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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Brother Honestbrother, I realize that you are merely making a point, but just in case you were interested in knowing, I do not identify with the church either. In fact, I am vehemently opposed to the religious intolerance that is supported in traditional church environments. The church venue was only meant to be used as an example.


I thought that might be the case. But anyway thanks, Rowe, for acknowledging my point.
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:

If we can't get along, who's going to birth & raise more beautiful Black babies? heart


Yes i know that brothers get hurt too, but hopefully i'll have an opportunity to keep a smile on my mans face (when i find him), and give him the gift of a beautiful black baby....... heart


This holiday season, Let us all be warmed by thoughts of domestic tranquility and beautiful black babies Smile
quote:
I was not going to 'assume', that he liked me enough to take our friendship to that point.

It happens, and sometimes its just a lack of communication.


Do things like this happen because of how and when we are socialized – in high school and college?

When we were kids we may have found ourselves in a relationship after only having a few conversations on the phone and after holding hands walking down the hall at school but it should be obvious that it doesn't work for adults.

Why is it that two people will "be together" but be unsure if they "are together"? Why can't or don't people ask a simple basic question – were are we in this relationship? Maybe we do need to use some of our childhood tactics like slipping a note to the person we like with the "Do you like me – check yes, no, or maybe question?" Big Grin

Why do we get stuck in these long term relationships and still not know "were this is going"?

How about just asking the person.

quote:
so why can't our focus be on what can be done to improve it?


And that's the point I was trying to make and why DO we have to play the tit for tat game?

I have to agree with those that disagree that men are single because they want to be. I know men that want to settle down and are looking for the right women. But the prospects seem bleak to them and the reason is that these women come with so much baggage and defensiveness.

So both sides have serious issues – it not JUST the problem that black men are dealing with.
how have we gotten off topic? i think everyone has been discussing their feelings in relation to the topic at hand. all things said have been relevant IMHO.

rowe;

LOL. . .i don't think i want to be seen as being on any side but what i think is right. . .but, in this case, i get your joke. . .just cuz the numbers are in their favor doesn't mean we can't do something productive to meet one. . .

to the married, the single, the angry, the calm, the males and the females, i have this to say:


HAPPY HOLIDAYS YA'LL! appl
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
But the prospects seem bleak to them and the reason is that these women come with so much baggage and defensiveness. So both sides have serious issues – it not JUST the problem that black men are dealing with.


Here we go with the infamous baggage. And from where do you think the "baggage" derives? How did the woman get the baggage? You all continue to acknowledge the "infamous baggage," but you conveniently choose not to acknowledge HOW the baggage piles up in the first place! (Refer to Mary Blidge's latest CD, The Breakthrough, track #8 "Baggage" for a better understanding of how a Black woman gets her baggage). In any event, my interest in this topic differs from some other women responding to this thread. I do not believe that Black men are "worthless," and I definitely do not hold you as an individual accountable for the actions of every Black man, just as I hope you would not hold me accountable for the actions of women that you encounter. However, I, like many others, have acknowledged that there is indeed a problem in our communities, problems that clearly involve a disproportionate number of Black males in undesirable situations. That is not a blame, it is the truth.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
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Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
honestly bruh, it'll get ignored cuz we agree with it.


Wow Radio, a total of five articles targeting desparate women. You are definitely on a roll my brother. For one thing, I never read Ebony, Essence, or any literature of this type. The reason is because often times the images and message represented in these magagzines are in fact designed to create anxiety and insecurity in girls and women. This is in fact how this industry earns its billions annually--by feeding off the fears and anxieties that they have created. Not a month goes by that I don't peep some magazine reminding women and girls of what they don't have and what they need (Notice most of the magazines target women). It's no wonder why women are constantly worried about getting a man, keeping a man, being prettier, being younger, being thinner, having more, having less, etc. because these parasitic magazine editors won't let them forget!!! This is why I warn women, especially young girls, to steer clear of such magazines and to very be critical of the messages that they convey. Better yet, DON'T READ THEM. Read literature that will EMPOWER you and edify your mind. This is how you will attract quality people in general, and not just men.


You are on point !!!
Some Sisters suffer from low self-esteem. Society, relationship experts say, teaches that Black women are the lowest on the social scale--what Zora Neale Hurston calls "mules of the world." "Men have a much higher self-esteem," says Moore. "They are taught not to settle. No matter how they look or what age they are, they believe that they can get Halle Berry. Most women believe they can't get Denzel, so they take whoever is around. It takes a courageous woman to say, `You're a wonderful man, but you're not for me.'"


