I am going through a soul searching phase in my life and looking for some source of...redemption(?) I don't care what you have to say to this post, if anything at all, I simply feel the need to get this off my chest, and what better place then on the internet and to the intelligencia of my past enemy.

As an early teen I was frustrated and angry at the way things seemed to be. I would see fellow black students behaving in a very loud and arrogant manner, and I would think to myself, how can they be like this, when they have accomplished so little? I would see my fellow white students behaving sometimes in a bizarrely submissive manner, and I would think to myself, how can they be like this, when they have accomplished so much? I became more and more frustrated and enraged over matters such as these.

White brethren wanting to tan themselves, changing their skin because they thought themselves less attractice as white, this enfuriated me. I would see white males walking about, dressed like some black rapper they saw on TV, trying to emulate themselves into Black culture so desperately, I wanted to puke, cry, and bash their traitorous skull in all at the same time.

A neighbor of mine matched this very description, the ultimate Wigger. One day we were at the busstop, and embroiled in my own inner conflicts, I looked at him, and lashed out, knocking out two of his teeth and giving me a suspension and my parents a lawsuit, this was 7th grade, and I was devastated, I can't tell you how many hours I cried, I was such a pussy.

I was still angry though, and began surfing the internet for people like me, I found this fairly quickly, and not even agreeing with many of their views, I decided I wanted to be a neo Nazi, to belong and have some source of power, and stop being so god damn lonely with my views. I met with 2 guys who lived near me once, I didn't see a spark of intelligence, and already troubled over the fact that I didn't hate Jews, or the American Government, I decided not to go down that road again.

A teacher of mine spoke to my parents, and they decided I needed therapy, so I started talking to this guy, and he helped me turn my focus from race, to individuals. I learned how to control my anger. Slowly I began to calm, and starting on my own new clean slate, at a different school, I began making new friends, getting a social life, all with people who I did not judge upon their race.

I think I am fairly recovered now, and I feel that my last step is this, admitting what I was to the people I hate, and understanding that I can and will change. Thank you for your reading.
"A sense of purity and integrity is a greater reward than any wealth or pleasure gotten by illegitimate means."
Original Post
IGNORANCE of the TRUE AFRICAN STORY was/IS the source of your Hate for BLACK people. Your GOVERN-U-MEN keep you MIS-EDUCATE as well as Blacks of the TRUE-STORY of AFRICANS and CAUCASIANS. Our AFRICAN Ancestors "have not accomplished so little", they have GREATLY contributed to HIS-STORY! They weren't just a bunch of SAVAGES, Passive SLAVES but were in fact MIGTHY PRIESTS, SCHOLARS, RULERS, ASTUTE REBELS and WARRIORS . Do you know from WHO and WHERE the GREEKS and ROMANS learned KNOWLEDGE and CIVILIZATIONS? From AFRIKANS! Yes, ALL the aspects of advanced Culture begun by our ANCESTORS the Blacks of KEMET(EGYPT), NUBIA-KUSH (SUDAN) and INDIA! Do you know how many times AFRICANS defeated Europeans before they learned the Making of GUNPOWDER form the CHINESE and ARABS? When Your ANcestors the Europeans fought with sword and Lance against sword and lace their Victories agaisnt AFRICANS were very FEW! HANNIBAL for example, the AFRICAN from CARTHAGE defeated ROME's Legions and ruled ITALY for many years as well as the AFRICANS Nations like the ZULUS, MOSSI STATES, ASHANTI, DAHOMIENS, ETHIOPIANS, HERREROS and other defeated the Europeans in a great number of wars and Battle.

The Claim of WHITE RACIAL SUPERIORITY over BLACKS is based on LIE and on just recent development such as the PLANNED Colonialism and Oppression of our poeple wordwide. Had our ANCESTORS in AfRICA, AMERICA, South East ASIA, the ARAB NATIONS, the BLACK WASHITAW EMPIRE of the LOUISIANA TERRITORIES of the U.S (YES THERE WERE AFRICANS in NORTH AMERICA BEFORE SLAVERY, BEFORE CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS!). If We were FREE from Slavery, Oppression and Exploitation We would have been the MOST ADVANCED people today ECONOMICALLY, POLITICALLY and MILITARY!

The Rape of AFRICA by your CAUCASIAN ANCESTORS, the DESTRUCTION of our ANCIENT Cultures was/is the CAUSE of our "UNDERDEVELOPMENT". All your distorted Knowlege and Complex of SUPERIORITY is based on RACIST PROPAGANDA that has been spread since the Beginning of EuropeanS and ARABS enslavements of BLACKS and current PROPAGANDA used to show that we are BACKWARD worldwide , but the fact remain the GREAT SCIENTIFIC, TECHNOLOGICAL AND CULTURAL ADVANCEMENTS made by our AFRICAN ANCESTORS surpass by many times the LESSER contributions of your Caucasian ANcestors who would have not done much better had they been faced with the types of obstacles placed on US by the ARABS and your people.

