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The BET Comedy awards when Adele Givens said something to the effect of "...people of New Orleans, don't let Haliburton buy your property for $30 or $40 thousand..."?

For all those who are conspircy theorists here is one for you: I have heard that there is a vast natural gas reserve underneath the 9th ward in N.O. and that that is the reason for the lack of action on the part of the govt.

ETA: There are supposedly people who dynamited the levees and they were all killed... The reports of people shooting at helicopters were based on the idea that they (the shooters) witnessed the destruction pf the levees and that they thought that the helicopters were coming to do more harm...

Any thoughts?

 

 

Peace,

 

AudioGuy

 

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quote:
For all those who are conspircy theorists here is one for you: I have heard that there is a vast natural gas reserve underneath the 9th ward in N.O. and that that is the reason for the lack of action on the part of the govt



Audio Guy:

THE UNITED STATES WILL PAY MORE THAN $200 BILLION FOR HURRICANE RELIEF. CAN YOU SHOW ME THAT THE 9TH WARD HAS THIS MUCH NATURAL GAS TO JUSTIFY THIS?

NOW THAT YOU KNOW THE NATURAL GAS IS STOLEN WILL YOU DISCONTINUE YOUR USE OF THIS AS A FUEL SOURCE?

Could you tell us the SIZE of the 9th ward to have it be an EXCLUSIVE NATURAL GAS FIELD that is not the case in the other parts of the city?

Lastly: during the debate with the Alaskan Wildlife Preserve folks talked about the ability to do HORIZONTAL DRILLING. Can you tell me how it is not possible to get to any gas under the 9th Ward without being ATOP the 9th Ward?
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

THE UNITED STATES WILL PAY MORE THAN $200 BILLION FOR HURRICANE RELIEF. CAN YOU SHOW ME THAT THE 9TH WARD HAS THIS MUCH NATURAL GAS TO JUSTIFY THIS?


CF - as you know - that is not an accurate amount that must be recovered. Halliburton and others are being awarded those contracts and Dick Cheney and others are getting FAT! To be precise, an accurate break-even number is whatever is spent minus whatever can be recovered vis-a-vis gas reserves minus the revenue/profits to those who participate in the clean-up - minus any other incremental value that is created from the redevelopment of the area etc. When it's all said and done, some (connected to Bush no doubt) will get fat - TER through this tragedy.

quote:
NOW THAT YOU KNOW THE NATURAL GAS IS STOLEN WILL YOU DISCONTINUE YOUR USE OF THIS AS A FUEL SOURCE?


NOW THAT YOU KNOW THAT YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE BOGUS WILL YOU DISCONTINUE YOUR USE OF THEM? Confused
quote:
THE UNITED STATES WILL PAY MORE THAN $200 BILLION FOR HURRICANE RELIEF. CAN YOU SHOW ME THAT THE 9TH WARD HAS THIS MUCH NATURAL GAS TO JUSTIFY THIS
by CF

CF, your missing a huge point ... "THE UNITED STATES WILL PAY ..." Haliburton hasn't paid a coin to gain control of however much Natural Gas may be there.

How is this any different from the USD government spending 100's of Billions to fight this War on Terror, effectively giving Haliburton control over Iraq's oil reserves?

But the fact is if Haliburton wanted the land, they wouldn't have to spend the $40K. The recent Supreme Court decision on Eminent Domain would allow such a "private taking" for a fair market price. BTW, what the FMV for a toxic waste bog?

quote:
Lastly: during the debate with the Alaskan Wildlife Preserve folks talked about the ability to do HORIZONTAL DRILLING. Can you tell me how it is not possible to get to any gas under the 9th Ward without being ATOP the 9th Ward?


Horizontal drilling is way more expensive than vertical.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
I heard/read that explosive residue was found on the levees.


Where did you see and hear that, the only place that I have seem it is here and a report about Minister Farrakan talking about it.

It would seem to me a story about the levee being blown up on purpose would be a big story that would be reported everywhere. It would be the kind of story that even Congressional lawmakers would sit up and pay attention to.
quote:
Halliburton and others are being awarded those contracts and Dick Cheney and others are getting FAT!



Simply AMAZING. He says that MY ARGUMENTS ARE BOGUS. Now I see the frame of reference that I am dealing with.

I will locate the audio from yesterday's Market Place which details the real deal about these "No Bid Contracts". It will be interesting to see how your CONSPIRACY THEORIES are transformed when you have FACT in front of you. Stay tuned.
quote:
It would seem to me a story about the levee being blown up on purpose would be a big story that would be reported everywhere. It would be the kind of story that even Congressional lawmakers would sit up and pay attention to.


