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Thank you, Oshun Auset! It's very nice that I didn't have to say this...

quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
This statement irks me because African men in this country, because of slvaery and Jim crow, oppression and exploitation could not, even if they wanted to, defend African women from our rapist and commen oppressor, and it's not like any record of the brothers sticking up for us was going to be recorded by massa.


quote:
Also, I would argue that White men haven't historically 'defended' White wome, but they were reacting to a power dyna,mic, they wnated to have all the women for themselves, and a Black man dealing with a white women is a threat to that power dynamic.

*ahem*

Like I said, V... gross mis-characterization.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
This statement irks me because African men in this country, because of slvaery and Jim crow, oppression and exploitation could not, even if they wanted to, defend African women from our rapist and commen oppressor, and it's not like any record of the brothers sticking up for us was going to be recorded by massa.


I don't disagree with this...

dear...

you lost the war....

and they won your most prized possession....

your women....

now what will you do? extol the virtues of integrating with theirs?

ahhh.... BV......

tsk... tsk...


quote:
Also, I would argue that White men haven't historically 'defended' White wome, but they were reacting to a power dyna,mic, they wnated to have all the women for themselves, and a Black man dealing with a white women is a threat to that power dynamic.




I don't disagree with this...

defense is a form of power..... it is a weapon.... a retort.... a means to hold on to what is deemed valuable..... even if the object of desire is not usually given status....

one may not like their cookie very much... but if a stranger tries to take it out of their hands... they will fight you over it... it is the principle of the thing... it "belongs" to them... and in that moment holds value over your desire to touch it....

yes...

Black men had the living s**** beat out of them....

so well in fact....

they have a hard time remembering what they are supposed to be fighting for...

hmmmm....

*ahem*..... unless... Black women are no longer a prize...

just ummmm.... one of the many on a Black man's palate? eh?



Peace Brova......

Virtue
For those sistas who think brothas 'lost the war' and need to be fighting for the 'prize' and striving for power.. to these sistas I say maybe you need to shut the f*ck up, stop causing disunity among the brothas, and quit making a useless distraction of yourself while we men wage war... because if you know so much what needs to be done maybe you're the one should be fighting the war... if you're not fighting do us a favor and be quiet...

Ahem..

Just MHO... Smile
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
For those sistas who think brothas 'lost the war' and need to be fighting for the 'prize' and striving for power.. to these sistas I say maybe you need to shut the f*ck up, stop causing disunity among the brothas, and quit making a useless distraction of yourself while we men wage war...

Ahem..

Just MHO... Smile


As usual eloquently and respectfully stated.....

"to those sisters" who think such.... I'm sure they have been enlightened and secured in their position with Black men especially with such verbiage used to direct their mouths....


we all got your point...

Thanks!



V
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
For those sistas who think brothas 'lost the war' and need to be fighting for the 'prize' and striving for power.. to these sistas I say maybe you need to shut the f*ck up, stop causing disunity among the brothas, and quit making a useless distraction of yourself while we men wage war...

Ahem..

Just MHO... Smile


Ouch just a tad bit harsh?...

I think virtue has a point though...

quote:
extolling the virtues of integrating with their women


Is not exactly a wise military operation.

Historically us women have been on the front line of the liberation wars brother, so it is a bit of a distraction (for some)to see our brothers with the enemies women.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:

dear...

you lost the war....

and they won your most prized possession....

your women....

now what will you do? extol the virtues of integrating with theirs?

ahhh.... BV......

tsk... tsk...

Oh... is that what I've been doing?

* Reading Is Fundamental *


Reading Is Fundamental indeed...

smile...

the bolded parts above are questions...

Would you answer them please...?


Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:

dear...

you lost the war....

and they won your most prized possession....

your women....

now what will you do? extol the virtues of integrating with theirs?

ahhh.... BV......

tsk... tsk...

Oh... is that what I've been doing?

* Reading Is Fundamental *


Reading Is Fundamental indeed...

smile...

the bolded parts above are questions...

Would you answer them please...?

