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How in the world could anyone construe Kanye's comments as being anti-Semitic? He stated the truth! Louis Farrakhan is correct. Kanye has nothing to apologize for because he didn't say anything wrong, offensive, false, and (certainly not) anti-Semitic. Besides, most Jewish people are not even of Semitic descent. They are Ashkenazi, of European descent. 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/re.../10/131008112539.htm

 

That's the problem in this country. Any black person with any power or influence, who doesn't stick with the Establishment's script, is always maligned, vilified, imprisoned (on trumped up charges), tarnished, censored, made mockery of, crucified, or assassinated. The Establishment didn't like Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. when he was alive. He's only tolerated now because he's dead. Any of our leaders who are labeled as 'controversial' have a target on their back. That's how things are in this country and how it has always been. Our people need to WAKE UP! We need to fully stand behind anyone who truly acts in our best interest and speaks out against the injustice being done to us (even at the risk of great personal cost). If we need whites' approval of our leaders then we are just pathetic slaves who deserve no respect from anyone.

 

I have been listening to the Time lectures by Louis Farrakhan. They are very informative. They really make you think and question everything (especially concerning us). 

Last edited by EarthAndSky

 

The Jewish and Arab lobbies too are very strong. It’s true. The idea that Jews control the world though is noise. Adolf Hitler proved that. Farrakhan says some good things but has limitations. He  also says that Jews are a   “gutter religion,” and  Adolf Hitler was  “a great man.”  He plays up to his Muslim world allegiances. He  blames the Jews for slavery and gives Arabs a free pass. That’s historical nonsense to this day. The Nation gives a pass to Arabs practicing genocide in Darfur. That’s wrong but they can’t face those contradictory facts. We have to think for ourselves.  Kanye West is okay but let’s get serious. What’d Kanye say,  "People want to say Obama can't make these moves or he's not executing. That's because he ain't got those connections”. Saying that Obama does not have the connections of Jews is kind of playing to the biased idea that Jews control the world. That’s pointless nonsense too. Maybe Kim Kardashian can speak to this. She won’t bow to the pressure from the Jews, will she? The whole thing is circus noise. 

The fact of the matter is that the old method of branding anyone who disagrees with Israeli polices or the actions of (self identified) zionist as "antisemitic" doesn't work the way it once did.  

 

Not by a long shot.

 

Of course I could respond directly to Jalil's comments....but everything contained in them has been debunked numerous times (ie Farrakhan has NEVER called Jews or Judaism a gutter religion etc).

 

check out the following article http://www.theguardian.com/wor...ation-boycott-israel

 

In response to the boycott we have the statements:

 

Avi Wortzman, the deputy education minister, also condemned the decision. He said: "This is a disgraceful attempt to meddle in the internal policies of the state of Israel under the guise of an academic debate and equal rights supposedly. The state of Israel grants all of its citizens an equal opportunity in the academic world and encourages the integration of minorities in academia."

 

Ronald Lauder, the president of the World Jewish Congress, said: "This vote to boycott Israel, one of the most democratic and academically free nations on the globe, shows the Orwellian antisemitism and moral bankruptcy of the ASA." The association was deeply biased and disconnected with reality, he added.

 

 

Notice a pattern?

 

The key is to simply hold your position when you know your position is based on Truth.  More of us can, and will do that when we know we'll be supported by those who are not afraid of those who do fear truth.

 

 

  Don't yall remember?  They've been after Kanye ever since he told the truth about that whore Taylor Swift girl.  As why since then, she's been getting awards after awards just cuz he said that.  Yes, Kanye is off the top.  I don't like his rap or his persona.....but!  As a mother, I see him as an ONLY child still grieving/emotionally struggling over the unexpected sudden death of his dear dear mother. He was a little more tame when she was alive cuz he had her guiding him as parents do.  But now?  It's on. The media is at his heel on every turn of his life-including the relationship with his whore financee and unfortunately the celebrity stalking of his little innocent baby daughter.  The spotlight in on them and because Kanye is a kinda immature in a lot of things and shout out STUPID shyte....the media is gun-ho on attempting to BREAK him[his spirit that they cannot control]-a master/slave move[how dare you call me out].

 

 Plus Kanye having the bomb back up [he is in the Oprah fold] doesn't help the media's cause.  Kanye not only MONEY behind him, is in the elite black celebrity click but he has one of the most successful music mongul backing him up-JayZ!  And because of all that?  It's pissing white folks OFF!!!!  Cuz as of right now they can't GET HIM.  And they want him BAD.  So from this point, everything this young brotha do or say is gonna be blown up and dissected by massa media,..even if it's true or not, But!      

Oh before I forget.  The blaming the Jews and not blaming the Arabs?  Is old propaganda used when most people couldn't find out the TRUTH!  That was wayyyyyyyyyy back when students believed racist professors and the audience believed what was on the glub-tube.  Now today?  It is NOT that easy to pull the wool over the head of the populus.  Although mainstream media is silent about it, the TRUTH is out there for research if folks wanna think for themselves.  Hell....it's been out there.  It just that it took WORK to find it.  But now that the truth is out for ALL to see, it is ridiculous that white folks, Jews and the Arabs can talk about HISTORY of slavery with a straight FACE!  If you believe in that crap in the black book that was written for the purpose a white God, you will believe that JEWS were the chosen ones[cuz they are not white per se].  I always ask CHOSEN for what?  Chosen as the THIEVES of African spirituality cuz they didn't have one of their own?  That would be a hellllllllllll yeah! Cuz their history points to them being a product of war and mayhem in Asia i.e. the middle east.  That is why the Jews have always been called the great imposters.  Cuz they stole an African religion not their own and embelished[sp] it to fit their circumstances-cuz they were/are human hybrids..  And the fact that neanderthal massa and lying slaves Jews got together and negotiated this Jesus thing as a cover up to justify slavery of Africans?  uh....that would ANOTHER hellllllll yeah.  

 

So no.  The lid of historical lies have been blown off.  Now everybody with eyes can see the two thousand year conspiracy that made massa and original slaver Arab heroes in their own land while hiding the truth of their barbaric primitive involvement in the most horrific human tragedy in world history-slavery!  And to make it stick....they used the light skin is positive and dark skin is negative to keep those on ground level drenched in an interpersonal racism that affects not only communities but families.  So massa and his boys done good.  Cuz as of today, slavery now called human trafficking is as powerful and ongoing as if it was never eradicated.  Proof is?  That the three wise men are really massa, jews and the arab.  Cuz the gift i.e. slavery they brought to the world[disguised as Jesus] is still here,  And is why ALL people NEED to research slavery on their own and not listen to the propaganda of those who have a hidden agenda. Cuz that's the ONLY way one is gonna find TRUTH!    But!

Last edited by Kocolicious
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

The fact of the matter is that the old method of branding anyone who disagrees with Israeli polices or the actions of (self identified) zionist as "antisemitic" doesn't work the way it once did.  

 

Not by a long shot.

 

Of course I could respond directly to Jalil's comments....but everything contained in them has been debunked numerous times (ie Farrakhan has NEVER called Jews or Judaism a gutter religion etc).

 

check out the following article http://www.theguardian.com/wor...ation-boycott-israel

 

In response to the boycott we have the statements:

 

Avi Wortzman, the deputy education minister, also condemned the decision. He said: "This is a disgraceful attempt to meddle in the internal policies of the state of Israel under the guise of an academic debate and equal rights supposedly. The state of Israel grants all of its citizens an equal opportunity in the academic world and encourages the integration of minorities in academia."

 

Ronald Lauder, the president of the World Jewish Congress, said: "This vote to boycott Israel, one of the most democratic and academically free nations on the globe, shows the Orwellian antisemitism and moral bankruptcy of the ASA." The association was deeply biased and disconnected with reality, he added.

 

 

Notice a pattern?

 

The key is to simply hold your position when you know your position is based on Truth.  More of us can, and will do that when we know we'll be supported by those who are not afraid of those who do fear truth.

 

 

Alright, you beat me to my own correction. To be precise, those quotes from Farrakhan about Hitler and Jews are taken out of context. Don’t want to join the circus. Now, Darfur genocide and Arab  domination of Sudan's power and wealth, that nightmare is for real I've had some friends from the Nation denying that. Denial, we know, is not a river in Egypt, it's looking away from reality.

To end this once and for all...

 

Minister Louis Farrakhan Addresses The 'Gutter Religion' Accusation

 

The definition of great...

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Great?s=t

 

From the Holy Bible, Book of Revelation, chapter 1, verse 9 (KJV):

'I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.'

 

From the Holy Bible, Book of Genesis, chapter 15, verses 13-14 (KJV):

 'And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

 'And also that nation, who they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.'

 

This prophesy is repeated in the Book of Acts, chapter 7, verses 7-8. In the Old Testament (KJV), Abraham is referred to as Abram.

 

There is no record of Jews ever being held in bondage for four hundred years in a strange land that was not theirs. The only people who fit this description is US, black Africans brought to the Americas, Caribbeans, and England as slaves in the holds of ships! We are the descendants of Abraham, which means that we are the true Semitic people! Anyone who slanders and defames US is an anti-Semite! This means the JDL is guilty of being anti-Semitic.

Last edited by EarthAndSky
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

Now, Darfur genocide and Arab  domination of Sudan's power and wealth, that nightmare is for real I've had some friends from the Nation denying that. Denial, we know, is not a river in Egypt, it's looking away from reality.

Also Debunked

 

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n05/m...civil-war-insurgency

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I spent some time with African tribe victims of unspeakable and tragic genocide in Darfur.  Some amazing people.It touched the heart. Who did it? The Janjaweed are a group of Arab partisans who were apparently involved in up to 400,000 murders not to mention rapes in an attempt to wipe out African tribes in Darfur. Janjaweed has been behind the genocide. Some of them were led by Muslim Sheikh Musa Hilal and similar others.  No way to debunk it,not elsewhere and hopefully not here, hundreds of thousands of Africans were tragically murdered. Holocaust.Genocide. Horror. 