MIS-EDUCATION, IGNORANCE bring FEAR and HATRED in you. You are the Perfect example of a sucessful BRAINWASHED Mind by the PROPAGANDA-NEWS MEDIA. Do yourself and everyone a BIG favor by SEARCHING and LEARNING AFRICAN TRUE-STORY. Learn also to DISCERN LIES Vs. TRUTH in what you see in TELL-I-VISION (TV) and all you hear in this Racist chauvinist white Male Supremacy CIVIL-LIES-A-SHUN (CIVILIZATION), only with ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE, Open-Mindness and COMPASSION you will be able to RESPECT and HONOR HUMANITY and the BLACK PEOPLE, the ORIGINAL MEN/WOMEN the Mothers and Fathers of ALL civilizations !

AfroMan.

[This message was edited by Afroman on May 31, 2003 at 03:43 AM.]
Goshtoire:

Here's a LINK to the an excerpt or article relating to the book suggested above:

http://www.nathanielturner.com/biglittlewhitelies.htm

I applaud your personal courage to deal with "those demons" within. If we all could be so courageous then WE ALL COULD ACHIEVE...

The story of history of all the people of the world is that WE ALL CAN!... and WE ALL HAVE!
... with no exceptions!...

You just have to dig deep enough and you will find that WE ALL HAVE contrary to what might be promoted in society at large.
Thanks everyone, Afroman, I would like you to remember that my fellow black students did not know all these things about their historical roots, they were arrogant for different reasons. And while part of the source of my hatred may have been ignorance, that was not the driving factor, it was more so seeking pride and unity.

I do know that African culture was rich and advanced, but they did not create the Roman culture, nor did they create the Greek, African traders may have influenced Greek culture, maybe even pass on some knowledge, but they did not parent it. Roman civilization was pretty much a copycat of Greek, not African. And when I meant accomplishments, I meant things like circumnavigating the globe, creating the printing press, opening the entire world to everyone else.

On your comment of Europeans having so few victories against African nations before gunpowder, I am pretty sure that this is not true. For centuries barbaric tribes, mostly germanic, succesfully raided and plundered African, Arab, and Asian tribes and nations. Hannibal was a brilliant commander, and his troops dedicated and well trained, but remember he was eventually defeated. And what of Alexander the Great? Whose campaign carried him through thousands of miles of your ancestoral territories.

Note that I do not have a college education like I am assuming that most if not all you have, I am just graduating from high school, and I do not have the historical resources that I am sure most of you are in touch with. If I am wrong, give me factual and reliable sources to study from, thank you.

Afroman, you might want to refrain from capitalizing so many words, it gives me the image of you vehemently screaming in my face. You also don't need to call me Caucasian; white, German, cracker, kraut, I don't care, whatever you feel most comfortable with, too much political correctness sickens me.

Thank you for understanding (sort of) and your input, I truly appreciate it.
quote:
they did not create the Roman culture, nor did they create the Greek, African traders may have influenced Greek culture, maybe even pass on some knowledge, but they did not parent it. Roman civilization was pretty much a copycat of Greek, not African. And when I meant accomplishments, I meant things like circumnavigating the globe, creating the printing press, opening the entire world to everyone else.


Sciences, Technologie, Writtings, RELIGION All these Knowledge originated form NUBIA-KUSH AFRICA. The GREEKS learned them and passed them down to the ROMANS and ARABS! Hippocrates (the so-called Father of Medecine), Homer (the First European Writer), Heroditus (the First European His-story-ian), Phytahgoras (the so-called Father of Mathematics), Socrates, Aristotle (the First so-called Philosophers) and other Greek Scholars ALL traveled and Studied in the temples of Babylonia and KEMET (Egypt)!
The EU-ROB-EAN Civilizations were not the SAME as the Africans as far as Duration, Splendor and Violence. Because realize that though for 15,000 yrs Africans had Advanced and Vibrant Civilizations (specially from 10,000-6,000B.C) 13,000 yrs before the Caucasians, it was NEVER in Africans Minds to Colonize and Oppress other people at a globlal scale like Whites. The Fact REMAIN Black Intellectuals LED TO the DEVELOPMENT of GREECE (300B.C), the Romans (800B.C) and the ARABS (639A.D).

quote:
On your comment of Europeans having so few victories against African nations before gunpowder, I am pretty sure that this is not true.


This is certainly true! How come Europeans had contact with Africans for so long, were gaining KNOWLEDGE from Africans as early as 300B.C with the example of Homer and Heroditus , but were only were capable of ENSLAVE, COLONIAZE, ROB and MURDER AFRICANS in 1400-1500A.D!? The reason is, they needed Time to Discover and LEARN more Technology, specially the GUNPOWDER and GUNS form the Chinese around 1400A.D. Which proves that Eu-ROB-eans coudln't Penetrate and Conquer AFRICA before the use of EVIL weaponry due to their physical weakness compare to Africans much more healthier and stronger when they were fighting them sword with lance against sword with lance. It is WEAPONS which Keep BlACKS oppress to this very day and in the past rather than any innate "SUPERIOTY" by Caucasians!

quote:
For centuries barbaric tribes, mostly germanic, succesfully raided and plundered African, Arab, and Asian tribes and nations.


