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Five Reasons to Skip College!
Think a college education is key to a bright future? Not so fast ...

College is expensive. Four years at an elite university like Princeton or Harvard will set you back around $160,000.

That's a lot of money, but consider the benefits: The professors, the coursework, the people you'll meet and the invaluable experiences you'll have. And, of course, the bottom line: You'll earn more money afterward. In fact, on average, the holder of a four-year college degree will earn 62% more over their lifetimes than a typical high-school graduate. And that's just on average. The return on investment for attending one of the nation's 25 or so most selective colleges is far more impressive. Money well spent, right?

Well, not necessarily.

Although there is clearly a correlation between earnings and a four-year degree, a correlation isn't the same thing as a cause. Economists like Robert Reischauer ruffled feathers several years ago by pointing out that talented, driven kids are more likely to go to college in the first place "” that they succeed, in other words, because of their innate abilities, not because of their formal education. Bill Gates, who dropped out of Harvard to start Microsoft, certainly doesn't fit the stereotype of a low paid college dropout.

In fact, more than a couple of billionaires never graduated from college. Larry Ellison, cofounder of database giant Oracle, dropped out of the University of Illinois and is now worth $16 billion. Fellow billionaire John Simplot, inventor of the frozen French fry, never even finished high school. Neither did Alan Gerry, who built the first cable television network in upstate New York and then sold it to Time Warner Cable for $2.8 billion.

REASONS TO SKIP COLLEGE
Is higher education a good idea? Click below for reasons it may not be ...
1. You'll be losing four working years
2. You won't necessarily earn less money
3. In fact, you could make more money
4. You can learn outside a classroom
5. Plenty of other people did fine
Source: Forbes.com

In fact, there is plenty of evidence that what really matters is how smart you are, not where "”or even if "” you went to school. According to a number of studies, small differences in SAT scores, which you take before going to college, correlate with measurably higher incomes. And, according to a report from the National Bureau of Economic Research, the lifetime income of high-school dropouts is directly associated with their scores on a battery of intelligence tests.

By this logic, the real economic value in a Princeton degree is not the vaunted Princeton education, but in signaling potential employers that you are smart enough to get into Princeton. Actually, attending the classes is irrelevant. A few years back, we even went so far as to speculate that an entrepreneur could build a healthy businesses by charging, say $16,000, to certify qualified high-school graduates as Ivy League material. (See: "Is Yale A Waste Of Money?") College-skippers could invest the $144,000 savings and have a nice nest-egg built up by the time they are in their mid-30s. And they could use their formative years between 18 and 22 to learn an actual trade.

For, in truth, most professions "” journalism, software engineering, sales, and trading stocks to name but a few "” depend far more on "on-the-job" education than on classroom learning. Until relatively recently, lawyers, architects and pharmacists learned their trade through apprenticeship, not through higher education.

Certainly some jobs "” medical doctors and university professors "” require formal education. But many do not, and between the Internet and an excellent public library system, most Americans can learn pretty much anything for a nominal fee. By all means, go to college if you want the "university experience," but don't spend all that cash just on the assumption that it will lead you to a higher-paying job.

© 2006 Forbes.com
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quote:
signaling potential employers that you are smart enough to get into Princeton.


I bet I wouldn't have gotten hired by IBM if I had not attended college at all. Certain names turn heads even if you don't graduate.

quote:
4. You can learn outside a classroom


Once you are in the door it is what you can demonstrate with your intelligence and knowledge that keeps the heads turning.

umbra
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
I bet I wouldn't have gotten hired by IBM if I had not attended college at all. Certain names turn heads even if you don't graduate. Once you are in the door it is what you can demonstrate with your intelligence and knowledge that keeps the heads turning.


I thought this article was interesting because it sort of emphasizes the point that in addition to a college degree, applicants for jobs must have the capability and skills to perform on the job. A lot of college graduates (myself included) finish college feeling entitled to a job simply because they've completed college. They expect for employers to simply "give" them a job just because they have proudly typed a college name on their resume and application. It's not after months of hitting the pavement that these graduates quickly realize that having a degree is common. Therefore securing a position becomes a matter of how well you have communicated and successfully convinced a employer of your worth to a company during an interview session that gets you opportunities to be considered for a position. This was a very disappointing and hard lesson that I had to learn soon after graduating.
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quote:
It's not after months of hitting the pavement that these graduates quickly realize that having a degree is common.