I agree with this above........
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Originally posted by Rowe:
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Originally posted by little minx:
Are you kidding? this forum is awash with women who do feel that it is difficult to find a relationship with a black man. maybe that's not an issue for you and me, but let's not ignore that many women on this forum do feel that finding a man to have a RELATIONSHIP with is difficult.


Again, the problem with the masses of today's Black women not being able to find quality men has less to do with what Black women are doing (or not doing) and MORE to do with the lack of availability of men who are of equal status. That is a reality that my latest article "Relationship Dilemma" addresses, and is a reality that apparently you and Brother Raheem are dismissing.

Frenchy asked the question (paraphrasing) "What is the point of having a "gameplan" when there aren't enough available players?" For example, I can go to church--an obviously nice place to find decent men--with a gameplan, but if men are scarce in the church, my gameplan is useless. But when I go into the county jails and detention units, the drug-infested street corners, the drug and counseling rehab facilities, and the local bars and liquor stores, in those environments, I will find Black men are plentiful! My "gameplan" would be useful in these environments, but what is the probability of any woman wanting to establish relationships with men in those situations, if she is smart? This is why, again, focusing our "gameplan" on African American women is a mistake, because compared to Black men, African American women are doing alright. So lets move on to the real issue. The gameplan should and definitely needs to focus on, first increasing the education, job skills, and job training of Black men so that they will be prepared to lead families and consequently become more attractive options for Black women. Having a mission is fine, but understanding why the mission is necessary in the first place is important.


I was agreeing with you until you wrote this. Are you advocating that women do not work on themselves and that the problem all lies at undesirable men??? Don't you believe this problem is more complex than that. I see that both men and women work on themselves before they start dating and getting into relationships.
Again, my interest in this topic extends far beyond simply "dating" and "finding a good man." I am interested in how Black men's absence in our communities, families, schools, universities, etc. are impacting African American relationships and communities in general. Individually, everyone needs to "work on themselves," because no one is perfect in that sense. So making such a suggestion is irrelevant. You will need to "work on yourself" until the day you die, as an individual. But the important question is WHAT DOES OUR COMMUNITY NEED? WHAT IS PREVENTING OUR COMMUNITIES FROM PROGRESSING, as a collective unit. Where are the fathers to our children? Why are a disproportionate number of Black boys being tracked in school and placed in special education programs? And consequently, why are a disproportionate number of Black men filling jails and/or lowly positions of employment, and not institutions of higher learning? What do we plan to do about this, together? These are the issues that concern me.

This business about who is blaming who was introduced as a result of some people becoming defensive and feeling as if they are expected to carry the burden of shame for all Black men, when that is not what I (I can only speak for myself) ever intended for male posters to do. I don't fault Black men. I don't think they are worthless. I have had very good relationships with Black men, but I am still very much concerned about our community, especially young Black males in schools.
This thread went off when we made comments about anything other than dating.

The advice to the individual is important. It ultimately determines which collective units we choose to participate in. If a person refuses to acknowledge that they have issues to resolve (or need for personal growth), how can they can be a productive member of the collective? There has been a lot of "There's nothing wrong with me, you must be the problem!" coming from men & women in this thread. Consequently, it devolved into the normal gender-based bickering. bang
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Again, the problem with the masses of today's Black women not being able to find quality men has less to do with what Black women are doing (or not doing) and MORE to do with the lack of availability of men who are of equal status.


The unfortunate truth is that only a small minority of todays black women hold these levels of standards and prerequisites for men. If most black women held moderate to high standards for black men to meet, black men will conform out of paternal instinct like they did in times past. From the beginning of time, women of all cultures looked for men who were good providers first before bearing their children. Only in the last 40-30 years has black women allowed black men to continue his seed without marrying them first. This is the same time that government assistance seemed to substitute the lost income of the husband (Welfare, Section 8, Friend of the Court, food stamps, etc.)

Majority of black women today do not require a man to marry them, be in a position of a good provider or display characteristics of stability. The black woman has allowed the black man to spread his seed without getting married first, keeping a decent job or abstaining from criminal activity.