Originally Posted by Jalil:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

Now, Darfur genocide and Arab  domination of Sudan's power and wealth, that nightmare is for real I've had some friends from the Nation denying that. Denial, we know, is not a river in Egypt, it's looking away from reality.

Also Debunked

 

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n05/m...civil-war-insurgency

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I spent some time with African tribe victims of unspeakable and tragic genocide in Darfur.  Some amazing people.It touched the heart. Who did it? The Janjaweed are a group of Arab partisans who were apparently involved in up to 400,000 murders not to mention rapes in an attempt to wipe out African tribes in Darfur. Janjaweed has been behind the genocide. Some of them were led by Muslim Sheikh Musa Hilal and similar others.  No way to debunk it,not elsewhere and hopefully not here, hundreds of thousands of Africans were tragically murdered. Holocaust.Genocide. Horror. 

 

Why did no one intervene to stop it, particularly Arab states since Arabs were the main murderers? Guess! The US did not want to complain supposedly because it could worsen relations with the Arabs due to the Neo Con attack on Iraq.  Whatever the case, no one stopped the Janjaweed genocide of African tribal folks. That is factual.

'We know that our oppressor is a liar.'

-Louis Farrakhan

 

'Whenever an unrighteous person brings you news...

Look carefully into it 'less you harm a people in ignorance and

be sorry for what you did.'

-Louis Farrakhan

 

Sudan is an Islamic nation. Why would the USA be concerned with the welfare of black Muslims in an African country? If the USA is so concerned about the welfare of the people in Darfur, why did it impose economic sanctions on the country? Sanctions that hurt the innocent? Why would Israel be concerned with the plight of black Muslims in Sudan? Question everything!

 

Louis Farrakhan traveled to Darfur in 2006 to find out for himself what was going on. Please watch this video (about 15 minutes long) to hear what he saw and heard. It's very revealing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heUnsVWBJV8

 

Last edited by EarthAndSky

On Durfur and the politics of the Anti Semitic charge.

 

I'd humbly ask that people pay close attention to Brother Akbar's statement and then check the video below.  I've posted it elsewhere on AA.org but the context is directly related to EarthAndSky's post. 

 

Darfur In Context

 

Redefining  anti-semitism to counter criticism.

 

 

Jeff Halper on Zionism

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by EarthAndSky:

'We know that our oppressor is a liar.'

-Louis Farrakhan

 

'Whenever an unrighteous person brings you news...

Look carefully into it 'less you harm a people in ignorance and

be sorry for what you did.'

-Louis Farrakhan

 

Sudan is an Islamic nation. Why would the USA be concerned with the welfare of black Muslims in an African country? If the USA is so concerned about the welfare of the people in Darfur, why did it impose economic sanctions on the country? Sanctions that hurt the innocent? Why would Israel be concerned with the plight of black Muslims in Sudan? Question everything!

 

Louis Farrakhan traveled to Darfur in 2006 to find out for himself what was going on. Please watch this video (about 15 minutes long) to hear what he saw and heard. It's very revealing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heUnsVWBJV8

 

 

Everything they said on the video was true, however, it still appears they they glossed over the "Slavery " aspect that was occurring in Sudan during this conflict, and the fact that it WAS Arabs murdering, enslaving and brutalizing and displacing non-Arab[non-Islamic] Africans and Arab adversaries there. It doesn't matter that the Arabs that committed most of these atrocities were Black, they were still Arabs.  

 

Just like how Republicans will try to take credit for African Americans being predominately Republican after Lincoln through the 'Dixiecrat' era as if the Republican party and its members' philosophies have remained the same, it appears that Farrakan and the other speaker are claiming that it could not be Arabs committing these atrocities in Sudan against Black people because the Arabs were Black themselves.  Their explanation was equivalent to saying that "Christians" were not responsible for something because the Christians that did it were Black, merely because the majority of the Christians are White.  Especially, after explaining the psychological aspects of bi-racial and mixed Black Arabs creating a "color-caste" system of prejudice and racism against pure Blacks in that country in the first place, that in itself is evidence of these atrocities having been committed out of racism.  

 

And, while, I respect the vast knowledge of the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakan and many aspects of the NOI's blueprint for self-reliance, I still question Minister Farrakan's [rightly so] criticisms of America and its history of slavery and its racist history against Black people here, because I find it disingenuous that he belongs to a religion that did the exact same thing, for far longer, to Black people, yet, he finds no fault in that religion, culture or its politics, or makes no mention of the fact that Black people are still being held as slaves in certain Arab countries.

 

 

Last edited by sunnubian
Originally Posted by sunnubian:

 

And, while, I respect the vast knowledge of the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakan and many aspects of the NOI's blueprint for self-reliance, I still question Minister Farrakan's [rightly so] criticisms of America and its history of slavery and its racist history against Black people here, because I find it disingenuous that he belongs to a religion that did the exact same thing, for far longer, to Black people, yet, he finds no fault in that religion, culture or its politics, or makes no mention of the fact that Black people are still being held as slaves in certain Arab countries.

 

 

 

We've been through this time and again.  Framing is part of how the term anti Semite is used to label people as toxic to dismiss their claims and observations.  

 

Sadly there has been (by no accident) the introduction and acceptance of a frame that makes no sense on examination.

 

The popular idea that Muslims don't want to/refuse to or gloss over slavery as a historic matter as well as present day claims is FALSE!

 

But like the use of the charge anti Semitic....that isn't the point of it.  The point is to further the culture that dismisses observations on the basis of a fictional narrative (i.e. attempting to label  the calling of Israel an apartheid state as anti Semitic although the language comes from Israeli, Jewish activist).  I don't think that you (Sunnubian) personally desire to to this...but it is the net effect.

 

The problem with this issue for Black Americans is that slavery is used and tossed around as a buzzword.   Our (quite understandable) reaction to that word is to STOP at the emotional response and not actually proceed to understand exactly what is going on in a given situation.

 

The issue isn't glossing over anything..its what happens when we think/suspect is going on is challenged/checked by the facts of the situation. 

 

As a side note dealing with the NOI in particular, this is where Black people's ignorance of the NOI on a theological basis becomes an issue.  The very existence of the NOI (theology) in the west ends any idea of subservience to that which isn't in the nature of the Blackman and Blackwoman.  To that end the NOI doesn't "belong" to any Islamic apologetic either theologically or programmatic-ly.  

 

google Wesley Muhammad and the African Origins of Islam. 

 

*had to edit and make it easier to read.

Last edited by Muhammad Cipher

Sista Sunnubian wrote:   I still question Minister Farrakan's [rightly so] criticisms of America and its history of slavery and its racist history against Black people here, because I find it disingenuous that he belongs to a religion that did the exact same thing, for far longer, to Black people, yet, he finds no fault in that religion, culture or its politics, or makes no mention of the fact that Black people are still being held as slaves in certain Arab countries.

 

   I stopped participating in this sort of politics cuz it's like hitting my head against the brick wall....but I couldn't HELP but totally agree with my sista on this particular subject of Sudan.  And the REAl problem we have with black so called leaders in our country?.  Is that they continuously IGNORE the obvious about the black plight in Africa.....especially in war-torn countries such as Sudan[the land of the original Nubians.].  But the bottom line for me is when black men USE religion to overlook the gential mutilation of millions of black African women and ONLY talk about the political controversy of east vs west as a guise.  It turns my STOMACH. And I see these men as MONSTERS of their own people.  And is probably why black men like you know who deliberately and consciously do not mention how innocent women and children are still being butchered and sold into slavery UNDER the SAME...the very same vicious backwards and primitive notion of a God who allows this.

 

What's the point of discussing this form of continual genocide intellectually  when black men can't see that this mistreatment of women could have very well been THEIR MOTHERS?!!!!  But I forgot women are not seen as equal humans to these sort of men who used big words, video clippings and scholastic jargon to justify the 2 thousand year abuse of African women. Ooooops I mean these sort of MONSTERS who deliberately dismiss this human tragedy.  No!  they wanna talk about massa.  And not the butcher with the razor, knife or glass in his hand.

 

So whatever these so-called black thinkers have to say about Sudan is null and void unless they are trying to use strategy to RESCUE them. Oh wait!  They don't even do that in their own black neighborhoods in the hood.  They just talk, talk talk, while the high school drop out rate continues to increase, teen pregnancy and incarcerated of black youth continues to soar.  Plus it's low down dirty SHAME that white celebrities had to bring this genocide story to  World MEDIA's attention when so-called brothas  in this country KNEW about it all along.   And still didn't have a sense of obligation to those unsuspecting innocents in Sudan or love for the women in their own families to do anything pro-active about it.  Cuz why?  They wanna fill their cherrios of fake egos [cuz their private parts are still in one piece] and talk about EVERTHING the white man is doing and not even MENTION the HUMAN slaughter their own so-called religion is doing to the people who just want to live their lives antamonically[sp] whole and in PEACE!!!  This is nothing more than political distraction and self-genocide.  And all this talk?  Is blah blah blah. Waste of air.   Cuz why?  It is inhumane to continuously IGNORE [again] the obvious mass destruction of an African people while laying on self righteous laurels that have proven to be historical ineffective and extremely socially SELFISH.   I hate to say this but there is no moral compass from some black men in this instance.  And tells how many black men FEEL about the women in their culture.  No matter what THEY say?  That's the focking bottom line.    And is why it took BLACK women in this country to free black folks. Yep I said it.    Cuz if we have waited for black men?  Who totally ENJOYED being the buck jumping from plantations to plantations?  We would still be SLAVES!!! [just as others still are in Africa today]  Just  keeping it real yall.   Okay.  I'm done. But!

