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On the one hand it's often said that it's the person inside that is most important, not what they look like. However, I suspect that while the character of the person is extremely important, physical attraction does play some role in a successful relationship. However, I could be wrong! Actually I admit I am not sure about my views on this issue at the moment.

Here's an example - if you met someone who was extremely compatible with you in terms of your values, emotions etc but you weren't crazy about them physically, should you overlook the fact you aren't particularly attracted to them, and have a go at a relationship anyway?
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Physical attraction is a requirement.
IMO, alot of the divorces happened because either the man or woman just "let themselves go" and became unattractive. So not only does physical attraction play an important role in establishing a relationship, but it also aids in maintaining it.
Yeah women gain weight when they have kids. But if she's with me, she'd better make a conscious effort to get back to how she was when I met her; at least until she's 40 or 50.
The physical attractiveness is probably the most important element at the start of relationships; without it, one would never get to know about the other qualities. However, the with time, physical attractiveness lessens in importance.

As my grandfather used to say, "Looks fade after three weeks, or the first big argument; whichever comes first."

I have to disagree that one or the other letting themselves go is a major cause of divorce. I'd hazard to guess that when this happens, there a many other issues going on.
quote:
Originally posted by CLARE:
If you met someone who was extremely compatible with you in terms of your values, emotions etc but you weren't crazy about them physically, should you overlook the fact you aren't particularly attracted to them, and have a go at a relationship anyway?


Just recently, I was confronted with having to make this decision. I'm dating heavily at the moment, and while on campus, I was approached by a guy who expressed an interest in me. He told me he had been interested in me for some time and could we go out. Well, he appeared to be handsome, though he was wearing a cap on his head and it was dark and raining outside. So I couldn't really see what he looked like. I toke his number down anyway and gave him a call two weeks later. We spoke on the phone and seemingly had many things in common. He was from Saint Croix, had a heavy island accent, was a vegetarian, forward thinking brotha, well informed, and has been in the United States for only six years studying to be a psychologist at the University. I really really enjoyed his conversation and we spoke on the phone for a week before making the decision to actually go on a date.

That weekend, it came time for us to go on "The Date." I told him that a date would be great because now I can get the opportunity to see what he looks like [in the daylight]. I meet him at his place (I never let a guy know where I live on first dates) and I see this guy with crust in his eyes, the craziest-looking parted cornrolls I've ever seen (some cornrolls going back, others on the sides, others flipping in the back), the raggediest-looking clothes, and ashy discolored lips. I was sooooo disappointed. I told him that I could not pursue anything further with him and that today would be the end of it and not to call me.

Call me shallow, but I don't regret having made this decision.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:

That weekend, it came time for us to go on "The Date." I told him that a date would be great because now I can get the opportunity to see what he looks like [in the daylight]. I meet him at his place (I never let a guy know where I live on first dates) and I see this guy with crust in his eyes, the craziest-looking parted cornrolls I've ever seen (some cornrolls going back, others on the sides, others flipping in the back), the raggediest-looking clothes, and ashy discolored lips. I was sooooo disappointed. I told him that I could not pursue anything further with him and that today would be the end of it and not to call me.

Call me shallow, but I don't regret having made this decision.


That's depressing - but the way you've described it, it sounds quite funny! I love the way you've described him:

"And I see this guy with crust in his eyes, the craziest-looking parted cornrolls I've ever seen (some cornrolls going back, others on the sides, others flipping in the back), the raggediest-looking clothes, and ashy discolored lips. I was sooooo disappointed."

I suppose you have to see the funny side of it! lol
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
That weekend, it came time for us to go on "The Date." I told him that a date would be great because now I can get the opportunity to see what he looks like [in the daylight]. I meet him at his place (I never let a guy know where I live on first dates) and I see this guy with crust in his eyes, the craziest-looking parted cornrolls I've ever seen (some cornrolls going back, others on the sides, others flipping in the back), the raggediest-looking clothes, and ashy discolored lips. I was sooooo disappointed. I told him that I could not pursue anything further with him and that today would be the end of it and not to call me.

