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I was looking at the board game created by one of the new members, Our Empowerment, and was impressed by its well thought out concept and presentation. It looks like something you would want to play with your family and friends.

On the other hand... I received an email from a friend this week about another board game, created by a young Chinese entreprenor and was shocked and disgusted.

www.ghettopoly.com

(I can't seem to get the hang of posting a link here! Frown)
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by isistah:
I was looking at the board game created by one of the new members, Our Empowerment, and was impressed by its well thought out concept and presentation. It looks like something you would want to play with your family and friends.

On the other hand... I received an email from a friend this week about another board game, created by a young Chinese entreprenor and was shocked and disgusted.

http://www.ghettopoly.com

(I can't seem to get the hang of posting a link here! Frown)


First of all, allow me to thank you again for the love that you express in your welcome to me in the Nubie area.

I too got an email today speaking about gettopoly, except my attention was more drawn to the fact that a national retailer (Urban Outfitters) would stock the game.

What's interesting to note is that for the most part, the overwelming majority of Blacks see no humor in it at all.

In fact, on a White radio station discussion board apparently one of the listeners who was also a disscussion board member, won a gettopoly game, she was appeared happy to win but not so happy with her prize.

One of the other posters, when asked if he would buy the game, retorted "... buy it, hell no I'm a steal one!" hahahaha

NPR did a story on it, it didn't favor the publisher either, they had a very hard time trying to be 'balanced' in their reporting.

So apparently many Whites are embarassed by and at this too.

Although I don't know how his sales are doing, I can tell you by the look of the game, unless he has an uncle in the game printing business, he spent a pretty penny producing it.
Words from another site, I think is fitting for this thread.



quote:
From: Healer2K Oct-5 2:19 pm
To: KIND_uh_SHOOK unread (2 of 27)

55495.2 in reply to 55495.1

Thank you so much for posting about this outrage! Chicago's NBC5 news played part of an audio-recorded interview with the game's creator David T. Chang of Philadelphia. He said something to the effect that the game wasn't meant to offend anyone and that its harmless, "After all... its just a game." What it is, is CASH MONEY in this punk's pocket, making money by promoting stereotypes of different races of people. But he spits in the face of Black people worst of all, by having a racist caricature of a Black person on the cover of the game.

If the game is harmless, and is meant to make fun of stereotypes of numerous racial groups, why didn't David Chang A TAIWANESE IMMIGRANT put a racist caricature of a Chinese person eating rice on the cover? I wrote to him asking him that, but he never replied. His email address was on the Ghettopoly website just a couple of days ago, but I see he's removed it since then. Maybe because of my email? Not sure. Anyway... it was davidchang@ghettopoly.com

When you write your letters of complaint to the "customercare" address, CC: it to the "davidchang" address as well.


I am sure that David T. Chang can go to a Klan website and find gookopoly or chinkopoly. I am sure people of Asian descent would be offended by such a game, although no one would hear any protest of outrage about it; all the other minorities leave that to us and after social change has come about because of all the outrage and hell that black people in this country have raised, then the other minorities step in or step up to a place that has been made by others.
quote:
Originally posted by whatzgoingon:
has the NAACP become a strictly reactive organization instead of the proactive organization they once were?

Or is this just my "warped" outlook on African American affairs?




I don't think your outlook is warped at all. Looking at that game, I wondered just what exactly constitutes a hate crime.
quote:
Originally posted by isistah: ... Looking at that game, I wondered just what exactly constitutes a hate crime.


Tomorrow there is going to be a protest at Urban Outfitters' (I called them and they told me about the protest,) headquarters.

In my opinion, in keeping with your message as quoted above, the hate crime committed by Gettopoly and their accomplice should pay a dear price, most specifically,

For Urban Outfitters:

1) Appologize nationally (perhaps that will happen tomorrow)

2) Create a scholorship fund ($1 million) to promote excellence in urban (aka getto).

3) Fire every single person that was responsible for procuring the game, marketing the game, and selling the game. Someone along the line should have said something prior to it reaching the display.


As for gettopoly,

He should write a book on "The Evils of Racism" and give one to every person that he sold the game to.

Then sell the book and give all of the sales proceeds to his local "Urban League"!!

>

... its time for Prosperity


> > 

This came from a florida news paper in response to NAACP rally call to action.

quote:


Mark Morris, a spokesman for Hasbro Inc., the company that owns Monopoly, said it sent Chang a cease and desist letter in June. Chang has not responded to the company, Morris said.



Hasbro has the right to sue Chang for the damage it caused to its '...opoly' name,[apparently they have a monopoly on opoly in the game biz Smile].

Futhermore, if Chang is somewhat connected to Hasbro, even if they use the same printer, there appears to be some form of collusion, association, defacto permission, if you will.

That is why I have contacted Hasbro and asked them to file suit against Gettopoly forthwith.


