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I believe we as humans by nature feel a need to advance ourselves; we like learning, discovering, and making things that make our lives more comfortable and luxurious here on Earth. We like being taught by those who came before us, adding to what we've learned, and then passing our knowledge to future generations who will then add to what we've taught them.

But what about those who believe they will go to Heaven upon death; where everything is perfect, no advancing, no discovering, no ancestors to gain wisdom and knowledge from, no children to raise teach and pass our knowledge to, just spending eternity sitting around God telling him how good he is, how long before that gets old? Could they truly be happy under those conditions?

It seems to me when they get to heaven they would have to have the mentality of a pet or a slave in order to be happy in Heaven for eternity; what do you think?

Kevin
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quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:

But what about those who believe they will go to Heaven upon death; where everything is perfect, no advancing, no discovering, no ancestors to gain wisdom and knowledge from, no children to raise teach and pass our knowledge to, just spending eternity sitting around God telling him how good he is, how long before that gets old? Could they truly be happy under those conditions?

Kevin


Is that really what's supposed to go on in Heaven?? Confused

I mean ... who thinks that?? Is that an 'across-the-board' Christian thing? Or, is that broken up by demoninations or something? Confused

Or is it more of a personal opinion about what one (any given individual) might think is how it's supposed to happen up there?

I can't really give you an answer because (obviously) I'm not 'one of those' people to whom you are asking the question, but ...

I would think that that kind of existence would give a whole new meaning to the word B-O-R-I-N-G!!!! Eek ... and make it hard for me to understand why so many people would be besides themselves with anxiousness to get there! 19
quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
I believe we as humans by nature feel a need to advance ourselves; we like learning, discovering, and making things that make our lives more comfortable and luxurious here on Earth. We like being taught by those who came before us, adding to what we've learned, and then passing our knowledge to future generations who will then add to what we've taught them.

But what about those who believe they will go to Heaven upon death; where everything is perfect, no advancing, no discovering, no ancestors to gain wisdom and knowledge from, no children to raise teach and pass our knowledge to, just spending eternity sitting around God telling him how good he is, how long before that gets old? Could they truly be happy under those conditions?

It seems to me when they get to heaven they would have to have the mentality of a pet or a slave in order to be happy in Heaven for eternity; what do you think?

Kevin



From what I've gathered, we will just be naturally happy, we won't have that feeling of needing to advance or discover, or teach, and we won't be bored. I mean, it's Heaven. Roll Eyes There is supposed to be enough goodness up there to keep us occupied and satisfied. Perpetual contentment.
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:

But what about those who believe they will go to Heaven upon death; where everything is perfect, no advancing, no discovering, no ancestors to gain wisdom and knowledge from, no children to raise teach and pass our knowledge to, just spending eternity sitting around God telling him how good he is, how long before that gets old? Could they truly be happy under those conditions?

Kevin


Is that really what's supposed to go on in Heaven?? Confused

I mean ... who thinks that?? Is that an 'across-the-board' Christian thing? Or, is that broken up by demoninations or something? Confused

Or is it more of a personal opinion about what one (any given individual) might think is how it's supposed to happen up there?

I can't really give you an answer because (obviously) I'm not 'one of those' people to whom you are asking the question, but ...

I would think that that kind of existence would give a whole new meaning to the word B-O-R-I-N-G!!!! Eek ... and make it hard for me to understand why so many people would be besides themselves with anxiousness to get there! 19

Like most things, there is no Christian consensus as to what the "after-life" will be like. The description given by above is not in the least consistent with what I believe.

If I were to describe it, it would be very much like the world we currently inhabit. The difference would be that there would be no sin, evil, death, or suffering. But people would still learn, grow, develop, etc. It would be a context in which our full potentiality could be explored because one would have all the resources and time to pursue them.
Okay, I really don't know a whole lot about how Heaven works, but it's hard for me to wrap my brain around an afterlife of eternity. It must be pretty crowded up there, besides. If everyone is forgiven of their sins then doesn't that mean folks'll be up there with people they can't stand? If there's racism up there, then that's just gonna suck. If there's a God I hope he doesn't tolerate that shyte.

I typically think that death must be like how it was before life. Until someone reports back to me, that's all I got to go on.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Neverending joy and contentment? ... Sounds like multiple orgasms gone haywire ... You know what they say about viagra ... If you experience an erection lasting longer than 4 hours ....


ooh, no you didn't!! Eek laugh


quote:
Originally posted by kresge:
If I were to describe it, it would be very much like the world we currently inhabit. The difference would be that there would be no sin, evil, death, or suffering. But people would still learn, grow, develop, etc. It would be a context in which our full potentiality could be explored because one would have all the resources and time to pursue them.

Okay, well, I suppose I don't really think of Heaven as a 'stopping place'. In fact, I don't really consider it a 'place' at all.