Last edited by Kocolicious

We must understand that the media is a propaganda and entertainment machine. It's purpose is to keep Americans ignorant. 

 

1. The video I shared is a fifteen minute excerpt from an hour long interview. Louis Farrakhan traveled to Darfur on a fact-finding mission, to find out if genocide was actually occurring in that country. I am not considered a trusting individual but I do trust Louis Farrakhan, especially what he says. I do not trust anything the oppressor tells me, especially when it comes to black people anywhere. How many black leaders (in this country) traveled to Darfur to find out first-hand, for themselves, what was going on in Darfur? 

 

2. In regards to Sudan, there is an agenda. President George W. Bush's administration laid out a plan to take out seven countries in five years: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Iran. Google it. 4 down, 3 to go. This plan is still in effect; although, President Obama, it would seem, is trying to resist it in regards to Iran (much to the Zionists displeasure).

 

3. When the West wants the resources of another country (like Sudan), it will manufacture a human rights crisis in that country; inflame (or exploit) pre-existing conflict or tension in that country (like Sudan), or foment division within that country against its elected government (like Syria). The West will support (arms, money) any rebel group (regardless of how psycho it might be) against a government it wants to remove from power

 

4. Louis Farrakhan has spoken out vehemently against the mistreatment of women and girls, here and abroad, so many times that I have lost count. He has chastised black men (too many times to count), including those in clergy (whether Muslim, Christian, etc.), for mistreating and devaluing women. Many of his sermons are on YouTube. Please listen to them with an open mind.

 

5. Louis Farrakhan has vehemently spoken out against slavery and the injustices done to blacks, here and abroad. He has asked the government for reparations for what was done to us. He has spoken out against those Middle Eastern Muslims who violate the Quran. He has spoken out about their oppression of women and how they mistreat the darker skinned people in their countries.

 

6. The only so-called Muslims who enslaved black Africans were white Arabs (Saudi Arabia). Please do not malign an entire religion for the actions of a few. It is no different than white racists saying that all blacks are thieves. The majority of the world's Muslims do not live in the Middle East. Indonesia, for example, is a Muslim nation. Women are allowed to drive, receive higher education, work, etc. in Indonesia. This was true of Libya (before destruction), Iraq (before destruction), etc. The laws concerning women in Saudi Arabia have nothing to do with Islam but everything to do with male neanderthal thinking. Many religions have been corrupted with cultural practices or pagan rituals that have nothing to do with the religion itself (e.g. Christmas trees, beard-wearing, female castration, the burqa, and the Easter bunny). 

 

7. There are extremists in every religion. Religions should not be defined by those who say they are (fill in the blank) but are not but are really in the (fill in the blank) of Satan. There are wrongdoers in every religion but those religions shouldn't be defined by those individuals. 

 

8. There is no record of Muslims using Islam as a means to enslave an entire group of people against their will. There is no record of Islam enslaving people as a practice. There is a record of 'Christians' using Christianity as a means to enslave an entire group of people against their will. The justification used was that blacks were cursed descendants of Ham, destined to be hewers of wood forever. It is interesting to note that this belief first arose during the early stages of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. That story of Ham is a complete fabrication like those white images of Jesus. 

 

9. Not all Arabs are Muslim. That is a popular myth. Some are Christian. Some are Jews. A few may be Atheist.

 

10. The media would give us the impression that all Jews are against Muslims (in general) and Louis Farrakhan (in particular) and vice versa. That is false propaganda. Zionists are against Islam and vice versa. Zionism (not a religion!) was originally a political movement (to being Jews back to Palestine, presently called Israel). It has since become part of the military industrial complex. Please see what Jews against Zionism have to say. http://www.nkusa.org/index.cfm

Last edited by EarthAndSky

  Let me be CLEAR:  When I talk about Muslims i.e. Arab slavers?  I am talking those who believe in the prophet Muhammad who lived and thrive in the 7th century and went to conquer most of Asia and the north portion of Africa.  I'm talking abut those Arabs-who murdered and enslaved innocent Africans and eventually sold them to massa in the 16th and 17 century.  Now the new wave moslems in America? Not talking about them.   I KNOW the difference. Plus slaves men and women who came by way of the Atlantic Trade route didn't get castrated like those who were part of the Arab Slave Trade.

 

And until Arabs muslim and nonmuslims and black moslems here in America recognize that WOMEN are NOT chattel or commodities or subhumans, I personally will continue to  BLAME Arabs be they muslims or otherwise for the mass destruction of BLACK PEOPLE in Africa.  Please don't insult my intelligence.  I KNOW  better.  It is WRONG on so many levels to ignore the real problem it ain't even funny.  How can ONE enslave their mother, sister, grandmother, aunt and sleep like a baby at night just cuz some MAN wrote it in a book?.  Well....hell when it comes to us?  Books have lied lied lied about our history.  That's what book burnings were all about...the ones that had the REAL truth in it .

 

Now I don't get involved in the political roundtable of what some black men think is important for the black cause as long as they are in denial of FGM, child brides and the patriarchal ownernship of WOMEN.  And is why personally?  I don't give a DAMN about religion cuz for some reason WOMEN are the ONLY ones thrown under the bus.  There's something SICK about that.  And yet men will talk alllllll this shyte  about absolutely nothing when the bottlom line is?  Ha!  Black folks are not ONLY dying in Africa but they are being BUTCHERED and folks with their black book of so-called spirituality continue to either look the other way...or JUSTIFY it.  How inhumane!  Cuz until God comes down and talk to ME personally?  I am, not believing a DAMN thang a man says especially when he can watch his infant daughter get castrated before she understands what that part of her body part is. Or won't touch a woman unless her labia is torn from her body and he can see the blood coming from her sexual wound.   How CIVILIZED is that?  And what GOD would allow it?  Cuz it appears MAN don't give a damn cuz his penis is still in tact and functioning.  And until we stop talking around the obvious for the mere purpose of impressing each other or how I like to say...smelling each other....FGM, child rape and violence and dominance against women will continue.  Now what's more IMPORTANT?  Religion or humanity[i.e. saving people]? What is the true purpose of a MAN, if he is not here to protect his family?   I am taking REAL stuff yall not this bull crap rhetoric.   But!

Last edited by Kocolicious

Dr. Hassan E. El Talib, Ambassador of the Republic of the Sudan to India complains about unsubstantiated allegations against Sudan’s President, Omer Hassan El Bashir. The supposedly unfounded accusations of genocide have been categorically denied by Sudan. The Turks killed 1,000,000 Armenians who where Christian and they also deny it to this hour. We can split hairs all day about the color of the skin of the Janajaweed Arabs but 400,000 souls were murdered. Rwanda too, no excuses.  Spirit requires us to live by principles. Politics is about compromising principles to reach an end, like governments telling people to kill other folks for some “good”.  These shortcuts never work in the long run. They create a pile on of conflicts, lies and contradictions. Minister Farrakhan for all his brilliance and the good he’s done is not infallible. (I get that NOI folks may disagree.) He compromises too for political ends. However, he is a man. The Prophet  said not to worship him for that would be idol worship. Islam in truth is God centered although Shite and Sunni are at each other’s throats.   All crazy. That’s the way of the world. Letter of the law Orthodox types in Islam, Christianity and  Judaism don’t get the spirit of the law. Theocracy is impossible because people are insane. No one worships God. Everyone worships a war God, their own stupid brand name religion. No brand name religion worships God. Genocide happened in Sudan and Rwanda. No one can talk it away. That includes President Omer El Bashir of Sudan. Has there been no genocide in Sudan? Who killed those 400,000 souls?

Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

 

And until Arabs muslim and nonmuslims and black moslems here in America recognize that WOMEN are NOT chattel or commodities or subhumans, I personally will continue to  BLAME Arabs be they muslims or otherwise for the mass destruction of BLACK PEOPLE in Africa.  

 

I'm confused by this statement. Most Muslims I know do not view or treat women as chattel, as a commodity, or as subhumans. As stated previously, I've listened to Louis Farrakhan's speeches in which he has spoken strongly against the denigration, disrespect, and oppression of women, here and elsewhere. Many Muslims, whom I know, treat women with far more respect than Christians do.

 

The USA is considered a Christian nation. How does it value women, black women in particular? Porn, which demeans and devalues women, is allowed (per freedom of speech) to flourish in a supposedly Christian nation. Porn is broadcast on television, cinemas, on the internet, portrayed in games, and printed in magazines and smut books 24/7. Look how women are portrayed on television and on the movie screen in a supposedly Christian nation. Black women are constantly devalued, made mockery of, disrespected, and denigrated in the media. We are referred to as B----es, whores, etc. in music (rap) videos. The way we are portrayed is simply awful. Women in this country are not treated with respect. It is only an illusion of respect; otherwise, women in the entertainment business wouldn't feel compelled to degrade themselves. Islam cannot be blamed for the way women are treated in this country. The funny thing is that the Bible (Book of Leviticus?) states that women should dress modestly and cover their hair. How many Christian women dress modestly and cover their hair?

 

I have to disagree with you about Arabs being solely responsible for the destruction of Africa. Western Imperialism, without a doubt (beginning with colonialism), is primarily responsible for the destruction of Africa. Which group invaded all of Africa? Stealing its people and resources? Setting up a system of apartheid? Assassinated legitimate leaders like Patrice Lumumba? Which group continues to meddle in the affairs of African countries, makes plans to take out certain leaders of certain African countries, places inhumane sanctions on certain African countries, and continues to steal Africa's resources? The sphere of Arab influence in Africa has always been limited. Western Imperialism ensures that it remains that way. 

