Farrakhan Urges Black Unity in Detroit

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Louis Farrakhan Black Unity Detroit photo

Louis Farrakhan

 

AFRICANGLOBE – Speaking to about 250 religious and community leaders in Detroit on Thursday, minister Louis Farrakhan urged unity among African Americans and called on them to buy up property in Detroit.

 

“We don’t have a lot of money,” Farrakhan said of African Americans. “But we have about 500,000 tos” 600,000 Black still in Detroit.

 

“If we would unite, we could choose what part of downtown we want,” he said. “Don’t let them drive you out of those homes.”

 

Farrakhan, a Muslim who heads the Nation of Islam, preached a conservative message of self-reliance and family values coupled with Black empowerment as he defended himself against charges he’s hateful and anti-Semitic.

 

Speaking at New Destiny Christian Fellowship Church in Detroit, Farrakhan urged Christian pastors to stay true to the teachings of the Bible and not compromise on such issues as gay marriage. He quoted frequently from the Bible and the teachings of Jesus as he told the crowd that Detroit can rebuild itself only if its people are grounded in good morals.

 

“We have to be a better example for the people. … As pastors, we got to come back to Christ,” Farrakhan said. “We got to get in line with him.”

 

“If Christ was your Lord,” you could “rise this city up,” he declared, drawing loud cheers from the crowd.

 

Farrakhan is in Detroit this week for the first time since 2007, when he addressed 50,000 at Ford Field. Since the Nation of Islam was started in Detroit, Farrakhan said he feels an obligation to help the city. He is to speak Friday before the Detroit City Council and at Fellowship Chapel, the Detroit church led by the head of the Detroit Branch of the NAACP.

 

While most of his talk was about religion, Farrakhan outlined an economic plan of having about 150 pastors “pool our resources” to purchase land and buildings. “You could buy all those rundown buildings.”

 

And then, “let’s go sell it and take some of that money and give it to the young people.”

He told the largely Christian crowd they shouldn’t be afraid to stand firm on moral issues and challenge power.

 

“Jesus wasn’t loved,” Farrakhan said. “He challenged Roman authority. … He was dealing with hypocrisy.”

 

And he told the pastors to focus on turning around lives and bringing people into the church.

 

Using the metaphor of fishing used in the Bible, Farrakhan said: “You’re not following Christ if you’re not fishing. … That’s the mission of the ministers of Christ.”

 

Farrakhan said there shouldn’t be division between Islam and Christianity.

 

“You can’t be a Muslim if you don’t believe in Jesus,” he said.

 

Farrakhan also urged Black pride, telling the African-American crowd: “You’re the people of God. … You’re the builders of civilization.”

 

One problem facing African Americans is that they’re often divided, he said.

“The envy is so heavy … backbiting, slander, gossip,” Farrakhan said.

 

Regarding claims that he is hateful, Farrakhan said: “Why do they say that Farrakhan is anti-Semitic? I’m 80 years old. I’ve never been arrested, not even for spitting on a sidewalk. … Is there a Jewish synagogue I’ve defaced?”

 

Religious leaders who attended praised Farrakhan’s message.

“We love Louis Farrakhan,” said David Hollyfield, a minister from Plymouth, in his benediction after Farrakhan’s talk.

 

The Rev. Horace Sheffield of New Destiny said in his introduction of Farrakhan: “They want to silence people who tell the truth.”

 

By: Niraj Warikoo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I'm just trying to make a way out of no way, for my people" -Modejeska Monteith Simpkins

 

AFRICAN AMERICA IS AT WAR

THERE IS A RACE WAR ON AFRICAN AMERICA

THERE IS A RACE WAR ON AFRICAN AMERICANS

THERE IS A RACE WAR ON BLACK PEOPLE IN AMERICA

AMERICA'S RACISTS HAVE INFILTRATED AMERICAN POLICE FORCES TO WAGE A RACE WAR AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE IN AMERICA

THE BLACK RACE IS AT WAR

FIRST WORLD WAR:  THE APPROXIMATELY 6,000 YEAR WORLD WAR ON AFRICA AND THE BLACK RACE

Original Post

  He really NEEDS to go and sit down somewhere and enjoy his golden years.  His views are OUTDATED.  Especially since most of blacks can read and question how can a man be devoted to the first master that enslaved his people.  I just don't understand either.  He's giving the version of the stereotype uncle Tom a new persona.    How about telling BLACK PEOPLE especially the youth to STOP killin each other?  That's one way to bring unity.  Before one can clean up on the outside....one needs to clean up inside.....first!  But!     

