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quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
To the sistas who want to know when I will stand with you... I ask when are you going to stand with me?

Instead of the * preacher/minister * or the pimp or the homeboy or the 'soldier'/ruffneck or the doctor or the lawyer or the man with the bucks????

When are you going to stand with me??????


Most of the sistas I know that want to know when the men will stand with them have always stood by the men, that is why they are asking the question. The average blu-coolar guy is a rare find now-a-days.

Come now, we must admit that the sisters statistically are not the one's doing the running under any circumstances.

But I do have issues with sisters not fighting against the prison industrial complex(and the oppression and exploitation that makes it viable) in this country when that is what is messing up most of our men, removing them from the home, and institutioalizing them psychologically.



OA, I'm alright with you... And you may be correct as concerns the statistics... but in my own personal struggle, statistics and what everybody else is doing really don't matter very much... I know what I'VE GONE THROUGH... and I know it intimately... and based on what I'VE GONE THROUGH, the sistas aren't down with me... so I don't appreciate being told that I need to be down with sistas or else there's something wrong with me...

They may be standing by some other brother and having somebody else's babies... but it was NOT me....


I didn't even date ANYONE until I was 19 because where I grew up the brothers refused to date sisters. If I judged Africkkkan men born in Amerikkka on my dating experiences alone I would run and hide rather than stand by them, but I know that it is about more than just 'me'. My whole objective is wether something in my life is counterproductive to liberation.


and to explain the basics to BV(I'm starting to see more confusion than just the name)

Baby, black women have been subjected to the White beauty standard for years,(and many brothers have bought into it) just like my hair is a political statement, my interpersonal relationships are also a political statement. How much does one love their people if they don't choose to make a family life with their people?

Women are the mothers of civilization. How is a White women going to bring up future generations of people that want to fight the white supremacist system(run by people that look like her). I know many people who have married/dated interracially and they are usually living in some poly anna world where they don't want to discuss race/class ect. White women don't even have to deal with these things because of their privalege in this society, so why would we even expect them to know how to discuss/fight against such things?

So therefore if there aren't socially/racially aware children, how will the struggle continue?



I hear you, OA... and I'm highly sympathetic to what you're saying... I probably agree with 95% of it ...

But, in all fairness, most black families aren't all that aware...

Most black families are not raising conscious black children..

Hell... most AMERICANS aren't conscious...

Where I live, all folks do is act a fool and go to their (very conservative Christian) churches... I have a hard time dating sistas here because the first thing they want to know is "what church do you go to?" and don't seem happy with the answer "none"...

I swear...I kid you not...
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Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Originally posted by Kai:

HonestBrother, when you feel compelled to disrespect black women, Just Shut the Fuck Up!!
Shut the Fuck Up...can you do that?

Kai

------------------

Nobody said this SHIT when it was Fabulous, or EbonyRose, or art_gurl getting disrespected...

Kai, I was just starting to like you ... but if you insist on being biased as you are to one in particular and then insult me by pretending that I "disrespect" all black women, then you can kiss my muthafuckin black ass...

And you shut the fuck up, you useless hypocrite...

------------------------

yeah

You know, you are absolutely right, HB. When Richardo had the audacity to disrespect me by saying I was FULL OF SHIT. . .mr. kai simply stated that Richardo had a point in regard to illegal immigrants but said NOTHING about the profanity Richardo used to get his point across. . .to me. . .a black woman.

Ms. Sandye (being the beautiful black woman that she is) was the only person to speak against Richardo's disrespect toward me.

I'd say you have a point, Honestbrother.
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
You know, you are absolutely right, HB. When Richardo had the audacity to disrespect me by saying I was FULL OF SHIT. . .mr. kai simply stated that Richardo had a point in regard to illegal immigrants but said NOTHING about the profanity Richardo used to get his point across. . .to me. . .a black woman.

Ms. Sandye (being the beautiful black woman that she is) was the only person to speak against Richardo's disrespect toward me.

I'd say you have a point, Honestbrother.


Indeed....

Speaking of brothers....Did any other brother..... come to your defense?



V
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fabulous:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Originally posted by Kai:

HonestBrother, when you feel compelled to disrespect black women, Just Shut the Fuck Up!!
Shut the Fuck Up...can you do that?

Kai

------------------

Nobody said this SHIT when it was Fabulous, or EbonyRose, or art_gurl getting disrespected...

Kai, I was just starting to like you ... but if you insist on being biased as you are to one in particular and then insult me by pretending that I "disrespect" all black women, then you can kiss my muthafuckin black ass...

And you shut the fuck up, you useless hypocrite...

------------------------

yeah

You know, you are absolutely right, HB. When Richardo had the audacity to disrespect me by saying I was FULL OF SHIT. . .mr. kai simply stated that Richardo had a point in regard to illegal immigrants but said NOTHING about the profanity Richardo used to get his point across. . .to me. . .a black woman.

Ms. Sandye (being the beautiful black woman that she is) was the only person to speak against Richardo's disrespect toward me.

