I voted yes. The current results says that is a minority vote.

I can't remember when the thought of my relationship to 'white' people was on my mind when I first wakened.

Anger is a consuming emotion.

This kind of anger is debilitating.

You should try to remember it can only hurt you, because those you are angry with neither know of your anger, nor care.

You are making a victim of yourself.

Charlie wins.

Again.

PEACE

Jim Chester
Tru dat James!

But when I wake up in the morning I am getting ready for work in which there are very few blacks.
I am in the midst of the white corporate world and see many actions and attitudes that could provoke many a black folk if they do not have their guard up. I am around very wealthy white people for this is an investment company and I am an Information Technology back office guy. I for one have done very well in this environment but I do have a mental regiment I have to rely on to make it so.
'...I do have a mental regiment I have to rely on to make it so.'---Momentum

I understand. I lived in a similar circumstance.

I perception of personal self-worth was never higher.

In fact, it was during that time that the experience of my grandchildren made me challenge what in the hell have I been doing' that would leave them vulnerable to such obvious idiocy.

I have never cared why they understand me.

I still maintain that such concern is an absolute waste of your resources.


PEACE

Jim Chester
I voted no. They don't know because they don't want to know. And they are scared of knowing.

I did the corporate thing for a while. As long as I could. Smile But the more I learned, the less I was able to tolerate it, and now, I have to find other methods of making money because it's just too hard for me to go that route!

But, get what you can out of it while it's there for the taking! Hang in there ... and remember, no causing bodily injury to one of them ... (even by accident!) Big Grin
I think close attention need to be paid to your question. You asked "Do white people understand why Black people are angry". This is quite different from if they know we are angry. So to answer the question you asked, do white people understand why we are angry, the answer is an empathically and resounding NO! They know we are angry but they associate our anger with other things like hatred for them for enslaving our ancestors, they fail to make the connection between our anger and modern day realities and current day condition of Black folk in America that can be traced directly back to institutional and structural racism.

White folk in general fail to understand Black anger and is really not interested in understanding it. Some of us don't even know why we are angry, we mistakenly associate that anger and blame the anger on our own culture, norms and mores. Our anger is so complex that several books are out explaining what makes us wanna holler!

I like you Momentum am an IT professional and work with white folk, solving their computer problems and so on, and I am certain you and I can trade war stories in regards to these corporate environments.
To the question: Do white people understand why blacks are still angry?

Oh they know... Intuitively they know and understand. But even knowledge and understanding are not enough on their own to make a person respond wisely. I say that because by not showing They Understand, via Social Change Evidence... White people only serve to increase Black folks "anger".

They know they would be angry. They know they would want revenge. That's why they are so keen and quick to project those things.

ANGER is a human emotion. And like everything else, it's the excesses that are unhealthy. Moderation makes even motivation by "anger" healthy. Something would be terribly wrong with us if we were not ANGRY. (But that's another NEGRO CON thesis waiting to happen... lol)

I've long since stopped attributing things to "IGNORANCE". It's time out for that as an excuse for White people. Like EBONY said:
They don't know because they don't want to know... [because] they are scared of knowing.

There is such a thing as WILLED IGNORANCE. They act dumb cause they want to be. Too many implications, ramifications... Consequences and Repurcussions.

This James Baldwin quote sums it up for me:
    [White People] are, in effect, still trapped in a history which they do not understand; and until they understand it, they cannot be released from it. They have had to believe for many years, and for innumerable reasons, that black men are inferior to white men. Many of them, indeed, know better, but, as you will discover, people find it very difficult to act on what they know. To act is to be committed, and to be committed is to be in danger. In this case, the danger, in the minds of most white Americans, is the loss of their identity.
White America's relationship with us "Black people" is one all geared around Anger Management. And by the looks of it, We Are Being Handled. We aren't mad enough... or rather not channeling and directing that "anger" in the right direction right back at them.

Now, tell me? When does a cheater ever wants to give up his scheme/advantage?
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
To the question: Do white people understand why blacks are still angry?

Oh they know... Intuitively they know and understand. But even knowledge and understanding are not enough on their own to make a person respond wisely. I say that because by not showing They Understand, via Social Change Evidence... White people only serve to increase Black folks "anger".

They know they would be angry. They know they would want revenge. That's why they are so keen and quick to project those things.