This is a point that David Hapgood emphasized back in 1974 in The Screwing of the Average Man. Once almost everybody has a degree they become nearly worthless but then you must have one to even be considered in the excess competition.

Economics isn't about jobs, it is about wealth. Working our lives away at jobs and not turning the income into wealth means we are all screwed in the long run. Except the rich. But college didn't teach financial management did it?

Schools teach everyone to concentrate on JOBS.

umbrarchist
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
Economics isn't about jobs, it is about wealth. Working our lives away at jobs and not turning the income into wealth means we are all screwed in the long run. Except the rich. But college didn't teach financial management did it? Schools teach everyone to concentrate on JOBS.


Of course, but it's not possible for everyone to start their own businesses either. If everyone "had their own business," then who would business owners hire to help run their businesses? This is why whenever I hear people pushing for everyone to start their own business, I wonder if business enthusiasts are actually thinking about what their asking folks to do. Ultimately, in order for this so-called "capitalist system" to work, we will need employers and we will need employees.
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My point is every household IS A BUSINESS. An employee is engaged in a business transaction with his employer. Every purchase is a business transaction. But businessmen don't want employees and customers to think like businessmen.

I had a former sales manager from Xerox tell me that he liked for his salesmen to be in debt because it made them hustle. If someone pays off their credit card every month the credit card companies call them "deadbeats." How can you be a deadbeat if you pay your bills? The companies want us to be dumb so they can make more money off of us and the schools only teach people to be employees they don't teach people to do a good job of serving their own interests.

Click on the Thumbnail



umbra
The Millionaire, Next Door?

I have a Bachelor's Degree in Business Administration, and so I understand the importance of telling folks to be savers instead of consumers, to invest more in their own interests rather than others', and to be consistent about building their financial knowlege and capital, but ultimately, everyone cannot be Bill Gates. And though we may not see these straight-laced and practical Bill Gates types spending their money on luxuries and other depreciating goods, what you don't see is that their trophy wives and priviledged sons and daughters are! I just grow so tired of people exalting business owners as if "owning a business" is the greatest accomplishment that a person can ever achieve. In our society, we do need teachers, doctors, nurses, firemen, construction workers, and other day laborers who are also important to our society.

Years ago, I was in a relationship with a guy who in partnership with his college roomate decided to establish a lavish retirement home for the elderly in Baltimore, Maryland. Once he and his roomate finally made this decision, all the planning, sponsors, and small business loans needed to build the retirement home was all he wanted to talk about. And for the better part of our expiring relationship, he began putting me down for desiring "just a job" as a teacher. Knowing that I had a degree in Business made him all the more enraged. In his eyes, I was not "reaching my fullest potential," and I should have been pursuing a MBA instead. I thought that was a very business-snobbish attitude to have. Simply because he had a desire to start a business does not give him a license to put down those who do not have such a goal.
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I read some of The Millionaire Next Door and what I like to point out to people is that it said that 36% of millionaires buy used cars. Why would millionaire buy a used car? To avoid depreciation. A new car can lose 30% in depreciation the first year.

This brings up the issue of planned obsolescence. 25 years before the moon landing engineers with slide rules designed machines that flew thru the air at more than 400 miles per hour. It is now almost 37 years after the moon landing. For $150 you can buy a used computer more powerful than anything NASA had in 1969. Why should we care about the changes in cars year after year? I think most Americans should have their homes payed for by now and this country should be on a 3-day work week. But instead we have WASTED TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS on useless variations in crap. Now we get to see the results of 50 years of that nonsense and some people want to keep it up.

Those nurses and firemen are necessary but that is no reason that they shouldn't understand accounting and have their homes payed for. This business of acting like only professional accountants should understand accounting is like saying only professional cyclist should know how to ride bikes. Silly rabbit, accounting is for kids. lol

As for Bill Gates, I would count my fingers after I shook hands with him. You need to know about Seattle Computers, Gary Killdal and IBM to see how he got to be the richest man in the world. A strange combination of legalized thievery and stupidity on the part of IBM.