All Hasbro, Inc. Products
Stacey Roberts
Hasbro, Inc
Sroberts@hasbro.com
401-727-5318




Since Chang thinks this is all satire, fun and games, let him play with 'Legal Touble' a version of Touble (the board game) that involves fools getting busted because they failed to think before they act.
What makes a crime be considered as a hate crime?
The FBI defines a hate crime (aka bias crime) to be "a criminal offense committed against a person, property or society which is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientatio, or ethnicity/national origin." 1 Thus:
If a thug beats up a randomly selected victim, the assault would not be considered a hate crime.
If a person assaults a friend or acquaintance out of anger, the assault would not be a hate crime.
If a thug beats up a victim who is a stranger and was selected because of their race, it would be a hate crime.
If a person delivers a hate speech denigrating all Jews, or Afro-Americans, or gays, then this would not be considered a hate crime anywhere in the United States, because no criminal act has occurred. Hate speech is protected under the First Amendment.
However, existing federal legislation does not recognize as hate crimes those criminal acts which specifically target women, the disabled and homosexuals.
Official definitions of hate crimes:
Typical hate crime laws criminalize the use of force, or the threat of force, against a person because they are a member of a specific, protected group. 2 Four definitions of the term "hate crime" are:
Hate Crimes Statistics Act (1990): "crimes that manifest evidence of prejudice based on race, religion, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, including where appropriate the crimes of murder, non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, aggravated assault, simple assault, intimidation, arson, and destruction, damage or vandalism of property." ( Public Law 101-275)
Bureau of Justice Administration (BJA; 1997): "hate crimes--or bias-motivated crimes--are defined as offenses motivated by hatred against a victim based on his or her race, religion, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or national origin."
Anti-Defamation League (ADL): A hate crime is "any crime committed because of the victim's actual or perceived race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, gender [male or female] or sexual orientation." 3
National Education Association (NEA): "Hate crimes and violent acts are defined as offenses motivated by hatred against a victim based on his or her beliefs or mental or physical characteristics, including race, ethnicity, and sexual orientation." 4
The word "perceived" is important, because many vicious assaults are based in error on the incorrect belief that the victim is Jewish, gay, or a member of some other group that the perpetrator hates.
Traditional hate crime legislation protects persons because of "his race, color, religion or national origin," as in the case of the 1969 federal hate crimes law. (18 U.S.C. Section 245). Most state laws now include additional protected groups. Some laws are restrictive and only protect a member of a group if she/he is involved in specific activities. For example, the current (1969) federal law only applies if the crime happens when a person is attending a public school or is at work or participating in one of four other "federally protected activities."

Existing state and federal hate crime laws:
The ADL reports (as of 2001-SEP-21) that: Seven states have no hate crime law (Arkansas, Hawaii, Indiana, Kansas, New Mexico, South Carolina, and Wyoming) 12
Twenty states have laws that do not include sexual orientation as a protected group (AL, AR, CO, GA, ID, MD, MI, MS, MO, MT, NC, ND, OH, OK, PA, SD, TX, UT, VA, WV) 13
Twenty-four states and the District of Columbia have laws that do protect people on the basis of their sexual orientation. (AZ, CA, CT, DC, DE, FL, IL, IA, KY, LA, ME, MA, MN, NE, NV, NH, NJ, NY, OR, RI, TN, VT, WA, WI) 13

On 2000-JUL-4, Kentucky became the latest state to have hate crime bill signed into law which protects persons of all sexual orientations.
The 1969 federal hate crime law: Covers race, color, religion and national origin only.
Does not include sexual orientation, gender or disability status.
Only applies if the victim of a crime is engaged in one of six federally protected activities.
quote:
Originally posted by obvious_1:
This may be a case of any publicity is good publicity. Since the media got involved sales of ghettopoly has increase drastically. It is reported that if you want a copy there is now a long waiting list. Frown


The waiting list only implies that there were alot of sales, I pressed them (Urban Outfitters) a few different ways for sales figures, they refused to give them.

When they said they took them off the display floor and are not ordering any more, does that sound like they returned games to the publisher or like they sold each and every last one?

If you go to the gettopoly web site, they say sold out, but yet they don't tell you how many sold, clearly if you struck success you want to tell how much of a success it was (like Mc Donalds).

I've read a number of articles that were written on the game, initially Chang was very happy to get interviewed, later he became very defensive, now he grants no interviews. I believe the defensive attitude was because sales were cold and the heat was on his racist behind.

Let's be pratical if you put out a product, regardless of how much people hate it, if your primary motivation was money and if you are making money, would you stop selling it?

I believe Gettopoly is out of business (for many reasons,) and I believe Chang has a lot of unsold games on his hands, furthermore I believe he is in a whole load of trouble which might cost him far more than any income he may have gotten from his sales.

Could you image what his parents are going through in the neighborhood, at their family buiness.

As for the waiting list my guess is many on the list are people that just want to make sure that as soon as the game is stocked again the protest is back on, they don't intend on actually purchasing the game, the game cost $32. that's not playdough. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by sunnubian:
What makes a crime be considered as a hate crime?
The FBI defines a hate crime ....


Those are their type of hate crimes; and therefore their responsility to prosecute.

However, I believe the type of hate crime experienced in the mass marketing of Gettopoly by Urban Outfitters in America is a hate crime perpetrated on Blacks that must be prosecuted by Blacks.

African Americans need not have anyone validate what we know and feel is an affront against us.
If they organizations are so outraged, why do these groups and people mobilize now, and not protest entertainers like 50 Cent, Snoop Dogg, or whoever else.

Why do our "leaders" get defensive when an "outsider" reenforces these stereotypes, but sit by and let our own get away with it? Where do you think this immigrant got most of these ideas about what "ghetto" is? All you have to do is turn on the TV and watch the latest video.

We willingly export this representation of our community through the music and entertainment throughout the world. We get all hot and bothered when someone from the outside tries to cash in on these images, but we seem to turn a blind eye to when it is done within the community.