ANGER is a human emotion. And like everything else, it's the excesses that are unhealthy. Moderation makes even motivation by "anger" healthy. Something would be terribly wrong with us if we were not ANGRY. (But that's another NEGRO CON thesis waiting to happen... lol)

I've long since stopped attributing things to "IGNORANCE". It's time out for that as an excuse for White people. Like EBONY said:
They don't know because they don't want to know... [because] they are scared of knowing.

There is such a thing as WILLED IGNORANCE. They act dumb cause they want to be. Too many implications, ramifications... Consequences and Repurcussions.

This James Baldwin quote sums it up for me:
    [White People] are, in effect, still trapped in a history which they do not understand; and until they understand it, they cannot be released from it. They have had to believe for many years, and for innumerable reasons, that black men are inferior to white men. Many of them, indeed, know better, but, as you will discover, people find it very difficult to act on what they know. To act is to be committed, and to be committed is to be in danger. In this case, the danger, in the minds of most white Americans, is the loss of their identity.
White America's relationship with us "Black people" is one all geared around Anger Management. And by the looks of it, We Are Being Handled. We aren't mad enough... or rather not channeling and directing that "anger" in the right direction right back at them.

Now, tell me? When does a cheater ever wants to give up his scheme/advantage?


IMO, the poll question should've been "Do white people care why blacks are still angry?"
No they don't all understand and they can only try to understand. And it is the trying part that is important.
I can only speak for myself ok?
I am a white woman and I am trying to understand.
I didn't study history at school - I did art and geography - so I left school with a lot of history knowledge gaps.
Out in the wider world, meeting lots of different people, I still had limited knowledge of Australian indigenous rights and - not living in America - and hardly any historical knowledge of African American civil rights except for the odd TV documentary.

For me it was a personal connection that made me seek out some knowledge of both - not an easy task here with limited african american history books available and almost no contemporary black literature here.

On a personal level, I paid a high price for my ignorance and lack of 'dialog' - I lost what I had considered a close female friendship, albeit an online one. There were faults on both sides, but I learnt a valuable lesson... to learn more and listen more. Also, my boo is African-American so I have found it vital to become more knowledgable about his history... to try to understand where he is at and why he is where he's at.

So I've been reading up and trying to educate myself to at least begin to understand. It's been a long, interesting journey and I will never understand totally because I am white, but I am trying to fill in those knowledge gaps to help me create meaningful dialog with people I meet both online and face to face. In some ways it's a unique journey, because I can see the issues that get in the way of real communication between different cultures and it's frustrating. But it's about wanting to wade through the minefield and share experiences, share stories, and hopefully connect on a real level... on a personal level, not just 'politically correct' dialog. Which is what I hope to do with people of all cultures I meet on this planet.

So yes, I can see why blacks are so angry, but I can also see that anger is an energy, but it's power needs to be directed in a positive way to implement change - positive change. Sure, easier said than done, but necessary.
Some of us don't even know why we are angry,---Faheem

So yes, I can see why blacks are so angry, but I can also see that anger is an energy, but it's power needs to be directed in a positive way to implement change - positive change. Sure, easier said than done, but necessary.---art_gurl

These are interesting perspectives of the same issue.

The first is that of an African American-American male (my presumption) saying, in part, that African Americans don't know why we are angry.

I can find a lot agreement with that. I believe much of our anger is out of frustration with an undefined force. And 'force' is the key word here.

There is an active something in our lives which acts against us daily. It drives us in our decision-making both regarding ourselves and others.

It would seem that if that 'active something' could just be turned in our favor balance/normality would come into our lives.

The second is a European-Australian female saying she can see the reason for the anger without identifying the reason. She goes on, however, to conclude without knowing the reason for the anger, that the anger is what is important, and turning energy into a positive force should be the goal.

The assessment of the anger seems to be key in both analyses.

Assessment of the anger is self-examination.

Every time we come to grips with this 'thing' that binds us we end up standing gazing into the mirror.

It would seem the answer lies with us.

I really hate to be boring, but...

You know my answer.

Ancestral nationality.

It doesn't change.


PEACE

Jim Chester
I was just putting forward a personal view.
As far as stating why I believe black people are angry... I thought it would be presumptuous of me to contribute a list of reasons. Perhaps these two words are a start: injustice and inequality.

Anger on it's own rarely achieves anything worthwhile long term. But anger can be a powerful driving force to initiate action, if directed toward a positive goal. Anger can also be used as an 'excuse' for inaction.
Awareness is a more potent state. Awareness of one's history, modern and ancient, of one's community, family and self. Awareness leads to questioning things, and questioning can lead to knowledge. And with knowledge comes responsibility. Responsibility to one's community, family and self.

