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quote:
Originally posted by ronin10:
When woman becomes comfortable with you (as in friendship), the possibility of romance IS gone. Don't believe a woman that says otherwise.

This is an interesting topic. I have no studies to corroborate this assertion, but it is consistent with my life experience.

Through grad school, I was always the big brother, good friend, best buddy, and confidant to numerous women. We would hang out, shoot the breeze, go out for lunch or dinner, etc. When I expressed romantic feelings, I would get the "can't we just be friends." Mad The other thing that ticked me off often was that they were attracted to guys I would characterize often as jerks. Indeed, because we were such good friends, I would usually hear about how aweful these guys where bang.

I still don't understood this phenomenon.
It's the badboy thing.

They say they want to be treated with respect but their choices say other wise. Would it not be wiser to have a relationship with someone who has proven that they can be depended on, who respects your feelings, who you can talk openly to?- yes a friend.

Is not your spouse supposed to be your best friend? So why is it that we all get slagged for the choices that women make when they choose these asses?
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quote:
Originally posted by kresge:
Through grad school, I was always the big brother, good friend, best buddy, and confidant to numerous women. We would hang out, shoot the breeze, go out for lunch or dinner, etc. When I expressed romantic feelings, I would get the "can't we just be friends." Mad The other thing that ticked me off often was that they were attracted to guys I would characterize often as jerks. Indeed, because we were such good friends, I would usually hear about how aweful these guys where bang.

I still don't understood this phenomenon.


Trying to understand this "phenomenon" is something I have learned to accept and don't question...it is a rather futile endeavor and it seems it is either a phase ladies go tru and grow out of with time or stay in that phase for God-knows-when. I just learned to spot those stuck in tha phase and accept them as friends with a limied amount of exploitation but no more. Instead, I learned the hard way to seek those who TRULY seek nerds like me....they are usually nerdy and a bit older (>25). But there are exceptions to the age observations but usually not the nerdness. But again, I could bw wrong!
Let me just say that the best sex I've ever had was with the best male friend I've ever had. It makes perfect sense to me to want to seek a relationship in which I could enjoy the benefits of having a lover and a friend. That allows me to be completely open, honest, and know that I have someone to confide in about absolutely anything.

If you got it like that, you got it going on. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by SistahSouljah:
Let me just say that the best sex I've ever had was with the best male friend I've ever had. It makes perfect sense to me to want to seek a relationship in which I could enjoy the benefits of having a lover and a friend. That allows me to be completely open, honest, and know that I have someone to confide in about absolutely anything.

If you got it like that, you got it going on. Smile


Some men and most women do not realize this.
I think this sometimes happens because when there is an attraction felt by both people romance usually gets introduced into the situation before the two become comfortable as friends. Then if they're lucky the romance and friendship will grow at the same time. I think the friend zone thing happens for women and men because initially there was only an attraction from one of the people involved.

Another thing is that I think most people are pickier about who they develop a romantic relationship with than who they just hang out with (and rightfully so). People may be comfortable just hanging out with someone and they may see traits in that person that they know they wouldn't be able to accept in a mate.

And of course there is the immaturity issue for some people who don't realize that the best romantic relationships are the ones where you are friends as well as lovers, and as far as I can tell those are the only relationships that last.
quote:
Originally posted by Blacksanction:
They say they want to be treated with respect but their choices say other wise. Would it not be wiser to have a relationship with someone who has proven that they can be depended on, who respects your feelings, who you can talk openly to?- yes a friend. So why is it that we all get slagged for the choices that women make when they choose these asses?


First, a man isn't born a "bad boy," he develops into a bad boy because of all of the play he gets from women. The number one reason why the "nice guy" is so appreciative of women is because he rarely gets the opportunity to be around them. That's why he is so nice! If women were plentiful and easy for him to get, he would treat them just as poorly as the bad boys, because when you have plenty of something, you take advantage of it. When the person or thing is scarce, you value and cherish it more. Also, women are attracted to men who attract other women. It's natural for people to be curious about something others want. For example, if you entered a store and saw crowds of people clawing at each other to get what's on a sales table, wouldn't you be the least bit curious about what everyone is fussing over? Likewise, if a man has a lot of women vying for his attention, most women will want to know what it is about this person that these people find so interesting.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
First, a man isn't born a "bad boy," he develops into a bad boy because of all of the play he gets from women. The number one reason why the "nice guy" is so appreciative of women is because he rarely gets the opportunity to be around them. That's why he is so nice!

On behalf of the nice guys out there, I must respectfully disagree. In high school and college, and grad school, the overwelhming majority of my friends were women. In fact, it continues to this day. As I said above, however, I inveriably would find myself in the Friendship Zone, Big Brother, best buddy.

I think that the later part of your post, however, is more accurate. I think that most people like the flash and are initially turned on by the form as opposed to substance. And in the words of folobatuyi, I was and would probably be considered a geek (not a jock, not a play, physics and math major, serious Christian ...)