I'd say you have a point, Honestbrother.[/QUOTE

Fabulous, I said on that thread thatI was with you, and that my gripe had nothing at all to do with an agreement with RicardoMath's position. You wouldn't hear that.

However, if you feel that I failed to defend you, well then, please accept my apology...

I am sorry..Okay??



Kai
Originally posted by virtue:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
You know, you are absolutely right, HB. When Richardo had the audacity to disrespect me by saying I was FULL OF SHIT. . .mr. kai simply stated that Richardo had a point in regard to illegal immigrants but said NOTHING about the profanity Richardo used to get his point across. . .to me. . .a black woman.

Ms. Sandye (being the beautiful black woman that she is) was the only person to speak against Richardo's disrespect toward me.

I'd say you have a point, Honestbrother.

------------------------

Indeed....

Speaking of brothers....Did any other brother..... come to your defense?


V


-------------------------

I don't know, I'd have to revisit the thread. . .but that particular discussion can be found in the political issues area (you can check yourself also, if you really wanna know).

But my point is though. . .there is definitely a bias here. . .

. . .and mr. kai should have said "sista" NOT "sistas."

Seems to me, as it relates to mr. kai, it's OK to insult 'some' black women here. . .Tell them they're FULL OF SHIT and this will be ignored (by mr.kai)

. . .so again, Honestbrother is exactly on point.
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:

you turn to find Your Sister.... bitter... worried.... and disappointed....

and you say....

my love for the women in that house..... has nothing to do with you.....

or does it BV?

does it?

Interesting how you went out of your way to make this so extremely personal. But, thank you for doing it, so I can point this out...

Since I actually have a sister, I can assure you that my romantic choices have absolutely zero effect on my love for my sister. They are, in fact, entirely separate things.

The exact same holds true for my people. My romantic choices have absolutely zero effect on my love for my people. They are, in fact, two entirely separate things.

Now, keep in mind... I've socialized with and dated all races of women, and I find them to much more alike than they are different. But, in all my years, I've have only successfully turned a Sister's head once. Now, in my estimation... I'm not what Black women are looking for. However, I don't hold that against them. I don't roll my eyes or suck my teeth in a Black women when I see them with White men. I don't feel any sort of betrayal. Their romantic choices don't effect me any more than mine effect them. They don't belong to me just because they are Black.

And... they are Black!!!

I don't question their "Blackness" just because they are with White men. I don't do it because I know it's stupid. Dating/marrying White people doesn't change the fact that they are Black, struggling under a system of White Supremacy. Nor does it change the fact that they will have Black children.

I'd like you take note of something right here. I never question anyone's "Blackness" for any reason. I find that behavior to be far more damaging and destructive to a Black person's and the Black community's sense of self and identity than any amount of IR dating could ever be.
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
I don't know, I'd have to revisit the thread. . .but that particular discussion can be found in the political issues area (you can check yourself also, if you really wanna know).


I was referring to your quote here:

quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:

Ms. Sandye (being the beautiful black woman that she is) was the only person to speak against Richardo's disrespect toward me.


You made a point of saying that the only person to come to your defense was Sandye.....

So I was simply curious..... since you made a point to bring up Kai..... if there were any other brothers you were upset with that didn't come to your defense...



quote:
But my point is though. . .there is definitely a bias here. . .

. . .and mr. kai should have said "sista" NOT "sistas."

Seems to me, as it relates to mr. kai, it's OK to insult 'some' black women here. . .Tell them their FULL OF SHIT and this will be ignored (by mr.kai)

. . .so again, Honestbrother is exactly on point.


Seems "bias" resides in many on this board.....


Peace to you,
V
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
I don't know, I'd have to revisit the thread. . .but that particular discussion can be found in the political issues area (you can check yourself also, if you really wanna know).


I was referring to your quote here:

quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:

Ms. Sandye (being the beautiful black woman that she is) was the only person to speak against Richardo's disrespect toward me.


You made a point of saying that the only person to come to your defense was Sandye.....

So I was simply curious..... since you made a point to bring up Kai..... if there were any other brothers you were upset with that didn't come to your defense...



quote:
But my point is though. . .there is definitely a bias here. . .

. . .and mr. kai should have said "sista" NOT "sistas."

Seems to me, as it relates to mr. kai, it's OK to insult 'some' black women here. . .Tell them their FULL OF SHIT and this will be ignored (by mr.kai)

. . .so again, Honestbrother is exactly on point.


Seems "bias" resides in many on this board.....


Peace to you,
V


Virtue, don't start in again... the other brothers who didn't come to FAB's defense ARE NOT ON THIS THREAD PREACHING TO FOLKS HOW TO TREAT BLACK WOMEN....

Now, ARE THEY??? bang
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:

you turn to find Your Sister.... bitter... worried.... and disappointed....

and you say....

my love for the women in that house..... has nothing to do with you.....

or does it BV?

does it?

Interesting how you went out of your way to make this so extremely personal. But, thank you for doing it, so I can point this out...