There will never be peace if there is only anger. And I believe there will never be progress without knowledge and committment. And sadly, there will always be division between people, without inidividual (as well as universal) committment to real conversation and a willingness to connect.
Okay, art_gurl, but lemme ask you this ... Smile

How much of a factor do you believe guilt -- not wanting to experience it or fear of having to experience it -- plays in the White population's aversion to engaging in the kind of dialogue to be able to know/understand our anger?

What I find is that so many Whites just don't want to talk about it! And it may be different for you in Sydney (although Black folk in America and the indigenous people of Australia have a lot in common! Smile) but, here, although they are willing to acknowledge the evils of slavery (which is where "it" all starts) they are not willing to go much farther (i.e., the social ills that were created and still exist today as a result of that slavery. So, they prefer that it end with the acknowledgement (and whatever apology goes with it) ... and thus, the necessary conversation to deeper understanding is rarely had.

But I think that when an acknowledgement of something is made, the responsibility of dealing with it is what comes next. And when it's something that was a bad thing, guilty is a powerful emotion to have to deal with. And it inhibits. And I'm wondering if you think that perhaps that's why we can't get to the next step in healing and uniting and conversing.

That being said, all Black people don't hate all White people for the things that have transpired in the past. As was stated earlier in the thread, I believe that we're not even angry about what they think we're angry about and if they really knew why we're angry and what we're angry about, a definitive level of understanding could be reached.

But there's a block somewhere. Perhaps you could tell me what you think it might be? Confused
Faheem, it is truly a revelation on how some of the white upper crust of society process their thoughts. I find it amazing how some of them got as far as they did really dumb people can't figure to most elementary things on a computer. Their success is not certainly by the talents they have but how they are overly compensated for the bit they do, almost anyone can do their jobs. Yeah I got many stories to tell.
quote:
Originally posted by Momentum:
Faheem, it is truly a revelation on how some of the white upper crust of society process their thoughts. I find it amazing how some of them got as far as they did really dumb people can't figure to most elementary things on a computer. Their success is not certainly by the talents they have but how they are overly compensated for the bit they do, almost anyone can do their jobs. Yeah I got many stories to tell.


For the first 25 years of my professional career I spent 22 supervising others.

They were 99.99% European American. They were everything from filing clerks to Ph.D's. and J.D's.

They never became adjusted to me being the 'final voice' in the room, but only when others like them were in the room with them, and strangers.

I always wish there was some way I could share the knowledge that comes with such exposure.

There isn't.

But the benefit can be 'passed on' through the decisions made from that point on.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Okay, art_gurl, but lemme ask you this ... Smile

How much of a factor do you believe guilt -- not wanting to experience it or fear of having to experience it -- plays in the White population's aversion to engaging in the kind of dialogue to be able to know/understand our anger?

What I find is that so many Whites just don't want to talk about it! And it may be different for you in Sydney (although Black folk in America and the indigenous people of Australia have a lot in common! Smile) but, here, although they are willing to acknowledge the evils of slavery (which is where "it" all starts) they are not willing to go much farther (i.e., the social ills that were created and still exist today as a result of that slavery. So, they prefer that it end with the acknowledgement (and whatever apology goes with it) ... and thus, the necessary conversation to deeper understanding is rarely had.

But I think that when an acknowledgement of something is made, the responsibility of dealing with it is what comes next. And when it's something that was a bad thing, guilty is a powerful emotion to have to deal with. And it inhibits. And I'm wondering if you think that perhaps that's why we can't get to the next step in healing and uniting and conversing.

That being said, all Black people don't hate all White people for the things that have transpired in the past. As was stated earlier in the thread, I believe that we're not even angry about what they think we're angry about and if they really knew why we're angry and what we're angry about, a definitive level of understanding could be reached.

But there's a block somewhere. Perhaps you could tell me what you think it might be? Confused


Hi gurl... I'm back! I am so impressed with the integrity of this thread that I will respond tomorrow. Why? So where have I been? In hiding? Well...no... I've been out of town and juggling lots of (good) stuff... off at a course.... and believe it or not I have taken a lot of this discussion 'with' me. It's nearly midnight and I'm back from a long drive but I will check in tomorrow, ok?
Much respect from me for your having the 'space' to discuss and connect. That is WHAT it is all about. So it is only fitting I put some real time into posting a response. And I am grateful for the dialogue. Guilt? Wow... that's a massive one. From every angle. Guilt is a cancer. Connection is the key. But that sounds trite, so let me check in tomorrow after a little more sleep and a strong coffee. Ok?
I am fine until I have to come to work.