I have been saying Black people world wide should standardize on Linux for five years now. Now if that got somewhere it would do wonders for Microsoft stock values. lol

umbra
quote:
Originally posted by folobatuyi:
But I loved college....and I needed it to get into med school.


Now the question is:

How much did you learn that was actually useful to being a doctor, and how much was just arbitrary and artificial requirements created by European tradition?

I once dated a woman that was a barber. There was a time in European history where the barbers were doctors. The barbering profession still has requirements that would be applicable to the medical profession to get a license as a barber. We are dealing with a knowledge control system not a TRUE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM.

umbra
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:

Now the question is:

How much did you learn that was actually useful to being a doctor, and how much was just arbitrary and artificial requirements created by European tradition?
umbra


European tradition??? Oh, so getting an education is trying to be white??? Umbrachrist, why don't you stop trying to dissuade Brother Folo from going to college. Leave him alone! Just because you don't like college, you can't put other people down!!!!! We need more Black men in college so leave him alone.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
Now the question is:

How much did you learn that was actually useful to being a doctor, and how much was just arbitrary and artificial requirements created by European tradition?
umbra


European tradition??? Oh, so getting an education is trying to be white??? Umbrachrist, why don't you stop trying to discourage Brother Folo from going to college. Leave him alone! Just because you don't like college, you can't put other people down!!!!! We need more Black men in college so leave him alone.


Putting words in my mouth are you?

Great technique!
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
I am not saying don't go to college. I am saying recognize the system for what it is.


Or what you're making it out to be. If Brother Folo wants to be a doctor Umbrachrist, then let him do what he wants to do because he needs to learn! Who knows, perhaps he may want to start his own practice. We need more Black doctors, and I am telling Brother Folo to go to college.

Ok, whatever. I'm not going to sit here and argue over this man as if he's a twelve year-old boy. Do you have a degree? Because usually it's the people who lack degrees that insist on hating on a college education.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
Economics isn't about jobs, it is about wealth. Working our lives away at jobs and not turning the income into wealth means we are all screwed in the long run. Except the rich. But college didn't teach financial management did it? Schools teach everyone to concentrate on JOBS.


Of course, but it's not possible for everyone to start their own businesses either. If everyone "had their own business," then who would business owners hire to help run their businesses? This is why whenever I hear people pushing for everyone to start their own business, I wonder if business enthusiasts are actually thinking about what their asking folks to do. Ultimately, in order for this so-called "capitalist system" to work, we will need employers and we will need employees.

Sister Rowe, every business does not require employees. To "be in business", a person only needs to bring some product or service to a market place that needs the product or service. Everyone doesn't have to build a Microsoft equivilent in order to be in business.

I am a big fan of small business. The vast majority of businesses in America are small, part-time, home-based businesses that are used to supplement a household's income. These types of businesses are a huge benefit because they decrease (not necessarily eliminate) the employee's dependence on their job. It's these types of businesses that lead to a stable economy.

I will conceed, however, that most people don't want to be in business. They want the security that comes with a regular and predictable paycheck. People also have a misconception that being in business automatically means that you are taking advantage of people. What these people fail to realize is that their employers are fully and unapologetically using them. Webster's Dictionary's definition of an employee is... "too be used". For an employee to be worth anything to a company, they must generate more revenue than they are paid.
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
quote:
Originally posted by folobatuyi:
But I loved college....and I needed it to get into med school.


Now the question is:

How much did you learn that was actually useful to being a doctor, and how much was just arbitrary and artificial requirements created by European tradition?