Hell NO! Before the Roman Empire most of EUROPE was in barbarism and backwardness you recognize it yourself. The only settlements and cities built by the Romans were the ONLY AREAS of Advanced culture. Caucasians couldn't conquer and colonize NO other people. In the Ancient time the British, the French, the Spanish, Dutch, Scandinavians, Germanics, Russians, Kheltics, Poles before the Roman Empire were in barbarism and too backward to colonize anyone..Before the Roman time!!

quote:
Afroman, you might want to refrain from capitalizing so many words, it gives me the image of you vehemently screaming in my face.


I'm free to capitalize any word I want. The capitalization is to EMPHAZIZE my words, my thought. This is a FREE forum and I should be free to express myself as I please. We are not in Slavery times anymore and I should not receive any order from you or anybody as long as I'm not speaking NON-TRUTH or disrespecting anyone.

quote:
You also don't need to call me Caucasian; white....


Ain't you a white person? Ain't you of the Caucasian Race? This is not an Insult, it's a fact I'm myself of the NEGROID type, an AFRICAN, a BLACK man.

quote:
cracker, kraut...


I never called you a cracker or a kraut..You see that is the difference between NEO-NAZI and and CONSCIOUS AFRICANS. Conscious Africans have to much WISDOM, COMPASSION and RESPECT for HUMANITY to call Humans foul names. I'm not a heinous person and I will never call anyone with such names.

quote:
too much political correctness sickens me


I come on this board to exchange Ideas and Knowledge with BLACK/AFRICAN people. If I should use "political correctness" words/expressions to get their Approval and Attention so it shall be. I'm here to UNITE with Blacks not to please Caucasians or other people who wish to destroy AFRICAN UPLIFT and COMMUNITY. I'm not accusing you in particular of course.


Here are some Powerful and Well researched Work packed with references if you want to LEARN more on the GLORY OF THE BLACK RACE and HOW EUROPE UNDERDEVELOPED AFRICA and the African way of life as a Direct result of COLONIALISM:

Yosef Ben-Jochannan -Africa: Mother of Western Civilization (African-American Heritage Series)

Cheikh Anta Diop -The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality

Ivan Van Sertima -They Came Before Columbus.

Chancellor Williams -Destruction of Black Civilisation.

Walter Rodney -How Europe underdeveloped Africa

Also check http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/2003/race.html

Have a Good Reading and good LUCK to Enlightment!!

AfroMan.

[This message was edited by Afroman on May 31, 2003 at 08:11 PM.]
Well this is a first for me. I have worked with a few Neo Nazis in my life. I let them all know that if they lay a hand on me or get in my face too often I was going to take them out of their misery.

I never thought that I would respond to an Ex. You have taken the most important step of all. You have step into the light. I will say that you saw so many black people acting loud and aggressive. Why does the coyote,wolf,and dog howl. Why does an ape bellow and slap it's chest. Why does the skunk leave it's smell behind. Attention, letting the world know one exist. In the case of the Human being, compensating for an Inner weakness.

There is one thing that I have learned. White People don't have the monopoly on Racism. It comes from all races and ethnicities. I guess we can go back to the times of Primeval people. They possessed a thing called "Xenophobia" This comes from the greeks. It means fear of the outsider. All humans have this basic instict which is deeply ingrained in all of us. It is from this that some of us become Racist and keep our views narrow. I am not defending Racism and I doubt if I ever will. To deal with a person with a problem it helps to know where the problem is coming from. A little research goes a long way to avoid a misstep.

There has been too much ignorance/arrogance going on in this world. Here is something that I learned from this very nice police officer that I met. "Talk and treat a person how you would liked to be talked and treated to." The more I think about it and use it, the more it makes sense.

The world we live in is not perfect and I doubt if it ever will be. You have made the most important step in your life you seek knowledge. look at my signature below.

Knowledge is Power
Ignorance is Oppression
I'm not going to even argue with you Afroman, I'm not knowledgeable enough, I'm too tired, and too apathetic.

I think you need to stop being so extreme and start seeing things with clearer eyes. I can't even imagine seeing the world through your eyes, it must be terrible, a conspiracy against your entire people around every corner, on every TV channel, mirrored in the eyes of every white person. The only way you can possibly keep your sanity is by living in the past, in your people's glory days.