The complaints by many black women do not carry any weight because black women still allow and deal with the same issues that they continue to grip about. Many black men do not take the complaints of many black women seriously because they put up with it time after time. Many brothas will stop cheating when sistas leave the relationship instead of sticking around. Many brothas will become good providers when sistas require it before a relationship and children. Many brothas will stay out of the penial system when sistas stigmatize men involved in criminal activity.

Bad values, ethics and the lack of personal responsibility has made many self defeating behaviors and decisions seem O.K. for both sexes. Black men should not ever expect to be able to spread his seed without first marrying and providing for that black women. Conversely, black women should not allow herself to get pregnant by a man who has not married her and cannot provide for her.
quote:
Many black men do not take the complaints of many black women seriously because they put up with it time after time. Many brothas will stop cheating when sistas leave the relationship instead of sticking around. Many brothas will become good providers when sistas require it before a relationship and children. Many brothas will stay out of the penial system when sistas stigmatize men involved in criminal activity.


Is the Black man so morally and intellectually bankrupt that he is incapable of pursuing these things on his own? Must he be coaxed into these things (that are primarily to HIS benefit) by the Black woman? How embarassing.
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
Is the Black man so morally and intellectually bankrupt that he is incapable of pursuing these things on his own? Must he be coaxed into these things (that are primarily to HIS benefit) by the Black woman? How embarassing.


That sense of embarrassment and shame (or lack of it) is what controls or limits many about the decisions that they make. Values and Ethics that are reinforced within families and communities are the tools used to either frown upon or accept certain behaviors.

For many of the simple (which make up most of any race), the instinct to continue their genes is the primary driving motivation in life; taking the shortest distance between two points to accomplish this. If it is not necessary for a man to have himself together to do this, then..............

Depending upon "people" to be morally correct is a mistake. All governments recognize this.
quote:
Originally posted by detroit1:
That sense of embarrassment and shame (or lack of it) is what controls or limits many about the decisions that they make. Values and Ethics that are reinforced within families and communities are the tools used to either frown upon or accept certain behaviors.
..............
Depending upon "people" to be morally correct is a mistake. All governments recognize this.


In your earlier post you seemed to lay all the responsibility on women.

Which is it?

(1) Men being responsible for themselves?

(2) Women giving men the motivation to be responsible for themselves?

(3) Families & Communities reinforcing certain norms for both men and women?

(4) Government taking the lead?

These are 4 different things and you seem to just wander aimlessly among them....
quote:
Originally posted by detroit1:
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Again, the problem with the masses of today's Black women not being able to find quality men has less to do with what Black women are doing (or not doing) and MORE to do with the lack of availability of men who are of equal status.


The unfortunate truth is that only a small minority of todays black women hold these levels of standards and prerequisites for men. If most black women held moderate to high standards for black men to meet, black men will conform out of paternal instinct like they did in times past. From the beginning of time, women of all cultures looked for men who were good providers first before bearing their children. Only in the last 40-30 years has black women allowed black men to continue his seed without marrying them first. This is the same time that government assistance seemed to substitute the lost income of the husband (Welfare, Section 8, Friend of the Court, food stamps, etc.)

Majority of black women today do not require a man to marry them, be in a position of a good provider or display characteristics of stability. The black woman has allowed the black man to spread his seed without getting married first, keeping a decent job or abstaining from criminal activity.

The complaints by many black women do not carry any weight because black women still allow and deal with the same issues that they continue to grip about. Many black men do not take the complaints of many black women seriously because they put up with it time after time. Many brothas will stop cheating when sistas leave the relationship instead of sticking around. Many brothas will become good providers when sistas require it before a relationship and children. Many brothas will stay out of the penial system when sistas stigmatize men involved in criminal activity.

Bad values, ethics and the lack of personal responsibility has made many self defeating behaviors and decisions seem O.K. for both sexes. Black men should not ever expect to be able to spread his seed without first marrying and providing for that black women. Conversely, black women should not allow herself to get pregnant by a man who has not married her and cannot provide for her.


I agree somewhat with what you said. But your post made it out as if women are responsible for the actions of men who CHOOSE to be criminals or father many children out of wedlock.This I disagree with. If a man wants to be a male-whore or a criminal, it has little to do with what women are demanding but his CHOICE to become that.

I do believe that black women- and all women, sometimes create drama for themselves by getting into relationships with no-good-men in the first place.Having high moral standards would definately help solve the many problems women have today.
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
quote:
Many black men do not take the complaints of many black women seriously because they put up with it time after time. Many brothas will stop cheating when sistas leave the relationship instead of sticking around. Many brothas will become good providers when sistas require it before a relationship and children. Many brothas will stay out of the penial system when sistas stigmatize men involved in criminal activity.


