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quote:
The dearth of suitable African-American mates is one of these urban myths.


D, I've asked you this before, but didn't get a reply: When is the last time you were looking for a suitable Black man to date??

Your insistense on pushing this thought is dismissive of the body of knowledge that women who are out in the dating world bring to these discussions. You are effectively saying "What you see and experience is a 'myth', a lie, a figment of your imagination." td6
quote:
Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
With the current dating situation as described by many black women, i'd say a change is needed. Unless those womens main point is to sit and complain about men, they would probably benefit from some 'gameplan' advice.


I don't think you're understanding how worthless it is to work on only one half of the Black population. Again, a gameplan will not help you unless there is a receptive dating pool for you to try it out on.

quote:
* with a gameplan, you will be[and here it goes again] taking charge of your dating situation, or like the article says 'dating like a man' does.


RadioRaheem, again, I can "take charge" as the day is long, but if the other half is not receptive to building a relationship, it's fruitless. If we are not both working toward the same thing or seeing the value in knowing/meeting/loving each other, the take-charge gameplan is of absolutely no help.

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dating predates marriage right?? ...so better dating would lead to better marriages...which leads to better families...which leads to better community...


Better people lead to better dating. Wiser people lead to better dating. Not better/wiser women alone. bsm
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
quote:
The dearth of suitable African-American mates is one of these urban myths.


D, I've asked you this before, but didn't get a reply: When is the last time you were looking for a suitable Black man to date??

Your insistense on pushing this thought is dismissive of the body of knowledge that women who are out in the dating world bring to these discussions. You are effectively saying "What you see and experience is a 'myth', a lie, a figment of your imagination." td6


I don't have to date Black men to recognize that a lot of my brothers are quality people that somehow are not "suitable" for dating & marriage by the determination of (some) Black women. You make it sound like we're all worthless - guess all the good men died in our parent's generation... Roll Eyes

I'm not being dismissive - I simply don't agree with the assessment. Define suitable (because if I go to the dictionary, you're going to get upset tongue). This is at the heart of the issue. If you can't clearly express what you need & want, it's always going to be tough to get it. I will reserve any further commentary until I see "suitable" and "equal status" (or any additional criteria jargon) defined.
You DO have to be looking for a Black man to date in order to intelligently discuss how easy it is to find one, what is actually out there in abundance, etc. You don't have any experience trying to find a Black man. Neither you nor any other man is qualified to speak about what that experience is like. It is the equivalent of me telling you what it is like to lift weights, despite never having done it before, simply by looking around at people around me who lift weights. sck

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You make it sound like we're all worthless - guess all the good men died in our parent's generation...

This is your own projection. NOT what I have actually said at any point.

quote:
Define suitable

Suitability largely depends on the individual's tastes. However, I would say that in general, a "suitable" mate is one who is respectful, and financially/spiritually/emotionally/intellectually ambitious.

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If you can't clearly express what you need & want, it's always going to be tough to get it.

Not sure why you included that statement. I suspect it's in the same vein as your buddy RadioRaheem's. The problem is not that Black women cannot express what it is they want. That's not what's holding us back from serious relationships, trips to the altar, etc.
Most people that have dated have experienced having to find a mate that meets their standards. That challenge is not gender specific. I honestly believe a lot of men & women do not know what they need in a mate or how to make themselves appealing to the mate that will meet their needs . This deficiency is often masked with the lie: "There are no good men/women available.".

I'm still waiting for the list of issues you (& others) have with Black men - can't work on the "problem" unless it's defined... Confused

Have you ever had a suitable mate? Just curious...
quote:
Most people that have dated have experienced having to find a mate that meets their standards. That challenge is not gender specific. I honestly believe a lot of men & women do not know what they need in a mate or how to make themselves appealing to the mate that will meet their needs . This deficiency is often masked with the lie: "There are no good men/women available."


D, please listen to women re: available suitable men. There are comparatively few left who even meet a bare minimum of criteria. Tis no lie. Fall back and learn a thing or two about a thing or two. ohsnap tongue

quote:
I'm still waiting for the list of issues you (& others) have with Black men - can't work on the "problem" unless it's defined...

You're not waiting on that list from me, because you never asked me for one. And really, I feel like we've probably touched on that before. Primarily, what bothers me is a fundamental lack of respect.
quote:
This thread isn't the place since it's supposed to celebrate Good Black Men but I would love to see your full list of complaints against Black men (and men in general).


