quote:
Originally posted by Dell Gines:
Ebony, we are only at the opposite side on Imus because you are wrong Wink

20

Only for you, sweetie! kiss

But let me tell you why I am right! Smile

Because in addition to your point of needing to develop our community at the grassroots level ... we also need to stop the disrespect of Black women and the thug/gangster representation of our Black men through the entertainment industry. In addition to building our economic and political bases, we also need to build our self-respect and present to ourselves and the world a more dignified persona if we are to be taken seriously. And there's no reason we can't do both at the same time!

See ... middle ground ... if you're willing to meet me halfway. Smile
This is where me and many disagree Ebony. I don't have a problem with individuals criticizing Imus, nor attempting to get him fired. However I think we have our priorities misplaced.

First of all I believe in Marcus Garvey, and he would be rolling in his grave if he saw our modern day approach to race elevation.

His whole philosophy (and he had the greatest grassroots movement of black folks in the history of America) was that respect is granted based upon production and then it can be demanded.

Do I like individuals disrespecting black folk and women? Of course not. Do I have a problem with Imus getting fired because of advertisers pulling out. Not at all.

What I have a problem with is our misplaced and inefficient prioritization as black folks. We have been operating under this model, which I call the hollow neo-civil rights model for the past 20 years and it has been demonstrated as ineffective. Yet we applaud and are so happy when one white racist zombie doesn't get to make us feel bad about ourself any more, and I can walk two blocks down the street and see young brothers banging, most likely to be in jail or dead and I think, does getting him fired really matter in real talk? No. Not at all.

So that it occured I have not a problem with, that it occurred and caused us to expend so much emotional and psychological energy, I have a problem with.

I am a Christian. Jesus did bomb the Romans for being racist, he simply went to the streets and elevated his people.
quote:
Originally posted by Dell Gines:
. . . and I can walk two blocks down the street and see young brothers banging, most likely to be in jail or dead and I think, does getting him fired really matter in real talk?


Is this the only consideration that is important to African America? Does everything that occurs within our community have to be judged against this exceedingly narrow criteria? 15
Once again, Dell is trying to fill the rhetoric void CF left.


IF that's the standard, not a single damn one of us should... can post another word on a message board, forum, blog. When you want to get ridiculous: Does going on vacation really matter? Our people are suffering, how can we ever take time off?

I mean, seriously... Signify with some sense.


.
quote:
Originally posted by Dell Gines:
His whole philosophy (and he had the greatest grassroots movement of black folks in the history of America) was that respect is granted based upon production and then it can be demanded.

Well, before respect is granted or demanded it's got to be self-indulged. You're not going to elevate those brothers or sisters out of the street if you don't teach them self-respect first ... that is, respect for their communities, for their families, for their wives/women, themselves, and those you're intending to help them uplift!! That's #1.

#2 - as a Black man, I expect you to respect me as the Black woman that I am. However, if you don't, I'm certainly not going to listen to you say anything to me. Why? Because I have enough respect for myself not to be disrespected by you. You can't expect the kind of mentality that it takes to organize your people and get them to where they need to go to come out of a generation that believes themselves to be or allows themselves to be called n***as, bi****s and hos. That's why it seems to me that you are putting the cart before the horse ... because it seems to me you need to fix your people and then have them fix their problems.

quote:
What I have a problem with is our misplaced and inefficient prioritization as black folks. We have been operating under this model, which I call the hollow neo-civil rights model for the past 20 years and it has been demonstrated as ineffective. Yet we applaud and are so happy when one white racist zombie doesn't get to make us feel bad about ourself any more


Actually, Dell, where I disagree with you as to Imus being "irrelevant" or "insignificant" is that I am not applauding Imus' getting fired ... to that degree, you're right ... who gives a damn about Imus? Confused BUT ... what I (and I've got lots of company) are applauding is that it took this "insignificant" little racist worm to open a frank and honest and very much needed dialog both within and without the Black community to try to do something about the problem of the image of black women being depicted as sex-crazed, gold-digging hos being sold by white record company execs to to the masses and our young Black men .. "artists" nonetheless Confused disrespecting themselves with the images they are portraying to be sold the same.

Yes, it took some broke-up old crazy white man to get the attention that we as Black people need to deal with. That's a shame. But that's the reality.

quote:
So that it occured I have not a problem with, that it occurred and caused us to expend so much emotional and psychological energy, I have a problem with.