I once dated a woman that was a barber. There was a time in European history where the barbers were doctors. The barbering profession still has requirements that would be applicable to the medical profession to get a license as a barber. We are dealing with a knowledge control system not a TRUE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM.

umbra



I disagree...I graduated from college back in 1997. It is absolutely a requirement that one goes to college to get ino medical school. How else are you going to learn and master organic chemistry?
Looking back now, as a pathology resident a year away from being a full fledged pathologist...I can look back and say that the classes and the summer programs I took back then were really preparing and acually earmarked me (albeit not realized by me at the time)for my dream career. Looking back at college then, I feel like I was choosen for pathology and I believe I would have not have it if I did not go to college.
I did not go to an Ivy League college. I started off in a two year college in NJ called Essex Couny College (class of 1995) then transferred to Rutgers Newark (class of 1997). I went to high school in Nigeria (class of 1991). So after being at home for two years, I had a burning desire to go to college. I did not want to wait till after I took the SATs, so I took the GED exam in June 1993. I knew I wanted to be a doctor but I was not sure what kind. but I think my subconscious seemed to know as I was always leaning to things I know now pathologists tend to do.
So, I went into college with a burning desire to learn especially things scientific.
I love that...When among my educated associates, and any related subject of college comes up, people seem to have difficulty looking me in the eye. Especially my AA associates...you see, the assumption that I chose not to matriculate somehow implies an inability to comprehend the world. Not just geopolitics, or macroeconomics, or even The Calculus; but those things the "educated-types" take for granted: like arithmetic, or colloquial English.

They speak in guarded euphemisms, roll their eyes in my direction, they use phrases like: "usually it's the people who lack degrees..."

As if we lay-people were such horrid little peasants...

Still, I get invitations to cock-tail parties. Perhaps it would be best to stop interacting with my AA "Betters"?
quote:
then let him do what he wants to do because he needs to learn!


Hating onlol

What was I doing to stop him?

I can just as easily say women are always trying to translate things into emotional issues.

I won a National Merit Scholarship in high school and went to an engineering school for Electrical Engineering. I didn't get a course about electricity until 2nd semester sophomore year, Circuit Analysis I. They started talking about Kirchoff's Current Law. So I think great, "Finally they are going to talk about something I want to know." So when they explain it I think, "I knew that in grammar school."

http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/mastascu/elessonshtml/Basic/Basic4Ki.html

Kirchoff came up with this stuff in 1845. Physicists had not figured out the structure of the atom back then. This is something that could and should be taught to grammar school kids. At the time I was paying them $1100 per semester and going into debt to do it. I was fed up. I quit and got a job working for Panasonic where I could concentrate on electronics all day and get payed for it. This book has the info about Kirchoff's current law and costs $35.

http://www.nutsvolts.com/Store_Pages/Books/tchYrslfElctrctyElctrncs4Ed.php

It contains more info about what I really wanted to know than what I got from college for more than $4400 in two years. If you add this one and understand the contents then you're competition for an electrical engineer.

http://www.artofelectronics.com/

We have been thru this before and before Rowe. You get bent out of shape over people not conforming to and working within the system. The internet is going to change the system and I don't think all of the educators in the country can do anything about it. The system costs too much, delivers too little and takes too much time.

umbrarchist
quote:
Originally posted by thayfen:
I love that...When among my educated associates, and any related subject of college comes up, people seem to have difficulty looking me in the eye. Especially my AA associates...you see, the assumption that I chose not to matriculate somehow implies an inability to comprehend the world. Not just geopolitics, or macroeconomics, or even The Calculus; but those things the "educated-types" take for granted: like arithmetic, or colloquial English.

They speak in guarded euphemisms, roll their eyes in my direction, they use phrases like: "usually it's the people who lack degrees..."

As if we lay-people were such horrid little peasants...

Still, I get invitations to cock-tail parties. Perhaps it would be best to stop interacting with my AA "Betters"?