 

Please don't insult my intelligence.  I KNOW  better.  It is WRONG on so many levels to ignore the real problem it ain't even funny.  How can ONE enslave their mother, sister, grandmother, aunt and sleep like a baby at night just cuz some MAN wrote it in a book?.  Well....hell when it comes to us?  Books have lied lied lied about our history.  That's what book burnings were all about...the ones that had the REAL truth in it .

 

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. No one is ignoring the problem in Darfur (or elsewhere in Africa). The real problem is Western Imperialism. No one will say that there isn't human rights violations occurring in Darfur. Even Louis Farrakhan stated that there was true injustice going on in that country. He didn't ignore or minimize it. What he addressed, in that particular video clip, was the West's underlying motive for getting involved in the internal affairs of Sudan. The motive wasn't pure. It is hypocritical for this country to denounce human rights abuses in Darfur (or elsewhere) while turning a blind eye to the human rights abuses being done to blacks in its own backyard!

 

I don't give a DAMN about religion cuz for some reason WOMEN are the ONLY ones thrown under the bus.

 

I have to disagree with this point. Christianity has thrown all black people (male and female) under the bus, having us worshiping whites, thinking we are cursed, etc.

 

Black folks are not ONLY dying in Africa but they are being BUTCHERED and folks with their black book of so-called spirituality continue to either look the other way...or JUSTIFY it.

 

Which black religious leaders are justifying or ignoring this?  I haven't personally heard of any black religious leader condone or justify the crimes against black Africans. I've heard white racists condone and justify them, though.

 

 

I am, not believing a DAMN thang a man says especially when he can watch his infant daughter get castrated before she understands what that part of her body part is. Or won't touch a woman unless her labia is torn from her body and he can see the blood coming from her sexual wound.   How CIVILIZED is that?  And what GOD would allow it? 

 

How many men in this country have watched, let alone allowed, their female infants be castrated (mutilated)?  All men are not like that, even in some of those countries that practice FGM!!! It's not fair to tarnish all men, everywhere, for the behavior of some.

 

I agree that FGM is a horrific practice that needs to end NOW; however, it has nothing to do with God. God didn't tell anyone to carry out this horrific deed against females. Human beings are solely responsible for this. God gave each of us freedom to choose. Freedom to believe in Him or not.   He gave us a BRAIN. What we decide to do with our brains is up to us. All God wants from us is to be righteous and to obey His (true, not made-up by man and claimed to be from God) commandments (don't steal, murder, etc.). If we choose to be unrighteous, we have to take responsibility for the consequences of our actions. God doesn't have to come down here to punish us for everything because there is this little thing called 'cause and effect.' Human beings are responsible for this Hell on earth, not God.

 

FGM is not a religious practice. It is a cultural practice. There is no religion that I am aware of that actually states that females should be mutilated in such a fashion. 

 

Religion or humanity[i.e. saving people]? What is the true purpose of a MAN, if he is not here to protect his family?

 

Religion is supposed to be about saving people but, like I said, it has been corrupted or hijacked by imperfect human beings who have difficulty doing the right thing. Men are supposed to be the true protectors of family but, unfortunately, this world is currently FUBAR. Every man is not doing his job. Some seem to lack interest. Some actually prey on women and children.

 

Kocolicious, this world hasn't always been like this. It will not remain in this messed up state forever. 

 

 

Warning: @Earth and Sky....my brotha! I suggest you get some coffee and kick back cuz my response to you in this discussion is very long but necessary.

 

 

And until Arabs Muslim and Nonmuslims and black moslems here in America recognize that WOMEN are NOT chattel or commodities or subhumans, I personally will continue to BLAME Arabs be they muslims or otherwise for the mass destruction of BLACK PEOPLE in Africa.

I'm confused by this statement. Most Muslims I know do not view or treat women as chattel, as a commodity, or as subhumans. As stated previously, I've listened to Louis Farrakhan's speeches in which he has spoken strongly against the denigration, disrespect, and oppression of women, here and elsewhere. Many Muslims, whom I know, treat women with far more respect than Christians do.

 

And that depends on what you mean by respect. If they provide for their women, treat them with their form of dignity, why is it that many of these Muslim women have RULES they must abide by? It shouldn't be forced or converted rules. My father was a Muslim during the reign of Malcolm X and I never felt because I was a girl that I was limited in my freedom as a human being.  

 

You see my brotha....you're not a woman or female....you have empathy true....but! You don't know what it may feel like being told that you are NOT equal to the man you marry or the male infant you give birth to. And why should women be part of any religion if they are not given their human freedom? In some Arabs countries, women are prohibited to drive...it's changing but it is changing slowly. And the reason for this denial? The men perspective believes if women are given rights to drive they will be having sex in the back seat of their cars. How ridiculous! The real reason? They do not WANT women to know what it FEELS like to have personal FREEDOM.

The USA is considered a Christian nation. How does it value women, black women in particular? Porn, which demeans and devalues women, is allowed (per freedom of speech) to flourish in a supposedly Christian nation. Porn is broadcast on television, cinemas, on the internet, portrayed in games, and printed in magazines and smut books 24/7.

 

Porn is done underground in the Arab world like anything else illegal, my brotha. On the surface, the law there is cruel if caught. But there? It is more of a man's world than any other place on the globe. So they can do anything they want....as long as they don't get caught and don't get caught in public with a woman not a family member by the moral police. No?

 

Look how women are portrayed on television and on the movie screen in a supposedly Christian nation. Black women are constantly devalued, made mockery of, disrespected, and denigrated in the media. We are referred to as B----es, whores, etc. in music (rap) videos. The way we are portrayed is simply awful.

 

I agree. And it's most men doing this. It has become a sign of passage.

 

Women in this country are not treated with respect. It is only an illusion of respect; otherwise, women in the entertainment business wouldn't feel compelled to degrade themselves.

 

I agree.


Islam cannot be blamed for the way women are treated in this country. The funny thing is that the Bible (Book of Leviticus?) states that women should dress modestly and cover their hair.

 

I'm not blaming a dogma. I'm BLAMING men. Why should WOMEN cover their hair? Why should they COVER anything they don't want to cover just cuz it is written in a book? There is a REASON why she has hair....it is hers to do what she wishes. Man does what he wants with his and he is not COVERED up. Why must she be? Why must Man be a WOMAN'S dictator? We know why.

 

How many Christian women dress modestly and cover their hair?

 

Why are these ridiculous RULES placed on women? They are NOT slaves, commodities or animals. They should have the ability to dress they way they want. It is man who do not have CONTROL over his behavior when looking at women. Otherwise, women wouldn't be targeted or preyed on. How can you prey on your own speices and then blame the catch? This is like blaming the women for men's behavior. That ain't gonna fly with me cuz I taught my boys to ALWAYS respect women and if they are in a situation where violence might occur? Run for the hills. That's respect my brotha.

 

Not being dictated to about how to dress or to act is a HUMAN right. Additionally, I'm not blaming RELIGION. I'm pointing to the MEN behind those religions. Cuz it is THEIR religion. And they are the biggest hyprocrites. Cuz they say one thing and do another entirely.....and most times the WOMEN are the ones thrown under the bus....not the men.

I have to disagree with you about Arabs being solely responsible for the destruction of Africa.

 

You can disagree doesn't make it true.

 

Western Imperialism, without a doubt (beginning with colonialism), is primarily responsible for the destruction of Africa.

 

I disagree my brotha. Simply cuz Arabs was the human cancer that started this whole mess in Africa. And this cancer spread maybe not across the continent only because of medical reasons. Plus the Arab slave trade TAUGHT the Europeans all the ins and outs of slavery since they had mastered the practice. And during the time Arabs was busying conquering Asia and portion of Africa, 200 years later the Crusades were implemented by Europe and Arabs. Fighting over who's God is the right God [which lasted up to the 20th century]...but in the meantime in between time Europe began struggling with the bubonic plague epidemic and other infectious diseases as a ramification of war and poor sanitation which led to losing half the population [around 25 to 30 million people].

 

And before Europeans could get back on their feet, they were slapped with the Little Ice age beginning in the 16th century where most of Europe was freezing and starving. How could they possibly be able to do what you're suggesting when all this stuff was going on in their continent? Fact is my brotha, the colonization of Africa by Europeans began in the 19th century during the scrambling of Africa era which is not the same as they involvement in the slave trade..

 

Which group invaded all of Africa?

 

Well the Arab conquest collapsed in the 17th century. But the Arabs had already set the stage for Europeans to come in once the chill from Europe was gone. Although their jihad had ended, the Arabs were still selling slaves to Europeans which began the colonization of the Americas and the New World and subsequently the interior of Africa at that point was up for grabs. And it was the discovery of quinone[sp] that allowed the Europeans to go deeper into the bowels of Africa. Before then, they were stopped by malaria.

 

Stealing its people and resources?

 

That would be the Arabs. Although the Arabs wanted slaves for domestic purposes and to fill their army base, they are the main ones who stole the African Egyptain's identity as their own. Even though Alexander the Great stole the sacred strolls of the Mystery temples and the science and education of Egypt in the BC era, it was the Arabs who initially raped the black identity of North Africa.

 

Setting up a system of apartheid?

 

This occurred after the fact, my brotha. Once the Europeans got their bearings....it was on then.

 

Assassinated legitimate leaders like Patrice Lumumba? Which group continues to meddle in the affairs of African countries, makes plans to take out certain leaders of certain African countries, places inhumane sanctions on certain African countries, and continues to steal Africa's resources?

 

Well....they got in. They are descendants of neanderthals....I mean what do you expect? Africa is a place of plenty. After the Arabs stopped raping Africa, it was the Europeans' turn. But they had a mutual silent agreement...well after the crusades anyway. I don't care what anybody says. The fact that this group are both fair skinned and can travel throughout the world as power moguels....Arabs are the FIRST ones to limited Africans. Cuz if you had dark skin, you were considered a slave and unworthy. And it's been that way every since. No?