Is the Black man so morally and intellectually bankrupt that he is incapable of pursuing these things on his own? Must he be coaxed into these things (that are primarily to HIS benefit) by the Black woman? How embarassing.


Exactly !!!
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
Is the Black man so morally and intellectually bankrupt that he is incapable of pursuing these things on his own? Must he be coaxed into these things (that are primarily to HIS benefit) by the Black woman? How embarassing.


Frenchy! Why do you say everything that I am thinking. kiss Anyway, its difficult for me side with any argument, because I made the very same point Brother Detroit is making earlier in our discussion: If more women raised their standards, then Black men would fall in line. But what you are saying here is true also. Black men should want these things for themselves, not because they want some pussy. If your only incentive for wanting to get married is sex, then that is kind of sad. And why does all of the moral responsibility of remainig virtuous have to fall on the women? Why can't men learn to keep their legs close by pursuing marriage before sex too? More double standards!
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
I agree somewhat with what you said. But your post made it out as if women are responsible for the actions of men who CHOOSE to be criminals or father many children out of wedlock.This I disagree with. If a man wants to be a male-whore or a criminal, it has little to do with what women are demanding but his CHOICE to become that.

I do believe that black women- and all women, sometimes create drama for themselves by getting into relationships with no-good-men in the first place.Having high moral standards would definately help solve the many problems women have today.


appl
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:

I do believe that black women- and all women, sometimes create drama for themselves by getting into relationships with no-good-men in the first place.Having high moral standards would definately help solve the many problems women have today.


This is so true......so many times, women treat men as though they are married to them.......and complain when he walks. Roll Eyes

In addition to this, black men should be held accountable when they make bad choices in life.
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Originally posted by Rowe:
Frenchy! Why do you say everything that I am thinking. kiss Anyway, its difficult for me side with any argument, because I made the very same point Brother Detroit is making earlier in our discussion: If more women raised their standards, then Black men would fall in line. But what you are saying here is true also. Black men should want these things for themselves, not because they want some pussy. If your only incentive for wanting to get married is sex, then that is kind of sad. And why does all of the moral responsibility of remainig virtuous have to fall on the women? Why can't men learn to keep their legs close by pursuing marriage before sex too? More double standards!


thanks
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Black men should want these things for themselves, not because they want some pussy. If your only incentive for wanting to get married is sex, then that is kind of sad.


Some black men do want these things for themselves but most don't and we should not expect most to do the right thing out of their own free will.

From a social science standpoint, we are talking about millions of people here, most of which are sheep-like that need to be guided and steered in the desired direction of the authority or government by systematic laws and guidelines.

Sure a man can decide to be a criminal or whore, but why are women dealing with this type? There is no shortage of ghetto queens for the ghetto thug. For every brother getting out of penitentiary, there is a black woman allowing him to shack up with her. Besides a few verbal complaints now and then, most black women will allow a man who isn't working to move into her home, drive her car and eat up all her food even though he is selling dope and just moved out of another womens home.

Pre-1970, black women did not support and move in black men. If a black man did not marry and couldn't show that he could provide for a family, he did not spread his seed.

My intentions were not to blame women alone but to point out the ignorance of both sexes.
quote:
Originally posted by detroit1:
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
Is the Black man so morally and intellectually bankrupt that he is incapable of pursuing these things on his own? Must he be coaxed into these things (that are primarily to HIS benefit) by the Black woman? How embarassing.


That sense of embarrassment and shame (or lack of it) is what controls or limits many about the decisions that they make. Values and Ethics that are reinforced within families and communities are the tools used to either frown upon or accept certain behaviors.


When white people want to abolish certain unacceptable societal behaviors, they attempt to produce a sense of embarrassment and shame via ad-campaigns.

They have made it a mission to "square-up" white teenagers into thinking that it is "uncool" to smoke cigarettes, do drugs and have teenage sex.
Some black men do want these things for themselves but most don't and we should not expect most to do the right thing out of their own free will.

bs This just sounds like Black male bashing. Most Black men don't want positive things for themselves? Most Black men just want to have babies and not loving relationships? That's simply not true. Yes there are a few real jerks out there, but I am in no way prepared to say that this is true for the majority. Yes we do have a lot of single parents out here, but in most cases there are a lot of complex reasons why the relationship did not work, but it's not the case that the man is just out here plotting on how to get women to have kids by him.
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
But the prospects seem bleak to them and the reason is that these women come with so much baggage and defensiveness. So both sides have serious issues – it not JUST the problem that black men are dealing with.