What part of this asks me a question? You expressed a desire.

And you have the balls to actually LINK me directly to it! laugh

Going to bed! In any event, I answered your question already in my last post. kiss
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by little minx:
Are you kidding? this forum is awash with women who do feel that it is difficult to find a relationship with a black man. maybe that's not an issue for you and me, but let's not ignore that many women on this forum do feel that finding a man to have a RELATIONSHIP with is difficult.


Again, the problem with the masses of today's Black women not being able to find quality men has less to do with what Black women are doing (or not doing) and MORE to do with the lack of availability of men who are of equal status. That is a reality that my latest article "Relationship Dilemma" addresses, and is a reality that apparently you and Brother Raheem are dismissing.

Frenchy asked the question (paraphrasing) "What is the point of having a "gameplan" when there aren't enough available players?" For example, I can go to church--an obviously nice place to find decent men--with a gameplan, but if men are scarce in the church, my gameplan is useless. But when I go into the county jails and detention units, the drug-infested street corners, the drug and counseling rehab facilities, and the local bars and liquor stores, in those environments, I will find Black men are plentiful! My "gameplan" would be useful in these environments, but what is the probability of any woman wanting to establish relationships with men in those situations, if she is smart? This is why, again, focusing our "gameplan" on African American women is a mistake, because compared to Black men, African American women are doing alright. So lets move on to the real issue. The gameplan should and definitely needs to focus on, first increasing the education, job skills, and job training of Black men so that they will be prepared to lead families and consequently become more attractive options for Black women. Having a mission is fine, but understanding why the mission is necessary in the first place is important.


sorry, i didn't notice that article, where did you post it? i don't mean to ignore it.

supply and demand is a classic issue with all resources, including people and skills. since there is a general agreement that there is a shortage of brothers to date and marry then we need to do two things. 1) we need to address the social issues that put black men in jail, and make them otherwise unavailable to black women. 2) single black women need to develop a PLAN on how they are going to seek out and find single black men. yes, there is a shortage. but, that just strengthens the need for us to be particularly shrewd and smart about the way we seek out men. we can work on assisting black men. this will certainly help the next generation of single black women. but again, that's not going to help the woman who is looking for a mate now.
. . . unless . . . you are suggesting that a woman takes the "diamond in the rough" approach. you've heard of it. find a man with a good heart, and POTENTIAL. then proceed to help him obtain what he needs to be a good mate. for instance, i have relatives who have helped their mates with finding financial assistance for their education, getting a good job and have helped them smooth out otherwise rough edges. i call it "raising your mate". however, the only problem with this is that when we raise someone, it is for the purpose of them being able to leave home and build a life for themselves. i think this is especially true of males. many a woman has "raised" a man only to find that the man no longer wants to be with them when he's "grown" and successful. however, it does work for some women.
Here's the thing I can't understand:

Why are there black men who are well-educated, employed, etc, etc. who are just as frustated at finding a suitable mate as a lot of women are?

I find myself in that situation. By the way, I'm writing this NOT to play some sort of blame game but because I'm honestly bewildered. I'm 34 years old, childless, with a Ph.D., a good job, desires a committed relationship with a black woman, never been in jail or addicted to drugs, etc., etc. and I haven't had a lot of luck.

I go on a lot of dates that, for whatever reasons, don't go anywhere.

Anyway, I'm just saying that while it may be true that women don't have as many choices as they should have it is EQUALLY true that some of us men (who fit the profile of the "good man" whatever that is) find ourselves (mysteriously) in a sea of single women who are 'relationship-proof'

I've literally gone out with women who seemed determined to find something wrong (Are you on the down low? etc.,etc.), weren't satisfied until they did, and then won't forgive you for having a fault.
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HonestBrother -

I've asked that same question - it went without answer. There has to be something wrong with you - It's never a fault or rough edge of a woman that's the issue (remember they're perfect)! Roll Eyes

See the mindset & comments - "raise a man". protest If you are going in to "parent & smooth rough edges", you have the wrong attitude. Partners are supposed to support each other (educational, finances, emotionally, physically). You think only women have been abandoned after their partners acquired success and/or self-esteem? Let a brother say he was smoothing a woman's "rough edges" - he'd be labled controlling in a heartbeat.