 

The sphere of Arab influence in Africa has always been limited.

 

For a reason my brotha. They had most of Asia, the top portion and east side of upper Africa.

 

Western Imperialism ensures that it remains that way.

 

Well....I look at it differently...as you can see.

It is hypocritical for this country to denounce human rights abuses in Darfur (or elsewhere) while turning a blind eye to the human rights abuses being done to blacks in its own backyard!

 

I agree with that! And the rules set forth for women in Islam, Christanity, Hindus etc are MAN based. And that should be eradicated. No human OWNS another human. Not even parents own their children. We are all free spirits but when religion comes into the mix that's where WOMEN are thrown under the bus because they are considered the weaker sex-not the respected sex for bring life into the world. And I got news for men....there is absolutely NOTHING weak about giving birth, raising children and providing a safe place-women do that all day long. And that shouldn't be minimized. But it is.

 

And as woman, a mother, a daughter of both Muslim and Christian parents, you gotta believe that I have heard it all when it pertains to a woman's duty. A man doesn't have that right especially when he is born from her-now if he was born from a man? A whole different party. But since that's not the case, how are men gonna betray the only SOURCE that can bring life in the world? And then justifying enslaving her based on MAN'S religious convictions not hers. That my brotha is hypocritical. And cruel to the mothers all over this planet.

I have to disagree. Christianity has thrown all black people (male and female) under the bus, having us worshiping whites, thinking we are cursed, etc.

 

No disrespect my brotha. Pleasssssssssse. True. Christianity did a lot of horrific things to black Africans. I will agree....but the one thing it did not do[although furgitive black men were hunted and castrated for escaping the plantation), massa did not implement FGM on the female African slave. If he had, we will STILL be slaves cuz for the obvious reasons. And since that didn't happen, the voice that was wacked off back in Africa....screamed loudly in the states until we were FREE and then a hundred years later were given civil/human rights. Africans who were the slaves of the Arab Slave Trade did not HAVE that luxury. And still don't. No?

 

Which black religious leaders are justifying or ignoring this? I haven't personally heard of any black religious leader condone or justify the crimes against black Africans. I've heard white racists condone and justify them, though.

 

Well off the top of my head I can truly say most Black men are saying nothing cuz they are cowards-they are turning the other cheek at black women's expense. Please look at black history in this country and when you do you will find WOMEN risking their lives to protect their people....while a lot of black men were shaking in their boots for fear of lynching...so instead fighting for our freedom many of em decided to start preaching about God. That was easier and would make massa feel like threatened. I mean don't get me wrong lynching is a good reason to be afraid however, you have to have vision for your people and sometimes that means self-sacrafice and standing in your truth-which many upon many preachers REFUSED to do. No?

How many men in this country have watched, let alone allowed, their female infants be castrated (mutilated)?

 

FGM is prohibited in this country. One of the beautiful perks of being on the other side of this sexual brutality against women. However, ask that question to the brothas in Darfur where 65-70% of women and female infants are affected.

 

All men are not like that, even in some of those countries that practice FGM!!!

 

Oh yeah? Which country specifically has MEN refusing to allow their female infant to take part in that? I'm curious. Cuz last I researched there has not been ANY men coming forward and providing protection for their innocent children. Not one. You know somethin I don't know?

 

Again, I am not convinced that all men are not like that otherwise FGM would not STILL be a practice hidden behind the veil of culture, custom or tradition on the tongue of religion. That's a man thang to justifiy it and say that it is God's will. Trust and believe if men were getting their penises wacked off? This practice would have been eradicated upon inception instead of being an ongoing slaughtering thousands of years later. Even when castration was the "it" thing as one of the five punishments for prisioners of war back in the day....there were a lot of men willfully castrating themseleves as proof of loyalty and commitment to the King. This occurred in China, Japan and the Middle East...but! I don't wanna go off base with this so I'm gonna just stop here.

 

It's not fair to tarnish all men, everywhere, for the behavior of some.

 

Not some my brotha. Merely ummm lemme see. Only those brothas in 34 countries in Africa; men in the 13-14 countries in the Middle East; and oh ho looky here the men in 9 countries in Asia. And if you look at world history, in places where Arabs conquered, FGM was placed on the women as a slave method to control their sexual desires and drive..to change what men consider aggressive behavior to passive-you do ANIMALS like that...not human beings. No matter what reasons men are comfortable with [cuz it is not for the most part happening to them] it is WRONG to mutilated anyone for self-serving purposes. Folks have a RIGHT to their life and BODY parts. Bottom line. Okay you say it's not a God practice, then why are men who are sooooo committed to their God allowing this human cruelty to occur to their family? What is the reasonable explanation? For me, it's slavery of women; ownership of women; using the patriarchal religion to justify controlling all areas of women's activity-why?

I agree that FGM is a horrific practice that needs to end NOW; however, it has nothing to do with God. God didn't tell anyone to carry out this horrific deed against females. Human beings are solely responsible for this. God gave each of us freedom to choose. Freedom to believe in Him or not. He gave us a BRAIN. What we decide to do with our brains is up to us. All God wants from us is to be righteous and to obey His (true, not made-up by man and claimed to be from God) commandments (don't steal, murder, etc.). If we choose to be unrighteous, we have to take responsibility for the consequences of our actions. God doesn't have to come down here to punish us for everything because there is this little thing called 'cause and effect.' Human beings are responsible for this Hell on earth, not God.

 

My brotha that sounds soooooooo wonderful...but! That ain't the world I live in. Folks are not even THINKING about consequences to their behavior-hell that's the last thing on their minds. The only thought? Themselves! What can "I" get outta of it? "So if I sell my daughter in the guise of arranged marriage (dowry) to help take care of the rest of the family even though she is only 9 years old, saying it's God's will even if it isn't true." My question: how is the 9 year old gonna know its a lie on God? And it is this type of thing that has been passed down from generation to generation. I call it pimping your own people. And true it FGM not a religion practice[cuz India practice FGM is some regions and many of them are Hindus...) however, it's NOT hard to tell where this sort of thing derived cuz India was conquered by the Arabs in the 7th century and this when the practice of FGM began.

 

And you're right there is a thing called cause and effect and is probably why many of these places are still primitive and backwards in their thinking and living and culture remains undeveloped...cuz you put out cruelty not only do you get back but you don't grow or expand, however, if you are unable to understand the effect of the wrong you caused how can you feel the ramifications of wrong behavior? You don't cuz everyone else around you are doing the same. And if shyte happens, well hell, that's just part of life they tell you. But my point is, a child doesn't know anything about gravity until you tell him...so in the meantime he may decide to ride his bike on a picket fence just cuz it excites him to do so. As in the many cases in patriarchal societies where women have no human rights to their own lives. It excites men to know they CONTROL something. Even if it's their own wives and children. Pitiful.


FGM is not a religious practice. It is a cultural practice. There is no religion that I am aware of that actually states that females should be mutilated in such a fashion.

 

You're right it is not a religious practice. It is a slave practice...again that is now hidden behind the veil of culture, custom and tradition i.e. religion. And most times, these customs, cultures and traditions have a Muslim base. Most Africans who HAVE to participate in this practice? Land was conquered by the Arabs. And if you look at the geographic locations of this heinous act throughout the world, you will see it is solely done in places the Arabs conquered. No?

Religion is supposed to be about saving people but, like I said, it has been corrupted or hijacked by imperfect human beings who have difficulty doing the right thing. Men are supposed to be the true protectors of family but, unfortunately, this world is currently FUBAR. Every man is not doing his job. Some seem to lack interest. Some actually prey on women and children.

 

Just curious.  What is FUBAR?  But come on my brotha. All this stuff about the sexual predation of religion against children has been all over the news for several years. Priests/preachers/monks have been FINALLY exposed as pedophiles or rapists they are. The catholic church has paid MILLIONS of dollars to people who have been under this hammer of sexual abuse and more folks continue to come forward. Cults disguised themselves as children of God or advocates of God are really sick men using women and children for their sexual ploys. Remember Jim Jones? Bishop Jones?  Come on. There is toooo many examples to give you and I know you know what I'm talking about. And it ain't gonna fly saying " oh it's not all men or all churches or all temples....the bottom line FGM continues to happen under our watch. And FGM is one of those things where people who are not directly affected think it could NEVER happen to them. And then there are places where this sort of thing is kept quiet. It has taken years to get Arab and African communities to even discussed FGM. And even now, many STILL hide behind so-called tradition by saying "oh it's been done for years." Yeah but is it RIGHT? That would be a helllllllllllll no!

Kocolicious, this world hasn't always been like this. It will not remain in this messed up state forever.

 

I know. I know we live in a cycle world. Where it will come around again where there will be peace and social cooperation but I am sure that FGM will not be eradicated in my lifetime or even in my grandchildren's lifetime. And it seems the more we become an advance civilization, the more barbaric acts appear against women and children. It is this mindset that must be eradicated. As a FGM advocate, I have no faith.  Cuz thus far, no religion has stopped it or bothered to condemn it from what I've been hearing.  Men need to REALLY understand that women are the other half of humanity or who they are as human beings. And if men continue to look the other way because they got their penises in check? As cycles do? It will come right back around and bite them in places of rage and human disrespect. And the million question will be? Who will listen to them? Cuz it's acoming.  Trust and believe.   But!

 

Minister Louis Farrakhan Defends Kanye West's 'Classic Antisemitism' Comment (VIDEO)

Posted: 12/17/2013 12:39 pm EST

 

Late last month Kanye West caused a bit of a riff stemming from his Power 105 Breakfast Club interview where he stated that black people aren’t afforded the same opportunities as Jewish people due to the lack of resources and connections provided.