Call me shallow, but I don't regret having made this decision.


That's not shallow,...and that brotha wasn't merely "unattractive"...he didn't have good hygene...and that's a whole different ballgame.

Attractive IMO is good hygene. Dirt, crust, or ash on Denzel would be a turnoff. And I'm not even going near the hair you described.lol

On another note,

I've dated a guy who was "unatractive" to me when I first met him. He was clean and neat, smart, had similar interests....but he wasn't my usual physical "type"(he wasn't tall and his face wasn't all that)...but because of all his endearing qualities I ended up thinking he was really cute after a while.

On another note, I've dated drop dead fine men(IMO of course) who turned out to be really unattractive to me because they weren't the brightest, or they had other major personality flaws.

I don't think "physical attractiveness" decides a realationship for me, but it makes it easier for a man to get the digits... But stupid and fine gets you nowhere.

And as soon as a guy starts taking photos with an off white "pimp" hat that's leaning to the side... he has to go...
Many years ago, a frat brother and I went to visit my sister on a college road trip. Being the horny college sophomores, that we were, and just having crossed, we talked about all the Kentucky State women we were going to do while there. My sister had agreed to hook us up.

We arrived at my sister's house about noon, and true to her word, my sister had 4 women waiting for us. Three of them were knock-dead fine and one was flat out plain looking. I doubt if she were in a room with 10 people, she would get a second look by anyone.

Smiling, my sister introduced them as, "This is XX, she's a Delta. This is XX, she's an AKA. This is XX, she's a Kappa Kutie." Then she turned to the plain one and said (almost dismissively), "This is my girl, XX.

Well, we all sat around and talked until it was time to head out to a party. By this time, I had no interest in the party. All I wanted to do was keep talking to this woman that my sister just knew I wouldn't have any interest in.

She was quick-witted and funny as hell. She had vision and a plan. She was informed and not afraid to speak her mind.

We ended up dating for 3 years.

I learned a lesson that day.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Many years ago, a frat brother and I went to visit my sister on a college road trip. Being the horny college sophomores, that we were, and just having crossed, we talked about all the Kentucky State women we were going to do while there. My sister had agreed to hook us up.

We arrived at my sister's house about noon, and true to her word, my sister had 4 women waiting for us. Three of them were knock-dead fine and one was flat out plain looking. I doubt if she were in a room with 10 people, she would get a second look by anyone.

Smiling, my sister introduced them as, "This is XX, she's a Delta. This is XX, she's an AKA. This is XX, she's a Kappa Kutie." Then she turned to the plain one and said (almost dismissively), "This is my girl, XX.

Well, we all sat around and talked until it was time to head out to a party. By this time, I had no interest in the party. All I wanted to do was keep talking to this woman that my sister just knew I wouldn't have any interest in.

She was quick-witted and funny as hell. She had vision and a plan. She was informed and not afraid to speak her mind.

We ended up dating for 3 years.

I learned a lesson that day.


That's a very uplifting story.
thanks
Quote on the issue of physical attraction from top British Psychiatrist, Raj Persaud:

'One of the biggest determinants of your mental health is whether you choose the right marital partner. The evidence is that having an unhappy marriage will increase your chances of having depression not two- or three-fold, but 25-fold. Isn't that astonishing?

'And yet in the Western world, physical attraction and romance are seen as important, when it should be about compatibility. That's what we try to talk about with the children in Camberwell, but whether the message gets through is another matter.'

(Source: 'Let's bring suicide out of the shadows' in "The Observer", Sunday May 23, 2004)
quote:
Originally posted by CLARE:
'And yet in the Western world, physical attraction and romance are seen as important, when it should be about compatibility. That's what we try to talk about with the children in Camberwell, but whether the message gets through is another matter.'

(Source: 'Let's bring suicide out of the shadows' in "The Observer", Sunday May 23, 2004)

off But I found it to be an interesting comparrison...