I believe that there are different and varying "worlds" of God, so to speak, in which the soul travels though (i.e., the 'world' of the womb, which in and of itself is a different kind of 'life' existence and is more or less preparing us for our existence in this 'world' - time and place). Just as we don't remember what went on in the Womb World (but do know that we lived through the experience of it), when we finish here, we probably won't have much cognizance of what happens in the next place - which is called Heaven .. but who really knows?? Confused

I do believe that the soul is enduring and probably everlasting ... and, it is what will trangress through the next phases of existance ... on and on and on ... and maybe even coming back here if you didn't get it right the first time!

But, I never thought of Heaven as an eternal hangout! However ... if He's got a big-screen TV and my soaps run 24/7 and the Raiders never lose ... I guess I could get kinda comfortable there if I had to! Big Grin lol
One of my favorite radio shows (Philosophy Talk) has an upcoming episode on death. (See below.) I don't know if Heaven will be mentioned, but I'm interested in listening to it because it just seems to me that if Heaven is supposed to be so...heavenly, why are some people afraid to die? You'd think some of them would be dying to get there. *Buh-dump-bump*

October 12: Overcoming the Terror of Death

To many death is terrifying. But why? As David Hume pointed out, all the years we didn't exist before we were born seemed painless enough. Why worry about future non-existence? Is the real worry that we will continue to exist? Ken and John confront mortality with psychiatrist and novelist Irv Yalom, author of Staring at the Sun: Overcoming the Terror of Death. This program was recorded before a live audience at The Marsh theater in San Francisco.
You all don't know what you're talking about. In heaven, there's tilapia everywhere! Grilled cajun, baked, fried, all kinds of tilapia dishes, everywhere, and only the freshest. With fresh cut leaf spinach and red potatoes! cabbage And pomegranate juice is real cheap!

And every radio station plays music from MY iPod! dance

Clearly, the rest of y'all must be talkin'bout someplace else. spank

Razz
quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
I believe we as humans by nature feel a need to advance ourselves; we like learning, discovering, and making things that make our lives more comfortable and luxurious here on Earth. We like being taught by those who came before us, adding to what we've learned, and then passing our knowledge to future generations who will then add to what we've taught them.

But what about those who believe they will go to Heaven upon death; where everything is perfect, no advancing, no discovering, no ancestors to gain wisdom and knowledge from, no children to raise teach and pass our knowledge to, just spending eternity sitting around God telling him how good he is, how long before that gets old? Could they truly be happy under those conditions?

It seems to me when they get to heaven they would have to have the mentality of a pet or a slave in order to be happy in Heaven for eternity; what do you think?

Kevin

----------
It all depends upon what 'heaven' means to a person. In my research, heaven means 'new land' such as in the words 'Nineveh' [in reverse; Heven-ninth; Ninth heaven or, eternal land] and, 'Jerusalem' [new land of peace]. In this sense, I think heaven offers me something much better than this existence.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
What if this is really hell, and we will just keep being reborn to suffer in this reality as our eternal punishment?


When I was a kid, I would wonder if maybe there was just a devil but no God .. and whether the devil made up all the stuff in the Bible as a big joke. You live your life doing all that stuff so you can go to heaven ... but it's all a big joke .. there is no heaven or God .. only hell. Not only do you go to hell in the end but the devil gets a big laugh because he fooled you big time. 9


quote:

I don't believe this... At least I hope it isn't true(although I recognize it as possible, like any other interpretation of reality). I had a friend in college who asked me this... He inhaled frequently... lol



I was perfectly sober ... and I still have my doubts. Razz
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
What if this is really hell, and we will just keep being reborn to suffer in this reality as our eternal punishment?


When I was a kid, I would wonder if maybe there was just a devil but no God .. and whether the devil made up all the stuff in the Bible as a big joke.


It's too easy... It's hard to resist...but I won't go there... Razz

quote:
You live your life doing all that stuff so you can go to heaven ... but it's all a big joke .. there is no heaven or God .. only hell. Not only do you go to hell in the end but the devil gets a big laugh because he fooled you big time. 9


I always thought that 'God' was a jerk. At least the simplistic stuff they taught me as a child in X-ian school... That there is some big scary guy in the sky writing down all the little ish everyone does, who is all powerful and knows everything that is going to happen, but has us going through this ish, and doesn't come and stop the misery and make everything peaceful... Even though people pray and beg and worship him all the time... and he could if he wanted too... Well, I thought he was a big jerk, evil, and cruel.