It is the media that is holding him up as some kind of symbol of something ... but not us. This incident has made us moved on to what is important ... a discussion within the Black community. If that kind of energy is being directed within, regardless of which one of our problems it's aimed at, it can only be a positive, regardless of the catalyst.
quote:
Actually, Dell, where I disagree with you as to Imus being "irrelevant" or "insignificant" is that I am not applauding Imus' getting fired ... to that degree, you're right ... who gives a damn about Imus? BUT ... what I (and I've got lots of company) are applauding is that it took this "insignificant" little racist worm to open a frank and honest and very much needed dialog both within and without the Black community to try to do something about the problem of the image of black women being depicted as sex-crazed, gold-digging hos being sold by white record company execs to to the masses and our young Black men .. "artists" nonetheless disrespecting themselves with the images they are portraying to be sold the same.



Ebony, I would merely offer that Imus, what he symbolized economically/politically, AND the process that led to his ouster

are not insignificant to black americans attempting to access equal opportunity...
Nmaaginate do you feel the need for an opponent to attack obnoxiously? If so choose someone else. I feel you are starting to troll me and I don't like it.

To the rest of you I am creating a new thread cuzz I don't want to be a hijacker.
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I don't mind debate at all.

What I do mind is when people act like the lack of mass appeal of their views (when people truly understand what their views are but still reject them) or lack of philosophical/factual integrity of their ideology is the fault of some covert, obiquitous mass conspiracy against them. Especially when their views are hardly revolutionary which would cause some kind of conspiratorial silencing.
First the forum must decide what the forums focus is. Is it a Pro Black forum? Black Nationalist? or forum with Blacks on it.
It also depends on what one considers a Black conservative. A true conservative seeks to build and retain the character and values of his institutions and culture. So I say yes I personally am a conservative in the same way that Veireck was for White American patrician culture. I am a Black conservative in the sense I don't wish to our culture further diluted in the name of assimulation or multiculturism, I wish to conserve whats left and re-root it. The literati and talking heads have bastardized and politicized the term to mean republican or someone on the far right, which unfortunately most people have accepted and how it is being used on this forum and by most people.
In regards to the question posed; is diversity on the forum important? I say not really if one continually seeks out information to better his understanding about whatever topic they are interested in. One is responsible to read theories contradictory to his in order to solidify his views or disprove and modify its errant parts. It is an integral part of growth.
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:

First the forum must decide what the forums focus is. Is it a Pro Black forum? Black Nationalist? or forum with Blacks on it.


Yes. All that and more. Anything Intelligent. Black. & Community! tfro
Given your propensity here to stifle dissent, perhaps a change in the name of this website would serve that cause. Can't presume its africanamerica anymore since some are not to be included. Rename it to 'some-of-africanamerica', or 'my-africanamerica', or 'beingblack-according-to-me', etc.

This way, you at least get out in the open that you believe we 'should' all think alike for the most part, and that only some variety of expression is desired.
I think what lures in the conservatives is that they are in fact african-american, but come here to find out they aren't african-american at all, ie, they do not possess the proper papers, accreditation, or tatoos, whatever.

You could start a topic and solicit new, blacker, names for the website.
leftist-africanamerica.org ? all others needn't apply.

If you actually look with neutral glasses at what gets posted "at" the few conservatives who come here, you'll see that obnoxious, mean, and hostile are defined right here by many of your 'less variety' type black folk. You yourself mbm typically treat them with some maturity and respect, and I applaud you for that.
First of all I want to thank you for the excellent name choice of this website. AfricanAmerica.org speaks truth to power and gives honor to our African ancestors. Someone has to be brave enough to stand tall and love themselves and their people enough and do the right thing.

For that, I honor you!
quote:
Given your propensity here to stifle dissent, ...


I have yet to see dissent "stifled". I have seen it "challenged", "tested" and "examined".

On the other hand, I have seen baseless, [factually/logically] unsupportable contrarian rhetoric stifled, as it should be.

Many of those whining about being stifled are simply unable to defend their positions against a critical eye.

I also have noted that those that whine about being stifled are white folks [white-like] that come here to tell us how we [Black folk] should act/feel/believe and what we should be doing/feeling/supporting.

So no, Cano, the name [and/or monicker] of the site does not need to be changed; only the expectations of white [white-like] whiners.
quote:
Given your propensity here to stifle dissent, ...



quote:
Kweli4Real wrote: I have yet to see dissent "stifled". I have seen it "challenged", "tested" and "examined".

