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Our individualism has made us completely insensitive to slights that collectively affect us....

A white man degrades black women and just a few black men speak out.....

Then a brother gets on national TV and seconds the crackers notion that kinky haired black women are ugly....


On message boards brothers attack sisters who agree that our image should not be attacked in such a manner... especially in this context and by our own brethren.... but what do they care? its funny and THAT's what's important.. for them freedom of speech is more important than honor... oh.. but first you'd have to see WORTH in your women before you could understand how to HONOR them...


the loser... CONSTANTLY is the image of the BANTU (NOT "REFINED" featured) Black woman....



lawd..
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:

If your clients or employers had access to your postings here, protested and called for your job because they deemed them offensive, would that be acceptable to you?[/b]



I am not a comedian
I am not an actor
I am not on television
I'm not being asked about my opinion on a national show
I am not paid for public performance

therefore any repeated references to my employment/profession are unparallel and invalid.

Just what is it you do, Double?


Bogus! Responsibility for correct action (whatever that means for you) has zero to do with status or media access. I don't have issue with your critique, just what I perceive to be an underlying double standard.

Are you less of a Black woman if you hold an opinion that many (there's that word again!) brothers find degrading? At AA.org, that logic could easily apply to some of you ladies that post here.

Every post you make here is available to the public - this is a media source.

And please stop playing the victim just because someone disagrees with you on a message board. It just cheapens any argument you put forward. td6
Stop the Crap

Hughley makes the argument that he cracks jokes on people of many races, but I'm sure he knows that jokes about a Black person, particularly, a Black person's physical features, has ties to Black people's history in this country. In other words, a joke about a White person's features is not the same as a joke about a Black person's features. And the truth is, many Black comedians take advantage of what I like to call the "race advantage."

Black comedians will use their race advantage whenever they want to refer to themselves as "niggas" and "black bitches," knowing that because they are Black, they will get away with doing it. Afterall, who is going reprimand someone for simply making fun of themselves? Right? Fortunately, there is a growing segment in the Black community that is raising their standards as well as their consciousness, and they are demanding respect from everyone. Essentially, they are saying that we don't give a damn WHO it is or WHAT race to which the person belongs. Calling Black people "niggas" and/or "ugly bitches" is unacceptable, PERIOD. And personally, I am a member of that burgeoning segment, and I believe the rights of "free speeach" (a common scapegoat/excuse for inappropriate behavior) should not replace human decency. And I will extend my argument by saying that if you want to act a fool and embarress yourself in front of millions of people, then that's on you, but don't embarress, diserepect, or humiliate the rest of us.

It all boils down to this: Black people are going to have to raise their consciousness about what's going on in this society (YOU ARE BEING OPPRESSED) and they are going to have to be conscious of how they are representing themselves and the race to which they belong, especially in the public. You don't ever hear people belonging to other racial groups disrepecting their women in public and acting like this. This is disgraceful.
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This is not the first time, DL has called black women ugly.....or joked about our hair, clothes etc.

Usually these women, have paid their money to see his 'act', and they know that this is something he jokes about. They laugh and find him funny.

So i cant say that he doesnt 'get' it.........i think he should realize, that there is a time and place.

This wasnt the time or the place.
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
This is not the first time, DL has called black women ugly.....or joked about our hair, clothes etc.

Usually these women, have paid their money to see his 'act', and they know that this is something he jokes about. They laugh and find him funny.

So i cant say that he doesnt 'get' it.........i think he should realize, that there is a time and place.

This wasnt the time or the place.


DL is ignorant, period. And he's just saying dumb things that he know will get people to laugh. He's a comedien, and that's what he gets paid to do: to make people laugh. But unfortunately, like so many of our community's commercial rappers, the most well-paid Black comedians aren't the ones who are African-centered or "conscious." The most well-paid Black comediens are the comediens who are acting like straight up bafoons in public and clowns their own people on a dime so that Whites can laugh at us (Oops, I meant "with us" [yeah right]) in the audience. They the ones who make all the money and get all the media's attention. This proves that this society is at a embarressingly low conscious level in terms of what most people in this country find "funny" and "entertaining."
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Free speech is a moot issue here. Respect for blackness is. DL Hughley gave the white man a big ole greasy black thumbs up to disparage black women on public airwaves...