In fact, I feel that these actions by our "heroes" and "idols" do more damage to enforcing stereotypes within OUR community than influencing outsiders because our black youth (and the not so young) get the idea mostly from PEERS and not the white media that this is what being a black American is about. This is partly why it is so hard for our children with the talent to make it sometimes cannot due to enormous peer pressure imposed on these young impressionable minds that to reject these images means you are not down (i.e. you don't act the part, so you must want to be white, etc).

That's enough ranting for me today.
Kevin41, we usually agree on most issues, but your last post, "What the hell makes you think blacks are so simple that f-king entertainers are heros?", we part company.

While it does not apply to all Black folk, or maybe even most, but just about everything our youth wear is first seen on videos. The type of vehicles they aspire to drive, along with the accouterments, it straight from songs and videos. Heck, the postures and "culture of hardness" are from the entertainment industry. It's sad, but true.

If you ask any school age child to name his/her heroes, a large percentage will name athletes or other entertainers, not for their contributions to the community, but for their ability to entertain.

Again, while most of us are far more thinking and/or aware, a significant portion of our community identify our heroes based on what the media shows us.

BTW, and a big BTW, this is not exclusive to the Black community, White young are similarly influenced.
It is certain that Kobe Bryant Wishes He had spent his time:

A. At home with his wife.

B. Playing Monopoly, or Ghettopoly,

than to be faced with the very real threat of:

C. Long prison time.

D. Losing all rights to past, present, and/or future lucrative endorsements.

E. Losing every dime worked for as a result of civil lawsuit for damages.

just by acting in real life, like one of the characters depicted in Ghettopoly!

________________________________________________

"Detective: Bryant Forced Woman to Have Sex
By Elliott Teaford, Steve Henson and Alan Abrahamson

Times Staff Writers

October 10, 2003

EAGLE, Colo. -- EAGLE, Colo. "” A sheriff's detective testified Thursday that the 19-year-old resort worker accusing Kobe Bryant of rape told police that the Los Angeles Laker star placed his arms around her neck and forced her to have sex, despite her protests and tears.

Eagle County Sheriff's Detective Doug Winters, questioned during an extraordinary preliminary hearing many believed wouldn't occur, testified that the woman said Bryant repeatedly asked her not to tell anyone about the encounter and made her promise to do so before letting her leave his room at an Edwards, Colo., resort.

The hearing included riveting testimony from Winters and contentious questioning from Bryant attorney Pamela Mackey, lasting more than five hours before it was continued until next Wednesday. Judge Fredrick Gannett will ultimately determine whether Bryant will be charged with felony sexual assault.

According to statements the woman gave Winters, her encounter with Bryant began with some mutual flirting during a tour of the resort. Bryant then invited her to his room, where he asked to see a tattoo on her ankle and invited her to join him in a hot tub.

The woman declined his offer, telling Bryant her shift was about to end and she wished to go home. Bryant then hugged her, which led to consensual kissing, the detective testified.

After she turned away from him to leave the room, Bryant grabbed her around the neck from behind with his arms. He pulled down her underwear, pushed her against a chair and raped her from behind, the detective testified. She told Winters she broke into tears after twice telling Bryant to stop.

After the woman agreed to promise not to tell anyone what happened, Bryant insisted that she kiss his penis before allowing her to leave. The woman ran downstairs to the lobby, meeting a bellman who had seen her with Bryant during the tour of the hotel. It was the bellman who first heard the woman's story.

Bryant, who did not testify in the proceedings, has said the two had consensual sex, but has proclaimed: "I am innocent" of the charges.

Mackey, his attorney, aggressively challenged Winters' testimony and seemingly every tidbit of evidence, including three photographs presented by Deputy District Attorney Gregory Crittenden. One photograph showed a small bruise on the accuser's left jaw; the other two were of vaginal injuries the prosecution said were the result of the rape.

In her cross-examination, Mackey brought the proceeding to a halt when she suggested that the woman's injuries might also be "consistent with a person who has had sex with three different men in three days."

Judge Gannett immediately "” and angrily "” called for a recess, emptying the courtroom and telling attorneys from both sides to meet him in his chambers.

Mackey was scolded earlier by Gannett when she used the accuser's name six times during her cross-examination.

She told the judge she would write herself "a big note" not to use the name again. Countered Gannett: "Or I could get you a big muzzle."

Mackey continued to press the detective, particularly about the bruises on the woman's neck. Winters said he did not know when she suffered the bruising and did not initially see the injuries.

"She talks (about) how Mr. Kobe Bryant grabbed her neck and choked her," Mackey said to Winters. "You looked at her neck to see?"

After Winters said he had indeed examined the woman for injuries, Mackey asked if he could see the bruises.

"Not from the front, no," Winters said.

"Not a red mark?" Mackey asked.

"That's correct," he said.

"Not a scratch?" she asked.

"That's correct," he said.

Some legal experts had predicted that the defense would waive the public hearing and go directly to trial. They had speculated that such lurid testimony in open court would be damaging to Bryant's defense.

Bryant, who had been in Hawaii at Laker training camp, arrived at the Eagle County Justice Center in a white SUV, part of a three-vehicle convoy. He walked inside through a metal detector. He took off a necklace before walking through.

With him were his attorneys, Mackey and Hal Haddon. Bryant did not speak to people outside.

Cameras were not allowed in the courtroom.

The charges stem from an incident June 30 at a resort in Edwards, where Bryant's 19-year-old accuser was employed. The next day she told police he had assaulted her.

Bryant, 25, has been free on $25,000 bond. If convicted, he faces a sentence of four years to life.