On the other hand, I have seen baseless, [factually/logically] unsupportable contrarian rhetoric stifled, as it should be.

Many of those whining about being stifled are simply unable to defend their positions against a critical eye.

I also have noted that those that whine about being stifled are white folks [white-like] that come here to tell us how we [Black folk] should act/feel/believe and what we should be doing/feeling/supporting.

So no, Cano, the name [and/or monicker] of the site does not need to be changed; only the expectations of white [white-like] whiners.


Well said. appl appl appl appl
Thanks Kweli, glad you've butted in.

You couldn't have made MY point any clearer.

I stayed on topic, you chose to attack me in a personal way, yet without providing any examples of my crimes.

And that, my narrowly viewed african-american friends, is the norm for this site. MBM asks a very legitimate question here, is dissent or variety actually desired by anyone here. We know Kweli ain't having it, .. and apparently she knows all.

Its ok, but at least know and say thats the case.
quote:
Originally posted by Cano:
Thanks Kweli, glad you've butted in.

You couldn't have made MY point any clearer.

I stayed on topic, you chose to attack me in a personal way, yet without providing any examples of my crimes.

And that, my narrowly viewed african-american friends, is the norm for this site. MBM asks a very legitimate question here, is dissent or variety actually desired by anyone here. We know Kweli ain't having it, .. and apparently she knows all.

Its ok, but at least know and say thats the case.


bs

Butted In??? I did not realize that this was a conversation, exclusive of ... well ... me.

Cano, if you took what I said as a personal attack ... well ... That is/was my observation of who whines about being "stifled". At any rate, I noticed in your whining, you completely ignored what I said; rather, you chose to see a personal attack.

So, Cano ... are you white or white-like? Because clearly you think the shoe fits.

quote:
MBM asks a very legitimate question here, is dissent or variety actually desired by anyone here.


I agree, and here was my response:

quote:
I have yet to see dissent "stifled". I have seen it "challenged", "tested" and "examined".

On the other hand, I have seen baseless, [factually/logically] unsupportable contrarian rhetoric stifled, as it should be.

Many of those whining about being stifled are simply unable to defend their positions against a critical eye.


And, here was my response before that:

quote:
IMHO, dissent is healthy ... No, heathy reasoned dissent is healthy.

If you disagree with something I've written, fine. Challenge it. But do so with relevent facts and a reasoned argument [respectfully, show me the error of my thoughts]... Don't build a strawman, don't add words to what I've said, don't take something that I've written 2 years ago and compare, don't go dumb acting like plain english ain't plain english, and really don't switch subjects and act like you've switched because you've dispatched my argument.

We all can learn something from everyone; but it starts with accepting that we don't know it all.


Lastly, Kweli is male.
quote:
IMHO, dissent is healthy ... No, heathy reasoned dissent is healthy.

If you disagree with something I've written, fine. Challenge it. But do so with relevent facts and a reasoned argument [respectfully, show me the error of my thoughts]... Don't build a strawman, don't add words to what I've said, don't take something that I've written 2 years ago and compare, don't go dumb acting like plain english ain't plain english, and really don't switch subjects and act like you've switched because you've dispatched my argument.

We all can learn something from everyone; but it starts with accepting that we don't know it all.




***not following this is where some go and disrespect the intelligence of others...if I tell somone a car is very fast and they rebut that statement with "well it only gets 19 miles to the gallon"...then they should be stifled and excommunicated from the whole damn conversation....because taking one's preferences for a topic as the basis for trying to establish credibility for their stance is just plain stupid.....
quote:
if I tell somone a car is very fast and they rebut that statement with "well it only gets 19 miles to the gallon"...


Or better, them asking you to define fast, then they proceed to tell you that the car isn't fast because somewhere in a lab somewhere, scientists have plans for a car that they suspect will go faster. Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by Cano:
Given your propensity here to stifle dissent, perhaps a change in the name of this website would serve that cause. Can't presume its africanamerica anymore since some are not to be included. Rename it to 'some-of-africanamerica', or 'my-africanamerica', or 'beingblack-according-to-me', etc.


Where's a "Don't Feed The Trolls" smilie when you need one??!!?? Confused
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by Cano:
Given your propensity here to stifle dissent, perhaps a change in the name of this website would serve that cause. Can't presume its africanamerica anymore since some are not to be included. Rename it to 'some-of-africanamerica', or 'my-africanamerica', or 'beingblack-according-to-me', etc.


Where's a "Don't Feed The Trolls" smilie when you need one??!!?? Confused


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