Thayfen,
I hail from an interesting household but living in Nigeria taught me that getting an college education or some form of technical skill was pretty much the only viable option for me. My parents were too poor for me to fall back on (yeah for polygamy!) and my dad was way too unsupportive and outright hostile towards me regarding my pursuit of a college education. So, being the nerdy boy I was, I had to find something I love to...hence college and beyond. I don't believe it is for everyone but in today's settings, at least some form of technical skill and/or training to acquire the skills to survive in any job setting one may choose.
Personally, I do not trust those especially whites who say that a college education is not important or is overrated. Because I have come to realize that there are those who really feel that a college education should be a priviledge and not a right yet are the very first ones who ensure that their children go to the best colleges or vocational schools across the world. Yet, they tell others a college education is not so important or it should be a priviledge or that is an question of IQ points. It is easy for them to say these things as they nor their forefathers were never denied access to resources to actually learn to read, write or take out loans to start out new businesses. Hence my distrust of conservatives of all forms including my dad. Because it is so reflective of the hypocritical bullshit that so characterizes their stances.
Anyway, I have learned to see the real message of "some folks not needing college" for what it is....besides I do not recall rich white kids or asians subscribing to this "message". I feel that in the 400+ years of struggle in the US, where our forefathers, despite the potential penalty of death by hanging as strange fruits, still took on the life-threatening risk of becoming literate by candle light. I really do not see why it is so looked down upon. If a thing needs changing, a good start would be getting a good understanding of it first.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Five Reasons to Skip College!
Think a college education is key to a bright future? Not so fast ...

College is expensive. Four years at an elite university like Princeton or Harvard will set you back around $160,000.


Yes indeed a college education is big business which is exactly why I believe universal college education should be a fundamental right.

Oops, did I say that? Big Grin

....waiting for the conservative windbags to crap on my post.
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:

quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Brother Folo, go to college.

appl


I am not saying don't go to college. I am saying recognize the system for what it is.


And whether we like it or not (and without regard to what we actually learn there or not) college is an absolute prerequsite for many jobs and career paths. Beyond that, although like Bill Gates, there are a number of noteworthy non-degreed success stories - it should be clear that they pale in comparison to those who earned college degree(s) on their path to success.

For me the bottom line is that although quality of education is critical, and what you do with it is paramount to your future, more education is always better than less.

Moreover, as black parents, it's absolutely important to teach our children to think critically in general, but in particular about what they learn in school.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
Sister Rowe, every business does not require employees. To "be in business", a person only needs to bring some product or service to a market place that needs the product or service. Everyone doesn't have to build a Microsoft equivilent in order to be in business.


Certainly, but like the young man with whom I was in a relationship, when people concede to establishing a business, they have BIG dreams to become a BIG time business owner. They desire the wealth, status, and income that is associated with having a large and successful business, all of which requires labor support.

quote:
I will conceed, however, that most people don't want to be in business. They want the security that comes with a regular and predictable paycheck


Or, they may not want to have their entire lives monopolized by the huge responsibility of managing a business. As a business student, I've learned about the grueling dedication and committment that it takes to make certain that a business withstands the five-year vulnerability period. As you know, most newly-established business fails within five to six years. In the end, if your business is successful, the pay off is rewarding, but if you're not one to take on this responsibility (and you actually want a life outside of working), then committing to such a goal may not be in your favor. But I definitely do not want to discourage African-Americans from establishing businesses, since we have too few of them in our community. My interest in this discussion is primarily to stress the importance of obtaining a college education.

quote:
People also have a misconception that being in business automatically means that you are taking advantage of people. For an employee to be worth anything to a company, they must generate more revenue than they are paid.


Of course. If an employer pays her employees more than what they are worth to an organization, then doing so certainly does not positively serve a company's bottom line. In any event, I do not share this misconception. In fact, I patron a lot of Black-owned businesses, mainly health food stores, in the Washington, DC area. Cleverly, these small-business owners have managed to circumvent the parasitic nature of entreprenuership and to avoid the costs of having to pay for labor by only hiring VOLUNTEERS, that is, people who are committed to helping a Black business succeed expecting no compensation in return. This way, the business owner can keep whatever profits that are made by the sell goods and services and reinvest more money back into the business. Now I think that is a wonderful idea; it certainly helps our businesses secure longevity.
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quote:
Originally posted by folobatuyi:
I graduated from college back in 1997. It is absolutely a requirement that one goes to college to get ino medical school. How else are you going to learn and master organic chemistry?Looking back now, as a pathology resident a year away from being a full fledged pathologist...I can look back and say that the classes and the summer programs I took back then were really preparing and acually earmarked me (albeit not realized by me at the time)for my dream career. Looking back at college then, I feel like I was choosen for pathology and I believe I would have not have it if I did not go to college. I did not go to an Ivy League college. I started off in a two year college in NJ called Essex Couny College (class of 1995) then transferred to Rutgers Newark (class of 1997). I went to high school in Nigeria (class of 1991). So after being at home for two years, I had a burning desire to go to college. I did not want to wait till after I took the SATs, so I took the GED exam in June 1993. I knew I wanted to be a doctor but I was not sure what kind. but I think my subconscious seemed to know as I was always leaning to things I know now pathologists tend to do. So, I went into college with a burning desire to learn especially things scientific.


