Cosby Emphasizes Importance of Parenting

I love Bill Cosby and agree with many of his statements, but boyfriend has to clean up his own back yard before he will be taken seriously. Truth is truth and it stands alone, and his truth is serious. Live your truth and it is easier for me to follow. Speak your truth and live otherwise ... well, you know!

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Truth is truth and it stands alone, and his truth is serious. Live your truth and it is easier for me to follow. Speak your truth and live otherwise ... well, you know!

You're not trying say Dear Old Hee-cliff Father BILL is one of those "Do As I Say Not As I Do (or Done)" type of people? Are you?

Well, I agree with you that the Truth is the Truth regardless. He still just comes across as a Condemnation Preacher with a choir of folks celebrating him as he closes the prospects to actually win new souls with his old style preachin' that turns more people off than it turns people on, IMHO.

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Originally posted by Bill Cosby:
Parents need to teach their children lessons at home and need to make an effort to be a part of their children's lives. Children need to be watched and you need to stay on the case. If you can't do it, get some damn help.

Regardless of who is giving the message, the message cannot be emphasized enough. Children only go so far as their parents will lead them. We've discussed Bill before and I have some concerns about the way his message is delievered, but I also find it interesting that nowadays whenever someone receives criticism, they immediately resort to trying to dig up dirt on the individual to use against them rather than simply receiving and appreciating the criticism. Is this some sort of defense mechanism? Eventually, if this kind treatment continues, no one will ever again be bold enough to say what's on their mind for fear that a mob of resentful people, with fragile and sensitive egos, will tear them down. But do we honestly want to live in society where the people are afraid to speak up??? Should we wonder why we haven't seen the presence (and stability) of black leadership since the 60's. Even the possibility of black leadership is doubted, and challenged, sometimes maliciously. I mean, here is a guy who has boldly stepped out in the spirit of Malcolm X, and others, who took a chance by saying things to people that they knew would not be readily accepted and what support do we offer? None. We have nothing but attacks upon his character. I believe like other controversial speakers before him who received unwelcomed responses to their message initially, Bill should perservere. Experience has taught me that those who become uncomfortable with a message and mistakingly arrive to the conclusion that any response they are in disagreement with is "bullshit" are the people who need the message the most (refer to next poster for primary example).

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Eventually, with this kind treatment, no one ever again will be bold enough to say what's on their mind for fear that a mob of weak-willed people with fragile egos with try to tear them down at every turn.

BULLSHIT!!!!

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Here is a man, who is boldly stepping out in the spirit of Malcolm X...

Laughable BULLSHIT!!!

ROWE both of the things I've highlighted are blatant mischaracterizations or utterly ridiculous and untenable assertions. The Spirit Of Malcolm X thing just takes the cake though.

Could you explain that one please?

And what exact message do I need?
It's not so much about me "agreeing" with what you've said. It's the inaccuracy of what you've said that makes it BULLSHIT!

But... surprise me. Explain how Cosby represents or "stepped out" in the Spirit Of Malcolm X. In what possible sense?

Explain how Malcolm X's speeches about self-reliance (White-washed into some "Personal Responsibility" BS) and NOI typical addresses about how we behave as a people (hmmm.... How is Farrakhan received when he makes similar convicting speeches today) were "unwelcomed" or otherwise not readily received.

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Experience has taught me that those who become uncomfortable with a message...

Talk about WEAK...
Tell me what my experience has taught me about responses like yours?

Making assertions you can only make with unqualified ASSUMPTIONS. And, as for the first thing I quoted... you sure do love your sweeping claims. If you, Bill or anyone else needs support or a warm reception when you voice your views and will somehow be less than willing to voice them again when not "readily received" then that's the very definition of WEAK WILLED.

"no one ever again"
"try to tear them down at every turn."

Your choice of words (the exaggerations) speaks volumes about your sentiment/argument/position/thought.

Obviously, there is something that Malcolm X (and now Farrakhan) has that Bill doesn't. It's pretty freakin' obvious to me the difference.

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"My people love me...

And yet, I point out the evils of Black people like no other leader does, but my people don't call me anti-Black, because they know I... love them." - Farrakhan

Somehow, BILL is not communicating that. "Lower Economic" people, e.g., sure doesn't communicate love.