The entire 'supernatural being playing what amounts to a board game with our lives for entertainment' concept pissed me off.

quote:
quote:

I don't believe this... At least I hope it isn't true(although I recognize it as possible, like any other interpretation of reality). I had a friend in college who asked me this... He inhaled frequently... lol



I was perfectly sober ... and I still have my doubts. Razz


Lol... Well, I inhaled tongue and there was a certain pessimistic logic behind it that resonated with me.
quote:
Originally posted by Santana St. Cloud:
quote:
That there is some big scary guy in the sky writing down all the little ish everyone does....


He knows when you are sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows when you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake


Big differences from Santa Claus and God...

God is a spiritual genderless being

Santa Claus a White man who climbs into your house.

In regards to Heaven, if it's an eternity of bliss and rest, then all that you know in the human world cease to exist. Much better than being here on this planet, but rather go out in death by dying naturally when that happens for myself. I would probably get sick and tired of living a physical life if it consist of paying bills and once you "did it all" what more is there to do? A well deserved rest is needed.

Mentality of spiritual beings? God being a puppeteer? What church or who did you learn about God from? LOL

Rest is rest, peace is peace...bliss.

For any one to get to Heaven that is through a belief in God (which ever that may be) and this must show through your actions as well. If you chose to do these things by accepting God, you chose to do it not because of the fact of going to Heaven, hopefully for the spiritual connection with God, because you want it, not forced.
sistasouljia said:

(quote)
"From what I've gathered, we will just be naturally happy, we won't have that feeling of needing to advance or discover, or teach, and we won't be bored."

(reply)
So they won't have the mentality they have now? Do you think they will have the mentality of a pet or a slave in order to be happy under those conditions?

Willywill says:

(quote)
"I would probably get sick and tired of living a physical life if it consist of paying bills and once you "did it all" what more is there to do? A well deserved rest is needed....Rest is rest, peace is peace"

(reply)
I can be cool with peace, but don't cha think after the first couple of thousand years of constant rest that you might wanna do something? Something that challenges you; maybe something that gives you a sence of accomplishment? Or do you think you would be given a mentality that would allow you to be content resting for eternity in total bliss....

Kevin
Willywill says:

(quote)
"I would probably get sick and tired of living a physical life if it consist of paying bills and once you "did it all" what more is there to do? A well deserved rest is needed....Rest is rest, peace is peace"

(reply)
I can be cool with peace, but don't cha think after the first couple of thousand years of constant rest that you might wanna do something? Something that challenges you; maybe something that gives you a sence of accomplishment? Or do you think you would be given a mentality that would allow you to be content resting for eternity in total bliss....

Kevin[/QUOTE]

Spiritual rest is apparently different from just sleep so your body can regenerate itself for the next day. You're dead, you just dead. What more work or challenges are there to accomplish? Just chillin...that's why it's eternal bliss or damnation. lol
quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
sistasouljia said:

(quote)
"From what I've gathered, we will just be naturally happy, we won't have that feeling of needing to advance or discover, or teach, and we won't be bored."

(reply)
So they won't have the mentality they have now? Do you think they will have the mentality of a pet or a slave in order to be happy under those conditions?

Willywill says:

(quote)
"I would probably get sick and tired of living a physical life if it consist of paying bills and once you "did it all" what more is there to do? A well deserved rest is needed....Rest is rest, peace is peace"

(reply)
I can be cool with peace, but don't cha think after the first couple of thousand years of constant rest that you might wanna do something? Something that challenges you; maybe something that gives you a sence of accomplishment? Or do you think you would be given a mentality that would allow you to be content resting for eternity in total bliss....

Kevin


It doesn't seem like a complicated thing if you go by the classic descriptions of what heaven should be like. I don't think having the mentality of a pet or slave, or losing the dignity of being a free thinking human is necessary to be content up there. However it's supposed to work, we are all supposed to feel good, be without sickness and negative thoughts (which would include boredom), and be very happy. And being that it IS heaven, if, for whatever reason, some of us still had a quest for knowledge or a longing to pursue things of that nature, I'm sure God could acccomodate. I, for one, would like a library up there. A very large, expansive, beautiful library. But then again, maybe I won't need it. Maybe by the time we get up there, we're just automatically satisfied with what we are surrounded by.
quote:
Originally posted by Willywill3:
quote:
Originally posted by Santana St. Cloud:
quote:
That there is some big scary guy in the sky writing down all the little ish everyone does....


He knows when you are sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows when you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake


lol Exactly...

quote:
Big differences from Santa Claus and God...


Maybe between your and my definition of 'God', but I know many people where 'God' is basically the equivalent of Santa Claus for adults...

quote:
God is a spiritual genderless being


That's YOUR definition of 'God', not everyone shares that definition. Take myself for instance. I don't think the source/all of consciousness/energy is a 'being' or 'seperate' from us.

quote:
Santa Claus a White man who climbs into your house.