The problem that I have with this speech and his presence and frankly the Black NOI in Detroit is that they are now jumping in when that ship has sailed. Where were they when Dr. Claude Anderson was trying to purchase and establish an economic presence in Michigan to benefit African Americans? Unifying now when the city has been the victim of a hostile takeover by the state is no good.

Originally Posted by Yemaya:

The problem that I have with this speech and his presence and frankly the Black NOI in Detroit is that they are now jumping in when that ship has sailed. Where were they when Dr. Claude Anderson was trying to purchase and establish an economic presence in Michigan to benefit African Americans? Unifying now when the city has been the victim of a hostile takeover by the state is no good.

This doesn't make much sense.

 

The NOI was founded in Detroit and thus its presence cannot be described as now "coming in" when we are very much a part of the community.

 

Dr. Claude Anderson has had some good ideas, but to be honest his ideas are not nearly as thought out has he'd like to think they are, and his is not very welcoming to informed discussion on the matter (he's been challenged and corrected when he used to be a frequent guest on radio).  Economic development is an ongoing activity where ever people are living and particularly one where you cannot assume "as long as we do X, we'll have outcome Y".   Having said that, I have to point out that economic development has been and continues to be a staple of the NOI........long before Dr. Anderson wrote Powernomics. 

 

On the larger question of unity in the aftermath of a crisis.  That is a theme repeated throughout history and isn't limited to Black people.  Even in the midst of the industrial boom the Muhammad Speaks used to publish a cartoon with closed factories.....the point was (implicitly/explicitly) that we wont truly seek unity with each other until the circumstance of life force us to.

 

Detroit is in many ways the rude awakening that people who still fantasize that capitalist business structure (in any of its forms) will be a sufficient bedrock to begin solving our problems.  It wont.

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by Yemaya:

The problem that I have with this speech and his presence and frankly the Black NOI in Detroit is that they are now jumping in when that ship has sailed. Where were they when Dr. Claude Anderson was trying to purchase and establish an economic presence in Michigan to benefit African Americans? Unifying now when the city has been the victim of a hostile takeover by the state is no good.

This doesn't make much sense.

 

The NOI was founded in Detroit and thus its presence cannot be described as now "coming in" when we are very much a part of the community.

 

Dr. Claude Anderson has had some good ideas, but to be honest his ideas are not nearly as thought out has he'd like to think they are, and his is not very welcoming to informed discussion on the matter (he's been challenged and corrected when he used to be a frequent guest on radio).  Economic development is an ongoing activity where ever people are living and particularly one where you cannot assume "as long as we do X, we'll have outcome Y".   Having said that, I have to point out that economic development has been and continues to be a staple of the NOI........long before Dr. Anderson wrote Powernomics. 

 

On the larger question of unity in the aftermath of a crisis.  That is a theme repeated throughout history and isn't limited to Black people.  Even in the midst of the industrial boom the Muhammad Speaks used to publish a cartoon with closed factories.....the point was (implicitly/explicitly) that we wont truly seek unity with each other until the circumstance of life force us to.

 

Detroit is in many ways the rude awakening that people who still fantasize that capitalist business structure (in any of its forms) will be a sufficient bedrock to begin solving our problems.  It wont.

Yep it  makes perfect sense. Why Because it shows again that we are still operating in a reactive mindset vs. a proactive mindset.  This mess in Detroit has been brewing and discussed on AfricanAmerica.org for years. SMH

Okay .... well, I read - and re-read this THREE times just to be sure!!!  And all I ccan say is ....

 

HALLELUJAH!!!! 

 

And I hope SOMEBODY listens to him and is SMART enough to do EXACTLY what he is saying!!! 

 

If I had some money, I'd do it just because 1) he said it ... and 2) because it's the right thing to do!!  (All except that "give it to the young people" thingy!!    Nope ... the "young people" would have to EARN that money ...but they could do so by going to school, learning taking business courses, learning to be entrepreneurs, homeowners, whatever it takes to live in, run and take care of a NEIGHBORHOOD ... other than being drug dealers, thugs, criminals.