Yes, work is the test of how well you can fake it. I keep telling myself, when things get bad, this job is not my life but it pay the mortgage. You see, these "white folks" can take you there!

Its a fact that the work place has improved for women and minorities but there still exist a high level of "intentional discrimination" for us.
quote:
Its a fact that the work place has improved for women and minorities but there still exist a high level of "intentional discrimination" for us.
---Diamond

You are right.

The work place is the one place European Americans get to implement, or watch the implementation of the system intended, or actually, represses African American-Americans.

In spite of Affirmative Action, the work place is still the primary bastion of denial.

If you really want to see a reaction, place a laim of copyright on your written work.

Whoa!!!!!!!!1

I love it.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Okay, art_gurl, but lemme ask you this ... Smile


OK... I will try to do your post justice. It is such a huge and hugely important topic. Smile

ER: What I find is that so many Whites just don't want to talk about it! And it may be different for you in Sydney (although Black folk in America and the indigenous people of Australia have a lot in common! Smile) but, here, although they are willing to acknowledge the evils of slavery (which is where "it" all starts) they are not willing to go much farther (i.e., the social ills that were created and still exist today as a result of that slavery. So, they prefer that it end with the acknowledgement (and whatever apology goes with it) ... and thus, the necessary conversation to deeper understanding is rarely had.

- - - - - - - -

First off, thanks for the opportunity to share some dialog on this. I hope you won't mind me responding to your post a bit out of your original sequence. You must also understand that I am on this site to learn and ask questions and expand my knowledge. If I can have a clearer historic and contemporary cultural understanding then hopefully I can articulate what I know to other ˜white' people in an intelligent way.

[I'd simply like to see peace between all types of people and I haven't given up hope that it's achievable – but only if each of us as individuals truly wants it and is prepared to live it. Peace holds a lot of power.]

- - - - - - - -

ER: But there's a block somewhere. Perhaps you could tell me what you think it might be? Confused

- - - - - - - -

OK... these are some of the reasons I can identify that limits (what I agree is absolutely necessary) those conversations. I can only speak for myself, and from my limited knowledge, and my own ˜journey' of discovery of African American history. As you rightly point out, these issues (excluding the African Diaspora) are equally revelant to indigenous Australians. However, because this is an African American forum, I have chosen to respond accordingly. Please realise my dialog on this website is a work in progress... the more I learn the more I can contribute. So patience please for my knowledge gaps and lack of understanding in some areas ok?

~ Finding the right of language to have an objective discussion.
~ Willing participants (black and white) speaking with a truthfull voice, to have the dialog with.
~ Trust and sincerity to enable discussion. It takes a true generosity of spirit for people to discuss repugnant issues with clarity and objectivity.
~ Me/us asking the right questions in the first place, and receiving objective and truthful answers.
~ Ignorance due to lack of historical knowledge – for a variety of reasons including but not limited to historical censorship.
~ (sadly) Ignorance due to disinterest.

- - - - - - - -

ER: all Black people don't hate all White people for the things that have transpired in the past. As was stated earlier in the thread, I believe that we're not even angry about what they think we're angry about and if they really knew why we're angry and what we're angry about, a definitive level of understanding could be reached.

- - - - - - - -

I totally agree with you here. A level of understanding DOES need to be reached.

I don't know what African history is taught in the USA – and I imagine it would depend on which level of education (primary, secondary, or tertiary) its complexity. I didn't go to University (although I regretted the decision), I chose not too mainly because I was honest enough with myself to know that at that stage of my life I would never knuckle down and study. My secondary education had NO history whatsoever. My only exposure to it was in primary schooling, and it was (in the early 1960s) from a very limited, very British, colonial viewpoint.

I only tell you this to explain my total lack of historical knowledge and context until my adult years, motivated by a personal desire to travel and understand different cultures. And everyone who travels, socialises, and has a personal connection with other cultures... the only way to truly begin to understand an individual's contemporary sensibilities is to know something about their history and ancestry. Mostly that is driven by curiousity and the desire to get to know someone you have a close association with. A neighbour, workmate, flat mate, companion, lover, friend etc. beyond a superficial level.