The Lakers have stood by Bryant, who had arrived a day late to the team's Hawaii training camp because of an undisclosed illness. He practiced with teammates for several days, but did not play in the Lakers' first two exhibition games.

There was no word about when he would rejoin the team, although he vowed last week to play this season.

Bryant's lawyers could have waived the hearing, avoiding the airing of potentially damaging testimony. Gannett had denied an earlier defense request to force the accuser to testify.

There were some 300 reporters and camera crews stationed in Eagle, with TV satellite trucks parked in a lot "” at $555 a space "” near the court.

Heightened security was evident. Everyone involved in the case, including Bryant, his accuser and attorneys on both sides, has been threatened by e-mail, letter or telephone.

Armed guards were outside the Eagle County Justice Center, and only one entrance was open.

Henson and Abrahamson reported from Eagle, Colo.; Teaford from Los Angeles."

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
We knew the name of Mike Tyson's accuser, where she was from and more. What's so special about this 19 year old chick accusing Kobe? Her Royal Highness' White-ness???? She had NO BIZNESS steppin' into Kobe's room after hours or otherwise. Personally, I'm O.J.'d out. Marcia Clark has stepped into the Kobe picture. Gawd!!!! No mo' fo' me. I wish Kobe the best! May he have learned his lesson; and may he have taught his fellow brethren.
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
what the hell makes you think blacks are so simple that f-king entertainers are heroes?


Kev,

I have to ask. Do you ever talk to black people who don't live in Suburban America? Who lived below the poverty line? Who grew up without a father, surrounded by drugs, violence and a sense of hopelessness? Forgive for saying so, but you seem to be very naive about what really goes in "in the hood."

I understand the need to want to highlight the positives that black America has achieved; but you cannot ignore the reality that most of us face in this country. The black middle class is growing, yes, and that is fine, but we cannot ignore the reality that for a majority of black people in this country, things are getting worse.

The way you describe your childhood is NOT how the typical black child grows up in this country, and reading your description makes me understand a little in understanding why you seem so offended by posts about the difficulties that black America faces from within.

You can stay in suburbia and imagine what you need to justify your perspectives and fit everything into your little boxes, or you can go out and really see now many black people who didn't grow up like you may see life.

Of course, you are a grown man and you don't have to do anything at all, because, after all, it's only an internet message board.
No bro,

You are buying into stereotypes of some as a broad generalization of all.....i go everywhere black people are hoods, projects, suburbs and even where rich blacks are....i am a black without a certain demographic....it allows me to have a broad perspective....i am sure I have been as many places as you and most others in here.....yeah a lot of people did not have my childhood...but in the hood it is not that blanket as picture of despair that you paint....I knwo plenty of people in the hoods that hold families together, demand that their kids produce and have kids who acheive just like anywhere else....but they, like myself are masked by the media's constant reinforcement of a "black life"......so no bro....I do what it takes to get people going and not just bask in black inadequacy...i am fully aware of the black condition....but more than most i understand and teach social science to get black people to see the link between knowledge and changing social conditions....i also know that the income gap between educated and non-educated blacks is bigger than that same gap for any other group, therefore making education more valuble for blacks than it is anyone else. yes bro.....my thing is to get them out of LA and into colleges(black) so they can get a different percpetion of themselves than what people keep trying to establish as their norm......so no bro......do not not try to base anything on my nievete...because i'm the kinda brother that goes everywhere and carry what is needed...whther it is my laptop to teach or my strap to regulate...and that does not just pertain to black people....because unlike most blacks....i have seen whites demonstrate the very same pathological behaviors blacks do....they are not as highlighted and celebrated by their own like we are......
Well said whatzgoingon,

"I have to ask. Do you ever talk to black people who don't live in Suburban America? Who lived below the poverty line? Who grew up without a father, surrounded by drugs, violence and a sense of hopelessness? Forgive for saying so, but you seem to be very naive about what really goes in "in the hood."

I understand the need to want to highlight the positives that black America has achieved; but you cannot ignore the reality that most of us face in this country. The black middle class is growing, yes, and that is fine, but we cannot ignore the reality that for a majority of black people in this country, things are getting worse.

The way you describe your childhood is NOT how the typical black child grows up in this country, and reading your description makes me understand a little in understanding why you seem so offended by posts about the difficulties that black America faces from within.

You can stay in suburbia and imagine what you need to justify your perspectives and fit everything into your little boxes, or you can go out and really see now many black people who didn't grow up like you may see life.

Of course, you are a grown man and you don't have to do anything at all, because, after all, it's only an internet message board." by Whatzgoingon

The Real Tragedy is Not So Much the Fact that A Korean Merchant is Making a Financial Killing Off of Ghettopoly, but Rather it is a fact of Life That Much of the Inflammatory Material Truly Goes On!

Kevin41 is just too pompous to have so much as a clue to the essense of your message. You may as well say, your message just went over his head. I wouldn't waste my time if I were you.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on October 10, 2003 at 08:17 PM.]
You just refuse to even try to understand what I am saying, don't you?

Paint me with whatver brush you need to to so it can make sense in your world because it is clear to me not that if it doesn't fit into Kevin41's viewpoint, it is clearly wrong and whoever said it the white man's pawn.

You sit in surburbia and sweeze your eyes tightly together and cover your ears and humm a happy tune while some of us are knee deep in the core of our community, the places you seem to not want to talk about, trying to instill some disipline and respect and pride and self esteem along with education so these kids can get past these obsticles you refuse to acknowledge are there.