Cleopatra seduced the Romans with her irresistible . . . mind

by Ben Hoyle

LONG before Shakespeare portrayed her as history's most exotic femme fatale, Cleopatra was revered throughout the Arab world "” for her brain.
Medieval Arab scholars never referred to the Egyptian queen's appearance, and they made no mention of the dangerous sensuality which supposedly corrupted Julius Caesar and Mark Antony. Instead they marvelled at her intellectual accomplishments: from alchemy and medicine to philosophy, mathematics and town planning, a new book has claimed.

Even Elizabeth Taylor, who famously played the title role in the 1963 epic Cleopatra, would have struggled to inject sex appeal into this queen. Arab writers depict Cleopatra's court as a place of intellectual seminars and scholarship rather than the more traditional vision of kohl-rimmed eyes and hedonistic intrigue.

"They admired her scientific knowledge and her administrative ability," the book's author Okasha el-Daly, who is based at the Petrie Museum of Egyptian Archaeology at University College London, said.

In Egyptology: The Missing Millennium he writes that "Arabic sources often refer to Cleopatra as ˜the virtuous scholar' and cite scientific books written by her as the definitive works in their field". She was also regarded as a great builder, he claims, responsible among other things for a canal to supply Alexandria with Nile water.

Cleopatra was born in 69BC, the last of the Greek Ptolemaic dynasty that ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great's invasion in 332BC. The few images of her that survive suggest that she was not a great beauty by modern standards. Despite this she succeeded in seducing Caesar and his former ally Mark Antony, who left his Roman wife Octavia for her.

European scholars finally learned to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics in 1822 with the help of the Rosetta Stone. But Dr el-Daly believes that a ninth-century Arabian alchemist, Ibn Wahshiyah, got there first, opening up original Egyptian sources to medieval Arab writers.

"There has always been a snobbery which suggested that medieval Arab scholars only cared about science and engineering," he said. "They wrote about everything they found interesting. I even found one medieval scholar who had written a book on sex."

Kate Spence, a lecturer in Egyptology at Cambridge University's Faculty of Oriental Studies, described Dr el-Daly's work as very important.

"Everybody has known that these Arab sources were around for ages." she said, "but most of us working in this field don't know enough Arabic to use them properly."


]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C2-1524850%2C00.html
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
I don't think "physical attractiveness" decides a realationship for me, but it makes it easier for a man to get the digits... But stupid and fine gets you nowhere.


One of things that has me frustrated, and I know some people are going to find these comments offensive, but I find that alot of men, particularly, young black men, are not investing enough into their appearance these days. It doesn't make any sense not to at least make yourself presentable for a date, to leave your home with fucked up parted braids, and chapped lips. I am sick of seeing black men walking around looking like they just escaped from a jail facility when they are free men. Then they wonder why no one takes them seriously and why everyone is afraid of them on the streets. I mean, is it too much to ask to care about yourselves, to care about your image? If I am a woman who cares alot about my appearance and making a positive impression is clearly important to me, what makes you think that I would want to be seen with you? Why did you even approach me? I actually asked the guy that very question. Of course, he had no answer. In my view, being a college student is no excuse. It does not take a whole lot of money to make yourself presentable. It doesn't. After a certain age, I expect for a man to eventually exchange his teenage "hiphop" clothing for adult attire [e.g., a suit, tie, ironed and pressed cotton shirts, and a trench coat]. The mantra "Image doesn't mean anything" is a lie. Image is everything. Image is what gets you noticed. Its what gets you opportunities and chances. When I was in grade school, I remember seeing a teacher who I very much admired. Her name was Ms. Perkins and I thought she was absolutely the most perfect woman that I have ever seen. Every single day Ms. Perkins dressed immacutely from head to toe and I had never seen her wear the same thing more than twice, which as a child, I thought was pretty amazing. She sported designer suits that were perfectly tailored to her form. And I always knew when it was her walking down the hall because she wore a potent but soft fragrance and very high stiletto heels that were rather loud. As a child, I remember saying to myself, I want to be just like her when I grow up.
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quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
LONG before Shakespeare portrayed her as history's most exotic femme fatale, Cleopatra was revered throughout the Arab world "” for her brain. They marvelled at her intellectual accomplishments: from alchemy and medicine to philosophy, mathematics and town planning, a new book has claimed.