I didn't know African American history, or even much about its contemporary culture. Besides personal friendships, I also begin to ask questions or become curious about another culture through its art and music. That is what is so wonderful and essential about artistic expression and celebration.

So, having met several African American friends who live in America via the internet it was relevant and necessary to me to start to find out about their culture.

I had limited knowledge of the period of slavery, and no knowledge of what came before, so I was totally ignorant on that score. However, reading and asking questions helped to learn what other questions to ask, and to delve into the golden age pre-colonialism, before slavery. I began to find out what terms like Nubian meant. The cultural impact and importance of Egypt. I began to learn more about the Ancient World. Voodoo. The African Diaspora. Tanzania and Haiti's history. Yes, that is just skimming the surface – I know I have so much more to read and learn and absorb to begin to understand things in context.
And the more I read and learn about black history, the more I feel horror and disgust, regret, sadness and compassion for past (and current) injustices, cruelties and abuses of freedom and liberty. I feel sorry and impotence that I cannot ˜make amends' or reverse what happened, and I cannot – as a white human being – truly feel your pain. Because I can't walk in your shoes.

What I can do it to communicate and hear what you and other African Americans have to say about themselves, their live, their culture and their history. And in my life's journey try on a one-to-one individual level to treat everyone I meet with compassion, and respect. To have dialog. To believe peace is achievable. To ask questions. And hear the answers. In other words, live the communication. Give it truth, growth, connection, understanding, and trust.

I am trying to speak from my own voice, not a history book, so apologies in advance if the following wording sounds clumsy.

For me, the most insidious repercussion, from a history of both overt, and ˜invisible' institutionalized racism; the era of slavery; the denial of historical the institutionalised censorship of black history, (and it's positive achievements), and the lack of true equal opportunity; is the residual mental slavery of self hate and lack of hope, self-esteem, sense of betrayal, and a struggle for inner peace.

- - - - - - - -

ER: How much of a factor do you believe guilt -- not wanting to experience it or fear of having to experience it -- plays in the White population's aversion to engaging in the kind of dialogue to be able to know/understand our anger?

But I think that when an acknowledgement of something is made, the responsibility of dealing with it is what comes next. And when it's something that was a bad thing, guilty is a powerful emotion to have to deal with. And it inhibits. And I'm wondering if you think that perhaps that's why we can't get to the next step in healing and uniting and conversing.

- - - - - - - -

I'd like to spend a bit more thought into this question, than I have time for today. I will give this my fullest attention AND try to edit down my the word count. Deal? Smile Smile
It's okay art_gurl ... take your time! Smile You're doing great so far!

You are absolutely correct about some of the reasons why there continues to be an insurmountable invisible wall. It's definitely not just about merely about communication ... but the who's talking and what's being said and how is probably about 75% of the exchange.

Having an open mind is what is going to get you to a higher level of understanding. Those who are able to "walk in somebody else's shoes" whether literally or figuratively speaking have the ability to look at things from a whole other view. And understanding our experience is not an easy undertaking. Not even for some of us.

There's a lot of us Black folk who have as much of an idea of our history and circumstance as you had before you started this quest! Eek Some people don't want to know. Others know, but find it more beneficial to think it irrelevant. Still others were never taught anything about who they are and where they come from, and because it does not pertain to daily life today, don't have any type of desire to learn for themselves.

Growing up, my house was like some kind of mini-United Nations, it seems. Due to my mom and sister's free spirit personalities, I grew up sitting, talking, eating with, partying with and otherwise getting to know people who did not look like me, but were every bit a human being as I was ... just a little different maybe. And we all learned to appreciate each other .. our similarities and our differences. And I really didn't understand prejudice until very later on in life on a family trip to Texas.

I believe if Black and White people looked at each other from a more human standpoint, a lot misunderstanding would could dissolve quite easily ... and then getting the real issues could be a lot easier, and a lot less painful.

But serious internal conflicts on both sides prohibit that at this point. We'll probably have to wait for God to work one of those miracles to really get it all straighted out! Smile

Anyway, I'll await further dialouge with you. And as I said, take your time and don't be leary about expressing your opinions. I look forward to discussing and learning from you just as much as you hope to learn from us. Smile
Thanks for listening and responding Ebony Rose.
I did say I would try to keep it short... hmmm... I will try to work on that. Big Grin

- - - - - -

Although the language is a tad academic, I think this quite nicely states the obvious:
"In order to successfully communicate cross-culturally, knowledge and understanding of cultural factors such as values, attitudes, beliefs and behaviours should be acquired. Because culture is a powerful force that strongly influences communcation behaviour, culture and communication are inseparably linked".