Basically. Also, you have to look at individual assessments of what is community, in particular, 'the Black Community'. What are its problems, concerns, issues, etc. Then, what is relevant to strengthening the 'Black Community'. In light of the history of America, the Black Community has been under seige, since the 1600's. In light of the Imus'/mess, that debacle, was a continuation of the verbal and psychological attack and harrassment of Black Americans. If you feel that you are a part of whatever working definition, you have of 'Black' and 'community', you could possible understand that co-signing, with racists, is counterproductive. Does Hugley, feel that he is a part of 'the Black Community', the entertainment community, or as someone mentioned, 'the made it' community. I think that would perhaps shed some light on why there is difference of opinion on how Hugley felt, and how 'negrospiritual'[me included] feels about the Hugley comment.
quote:
Originally posted by nayo:
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Free speech is a moot issue here. Respect for blackness is. DL Hughley gave the white man a big ole greasy black thumbs up to disparage black women on public airwaves...




Basically. Also, you have to look at individual assessments of what is community, in particular, 'the Black Community'. What are its problems, concerns, issues, etc. Then, what is relevant to strengthening the 'Black Community'. In light of the history of America, the Black Community has been under seige, since the 1600's. In light of the Imus'/mess, that debacle, was a continuation of the verbal and psychological attack and harrassment of Black Americans. If you feel that you are a part of whatever working definition, you have of 'Black' and 'community', you could possible understand that co-signing, with racists, is counterproductive. Does Hugley, feel that he is a part of 'the Black Community', the entertainment community, or as someone mentioned, 'the made it' community. I think that would perhaps shed some light on why there is difference of opinion on how Hugley felt, and how 'negrospiritual'[me included] feels about the Hugley comment.


The part I bolded from your quote:

Does this rule apply all the time? Is it specific to status, income, level of media access or gender? This was the double standard I alluded to earlier. There are posts on this board that co-sign what racists say. Some of those posts come from members of the community that consider themselves to be conscious and simply telling the truth.

Can you reconcile this difference or am I imagining a disparity in response & treatment? 19
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
quote:
Originally posted by nayo:
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Free speech is a moot issue here. Respect for blackness is. DL Hughley gave the white man a big ole greasy black thumbs up to disparage black women on public airwaves...




Basically. Also, you have to look at individual assessments of what is community, in particular, 'the Black Community'. What are its problems, concerns, issues, etc. Then, what is relevant to strengthening the 'Black Community'. In light of the history of America, the Black Community has been under seige, since the 1600's. In light of the Imus'/mess, that debacle, was a continuation of the verbal and psychological attack and harrassment of Black Americans. If you feel that you are a part of whatever working definition, you have of 'Black' and 'community', you could possible understand that co-signing, with racists, is counterproductive. Does Hugley, feel that he is a part of 'the Black Community', the entertainment community, or as someone mentioned, 'the made it' community. I think that would perhaps shed some light on why there is difference of opinion on how Hugley felt, and how 'negrospiritual'[me included] feels about the Hugley comment.


The part I bolded from your quote:

Does this rule apply all the time? Is it specific to status, income, level of media access or gender? This was the double standard I alluded to earlier. There are posts on this board that co-sign what racists say. Some of those posts come from members of the community that consider themselves to be conscious and simply telling the truth.

Can you reconcile this difference or am I imagining a disparity in response & treatment? 19




I'm not going to reconcile anything. Hughley obviously does[did] not feel any allegiance to the 'Black Community', as regards this incident. Of course there are disparity's in how individuals feel about situations in the Black community. This past March, I attended a conference at Oxford University, where we were asked to present papers of Diversity in the United States. I presented a paper on race and 'uncertainty avoidance'; there were many interesting presentations on additional topics such as race and persuasion, the education gap, symbiotics, and so on. One young Black man, presented his paper on the 'Aunt Jemimah' position of Condoleeza Rice, complete with cartoon likenesses of Dr. Rice as a mammy figure. I was appalled, as this was a powerpoint presentation, and the imagary was horrific. Many folk were outraged, horrified and disgusted that he would take this opportunity to disparage this woman at this conference; others, mostly Black males, applauded him for his 'courage', provocativeness, and willingness to demonstrate his First Amendment privilege. Was it his right to disparage Rice, of course, but, I felt he did a great dis-service, as he, in my opinion, signalled to all present that it was ok to insult, disparage and make ridicule of a 'powerful' Black woman. I do'nt agree with Rice', public policy, and would state it in no uncertain terms, but, the manner in which this was done is the critical point, and applies to the Hughley comment--using racist ideology to devalue Black women to the public. Why couldl'nt this young man at the Oxford conference simply presented his argument in another fashion? Why could'nt Hughley simply have stated that he did not find them attractive, and leave it at that?