What a great piece of history. Right? And isn't it unfortunate and sad that the many, many contributions women have made toward civilizing man are not discussed, that even today, the only thing a woman is given attention and praise for is her ability to visually satisfy men and/or rear their children. What's the deal with people in this culture who cannot fathom the idea of women being both beautiful and smart???
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Well, we all sat around and talked until it was time to head out to a party. By this time, I had no interest in the party. All I wanted to do was keep talking to this woman that my sister just knew I wouldn't have any interest in. We ended up dating for 3 years.


What a heart-warming story. I love anecdotal stories. I wish more people shared these kind reflective and intimate parts of their lives. I learn more from stories than text. Anyway, as touching and inspiring as your story was, I want it all brotha!!!! I want someone that I find mentally and physically attractive. And why should we compromise? Huh? Why does a woman have to settle for a homely looking man in order to get the responsible man? It doesn't seem right. I understand the importance of giving people a chance, but geez. Chapped lips??? C'mon now. Let's get it together.
quote:
Originally posted by CLARE:
On the one hand it's often said that it's the person inside that is most important, not what they look like. However, I suspect that while the character of the person is extremely important, physical attraction does play some role in a successful relationship. However, I could be wrong! Actually I admit I am not sure about my views on this issue at the moment.

Here's an example - if you met someone who was extremely compatible with you in terms of your values, emotions etc but you weren't crazy about them physically, should you overlook the fact you aren't particularly attracted to them, and have a go at a relationship anyway?


attraction first, then the other things come into play.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
I don't think "physical attractiveness" decides a realationship for me, but it makes it easier for a man to get the digits... But stupid and fine gets you nowhere.


One of things that has me frustrated, and I know some people are going to find these comments offensive, but I find that alot of men, particularly, young black men, are not investing enough into their appearance these days. It doesn't make any sense not to at least make yourself presentable for a date, to leave your home with fucked up parted braids, and chapped lips. I am sick of seeing black men walking around looking like they just escaped from a jail facility when they are free men. Then they wonder why no one takes them seriously and why everyone is afraid of them on the streets. I mean, is it too much to ask to care about yourselves, to care about your image? If I am a woman who cares alot about my appearance and making a positive impression is clearly important to me, what makes you think that I would want to be seen with you? Why did you even approach me? I actually asked the guy that very question. Of course, he had no answer. In my view, being a college student is no excuse. It does not take a whole lot of money to make yourself presentable. It doesn't. After a certain age, I expect for a man to eventually exchange his teenage "hiphop" clothing for adult attire [e.g., a suit, tie, ironed and pressed cotton shirts, and a trench coat]. The mantra "Image doesn't mean anything" is a lie. Image is everything. Image is what gets you noticed. Its what gets you opportunities and chances


Dear Rowe,
I do agree with you that image does mean something. However, what makes an image a thing of desire or disgust is one of a subjective matter. Personal experience has taught me that the nappy-headed, pants-sagging attire strikes love or lust if you will in the hearts or some while the nice clean cut neck tie with a pair of Dockers pant does it for others. And in terms of personalitiy choice, it, too, is subject to the bias of the beholder.
Yeah, after dating a number of "ghetto" sistas more because of a few initial droplets of kindness with a large portion of lust, it finally hit home rather fast that my nerdy, Dockers-pants-wearing behind was just not compatible with them. Not that I am better than them but I realize I am of a different mind set and changing that was not going happen anytime soon.

So, at this point,I put personality and intellect first before beauty....admittedly though.....boy, it is hard!
I just got back to this thread. But there is nothing wrong with wanting it all, as Rowe says. Nothing except that someone having it all is extremely rare.

Choosing someone for their wit and intellect, or because they "just fit", is not settling, even if they do not fall within your current definition of attractive.

