinion about it.

  You know my brotha when you're driving through LIFE, you are supposed to focus on the journey of the BIG picture[just like driving in a car]....not just a narrow view of a particular destination....but!  Whatever young brotha!  There are many other REASONS why we are where are today.  We have managed to oppress ourselves in our limited thinking about our own responsibility toward each other as a people...and there's no one to blame about that but WHOM? So.  Word.  I'm done.

@ Ms Koco ....  I'm sorry ... but I'm afraid you misunderstood me, Sis!!

 

I don't consider anything about Noah neither "young" nor "tender"!!    "In his 40s" means he's waaay .... waaaaaaay too old for whatever is going on in his head at this point!!   He's supposed to have learned BETTER by now!!  And the fact that he hasn't "got it" .... means it's probably never coming to him!! 

 

As you know .... most of us have been together here for  LONG time!!!  And though I'm itching to, I won't call no specific names here ... but suffice it say .... there are several of our "young(er)" people ... who started off with your typical youthful delusions of the world around them .... some as "hot heads" who didn't/wouldn't/couldn't listen to reason at that time ....who, now in their mid/early 30s, are/have developed (as they should!!!) into VERY conscientious and thoughtful and MATURE adult-thinking individuals!!! 

 

They are encountering the age of understanding of "if only I knew then what I know now!" and it is my belief that the knowledge and information they are obtaining at this point, they will put to GOOD use and BE the 'foot soldiers' we need to advance our cause!!! 

 

But NOAH?????    Same (youthful ignorance) delusions .... just a different damn year decade.    Hell ... he's still throwing " Black people voted for President Obama " tantrums ... 3 years after the fact!!  And actually STARTED having that hissy fit 2 years before the election even happened!!!   He has not "evolved" the way most "young" people do into the middle-aged man that he is today!! 

 

So .... no .... he doesn't get any kind of "young'un" pass from me!!!  He's too old to be acting like he doesn't know any better.  The fact of the matter is that he just DOESN'T.  Know any better, that is!!   

 

But ..... he's family.   He's like one of them 'cousins' that come to the family reunions ... and nobody wants to be the one to open the door and let him in ... but he finds his way through the back gate anyway .... .

 

My hope is that .... with the way he thinks ... he just doesn't become part of the problem ... and manages to stay out of the way of any real solutions. 

Sista ER wrote: 

@ Ms Koco ....  I'm sorry ... but I'm afraid you misunderstood me, Sis!!

 

I am afraid YOU’RE soooooo right.   

 

I don't consider anything about Noah neither "young" nor "tender"!!    "In his 40s" means he's waaay .... waaaaaaay too old for whatever is going on in his head at this point!!   He's supposed to have learned BETTER by now!!  And the fact that he hasn't "got it" .... means it's probably never coming to him!! 

 

After having these circular discussions with him, it is CLEAR that although he is in his 40s, he is very much immature and UNCOOKED.  I finally got it!  You are exactly RIGHT!  He is way way way too old for whatever is going on in that head of his.  But! Got it!  Whew.  Took me a while to realize this. 

 

As you know .... most of us have been together here for  LONG time!!!  And though I'm itching to, I won't call no specific names here ... but suffice it say .... there are several of our "young(er)" people ... who started off with your typical youthful delusions of the world around them .... some as "hot heads" who didn't/wouldn't/couldn't listen to reason at that time ....who, now in their mid/early 30s, are/have developed (as they should!!!) into VERY conscientious and thoughtful and MATURE adult-thinking individuals!!! 

 

You are right again.  I guess I was torn by his childish tantrums which in my view is a very disturbin sign of [how you say quote unquote] "younguns".  I gotta tell ya my sista I REALLY should HAVE listened to you the first time around....but!  Stubborn me I had to learn the hard way.    

 

They are encountering the age of understanding of "if only I knew then what I know now!" and it is my belief that the knowledge and information they are obtaining at this point, they will put to GOOD use and BE the 'foot soldiers' we need to advance our cause!!! 

 

I totally agree. That's why I ALWAYS ask...."what YOU doin?"

 

But NOAH?????    Same (youthful ignorance) delusions ... just a different damn year decade.    Hell ... he's still throwing " Black people voted for President Obama  " tantrums ... 3 years after the fact!!  And actually STARTED having that hissy fit 2 years before the election even happened!!!

 

Yep!  I remember.  And I think I heard him say [I'm not sure] he doesn't even VOTE! I think I heard him say that a while back.  So that should have told me then what I was working with.

 

He has not "evolved" the way most "young" people do into the middle-aged man that he is today!! 

 

No...he has not.  When you close your mind to different ideas/opinions/concepts from other thinking humans, you willingly block your own life to the vase possibilities of inner growth.  I didn't hear any  growth coming from him only insults merely cuz I was not convinced/pursuaded by his conjecture.  I admit I'm a hard nut to crack cuz I have my own mind/perspectives....but!  I will listen closely if you have something poignant to say....that would cause me to go....hummmm that's an interesting way to look at it.....but!  To insult my intelligence as a basis to prove a point in a debate is not a VALID or sound argument.  It appears he just likes to hear himself talk.     