I abhor O.J. Simpson; would I go on national television and state my disgust with my 'feelings' about his character; no; the 'Black Community' is in no condition, to offer up one another to the white power structure. Sounds idealistic and fanciful, but, I think that that is how many perceive what Hugheley's comments, supported.

I suppose my feelings are that, Black folk are in 'enemy territory', and we cannot afford to devalue one another within/and outside of 'the community'.
Thank you for your response.

AA.org is media available to the public. This site gets at least 100,000 views/month as a conservative estimate. There is no firm control over who views the board content (guests can read anywhere and post only in The Big House). Based on this and your quote below:

quote:
I suppose my feelings are that, Black folk are in 'enemy territory', and we cannot afford to devalue one another within/and outside of 'the community'.


Are there threads & comments on AA.org that violate this principle? If so, does DL Hughley deserve a different type & level of response than a poster here? Why? Is this an example of the model minority syndrome? Do 'celebrities' carry an extra burden of responsibility? Why?

Isn't this:

quote:
...Was it his right to disparage Rice, of course, but, I felt he did a great dis-service, as he, in my opinion, signalled to all present that it was ok to insult, disparage and make ridicule of a 'powerful' Black woman. I do'nt agree with Rice', public policy, and would state it in no uncertain terms, but, the manner in which this was done is the critical point, and applies to the Hughley comment--using racist ideology to devalue Black women to the public. Why couldl'nt this young man at the Oxford conference simply presented his argument in another fashion? Why could'nt Hughley simply have stated that he did not find them attractive, and leave it at that?


Political correctness? Expressing a potentially controversial, offensive or insensitive idea in a publicly acceptable way? If so, do you agree with:

quote:
Anger over having to be sensitive to the culture/gender/disability of others is totally a white boys issue.
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:

AA.org is media available to the public. This site gets at least 100,000 views/month as a conservative estimate. There is no firm control over who views the board content (guests can read anywhere and post only in The Big House). Based on this and your quote below:


with regard to the so-called black man DL Hughley;
what is the point of incessantly, repetitively quoting this?
I thought your issue was offensive statements related to race and/or gender, specifically referring to African-American women. To further elaborate, I believe you are making an assertion about status, community and responsibility. Hughley made a statement in joke form for public consumption via the media (TV) that could be viewed as offensive. Members of this forum make statements for public consumption via the media (web forum) that can be viewed as offensive.

If I understand your logic, aren't there members of this board that should be subject to boycotts & other sanctions? Most of the regulars have made an offensive statement at one time or another and had it cosigned by other members.


Does scope or level of influence absolve one of responsbiility for their statements?

I've framed several questions after I answered yours. Care to answer any?
D.L. Hughley Gets Boiled in the Imus Controversy

a Jamie Foster Brown interview

Just when you thought the Don Imus controversy was over, video clips on YouTube have heated up the leftover beef with comments that D.L. Hughley made during a May appearance on "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno." The comedian made jokes about the Rutgers University women's basketball team, saying that he didn't agree that they were hoes, but that some of them were nappy-headed. On-air personalities for Atlanta's V-103 radio show "Frank & Wanda in the Morning" lit into D.L. for making the joke, and leaders in Fort Worth, Texas, protested at one of his stand-up performances.


Shortly after word of his jokes started to spread, D.L. called S2S Publisher Jamie Foster Brown to discuss the situation. He starts off defending his controversial style of comedy, explaining that he won't apologize for a joke, but the conversation leads to a discussion about the pain that Black women nationwide feel when men talk bad about sisters. As you read on, you'll learn how he feels about jokes that hurt people's feelings. Do comedians have the right to trample everyone else in the name of laughter? Should we just get over hurtful comments if they are presented as jokes? Jamie wants to know why comedians feel entitled to say whatever they want about everyone else, then get upset when people say bad things about them. D.L. addresses these questions and shares some of the personal pain that he's covering up with comedy.


Is all fair in love and laughter? D.L. speaks his mind here, and you can speak your mind by writing us on the message boards at s2smagazine.com and telling us what you think.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Jamie: Well, what did you say?