 

West’s opinion went on to capture the attention of the Anti-Defamation League who deemed the comment as an example of “classic anti-Semitism” and prompting a response from the controversial rapper.

To the Grammy Award-winner’s defense, Minister Louis Farrakhan has released a video clip advising him not to apologize for his actions.

“Now the ADL has jumped on Kanye West, because he said; ‘Black people don’t have the same level of connections as Jewish people. Black people don’t have the same connection as oil people.’ Did he lie? No, he told the truth.”

 

Check out Minister Farrakhan’s response to the ADL’s statement against Kanye in the video clip below.

 

<fieldset><legend>Quick Poll</legend>

Do you think Kanye should apologize for his comment?

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VOTE

 

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Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

 

Minister Louis Farrakhan Defends Kanye West's 'Classic Antisemitism' Comment (VIDEO)

Posted: 12/17/2013 12:39 pm EST

 

Late last month Kanye West caused a bit of a riff stemming from his Power 105 Breakfast Club interview where he stated that black people aren’t afforded the same opportunities as Jewish people due to the lack of resources and connections provided.

 

West’s opinion went on to capture the attention of the Anti-Defamation League who deemed the comment as an example of “classic anti-Semitism” and prompting a response from the controversial rapper.

To the Grammy Award-winner’s defense, Minister Louis Farrakhan has released a video clip advising him not to apologize for his actions.

“Now the ADL has jumped on Kanye West, because he said; ‘Black people don’t have the same level of connections as Jewish people. Black people don’t have the same connection as oil people.’ Did he lie? No, he told the truth.”

 

Check out Minister Farrakhan’s response to the ADL’s statement against Kanye in the video clip below.

 


Do you think Kanye should apologize for his comment?

 

Again, none of these things happen in a vacuum.  And yes the ADL targets people whom they believe will not fight back. 

 

 

It bares repeating the clip discussing the redefinition of "anti Semitic".  The language that is described is exactly what is mentioned in the ADL's statement about Kanye. 

 

 

Something was left unsaid. I’ve read NOI material for years and once believed Min. Farakkhan’s claims that that Jews and not Arabs were most heavily involved in the Atlantic slave trade. His claim that 3 out of 4 slave holders were Jews was a first red flag. Down South? That’s when I began to suspect that he was a bigot playing up to Muslims in the MENA region. How many black folks have Jewish last names from  Massa? No, these are English and Irish names. We know that’s what the X is about.  Getting rid of those cursed names is right. Let’s be honest. Min. Farrakhan’s claims that 3 out of 4 plantation owners were Jews is a lie. Whoopi "Goldberg", and her name is for stage, is one of the few Jewish surnames. It is  known that Arabs have been in the slave trade for 1400 years. Min  Farrakhan tries too hard to change facts and by this he makes himself a smaller man.  It is why he is not a historically great man. Malcolm X was going in the direction of greatness. Farrakhan’s  response in the video is weak, over done. And I’m not defending the ADL, treatment of Palestinians  in Israel or worked up over Kanye’s rap, . Mandela was a transcendent unifier. Malcolm was going in that direction after he came back from Mecca.  He defended his own first but he began to see the big picture. That’s the One.

Originally Posted by Jalil:

Something was left unsaid. I’ve read NOI material for years and once believed Min. Farakkhan’s claims that that Jews and not Arabs were most heavily involved in the Atlantic slave trade. His claim that 3 out of 4 slave holders were Jews was a first red flag. Down South? That’s when I began to suspect that he was a bigot playing up to Muslims in the MENA region. How many black folks have Jewish last names from  Massa? No, these are English and Irish names. We know that’s what the X is about.  Getting rid of those cursed names is right. Let’s be honest. Min. Farrakhan’s claims that 3 out of 4 plantation owners were Jews is a lie. Whoopi "Goldberg", and her name is for stage, is one of the few Jewish surnames. It is  known that Arabs have been in the slave trade for 1400 years. Min  Farrakhan tries too hard to change facts and by this he makes himself a smaller man.  It is why he is not a historically great man. Malcolm X was going in the direction of greatness. Farrakhan’s  response in the video is weak, over done. And I’m not defending the ADL, treatment of Palestinians  in Israel or worked up over Kanye’s rap, . Mandela was a transcendent unifier. Malcolm was going in that direction after he came back from Mecca.  He defended his own first but he began to see the big picture. That’s the One.

 

That was a very sad and poorly constructed straw man.

 

Unfortunately for you, Jewish involvement in the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade is a matter of historical fact that is documented by respected Jewish sources.   Beyond that your premiss is false.  The NOI did not advance an argument of Jewish involvement OVER Arab involvement. Jewish/Zionist activist attacked the NOI and denied ever having any involvement in the Slave trade.  History doesn't support that view and there are people upset about that fact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

From what I’ve gathered, Jews were more heavily involved with exporting live humans to Brazil than in the US where Franklin and Armfield were the prominent slavers but so what - they get no free pass.  Let’s face it, Jews and Arabs have never apologized for having unclean hands. Min. Farrakhan politically and misleadingly states that “Black people have been fed that Arabs were involved in the slave trade. That Arabs misused Africans.” Those are not lies. They are facts.  Politicians tilt things to their own ends. It sometimes works. Min. Farrakhan also honestly said that there’s a “racist poison that exists in the Arab mind that was seen in the time of the prophet: When Bilal accepted Islam, he was persecuted by the early Muslims. So this sense that we are “inferior,” that we are “less than” White Arabs, or, other Arabs, or Muslims—that feeling will be done away with as we rise into civilized Islamic behavior and culture.” There’s a lot of positive aspiration here. Not looking to make a “straw man” argument  but am  searching for facts. Maybe that’s too slippery. NOI is seeking a way to ennoble folks and connect  with Islam at large. I’m no expert but can question  NOI’s ties or support  with Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir because it looks like we have persisting enslavement of Africans in Sudan. Jews aside, does Min. Farrakhan outright condemn this atrocity?  Just saying, politicians are always short changing truth  and compromising one thing for another. Maybe this is inescapable. I think so. Not to confuse that with truth.Unfortunately for Theocrats, politics and religion don’t really mix except (maybe, hopefully) in the most exceptional, the elect, and in my heart and mind, that would be Malcolm X.  

Brotha Jalil wrote: Something was left unsaid. I’ve read NOI material for years and once believed Min. Farakkhan’s claims that that Jews and not Arabs were most heavily involved in the Atlantic slave trade. His claim that 3 out of 4 slave holders were Jews was a first red flag. Down South? That’s when I began to suspect that he was a bigot playing up to Muslims in the MENA region. How many black folks have Jewish last names from Massa? No, these are English and Irish names. We know that’s what the X is about. Getting rid of those cursed names is right. Let’s be honest. Min. Farrakhan’s claims that 3 out of 4 plantation owners were Jews is a lie. Whoopi "Goldberg", and her name is for stage, is one of the few Jewish surnames. It is known that Arabs have been in the slave trade for 1400 years. Min Farrakhan tries too hard to change facts and by this he makes himself a smaller man. It is why he is not a historically great man. Malcolm X was going in the direction of greatness. Farrakhan’s response in the video is weak, over done. And I’m not defending the ADL, treatment of Palestinians in Israel or worked up over Kanye’s rap, . Mandela was a transcendent unifier.

I just LOVE a thinking man! I agree with you my brotha. The Jews did participate in slavery but in the beginning primarily in the eastern/central portion of Europe which includes Spain and Portugal. Their participation in white slavery is probably one of the many reasons why Jews started being persecuted and subsequently exiled from Europe. They got into the slavery of Africans during the onset of the Atlantic Slave Trade. However, it is not clear to me how much their involvement cuz of the resentment from both the Arabs and Europeans against them due for the most part of the fact Jews had been selling white christians as slaves since the 4th and 5th century AD. I also believe that their involvement occurred after the collapse of the Roman Empire and took over slaving from the Romans. I don't remember actually the final breakdown to this but I do know that Arabs and Europeans alike used their religious dogma to justify slavery as a form of "saving" uncivilized heathens in Africa[and is why I don't believe in any of the main religious books: the Bible, The Quran and The Talmund]. The true reason is they did it for MONEY and POWER.

And many of the Jews who took part of the Atlantic Slave Trade disguised themselves as christians or converts because of the hostility developed because of their involvement of enslaving Europeans. Only cuz at that time, you could not distinquish where the whites derived in the Europe spectrum. Were they peasants, serfs, what? And many times, christian slaves were thrown into the mix and is why the resentment of Jews in Europe increased where genocides of them occurred across the continent. I am sure that Jews participated in all areas of slavery i.e. of whitefolks as well as Africans. But their greed [slaves, mineral resources etc] caused the friction from both Arabs and Europeans. I don't believe that Jews are hated because of their betrayal to Jesus in the bible. I believe it had a lot to do with MONEY and slave participation. Which was what caused most disagreements back then.

 

And for me? I really see the Jews not only as thieves of African chattel but as thieves of African culture. Cuz it is my belief that Jews stole the Hebrew identity of Africans [Ethiopia] and called it their own solely BECAUSE they didn't have a true identity to point to. So they took it from the stolen African strolls and created their own legacy from it. Thus the creation of the Talmud and from there? The creation of the Bible and the Qu'ran. And because of their ability to be merchants which included slavery and ownership of diamond mines, land etc.from Africa that is why worldwide Jews is seen as dirty, shifty, sneaky, rat people who feed of other folks social heredity. Jews were massa and arabs competition!