Since I actually have a sister, I can assure you that my romantic choices have absolutely zero effect on my love for my sister. They are, in fact, entirely separate things.

The exact same holds true for my people. My romantic choices have absolutely zero effect on my love for my people. They are, in fact, two entirely separate things.

Now, keep in mind... I've socialized with and dated all races of women, and I find them to much more alike than they are different. But, in all my years, I've have only successfully turned a Sister's head once. Now, in my estimation... I'm not what Black women are looking for. However, I don't hold that against them. I don't roll my eyes or suck my teeth in a Black women when I see them with White men. I don't feel any sort of betrayal. Their romantic choices don't effect me any more than mine effect them. They don't belong to me just because they are Black.

And... they are Black!!!

I don't question their "Blackness" just because they are with White men. I don't do it because I know it's stupid. Dating/marrying White people doesn't change the fact that they are Black, struggling under a system of White Supremacy. Nor does it change the fact that they will have Black children.

I'd like you take note of something right here. I never question anyone's "Blackness" for any reason. I find that behavior to be far more damaging and destructive to a Black person's and the Black community's sense of self and identity than any amount of IR dating could ever be.


I wrote that to make a point...

of which I expected a certain response...

of which you provided....

I'm sorry you missed the point of my post...

especially the symbolism of a Sister...

but....

it's okay...

this way we can end the dialogue......



Peace to you,

V
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Virtue, don't start in again... the other brothers who didn't come to FAB's defense ARE NOT ON THIS THREAD PREACHING TO FOLKS HOW TO TREAT BLACK WOMEN....


No...

some of the brothers who didn't come to her defense are cursing sisters to make a point...


V


You're a hypocrite to your very heart.... Roll Eyes

and I remember... this particular brother who has defended Fab on other occasions skipped that occasion because he was tired from dealing with Shango and really didn't want any more grief...
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Virtue, don't start in again... the other brothers who didn't come to FAB's defense ARE NOT ON THIS THREAD PREACHING TO FOLKS HOW TO TREAT BLACK WOMEN....


No...

some of the brothers who didn't come to her defense are cursing sisters to make a point...


V


You're a hypocrite to your very heart.... Roll Eyes



laugh
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Virtue, don't start in again... the other brothers who didn't come to FAB's defense ARE NOT ON THIS THREAD PREACHING TO FOLKS HOW TO TREAT BLACK WOMEN....


No...

some of the brothers who didn't come to her defense are cursing sisters to make a point...


V


You're a hypocrite to your very heart.... Roll Eyes



laugh



That's not a personal attack... that's an observation from dealing with you ... that's a personal deficiency you need to work on, my sista...
Originally posted by Kai:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Originally posted by Kai:

HonestBrother, when you feel compelled to disrespect black women, Just Shut the Fuck Up!!
Shut the Fuck Up...can you do that?

Kai

------------------

Nobody said this SHIT when it was Fabulous, or EbonyRose, or art_gurl getting disrespected...

Kai, I was just starting to like you ... but if you insist on being biased as you are to one in particular and then insult me by pretending that I "disrespect" all black women, then you can kiss my muthafuckin black ass...

And you shut the fuck up, you useless hypocrite...

------------------------

yeah

You know, you are absolutely right, HB. When Richardo had the audacity to disrespect me by saying I was FULL OF SHIT. . .mr. kai simply stated that Richardo had a point in regard to illegal immigrants but said NOTHING about the profanity Richardo used to get his point across. . .to me. . .a black woman.

Ms. Sandye (being the beautiful black woman that she is) was the only person to speak against Richardo's disrespect toward me.

I'd say you have a point, Honestbrother.

--------------------------

Fabulous, I said on that thread thatI was with you, and that my gripe had nothing at all to do with an agreement with RicardoMath's position. You wouldn't hear that.

------------------

Sure, you said you were with me, however, you said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to Richardo for "disrespectfully" saying I was full of shit (& his comment to me was totally unprovoked).

The issue being raised here (ie., your diatribe to Honestbrother)seems to be about the PROFANITY used (from what I can tell).

Apparently, you didn't appreciate the language Honestbrother used in his commentary to your sista (under the guise of "sistas"). . .although I'm not sure (I'd have to go back & look), if those comments were directed specifically to her.

However, Richardo directed HIS profanity "specifically" towards me. . .a black woman--that is my point.

I'm not referencing HIS position, my position or YOUR position. I'm not disputing your comment that you "were with me" (although actions speak louder than words).

I'm referencing Richardo's total disrespect towards me--disrespect that was UNCALLED for, as I did NOTHING to provoke him at the time.

Look. I'm not trying to bring up past history, however, YOU jumped down Honestbrother's throat for something YOU condoned (by your silence) not long ago. The only difference here (that I can see) is although I'm black, obviously I'm not your sista.