So then a bigger percentage of our future 9children) can really be prepared for any and all the realities of life will bring instead of the few black kids who were blessed to be raised with middle class values.

Who's really the pawn in this game of life?
Lord, Dear God, may African people only be ALLOWED to GROW UP and LIVE THEIR LIVES from wherever they STARTED LIFE.

To hell with Gettopoly, Mr. Chang and any other Changs along the line. DON'T BUY THE CRAP!!!

Hi Kev; Hi Watz! Two brothers who were just exchanging views is how I saw this. That's all anyone does; hopefully, without hostile reprimand thumbsup.
Lofton,

Just because you can keep the V+ and Gnd wires apart please do not feel like you are qualfied to say what I cannot comprehend. You going waaay the hell above your head homie......but you fellas need to observe the neighborhood fom a micro-perspective and learn of the quietly kept best secrets. There are more of us doing beneficial things than one would like to know about....especially if it would help change the social perception, give the kids a blueprint to follow and not let racists and self-hating blacks bask in the misfortunes of others the way they do now. All that bullshit Lofton posts is masked as concern but it is nothing but celebrating the misfortunes and failures of others....so he can feel better about his own life.....thats why he bitches and moans but never has any suggestions to correct the very things he whines about.....what he should do is start taking some actions of his own to improve the situations he complains about......so while others are telling me what the f-k I do not realize, maybe they could travel along and start donating their time, money and knowledge to offset the things they seem to see as "just how it is"......I have...and why do black people think there is some kinda f-king mystery to the "hood"...puleeze, even if I had NEVER been around impoverished people (which I have......seen crackhouses, shoot-outs, ducked bullets from drive-bys, prosititues, drug dealers, drug labs and the whole nine in BOTH white and black impoverished areas)all I have to do is watch BET and look at that urban bullshit as it is normalized in the minds of kids through videos and the whole nine....but i'm a highly educated brother that has traveled all over and do not seperate myself from any strata of blacks.....thats how we grew up in Texas...raised that way.....always help the poor and work with them..from education, food, clothes and any other type of assistance you can name. I have friends who have their own medical clinics and I have friends that have not looked for a job in ages and some that have done time......I treat them all the same because unlike fake azz shallow azz blacks, I treat people based on how they treat me, not who they are or what they do......and believe me, even if that was the case...a black person does not have to identify with some stupid azz ghetto element to be an "authentic" black person...you can just research social science and understand the social implications of poverty and lack of education.....all those things you people seem to think are a mystery are nothing but pathological behaviors associated with a lack of educational and economic opportunities which leads to poverty for ANYONE.....so instead of me not going anywhere, It seems like many of us have never left our neighborhoods or urban enclaves to see what happens to poor people outside of them.......do not make class distinctions race distinctions....because they are not....only the systematic factors that relegated black people to theirs are race issues....but poverty and violence is not exclusive to blacks...and it is no great mystery that the greater society is masked from.....so quit acting like it is....please
whatzgoinon,

man you just don't get it do you......Don't limit my perspectives with what YOU think my experiences have been. I know how the gap from poverty is bridged into the middle and upper classes. I went to a black college with people who were damn near illiterate and kids of sharecroppers who did not even have shoes sometimes....these same people are now upper middle-class with unlimited opportunities for their children. The same with that urban crew....came up out of the hood from poverty and doing very very well at the present time based on the intake of knowledge that is proprietary in nature. Just because a person grows up middle class does not mean he is shielded from the rest of the world...you see in my eyes...there is getting an education....and being an educated person.....a person with an education has met degree requirements...an educated person is just as enlightened outside of the classroom and is viable anywhere....whether they are competing in the classroom...or carrying an AK in a really dangerous area to peel the cap of anyone trying to endanger them....their cognitive abilities remain the same and they think in terms of survival.....man I have been places in a couple of cities here in Cally and Fla and Tx that had nicknames such as "little vietnam"...go figure...but that does not make me any blacker than if I stayed in a library and read about those same places.......matter of fact, after teaching graduate public policy courses.....my research using entities like the National Urban Policy Institute has given me more perspective than even if I took my .45 out to kill gangbangers for terrorzing the hood my damn self. That social research (much performed by blacks)articluates the particulars of an impoverished existence and the social ramifications of is in more detail than if you rode around in the hood every day for 20 years. It is that level of observation and analysis that provides input for change.....not just identifying as a "hood rat" and thinking its a badge of honor because it made you tough...hell a 6-year old can fire a gun so there is nothing tough about it........so in additon to that research, read the JBHE.com site and look at all the material that describes the black social/economic conditon in america, the state of the efforts to combat it and what social and economic factors contribute to it or defeat it.....and if you read those two things along....you'll see between that type of info and my own social and educational experiences, i probably have a better take on things than most people who wake up in those conditions everyday....I know what caused those conditions, what they consist of and what rectifies them......and what people fail to realize.....you do not have to step out in front of a car to see if it'll hurt you....you know it will based on observation and other's experiences will tell you to what extent you would get hurt if you did step out in front of it......the same with any other phenomenon.....if one is a student of life..and I really find it amusing that I was able to put Dr. in front of my name as young lad..and not find it difficult at all to do so, but my people always think that the simple shit was a strain for me to learn.....simply amazing........blk folks got to give each other more credit and quit thinking we're are all locked in some ghetto or beourgeise ideological box.......that is not the case....some of us fit in and understand no matter where you place us.......
How is it you don't want anyone to put you in a box, yet that is the first thing you seem to do once some one disagrees with your perspective? Can't have it both ways.