 

NOTHING BUT Black people need to be buying up Detroit!! 

 

Are we NOT learning our lesson from LOSING all of our generational history and culture to the White gentrification now happening in Harlem??    Yeah .... we get pissed off when White people "take over" OUR cities ... but, it's not like we're doing a DAMN THANG to take them over for ourselves!!  

 

I mean ... it's NOT LIKE (ENOUGH) BLACK PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY to save Detroit!!!  What we DON'T seem to have is the common sense ... the general intelligence ...  the financial comprehension of the benefits of pooling money .... nor the collective unity of anything about ourselves ..... to be able to SEE that what the Minister is saying is the absolute TRUTH!!!

 

One thing he does have right though .... is asking "preachers" to be the ones to put up the money!!  Lord knows they've bilked the good citizens of Detroit out of enough of theirs!!  If anybody has the resources .... it would definitely be them

Originally Posted by EbonyRose:

The real damn shame is that he would even need to be more specific than that. 

THLF has never represented himself to be an economist, lawyer, engineer, surgeon, etc etc.  What he (and others in their respective areas) argue is the reasonableness of Black people thinking and acting and building in ways that puts service to each other's needs first.  

 

There's a big difference between acting in ways that will enrich yourself, and acting in ways that will benefit the community (not as after thought).

 

Many embraced the fantasy that success could be found in corporate America.  Black liberation and Black struggles for justice where just "excuses" for not getting in the game etc.   Now that the illusion is over..........there's a willingness to entertain the idea of Black self governance on a community level. 

 

Which also speaks to Yemaya's point about being reactionary.  It would be great if everyone could be convinced through sound augmentation of the need, importance and value of doing what has been suggested.  Unfortunately it is VERY difficult if/when you are wrapped up in a type of social reasoning that dismisses the idea of self governance out of hand.

 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by EbonyRose:

The real damn shame is that he would even need to be more specific than that. 

THLF has never represented himself to be an economist, lawyer, engineer, surgeon, etc etc.  What he (and others in their respective areas) argue is the reasonableness of Black people thinking and acting and building in ways that puts service to each other's needs first.  

 

Unfortunately it is VERY difficult if/when you are wrapped up in a type of social reasoning that dismisses the idea of self governance out of hand.

 

A transnational supra-nation between North America, South Americ and Africa would make sense.  The Internet would be the base for necessary communication.  But being technologically literate would be a mandatory part of that.

 

I say trust palefaces to provide as much information as serves their purposes and make us pay for that.  

 

I say this stupid consumerism that the palefaces created is going to crash in this century and then we must wonder what global warming could do to Africa and South America.  We need a Black cadre of scientists which does not think whatever the palefaces tell them.

 

What do Black scientists say about 9/11?

 

Xum

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by EbonyRose:

The real damn shame is that he would even need to be more specific than that. 

THLF has never represented himself to be an economist, lawyer, engineer, surgeon, etc etc.  What he (and others in their respective areas) argue is the reasonableness of Black people thinking and acting and building in ways that puts service to each other's needs first.  

 

There's a big difference between acting in ways that will enrich yourself, and acting in ways that will benefit the community (not as after thought).

 

Many embraced the fantasy that success could be found in corporate America.  Black liberation and Black struggles for justice where just "excuses" for not getting in the game etc.   Now that the illusion is over..........there's a willingness to entertain the idea of Black self governance on a community level. 

 

Which also speaks to Yemaya's point about being reactionary.  It would be great if everyone could be convinced through sound augmentation of the need, importance and value of doing what has been suggested.  Unfortunately it is VERY difficult if/when you are wrapped up in a type of social reasoning that dismisses the idea of self governance out of hand.

 

As usual, M.C. ... I have no EARTHLY idea what what you said is supposed to mean ....

 

But let me be perfectly blunt/clear about what I meant by whatI said ....

 

In my opinion ... I think it's a DAMN SHAME that BLACK PEOPLE (would) NEED to be given an EXPLANATION as to what it means to .... or why it would/should/is necessary  ... to UNITE!! 