That's ALL I'm saying. It is VERY hypocritical, imo, to go off on Honestbrother for something you had no problem with coming from a white man.
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quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
and to explain the basics to BV(I'm starting to see more confusion than just the name)

You guys just can't help yourselves, can you? lol

quote:
How much does one love their people if they don't choose to make a family life with their people?

Black people don't have any choices there. Black people make Black babies.

quote:
How is a White women going to bring up future generations of people that want to fight the white supremacist system(run by people that look like her).

In the absence of a Black mother, that's what Black father's are for. Smile

quote:
I know many people who have married/dated interracially and they are usually living in some poly anna world where they don't want to discuss race/class ect.

That's interesting. I don't know any Black people like that.... just White folks. If that were universal, I could take it for granted. But, even if they are living in a "pollyanna world"... it seems to me that is what needs to be addressed.

quote:
White women don't even have to deal with these things because of their privalege in this society, so why would we even expect them to know how to discuss/fight against such things?

Now... I 100% agree with this. My point is that I don't need any sort of romantic relationship at all in order to move toward liberation. My children will have me.

quote:
So therefore if there aren't socially/racially aware children, how will the struggle continue?

See above.
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Virtue, don't start in again... the other brothers who didn't come to FAB's defense ARE NOT ON THIS THREAD PREACHING TO FOLKS HOW TO TREAT BLACK WOMEN....


No...

some of the brothers who didn't come to her defense are cursing sisters to make a point...


V



When you condemn all people unconditionally for a certain behavior then you can talk... you can't excuse Kai and Shango... and then jump on HB for doing the same thing you applauded with Shango... AND I WAS MUCH MILDER by comparison...

You weren't interested in defending black women when Shango was busting EbonyRose or when ripshyt was going for Fab...

It's only with you that it becomes a deep deep issue... and then to hell with everybody else...
Originally posted by virtue:

{snip}

So I was simply curious..... since you made a point to bring up Kai..... if there were any other brothers you were upset with that didn't come to your defense...


------------------------

One more thing, please don't presume you can speak for me. . .I never 'once' said ANYTHING about being upsetwith the brothers for not coming to my defense. So I have NO IDEA WHERE you're getting this from.

For the record, I haven't tried to put words in YOUR MOUTH and I'd appreciate the same respect. In fact, I don't recall DISRESPECTING you at any point in this discussion. . .

. . .and I'd appreciate the same courtesy from you.

Note: OOps, I edited my original response to your post by mistake. I'll have to come back later to repost my first response.

Dangit!
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Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Originally posted by virtue:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Virtue, don't start in again... the other brothers who didn't come to FAB's defense ARE NOT ON THIS THREAD PREACHING TO FOLKS HOW TO TREAT BLACK WOMEN....

------------------

No...

some of the brothers who didn't come to her defense are cursing sisters to make a point...


V


---------------------

{snip}

and I remember... this particular brother who has defended Fab on other occasions skipped that occasion because he was tired from dealing with Shango and really didn't want any more grief...

-------------------

yeah

Yes, you have come to my defense, HB. . .MANY MANY TIMES. Both YOU and BLACK VIKING have.

Also, you've made me feel welcome here, and you've helped me a lot with the functions of the board. Again, I can thank both you & Black Viking for your assistance, and please know that I appreciate it.

Much love to both my brothers.

Fab~
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
and to explain the basics to BV(I'm starting to see more confusion than just the name)

You guys just can't help yourselves, can you? lol

quote:
How much does one love their people if they don't choose to make a family life with their people?

Black people don't have any choices there. Black people make Black babies.

quote:
How is a White women going to bring up future generations of people that want to fight the white supremacist system(run by people that look like her).

In the absence of a Black mother, that's what Black father's are for. Smile

quote:
I know many people who have married/dated interracially and they are usually living in some poly anna world where they don't want to discuss race/class ect.

That's interesting. I don't know any Black people like that.... just White folks. If that were universal, I could take it for granted. But, even if they are living in a "pollyanna world"... it seems to me that is what needs to be addressed.

quote:
White women don't even have to deal with these things because of their privalege in this society, so why would we even expect them to know how to discuss/fight against such things?

Now... I 100% agree with this. My point is that I don't need any sort of romantic relationship at all in order to move toward liberation. My children will have me.

quote:
So therefore if there aren't socially/racially aware children, how will the struggle continue?

See above.


So your wife and mother of your chuildren possibly being completely devoid of any racial/political/social consciousness will not effect your children whatsoever huh? Speaking about poly anna thinking.

Conscious man + unconscious woman (wich you said white women are)= confused children at least mathematically speaking 50% of the time(if we look at reality of who actually does the majority of the nurturing the percentage goes way up.)

Why would someone concerned about liberation play Russian rulette with the future(the children) like that?

I guess I've been looking for a conscious brother for no apparent reason then. Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:

Conscious man + unconscious woman (wich you said white women are)= confused children at least mathematically speaking 50% of the time(if we look at reality of who actually does the majority of the nurturing the percentage goes way up.)

Why would someone concerned about liberation play Russian rulette with the future(the children) like that?