I only keep commenting on your background because it is the only way I can justify your posts, because your perspective is either looking at it from a distance or just ignoring what you see. My point in calling you out about looking at things from suburbia is not that because you were born in a middle class family that you can't be down. It is that you seem to look at issues from middle class standards with middle class values and expect that all black people and all black families share those values. It is hard for you to understand that generations of people living as subhuman in mainstream (white) society could actually internalize mainstream society's generalizations of them. Your pride is getting in the way of your judgment.

If you don't believe that these kids look up to hip hop artists more than the do a doctor or a teacher, or you don't believe that the psychological aspects of being black in America are keeping us down much more then "the man," then what else can I call it but naiveté? If you believe that I am dwelling on the negative, then I am guilty. Until the majority of black people in this country are above the poverty line, until the number of black males in prison is much smaller than the number in college; until the number of healthy nuclear families far outweighs the number of single parent households; until things are much brighter for our community than they are now, I will continue to dwell on the negative. Just because a few of us have made it does not help me feel we have turned the corner.

All the books and all the research in the world cannot prepare you for what black children face in our communities today.

Blaming Mr. Charlie isn't enough anymore. Comparing our transgressions to other groups isn't going to cut it either. As valid as both perspectives are, the more we dwell on the outside manipulation of our image or our low positions in society and ignore the factors within ourselves that help keep us down, the longer we will stay where we are AS A WHOLE.

Until people are ready for some radical changes to occur, things will continue to be status quo with the black community. Some of our "leaders" and the older people out there who saw how bad it used to be are satisfied in how slowly things are moving. They believe the formula of the 60's is still viable. It's not, and the younger generation is suffering because our leaders are scared to move forward less then lose their place a the end of the line.

It's time to change the strategy folks. It ain't working no more.
Hello WhatzGoingOn,

"Until people are ready for some radical changes to occur, things will continue to be status quo with the black community. Some of our "leaders" and the older people out there who saw how bad it used to be are satisfied in how slowly things are moving. They believe the formula of the 60's is still viable. It's not, and the younger generation is suffering because our leaders are scared to move forward less then lose their place a the end of the line.

It's time to change the strategy folks. It ain't working no more." by whatzgoingon

With the exception of me, and a limited few, you are speaking the truth, and these very serious issues should be of importance to anyone who's interest is to improve the quality of life in the Black community.

Kevin41, is definitely pompous, and your message continues to elude him. This is strongly evidenced by his habit of comparing the shortcomings of a Caucasian community, with that of any Black community, to which in any event the Caucasian community, is not facing extinction, like that of Black America.

If I were you, I would not waste any more effort, or valuable time with the likes of Kevin41.

You are one of a few of a few people on this message board who has anything worthwhile to say, which truly relates to issues that should be of concern to Black people.

One of several examples to prove that the incompetence of Black people more so than any wrongdoing on the part of Caucasian America, make an already bleak picture even bleaker!

"Board Affirms Decision; King/Drew Training of Surgeons to Halt June 30

By Charles Ornstein and Tracy Weber

Times Staff Writers

October 11, 2003

An accreditation council on Friday upheld its decision to strip Martin Luther King Jr./Drew Medical Center of its ability to train aspiring surgeons, throwing into doubt the hospital's ability to function as a trauma center.

The Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education ordered the program to close as of June 30, quashing the hopes of doctors and administrators who had pleaded for a reconsideration.

Outside experts said the decision "” which is final "” will have a devastating effect on the hospital in Willowbrook, just south of Watts, and the largely poor, minority population it serves.

It is "almost inconceivable" for a busy urban hospital to lose its ability to train surgeons, said Dr. Paul Lin, surgery program director at George Washington University Hospital in Washington, D.C.

"It's a major blow, without question," said Dr. Jeffrey H. Peters, surgery program director at Los Angeles County-USC Medical Center. "It would be a rare trauma program that functions without a residency."

King/Drew's trauma center treats nearly one-quarter of the county's gunshot and stabbing victims and 11% of those involved in car accidents, assaults and other life-threatening injuries.

Surgery residents reacted with anger, saying that about 30 of them will be forced to find other hospitals where they can complete their five-year curriculum.

"We are shocked and we are in utter disbelief," said resident Dr. Almaas Shaikh, making a statement on behalf of her colleagues. "It is an abysmal display of the failure of leadership and lack of accountability that have allowed these circumstances to occur."

On Friday, the union representing the residents condemned officials at the hospital and Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, which runs the 18 training programs at King/Drew. The union accused them of underestimating the threat to the program's future, leaving residents to believe their positions were secure.

"Either they didn't get how serious it was or they were deliberately distorting how serious it was," said Josh Rutkoff, area director for the Joint Council of Interns and Residents. "I'm not sure which is worse."

Surgery isn't the only doomed training program at King/Drew. Last fall, the accreditation board revoked approval for the hospital's radiology residency program, a decision that also will take effect June 30. That means the county also has to find placements at other facilities for 14 radiology residents.

The accreditation council first indicated it would summarily withdraw approval for the surgery program in August. The immediate reason cited was that the program was training more residents than it was allowed.

But the surgery residency already was on probation because the council previously had found that trainees were not provided enough surgical experience, faculty research was inadequate and the curriculum did not follow recommended guidelines.

The hospital asked the council to reconsider the revocation, but on Friday the council upheld the withdrawal.