Here we go with the infamous baggage. And from where do you think the "baggage" derives? How did the woman get the baggage? You all continue to acknowledge the "infamous baggage," but you conveniently choose not to acknowledge HOW the baggage piles up in the first place! (Refer to Mary Blidge's latest CD, The Breakthrough, track #8 "Baggage" for a better understanding of how a Black woman gets her baggage). In any event, my interest in this topic differs from some other women responding to this thread. I do not believe that Black men are "worthless," and I definitely do not hold you as an individual accountable for the actions of every Black man, just as I hope you would not hold me accountable for the actions of women that you encounter. However, I, like many others, have acknowledged that there is indeed a problem in our communities, problems that clearly involve a disproportionate number of Black males in undesirable situations. That is not a blame, it is the truth.

Why is it that 99% of the time when baggage is being discussed it is a woman's issue. Men come into relationships with hella baggage too. We all have a past and we hopefully try to learn from our mistakes. However, it's sometimes a fine line between trying not to repeat past mistakes and treating everyone like they are out to hurt you because you've been hurt in the past. I just got into a discussion with a guy last week and he was telling me that for about two years after his divorce he was a dating nightmare for a woman because he thought that any woman he encountered would do the same things to him that his ex-wife did. Both women and men go through this, and I'll be the first to admit that I have gone into relationships carrying plenty of my own baggage. (I acknowledge it and I'm working on it so leave me the hell alone! hit laugh)
But seriously, this is by far not a female issue it's a people issue.
quote:
Originally posted by powerflower:
bs This just sounds like Black male bashing. Most Black men don't want positive things for themselves? Most Black men just want to have babies and not loving relationships? That's simply not true. Yes there are a few real jerks out there, but I am in no way prepared to say that this is true for the majority. Yes we do have a lot of single parents out here, but in most cases there are a lot of complex reasons why the relationship did not work, but it's not the case that the man is just out here plotting on how to get women to have kids by him.
........................
I do not believe that Black men are "worthless," and I definitely do not hold you as an individual accountable for the actions of every Black man, just as I hope you would not hold me accountable for the actions of women that you encounter.
........................
Why is it that 99% of the time when baggage is being discussed it is a woman's issue. Men come into relationships with hella baggage too. We all have a past and we hopefully try to learn from our mistakes......... I just got into a discussion with a guy last week and he was telling me that for about two years after his divorce he was a dating nightmare for a woman because he thought that any woman he encountered would do the same things to him that his ex-wife did. Both women and men go through this, and I'll be the first to admit that I have gone into relationships carrying plenty of my own baggage. (I acknowledge it and I'm working on it so leave me the hell alone! hit laugh)
But seriously, this is by far not a female issue it's a people issue.


kiss Smile eyes kiss Smile eyes
quote:
Originally posted by detroit1:
Sure a man can decide to be a criminal or whore, but why are women dealing with this type?


Perhaps my girlfriend's situation can answer this question for you. She is a very ambitious and determined young woman. However, despite recently being awarded a Master's degree, landing a new job, and buying her first home, she continues to pair herself up with low-aspiring men. Her justification for dating these types of men is that she never wants to turn anyone away for not having what she has. The problem is, she continually finds herself emotionally drained and financially exhausted from having to cover most of the expenses incurred in the relationship. Sure, she keeps a man in her life, but she is often times unhappy with the men she encounters. I don't know what's going in other cities, but in Washington, DC, this is the dilemma with which many sistas are contending. Very few men are earning enough to support families. Many of them have not educated themselves due to poor family backgrounds, parents' low expectations, differential treatment, or poor-performing public schools. Consequently, they are either unemployed or underemployed, which leaves many sistas here with two choices: Have a man and be disappointed OR Maintain your standards and be lonely.
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quote:
Originally posted by powerflower:
Some black men do want these things for themselves but most don't and we should not expect most to do the right thing out of their own free will.

bs This just sounds like Black male bashing. Most Black men don't want positive things for themselves? Most Black men just want to have babies and not loving
relationships? That's simply not true. Yes there are a few real jerks out there, but I am in no way prepared to say that this is true for the majority. Yes we do have a lot of single parents out here, but in most cases there are a lot of complex reasons why the relationship did not work, but it's not the case that the man is just out here plotting on how to get women to have kids by him.
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
But the prospects seem bleak to them and the reason is that these women come with so much baggage and defensiveness. So both sides have serious issues – it not JUST the problem that black men are dealing with.