Clip your wings, indeed HonestBrother! ohsnap
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quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
HonestBrother -

I've asked that same question - it went without answer. There's has to be something wrong with you - It's never a fault or rough edge of a woman that's the issue (remember they're perfect)! Roll Eyes

See the mindset & comments - "raise a man". protest If you are going in to "parent & smooth rough edges", you have the wrong attitude. Partners are supposed to support each other (educational, finances, emotionally, physically). You think only women have been abandoned after their partners acquired success and/or self-esteem? Let a brother say he was smoothing a woman's "rough edges" - he'd be labled controlling in a heartbeat.

Clip your wings, indeed HonestBrother! ohsnap


i did not mean to be offensive, i was just sharing a point of view. and yes there are men on this site who say that women are too fat have too many children, etc. so dont say that no one talks about women as if there are "rough edges" which prevent them from finding a mate.

and incidentally, i think that men are less likely to be left by a successful partner than a woman. sure partners support each other, but to completely orchestrate the success of your partner . . .that's what i'm referring to. if you couldn't pick it up from that post, i'm not exactly in support of the idea of orchestrating your partner's success to the point where it feels like you had to birth and raise him.

if you bothered to read my posts before this,you'd know that i'm in support of this thread, for goodness sake, and in support of black women looking at the ways they can modify their dating habits. trying the same thing over and over with no success is a bad idea. noone is saying women are perfect. and guess what? neither are men. . .

it feels that noone is really willing to modify what they do. if a black man is having a hard time finding a suitable woman, well, that is a bit unusual to me. the numbers are in a black man's favor. and frankly i haven't heard black men complaining that they can't find a suitable mate. well, like raheem says, you need to consider your physical appearance and if it has something to do with the kind of women you attract. and maybe you need to consider some different strategies for finding the right woman. are you putting off a bad vibe? do you appear to controlling or too whiny? you should not expect the right woman to fall out of the sky any more than a woman should expect the right man to suddenly appear.

to hear this is kind of a relief because a)it means there is hope for single black women and b)there is a common ground that single black men and women share.

sometimes the way it's posted here, you'd think that men are in a constant playboy bunny party while women feel their child bearing years are being wasted.
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quote:
Originally posted by little minx:
if a black man is having a hard time finding a suitable woman, well, that is a bit unusual to me. the numbers are in a black man's favor.


Unusual? Why? But I do agree that you'd think the numbers would be in the man's favor.

I'm not claiming to be perfect. I'm not - no one is - but, based on my experience, you'd think statistically speaking I should at least luck up and have a so-so relationship with a sister that lasted awhile. But that's not the case. There seems to be so much pressure in the beginning to measure up, relationships - even ones that seem REALLY promising with tons of chemistry and commonality - just fizzle out within a few weeks (or a few months at best).

The really weird thing is that my experience dating outside the race is actually much better in terms of quality and length of relationships. I've found that while I prefer black women physically and have much more in common with them, relationships don't have staying power. But I've been in multi-year relationships dating outside the race.

Go figure.

quote:

sometimes the way it's posted here, you'd think that men are in a constant playboy bunny party while women feel their child bearing years are being wasted.


I've never been to a playboy party. Frown

PS: What does it mean to be "too whiny"? I find this to be another dating hell: women want a man who's

"Strong" but "humble" and "not to arrogant"

"not controlling or too macho" and "sensitive" but "not whiny" etcetera

I.e., when the list is done, you can't win.
i know what you mean about the frustrations of contradiction. men want a woman who is strong and soft. they want a skinny woman but then complain when a woman only orders a salad at dinner. they want a woman who lets a man lead, but then complain when she doesn't want to go dutch.

too whiny? well in my opinion that really refers to a man who presents as weak, alittle to effiminate(sp?), unable to make a decision,unable to commit, complaining about women and/or the relationship, failing to take responsibility for his life and actions, he lacks security and confidence in who he is and what he wants. it's unattractive because men are not socialized to be this way and a man who behaves this way appears to be deviant. and women are not socialized to want a man who behaves this way.

if your longest and best relationships have been with women who aren't black, then maybe you need to accept that you are a brother who will do better with a non black woman. i'm not sure what the reasons for that are, only you know. but if being with black women is this difficult you either need to leave them alone or do some introspection about the kind of black women you are choosing. also you did not answer the question about your physcial fitness. women have eyes to see as much as a man does. no offense, but just as a man does not want a fat chick, a woman doesn't want a fatty fatty boyfriend. (all you PC folks out there who get offended by that- lighten up.) if you are having a hard time perhaps you can adapt some of raheem's advice to suit your needs.

good luck
quote:
Brother Ddouble, I want you to just for a moment to think critically about the question you've just asked, and then answer this question. What woman in her right mind would want to have a litter of children and no father to support her? Let's not insult the intelligence of Black women, please.