I guess I've been looking for a conscious brother for no apparent reason then. Roll Eyes



Conscious sistas are not that easy to find either...

The truth is this discussion is ALL hypothetical because conscious people are not likely to marry unconscious people (black or white) anyway...

And the conscious people are few and can't even agree on what "conscious" means ... and hence can't seem to even pair among themselves... and we're probably all doomed not to reproduce...

The real problem is that conscious people aren't reproducing enough...

Only the fools are having kids...
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
I hear you, OA... and I'm highly sympathetic to what you're saying... I probably agree with 95% of it ...

But, in all fairness, most black families aren't all that aware...

Most black families are not raising conscious black children..


and White women are going to do a better job in this area? Even the most backwards Black women has a racial experience that most progressive white women can't 'fully' understand.

quote:
Hell... most AMERICANS aren't conscious...


On this we agree, so I have no problem with anyone dating African immigrants from the Caribbean, South/Central Amerikkka or the Continent.

I don't even have as much an issue with other oppressed minorities...but white women? You just can't be worried about liberation and date white women.

quote:
Where I live, all folks do is act a fool and go to their (very conservative Christian) churches... I have a hard time dating sistas here because the first thing they want to know is "what church do you go to?" and don't seem happy with the answer "none"...

I swear...I kid you not...


I'm in the Bible belt from the home of the super idiot(Bush)so I understand...but everywhere has a small conscious community with a whole bunch of single women who can't find conscious men. i see it everywhere i go. Seek out your local Black book store and you will probably strike gold.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Conscious sistas are not that easy to find either...


Every state I've been to the conscious sisters outnumber the brothers exponentially.

quote:
The truth is this discussion is ALL hypothetical because conscious people are not likely to marry unconscious people (black or white) anyway...

And the conscious people are few and can't even agree on what "conscious" means ... and hence can't seem to even pair amomng themselves... and we're probably all doomed not to reproduce...

The real problem is that conscious people aren't reproducing enough...


lol...You have a point. I wonder when I'm going to be able to do the family thing...

But my main point is with BV, he says you can be down for liberation and date white women....That's impossible.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
So your wife and mother of your chuildren possibly being completely devoid of any racial/political/social consciousness will not effect your children whatsoever huh?

I didn't say anything close to that. Certainly it's not the easiest undertaking a person can take on. But, is that any different than raising children with a Black woman with no racial/social/political conciousness?

quote:
Conscious man + unconscious woman (wich you said white women are)= confused children at least mathematically speaking 50% of the time

That's not the slightest bit true. Where do you get that from? I've never in my life met a person with a White parent and a Black parent who entertained any illusions about who they are.

quote:
I guess I've been looking for a conscious brother for no apparent reason then. Roll Eyes

Not at all. I'm sure you have your reasons, and they are certainly good reasons because they're your reasons. Please note that I have never questioned or challenged them.

Please also note that I am not an advocate for IR relationships. I do not endlessly pontificate about how everyone should be doing it because... [insert stupid reason]. I will, however, defend each and every person's right to make that individual choice. And I will challenge any ideas that the individual's choice on this matter does any harm to the Black community.

I do find the way these threads always play out to be quite amusing though. The handful of us that have no issues with IR relationships are endlessly lectured at by those that do. But, not anywhere will you find any of us telling you who you should be choosing as a partner.

quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
But my main point is with BV, he says you can be down for liberation and date white women....That's impossible.

They used to say the Earth was flat, too.
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quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
So your wife and mother of your chuildren possibly being completely devoid of any racial/political/social consciousness will not effect your children whatsoever huh?


I didn't say anything close to that. Certainly it's not the easiest undertaking a person can take on. But, is that any different than raising children with a Black woman with no racial/social/political conciousness?



I guess you don't read the other posts...

To HB I commented, "Even the most backwards Black women has a racial experience that most progressive white women can't 'fully' understand."


quote:
quote:
Conscious man + unconscious woman (wich you said white women are)= confused children at least mathematically speaking 50% of the time

That's not the slightest bit true. Where do you get that from? I've never in my life met a person with a White parent and a Black parent who entertained any illusions about who they are.


Knowing you are Black doesn't mean you are consciousely working towards liberation(You just stated that by using unconscious Black women as an example so why are you flipping the definition now? I hilighted it for you if you missed it). If that was the case, our people would have no problems! Condi and Powell know they are Black. For Pete's sake...come on now. sck

quote:
quote:
I guess I've been looking for a conscious brother for no apparent reason then. Roll Eyes


Not at all. I'm sure you have your reasons, and they are certainly good reasons because they're your reasons. Please note that I have never questioned or challenged them.


That liberalism aboiut 'reasons are good because they are yours' crap doesn't fly with me. You stated you were down with liberation too, so you agree it is good because it will help us(well at least you)

quote:
Please also note that I am not an advocate for IR relationships. I do not endlessly pontificate about how everyone should be doing it because... [insert stupid reason]. I will, however, defend each and every person's right to make that individual choice. And I will challenge any ideas that the individual's choice on this matter does any harm to the Black community.