You truly hate whites, you can barely tolerate our presence. If you had the chance, you would not exterminate the white race, nor would you want to even make us better, you would want us to feel inferior, you would do to us what we did to you. You are no better then some pompous plantation owning fop in the American colonies, whipping his slaves. Thank you for your venom tipped help, I will leave you and your forum with this.
Why would I WANT whites to be as exploited and dominated as Blacks? Do not project the arrogant and egoistical Mind of most Caucasians on me. I brought you the TRUTH about AFRICAN TRUE-STORY. Is it so HARD to believe Africans were once GREAT PEOPLE, had Vibrant CIVILIZATIONS and contributed to the Advancement and development of EUROPEANS? Your Complex of Superiority is still ingraned in your mind. You do not want to LEARN, you do not Seek KNOWLEDGE. I gave you materials to study the TRUE AFRICAN STORY, to see what positive Role Caucasians have played in AFRICAN Story but also the DESTRUCTION of BLACK CIVILIZATIONS they caused because alas this is a Reality! This makes me a RACIST? I'm a Racist to speak TRUTH? What BENEFIT would I have to see the Enslavement, Oppression and Exploitation of other Humans (even animals)? Africans need the Knowledge and the Strength of ALL People. I truly believe and try to live by the Concept of our AFRICAN ANCESTORS in KEMET, the Concept of MAAT (TRUTH-JUSTICE and BALANCE). Because I believe what goes around comes around. If some people are oppressed there NEVER would be any PEACE nor BALANCE on Earth. Unsatisfaction, Rebellion, Violence will always be! Believe it from a Black Man living under Oppression is CRUSHING. It's not what I wish to any Children of YAHWEH the CREATOR. But you are Free to do whatever you want to remain in IGNORANCE and let HATRED form MIS-EDUCATION control you.

I'm not a Miserable Man NO GOD is in my life to apease me. But I'm very SAD to see the World the way it is, with so much EGOISM, INTOLERANCE, GREED, VIOLENCE and HATRED. So much Killing HUMAN LIFE is not Sacred anymore. But I do not HATE white people who the most control this Oppressive System. I pity them because the majority of them too are also brainwashed, utilized by their WICKED GOVERN-U-MEN.

You will never HEAL if you do not seek Knowledge, the Truth. You can do as you please to hang in here to LEARN or leave. One day Maybe ENLIGHTMENT will find you.

Peace!

AfroMan.
Smile WinkYes Afro man that was a good response. You must have been around the block a few times to come up with that conclusion. I used to work in a packinghouse here in Omaha. I can tell you one thing, a good part of the Caucasian people thought that a lot of us black people were just as we were on TV. Why because they allowed the media to brainwash them.

There wasn't a day that didn't go by that I wouldn't be offended because somebody was having a bad day and needed a frustration bag to punch. They would try this with me but I would give them silent treatment. I was for that reason I was labeled "Reverse Racist" and having a serious "Attitude Problem".

I had one thing in me that kept me on a level plane. I knew where I came from and I knew how me and People got to the US and what is keeping in the Status Quo.

All I can say Afroman. In the eyes of the Caucasian, when you talk like that, you become the Radical Black Man looking to rock the boat. Keep in mind that there are People of all walks of life that they would be happy shoveling poop and jacking off prize bulls as long as they had a few people under them to yell at and putdown.

Keep going the route your going Afroman.

As Salaam Alakum

Knowledge is Power
Ignorance is Oppression
quote:
You truly hate whites, you can barely tolerate our presence. If you had the chance, you would not exterminate the white race, nor would you want to even make us better, you would want us to feel inferior, you would do to us what we did to you. You are no better then some pompous plantation owning fop in the American colonies, whipping his slaves. Thank you for your venom tipped help, I will leave you and your forum with this.
My brothers and sisters.... Black or White...

This is the kind of underlining beliefs that stands in the way of Racial Reconciliation.

I've had I don't know how many conversations that have resulted in the same ole tired White sentiment:

"you would do to us what we did to you."

How sad...

... and this for someone who said:
"too much political correctness sickens me."

You would think that even the most extreme "Afrocentricism" wouldn't offend or alienate him. But... one of the unfortunate "blinding" side-effects of White racism, or more specifically the reluctance in our society [controlled by whites] to deal with race effectively, is the illness of Projective Mis-Perceptions.

When a White person hears "Pro-Black" or Afrocentric perspectives, be it in history or socio-political terms, they automatically equate that with "painting" things Black in order to yield the reverse of the present order; essentially, trying to place Blacks on top and Whites on the bottom. Nothing could be further from the truth.

If, in fact, history has been distorted then we do ourselves a disservice to continue to ascribe to the status quo and approach the truth seeking that history represents in a timid, compromising fashion. By doing that we give ground to regress and not progress.

The TRUTH is THE TRUTH no matter what color it is or was. While history is of utmost importance it has no power to change the
racial balance-of-power today except for declouding racial myths that may only be one of many factors that influence decision-making.

Whites repeatedly say that most things are not "racial issues"... why should history be one? Certainly historical figures had to be of some race or another, whether they defined themselves in the racial terms we use today or not. To try to downplay that is to try to be "politically correct" in a way to avoid dealing with the racial fallout for challenging what we have been told to be the truth - which is irresponsible.