 

It's a simple, two-syllable, English-language word. 

 

And why BLACK PEOPLE can't/don't/won't "get it" .... is something WAY beyond pitiful and/or sad to me.

Originally Posted by Xumbrarchist:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by EbonyRose:

The real damn shame is that he would even need to be more specific than that. 

THLF has never represented himself to be an economist, lawyer, engineer, surgeon, etc etc.  What he (and others in their respective areas) argue is the reasonableness of Black people thinking and acting and building in ways that puts service to each other's needs first.  

 

Unfortunately it is VERY difficult if/when you are wrapped up in a type of social reasoning that dismisses the idea of self governance out of hand.

 

A transnational supra-nation between North America, South Americ and Africa would make sense.  The Internet would be the base for necessary communication.  But being technologically literate would be a mandatory part of that.

 

I say trust palefaces to provide as much information as serves their purposes and make us pay for that.  

 

I say this stupid consumerism that the palefaces created is going to crash in this century and then we must wonder what global warming could do to Africa and South America.  We need a Black cadre of scientists which does not think whatever the palefaces tell them.

 

What do Black scientists say about 9/11?

 

Xum

Did you see Q&A this weekend Xum? S. James Gates, Jr. was featured on the show. You may find that interesting.

Originally Posted by Yemaya:
Did you see Q&A this weekend Xum? S. James Gates, Jr. was featured on the show. You may find that interesting.

Didn't see it.  Looked over the transcript.

 

This is the issue right here:

GATES JR.: Most kids start off knowing they’re pretty smart. And the evidence of that – that we scientists often refer to is when you go into an elementary school at Grades 1, 2, 3, 4, as a scientist you start talking to kids about the world and telling them a lot of stuff. The enthusiasm, the engagement is just off scale. You do that same thing in say Grades 8 to 10, it’s very different. So something is happening in our educational process, to turn young people’s natural curiosity off.

I remember something happening to my thinking when I was in about 6th grade.  I noticed I began organizing a lot of things in terms of Black and White.  But when I seriously thought about it I noticed race did not really have anything to do with them.  There is no Black physics.  There is no White physics.  Physics is incapable of giving a damn about human beings.  When I noticed I was doing that I deliberately suppressed it.  I guess it is part of a psychological phase that all kids go through.

 

But what he is saying about kids is so true and race has little to do with it.  But Black kids tend to grow up in a more intellectually stultifying environments than White kids. However we now live in a more complicated environment than in the 60s.

 

I had been reading SF two years when I noticed my silly thinking.  I didn't look at my Black neighborhood the same way.  But not thinking like everyone else got me in trouble sometimes.

 

But how many Black kids have parents who are scientists or engineers or doctors?  So how do we create more intellectually stimulating environments for Black kids.  I say these tablet computers fit the bill but I also say the problem is White folks are not going to distribute good information about what to do with them.  They are just going to try to make money selling them

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1vZRR05VNs

 

Why don't they have a Recommended Reading List for White kids?  That makes no sense with all of this talk about education.  The class structure depends on keeping most people ignorant and thinking in the approved box.   We are just supposed to be more ignorant.  So what are WE going to do about it?

 

Xum

Originally Posted by EbonyRose:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by EbonyRose:

The real damn shame is that he would even need to be more specific than that. 

THLF has never represented himself to be an economist, lawyer, engineer, surgeon, etc etc.  What he (and others in their respective areas) argue is the reasonableness of Black people thinking and acting and building in ways that puts service to each other's needs first.  

 

There's a big difference between acting in ways that will enrich yourself, and acting in ways that will benefit the community (not as after thought).

 

Many embraced the fantasy that success could be found in corporate America.  Black liberation and Black struggles for justice where just "excuses" for not getting in the game etc.   Now that the illusion is over..........there's a willingness to entertain the idea of Black self governance on a community level. 

 

Which also speaks to Yemaya's point about being reactionary.  It would be great if everyone could be convinced through sound augmentation of the need, importance and value of doing what has been suggested.  Unfortunately it is VERY difficult if/when you are wrapped up in a type of social reasoning that dismisses the idea of self governance out of hand.

 

As usual, M.C. ... I have no EARTHLY idea what what you said is supposed to mean ....