As you say there are many factors inhibiting communiction among any group of people.

Thanks for more time re the guilt thing... I've been wondering if it would be a bit one-dimensional to give just my viewpoint. Maybe I should ask some of the people over here their thoughts on this??

- - - - - -

OK, just to go back to the anger thing for a moment. I need to say that there is anger on the white side as well. Anger that previous white generations have created such an ugly ancestory for us. And frustration. I guess for me the word is disconnection - disconnection from understanding (on any level) the kind of mentality that could even conceive of slavery in the first place, let alone condone it on any level. Then I realise that there still is slavery in the current world. I don't know if I can reconcile this as some kind of shared state of consciousness, when in my heart I feel it will always come down to an individual's choice how to behave. Yes, white people have been conned as well. I think a lot of white people feel betrayed. Educated to confuse discovery with domination. Taught a history hijacked by censorship and propaganda. When I was little I only ever associated the word propaganda with the first and second world war. My ignorance as a little girl might make you feel angry but imagine how angry I feel as I learn the truth? Eek

- - - - - -

Point of view. Everyone has one and each one is truly unique.

Humans seem to have a predisposition to 'acquire' one and hold onto it for dear life. Unless some event or person challenges and changes that perception. Some people don't want challenge or change.

Friends and I were discussing the film Crash. My girlfriend hasn't seen it yet, and commented that someone told her they considered it "trite". Trite? I thought about that. And the fact that most films are edited down to a simple message, and a simple sequence to get their message (if there is one, lol) across clearly, in a small space of time, and usually required to speak to a wide-ranging audience. But being familiar with the 'concepts' and 'living them' is totally different.

If Crash did repeat its message over and over, then it was probably because the film wasn't made to 'preach to the converted' but to spell it out to people (probably mostly white) for whom this was new territory. It's been interesting to hear some of comments made here about white American audience reactions. There do seem to be different sensibilites been Australian and American audiences but that's a work-in-progress, lol. Wink

One of the ideas I've been coming to grips with lately is beginnings and endings. That goals can be achieved, but not necessarily have in a linear order.

Without the constraints of an end date, and a judging process, either of two things can happen. Whatever it is never ends - or never gets finished.

Looking at today's concept of time. For example, websites or forums are constantly in flux... they never reach an end point. A thread may fizzle out, but a year later someone might add to it.

I find this quite an empowering philosophy, because it takes away the anxiety and pressure to a achieve a final singular outcome, and allows achievement - no matter how small - on a daily, or ongoing basis.

I see this as perhaps a more powerful way to chip away at what seem monumental and at times overwhelming issues. Issues like poverty, the environment, racism, freedom of speech, equality in the workplace, etc. In other words, the value is in what people are DOING (present tense), not what they have done or intend to do.
That way, life is a moment-by-moment choice... you never arrive and unpack. And things don't have to make sense all at once.

Someone said to me recently that 'people' always try to make sense of suffering. Maybe there is no sense, no reason?? None of us can change the past, but we can all choose to acknowledge it, be shocked by it, even nourished by it, made aware by it, but not enslaved by it... instead CHOOSE to create a new future and consciousness. Choose is a very powerful word.

I think it really is a hard journey for each and every one of us. Some of us have had more heartache, mistreatment and misfortune than others, but the best revenge on adversity is to respect who you are and excel at being the person you are. Everyone has the choice to believe in themself. Then the journey truly begins.

Hope springs internal (not eternal).

And if that sounds trite, well then that's just too bad. ;^)
More later.
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:

There will never be peace if there is only anger...

...[I'd simply like to see peace between all types of people and I haven't given up hope that it's achievable – but only if each of us as individuals truly wants it and is prepared to live it. Peace holds a lot of power.]...



Everyone is crying out for peace, yes
none is crying out for justice
Everyone is crying out for peace, yes
none is crying out for justice

I don't want no peace
I need equal rights and justice

- Peter Tosh, lyrics to the song EQUAL RIGHTS


Until oppresssion, exploitation, colonialism, neo-colonialism, cultural, physical, economic, and social imperialism, land theft/occupation, and resource rape ends/stops/is stopped. It is an insult to the victims of these things(the majority of human kind) to call for peace.

If you can't tell, I'm one of the angry folk.

I think Malcolm X was right.

"You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom."