 

So .... no .... he doesn't get any kind of "young'un" pass from me!!!  He's too old to be acting like he doesn't know any better.  The fact of the matter is that he just DOESN'T.  Know any better, that is!!   

 

I agree.  Like I indicated to him just cuz folks can scribble doesn’t mean they are making sense.  It just doesn't.  

 

But ..... he's family.    He's like one of them 'cousins' that come to the family reunions ... and nobody wants to be the one to open the door and let him in ... but he finds his way through the back gate anyway .... .

 

Great analogy and.....on point too.

 

My hope is that .... with the way he thinks ... he just doesn't become part of the problem ... and manages to stay out of the way of any real solutions.

 

Well...I truly believe he is suspended in a time warp of his own.  What period?  I have no clue.  But I’m done.  I'm not gonna keep spinning my wheels.  Too much energy.  I have much to do.  And hey I hear sis, I should have listened.   But ya know what they say?  Hard heads make a soft behind.  Ha!  And mine happens to be “puff puff” right about now.  Trust me.  Lesson learned....this will NEVER happen again.  Nope!

How much do I owe you two for your psycho babble session?


Look….I am not seeking friends or enemies, admiration or condemnation, to be praises or cursed, to be loved or hated, to be mature or immature, to create pleasure or pain, etc.  If I am true to myself, if I seek logic and truth, employ cause and effect analysis, integrate actions begetting reactions and use due diligence that is all that matters to me.


I mean…..this is what you are going to get from me and it will not be at all impacted by how anyone on here labels me. By the way ER….what…..how many posts do you have on this forum by now? Hell….if I had a dollar for every post you have made the last 10 years I could pay off the national debt…and fund social security and Medicare for the next two centuries.  I might be immature, to you, but I am smart enough to know that every moment doing one thing is a moment taken away from doing another and if I spent as much time posting on forums as you have then my personal growth would be severely retarded.

Nope, Noah .... No Charge to you!! 

 

Ms Koco and I were talking about you .... not to you!!    And neither one of us asked for nor really care about your input into our conversation!!!

 

But, to answer your question ... if you will notice, a large percentage of my posts are simply stories/articles that I read and then post here to share. It's just a 'cut-and-past' job ... that takes all of about 10 seconds to post.   Unlike you, I don't spend enormous amounts of time on every post, trying to re-compose a comment that is just going to say the exact same thing you've said in pretty much every post for the past 5 years!! 

 

No matter how you rewrite, rephrase and regurgitate, it .... EVERY post consist of the same two things with you .... President Obama is the scum of the Earth ... and Black people are ignorant, mindless drones. 

 

Perhaps you should learn to 'cut-and-paste" that ... instead of trying to think of a NEW analogy to surround it with every time!!!  With the time you'd save ... you could actually learn to read other things - like current events .... be knowledgeable about something other than an election that happened years ago .... and have opinions about something other than the failure of the President and Black people.

 

Of course ... I understand how unlikely that is!!    But, it's just a suggestion.  You can take it or leave it as you see fit! 

Well, all I know is that no matter what forum you go to in AA.org, your flag flying all over the damn place. All I can say is that you sure read a lot of damn articles. How about being creative and THINKING for a change. Your whole thought process consist of nothing more than the regurgitation of articles you have read. That is like intellectual welfare in that instead of posting what you think and what you have deduced from raw facts and data, and or history, you just post articles where other people did the thinking and writing. Then when you have to write a defense or support of some article you wrote of someone else’s thoughts, you get all bent out of shape and go stick your head in the sand when someone does not agree. However, you do a lot more than just post articles. Who are you fooling? It’s like you are trying to run for mayor up in this joint. Unless your career goal is to be a forum moderator, I still say your time is not well spent.


Yes, when I write it is born from THINKING. When you write it is born from plagiarizing the thoughts of others. How many times have you been on this forum acting as if presidents represent the only branch of government? How many times have you commented on how great things were when some Democrat was President, while ignoring that the congress had a republican majority? How many times did I correct you to the fact that congress is a co-equal branch of government and one cannot simply look at the party in the white house to credit or blame for the state of affairs in the nation? I think logically and you refuse to think but rather are driven feelings and bias. See I could not give a rat’s azz about the Democrats or Republicans. On the other hand, you are emotionally invested in supporting one and hating the other, which prevents you from thinking rationally.


Obviously I am not posting enough if you think that I think Obama is the scum of the earth. You cannot find ANY quote were I have even alluded that Obama is a scum. In regards to black people, yes, that is the group that I am disappointed with. No matter what you say, if black people vote for a President that they refuse to take issue with over the increasing racial socioeconomic gaps between blacks and whites over the save few years, then black people made a dumb azz choice for president. I am not talking about the choice made in the general election either, as that was really not a choice. Like some women used to say “I can be po all by myself….”. What is the value of a black president when there is a negative return on the investment because he cannot address black inequality without risking his job? When you are hungry you don’t need a symbol of a meal……YOU NEED A REAL DAMN MEAL!!!! Too many black folks traded substance in for symbolism….and you DAMN SKIPPY that I am going to keep pointing that out as Black America sinks deeper socioeconomically.

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