Here we go with the infamous baggage. And from where do you think the "baggage" derives? How did the woman get the baggage? You all continue to acknowledge the "infamous baggage," but you conveniently choose not to acknowledge HOW the baggage piles up in the first place! (Refer to Mary Blidge's latest CD, The Breakthrough, track #8 "Baggage" for a better understanding of how a Black woman gets her baggage). In any event, my interest in this topic differs from some other women responding to this thread. I do not believe that Black men are "worthless," and I definitely do not hold you as an individual accountable for the actions of every Black man, just as I hope you would not hold me accountable for the actions of women that you encounter. However, I, like many others, have acknowledged that there is indeed a problem in our communities, problems that clearly involve a disproportionate number of Black males in undesirable situations. That is not a blame, it is the truth.

Why is it that 99% of the time when baggage is being discussed it is a woman's issue. Men come into relationships with hella baggage too. We all have a past and we hopefully try to learn from our mistakes. However, it's sometimes a fine line between trying not to repeat past mistakes and treating everyone like they are out to hurt you because you've been hurt in the past. I just got into a discussion with a guy last week and he was telling me that for about two years after his divorce he was a dating nightmare for a woman because he thought that any woman he encountered would do the same things to him that his ex-wife did. Both women and men go through this, and I'll be the first to admit that I have gone into relationships carrying plenty of my own baggage. (I acknowledge it and I'm working on it so leave me the hell alone! hit laugh)
But seriously, this is by far not a female issue it's a people issue.


strong work!
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by detroit1:
Sure a man can decide to be a criminal or whore, but why are women dealing with this type?


Perhaps my girlfriend's situation can answer this question for you. She is a very ambitious and determined young woman. However, despite recently being awarded a Master's degree, landing a new job, and buying her first home, she continues to pair herself up with low-aspiring men. Her justification for dating these types of men is that she never wants to turn anyone away for not having what she has. The problem is, she continually finds herself emotionally drained and financially exhausted from having to cover most of the expenses incurred in the relationship. Sure, she keeps a man in her life, but she is often times unhappy with the men she encounters. I don't know what's going in other cities, but in Washington, DC, this is the dilemma with which many sistas are contending. Very few men are earning enough to support families. Many of them have not educated themselves due to poor family backgrounds, parents' low expectations, differential treatment, or poor-performing public schools. Consequently, they are either unemployed or underemployed, which leaves many sistas here with two choices: Have a man and be disappointed OR Maintain your standards and be lonely.


how old is your friend? If she is over 30, then it sounds like she is taking the best deal on the table. I'm from the MD area, educated in DC[Georgetown U], returned to DC after grad school and have found that black women are the least approachable women of the all. Many DC black men agree with me on this. That's why there are so many mixed couples in the surrounding areas, i.e. Northern VA, PG County, Gaitherburg MD, Bethesda MD, and Silver Spring MD...have you ever been to Georgetown?? Adams Morgan?? [ALL HIGH RENT DISTRICTS AND FULL OF PROFESSIONAL BROTHERS] Brothers are available, they just are choosing other.

Also, I think you need to add 'change your funky attitude' to your "Have a man and be disappointed OR Maintain your standards and be lonely." list. Smile Happy New Year!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
....she continues to pair herself up with low-aspiring men. Her justification for dating these types of men is that she never wants to turn anyone away for not having what she has. The problem is, she continually finds herself emotionally drained and financially exhausted from having to cover most of the expenses incurred in the relationship. Sure, she keeps a man in her life, but she is often times unhappy with the men she encounters.


I'm sick and tired of hearing black women dog out their ex-boyfriends who were worthless, unemployed crack-heads totally ignoring the fact that he was in that same position when she "chose" to be involved with him. Ain't nobody tell her to find her man in the alley......then take him home, feed him, cloth him and buy him a playstation.

These same women will also defend their bum-ass boyfriends if you say something bad about him; then turn around and hate on brothas who have themselves together assuming that they're arrogant and bourgeois.