It seems like we are mixing two topics - dating and rescuing the black family. So everyone has made some valid observations.

I'll be the first to admit that there is an issue with the black family; the black men need to do better as leaders in the community and home, but I have to take issue with this statement. As Frenchy likes to point, there needs to be more emphasis on what men need to do to correct the problems with dating and the black family but let's not put blinders on.

A lot of women want to sit hear and preach about the "problem with men" and how it a SERIOUS problem and an epidemic, but like we have said, this issue is a two sided one. These women feel they are correct in their statement because "they have had something happen so many times in their dating experience or so have their girlfriends etc". So there MUST be a major problem with men.

And as it was pointed out, what good does it do to have a "gameplan" and there are no players or decent ones.

Let's say tomorrow the pool of available, ready, will, and able men was full beyond any women's wildest dreams, as someone said who said the women are ready themselves.

I'm sure from MY experience and may other black man, we could formulate an idea that there is a MAJOR problem with women – mainly that they are emotional and spiritual train wrecks. And just because they are "doing alright or got it goin on" in their careers doesn't mean that they are ready for a serious commitment.

I to have heard a common theme among men about women – that they carry to much baggage into a relationship and take their frustrations out on every new man, they are so "protective" of their emotions that the tend to be cold and unapproachable, they have children by different men, have no goals or ambition outside finding a man to take care of them and deal with their baggage, they don't know how or are unwilling to let a man take the leadership role in their lives (I'm talking about when married), they are plain old gold diggers and are only looking to get paid, use sex as a weapon etc.

So yes there needs to be more emphasis on the problems that black men face but that doesn't lessen the issues that women need to deal with because they are SERIOUS also.
tfro
quote:
Originally posted by little minx:
also you did not answer the question about your physcial fitness. women have eyes to see as much as a man does. no offense, but just as a man does not want a fat chick, a woman doesn't want a fatty fatty boyfriend.


I was trying not to toot my own horn (I don't have problems getting a date - it's sustaining a relationship) but if you insist...most women tell me I'm really atractive - some might even say "pretty boy". I'm by no means at all fat. Athletic is probably a better description. Not slender but solid. Used to go to the gym 3 times a week (until about 2 months ago due to an injury).

I really don't think my physical appearance is the problem. Although a lot of 5'6" sisters want 6'+ brothers because "they like to wear those heels" and I'm only 5'9"

PS: thanks for clarifying "whiny" - I'm not that either

PSS: Even if I were butt ugly and obese you'd still think, on statistical grounds alone, I'd have better luck than I do.
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quote:
Originally posted by little minx:
Frenchy asked the question (paraphrasing) "What is the point of having a "gameplan" when there aren't enough available players?" For example, I can go to church--an obviously nice place to find decent men--with a gameplan, but if men are scarce in the church, my gameplan is useless. But when I go into the county jails and detention units, the drug-infested street corners, the drug and counseling rehab facilities, and the local bars and liquor stores, in those environments, I will find Black men are plentiful! My "gameplan" would be useful in these environments, but what is the probability of any woman wanting to establish relationships with men in those situations, if she is smart?


A NOTE ON THE GAMEPLAN

Here perhaps is my biggest difficulty with black women (coming from the Bible Belt). Us men are supposed to be either up in the church or in the prisons. Either Preachers or Prisoners.

But a lot of us professional and single brothers aren't in either of those places. We're living productive lives and we don't identify with the church. And so we're not there. But on the other hand there are alot of players and creeps (I personally know a few) going to the churches because that's where all the women are.

Much of my dating difficuly with black women has been due to my refusal to toe the "Bible believing" line on religion.

So as to the GAMEPLAN maybe it's necessary to also think outside the box and do something besides go to church or to the crackhouse?

PS: Not to disrespect anyone's religion, but you can quote verses about not being yoked to unbelievers all you want but I really don't think that the current state of black relationships is what God had in mind.