D.L.: Well, I was on "Jay Leno," as far as the Don Imus thing. I said ... whether it was Isaiah Washington saying what he was saying or whether it was Mel Gibson saying what he was saying or Tim Hardaway saying what he was saying, we are grown men and people should be allowed to express ourselves. And the problem in America now is that you can't really tell your truth without somebody being offended. And of course there is a problem with freedom of speech because you might actually say something that offends people. But I've talked about President Clinton, my wife, Princess Diana, the pope, Jesus-I've had all things in my topic content, so I would no more want somebody governing what I was saying than anybody else. And I said that I don't know why anybody would take Don Imus seriously; he looks like a werewolf that didn't finish changing. And then I said I don't know why he apologized to Al Sharpton before he apologized to the girls. I mean, at one point Al Sharpton was doing more interviews than the girls. At one point I thought he played for Rutgers. I'm like, who's the chubby chick with the perm? And I said Don Imus called those girls nappy-headed hoes, and he was wrong because they wasn't hoes, but two or three of those girls were nappy-headed-let's be real. And you know they were some of the ugliest girls I've ever seen. And that's it; that's what I said, so ...


Jamie: You said those were some of the ugliest girls you've ever seen?


D.L.: Right, that's what I said as a joke, period, because I watched the game. I didn't watch the press conference; I watched the game. So it was a joke. So now, three months later, people are picking up on it and I kinda refuse to apologize for telling a joke. I guess people want a level of controversy.


Jamie: Well, what did Jay Leno say when you said that?


D.L.: "That's it for me. Good night." But by the same token, anybody who's ever watched me knows if you see me anywhere, from "Bill Maher" to "David Letterman," you know I'm always gonna speak what's on my mind, and to me it's innocuous. And also, I never understood why people got so upset about a joke-in particular people who call themselves civil rights leaders. I mean, if you consider the problems in the Black community, like 93 percent of Black people [who are killed] are killed by other Black people, one in three Black people in the country right now can't read, and there are more Black men in jail than in college, and you're worried about what Don Imus or a comedian said? That to me is ridiculous!


Jamie: When you're doing a joke about your wife, what do you say about her?


D.L.: It depends on what the situation is, but my wife knows how I am and what I say. My children know how I am. I think that comedy is the last place for honesty on the face of the earth, to me ... . And when I see people getting so upset about a joke, regardless of who's telling it, it kinda makes me wonder exactly what kind of world we're living in.


Jamie: I've found that comedians feel they can tell jokes about anybody and anything, but when somebody says something about them, they go off and they are upset about it.


D.L.: That is a problem. ... I can't speak for anybody else but I know that even if somebody said something that upset me, I would accept somebody's right to say it. I mean, human nature is human nature, but I'm not gonna knock somebody for feeling the way they feel any more than I expect anybody to knock what I feel!


Jamie: I think that, with Black women in general, we're under siege on every level right now. It's like we're not in vogue; it's like Black men are telling us they don't want to be with us, that we're too loud, we dress like hoochies.


D.L.: You are, d@#mit, y'all are some loud mother^#$%*rs! You're loud!


Jamie: Well, some of us are; not all of us are loud. [laughs] Okay?


D.L.: I wouldn't know about that. I've had a Black wife for 21 years.


Jamie: Well, no one race of women is all of anything, I don't think. Just like you feel like you have the right to say what you say, the thing is, you don't let anybody else say what they have to say. I didn't like Norbit. I love Eddie Murphy, I love Martin Lawrence; I love their genius, but I don't like it when they make fun of big Black women who have helped our race, who nurtured all these boys and brought them up. I mean, they could be talking about their mothers! It's not funny to us. It's very painful to us.


D.L.: I guess, Jamie, all I can say is this: When I grew up, everything that a comedian-and I can only speak for myself-almost everything we talk about is painful. And the reason I do comedy now is from pain.


Jamie: All comedians say that; that it's from pain.


D.L.: When I deal with something, even as painful as it is, my mother used to tell me you have to laugh to keep from crying. I was the ugly, nappy-headed Black boy in the neighborhood, I was the dumb dude. So I learned all of that stuff. And I would come home and my mom would say, "If they talk about you, sticks and stones can break ... ." I heard that forever! So to me-and I honestly believe that not all women feel victimized. I've been at clubs where [singing] "There's some hoes in this house ..." comes on and you will see women dancing to it and they'll say, "He ain't talking about me."


Jamie: Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but words are powerful.


D.L.: One of my entire missions in comedy is to teach. When I'm on a show like a Bill Maher, when I'm on CNN or "Regis & Kelly," my whole gig is to teach. That's what I do.