(Oh, yeah...your definition will change with age and/or maturity. What I found attractive when I was in my 20's is completely different from what I find attractive now that I'm in my 40's)

But I feel ya Rowe, we all want it all.
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
I just read the whole thread and noticed that Oshun is clowning my hat.

I got a question Oshun, tell me what threads I need to be wearing to catch your eye?
I was just messing with you. The day I wrote that I was in a playful mood and wanted to poke fun at you for a reaction. I'm back to my usual serious self now.

But honestly, I like guys in no name clothes at the least. When a guy has too many high priced labels on I run. Materialism is a big turn off. It's all about personal style, and I'm a sucker for a cute face too. I like men who keep it simple and relaxed.

But traditional Nigerian clothes(in particular a flowing Agbada, Buba, sokoto, and fila) on a tall brotha turns my head with a quickness!



Yeah baby! That's some hot stuff!!!

P.S. Vox...that was a good one!
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
I just read the whole thread and noticed that Oshun is clowning my hat.

I got a question Oshun, tell me what threads I need to be wearing to catch your eye?
I was just messing with you. The day I wrote that I was in a playful mood and wanted to poke fun at you for a reaction. I'm back to my usual serious self now.

But honestly, I like guys in no name clothes at the least. When a guy has too many high priced labels on I run. Materialism is a big turn off. It's all about personal style, and I'm a sucker for a cute face too. I like men who keep it simple and relaxed.

But traditional Nigerian clothes(in particular a flowing Agbada, Buba, sokoto, and fila) on a tall brotha turns my head with a quickness!



Yeah baby! That's some hot stuff!!!

P.S. Vox...that was a good one!


I got that for you OA.
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
I got that for you OA.


I figured as much. I know you look fly in it too. Once again, your wife is a lucky women. I also like Babariga and Aso Oke Gbarie outfits.

Men look so fly when wear traditional clothes. It's a rare sight with the younger guys... Unfortunately...

This is way off topic and I don't know if you will be able to assist but my grandmother recently made the transition to the ancestral realm and she left me a Haitian necklace. It has blueish green round beads with brownish black beads that are about 1/2" long and hang like teeth...(They may have been dark blue and pure black at one time, they are wooden and the original colour has faded a little) It is quite long and seems to be quite old also. I know the Haitian voudun comes primarily from the Dahomey region but I know it has many Yoruba influences also. Does that sound like anything to you? I'm curious because as far as I know she never went to Haiti(nor has anyoine else in the family that I am aware of) but I know my ancestors passed through there on their way here. It may just be some commercial handicrafts sold to tourists but I figured I'd give it a shot by asking you. She kept it with her valuable jewelry so I have an inkling it may mean something... She also left me some Nigerian dresses she used to wear. My grandmother and I shared a not so strange affinity for African clothing... But I didn't even know about the necklace until after she passed when it was given to me. Any thoughts?

I know she gave it to me because she knew I would like it and she loved me, but I can't help but wonder if there is a deeper message. Not that there needs to be... or that there really is anything deeper than her love for me and mine for her.
quote:
Originally posted by CLARE:
On the one hand it's often said that it's the person inside that is most important, not what they look like. However, I suspect that while the character of the person is extremely important, physical attraction does play some role in a successful relationship. However, I could be wrong! Actually I admit I am not sure about my views on this issue at the moment.

Here's an example - if you met someone who was extremely compatible with you in terms of your values, emotions etc but you weren't crazy about them physically, should you overlook the fact you aren't particularly attracted to them, and have a go at a relationship anyway?


Hmmmm....Normally I would say that physical attraction is important first. But, I've lived and learned too much to believe that now. I think whatever the person values most that matches the person that he/she desires to settle down with will be the determining factor. There are people who have relationships that, if you're looking on the outside you wouldn't be able to figure out how they ended up with one another. All sorts of things come into play. Humor, wisdom, maturity and goals can become a higher attractive feature to a person that values them over a svelte figure and/or a pretty face. I don't believe most people really consciously see this in themselves. Remember, people typically spend a lot of time with each other when they are seriously dating. By the time the next step becomes matrimony sometimes one can look back and "truly" not know how they ended up with the person but are happy none the less. This also happens when we mature and our values change. Of course many times people age but do not mature. Ah, well. *sigh*.

Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
quote:
Ose, Ose, Ose, Mo be yin ki e fun mi ni agbara ki nsegun awon ota mi loni ati ni gbogbo ojo aye mi.


Please translate. Thanks.


Ok I will try....not sure what OSE means...but the rest is as follows.....starting with with "Mo.......".......I pray that you (God) give me strength to defeat my enemies today and for the rest of my life" hope it helps
quote:
Originally posted by folobatuyi:
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
quote:
Ose, Ose, Ose, Mo be yin ki e fun mi ni agbara ki nsegun awon ota mi loni ati ni gbogbo ojo aye mi.


Please translate. Thanks.


Ok I will try....not sure what OSE means...but the rest is as follows.....starting with with "Mo.......".......I pray that you (God) give me strength to defeat my enemies today and for the rest of my life" hope it helps


Ose means literally "You have done it" but actually means "Thank you."

...it can also mean "soap" in another context.

As in Ose(soap) DuDu(black)/(Soap Black)...which I highly recommend BTW.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
I got that for you OA.


I figured as much. I know you look fly in it too. Once again, your wife is a lucky women. I also like Babariga and Aso Oke Gbarie outfits.

Men look so fly when wear traditional clothes. It's a rare sight with the younger guys... Unfortunately...

This is way off topic and I don't know if you will be able to assist but my grandmother recently made the transition to the ancestral realm and she left me a Haitian necklace. It has blueish green round beads with brownish black beads that are about 1/2" long and hang like teeth...(They may have been dark blue and pure black at one time, they are wooden and the original colour has faded a little) It is quite long and seems to be quite old also. I know the Haitian voudun comes primarily from the Dahomey region but I know it has many Yoruba influences also. Does that sound like anything to you? I'm curious because as far as I know she never went to Haiti(nor has anyoine else in the family that I am aware of) but I know my ancestors passed through there on their way here. It may just be some commercial handicrafts sold to tourists but I figured I'd give it a shot by asking you. She kept it with her valuable jewelry so I have an inkling it may mean something... She also left me some Nigerian dresses she used to wear. My grandmother and I shared a not so strange affinity for African clothing... But I didn't even know about the necklace until after she passed when it was given to me. Any thoughts?

I know she gave it to me because she knew I would like it and she loved me, but I can't help but wonder if there is a deeper message. Not that there needs to be... or that there really is anything deeper than her love for me and mine for her.


Those colors don't respond directly to any specific divinity that I know of. I'll check with Grandpa and holla back.That mix of colors is deep. Anything Grandma wore that you have carries her Ase as you know. The way she gave it to you is a sign also. I'll write you off list when I get the info from the big guy.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
quote:
Ose, Ose, Ose, Mo be yin ki e fun mi ni agbara ki nsegun awon ota mi loni ati ni gbogbo ojo aye mi.


Please translate. Thanks.


The Conqueror, The Comqueror, The Conqueror
I beseech you, give me strength that I may conquer all of my enemies today.

The rest is quoted by those above.
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
Those colors don't respond directly to any specific divinity that I know of. I'll check with Grandpa and holla back.That mix of colors is deep. Anything Grandma wore that you have carries her Ase as you know. The way she gave it to you is a sign also. I'll write you off list when I get the info from the big guy.


Thanks!
Ok I will try....not sure what OSE means...but the rest is as follows.....starting with with "Mo.......".......I pray that you (God) give me strength to defeat my enemies today and for the rest of my life" hope it helps[/QUOTE]

Ose means literally "You have done it" but actually means "Thank you."

...it can also mean "soap" in another context.

As in Ose(soap) DuDu(black)/(Soap Black)...which I highly recommend BTW.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Oshun,
I knew what Ose meant but I was not sure how it was used in the above phrase. But thanks

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