BTW that ultra individualist "Me I my" stuff that Amerkkkan capitalism promotes is counterproductive also, especially considering the global circumstances of our people...Oh, but you would have to be concerned about liberation to notice that...

You challenged it and I showed how it does effect 'us'.

quote:
I do find the way these threads always play out to be quite amusing though. The handful of us that have no issues with IR relationships are endlessly lectured at by those that do. But, not anywhere will you find any of us telling you who you should be choosing as a partner.


Now you are diverging from what 'we' were discussing. MY VERY FIRST POST ON THIS THREAD STATED:

People will do what they want even if it does not serve their group interests. I wouldn't have much of an issue with interracial dating(because we all are human beings) if we lived in a world where certain ethnicities/races weren't oppressed and exploited in mass by a European elite, White supremacist, patriarchial system. I don't think it is wise or proactive to date/marry Europeans/Whites until we have gotten our liberation. I also think that is why it doesn't bother some as much when folks date/marry other oppressed and exploited minorities(we have similar liberation objectives). I say lets get liberated and put an end to global white supremacy and then maybe we can be about the 'one love' thing. IMO, dating interracially prior to freedom, liberation, and self determination is counterproductive.

You then said that you were pro-liberation and simultaneousely said that inter racial dating wouldn't harm the struggle, that it had no effect. I proceded to explain how it DOES have an effect.

If you aren't worried about liberation than do what you will, that is why I said "People will do what they want even if it does not serve their group interests".

But you have not reconciled this truth...

Everything that touches your life must be an instrument of your liberation, or you must throw it into the trash can of history."
-Dr. John Henrik Clarke


...with interracial dating.

You can't reeconcile it because it is illogical. If Malcolm, Garvey and otherw were with white women it would be a CONTRADICTION. Period.

It's ok if you could give a rats ass about liberation, just admit it, it's not going to be everyone working towards that goal. But don't front just because it is the PC thing to say on AA.org.
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quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
So your wife and mother of your chuildren possibly being completely devoid of any racial/political/social consciousness will not effect your children whatsoever huh?


I didn't say anything close to that. Certainly it's not the easiest undertaking a person can take on. But, is that any different than raising children with a Black woman with no racial/social/political conciousness?



I guess you don't read the other posts...

To HB "Even the most backwards Black women has a racial experience that most progressive white women can't 'fully' understand."


quote:
quote:
Conscious man + unconscious woman (wich you said white women are)= confused children at least mathematically speaking 50% of the time

That's not the slightest bit true. Where do you get that from? I've never in my life met a person with a White parent and a Black parent who entertained any illusions about who they are.


Knowing you are Black doesn't mean you are consciousely working towards liberation(You just stated that by using unconscious Black women as an example so why are you flipping the definition now?). If that was the case our people would have no prpblems! Condi and Powell know they are Black FOR PETE'S SAKE...come on now.

quote:
quote:
I guess I've been looking for a conscious brother for no apparent reason then. Roll Eyes


Not at all. I'm sure you have your reasons, and they are certainly good reasons because they're your reasons. Please note that I have never questioned or challenged them.

Please also note that I am not an advocate for IR relationships. I do not endlessly pontificate about how everyone should be doing it because... [insert stupid reason]. I will, however, defend each and every person's right to make that individual choice. And I will challenge any ideas that the individual's choice on this matter does any harm to the Black community.

I do find the way these threads always play out to be quite amusing though. The handful of us that have no issues with IR relationships are endlessly lectured at by those that do. But, not anywhere will you find any of us telling you who you should be choosing as a partner.


Now you are diverging from what 'we' were discussing. MY VERY FIRST POST ON THIS THREAD STATED:

People will do what they want even if it does not serve their group interests. I wouldn't have much of an issue with interracial dating(because we all are human beings) if we lived in a world where certain ethnicities/races weren't oppressed and exploited in mass by a European elite, White supremacist, patriarchial system. I don't think it is wise or proactive to date/marry Europeans/Whites until we have gotten our liberation. I also think that is why it doesn't bother some as much when folks date/marry other oppressed and exploited minorities(we have similar liberation objectives). I say lets get liberated and put an end to global white supremacy and then maybe we can be about the 'one love' thing. IMO, dating interracially prior to freedom, liberation, and self determination is counterproductive.

You then said that you were pro-liberation and simultaneousely said that inter racial dating wouldn't harm the struggle, that it had no effect. I proceded to explain how it DOES have an effect.

If you aren't worried about liberation than do what you will, that is why I said "People will do what they want even if it does not serve their group interests".

But you have not reconciled this truth...

Everything that touches your life must be an instrument of your liberation, or you must throw it into the trash can of history."
-Dr. John Henrik Clarke


...with interracial dating.

It's ok if you could give a rats ass about liberation just admit it, it's not going to be everyone working towards that goal. But don't front.

P.S. That liberalism aboiut 'reasons are good because they are yours' crap doesn't fly with me.