Ummm, you mean like the coverage of "What this administration knew and when it knew it" regarding planes flown into two towers and the coverage of the plane that hit the pentagon, but left no "plane wreckage?"
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

quote:
Halliburton and others are being awarded those contracts and Dick Cheney and others are getting FAT!


Simply AMAZING. He says that MY ARGUMENTS ARE BOGUS. Now I see the frame of reference that I am dealing with.


Katrina contracts worth billions raise worries about waste


By Seattle Times news services

WASHINGTON "” Lawmakers who approved more than $60 billion to help rebuild the Gulf Coast after Hurricane Katrina said yesterday there are worrisome signs of wasteful spending.

Citing no-bid contracts and relaxation of government spending rules to speed the flow of money to the stricken area, House members said government auditors need to be aggressive in their oversight.

"I fear that the days are soon upon us where we will see daily reports of exotic, unnecessary and grossly overpriced purchases of goods and services under the guise of providing hurricane relief and recovery," Rep. Jay Inslee, D-Wash., said at a House Energy and Commerce subcommittee hearing.

Sens. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., and Barack Obama, D-Ill., raised concerns Tuesday about a $236 million deal with Carnival Cruise Lines to provide temporary housing on the Mississippi River and off the Gulf Coast.

Inslee said the per-person cost was $1,275 a week, nearly twice the typical cost of a weeklong cruise for a normal passenger.

Richard Skinner, inspector general for the Department of Homeland Security, said the Carnival deal is "something that concerns us as well" and his office would look into it. He said he has assigned 60 auditors and investigators to review Katrina contracts and his office will need more money to complete the task.

The New York Times reported this week that more than 80 percent of the $1.5 billion in contracts signed by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to clean up were awarded without bidding or with limited competition.

The newspaper, citing government records, said more than 15 contracts exceed $100 million, including five of $500 million or more. Most were for clearing trees, homes and cars; purchasing mobile homes; or providing trucks, ships, buses and planes.

Already, The New York Times reported, questions have been raised about the political connections of two contractors "” The Shaw Group and Kellogg, Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton "” that have been represented by lobbyist Joe Allbaugh, President Bush's former campaign manager and former head of FEMA.

Bills have come in for deals that apparently were clinched with a handshake, with no documentation to back them up, Skinner told the newspaper.

Some industry and government officials questioned the costs of debris-removal contracts, saying the Army Corps of Engineers had allowed a rate that was too high, the newspaper said.

Congressional investigators also are looking into the $568 million awarded to AshBritt, a Pompano Beach, Fla., company that was a client of the former lobbying firm of Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, the newspaper reported.

The newspaper said some businesses awarded large contracts have records of performing similar work, but they also have had problems. CH2M Hill and Fluor, two engineering companies awarded a total of $250 million in contracts, previously were cited by regulators for safety violations at a weapons-plant cleanup.

Bechtel, awarded a contract that could be worth $100 million, is under scrutiny for its oversight of the "Big Dig" construction project in Boston, The New York Times reported.

Kellogg, Brown & Root, given $60 million in contracts, was rebuked by federal auditors for unsubstantiated billing from the Iraq reconstruction and criticized for bills such as $100-a-bag laundry service. All the companies have defended their performance.

Congress has approved more than $62 billion in Katrina aid. Inspectors general from Homeland Security, the Pentagon and other agencies appeared before the oversight subcommittee yesterday to describe efforts to ensure the money is spent wisely.

They announced several new audits intended to stem fraud, including aggressive review of no-bid contracts and government credit-card spending. The limit on credit-card purchases for Katrina-related items was increased from $2,500 to $250,000.

"The abuses and failures we've seen in Iraq; we don't want to duplicate those here at home," Inslee said, referring to cases of questionable costs by firms with ties to the White House, such as Halliburton.

Inslee said he would call for creation of a chief financial officer with responsibility for watching overall spending related to Katrina. Other recent proposals include a special inspector-general's office, a bipartisan anti-fraud commission and expansion of responsibilities of the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction to include the Gulf Coast.

Rep. Charles Pickering Jr., R-Miss., said at the hearing that he wants to know why such a large number of those new contracts are going to companies from outside the region where Katrina struck.

"This is a devastated area trying to get people back to work, working with companies from all over the country. But not their own companies," Pickering said. "As you can imagine, that creates a lot of frustration."