PSS: There are plenty of other verses which go completely unmentioned (like giving up all you have to follow Christ, etc., etc.)

PSSS: I'm also not in the bars, rehab centers, or liquor stores. I do Buddhist meditation. I love art and literature. I love movies. I have other hobbies too.
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
HonestBrother -

I've asked that same question - it went without answer. There has to be something wrong with you - It's never a fault or rough edge of a woman that's the issue (remember they're perfect)! Roll Eyes


Again, you're projecting and exaggerating. No one has said that. What I (and others) repeatedly raise is the lack of any attention on what men's responsibilities/shortcomings are. Everything is laid right at the foot of the woman. Over and over and over again. Women are made responsible for the Black man's piss poor behavior on top of everything else.

Can't find a date? Something must be wrong with you. You're bringing it on yourself.
No one wants to marry you? Something must be wrong with you. You're bringing it on yourself.
Boyfriend/husband treating you poorly? Something must be wrong with you. You're bringing it on yourself.
Etc.
And then the same old list of "wrongs" are trotted out. "ATTN: Women, You are too fat/strong/weak/poor/rich/accomplished/uneducated/opinionated/shallow/etc."

It's irritating and obnoxious and one has to be remaining purposefully ignorant not to see it. I don't EVER say the problem is ONLY with men. Only let's take a fucking break from clotheslining sistas and pay a little attention to the white elephant in the room.

I don't have any intention of raising up a mate. I don't date "potential." I date people that I am satisfied with for who they are right now.

quote:
Issues have been mixed - I only advocate that everyone engage in self-examination. Somehow, that sentiment is interpreted as dismissive, condescending, and anti-woman.

How can you say that, D, when you support threads and articles and sentiments that speak only to what is "wrong" with women?!? Please point out for me where you have discussed what men need to do, what men contribute to the situation, etc.
You're right - I haven't started any threads about what men do wrong in relationships. I don't have to because at least twice a week, a woman on AA.org does it for me! ohsnap Our (men) comments are so one-sided because we are usually countering the one-sided sentiment (which isn't in our favor!) of the thread poster. I do occasionally exaggerate (just like you do!!) - sometimes you have to throw some chum in the water to attract the fish.

Maybe we should all just have a big group hug!!!
eyes kiss eyes

or some beers & shots!! laugh
yeah appl
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:


The really weird thing is that my experience dating outside the race is actually much better in terms of quality and length of relationships. I've found that while I prefer black women physically and have much more in common with them, relationships don't have staying power. But I've been in multi-year relationships dating outside the race.

Go figure.



I was reading this thread, and your comments........and prior to reading this........i thought to myself, that YOU were going to say this.

I agree with 'Little Minx'.

Brothers have more options, and they KNOW this.

They exercise their options, and then complain, when things dont work out.

No need to complain..........men are single, because they want to be. They all run after the same type of women, gorgeous, tall, nice body, etc..........but then have issues later.

Yeah right!!
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
I agree with 'Little Minx'.

Brothers have more options, and they KNOW this.


First, you have exactly the SAME option that I have with regard to interracial dating. If you don't take advantage of it, that's YOUR choice.

Secondly, your response is precisely what the men on this thread are complaining about: We say something from OUR experience trying to engage ya'll in constructive conversation and then a sister comes along and says "Oh no! It's not really that way. Here's what it's really like" as if either 1) I was a liar or 2) didn't really know what I was talking about or as IF 3) YOU KNEW MORE ABOUT BEING A BLACK MAN THAN WE DO. And then you wonder why you're single...

quote:

No need to complain..........men are single, because they want to be. They all run after the same type of women, gorgeous, tall, nice body, etc..........but then have issues later.


1) I'm presently single and I don't want to be.

2) While it may be true that I could go out and "hook up", I don't want to to do that because I'm seeking a quality relationship.

3) In fact I've been celibate for almost 2 years now because I don't like cheap sex and I'm waiting for the right person TO MARRY.

4) How do you know what I go after? Maybe this is your low self-esteem speaking? Since you seem to be assuming that I dated interracialy because I was seeking someone "tall" and "gorgeous". Maybe I met a short plain Japanese woman because we're both into Buddhist meditation and our relationship was based in a common spirituality.

You don't know. Do you? And you'll never know just as long as you refuse to listen.