BTW that untra individualist "Me I my" stuff that Amerkkkan capitalism promotes is counterproductive also, especially considering the global circumstances of our people...Oh, but you would have to be concerned about liberation to notice that...

I'm reminded of something Honest Brother said once...

"If reason were colored White... some Black folks would throw it out."

sleep sleep sleep
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
I'm reminded of something Honest Brother said once...

"If reason were colored White... some Black folks would throw it out."

sleep sleep sleep


The exact lack of a logical argument I expected...

I stated my REASONS for not approving of interracial dating for the time being, for the purpose of liberation, and you come back with a statement that insinuates some form of 'anti white' reverse racism on my part. Even though I stated that if liberation was not an issue for us(and others) as oppressed people, interracial dating wouldn't be one either BECAUSE WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS. Typical.

Just say what you really feel...

"I want the benefits of liberation, and I want to sound PC on a Black forum, but I'm not willing to make the sacrifice of doing "in all areas of my life" what it takes to participate in working towards liberation. I still want to be able to date white girls" -BV

This is the message you are sending "loud and clear" with your dance around the contradiction I brought up...

Another "Whirling Dervish"



Keep dancing!
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quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
I stated my REASONS for not approving of interracial dating for the time being, for the purpose of liberation,

Yes... you said that inter-racial dating was counterproductive to liberation. However, you have not qualified that statement. So, we are in disagreement. Don't take it so personally... it happens.

quote:
and you come back with a statement that insinuates some form of 'anti white' reverse racism on my part.

That's just silly. I didn't insinuate anything of the sort. That's so off the mark, I can't even pinpoint what statement I made that you could have misinterpreted so badly. If you point it out, I can clarify that for you.

quote:
Just say it...

"I do want the benefits of liberation, and I want to sound PC on a Black forum, but I'm not willing to make the sacrifice of doing "in all areas of my life" what it takes to participate in working towards liberation. I still want to be able to date white girls"-BV

There you go again... jumping to conclusions and trying to put words in my mouth. What do you need me for? You're doing such a great job arguing with yourself.

Obviously, sounding PC is not high on my list of priorities. If it were, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The willingness to date, and allow others to date, White people (as if it were up for a vote) without enormous amounts of unasked for criticism is decidedly NOT politically correct on this board.

Try again, OA.

quote:
This is the message you are sending "loud and clear" with your dance around the contradiction I brought up...

Is this your oh so powerful contradiction?...

quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
But you have not reconciled this truth...

Everything that touches your life must be an instrument of your liberation, or you must throw it into the trash can of history."
-Dr. John Henrik Clarke


...with interracial dating.

That doesn't need reconciling. As I said before, you haven't qualified the idea that inter-racial dating is counter productive to liberation.

Until that happens... we remain in disagreement. hat
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
and you come back with a statement that insinuates some form of 'anti white' reverse racism on my part.

That's just silly. I didn't insinuate anything of the sort. That's so off the mark, I can't even pinpoint what statement I made that you could have misinterpreted so badly. If you point it out, I can clarify that for you.

My apologies, OA. You are absolutely right. I did insinuate "anti-white reverse racism" on you're part with that remark. I shouldn't have done that. I retract the statement. Smile
Originally posted by virtue:
Originally posted by Fabulous:

I don't know, I'd have to revisit the thread. . .but that particular discussion can be found in the political issues area (you can check yourself also, if you really wanna know).

------------------------

I was referring to your quote here:

--------------------

Originally posted by Fabulous:

Ms. Sandye (being the beautiful black woman that she is) was the only person to speak against Richardo's disrespect toward me.

-------------------------

You made a point of saying that the only person to come to your defense was Sandye.....

So I was simply curious..... since you made a point to bring up Kai..... if there were any other brothers you were upset with that didn't come to your defense...

---------------------------

[COLOR:BLACK]First of all, I didn't MAKE A POINT TO BRING UP KAI, he was ALREADY involved in the conversation.
It just so happens he was posting to the same thread when Ricardo chose to step out of line with me. I find it strange that mr.kai would get on Honestbrother's case about using profanity, when he said NOTHING to Richardo (a white man) regarding 'his' use of it.

No matter how you slice it there's a double standard here.

Second of all, I don't expect ANYONE to come to my defense, I am perfectly capable of defending myself and HAVE--many times.

I'm simply curious as to why you seem to think you can say how *I* felt?

--------------------

But my point is though. . .there is definitely a bias here. . .

. . .and mr. kai should have said "sista" NOT "sistas."

Seems to me, as it relates to mr. kai, it's OK to insult 'some' black women here. . .Tell them they're FULL OF SHIT and this will be ignored (by mr.kai)

. . .so again, Honestbrother is exactly on point.

-------------------------

[i] Seems "bias" resides in many on this board.....


Peace to you,
V


------------------------

Maybe so, but the bias being discussion right now resides in THIS thread.