And... I reponded with a question. Would you answer it please?
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
For those sistas who think brothas 'lost the war' and need to be fighting for the 'prize' and striving for power.. to these sistas I say maybe you need to shut the f*ck up, stop causing disunity among the brothas, and quit making a useless distraction of yourself while we men wage war...

Ahem..

Just MHO... Smile


As usual eloquently and respectfully stated.....

"to those sisters" who think such.... I'm sure they have been enlightened and secured in their position with Black men especially with such verbiage used to direct their mouths....


we all got your point...

Thanks!



V



I just love how your role is to sit around passively being the 'prize'...

It's women like you that make a lot of brothas wonder if the prize is worth fighting for...

You may not like the way I say things but at least I don't beat around the bush...

and at least I bother to figure what I'm talking about before I open my mouth...


I'm out of this..
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:


I just love how your role is to sit around passively being the 'prize'...

It's women like you that make a lot of brothas wonder if the prize is worth fighting for...

You may not like the way I say things but at least I don't beat around the bush...

and at least I bother to figure what I'm talking about before I open my mouth...


I'm out of this..


sigh....

you're right...

I'm wrong..

better now...?



Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
Are you not capable of sharing with us your views on interracial dating?

Of course I am, and have done so many times. This statement here...

quote:
Originally posted by virtue:

now what will you do? extol the virtues of integrating with theirs?

ahhh.... BV......

tsk... tsk...

...implies that you already know them, and are simply laying judgment on what you believe them to be. It reads like you're asking a question, but you're not really. You and I have danced to this song before.

But, for the record, I will answer your non-question.

Black Viking's views on inter-racial relationships are as follows...

Inter-racial relationships are completely irrelevant to anyone not directly engaged in one. If it's not happening under your roof, then it's not your business or your problem.

And, when I say irrelevant... I mean exactly that. It has no appreciable positive or negative effect on the Black or White community.
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
To the sistas who want to know when I will stand with you... I ask when are you going to stand with me?

Instead of the * preacher/minister * or the pimp or the homeboy or the 'soldier'/ruffneck or the doctor or the lawyer or the man with the bucks????

When are you going to stand with me??????

-------------

I'm not one of those sistas you mentioned above, but when you need me to--I'll stand wit ya. Smile and I'll be waiting. . .right over there~~~~~~~~~>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>when you need me.

I got your back.
Smile
Originally posted by Black Viking:

Black Viking's views on inter-racial relationships are as follows...

Inter-racial relationships are completely irrelevant to anyone not directly engaged in one. If it's not happening under your roof, then it's not your business or your problem.

And, when I say irrelevant... I mean exactly that. It has no appreciable positive or negative effect on the Black or White community.


------------------

yeah
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
...implies that you already know them, and are simply laying judgment on what you believe them to be. It reads like you're asking a question, but you're not really. You and I have danced to this song before.


hmmmm..... you are correct....

and I do so love to dance......

Smile


quote:
But, for the record, I will answer your non-question.

Black Viking's views on inter-racial relationships are as follows...
Thank you.....

quote:
Inter-racial relationships are completely irrelevant to anyone not directly engaged in one. If it's not happening under your roof, then it's not your business or your problem.


When speaking in general here on a forum.... about the phenomenon..... it is completely relevant....

and when we are considering its effects..... on the psyche and health of Black female and male relationships...

I'd say it has relevancy.....



quote:
And, when I say irrelevant... I mean exactly that. It has no appreciable positive or negative effect on the Black or White community.[/i]


See above.....

Peace,
Virtue
Peace.....


quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
For those sistas who think brothas 'lost the war' and need to be fighting for the 'prize' and striving for power.. to these sistas I say maybe you need to shut the f*ck up, stop causing disunity among the brothas, and quit making a useless distraction of yourself while we men wage war... because if you know so much what needs to be done maybe you're the one should be fighting the war... if you're not fighting do us a favor and be quiet...

Ahem..

Just MHO... Smile


Why do you consistently make it a point to disrespect the sisters on this forum?

You offend me when you speak to women like that....

I guarantee you that if this were a study group, and we all were sitting face to face, you would not speak to a sister in this manner, and if you did, you wouldn't speak for awhile thereafter...I am completely sure about that...