My Ex Neo friend... if you're still there here's excerpts from a "White" author [book review] that corroborates some of AFROMAN's assertions with no apologies or concessions to anyone, Black or White:

BLACK SPARK, WHITE FIRE:
Did African Explorers Civilise Ancient Europe?


Book Overview and Interview by Minister Faust

NEXT TIME YOU FEEL like starting a blood feud, go to a Classics lecture on any American campus or to any American publishing house and say the following: "Egypt was a Black civilisation. And it conquered and civilised Greece."

As amply demonstrated by the growth industry in anti-Afrocentric publishing, North America's racially-poisoned debates about nearly everything have made the discussion of the racial identity of a people from six thousand years ago almost as vicious as the fight over Kosovo soil.

Why the controversy? Because of what Martin Bernal, author of Black Athena: The Afroasiatic Roots of Classical Civilisation, described as the contest between the Ancient Model vs. the Aryan Model of ancient Greece and Egypt. The ancient Greek made it clear that Egypt was their instructor and inspiration for nearly all the aspects of their civilisation; Europe believed this ancient testimony up until the age of imperialism. At that point it became morally and intellectually unfeasible to consider that those who were becoming the victims of the Slave Holocaust and the growing White world supremacy could be the grandfathers of European civilisation itself. And the racism necessary to justify that conquest was never defeated--even after the Nazis who were inspired by the same historical revisionism--were.
* * * * *
Enter Richard Poe, author of the controversial Black Spark, White Fire: Did African Explorers Civilise Ancient Europe?, a book whose trials of publication are almost as stunning as its revelations about the ancient world. Racial revisionism aside, why should anybody care about Ancient Egypt to begin with, given the glories and crises of modernity?

"For those of us who love history, we don't even need to ask the question,"says Poe...

But on the racial issues, Poe is clear that the Whitened history of the last three hundred years needs to be overturned... "There are many lessons to be learned from the past, about the races of mankind and the relationships they've had with each other over time and which have changed very drastically. We live in a time when if you look at a snapshot of the world over the last four or five hundred years, the European race has been preeminent in the world, and has dominated everybody else economically and militarily.

"But if you go back earlier in time, you see that that's not the way it's always been. Black Spark, White Fire goes back to a time when Africa was the preeminent power on land and sea, and in particular, the nation of Egypt. If you go through a conventional education today, I guess you learn about Egypt, but somehow the message isn't really drummed in that these were an African people and that they lived so many thousands of years before the Golden Age of Greece" and its highly developed civilisation.
* * * * * *
So, Poe must be an angry Black writer with an Afrocentric spear to sharpen, right? The kind who wants nothing more than to smear and destroy the European canon?

Hardly. Poe is an award-winning American journalist, part Russian Jew, part Mexican, and best-selling author. "I'm definitely not one of these types who abound in academic settings -- White liberals afflicted with 'White guilt' -- and feel they have to atone for the sins of their ancestors by beating up on Europe and themselves," clarifies Poe. "I'm not inclined to be that sort of person by nature, and I don't believe people who behave like that anyway."

"I don't think they're sincere. A person who doesn't respect himself and his own heritage can't really respect anyone else's. My advice to everyone out there is, look out for those White liberals."

...Some academics didn't want to touch the issue--as Poe makes clear, established academics are sometimes professionally and personally vicious enough to young mavericks to destroy their careers; perhaps only a journalist, argues Poe, has the freedom to write such a book.

Neither White liberal nor Black radical, Poe is also unlike many Afrocentric Egyptologists in that he doesn't regard the Greeks as mere historical plagiarists of greater, more ancient Egyptian genius. He is concerned neither with racial solidarity nor a political-academic
agenda--his sole concern seems to be the truth, hence his sacrifices.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"No person is your friend who demands your silence, or denies your right to grow." - Alice Walker

[This message was edited by Nmaginate on June 01, 2003 at 07:49 AM.]
Well,all I can say is that the Ex who came here didn't spit hate venon and offer to pile us up on bonfires. If you would have been to www.bet.com message boards, you would have seen a lot of this. If this Ex Neo Nazi wants to come here debate the issue and run away because he encounters a Black man who speaks his mind(Afroman) and tells him where to get off,then, that is where the problem lies.

I have no problem with the White Supremacist coming here. The problem I have is when they come here spitting venom and trying to put holes in our heads and fill them with their take on things. That may have worked post 1960's,but not now.

If you can't get past your narrow world of the US being a strictly Caucasian nation, then the race issue will never get better.

I might add,that thing about us Black people wanting to overtake the US. Give me a break. I'm sure this is because this is exactly what the Caucasian did to the First People(Native Americans,Indians,Redskins)and what was done to them makes you all paranoid that someone is going to do it to you. Whatever.

I can tell you that most of us Black people are too busy worrying about staying afloat. We are also too busy trying to stay in one piece.