Rep. Michael Burgess, R-Texas, questioned FEMA's decision to order 100,000 trailers for emergency housing in the aftermath of the storm. One contract was awarded to Bechtel, which has strong ties to the Bush administration, in an open-ended deal whose cost has yet to be set.

Skinner said Homeland Security had stopped delivering new trailers and vigorously would review contracts that may have been awarded improperly based on political connections.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said Tuesday that contracts found to be inappropriate could be renegotiated. Skinner said yesterday some contracts could be terminated.

The Energy Department's inspector general, Gregory Friedman, said the agency planned to review deals struck with companies such as BP and Marathon Oil, to borrow oil after Hurricane Katrina disrupted supplies. The government had loaned refineries some 13.2 million barrels of crude and separately sold an additional 11 million barrels from the government's petroleum reserve.

Compiled from The Associated Press, Reuters, The Washington Post and USA Today
"KATRINA RECONSTRUCTION SUMMIT" SPONSORED BY HALLIBURTON

Halliburton already cashing in
on overpriced no-bid contracts

WASHINGTON -- A "Katrina Reconstruction Summit," hosted by Sen. Mel Martinez (R-Fla.) and sponsored by Halliburton, among others, brought some 200 lobbyists, corporate representatives and government staffers to a room overlooking the Capitol for a five-hour conference that included time for a "networking break" and advice on "opportunities for private sector involvement."

link
U.S. govt to review emergency contracts after Katrina

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:01 AM BST


MIAMI (Reuters) - The federal government will thoroughly review all emergency contracts handed out in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said on Tuesday in response to criticism.

The inquiry follows a public outcry over contracts awarded without the open competitive bidding processes typical of government contracts.

"No-bid contracts are simply gifts," Rev. Jesse Jackson of the Rainbow Coalition told Reuters after a New Orleans city council meeting.

Such contractors are the equivalent of "white-collar looters," Jackson said.

At least two members of Congress -- one Democrat and one Republican -- have questioned a $192 million contract with Carnival Cruise Lines to allow the Federal Emergency Management Agency to use three ships into early next year.

"As we move forward, we will be in a continuing process of re-evaluating contracts," Chertoff said on a visit to the National Hurricane Center in Miami.

"If there are contracts that turn out to be not properly cost-effective or inappropriate in some other way, we can redo the contracts. We can renegotiate those contracts."

Chertoff said his department, which oversees FEMA, asked its inspector general to aggressively examine past, present and future expenditures.

"We are going to go back and look at all of the issues, as well as continuing to look at the new contracts and make sure that we are getting the public the best bang for the public buck that is being spent," he said.

Usually, companies bid for government contracts to ensure the best value, but emergency situations allow for no-bid contracts.

"When you are dealing with literally saving lives and making sure people can be fed and have water and have a place of shelter, those are urgent needs that cannot be addressed in a slow process," Chertoff said.
September 27, 2005

The Times

Sleaze row over clean-up deals
From Tim Reid in Washington


AN INVESTIGATION has begun into allegations that lucrative Hurricane Katrina rebuilding contracts have been awarded to companies with ties to the White House and the Republican Party.

The inspector-general of the Department of Homeland Security said yesterday that he was investigating how several companies had been awarded contracts without any competitive tender process, after Congress approved $62.5 billion (£35.2 billion) for emergency relief and rebuilding work.

It emerged yesterday that the largest contract so far went to a Florida company with ties to the Republican Governor of Mississippi. AshBritt, which is being paid $568 million to clean up debris, paid about $40,000 in the first half of this year to Barbour Griffith & Rogers, the Washington lobbying company co-founded by Haley Barbour, the Governor, who is also a former chairman of the Republican National Committee. More than 80 per cent of the $1.5 billion of contracts already signed were awarded without bidding or under limited competition, according to The New York Times. Richard Skinner, the inspector-general of the Department of Homeland Security, said: "We are very apprehensive about what we are seeing."

Another company, the Shaw Group, was awarded two $100 million, non-competitive contracts. The company is a client of the lobbyist Joe Allbaugh, the former head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency and President Bush's campaign manager in the 2000 election. Mr Allbaugh denies any involvement in awarding the contracts.

Fluor Corporation of California, and Bechtel National Inc, significant donors to the Republicans, have also been awarded contracts to provide temporary housing.

Kellogg Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton, the company formerly run by Dick Cheney, the Vice-President, is doing repairs at Gulf Coast naval facilities, although much of that stems from a more general Pentagon contract awarded last year.

Defenders of AshBritt's contract say that the company has cleaned hurricane debris for the federal Government before.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
quote:
Halliburton and others are being awarded those contracts and Dick Cheney and others are getting FAT!