I repeat: discussion becomes impossible when people on the other side (i.e., black women) come to the table with their ears stopped up and more destructive stereotypes and half-assed notions about black men and what they really want than any Kluxer ever had.
Honestbrother......

Constructive? What was so constructive about that statement?

I dont have issues with IR dating.......if thats YOUR choice, then so be it. But my problem is this.........

Why bring the sistas into the equation, if its YOUR desire to date 'others'. Do so, without complaining about black women.

As a side note to you.........ALL WOMEN of all races, have issues........so you, like many others will complain until you die.

Im tired of black men complaining.......and then throwing the issue of dating 'other' races in our faces. Im 22 years old, and i've already seen enough....


Maybe this is your low self-esteem speaking?

lol Yeah ok!!!

Just do you, and leave the sistas alone........believe me, we'll survive.
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hij

Wow! This thread has really veered off !
laugh

Maybe we should just create one thread for this type of discussion? That way, we won't taint other people's topics - remember what we did to Sandye's thread (I'm still sorry about that! sad)?

One question qty226 - at 22, why are you looking for a long-term relationship? Do you think that casual dating would help you learn more about what you really want & need when you're ready to get married? Are the college guys really that bad? Why do you think you have trouble meeting someone suitable? With your academic commitments, can you really sustain a serious relationship? No hidden agenda or jabs - just curious.

P.S. Substitute 25 for 22 & job for college - but I'm curious to see Frenchy's answers to these questions too. I just imagine men knocking each other down to meet cuties like the two of you! eyes bow Big Grin
I apologize if I'm off-topic. I'll say one last thing and stop.

I NEVER expressed a desire to date "other". I'm only saying that I have done so in the past. I think it's a perfectly valid question that any conscious person should ask: "Why is my experience here different from my experience over there?" That's not an insult, or accusation, or expressing a desire. That's the first necessary step in the effort to learn.

I'm still holding out hope of meeting a sister - who I find much more attractive than other races by the way.

If I weren't, I wouldn't be wasting my breath here. Please read what I wrote rather than the stereotypes you're bringing to what I wrote.

Again, sorry for getting off topic.
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
hij

Wow! This thread has really veered off !
laugh

Maybe we should just create one thread for this type of discussion? That way, we won't taint other people's topics - remember what we did to Sandye's thread (I'm still sorry about that! sad)?

One question qty226 - at 22, why are you looking for a long-term relationship? Do you think that casual dating would help you learn more about what you really want & need when you're ready to get married? Are the college guys really that bad? Why do you think you have trouble meeting someone suitable? With your academic commitments, can you really sustain a serious relationship? No hidden agenda or jabs - just curious.



First, let me apologize for tainting this thread.....im sorry. Frown

To answer your question......

Its not usual for me to go days, and not see a black man on campus or in my neighborhood......so me meeting someone suitable is hard, because of my environment.

With that being said......I really dont think dating a ton of men, will help me decide what i want in a relationship. (Jumping from man to man......its just not in me to do.) Frown

Finding someone that is on the same page as myself.......a friend, willing to work at having a strong relationship, is what i desire. Truthfully, this takes time and effort......and a lot of men are not willing to deal with women, that are on this level. They love to exercise their options........and they have a right to do so. I just dont waste my time, dealing with these type of men.

Also.....lots of relationships are formed in college/grad school. If a man doesnt want to deal with my schedule and educational committment, while im in law school...then again, we are not on the same page.

Im not making excuses or blaming black men. I move on in life, but i dislike black men that have sooooooo many issues with black women.

It gets old!!!
We all got carried away & turned this into another Men vs. Women (or Women vs. Men for Frenchy Wink ) thread.

At any rate - I hear you. At 22, I wasn't interested in a serious relationship and a lot of women I knew weren't either. I think those are just today's standards - sounds like you may be a throwback to a generation or two earlier. I'd imagine you'd find some good guys at FAMU, but that is a few hours away. sad

I see so much pessimism on this board and it makes me nervous about our future. I'm generally optimistic about relationships, regardless of previous pains & wrongs (Yes, brothers get hurt too!), but that doesn't seem to be the general mindset here.

If we can't get along, who's going to birth & raise more beautiful Black babies? heart
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
You're right - I haven't started any threads about what men do wrong in relationships. I don't have to because at least twice a week, a woman on AA.org does it for me!