How many times have I heard Non-Blacks coming to me with useless stereotypes based on brainwashing and media hype. Then people wonder why we get attitudes and become angry.

Knowledge is Power
Ignorance is Oppression
quote:
I can tell you that most of us Black people are too busy worrying about staying afloat. We are also too busy trying to stay in one piece.

How many times have I heard Non-Blacks coming to me with useless stereotypes based on brainwashing and media hype. Then people wonder why we get attitudes and become angry.
BILAL...

I feel you on that...
I'm one that goes head-to-head with the whole spectrum of venom-n-vanity White people on BET.com. It's like a group of them that try to promote/provoke people to go to their venomological websites... and those that might actually think they are not racist.

I've had some heated debates on Reparations where I've proposed a compromise of sorts and said since White people have a problem with "us" "wrongfully" "taking" their tax monies in Reparations that we would just resign to have Black Control of Black Taxes.....

Boy!!!!!!! They shoot through the roof!!!

"You can't do that... Education is... I don't control every way... So should everybody... That's ridiculous..."

And that's from the "good" Whites...

I mean... I thought I heard them say that we should pull ourselves up by our OWN bootstraps.

At the risk of shamelessly pushing my stance...

What else could be a more effective way to do that and, if it extended to "everybody", what better way to have a real democracy where everybody could take care of their own "household" then come together, assuming we're all adults, and tackle the big issues as relatively equal partners?

Funny... It took me months before I got one of them to understand and agree with that...
Few deep breaths Johnny, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, whoooo.

Now then, I just couldn't resist coming back to see what you all had said. For some bizarre reason I percieved Afroman as attacking me, so in my mind, I began twisting what he said into insults towards me and my ancestors. After a good nights sleep, I reread what he said and realized otherwise, my apologies. Though a few things struck me, for example, Afroman seemed to think that I still thought the way I used to, that I still believed that African civilization had done nothing, perhaps it was my fault for not clarifying in the beginning. I of course offended, asked Afroman if he would like to call me cracker or kraut instead of Caucasian since he SEEMED to be be so angry at me, which I construed as racial hatred. He thought that I was accusing him of using those words so he became offended, calling me physically inferior and a EUR-ROB-EAN (Nice touch). I got really pissed off, so rather then take that crap, I walked away from all this percieved negativity (It was actually coming from me, I just projected it onto Afroman)(And I did not run away I walked away without lowering myself Bilal!)

Forgive me for my confused perceptions, this would have never happened had we been face to face, eye to eye and I could properly assess any underlying emotions.

I thank you all for your positive feedback and relative understanding, know this though, that I will be cautious with everything you say, I don't know any of you people, and it would be just as easy to be brainwashed Eurocentrically as it would Afrocentrically. This, I refuse to let happen to me, I will take these as they come, and find the middle, the balanced center, rather then succumb to any form of extremism on either end of the spectrum.

Again, sorry, and thank you, and I forgive Afroman for having misconceptions of me, whether it was partially my fault or not.
Goshtoire ...

One of the poster [Noah] here is famous for noting Newton's Law or the Natural Law of Physics:

"Every action causes and equal & opposite reaction."

I'm at peace with that in terms of human interactions and accept that as law. However, I do feel there may be some mitigating circumstances that may cause the reaction to not simply be the reverse action of the first action - e.g. Black hate may very well be "different" than White hate.

That may very well be consistent with the Law Of Momentum or Newton's Second Law of Motion:

"In a collision between two objects, both objects experience forces which are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction. Such forces cause one object to speed up (gain momentum) and the other object to slow down (lose momentum). According to Newton's third law, the forces on the two objects are equal in magnitude. While the forces are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction, the acceleration of the objects are not necessarily equal in magnitude. In accord with Newton's second law of motion, the acceleration of an object is dependent upon both force and mass."

Basically that says to me that the force equation may be the same but the components - force and mass - may be very different in terms of approximate measure comparatively to the opposite force it may collide with.

Like Bilal said: "...most of us Black people are too busy worrying about staying afloat. We are also too busy trying to stay in one piece."

We are not concerned with world domination let alone revenge or dominating White people. Realistically... It would take some time before we could ever do that anyway and the humanizing consciousness of our own people worldwide as well as the resistance to domination by all the people of the world would not let that happen easily.

I think the pains to be fair in South Africa is an example of what is the guiding sentiment our people though it is no ways perfect. We don't have to be locked into a deadly competition of an "eye for an eye"...

I think the history of Black people in this country should prove out that we are more than willing to be peace-makers considering the war waged against us [still] on so many levels.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"No person is your friend who demands your silence, or denies your right to grow." - Alice Walker
Thanks for your always thoughtful and brillant input Nmaginate and Thanks Bilal for your testimony of Pride and Courage.

Indeed so many (too many) Europeeans do not feel at ease in HONEST Discussions about Racism. Because this EXAMINATION will prove that the Caucasian Domination, Rape and Enslavement of Africans were/are the incubator of Blacks present day (extreme) poverty, Inabilities and Undervelopment.