You go boy! Do your thing! We need more brothers in the medical field. Keep up the good work. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by thayfen:
Especially my AA associates...you see, the assumption that I chose not to matriculate somehow implies an inability to comprehend the world. Not just geopolitics, or macroeconomics, or even The Calculus; but those things the "educated-types" take for granted: like arithmetic, or colloquial English. They speak in guarded euphemisms, roll their eyes in my direction, they use phrases like: "usually it's the people who lack degrees..." As if we lay-people were such horrid little peasants...


Ok, listen Brother Thayfen, I didn't mean to offend you or to express any level of bigotry. Again, I apologize. I know that people without degrees are good people who are smart and wise and know a lot of things too.
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
We have been thru this before and before Rowe. You get bent out of shape over people not conforming to and working within the system. The internet is going to change the system and I don't think all of the educators in the country can do anything about it. The system costs too much, delivers too little and takes too much time.

umbrarchist


Yes we have been through this before. And the moment I posted this topic, I knew that you, Brother Umbrachrist, would be the very first member to respond to it because of the grudge you have against standard education. I have my issues with the current educational system as well, remember. Review my response to MBM's topic, What Would You Do If You Were President. However, the difference between your ideas and mine is that they are a lot less provincial and narrowly-focused. Unlike you, I realize that a student's educational interests, effort, and time cannot center on electronics and technology all the time. A student also needs to learn how to write a decent sentence, how to communicate with others effectively, how to spell, how to obtain life and health skills, and a whole host of other skills and goals that must be accomplished outside of the electronics and technology field. I'm probably the only person who has the guts the tell you, but dammit brother, you are completely obsessed with your specialized interests (which is fine), but you must balance your interests too. Aren't you interested in anything outside of electronics???
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quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
And whether we like it or not (and without regard to what we actually learn there or not) college is an absolute prerequsite for many jobs and career paths. Beyond that, although like Bill Gates, there are a number of noteworthy non-degreed success stories - it should be clear that they pale in comparison to those who earned college degree(s) on their path to success.

For me the bottom line is that although quality of education is critical, and what you do with it is paramount to your future, more education is always better than less.

Moreover, as black parents, it's absolutely important to teach our children to think critically in general, but in particular about what they learn in school.


Excellent response Brother MBM.
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
Hating onlol

What was I doing to stop him?

I can just as easily say women are always trying to translate things into emotional issues.


Why is it that whenever a WOMAN expresses passion for an issue, she's thought of us becoming "emotional" ? This is what I do not understand, and it is precisely why, initially, I never reveal my gender to people with whom I am having a discussion. A woman, just like any man, should be able to express her opinion earnestly without being misunderstood or described as "acting out emotions."

Anyway, when you spoke about the "European tradition" in academia, I knew exactly what you were talking about. As an education major, I too was required to learn about educational theories proposed by predominately White male authorities like Jean Piaget, Lev Vygtosky, and Erik Erikson. I didn't like learning about these men either. I wondered why teacher candidates weren't required to learn about educational theories proposed by BLACK educational researchers like Gail Thompson and Gloria Ladson-Billings. I wondered why are our BLACK researchers' answers to America's education problems were being ignored. But then I realized that because Piaget, Vygotsky and others are considered to be the pioneers of White America's educational research, at least having some familiarity with their theories is expected of every education student, and consequently, there is nothing that I can say or do to wipe their memory out of the curriculum. Therefore, as Black college students, rather than waste our energy trying to turn every collegiate institution into an institution that focuses all of its attention on what we deem as important, we must continue to supplement the education that we receive in higher institutions of learning and demand that at least our perspectives and stories be INTEGRATED into the standard curriculum.