And yet, when you come into the thread you don't ever agree with said woman. Instead you launch into "That's just a myth!" "That's not true!" "Let me tell you what women need to do instead!" Confused

In any event, I don't give a rip about this anymore. I've said all I have to say. cool

hit (For old time's sake) hat
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
men are single, because they want to be.


?????? Although, the argument may be a little off topic... You are making ONE HUGE ASSUMPTION.... I hope all women do not think as you do.

I am single and would love to be in a good relationship with a good woman... but just because I am single doesn't mean I really want to be. If that is the case, everyone that is single (male or female), are single because they want to be since they can decide to enter a relationship or not.

quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
They all run after the same type of women, gorgeous, tall, nice body, etc..........but then have issues later.


Hmmmm ...check out some of the dating websites and you will see women have the same create the same standards... "must look good", "must be over 6'1""...to name a few.

QTY,

Everything is not a neverending party for men...trust me I know... because I am a man.
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P.S. Substitute 25 for 22


I'm only 24!! hit

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job for college


The job is temporary. I'm off to law school in August.

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why are you looking for a long-term relationship?


I'm not specifically looking for a long-term relationship. Just a quality mate.

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Do you think that casual dating would help you learn more about what you really want & need when you're ready to get married?


I have dating experience already, both casual and long-term. I think dating experience helps a little bit, but what I want and need change. I'm not someone who really goes through dating, adding pros and cons to a list that my future husband should conform to.

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Why do you think you have trouble meeting someone suitable?


The Million Dollar Question. I have my theories. Roll Eyes

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With your academic commitments, can you really sustain a serious relationship?

Once I was talking to my father about a boyfriend and how I had to be better about understanding that he was really busy and didn't always have time for me or time to do this or that, etc. My father said "People make time for what is important to them." The same way that I was rearranging my schedule to call him or email him or go and see him even if it was just for a little bit, is the same way he could've done the same for me. If the relationship is important, both people will make the time (and the decisions) to keep it going.
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sorry, i didn't notice that article, where did you post it? i don't mean to ignore it.


The article can be found in the Dating-Relationships-Sexuality forum. The article received many positive reviews. Both men and women readers seem to agree with the research documented in the article.

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1) we need to address the social issues that put black men in jail, and make them otherwise unavailable to black women. 2) single black women need to develop a PLAN on how they are going to seek out and find single black men.


Yes, I suppose I can agree to this. These are some good suggestions.
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Originally posted by qty226:
Finding someone that is on the same page as myself.......a friend, willing to work at having a strong relationship, is what i desire. Truthfully, this takes time and effort......and a lot of men are not willing to deal with women, that are on this level. They love to exercise their options........and they have a right to do so. I just dont waste my time, dealing with these type of men.

Also.....lots of relationships are formed in college/grad school. If a man doesnt want to deal with my schedule and educational committment, while im in law school...then again, we are not on the same page.


I believe you are doing things the right way. A man may like the woman and enjoy her friendship but desires a romantic RELATIONSHIP. I do not know what the numbers are, but there are women that understand this and will keep the guy in limbo, as he is hopeful that a relationship will develop. She may or may not have intentions of turning the platonic relationship into a romantic one. There are times that she just wants the friendship and nothing more...however she won't tell the guy because she may lose his attention. If she loses his attention, then it's always "He just wanted sex"...not always true.

If the guy likes her, he may become attached. This IS NOT healthy and it is called ONEITIS. It happens when a guy (this can happen to a woman as well) has eyes only for one person but this person does not want anything more than a friendship. What makes the situation worse is that she may not want anything but a friendship but is actively seeking a relationship with other guys. This is one of the reasons a guy may not be willing to stick with a woman and...although there are guys that like to play around, not every guy is exercising his options.

We can all continue to play the BLAME game but it is not going to solve anything. Every time I read "a lot of men/women this" and "a lot of men/women that." I shake my head and spell/type out the words "ridiculous" on my PDA.
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Originally posted by Frenchy:
If the relationship is important, both people will make the time (and the decisions) to keep it going.


Well said. There are cases where the man has to work around the woman's life because it is the woman with the busy schedule (work,school, etc). If the woman doesn't make time for him, it will be difficult to sustain a relationship.
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Originally posted by little minx:
if a black man is having a hard time finding a suitable woman, well, that is a bit unusual to me. the numbers are in a black man's favor. and frankly i haven't heard black men complaining that they can't find a suitable mate.