Simply AMAZING. He says that MY ARGUMENTS ARE BOGUS. Now I see the frame of reference that I am dealing with.

I will locate the audio from yesterday's Market Place which details the real deal about these "No Bid Contracts". It will be interesting to see how your CONSPIRACY THEORIES are transformed when you have FACT in front of you. Stay tuned.


Facts huh? lol
MBM:

Please listen to the AUDIO REPORT and then respond:

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2005/09/28/PM200509287.html

Halliburton has been receiving these "bundled contracts" and "no-bid contracts" REGARDLESS of the Administration IN office. How were these other administrations benefiting from Halliburton's efforts since this is the driving force this time?

Who is the chairman of Shaw Industries, a company who has received some NO BID CONTRACT work on the Gulf Coast?
I didn't see this show, but I have heard these rumors and have read information stating this as well.

I wouldn't put anything past this government, especially, with America's power now being in the hands of the most racist and finacially rutheless administration in decades.

There has to be some reason that people were allowed to thirst and starve to death and die from lack of medication and from the elements right here in America, the most powerful nation in the world; there has to be some reason that it initially they were being left to die (until the media would not leave the subject alone-which is something that they also tried to do).

I hope there is nothing that the government (at least this administration/Bush) wants in Detroit, Atlanta, Chicago, . . . if so, we should look forward to more 'disasters' to happen in the future.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
quote:
It would seem to me a story about the levee being blown up on purpose would be a big story that would be reported everywhere. It would be the kind of story that even Congressional lawmakers would sit up and pay attention to.


Ummm, you mean like the coverage of "What this administration knew and when it knew it" regarding planes flown into two towers and the coverage of the plane that hit the pentagon, but left no "plane wreckage?"


No what I mean is knowing fact from fiction.
quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:

quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
I heard/read that explosive residue was found on the levees.


Where did you see and hear that, the only place that I have seem it is here and a report about Minister Farrakan talking about it.

It would seem to me a story about the levee being blown up on purpose would be a big story that would be reported everywhere. It would be the kind of story that even Congressional lawmakers would sit up and pay attention to.


EXPLOSIVE RESIDUE FOUND ON FAILED LEVEE DEBRIS!

Ruptured New Orleans Levee had help failing
By: Hal Turner September 9, 2005 3:36 PM EDT

NOTE: This story has been UPDATED as of Saturday, September 10, 2005 @ 11:40 PM EDT The updated info is incorporated into the story and appears in bold type

SECOND UPDATE: Monday Sept. 12, 2005 @ 8:23 AM ABC News Video with Ear Witness to Explosions and states emphatically "They blew this levee" Click the link below the story


New Orleans, LA -- Divers inspecting the ruptured levee walls surrounding New Orleans found something that piqued their interest: Burn marks on underwater debris chunks from the broken levee wall!

One diver, a member of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, saw the burn marks and knew immediately what caused them. When he surfaced and showed the evidence to his superior, the on-site Coordinator for FEMA stepped-in and said "You are not here to conduct an investigation as to why this rupture occurred, but only to determine how best to close it." The FEMA coordinator then threw the evidence back into the water and said "You will tell no one about this."

At that point, the diver went back down to do more inspection of the levee. On the second dive, he secreted a small chunk of the debris inside his wet suit and later arranged for it to be sent to trusted military friends at a The U.S. Army Forensic Laboratory at Fort Gillem, Georgia for testing.

According to well placed sources, a military forensic specialist determined the burn marks on the cement chunks did, in fact, come from high explosives. The source, speaking on condition of anonymity said "We found traces of boron-enhanced fluoronitramino explosives as well as PBXN-111 embedded in the debris. This would indicate at least two separate types of explosive devices."

The levee ruptures in New Orleans did not take place during Hurricane Katrina, but rather a day after the hurricane struck. Several residents of New Orleans and many Emergency Workers reported hearing what sounded like large, muffled explosions from the area of the levee, but those were initially discounted as gas explosions from homes with leaking gas lines.