Dr. Thomas Garthwaite, director of the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services, which owns the hospital, agreed that "there are multiple failures at various levels." He called the accrediting council's decision "disappointing, but not unexpected."

King/Drew cannot apply to start a new surgery residency at the hospital because its overall graduate medical education program received an unfavorable rating by the accrediting council in 2000. The hospital had another review last month and is awaiting the results.

If it receives a favorable rating, it plans to seek approval for a new surgery program, said Walter Strong, vice president of university affairs at the Drew school. That process could take months.

Without the surgery residents, experts said, the county probably will have to spend much more money to hire more skilled surgeons from outside to take over at the 233-bed hospital.

Residents, typically recent medical school graduates being trained in specialties, earn less than $45,000 a year because they are still being trained, whereas more senior doctors can cost the county $100,000 to $150,000 each.

Even with a substantial budget increase, it will be difficult for King/Drew to recruit enough surgeons willing to cover trauma shifts 24 hours a day, seven days a week, said Dr. Bruce Stabile, chairman of the surgery department at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center.

He said it's a "huge concern" that the loss of King/Drew's surgery program will end up overwhelming surrounding hospitals, including Harbor-UCLA.

Garthwaite said he thought the hospital's existing surgeons could handle many of the operations now performed by residents.

"What we're paying the surgeon to stand and look over and supervise the resident, it won't cost any more for them to perform the surgery," he said.

But Garthwaite acknowledged that doctors might balk at the added tasks.

County Supervisor Yvonne Brathwaite Burke, whose district includes the hospital, said she had hoped the surgery program would get another chance.

Officials moved quickly to replace the facility's leadership and correct problems identified by the accrediting council, she said. "I'm very disappointed," she added."

Discussing the criminal wrongdoing of a Rush Limbaugh, Hugh Grant, Marv Albert, Michael Milken, Tommy Lee, etc., will not improve the quality of life, relating to Black America. Heck, these individuals are far removed from the community of Black America.

"None of that matters because white privilege is a fact of life in America, and the white man's rights must always be respected--even when he's wrong."

It is a given that white privilege exists. It is a given that Korean privilege exists. It is a given that Hispanic privilege exists. Plain and simple, every ethnic group seeks to protect their own first and foremost, the exception being Black people. White privilege is not causing the death of countless Black people, because Black People are the primary perpetrators! Substandard educational facilities within our community is not the fault of Caucasians, but rather those in positions of leadership who choose not to serve our community. Martin Luther King, A.K.A. "Butcher King County Hospital", A.K.A. "Killer King Hospital", is not being shut down because of Caucasian privilege, but rather blatant improprieties perpetrated by Black people in positions of authority. Because of the incompetence of our own doctors, administrators, etc., Caucasian doctors will be called in to raise the quality of performance at "Killer King". Can't say that Black people have not been given the opportunity to run the hospital, because they have.

In this instance Caucasians are not being summoned to the rescue because of privilege, but rather because of the blatant incompetence, and/or very substandard performance of Black doctors, administrators, nurses, etc. Mind you, these individuals failed not only themselves, but the entire community.

"It's time to change the strategy folks. It ain't working no more." by WhatzGoingOn

Very true, because should anyone show competency in what they do, the quality of work, and/or performance will speak for itself. Heck, there would be no point in summoning any outsider, to make the necessary reforms had Black America' own doctors, administrators, nurses, etc., done their jobs, as opposed to shirking their responsibilities.

If you are highly competent, you can keep Caucasians, and/or anyone else in check, as opposed to being placed in check, due to your own incompetence. There in no substitute for competency. Should Black people expect earned privileges on the level of Caucasians, Hispanics, Jews, Koreans, etc., then Black people must raise their level of competency.

This being said it would not matter as to what anyone thinks of you, because in the final analysis, being the best that you can be, is what counts,....not drama, not making excuses as to why not, not privilege, and definitely not playing the blame Caucasian America, and/or others, when Black people must also be held accountable!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on October 11, 2003 at 09:05 PM.]
Nobody is blaming schit on "Mr. Charlie" as you put it.....if you read my posts over the history of the time I have been here.....my posts consist of acknoweldging both the racist landscape of america and what needs to be done in terms of normal socialization of black kids and education to change social conditions. YOU people like to say that someone spends their time blaming the white man when the white man has never stop me from accomplishing more than the majority of white people themselves have......so that in itself would be contradictory in nature. But just because I succeeded DESPITE racism, i'm not going to be like the average successful negro and act like it no longer exists. What you people fail to look at is specific things such as attacks on affrimative action and the results of educational disenfranchisement and also to what extent the pathological behaviors black people exhibit are residual effects of the systematic poverty THIS country relegated blacks to for several generations via jim crow. People are quick to make f-ked up behaviors exclusive to black people......while never acknowledging the exclusive f-ked up social experiences we have had here.........I think the formulas of the 60's do still work...I really think that the race as a whole is not as socially conscious as it was in the 60's therefore not affecting as many people in a positive manner. I think the attainment of a few material goods which has always been the basis of self-adequacy in america made many lose focus and start to compromise their values. At that point the social breakdown began. I do not think it was not because the programs were not effective....hell, between 1985-2000 the number of black college graduates DOUBLED......that has to be a basis for social progress and economic viability.it just needs to be more widespread.....so when people are ready to socialize their children normally, turn off that BET bling-bling bullshit, force academic acheivement on their kids...the rest will take place....look at the social makeup of the educated of ANY race....they are less likely to be poor, less likely to be unwed parents, less likely to not have health care, etc....until we change our priorities and quit compromising long-term viability for instant gratification...we will have the problems we do today........
and by the way whatzgoingon....I do not care if anyone disagrees with me...I just have a problem when people do not tell me why they disagree....if they can break it down and refute it from a factual premise, then i'll change into their way of thinking...a learning person has to be humble or they will never become learned because they think they know every gotdamn thing...I have a problem with that "just because" dialogue that wasn't even allowed as a kid....so when conservatives and all come in wih bullschit you ask them to substantiate on a policy outcome basis and they cannot, what in the hell would make me look at them with any validity anyway? So whenever you ask them about their ant-affirmative action stance and Prop 54 favor and explain to them what the detremental results would be, THEY are the ones that skirt the f-king answer and start telling you what kind of person you are and how all black people do not have to think alike....which is true...but I do not accomodate stupidity on the part of others...plain and simple.....so no one has to agree with schit I say, but please do not insult my intelligence...thats all I ask.......
Yeah Lofton,