Wait a minute Sister Minx, you're suppose to be on their side! Smile
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These women feel they are correct in their statement because "they have had something happen so many times in their dating experience or so have their girlfriends etc".


It is a mistake to think that only people having problems finding love and romance should be concerned about this issue. Everyone from the school house teacher to the police officers on the street have acknowledged and complained about Black youth lacking stable and loving home environments. I've never been "played" or "dogged out" by a string of men. In fact, many of my relationships that I have enjoyed were satisfying learning experiences, yet I am still very much concerned about this issue, mainly because of the profession that I have chosen.

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I have heard a common theme among men about women – that they carry to much baggage into a relationship and take their frustrations out on every new man, they are so "protective" of their emotions that the tend to be cold and unapproachable, they have children by different men...


I was hoping this discussion would not lead to tit for tat responses. It is beginning to read as if some men are misinterpreting the responses made about the condition of Black men in general as personal attacks, when you all shouldn't. If you all know in your hearts that you are good men, and that you come from well-developed backgrounds, then you only need to offer solutions on how to improve the condition of other young Black males. Launching counter-attacks against the women is unnecessary. It also weakens the quality of the discussion. Brother Raheem has already acknowledged that the state of African American men in this country has deteriorated, so why can't our focus be on what can be done to improve it?
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Issues have been mixed - I only advocate that everyone engage in self-examination. Somehow, that sentiment is interpreted as dismissive, condescending, and anti-woman.


I reject Brother Raheem's insistence on making a distinction between Dating and Rescuing the Black Family, because when we talk about Black women, rather than just women in general, both subject areas become intimately related. Until we work towards doing what needs to be done to rescue the Black family, and more importantly Black children, we can expect the dating drama to remain constant, for the Black Family is the foundation on which everything (e.g., our education, relationships, and communities) rests.

Lastly, I am not opposed to Brother Raheem's providing women with practical dating tips, but many of the tips (and advice) given was written as if the author is either ignorant of or has decided to completely ignore the social and economic mismatch between the status of Black women and Black men. The author also encourages Black women to form sympathy relationships with Black men, but just a few paragraphs before giving this advice, the author advises Black women to "check themselves" to make sure they are "living up" to standards they expect in Black men. So evidently, we're getting mixed messages here. The author wants Black women to lower their expectations in one instance, but then raise them again in another. This not only confuses readers, it throws into question who exactly is this piece of advice serving? Women or Men?
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Originally posted by HonestBrother:
I was trying not to toot my own horn (I don't have problems getting a date - it's sustaining a relationship) but if you insist...most women tell me I'm really atractive - some might even say "pretty boy".


Brother Honestbrother, your situation is not representative of the norm. If you are indeed attractive, educated, honest, seeking a committed, long-term relationship (marriage) like you say are, then you only need to trust us when we tell you that, compared to Black women, you are in a much better position to find a mate than your Black female counterparts.
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Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Here perhaps is my biggest difficulty with black women (coming from the Bible Belt). Us men are supposed to be either up in the church or in the prisons. Either Preachers or Prisoners. But a lot of us professional and single brothers aren't in either of those places. We're living productive lives and we don't identify with the church. And so we're not there.


Brother Honestbrother, I realize that you are merely making a point, but just in case you were interested in knowing, I do not identify with the church either. In fact, I am vehemently opposed to the religious intolerance that is supported in traditional church environments. The church venue was only meant to be used as an example.
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Originally posted by ronin10:

I believe you are doing things the right way. A man may like the woman and enjoy her friendship but desires a romantic RELATIONSHIP. I do not know what the numbers are, but there are women that understand this and will keep the guy in limbo, as he is hopeful that a relationship will develop. She may or may not have intentions of turning the platonic relationship into a romantic one. There are times that she just wants the friendship and nothing more...however she won't tell the guy because she may lose his attention. If she loses his attention, then it's always "He just wanted sex"...not always true.


I agree with you. I've actually been in this situation.....i never said i was the brightest person on the planet, and im not making excuses..............but i just didnt know, that a certain guy was interested in a ROMANTIC relationship. He told me, (after i didnt figure it out) instead of showing me....... Confused I was not going to 'assume', that he liked me enough to take our friendship to that point.

It happens, and sometimes its just a lack of communication.

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