 

But let me be perfectly blunt/clear about what I meant by whatI said ....

 

In my opinion ... I think it's a DAMN SHAME that BLACK PEOPLE (would) NEED to be given an EXPLANATION as to what it means to .... or why it would/should/is necessary  ... to UNITE!! 

 

It's a simple, two-syllable, English-language word. 

 

And why BLACK PEOPLE can't/don't/won't "get it" .... is something WAY beyond pitiful and/or sad to me.

Not trying to be cryptic, just trying to keep my comments pretty general an accurate.

 

To be blunt.....many black people do not give a sh*t anything unless there is either a direct benefit or direct threat to their daily life.   Living between those two ends are what most call a comfort zone.  

 

When that zone gets rocked (ie Yes its possible for you to make ALL the right decisions in life and still end up unemployed, shot by police etc etc).....THEN attention is payed to those who suggest alternative ways of living (business, schooling, governing etc).

 

How many times have have you heard"successful" Black professional proclaim that speaking out on injustice is "played out"?

 

Ever hear Black people use language like "if you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about?"

 

Or perhaps the other end of the spectrum "The problem is nigga's sh*t and never will be so they get whatever"

 

These are all types of neo-liberal thinking that suggest no matter how much a system is producing ill and undesirable effects........you are only to EVER blame yourself for the effect it (the system) produced!  If there's no obvious reason make some up!

 

From that perspective, the idea of unity (mixed with other forms of Black self hatred and mistrust) is a non starter.  Thus the case has to be continuously made.  For every person that agrees with the need for unity, there are those who've been made to think that its: unnecessary and/or impossible

"In my opinion ... I think it's a DAMN SHAME that BLACK PEOPLE (would) NEED to be given an EXPLANATION as to what it means to .... or why it would/should/is necessary  ... to UNITE!! "

 

***************************************************************************

This is so true and also what the problem is in the first place.

 

I just do not know what it is going to take for Black people to wake up, to stop living on D'Nile about the true position the Black race is in, not only in America, but worldwide.  When is the Black race going to wake up and realize that Black people are merely just being "tolerated" in any society, culture, group or race, and eventually on the entire planet?  Everything that is wrong with African America is only a microcosm of what is wrong with the Entire Black Race, with Africa, with any predominately Black city, or nation.  They flood African America with guns, African Americans use them to kill each other, they flood Africa with guns, bombs and weapons, they use them to kill each other.  Other races of people come into the African American community and make a living, get rich, put their children through school, build up their communities with African American dollars, other nations come into Africa and make a living, get rich and put their children through college and build up their nations with African natural resources.  Stumbling blocks are placed all over the playing field as far as African Americans are concern, stumbling blocks are place all over the playing field as far as Africa is concerned. 

 

 

 





Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
 

Not trying to be cryptic, just trying to keep my comments pretty general an accurate.

 

To be blunt.....many black people do not give a sh*t anything unless there is either a direct benefit or direct threat to their daily life.   Living between those two ends are what most call a comfort zone.  

 

When that zone gets rocked (ie Yes its possible for you to make ALL the right decisions in life and still end up unemployed, shot by police etc etc).....THEN attention is payed to those who suggest alternative ways of living (business, schooling, governing etc).

 

How many times have have you heard"successful" Black professional proclaim that speaking out on injustice is "played out"?

 

Ever hear Black people use language like "if you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about?"

 

Or perhaps the other end of the spectrum "The problem is nigga's sh*t and never will be so they get whatever"

 

These are all types of neo-liberal thinking that suggest no matter how much a system is producing ill and undesirable effects........you are only to EVER blame yourself for the effect it (the system) produced!  If there's no obvious reason make some up!

 

From that perspective, the idea of unity (mixed with other forms of Black self hatred and mistrust) is a non starter.  Thus the case has to be continuously made.  For every person that agrees with the need for unity, there are those who've been made to think that its: unnecessary and/or impossible


This assessment is correct as well, with the exception of "These are all types of neo-liberal thinking that suggest no matter how much a system is producing ill and undesirable effects........you are only to EVER blame yourself for the effect it (the system) produced!  If there's no obvious reason make some up!", in that is "conservative"/neo-conservative/fake conservative thinking, not Liberal thinking in any way. 