Fortunate for me, I finally found the most beautiful woman in the world - who is also kind of geeky - who is my now my best friend and wife. BUT IT SURE TOOK LONG ENOUGH lol
Like the song said, "Girls just want to have fun". And I think that women equate fun with men that have a "wild/bad side". Nice Guy/Stable Guy = BORING!

Also, there is that mothering instinct. I think they see a bad boy as a challenge...someone to tame. Women see things and ask "how I can make it better". Guy sees things and say "if it ain't broke don't fix it."

Then there is that "dick in a glass" thing that Chris Rock talked about. The guy in the "friend zone" is someone she can have "companionship" i.e. go out to movies, dinner etc and in case of an emergency...she can get some "maintenance sex".
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
quote:
Let me just say that the best sex I've ever had was with the best male friend I've ever had


But how long was he in the friend zone? Did you have sex early in the relationship then remain friends? Was he a friend for years and then you became sexually involved? And once you have sex with someone are thy still "just a friend"?


We were friends for quite a while and sex was simply something that, if we chose, could be part of our relationship. Once we had sex not a damn thing changed. Nothing was awkward. It all depends on how you handle things. Some people can have sex and remain friends with someone. It's all about what type of understanding you have with that person. I didn't look at my friend differently once we had sex. As a matter of fact, after the first time we got down, we had a laughing session and then a deep conversation...two things we used to do before penis met vagina.

Maybe I'm a special case. I'm not active sexually with my friend RIGHT NOW, but I'm about 99% sure we'll have a rendezvous sometime in the near future. There are special circumstances preventing us from being committed to eash other anyway. But if we choose to have fun that way, so be it. Smile We have great love for each other, and we can talk to each other about anything. He's the only person on earth I can open my legs, my heart, and my deepest darkest secrets to at the same time. tfro
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
Who here remembers the movie Superman II?

The "Phantom Zone" that scared the hell out of the Kryptonians.....well the same concept applies to the "Friend Zone."...once your in there, it would take a miraclous event to get you out of it.... bang


All I can remember from that movie is Zod and the two other people in black outfits...oh and that funny city fight against Superman.

The craziest thing about being in the friendzone is that the friend of interest intentionally or unintentionally takes advantage of the situation by leaving the possibility for romance open. The person of interest will truly never admit that there is NO POSSIBILTY for a relationship....therefore you end up bleeding to death.
quote:
Originally posted by kresge:
On behalf of the nice guys out there, I must respectfully disagree. In high school and college, and grad school, the overwelhming majority of my friends were women.


But you weren't getting any play from these girls. You were just somebody they needed for cheating on exams and doing their homework for them. It's not like you were intimate with any of them. Am I right? I make this argument because, typically nice guys get the chance to spend "quality time" with females, but they rarely get the chance to become intimate with them.

quote:
I think that most people like the flash and are initially turned on by the form as opposed to substance.


I agree with this observation, but I also understand it. How one presents himself or herself to the world is very important to me, and it was important to me when I attended high school. If you're going to walk around looking like you don't give damn about how others perceive you, then why should anyone find you interesting??? "Geeks" typically invest all of their time and energy in advancing their intelligence, but they neglect other parts of themselves that are important, and this is why they get no play. Jocks tend to invest all of their energy into themselves, which is not good either. So when I was in high school, what I would do, as I continue to do now, is to keep an eye out for those brothers who have mastered the art of amassing intelligence AND maintaining an impressive self-image.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by kresge:
On behalf of the nice guys out there, I must respectfully disagree. In high school and college, and grad school, the overwelhming majority of my friends were women.


But you weren't getting any play from these girls. You were just somebody they needed for cheating on exams and doing their homework for them. It's not like you were intimate with any of them. I'm I right? I make this argument because, typically nice guys get the chance to spend "quality time" with females, but they rarely get the chance to become intimate with them.

You are correct. "No play".
quote:
So when I was in high school, what I would do, as I continue to do now, is to keep an eye out for those brothers who have mastered the art of amassing intelligence AND maintaining an impressive self-image.

I agree that both are important. I guess the issue has to do with what constitutes an impressive self image.
quote:
Originally posted by ronin10:
When woman becomes comfortable with you (as in friendship), the possibility of romance IS gone. Don't believe a woman that says otherwise.


Actually this increases the potential for better sex.

My best sexual encounters were with women I am comfortible with, and of course this must take time.
quote:
Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
quote:
Originally posted by ronin10:
When woman becomes comfortable with you (as in friendship), the possibility of romance IS gone. Don't believe a woman that says otherwise.


very, very true. stay a mystery to a woman that you want to be 'more than friends' with. tfro


That's the reality. Familiarity breeds boredom, resentment, and then contempt. Stay a mystery so they have to keep chasing you. A wise man once said, "If she's chasing after you, she can't be getting rid of you".

I agree with what everyone has said about the "friend zone", but there's one aspect that hasn't been covered. Yes, you do want do be good friends with your lover, but they have to fall in love first. The romance can fade when you become friends, that's why it requires maintainence. But if your friends first, it usually means that there was no spark anyway, and the romance never really gets started.

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