I figured you would excuse whites for anything and everything they do....hell you overlooked the PW types talking about hanging blacks with nooses and what the rope should be made of........so why don't you quit bitching and moaning and start offering suggestions to correct all you find so wrong with black people....are you capable? can your thinking extend beyond castigation of a race? try it.....but i doubt like hell if you can.......
I have to say, I am not offended by this game. I would not give some piece of cardboard that much power. If you look at the game, he has alot of things that are in the ghetto on the board. There is always a liquor store in the ghetto. There are drug dealers in the hood. I think the problem some people have is that the game isn't falsifying facts. He didn't make these things up, he definitely took alot of license with somethings, so what? Is that what defines a race? It is just a game.
That game doesn't bring new racism to light, it reminds us of current racism and sexism. It talks about pipms and hoes, we call our women hoes and being a pimp is a great thing these days (look at 50 cent & Snoop). All of a sudden, he's the enemy? We need to sneak up on a mirror, then we'll see the enemy.
End of the day, that taiwanese businessman is out for cash. When people don't buy the game, he'll stop. He's no racist, he said he's going to do other games like Redneckopoly. We need to realize a few things. He is reminding us pf issues that already exist. We take care of our problems and that game won't exist.

whip
Hello whipwrex,

"We need to sneak up on a mirror, then we'll see the enemy.

End of the day, that taiwanese businessman is out for cash. When people don't buy the game, he'll stop. He's no racist, he said he's going to do other games like Redneckopoly. We need to realize a few things. He is reminding us pf issues that already exist. We take care of our problems and that game won't exist." by whipwrex

I could not agree more. If this perverted and/or self destructive activity did not exist, this Taiwanese businessman would have little basis for the game. There is a very slim chance that this game would even exist, because such a perception would be next to impossible to create. Couldn't have conceived or perceived such an idea based upon life in Taiwan, because this lifestyle is very removed from the way of life of the Taiwanese.

Just like the sale of illicit narcotics or for that matter any other business endeavor, without a steady supply of customers the business could not remain solvent.

Hopefully, something positive comes from this discussion, in the interest of cleaning up our own backyard, so that games such as Ghettopoly would amount to a fictious set of circumstances, as opposed to the reality of life in the inner-city!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
Nobody is disputing that none of these things exist in the so called "ghetto," everyone is merely offended that once again someone is shining a spotlight only on the so called "ghetto" as if none of these things exist anywhere else. There is nothing going on in the so called ghetto that is not happening anywhere else, but as long as the racist propaganda machines only hold a micro-scope over only the so called ghetto, then it gives the misconception that the negatives only happens in the so called ghetto which has become in recent decades predominately Black in a lot of areas and this then fuels the stereo-types that we all have to deal with in one way or another. We know that a board game is not going to be the undoing of the entire African American race, I guess it just never ceases to be disheartening that another minority who's people were not too long ago suffering the same racism and abuse in this country would have a desire to pour salt into our wounds.
If this perverted and/or self destructive activity did not exist, this Taiwanese businessman would have little basis for the game. There is a very slim chance that this game would even exist, because such a perception would be next to impossible to create. Couldn't have conceived or perceived such an idea based upon life in Taiwan, because this lifestyle is very removed from the way of life of the Taiwanese.

Well why does he not have a sell little girls into sexual slavery board game for his native country. These things exist his his community and in every community and he made a concious decision not to make a board game depicting all the negatives of his community.
Well sunnubian,

"Nobody is disputing that none of these things exist in the so called "ghetto," everyone is merely offended that once again someone is shining a spotlight only on the so called "ghetto" as if none of these things exist anywhere else." by sunnubian

The Drug Addiction to Pain Killers by a Rush Limbaugh is not leading to the extinction of the Caucasian community! Furthermore Rush Limbaugh is not hanging on to life as a result of his addiction to pain killers, like the many "walking dead to the curb" Black people who are addicted to Crack, Heroin, PCP, and/or other illicit drugs! Furthermore, it is certain that the neighbors of Rush Limbaugh do not fear for their safety, fear for the safety of any family member, and/or perceive any loss of their personal possessions due to theft, burglary, armed robbery, prostitution, etc., to finance a drug addiction, like that of the typical drug addict of the inner-city

This is not to say that criminal activity does not occur in other communities. You miss the point. The only community to which such perverted and/or self destructive activity is very pronounced, pronounced to the point of the community facing extinction as a result of all of the above is in fact the Black community.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on October 11, 2003 at 09:07 PM.]

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