This assessment is correct as well, with the exception of "These are all types of neo-liberal thinking that suggest no matter how much a system is producing ill and undesirable effects........you are only to EVER blame yourself for the effect it (the system) produced!  If there's no obvious reason make some up!", in that is "conservative"/neo-conservative/fake conservative thinking, not Liberal thinking in any way.

Neo-liberal is another name for neo-conservative.  They are the same thing.  

 

Neo-conservative is a term somewhat unique to the U.S.  while elsewhere the ideology is known as Neo-liberalism (for some historical reasons having nothing to do with being progressive).

 

*I should also add, that the above is not exclusive to Black people by any means.  However, as in many other situations we're deeper in the ideological mess.

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

This assessment is correct as well, with the exception of "These are all types of neo-liberal thinking that suggest no matter how much a system is producing ill and undesirable effects........you are only to EVER blame yourself for the effect it (the system) produced!  If there's no obvious reason make some up!", in that is "conservative"/neo-conservative/fake conservative thinking, not Liberal thinking in any way.

Neo-liberal is another name for neo-conservative.  They are the same thing.  

 

Neo-conservative is a term somewhat unique to the U.S.  while elsewhere the ideology is known as Neo-liberalism (for some historical reasons having nothing to do with being progressive).

 

*I should also add, that the above is not exclusive to Black people by any means.  However, as in many other situations we're deeper in the ideological mess.


I follow your meaning now.

  Having all this so-called documentation i.e. bible is what has gotten blackfolks in trouble with themselves.  Because  in their minds they think that since it's in the bible that are ordained slaves.... it must be true without giving ANY consideration that massa had control over the printing of the sacred bible and have the POWER to put whatever the HELL he wanted in there.  And of course, he gonna put slavery in the bible to justify his cruelty of humankind against "heathen savages."  "You see it's okay that I enslaved you cuz it's written in the bible that says YOU are supposed to be my servant for life and I am supposed to civilize your kind."  And this is why........I DON'T believe a WORD massa says.    And when you do not have a culture growing up-not talking about self-made culture-you tend to BELIEVE what you hear from those who are CLEARLY more powerful than you.  And no matter what you think when you become an adult, that seed is already planted and grows inside developing into a particular mindset of low self-esteem.  So...even if you were given positive images of your culture in Africa....because your people have been brainwashed for hundreds of years here.....and thousands of years outside of "here" it's impossible to SEE the truth.  Especially when your OWN people by behavior says white is better, anything lighter in skin color is better, dark is bad, anything darker is worse.   And those darker thangs are YOU.

 

Cuz massa has taken something called phemonally[sp].....and made it believable to the conquered or enslaved one and has been lying about his made up heroism and fake history....every........since.   I would break it down even more but I am tired of wasting my brain cells about the same thang over and over.  But yall get my drift.  It starts with us at a very early age knowing the TRUTH about our history/hertiage: the good, bad and the ugly.  Until we can do this.....blackfolks down the line will NEVER have the ability to WAKE UP.  Newsflash!  Newsflash.  It is WE who are the sleeping GIANTS. 

 

And....as long as blackfolks continue to kill each other, degrade each other, sabbotage each other, play each other, pimp each other all the while listening to massa's bullshyte?  Blackfolks will never see the light.  And will NEVER understand that the white man has tried to eliminate Africans the same way they did the Native American.  They wanted to wipe us out in similars ways the Mayans were destroyed.  Folks think that the Mayan disappeared.  Hellllllllllllllll no.  Many of em  were wiped out by diseases brought over in the Americas by the Europeans.  The rest of em blended into the Hispanic population in the same manner of the Aztecs, Olmecs i.e. spaniards raped the ameriandians and children from that crime are now called Latinos, Hispanics[not born from Spain]. etc. And  so when it didn't work with us cuz even though they raped black females and produced bi-racial babies ....it didn't destroy our culture....cuz our "racial" genes and dna are much much much STRONGER.[than underdeveloped neanderthals]..and therefore we as a people survived.  When massa and his boys realized that they couldn't eradicate us through miscengenation[sp] they have been ponding, strategizing and  plotting us against each other every...........since.  But!

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