Many black women will continue to remain clueless and Stuck-On-Stupid if they stay in these states of denial by refusing to accept any personal responsibility for the men they "chose" to let into their lives.
quote:
Many black women will continue to remain clueless and Stuck-On-Stupid if they stay in these states of denial by refusing to accept any personal responsibility for the men they "chose" to let into their lives.


Well, just accept that Black women will not change and therefore Black men need to take responsibility for that and change to accomodate that. If Black men did not date these women who were Stuck On Stupid amd clueless, they would not be that way. They should not be expected to do those things of their own free will. Pre-1970, Black men did not seek out and put up with women who were clueless or unappreciative of their achievements. Sure Black women could chose to act responsibly and/or intelligently, but why are Black men dealing with this type and then having the nerve to complain about it? Now, now, don't mistake my words. I'm not putting all of the blame on men. Just pointing out the ignorance in both sexes.

bsm

P.S. In what universe do white kids think it's uncool to do drugs and have sex?!? Do you actually know any white people? Because them folks not only think it's cool, but they routinely blow themselves up trying to manufacture that shit.
quote:
Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
quote:
Originally posted by folobatuyi:
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Originally posted by qty226:
In addition to this, black men should be held accountable when they make bad choices in life.


May the same apply to the ladies as well.....


you wont get that admission here, not in the 'sista's spot' laugh




Folobatuyi, yes women should be held accountable for their actions as well........its just that i find that women are being held to a much higher standard than most men..........which to me is not fair.

RadioRaheem......you seem to have a dislike for women in their 30's........and im going to assume youre in your 30's, and not married, etc. (if this is not true, then i apologize).

But my question is........what makes you any different, than a woman in her 30's?
quote:
i find that women are being held to a much higher standard than most men

From all the back and forth that we – black men and women – do, it would appear that can be said for both sides.

One rule I think all people should follow is "Don't ask of others what you are not willing or able to do yourself in return".

I always find it funny see a fat, bald, bad dressing brother who has his mind set on dating a super model. We can get a beer belly and look like a dressed up Easter egg but let woman put a little baby weight and men are ready to trade them in.

And then you have women that want a man who is willing and able to do "traditional" women's work like cook and be involved more with the children, as well as make good money and be a "provider" but she can't boil water, got a litter of bad ass, ill mannered, undisciplined children, and no education above high school or professional career.

quote:
which leaves many sistas here with two choices: Have a man and be disappointed OR Maintain your standards and be lonely


And I can tell you about brothers in the same boat. Very few women at "his level" and the ones who are have major emotional issues.

But in the end it all boils down to personal responsibility. No one makes a man or a women make the choices they make in life, who they date, have unprotected sex with, jump into relationships whiley barely even knowing the other person, overlook or play dumb to obvious issue a person they are dating is having etc.

I think every person should have to sit down and make a list of all their past relationships and then write how THEY caused it to fail not what the other person did. What could you have done better? In hind sight, did you put "blinders" on in some cases becasue you were so attracted to the other person?

P.S QTY226, you MUST be a model? You always seem to have very nice pictures of yourself. You're very photogenic
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
quote:
i find that women are being held to a much higher standard than most men


I always find it funny see a fat, bald, bad dressing brother who has his mind set on dating a super model. We can get a beer belly and look like a dressed up Easter egg but let woman put a little baby weight and men are ready to trade them in.

And then you have women that want a man who is willing and able to do "traditional" women's work like cook and be involved more with the children, as well as make good money and be a "provider" but she can't boil water, got a litter of bad ass, ill mannered, undisciplined children, and no education above high school or professional career.




I guess both men/women can only see their side of things...because of experiences.

But i have issues with those that 'want' more than they 'are'.

As Sweetwuzzy mentioned.....

"Some Sisters suffer from low self-esteem. Society, relationship experts say, teaches that Black women are the lowest on the social scale--what Zora Neale Hurston calls "mules of the world." "Men have a much higher self-esteem," says Moore. "They are taught not to settle. No matter how they look or what age they are, they believe that they can get Halle Berry. Most women believe they can't get Denzel, so they take whoever is around."


.......And now what im noticing, is if a black woman is educated, buying her own home, cars, etc........and NOT taking "whoever is around", shes a bitch with an attitude.

I just dont get it........ Frown



quote:
P.S QTY226, you MUST be a model? You always seem to have very nice pictures of yourself. You're very photogenic


Thanks!! Smile Nahhhh im not a model, i just have crazy parents, that are into photograhy!

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