Would it take away from the intensity of your objection if you showed just a little more respect?

Calm down.



Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
Black Viking's views on inter-racial relationships are as follows...

Inter-racial relationships are completely irrelevant to anyone not directly engaged in one. If it's not happening under your roof, then it's not your business or your problem.

And, when I say irrelevant... I mean exactly that. It has no appreciable positive or negative effect on the Black or White community.


bs

The family is the cornerstone of any society.

You lied on the other thread. Liberation is not your motivation.
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
When speaking in general here on a forum.... about the phenomenon..... it is completely relevant....

Only to those who are engaged in one. If you're not engaged in one, then it doesn't affect you.

quote:
and when we are considering its effects..... on the psyche and health of Black female and male relationships...

I'd say it has relevancy.....

What effects?

And please... don't give me useless diatribe like your buddy Shango.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
To the sistas who want to know when I will stand with you... I ask when are you going to stand with me?

Instead of the * preacher/minister * or the pimp or the homeboy or the 'soldier'/ruffneck or the doctor or the lawyer or the man with the bucks????

When are you going to stand with me??????


Most of the sistas I know that want to know when the men will stand with them have always stood by the men, that is why they are asking the question. The average blu-coolar guy is a rare find now-a-days.

Come now, we must admit that the sisters statistically are not the one's doing the running under any circumstances.

But I do have issues with sisters not fighting against the prison industrial complex(and the oppression and exploitation that makes it viable) in this country when that is what is messing up most of our men, removing them from the home, and institutioalizing them psychologically.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
The family is the cornerstone of any society.

Relevance?


How did you miss the relavance?
So if the family is the cornerstone, and the majority of 'our' people in this country are missing the cornerstone, then how are we supposed to liberate ourselves as a society with no foundation?

Like I stated before...

"People will do what they want even if it does not serve their group interests. I wouldn't have much of an issue with interracial dating(because we all are human beings) if we lived in a world where certain ethnicities/races weren't oppressed and exploited in mass by a European elite, White supremacist, patriarchial system. I don't think it is wise or proactive to date/marry Europeans/Whites until we have gotten our liberation. I also think that is why it doesn't bother some as much when folks date/marry other oppressed and exploited minorities(we have similar liberation objectives). I say lets get liberated and put an end to global white supremacy and then maybe we can be about the 'one love' thing. IMO, dating interracially prior to freedom, liberation, and self determination is counterproductive."

quote:
quote:
You lied on the other thread. Liberation is not your motivation.

bs


Nope, it's the truth, you proved it here.

"Everything that touches your life must be an instrument of your liberation, or you must throw it into the trash can of history."
-Dr. John Henrik Clarke

Please explain how interracial dating help promote our liberation.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:

Only to those who are engaged in one. If you're not engaged in one, then it doesn't affect you.

see my previous response....

quote:
What effects?

And please... don't give me useless diatribe like your buddy Shango.


Please don't dictate to me how to answer...... if I post something you find distasteful.... I'm sure you're aware you have the right to ignore it....

the fundamental problem here... is you do not have a sense of history.... or you would never have asked such a question..... the pain would be evident....

alas....

I'm not sure why you are so removed from it....

but I have my speculations....


Peace to you....

V
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
Peace.....


quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
For those sistas who think brothas 'lost the war' and need to be fighting for the 'prize' and striving for power.. to these sistas I say maybe you need to shut the f*ck up, stop causing disunity among the brothas, and quit making a useless distraction of yourself while we men wage war... because if you know so much what needs to be done maybe you're the one should be fighting the war... if you're not fighting do us a favor and be quiet...

Ahem..

Just MHO... Smile


Why do you consistently make it a point to disrespect the sisters on this forum?

You offend me when you speak to women like that....

I guarantee you that if this were a study group, and we all were sitting face to face, you would not speak to a sister in this manner, and if you did, you wouldn't speak for awhile thereafter...I am completely sure about that...

Would it take away from the intensity of your objection if you showed just a little more respect?

Calm down.