If these allegations prove true, the ruptured levee which flooded New Orleans was a deliberate act of mass destruction perpetrated by someone with access to military-grade UNDERWATER high explosives.

link
So true. I have yet to hear of any eye witnesses to the "plane" hitting the pentagon. I haven't even seen or heard of survilence photos of a "plane" hitting the pentagon. And, I'm sure most people know that one cannot get within a thousand yards of any governmental office in DC, including the pentagon, and not be recorded on film. Hell, JD, you should know this ... you can't even get within a thousand feet of any military base without being filmed.
My brief reading of some of the "eye-witness accounts" leaves me doubting. You mean to tell me that people, on the ground, that close to a object steaking toward the Pentagon had the presence of mind to note the airline of the plane? bs Talk to any traffic cop or crime scene investigator...ask how many hit-skip victims and/or witnesses can accurately identify the make and/or model of the vehicle in a collision. The answer: less than 20%. And, cars are something that we are normally on the lookout for. The mind is a funny thing. It routinely substitutes what it expects for what it actually records. People don't expect to see something fly into buildings; so with the continious coverage of planes hitting the towers, it is reasonable to believe that the mind would say, "something hit that building ... I see it left a big hole ... I see planes hitting those buildings ... Those planes left big holes ... I must have seen a plane hit this building."
It's difficult for us to note minute details of vehicles or people because we see them up-close all the time and we don't typically think they are things we need to be paying close attention to until after a traumatic event/crime has occured. You're much more likely to recall more details about something completely out of the ordinary (like a plane with a distinct design roaring closely behind you on the highway), so I don't think it's entirely crap that some of them can recall this. A dog runs into your house, bites your child and runs out. An armadillo runs into your house, bites your child and runs out. Which one do you think you would recall more vividly? Big Grin

The Snopes article does a much better job though of debunking the myth point-by-point.

Let it go, Kweli. Twas a plane. Razz
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
It's difficult for us to note minute details of vehicles or people because we see them up-close all the time and we don't typically think they are things we need to be paying close attention to until after a traumatic event/crime has occured. You're much more likely to recall more details about something completely out of the ordinary (like a plane with a distinct design roaring closely behind you on the highway), so I don't think it's entirely crap that some of them can recall this. A dog runs into your house, bites your child and runs out. An armadillo runs into your house, bites your child and runs out. Which one do you think you would recall more vividly? Big Grin

The Snopes article does a much better job though of debunking the myth point-by-point.

Let it go, Kweli. Twas a plane. Razz


Actually, Frenchy, the opposite is true.

A dog runs into your house, bites your child and runs out. An armadillo runs into your house, bites your child and runs out. Which one do you think you would recall more vividly? Big Grin

Actually, in the dog scenerio, we would recall a dog and might be able to describe it. And your right...because we expect dogs to bite.

However, our minds would no doubt reject the armadillo scenerio, because it is out of the ordinary, and allow us to recall that something ran into the house and bit my child. Then, our reason would kick in and say, "it must have been a dog" especially, if you've never seen an armadillo.

I'd be more willing to accept the plane scenerio, if the photos [after the fact] had shown identifiable plane parts...or survilence cameras had shown a plane.

I'm just saying...
Okay Kweli, armadillos and dogs aside (though I still think you're dead ass wrong kiss),

quote:
I'd be more willing to accept the plane scenerio, if the photos [after the fact] had shown identifiable plane parts...or survilence cameras had shown a plane.


From the Snopes article:

You'll recall from the discussions above that the hijacked airliner did not "only hit the ground floor of the Pentagon's first ring" "” it struck the Pentagon between the first and second floors and blasted all the way through to the third ring. Because the plane disappeared into the building's interior after penetrating the outer ring, it was not visible in photographs taken from outside the Pentagon. Moreover, since the airliner was full of jet fuel and was flown into thick, reinforced concrete walls at high speed, exploding in a fireball, any pieces of wreckage large enough to be identifiable in after-the-fact photographs taken from a few hundred feet away burned up in the intense fire that followed the crash (just as the planes flown into the World Trade Center towers burned up, and the intensity of their jet-fuel fires caused both towers to collapse).

Small pieces of airplane debris were plainly visible on the Pentagon lawn in other photographs, however, such as the one below:


First, the article doesn't state that everything burned up in the crash. It reads "any pieces of wreckage large enough to be identifiable in after-the-fact photographs taken from a few hundred feet away burned up in the intense fire that followed the crash."

Second, directly above your comments, you will see photographic evidence that not everything burned up. The debris found below the WTC towers was of a similar quality (there's a particularly popular photo of 2 or 3 windows on the ground). Most of what was left of the plane was embedded inside the building, as the plane went through three rings of the building. There are pictures of portions of the plane inside the building. You can find those pictures along with an explanation of the physics behind the crash, what exactly was left behind, detailed information on how the physical charachteristics of the plane match up with the damage to the building, etc on this site:
Above Top Secret - 9/11 Pentagon Crash.

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