Jamie: I see you on Bill Maher. I'm proud of you, I have to tell you that. I'm not yelling. I just wanna get your mind on paper here.


D.L.: I think that when you have a race of people-when how we look or what we wear or what we listen to is who we are, how important is it that some White man said something about me that was a joke? And now he's off the air and I never knew he was there. How relevant is that? If tomorrow I'd never heard of any of these people, that still wouldn't change the situation in our community!

For more, pick up the August issue of Sister 2 Sister, on newsstands now.
I can't support a Black person making money off of misrepresentations of Black people for the enjoyment of a non-Black audience.

I can't even listen to local radio shows anymore. Every time a Black comedian comes on, they are using stereotypes to make fun of Black people as if that's the only shtick they can do. They are White stations, too. Non-Black people in the area actually say the stuff coming out of the comedians mouths seriously. Sometimes I think Black comedians are only invited to say what the non-Blacks wish to say with impunity. I can't think of any other group that comes here to do that shit.

I used to love so many popular comedians, but each time one comes to the area and does a minstrel show, I can't stomach the person any longer. To make matters worse, the hosts tend to have stereotypical White voices. So the Step'n Fetchits do their Black people..... skits and then all I can hear are those "Skip," "Chip," and "Becky" voices cracking all up.

It's scarring.

So, I thought I'd be completely against DL when I first heard about the uproar. But, I'm not.

Was DL equating nappiness with ugliness, or was he saying that a few players are nappy and many are ugly? If it's the second, I honestly think the joke might have been funny. I don't think it was said in the same vein as one of those racist radio show jokes or even the Imus situation.

The only offensive thing he did was call members of the team ugly. I've been calling DL ugly since I first saw him, so I can't point fingers on that one.

(You've gotta admit that he's one ugly mofo.)

I think one reason Imus caused an uproar was because he was using stereotypes of Black women to attack the team. Hughley didn't do that.

He does that often. But, he didn't do that here.

I don't agree with the Imus comparison. While the same people are involved and some of the same phrases are said, it is different.

It's like "nigger." Sometimes Whites as if it is okay for a Black person to say it, why can't they go up to a Black person and say it without judgement. Even if you don't think anyone should be saying the word, you probably don't think the situations are completely comparable.

You'd probably have a different interpretation if a brother said nigger than if that White guy did. The probability of the White guy using the term offensively is just greater than the Black guy. Then when you look at the context and see that the White guy is trying to be offensive and the Black guy isn't, having a different reaction is understandable.

When Imus went on about the "nappyheaded" players, he wasn't stating it as a mere fact about the texture of their hair. He was clearly a White guy trying to disparage Blacks.

Context needs to be looked at to decide whether DL is just stating a fact that they are nappy or trying to be an Black Imus. As he is a as a nappyhead, it's understandable that he gets some reasonable doubt. Did he have a racist intent? It's not so clear.

DL Hughley has some nerve talking about ugly, but as for that part of the joke, if some players are ugly, they are ugly.

Anyhow, this is one situation where I don't think people should feel guilty about attacking on entertainer and not the other.

Imus was trying to be a racist and sexist bastard. DL wasn't.

At least not this time.

Apples and oranges.
fro Wow! I see things haven't changed since I left for vacation. Well....carry on. Oh the question, does DL get it? To me....he's like any other brotha who gets a couple of pennies in his pocket and frat with massa-the same "man" he used to run from when he was getting in trouble in the hood....it's amazing the conversion. I'm not shocked why anyone [black or otherwise] should be? It is what it is...what it's always been despite the big bad talk brothas do about massa. In the end, they all go on the side of massa. Pitiful!!!! fro
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quote:
Our individualism has made us completely insensitive to slights that collectively affect us....

A white man degrades black women and just a few black men speak out.....

Then a brother gets on national TV and seconds the crackers notion that kinky haired black women are ugly....


On message boards brothers attack sisters who agree that our image should not be attacked in such a manner... especially in this context and by our own brethren.... but what do they care? its funny and THAT's what's important.. for them freedom of speech is more important than honor... oh.. but first you'd have to see WORTH in your women before you could understand how to HONOR them...


the loser... CONSTANTLY is the image of the BANTU (NOT "REFINED" featured) Black woman....



lawd..


Peace,
Khalliqa


fro appl appl I agree Sista K. And well said. fro

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