Oh and, peace to me, huh? Keep it. laugh

ftr, your question (regarding the 'other' brothers) brought to mind that I might've forgotten someone, THEREFORE, I must reiterate--Sandye is the only person I "recall" who spoke out against Ricardo's disrespect.

I'll have to check the thread to be sure--although doing so is not a priority for me at the moment.
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Peace....

quote:
Sure, you said you were with me, however, you said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to Richardo for "disrespectfully" saying I was full of shit (& his comment to me was totally unprovoked).

The issue being raised here (ie., your diatribe to Honestbrother)seems to be about the PROFANITY used (from what I can tell).

Apparently, you didn't appreciate the language Honestbrother used in his commentary to your sista (under the guise of "sistas"). . .although I'm not sure (I'd have to go back & look), if those comments were directed specifically to her.

However, Richardo directed HIS profanity "specifically" towards me. . .a black woman--that is my point.

I'm not referencing HIS position, my position or YOUR position. I'm not disputing your comment that you "were with me" (although actions speak louder than words).

I'm referencing Richardo's total disrespect towards me--disrespect that was UNCALLED for, as I did NOTHING to provoke him at the time.

Look. I'm not trying to bring up past history, however, YOU jumped down Honestbrother's throat for something YOU condoned (by your silence) not long ago. The only difference here (that I can see) is although I'm black, obviously I'm not your sista.

That's ALL I'm saying. It is VERY hypocritical, imo, to go off on Honestbrother for something you had no problem with coming from a white man.




Perhaps I should have said something. Truth is that at that time I was still relatively unfamiliar with most of the posters here, and I was also trying to get a better feel for what this place was about.

In the future I will make it a point to look out for all of my sisters...

Now, I would ask you why you did not raise an eyebrow while this conflict was going on? Sandye came to your defense, why did you not come to Virtue's defense since this is the right thing to do? You were eating popcorn while all of this was going on...

Let us all be judged by the same law...


Kai
Originally posted by Kai:
Peace....

Sure, you said you were with me, however, you said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to Richardo for "disrespectfully" saying I was full of shit (& his comment to me was totally unprovoked).

The issue being raised here (ie., your diatribe to Honestbrother)seems to be about the PROFANITY used (from what I can tell).

Apparently, you didn't appreciate the language Honestbrother used in his commentary to your sista (under the guise of "sistas"). . .although I'm not sure (I'd have to go back & look), if those comments were directed specifically to her.

However, Richardo directed HIS profanity "specifically" towards me. . .a black woman--that is my point.

I'm not referencing HIS position, my position or YOUR position. I'm not disputing your comment that you "were with me" (although actions speak louder than words).

I'm referencing Richardo's total disrespect towards me--disrespect that was UNCALLED for, as I did NOTHING to provoke him at the time.

Look. I'm not trying to bring up past history, however, YOU jumped down Honestbrother's throat for something YOU condoned (by your silence) not long ago. The only difference here (that I can see) is although I'm black, obviously I'm not your sista.

That's ALL I'm saying. It is VERY hypocritical, imo, to go off on Honestbrother for something you had no problem with coming from a white man.

---------------------

Perhaps I should have said something. Truth is that at that time I was still relatively unfamiliar with most of the posters here, and I was also trying to get a better feel for what this place was about.

In the future I will make it a point to look out for all of my sisters...

-----------------------

Yada, yada, yada. . .

Please spare me the bullshit ^. Personally, I don't care WHAT you do.

---------------------

Now, I would ask you why you did not raise an eyebrow while this conflict was going on? Sandye came to your defense, why did you not come to Virtue's defense since this is the right thing to do? You were eating popcorn while all of this was going on...

-----------------------

You have lost your damn mind. . .why should I come to virture's defense? Are you smoking something??? NOT ONCE has your SISTA come to "my' defense about ANY DAMN THING. Both of you seem to enjoy laughing behind people's back.

Are you thinking she's better than I am. . . that I would defend a woman who says NOTHING when the men here ATTACK ME? Please.

I have been attacked several times on this board. Why don't you ask HER the same damn question?

Or...do you consider the two of you so much BETTER than everyone else. . .that you can judge others by standards you don't follow your damn self.

You don't EVER need to come to my defense about ANY DAMN THING. I don't like how YOU do business, both YOU and yo sista are too self-righteous and judgmental for your own damn good, IMHO.

Stuck up, snobbish black folk.

You are a joke to even suggest I defend a woman, who, imo, disrespected ME on this very thread.

YOU MUST BE CRAZY.
----------------

Let us all be judged by the same law...

----------------

Please. Tell that shit up there to somebody who doesn't know any better. And while you're at it, take a look at the man in the mirror. As far as I'm concern BOTH OF YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.

Now, go back to ignoring me like you have been. . .
Originally posted by Kai:

{snip} why did you not come to Virtue's defense since this is the right thing to do? You were eating popcorn while all of this was going on...

-----------------

For the record, YOU do not decide for me what is "the right thing to do." I'm a GROWN ASS WOMAN.

The RIGHT thing to do was EXACTLY what I did.

Check it: munch

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