Goshtoire you must recognize that the demand for Black Power, Black History, Black Culture and Black Right of Self-Determination by Nationalist Africans is a desperate Cry of saying " We are HUMANS"! We are just reclaiming our Manhood lost after the European expansion into our Motherland. We do not seek to DESHUMINIZE anyone. REVENGE is not in the Spirit of AFRICANS. We only want to bring PRESTIGE and DIGNITY to our people. HEAL their BROKEN SOULS by proving that the Black Race had HISTORY and Culture of which we can be pround. We Denounce and REJECT the greatest Propaganda-LIE ever concocted to Demonize and exploit US. That's truly the Mission of Black Consciousness!

With this said I accept your Apology and welcome you (back) to the African Village to LEARN as much as you can to finally do the WORK YAHWEH has created you to do. To live in MAAT in Harmony and Balance with NATURE and the UNIVERSE, to LOVE, RESPECT and HONOR ALL HUMANITY (without distinction) for without their Contribution and Existence you would not LIVE! Indeed LIFE is a GIFT!


AfroMan.

[This message was edited by Afroman on June 01, 2003 at 09:27 PM.]
I haven't read thru this thread yet, but I do want to comment on the first post.

The thing to understand in your soul searching is that you really have two issues to deal with, not one: one is the hatred, the other are the notions of black inferiority. I split them because it seems to me that it's theoretically possible to think blacks are inferior and not hate or dislike them. The low opinion of blacks is a problem, but the hate itself shouldn't flow from it if you have it.

The next thing to consider is the historical record. Here's what the Arab traveller ibn Battuta wrote about the Mandingo people back in the mid 1300s:

quote:
The negroes possess some admirable qualities. They are seldom unjust, and have a greater abhorrence of injustice than any other people. Their sultan shows no mercy to anyone who is guilty of the least act of it. There is complete security in their country. Neither traveller nor inhabitant in it has anything to fear from robbers or men of violence. They do not confiscate the property of any white man who dies in their country, even if it be uncounted wealth. On the contrary, they give it into the charge of some trustworthy person among the whites, until the rightful heir takes possession of it. They are careful to observe the hours of prayer, and assiduous in attending them in congregations, and in bringing up their children to them.


Another of their good qualities is their habit of wearing clean white garments on Fridays. Even if a man has nothing but an old worn shirt, he washes it and cleans it, and wears it to the Friday service.

Among their bad qualities are the following. The women servants, slave-girls, and young girls go about in front of everyone naked, without a stitch of clothing on them. Women go into the sultan's presence naked and without coverings, and his daughters also go about naked. Then there is their custom of putting dust and ashes on their heads, as a mark of respect, and the grotesque ceremonies we have described when the poets recite their verses. Another reprehensible practice among many of them is the eating of carrion, dogs, and asses.


I included the "bad qualities" because they really aren't objectively "bad qualities," they just violate ibn Battuta's value system. But you notice: no notions of savagery, brutality, backwardness, lack of intelligence, ignorance, or arrogance.

The lesson here is that whatever problems blacks actually have, they didn't seem to exist much in the 14th century, before the Europeans got there and devastated the continent. When you consider the historical effects of colonization, enslavement, and the subsequent outrageous treatment, then you don't need to know specifics right away; your default presumption about blacks should be "equality plus oppression." We've actually done quite well when seen in that light.

And one other comment:
quote:
I would see fellow black students behaving in a very loud and arrogant manner, and I would think to myself, how can they be like this, when they have accomplished so little?


Do you see what's illogical about this statement? No individual forms his personality based on the relative "accomplishments" of his direct ancestors. If I'm the most popular guy in school, but I'm descended from the Yanomamo tribe of the Amazon jungle, am I supposed to act like some kind of loser because my tribe didn't invent blood plasma?

As for the "loud and arrogant" part," assuming an accurate interpretation on your part, many people build themselves up outwardly in order to hide deep seated feelings of inferiority. Don't think most blacks really, deep down, don't still have subconscious, slavery-based feelings that they're not as good as other people. I suspect you'd be surprised.

Anyway, good luck, and thanks for posting.
Why? Why not? Are we to just sit around and do nothing. No! If the Ex wants to come here and get some enlightenment well so be it. When I was younger, I hated White people. As I got older and went around the block a few times then I changed my outlook. Hate is based upon narrow minded ignorance by simple people who don't get around.

This is why we respond to this nergospirtual. You should go check out the message boards at www.bet.com. Some of the White Supremacist who come on there spit venom and hate. This guy who started this post is no where near as bad as the Racist who come to bet.

If it helps you any negrospiritual. Itelligence is contagious if you want to catch it.

Knowledge is Power
Ignorance is Oppression
well Bilal,
you must have missed your turn since you occupy your time classifying degrees of white racism. That this boy goshtoire may seem "not near as bad as the racists on bet.com" is not a valid justification for spending time in a circle jerk with an arrogant white boy.