"There can be no black-white unity until there is first some black unity.... We cannot think of uniting with others, until after we have first united among ourselves. We cannot think of being acceptable to others until we have first proven acceptable to ourselves."

"Who ever heard of angry revolutionists all harmonizing 'We shall overcome ... Suum Day...' while tripping and swaying along arm-in-arm with the very people they were supposed to be angrily revolting against ? Who ever heard of angry revolutionists swinging their bare feet together with their oppressor in lily-pad park pools, with gospels and guitars and 'I have a dream' speeches? And the black masses in America(AND the world) were--and still are--having a nightmare."

"Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change."

"I might point out here that colonialism or imperialism, as the slave system of the West is called, is not something that is just confined to England or France or the United States. The interests in this country are in cahoots with the interests in France and the interests in Britain. It's one huge complex or combine, and it creates what's known not as the American power structure or the French power structure, but an international power structure. This international power structure is used to suppress the masses of dark-skinned people all over the world and exploit them of their natural resources."

"I think that an objective analysis of events that are taking place on this earth today points towards some type of ultimate showdown. You can call it political showdown, or even a showdown between the economic systems that exist on this earth which almost boil down along racial lines. I do believe that there will be a clash between East and West. I believe that there will ultimately be a clash between the oppressed and those that do the oppressing. I believe that there will be a clash between those who want freedom, justice and equality for everyone and those who want to continue the systems of exploitation."

"I would like to point something out so that we'll understand each other better. I don't want you to think in the statements I made that I'm being disrespectful towards you as white people. I'm being frank. And I think that my statements will give you a better insight on the mind of a black man than most statements you get from most people who call themselves Negroes, who usually tell you what they want you to hear with the hope...that will make them draw closer to you and create a better possibility of getting from you some of the crumbs that you might let fall from your table. Well, I'm not looking for crumbs so I'm not trying to delude you."

"I may say, though, that I don't think it should ever be put upon a black man, I don't think the burden to defend any position should ever be put upon the black man, because it is the white man collectively who has shown that he is hostile toward integration and toward intermarriage and toward those other strides toward oneness. So as a black man, and especially as a black American, any stand that I formerly took, I don't think that I have to defend it because it's still a reaction to the society, and it's a reaction that was produced by the society; and I think that it is the society that produced this that should be attacked, not the reaction that develops among the people who are the victims of that negative society."
Anger, as I see it, is a very powerful emotion, that if not realized, can and will consume you. Having said that, I answer the question with a resounding YES.

For many years white folks have been pushing, prodding and provoking us into explosive fits of anger - and then using it against us. The LA riots would be a good example... for years brothers and sisters have been speaking out against police brutality, but that was not a nationwide story... Rodney King got the crap beat out of him on national TV & the conventional wisdom was "...he must have done something...". When the cops who did it got off and LA exploded, suddenly it was "why are they so angry???" The connection between the years of ignored brutality and the riots was not made.

Do white people understand why Blacks are still angry?

I say yes... more than ever - and in some cases better than we do...
I've tried to respect the integrity of this discussion, because I think is getting something good done.

Clear honest discussion without 'taking shots' at the/a person.

For a 'short shot'

I think there is a lot to EbonyRose's contemplation that maybe/sometimes we as African American-Americans may not be sure what we are angry about.

Anger finds different ways to express itself in different people.

Sometimes it is personal anger.

Sometimes it is generational anger.

I do not think it is important that European Aaericans, or Europeans of any subsequent citizenship 'understand'.

I further think that is good for any such person who wants to understand. And...any person of any description who wants to help.

There is zero onus on African American to help the European system.

Give-and-take discussion is good for those who can maintain it.

This discussion is good.

PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:

There will never be peace if there is only anger...

...[I'd simply like to see peace between all types of people and I haven't given up hope that it's achievable – but only if each of us as individuals truly wants it and is prepared to live it. Peace holds a lot of power.]...



Everyone is crying out for peace, yes
none is crying out for justice
Everyone is crying out for peace, yes
none is crying out for justice

I don't want no peace
I need equal rights and justice

- Peter Tosh, lyrics to the song EQUAL RIGHTS


Until oppresssion, exploitation, colonialism, neo-colonialism, cultural, physical, economic, and social imperialism, land theft/occupation, and resource rape ends/stops/is stopped. It is an insult to the victims of these things(the majority of human kind) to call for peace.

If you can't tell, I'm one of the angry folk.