See? The jews [undercapped for a reason] could blend in back then and be slave traders cuz they look both white and semitic[sp]. That was their edge to be a part of the human gold. However, white folks KNOW why they hate jews. And arabs know why they hate Jews. It has nothing to do with biblical stories. Cuz really no one is telling the REAL story of the relationship among the three. But all you have to do is look at history and it is right there. Not in the bible. Not in the Qu'ran. Not in the Talmund. But in world HISTORY! Because what I am saying is so outside the box? It is totally rejected by male scholars. However, doesn't mean it isn't the truth but just that male dominate scholars[who lie all the time about history] reject the notion is all cuz they have control over what is written. But time and time again they have been exposed as liars especially back in the piltdown man days AND also when many of them large thinkers thought the world was flat. So..

Malcolm was going in that direction after he came back from Mecca. He defended his own first but he began to see the big picture. That’s the One.

I agree again. Malcolm was on his way baby. In Mecca, he was blown away to see men with the bluest eyes brothers to men with the brownest eyes. He saw diversity in religious unity. But this evolution was soon to be short lived. Cuz he was at the tip of discovering the REAL truth about African slavery on both sides...well on three sides. But! He was stopped for a reason. Cuz why? He was a genius. And he was gonna expose the real deal behind massa, the arabs and the jews involvement in Africa! And alllllllll three couldn't let that happen. But he was definitely our messiah and it probably was a divine reason from the universe why he was given 5 daughters and no sons. Cuz for the first time in history thus far? A Black MAN was about to be the savior for all black people in America which rapture included women and children as a human/family unit not as chattel or sexual servants.

Side note: When I was teaching in the juvenile detentions a thousand years ago, I used Malcolm X's story as a model to redefine worth to misguided black youths. I used to give away hundreds of his books [The Autobiography of Malcolm X] to these students to inspire them and let them KNOW visually that you can do and be ANYTHING you want if you believe in yourself. Malcolm did. He self-taught himself and consequently became one of the greatest speakers in the world. But that achievement clearly was a threat to ALL three cultures that had historically enslaved us. So Malcolm was stopped not by massa but his OWN people[probably appointed by the three]-which shows how brainwashed some black men still were back then. Anyway, you have a good point my brotha. And as a girl, I never understood why some brothers who converted to Islam in these united states used that conversion to continue to minimize and restrict the black women who fought hard to give THEM freedom and arrogantly dismiss it as if it never occurred. Still today, I don't understand why they consistently overlook this obvious milestone. But!

Last edited by Kocolicious

NOI is seeking a way to ennoble folks and connect  with Islam at large. I’m no expert but can question  NOI’s ties or support  with Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir because it looks like we have persisting enslavement of Africans in Sudan. Jews aside, does Min. Farrakhan outright condemn this atrocity? 

 

If you are genuinely seeking the truth then take the time to understand what's going on and what respective parties positions actually are and not what you think they are.   The NOI is not "tied" to the Sudanese President has repeated like condemned all manners of violence and injustice all over Africa. 

 

What the NOI (and well informed groups, institutions and individuals of various backgrounds) does NOT do is play into sensationalist claims that are repeated by individuals who have no interest in the subject or are seeking to create an atmosphere where the situation can be further exploited (ie involving the UN under R2P).

 

This assumes that you're genuine in your quest for truth, and not a person posting material to continue a cloud of suspicion.   Invoking a long DEBUNKED myth about Malcolm X doesn't help your case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

Brotha Jalil wrote: Something was left unsaid. I’ve read NOI material for years and once believed Min. Farakkhan’s claims that that Jews and not Arabs were most heavily involved in the Atlantic slave trade. His claim that 3 out of 4 slave holders were Jews was a first red flag. Down South? That’s when I began to suspect that he was a bigot playing up to Muslims in the MENA region. How many black folks have Jewish last names from Massa? No, these are English and Irish names. We know that’s what the X is about. Getting rid of those cursed names is right. Let’s be honest. Min. Farrakhan’s claims that 3 out of 4 plantation owners were Jews is a lie. Whoopi "Goldberg", and her name is for stage, is one of the few Jewish surnames. It is known that Arabs have been in the slave trade for 1400 years. Min Farrakhan tries too hard to change facts and by this he makes himself a smaller man. It is why he is not a historically great man. Malcolm X was going in the direction of greatness. Farrakhan’s response in the video is weak, over done. And I’m not defending the ADL, treatment of Palestinians in Israel or worked up over Kanye’s rap, . Mandela was a transcendent unifier.

I just LOVE a thinking man! I agree with you my brotha. The Jews did participate in slavery but in the beginning primarily in the eastern/central portion of Europe which includes Spain and Portugal. Their participation in white slavery is probably one of the many reasons why Jews started being persecuted and subsequently exiled from Europe. They got into the slavery of Africans during the onset of the Atlantic Slave Trade. However, it is not clear to me how much their involvement cuz of the resentment from both the Arabs and Europeans against them due for the most part of the fact Jews had been selling white christians as slaves since the 4th and 5th century AD. I also believe that their involvement occurred after the collapse of the Roman Empire and took over slaving from the Romans. I don't remember actually the final breakdown to this but I do know that Arabs and Europeans alike used their religious dogma to justify slavery as a form of "saving" uncivilized heathens in Africa[and is why I don't believe in any of the main religious books: the Bible, The Quran and The Talmund]. The true reason is they did it for MONEY and POWER.

And many of the Jews who took part of the Atlantic Slave Trade disguised themselves as christians or converts because of the hostility developed because of their involvement of enslaving Europeans. Only cuz at that time, you could not distinquish where the whites derived in the Europe spectrum. Were they peasants, serfs, what? And many times, christian slaves were thrown into the mix and is why the resentment of Jews in Europe increased where genocides of them occurred across the continent. I am sure that Jews participated in all areas of slavery i.e. of whitefolks as well as Africans. But their greed [slaves, mineral resources etc] caused the friction from both Arabs and Europeans. I don't believe that Jews are hated because of their betrayal to Jesus in the bible. I believe it had a lot to do with MONEY and slave participation. Which was what caused most disagreements back then.

 

And for me? I really see the Jews not only as thieves of African chattel but as thieves of African culture. Cuz it is my belief that Jews stole the Hebrew identity of Africans [Ethiopia] and called it their own solely BECAUSE they didn't have a true identity to point to. So they took it from the stolen African strolls and created their own legacy from it. Thus the creation of the Talmud and from there? The creation of the Bible and the Qu'ran. And because of their ability to be merchants which included slavery and ownership of diamond mines, land etc.from Africa that is why worldwide Jews is seen as dirty, shifty, sneaky, rat people who feed of other folks social heredity. Jews were massa and arabs competition!

See? The jews [undercapped for a reason] could blend in back then and be slave traders cuz they look both white and semitic[sp]. That was their edge to be a part of the human gold. However, white folks KNOW why they hate jews. And arabs know why they hate Jews. It has nothing to do with biblical stories. Cuz really no one is telling the REAL story of the relationship among the three. But all you have to do is look at history and it is right there. Not in the bible. Not in the Qu'ran. Not in the Talmund. But in world HISTORY! Because what I am saying is so outside the box? It is totally rejected by male scholars. However, doesn't mean it isn't the truth but just that male dominate scholars[who lie all the time about history] reject the notion is all cuz they have control over what is written. But time and time again they have been exposed as liars especially back in the piltdown man days AND also when many of them large thinkers thought the world was flat. So..

Malcolm was going in that direction after he came back from Mecca. He defended his own first but he began to see the big picture. That’s the One.

I agree again. Malcolm was on his way baby. In Mecca, he was blown away to see men with the bluest eyes brothers to men with the brownest eyes. He saw diversity in religious unity. But this evolution was soon to be short lived. Cuz he was at the tip of discovering the REAL truth about African slavery on both sides...well on three sides. But! He was stopped for a reason. Cuz why? He was a genius. And he was gonna expose the real deal behind massa, the arabs and the jews involvement in Africa! And alllllllll three couldn't let that happen. But he was definitely our messiah and it probably was a divine reason from the universe why he was given 5 daughters and no sons. Cuz for the first time in history thus far? A Black MAN was about to be the savior for all black people in America which rapture included women and children as a human/family unit not as chattel or sexual servants.

Side note: When I was teaching in the juvenile detentions a thousand years ago, I used Malcolm X's story as a model to redefine worth to misguided black youths. I used to give away hundreds of his books [The Autobiography of Malcolm X] to these students to inspire them and let them KNOW visually that you can do and be ANYTHING you want if you believe in yourself. Malcolm did. He self-taught himself and consequently became one of the greatest speakers in the world. But that achievement clearly was a threat to ALL three cultures that had historically enslaved us. So Malcolm was stopped not by massa but his OWN people[probably appointed by the three]-which shows how brainwashed some black men still were back then. Anyway, you have a good point my brotha. And as a girl, I never understood why some brothers who converted to Islam in these united states used that conversion to continue to minimize and restrict the black women who fought hard to give THEM freedom and arrogantly dismiss it as if it never occurred. Still today, I don't understand why they consistently overlook this obvious milestone. But!

I read The Autobiography of Malcolm X while mis-adventuring across Algeria and was deeply moved by the book. About the Jews owning slaves near Poland - those are called  “Slavic” people, slaves! Never connected those dots.

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

NOI is seeking a way to ennoble folks and connect  with Islam at large. I’m no expert but can question  NOI’s ties or support  with Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir because it looks like we have persisting enslavement of Africans in Sudan. Jews aside, does Min. Farrakhan outright condemn this atrocity? 

 

If you are genuinely seeking the truth then take the time to understand what's going on and what respective parties positions actually are and not what you think they are.   The NOI is not "tied" to the Sudanese President has repeated like condemned all manners of violence and injustice all over Africa. 

 

What the NOI (and well informed groups, institutions and individuals of various backgrounds) does NOT do is play into sensationalist claims that are repeated by individuals who have no interest in the subject or are seeking to create an atmosphere where the situation can be further exploited (ie involving the UN under R2P).