Uhhhmmm no Willy Will, Santa Claus DOESN'T EXIST!!! Why are you speaking as if he does? lol

quote:
Mentality of spiritual beings? God being a puppeteer? What church or who did you learn about God from? LOL


In my post I referred to 'the simplistic things I was taught as a child'. It occured in this X-ian dominated society and the 'Old testament' largely backs what you just stated up... giving God a particularly vindictive 'mentality'... I of course to not have a simplistic or X-ian spiritual worldview in my adult life... Not that they are one in the same.

quote:
For any one to get to Heaven that is through a belief in God (which ever that may be)


Pure conjecture and projection on your part.

quote:
If you chose to do these things by accepting God, you chose to do it not because of the fact of going to Heaven, hopefully for the spiritual connection with God, because you want it, not forced.


What made you bring up the fear mongering some use to religoussly motivate/dominate? Something on your mind?
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by Willywill3:
quote:
Originally posted by Santana St. Cloud:
quote:
That there is some big scary guy in the sky writing down all the little ish everyone does....


He knows when you are sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows when you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake


lol Exactly...

quote:
Big differences from Santa Claus and God...


Maybe between your and my definition of 'God', but I know many people where 'God' is basically the equivalent of Santa Claus for adults...

quote:
God is a spiritual genderless being


That's YOUR definition of 'God', not everyone shares that definition. Take myself for instance. I don't think the source/all of consciousness/energy is a 'being' or 'seperate' from us.

quote:
Santa Claus a White man who climbs into your house.


Uhhhmmm no Willy Will, Santa Claus DOESN'T EXIST!!! Why are you speaking as if he does? lol

quote:
Mentality of spiritual beings? God being a puppeteer? What church or who did you learn about God from? LOL


In my post I referred to 'the simplistic things I was taught as a child'. It occured in this X-ian dominated society and the 'Old testament' largely backs what you just stated up... giving God a particularly vindictive 'mentality'... I of course to not have a simplistic or X-ian spiritual worldview in my adult life... Not that they are one in the same.

quote:
For any one to get to Heaven that is through a belief in God (which ever that may be)


Pure conjecture and projection on your part.

quote:
If you chose to do these things by accepting God, you chose to do it not because of the fact of going to Heaven, hopefully for the spiritual connection with God, because you want it, not forced.


What made you bring up the fear mongering some use to religoussly motivate/dominate? Something on your mind?


What made me bring that up? Because most people, not all think you should fear God and do good things because you need to do them to get into Heaven. It should be a choice, not out of fear.


Santa Claus equal to God? I don't know where you would get that from, but who prays to Santa Claus? You're suppose to see Santa Physically now and God is not a magic genie either... LOL
quote:
Originally posted by Willywill3:
What made me bring that up? Because most people, not all think you should fear God and do good things because you need to do them to get into Heaven. It should be a choice, not out of fear.


Most people of certain trligious tradition(s) perhaps, but not most people per say. That was my point. I was attempting to get you out of the X-ian universalist projection you have been doing.

quote:
Santa Claus equal to God? I don't know where you would get that from, but who prays to Santa Claus? You're suppose to see Santa Physically now and God is not a magic genie either... LOL


Once again you missed my point. Some people's GOD CONCEPT is equivalent in nature(and no more advanced) to how they think about 'God'... Check my first post for further clarification if needed.
quote:
Originally posted by Ma'at:
Didn't you know that you get your own heaven and hell right here on earth?


It would be nice just to have it Heaven on Earth, oh but there are just some people who ruin that chance. You know also, what you do now (for those who believe in a God) in this life; being a very moral person (no one is perfect) and yep believing/knowing that there is a God (other words, feeling God's presences) can get you into Paradise. Of course the question comes up, "Why does God send people to Hell?" It's people who make that choice, people...even the so call "religious" nut jobs end up in Damnation...you can believe in God, but not follow God (by being moral) and be denied into paradise. Atheism, that is a choice isn't? Proof of a God? Depends if you think God is suppose to be physical, when God is a spiritual entity, like the force. lol
I don't see myself in heaven, I see myself as one of the righteous ones who inherit the earth. In heaven all they do......day in & day out is sing HOLY HOLY HOLY while praising Almighty G.d 24/7. On earth there's a different plan........an old man is as a young boy....all the wild animals live together peacefully & folk don't get sick or grow old, cuz the former things have passed away. I take that to mean I'll have a 30 something body for like 'FOREVER'......... I'll spend my days taking pictures of wild life.....embracing my brothers & sisters without fear of hidden agendas, back-stabbing, lying & cheating & plain ole evil.....I can express my true self without worry or concern. It'll be about rebuilding a better world..........at least, for about a 1000 years until satan the devil is released from his prison THEN all the hidden agendas, back-stabbing, lying, cheating, HATE, & evil starts all over again. LOL

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