I think Malcolm X was right.

"You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom."

"There can be no black-white unity until there is first some black unity.... We cannot think of uniting with others, until after we have first united among ourselves. We cannot think of being acceptable to others until we have first proven acceptable to ourselves."

"Who ever heard of angry revolutionists all harmonizing 'We shall overcome ... Suum Day...' while tripping and swaying along arm-in-arm with the very people they were supposed to be angrily revolting against ? Who ever heard of angry revolutionists swinging their bare feet together with their oppressor in lily-pad park pools, with gospels and guitars and 'I have a dream' speeches? And the black masses in America(AND the world) were--and still are--having a nightmare."

"Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change."

"I might point out here that colonialism or imperialism, as the slave system of the West is called, is not something that is just confined to England or France or the United States. The interests in this country are in cahoots with the interests in France and the interests in Britain. It's one huge complex or combine, and it creates what's known not as the American power structure or the French power structure, but an international power structure. This international power structure is used to suppress the masses of dark-skinned people all over the world and exploit them of their natural resources."

"I think that an objective analysis of events that are taking place on this earth today points towards some type of ultimate showdown. You can call it political showdown, or even a showdown between the economic systems that exist on this earth which almost boil down along racial lines. I do believe that there will be a clash between East and West. I believe that there will ultimately be a clash between the oppressed and those that do the oppressing. I believe that there will be a clash between those who want freedom, justice and equality for everyone and those who want to continue the systems of exploitation."

"I would like to point something out so that we'll understand each other better. I don't want you to think in the statements I made that I'm being disrespectful towards you as white people. I'm being frank. And I think that my statements will give you a better insight on the mind of a black man than most statements you get from most people who call themselves Negroes, who usually tell you what they want you to hear with the hope...that will make them draw closer to you and create a better possibility of getting from you some of the crumbs that you might let fall from your table. Well, I'm not looking for crumbs so I'm not trying to delude you."


Thanks for your contribution. Smile Good to hear some more voices.

- - - - -

there is always an excuse not to have peace isn't there?

- - - - -

Just some thoughts on peace...

Why are humans so angry with peace? Has it let us down? OR have we let it down?

It's a dynamic, now state that never sits still... it can disappear in a second... whereas anger can lay around in the subconscious lounge forever... always ready to make a appearance on cue. A commitment to self-peace (and empowerment) demands we do some furniture removal inside our heads every now again. That can be uncomfortable, challenging, full of anxiety, exhausting.

ukutula....pax, paix, paco, amani.... peace.
Peace. Such a simple word. In any language. Simple but not simplistic. Simple is never easy.
Peace is not surrender, it is an empowerer.

Because peace is a dynamic state. A moment by moment choice in your life. Rage is easier to justify to oneself than peace.

I am talking about inner peace. There can never be world peace without each individual striving for inner peace.

Inner peace IS part of world peace.

One human being at a time.

Words only have power through the meaning we give them and our actions.

Which words truly have more power for sustainable change and possibilities?
Anger or awareness, rage or love, hate or peace, negativity or nourishment, reactive or responsive?

It depends on your viewpoint and your vision.
It depends on your own experiences.
But most of all it depends on your own choices.
Whether we believe we are a mere grain of sand, or a grain of sand that in time can become a pearl. Pearls are created through friction not complacency.


You are absolutely correct that the focus should be on equal opportunities in all areas, justice, freedom of choice, and human rights.

So where does each of us start? Blinded by tears of rage, or with our eyes fully open and a clear vision?
Conscious of the past, what can each of us do now, in the present, that will create a future?
Because the future really does rely on now...
btw: for anyone who equates my concept of inner peace as naive, powerless, patronising, or irrelevant... Big Grin

There are two truths (human commonalities) that are best not to learn the hard way - by living them.

Consider your anger. Feel it. Own it. But don't let it own you. Or it can get in the way and dis-empower you, not empower you.

Where there is no inner peace, there is no room for love to grow inside you.
And truly, if you have no love to give, you will never totally be able to receive love given freely to you.

If you truly want to 'rip yourself off' try cheating yourself out of those two things.

Doesn't each of us truly deserve love and empowerment?

OK, that's enough from me for one day...lol Smile

Bump! 

 

You think white people feel we should be still angry and indignant today? Are we more or less angry than back in 2005?

I just find it very interesting what AA.org said back in 2005 and I wonder how would some of these same people would respond today?

Add Reply

Likes (0)
Post
×
×
×
×