Brother Folo is interested in purusing Western medicine, and I applaud him for pursuing this goal. But I also urge him to supplement his Western education by educating himself about alternative medicine, holistic medicine, and other nontraditional perspectives of medicine so that he will be better able to address the concerns and problems of a broader range of patients, because not all of his patients will subscribe to the ideals and practices of Western medicine. I certainly do not, but if and when I do need to see a doctor, I would like for that doctor to be sensitive to the differing needs and perspectives of her and his patients.
quote:
Why is it that whenever a WOMAN expresses passion for an issue, she's thought of us becoming "emotional" ?



Who brought up the phrase hating on in this thread? lol

Then you are going to complain about what it conveys!!!

That's extremely logical Rowe. lol lol

I think your saying I have a grudge against the educational system tends to indicate that you don't comprehend being dispassionate about analyzing this issue.

The schools are used as a knowledge and cultural control system. I remember some of the conflicts between the lay teachers and the Christian Brothers at the Catholic high school I attended 30+ years ago. But all of the math and science courses I took were given by lay teachers. The nuns I had in grammar school didn't teach science at all and they were really crappy at teaching math. So all I am doing with my reading list is providing an additional source of information to what people get from school. It is up to anyone that checks out the books for themselves to evaluate how the quality and density of relevant information compares to what they are getting from school.

Now if the reader concludes the the quality and density is superior to what they are getting from school then what does that say about the schools?

One could also argue that since your economic interests are tied to the schools that you will defend them even if they are crap. If you watch the video that tmonster posted Who Controls Our Children with a White female teacher complaining about government control of the educational system in 1992 then you will see this must be more than a Black issue. How do you explain my grudge in relation to that? Is your only defense to try to project emotional crap onto me?

umbrarchist
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quote:
Originally posted by folobatuyi:
But I loved college....and I needed it to get into med school.


Folo, you are right, you need college, everybody does.

This article was also on AOL, and provided a picture of a young Black man looking like he was read to graduate and juxtaposed to the article was a picture of a Black NFL draftee with a separte link.

Like it or not, college is the path to success for Black people. I was 25 when I graduated from Law School I remember I felt like I had nothing to show for my life but pieces of paper. I went to a clerkship, and had no idea what was going on but with 2 weeks training before my job started I was ready to go. I went to the prosecutor's office, and even though I was admitted to NJ at the time, the Prosecutor himself told me I would not have been hired if I did not have that clerkship under my belt.

My point, we cannot afford to be undereducated. We are still the group that is the last hired and the first fired. We have always had to work twice and hard to get equality and now Forbes write this dumb as illinformed article. I wrote AOL as scathing letter about the folly of this article as they advertise "Get your Online College Degree at ...University."

I wonder are those NFL players going to let someone without degrees covering a wall manage their lives while they play football since they dropped out to get drafted.

The article is short cited, sure Bill Gates can be a drop out, he had connections at IBM via his mother's employment there. Who has those connections. Sure if you are a millionare, your kid may not need to go to college. But then again, I think Bill Gates kids are going to college, gee, I wonder why. I also wonder what Forbes' non college grad readership percentage is as well as the subscription rate.

I just did a college fair for my school. There were about 20 HBCU's represented and all of the NJ colleges. The teenage boys I met who came in looking like the Thuggish Ruggish Bone, all wanted to know how to get into college because they are worried about their futures without a college degree. I was happy to give them applications for my school, thier mindset belied how they were dressed, but then again they were teenagers and I dress crazy too back in the day. They all saw the writing on the wall, Forbes ....is clueless.
quote:
Originally posted by Nikcara:
Like it or not, college is the path to success for Black people. My point, we cannot afford to be undereducated. We have always had to work twice and hard to get equality and now Forbes write this dumb as illinformed article. I wrote AOL a scathing letter about the folly of this article as they advertise "Get your Online College Degree at ...University."


Thanks for responding. I don't think the article discourages readers from attending college so much as it does remind prospective college students that having a college degree does not guarantee employment. Once you've completed college, you will still need to "sell yourself" as they say to potential employers.

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