BLack intelligence should be focused on black unity, not stroking adolescent white egos.
Laugh and the world laughs with you, Whine and you are soon all alone.

Could be you just don't get around. I have been to bet.com too many times and I have gone around a few times with them. I can tell you that yes this person is arrogant and he has got his head up his butt. He is not as bad as the Evil Caucasians who come to bet. If you need to see for yourself. Go to www.bet.com. Let us go a little extreme. Go to www.kkk.com,www.stormfront.com,www.whiteplanet.com.
I can also suggest you go to www.tolorance.org, it is a non racist site that will give you the address of a couple of racist websites. Go to www.google.com, and type up "White Supremacist websites." You can say whatever you want to say in response. I have read and dealt with Neo Nazis on the internet and in person. I can tell you that Evil people succeed when good people do nothing. If you want to sit back and ignore these folks that is your choice. If I make the choice to respond and give a small piece of my mind, well, that is my choice and not yours to make for me.

If you would read all of the responding post you will see that we are not stroking this person's ego but showing him that he won't take control of this board.

Knowledge is Power
Ignorance is Oppression
The only casual observance I've noticed about "White Haters" is that by the age of 40 to 50, their faces are so contorted, wrinkled, consumed by all that hatred, they look like aliens from another planet. It definitely takes its toll!! Makes ya Ugly!!
quote:
The only casual observance I've noticed about "White Haters" is that by the age of 40 to 50, their faces are so contorted, wrinkled, consumed by all that hatred, they look like aliens from another planet. It definitely takes its toll!! Makes ya Ugly!!
I'm not in to judging "looks" but your consumed with hatred wrinkle theory is... lol... too stupid for words.

Farrakhan must be a closet Whitey Lover [he must have a Blonde Haired Blue-Eyed concubine or something] cause he looks pretty good to me.

(I guess eating right and taking care of your health as much as possible has nothing to do with what you look like...huh? I do think you would call Farrakhan a Whitey Hater... though I would disagree... Maybe by your theory I'm right!)

Stupid theory!
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
I'm not in to judging "looks" but your consumed with hatred wrinkle theory is... lol... too stupid for words.


Uh - I know we're online, and I don't want to speak for anyone else, but can you say "tongue-in-cheek"? Ease up brah! Smile
222...

Whether Norland was serious or not and whether I needed to take it literally or not...
I just get tired of the typecasting claims that if you hold certain views then you are a certain way and that's a predictor of your life chances...

I don't happen to know Norland so I don't know his posting style...

Nevertheless... I don't agree with most of the Hate Whitey charges anyway... perhaps I spend too much time on BET.com where Whites that would make the same type of post would mean it literally.

Anyway... My Bad!
Nmaginate, fact is fact. I've never seen anyone who hates who's pretty. It contorts ones whole being. I don't care how much we post, we won't know each other. We don't all agree, but I have much respect for you all. It's called "individual" thinking. I ain't no bro'!!!! Born and raised around Caucasians all my life. They're not all bad, but they're not exactly a bed of roses either. Wasn't a bowl of cherries working with 'em either. These are MY opinions. You have the right to take them as seriously as you want.
By the way, I imagine I missed being in the times of Marcus Garvey by a couple of nanoseconds. I love Minister Farrakhan and loved Malcolm X, Angela Davis, Stokely Carmichael, the whole 9 yards. I was ALIVE before most of ya!! My Bad!!!
Norland...

You really didn't specify who and what [post] you were talking about... Never, anything personal. And I have no qualms about individual, different, independent or critical perspectives.

I look at things issue-by-issue...

It would have been interesting to have been a part of the Movement... I also would have loved to been old enough to be a part of Motown.

Me singing bass with some pretty boy crooner! Man... babes galore!

Peace, Bro!
Yep, you singing with either Smokey or the Temptations would have been my cup of tea!! I also grew up with Doo-Wop, Sam Cooke, Ella Fitzgerald, Dinah Washington and a whole host of others. All of those times were when people could really sing and music was music!! Times were much more innocent when I grew up, but international situations were just as fiery!! I thought you were upset with me because of my statement on how folks faces get contorted by hatred. It doesn't matter. For the last time: I'm not a Bro!! Big Grin
negrospiritual posted,

well Bilal,
you must have missed your turn since you occupy your time classifying degrees of white racism. That this boy goshtoire may seem "not near as bad as the racists on bet.com" is not a valid justification for spending time in a circle jerk with an arrogant white boy.

BLack intelligence should be focused on black unity, not stroking adolescent white egos.

*you are not lying negrospritual,

That whole thing is a waste and a diversion/distraction..It is almost like agreeing with a racist that tells you everyone is a "N" except you....a racist is a racist...there is not such a thing as a more desirable or less desirable racist....they are all undesirable.......simply amazing.....

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