Kai



I AM calm... I show respect when and where I receive it... and as for the "sistas" on this forum to whom I'm "disrespectful", you and I both know that more properly speaking you should have said "sista" ... and you really wouldn't care if it were someone else...
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
To the sistas who want to know when I will stand with you... I ask when are you going to stand with me?

Instead of the * preacher/minister * or the pimp or the homeboy or the 'soldier'/ruffneck or the doctor or the lawyer or the man with the bucks????

When are you going to stand with me??????


Most of the sistas I know that want to know when the men will stand with them have always stood by the men, that is why they are asking the question. The average blu-coolar guy is a rare find now-a-days.

Come now, we must admit that the sisters statistically are not the one's doing the running under any circumstances.

But I do have issues with sisters not fighting against the prison industrial complex(and the oppression and exploitation that makes it viable) in this country when that is what is messing up most of our men, removing them from the home, and institutioalizing them psychologically.



OA, I'm alright with you... And you may be correct as concerns the statistics... but in my own personal struggle, statistics and what everybody else is doing really don't matter very much... I know what I'VE GONE THROUGH... and I know it intimately... and based on what I'VE GONE THROUGH, the sistas aren't down with me... so I don't appreciate being told that I need to be down with sistas or else there's something wrong with me...

They may be standing by some other brother and having somebody else's babies... but it was NOT me....
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:

the fundamental problem here... is you do not have a sense of history.... or you would never have asked such a question..... the pain would be evident....

OK, that makes perfect sense. Since you can't explain it, then it must be that I have no sense of history. It couldn't possibly be that you just can't explain it because it's not real.

I find it very ironic that a discussion always devolves into personal attacks when a person makes statements they can't provide sound reasoning for. Usually, the reason they can't provide sound reasoning is because they didn't use it to come to their conclusion in the first place.

quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
alas....

I'm not sure why you are so removed from it....

but I have my speculations....

Interesting non-answer. But, by all means, go on speculating. That's all you've done so far anyway.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
Peace.....


quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
For those sistas who think brothas 'lost the war' and need to be fighting for the 'prize' and striving for power.. to these sistas I say maybe you need to shut the f*ck up, stop causing disunity among the brothas, and quit making a useless distraction of yourself while we men wage war... because if you know so much what needs to be done maybe you're the one should be fighting the war... if you're not fighting do us a favor and be quiet...

Ahem..

Just MHO... Smile


Why do you consistently make it a point to disrespect the sisters on this forum?

You offend me when you speak to women like that....

I guarantee you that if this were a study group, and we all were sitting face to face, you would not speak to a sister in this manner, and if you did, you wouldn't speak for awhile thereafter...I am completely sure about that...

Would it take away from the intensity of your objection if you showed just a little more respect?

Calm down.

Kai



I AM calm... I show respect when and where I receive it... and as for the "sistas" on this forum to whom I'm "disrespectful", you and I both know that more properly speaking you should have said "sista" ... and you really wouldn't care if it were someone else...


As far as I have read, no one has disrespected you.

Why don't you just stick to the subject matter, and stop the personal attacks...

Now, perhaps I am making a big deal out of nothing..Let me check...


HonestBrother, when you feel compelled to disrespect black women, Just Shut the Fuck Up!!
Shut the Fuck Up...can you do that?

Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
OK, that makes perfect sense. Since you can't explain it, then it must be that I have no sense of history. It couldn't possibly be that you just can't explain it because it's not real.

I find it very ironic that a discussion always devolves into personal attacks when a person makes statements they can't provide sound reasoning for. Usually, the reason they can't provide sound reasoning is because they didn't use it to come to their conclusion in the first place.


Alright...


let's "speculate"...

You, Your Mother, Your Sister , Your Father and Your Brother are a family

strangers come in.... while you and your father are away....

kills Your Brother...... Rapes and Kills Your mother.... Rapes Your Sister and keeps her with him.....

When you and your father arrive home.....

you discover that almost every neighborhood on the block has been done like this...

you then discover from the police that this is the work of a family that lives close to the neighborhood....

then that family buys up all the property left....

and every woman in their house lives rich off of the destruction of the former neighborhood....