 

This assumes that you're genuine in your quest for truth, and not a person posting material to continue a cloud of suspicion.   Invoking a long DEBUNKED myth about Malcolm X doesn't help your case.

..............................................................................

Not sure what the “DEBUNKED” myth of Malcolm X is.  Saying the book is phony?

 

I am never going to go along with any politically organized religion. I did a little research and came across a video where Min. Farrakhan is bellowing about “The Synagogue of Satan” and a book he published called The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews”. It’s been called bogus  by esteemed black scholars.

 

In case you are genuinely concerned with truth, Min. Farrakhan is never going to use a phrase like “The Mosque of Satan” It’s obvious. His vision is to connect NOI with Islam at large and maybe he thinks that pointing fingers at a Jewish “Satan” will help that cause.  Wrong turn to take.  

 

All political religious figures are bogus as I see it. Sheikh Nasrullah declared children who died from Hezbollah’s friendly fire as martyrs to Allah. My little view is those children died as martyrs to man’s imperfection. A genuine religious figure would say that children on all sides are martyrs to man’s imperfection. Allah’s got nothing to do with it. Nor Jehovah. Nor Jesus and so forth. Feel free to DEBUNK.

 

My point is also not to defend abuses by the Israelis or Jews or those rabbis  who played a minor (not as big as they imagine) role in the civil rights movement. Then again how many Imams were marching in Selma? “Satan”?

 

Malcolm was a great being. If you want to DEBUNK, go ahead.

 

 

 

Now you are randomly making assertions that have nothing to do with anything I've posted or any position the NOI has taken.  The myth of Malcolm isn't something I invented, it is a phrased used by people who knew Malcolm personally that describes what people associate with Malcolm used by Muslim, non Muslim, members of the NOI and non members alike.

 

It’s been called bogus  by esteemed black scholars.

 

People can and do characterize books, reports, viewpoints etc however they want (truthfully or untruthfully).  However, there is an academic standard in responding, replying or rebutting such a work.  Of course what these same characterizations fail to include is that both volumes are compilations  of material from scholarly jewish sources.  To actually impeach the work, you need to dig into the material presented NOT any characterization of the material.   Anything short of that, and the author of the characterization can be charged with ignorance (by misrepresenting a work and material they have no knowledge of) or deception (intentionally misrepresenting a work to the public).

 

So the question is which "esteemed Black scholars" have actually read and reviewed the book and what is their academic assessment of it.

 

Like it or not, the thesis of SRBL vols 1 & 2 has been validated directly and indirectly by scholarly inquiry. To take it a step further there are Jewish publications that have piggy backed on the thesis of both SRBJ books....that is, the popular narrative of Jewish people/community being large and/or substantive supporters of the abolition movement being false (historically inaccurate to say the least).  JSTOR is your friend.

 

In case you are genuinely concerned with truth, Min. Farrakhan is never going to use a phrase like “The Mosque of Satan” It’s obvious. His vision is to connect NOI with Islam at large and maybe he thinks that pointing fingers at a Jewish “Satan” will help that cause.  Wrong turn to take. 

 

 

The phrase Synagogue of Satan is not a NOI invention but a passage in scripture.  And again, your attempt to suggest that the NOI has either no criticism of the larger Muslim society is uninformed, incorrect.  None of this is difficult to grasp unless you're determined NOT to grasp or you're not interested in knowing the truth of the NOI (or any other groups) position.

 

All political religious figures are bogus as I see it.

 

SMH...does this NOT include Malcolm X? 

 

Your prejudges clouds both the thinking and reasoning on these matters.

 

Last edited by Muhammad Cipher
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

 

Now you are randomly making assertions that have nothing to do with anything I've posted or any position the NOI has taken.  The myth of Malcolm isn't something I invented, it is a phrased used by people who knew Malcolm personally that describes what people associate with Malcolm used by Muslim, non Muslim, members of the NOI and non members alike.

 

It’s been called bogus  by esteemed black scholars.

 

People can and do characterize books, reports, viewpoints etc however they want (truthfully or untruthfully).  However, there is an academic standard in responding, replying or rebutting such a work.  Of course what these same characterizations fail to include is that both volumes are compilations  of material from scholarly jewish sources.  To actually impeach the work, you need to dig into the material presented NOT any characterization of the material.   Anything short of that, and the author of the characterization can be charged with ignorance (by misrepresenting a work and material they have no knowledge of) or deception (intentionally misrepresenting a work to the public).

 

So the question is which "esteemed Black scholars" have actually read and reviewed the book and what is their academic assessment of it.

 

Like it or not, the thesis of SRBL vols 1 & 2 has been validated directly and indirectly by scholarly inquiry. To take it a step further there are Jewish publications that have piggy backed on the thesis of both SRBJ books....that is, the popular narrative of Jewish people/community being large and/or substantive supporters of the abolition movement being false (historically inaccurate to say the least).  JSTOR is your friend.

 

In case you are genuinely concerned with truth, Min. Farrakhan is never going to use a phrase like “The Mosque of Satan” It’s obvious. His vision is to connect NOI with Islam at large and maybe he thinks that pointing fingers at a Jewish “Satan” will help that cause.  Wrong turn to take. 

 

 

The phrase Synagogue of Satan is not a NOI invention but a passage in scripture.  And again, your attempt to suggest that the NOI has either no criticism of the larger Muslim society is uninformed, incorrect.  None of this is difficult to grasp unless you're determined NOT to grasp or you're not interested in knowing the truth of the NOI (or any other groups) position.

 

All political religious figures are bogus as I see it.

 

SMH...does this NOT include Malcolm X? 

 

Your prejudges clouds both the thinking and reasoning on these matters.

 

What you’re doing now is taking a wrong turn – taking a dead end- name calling - to say I can’t reason or think – because I don’t go along with what you believe. Understood. I like most of your posts. They’ve been instructive. But . . . 

 

If I was able think or had a concern for truth, I’d  rest my "case" with a quote by Cornel West who called black anti-Semitism "the bitter fruit of a profound self-destructive impulse, nurtured on the vines of hopelessness and concealed by empty gestures of black unity.”  You mean well and are very well studied  but, we don’t get to unity - no pretending- on the back of hatred. We’re all imperfect and can presume Malcolm X also was to some extent  but I think he finally understood the big picture.

Originally Posted by Jalil:

 

If I was able think or had a concern for truth, I’d  rest my "case" with a quote by Cornel West who called black anti-Semitism "the bitter fruit of a profound self-destructive impulse, nurtured on the vines of hopelessness and concealed by empty gestures of black unity.”  You mean well and are very well studied  but, we don’t get to unity - no pretending- on the back of hatred. We’re all imperfect and can presume Malcolm X also was to some extent  but I think he finally understood the big picture.

 

Interesting quote from Cornel West, who has also been accused of anti Semitic for not being afraid to be associated with the NOI (he is frequently a honored guest at events) and doesn't buy into media narratives.

 

I didn't use the term prejudges as a form of name calling, but an actual description (pre judging ) given your own statements concerning positions you're unfamiliar with  and reasons you give for them.

 

They all end at the same place although the reasoning cannot be supported.

 

We (Muslims) don't move on hatred.  In truth, these are subjects that do not occupy a great deal of time in the minds of Muslims.  However, when the issue is raised, we are taught to be thorough students. Every position is given its proper weight.

 

We don't believe those who benefit from systems of oppression on face value. 

Last edited by Muhammad Cipher
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by Jalil:

 

If I was able think or had a concern for truth, I’d  rest my "case" with a quote by Cornel West who called black anti-Semitism "the bitter fruit of a profound self-destructive impulse, nurtured on the vines of hopelessness and concealed by empty gestures of black unity.”  You mean well and are very well studied  but, we don’t get to unity - no pretending- on the back of hatred. We’re all imperfect and can presume Malcolm X also was to some extent  but I think he finally understood the big picture.

 

Interesting quote from Cornel West, who has also been accused of anti Semitic for not being afraid to be associated with the NOI (he is frequently a honored guest at events) and doesn't buy into media narratives.

 

I didn't use the term prejudges as a form of name calling, but an actual description (pre judging ) given your own statements concerning positions you're unfamiliar with  and reasons you give for them.

 

They all end at the same place although the reasoning cannot be supported.

 

We (Muslims) don't move on hatred.  In truth, these are subjects that do not occupy a great deal of time in the minds of Muslims.  However, when the issue is raised, we are taught to be thorough students. Every position is given its proper weight.

 

We don't believe those who benefit from systems of oppression on face value. 

.....................................................................................

 

You have your path. I’ve got mine. That’s OK.

 

What’s being talked about is one underdog group going after another. What’s spiritual about that? You’re the knowledgeable expert here. Since you know the most,  who exactly  is  “Alan Hamet” who Min. Farrakhan said  wrote “The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews”? I have no idea. Who is he? Where did he come from? Is this a scholar or a made up person?

 

Cornel West is not a hater.  Here’s the main point”  "We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality," Martin Luther King told us. "Whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly."  I am not as educated as you about your religion, but what’s better? Could be that Malcolm and Martin came to the same place and  that is why they were assassinated.  When you go to that level, you threaten the divisive order of haters.

 

You said that Muslims don’t  move on hatred. Let’s not pretend. Muslims are people and involved with divisive hatred  like other humans. My business partners are Sunnis and you know how much murderous bile there is between the Sunnis and Shiites. Scary. I never talk about my Sufi  leanings with them. To be honest, I can’t subscribe to either. That’s just me. It works for others. I know that and must respect that too.  My own feeling  is that religions usually end up in idol worship. If nothing else, they end up worshipping themselves and not what their prophets pointed to: GOD.  That’s why when our prophets moved toward the One, they got mortally hit. All I can say.

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