You find and save Your Sister.... and she is bitter....

she watched as they murdered and raped her mother.... killed her brother and mentally destroyed all of the men left that she knew and loved

well....

let's say the criminal family gets away with all this...

and you are hired on their grounds along with all of the other men from the former neighborhood......

and you as well as many of the men take a liking to some of the women living and looking so fine in the house...

the women that are left are bewildered and increasingly find themselves not desired and criticized......

you turn to find Your Sister.... bitter... worried.... and disappointed....

and you say....

my love for the women in that house..... has nothing to do with you.....

or does it BV?

does it?



Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:

HonestBrother, when you feel compelled to disrespect black women, Just Shut the Fuck Up!!
Shut the Fuck Up...can you do that?

Kai


Nobody said this SHIT when it was Fabulous, or EbonyRose, or art_gurl getting disrespected...

Kai, I was just starting to like you ... but if you insist on being biased as you are to one in particular and then insult me by pretending that I "disrespect" all black women, then you can kiss my muthafuckin black ass...

And you shut the fuck up, you useless hypocrite...
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
To the sistas who want to know when I will stand with you... I ask when are you going to stand with me?

Instead of the * preacher/minister * or the pimp or the homeboy or the 'soldier'/ruffneck or the doctor or the lawyer or the man with the bucks????

When are you going to stand with me??????


Most of the sistas I know that want to know when the men will stand with them have always stood by the men, that is why they are asking the question. The average blu-coolar guy is a rare find now-a-days.

Come now, we must admit that the sisters statistically are not the one's doing the running under any circumstances.

But I do have issues with sisters not fighting against the prison industrial complex(and the oppression and exploitation that makes it viable) in this country when that is what is messing up most of our men, removing them from the home, and institutioalizing them psychologically.



OA, I'm alright with you... And you may be correct as concerns the statistics... but in my own personal struggle, statistics and what everybody else is doing really don't matter very much... I know what I'VE GONE THROUGH... and I know it intimately... and based on what I'VE GONE THROUGH, the sistas aren't down with me... so I don't appreciate being told that I need to be down with sistas or else there's something wrong with me...

They may be standing by some other brother and having somebody else's babies... but it was NOT me....


I didn't even date ANYONE until I was 19 because where I grew up the brothers refused to date sisters. If I judged Africkkkan men born in Amerikkka on my dating experiences alone I would run and hide rather than stand by them, but I know that it is about more than just 'me'. My whole objective is wether something in my life is counterproductive to liberation.


and to explain the basics to BV(I'm starting to see more confusion than just the name)

Baby, black women have been subjected to the White beauty standard for years,(and many brothers have bought into it) just like my hair is a political statement, my interpersonal relationships are also a political statement. How much does one love their people if they don't choose to make a family life with their people?

Women are the mothers of civilization. How is a White women going to bring up future generations of people that want to fight the white supremacist system(run by people that look like her). I know many people who have married/dated interracially and they are usually living in some poly anna world where they don't want to discuss race/class ect. White women don't even have to deal with these things because of their privalege in this society, so why would we even expect them to know how to discuss/fight against such things?

So therefore if there aren't socially/racially aware children, how will the struggle continue?
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:

HonestBrother, when you feel compelled to disrespect black women, Just Shut the Fuck Up!!
Shut the Fuck Up...can you do that?

Kai


Nobody said this SHIT when it was Fabulous, or EbonyRose, or art_gurl getting disrespected...

Kai, I was just starting to like you ... but if you insist on being biased as you are to one in particular and then insult me by pretending that I "disrespect" all black women, then you can kiss my muthafuckin black ass.

And you shut the fuck up, you useless hypocrite...


Honest Brother, ignorant animals will act as such, you aren't ignorant, nor are you uncultured. Some men need more than reminding, they need to be taught. You know better, which is why you always fly to the defense of certain women when they are aggressed on this board. You don't like it..But you do it to others.

If you were starting to like me, you would not attack my sister.

But, the truth is that you and Black Viking have your hanbds full...You have stepped into it...

From one brother to another, just tone it down...

Why do i feel like Kevin Cosner?


Kai

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