Rowe ...

I believe that Bill will persevere and not be turned away by those who are more concerned with him personally and with the message he delivers. I have yet to find one person who will say that what he has to say is not the truth ... but many people who take exception with the way it said it, or who he said it to, or that he said it at all. That leads me to believe that it is indeed some kind of defense mechanism, used to shield either hurt or guilt over the circumstances of which he speaks. Kinda like White folks telling us we need to "get over it." They don't deny slavery or the horrors of it ... but definitely don't want to talk about it.

Until the man starts lying to me about our circumstances, I'll willing to listen to whatever he has to say. I've yet to encounter or be presented with a perfect individual on this earth. If we are only going to appreciate someone who has no flaws or shortcomings, then we will not even be able to revere ourselves or our loved ones. We would all be in big, big trouble.

Bill Cosby should run for the open NAACP president position.

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I have yet to find one person who will say that what he has to say is not the truth ...

And I have yet to find one person to illustrate how his "truth" is relevant.

Making A Logical Argument 101 says premises based on TRUTH don't necessarily make for true conclusions. Therefore, the simple fact that he told "the truth" about something is, in this case, irrelevant.

Damn... All rewards and hand claps to the Preacher who gets up and says, "Ya'll out there sinnin'!!" NO SHIT SHERLOCKE!! I recall something about a Broken Clock...

What a magical and magnificent preacher that is!
He tells the "truth". lol. Therefore, everything else he's said in his sermon(s) are Gospel Gold no matter what. No matter what.

Damn, ROWE... I would at least think you could appreciate the elements of "psychological abuse", etc. you're able to recognize when it comes to the Christian Church. But, Bill Cosby... he's special. He's not like them old preachers who can "tell the truth" but still not rank that high up there with you, huh ROWE??

This is too funny!!
Of disconnect and positions of convenience.

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Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
Bill Cosby should run for the open NAACP president position.

That wouldn't be a bad idea. At least he'll bring some "life" to the organization. Don't know how much of an organizer he is. But that would give them someone with a magnetic persona.

Good idea, IMO.... despite how I disagree with Cos.

Nmaginate ...

The "truth" statement was mine, not Rowe's.

However, from someone who considers the truth irrelvant - at any time and/or in any way ... I wouldn't expect for you to recognize it even when presented to you. And attributing the wrong quote to the wrong person would be the very least of your confusions.

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Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Nmaginate ...

The "truth" statement was mine, not Rowe's.

I'm aware of that. Part of the way through, I turned to address something to ROWE. It just so happen that you both echo the same sad, silly "stop picking on him" sentiment along with the concept that he was "telling the (whole) truth" praising Smoke & Mirrors as if there's some real magic to it.

Preach On Preacher! lol

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However, from someone who considers the truth irrelvant - at any time and/or in any way ... I wouldn't expect for you to recognize it even when presented to you.

Please... Review Making A Logical Argument 101.
The claims about Cosby from his supporters here with respect to him speaking the "truth" have tried to say that Cosby's argument is "right". It is not.

Hmmm.... Now, I've had my bouts with you over Cosby before. Exactly what would make you think that your One and Only line is not something I attribute to you?

I've been guilty of confusing people I don't particularly know well. To that, I'll gladly admit. But for someone like you who has no concept of shit... Well, let's just say you're UnForGettaBle!!

As far as your acontextual issues, again, MAKING A LOGICAL ARGUMENT 101 (HINT: What do you DEDUCE?):

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And I have yet to find one person to illustrate how his "truth" is relevant.

Making A Logical Argument 101 says premises based on TRUTH don't necessarily make for true conclusions. Therefore, the simple fact that he told "the truth" about something is, in this case, irrelevant.

That's the whole, entire context. The claim that "Cosby speaks the TRUTH", again, presents itself as if Cosby's whole argument is "true" and valid. I contend it is/was not.

The value of the "truth" he spoke towards the supposed end that gave rise to his "speaking out" is minimal if at all measureable. Hence, his "truth" is IRRELEVANT. The things he said that were true don't forward his stated purpose/goal nor does it make for a complete or valid argument. PERIOD!

Assuming and even granting you that all of Cosby's premises/statements were true and, most importantly, accurate (which was hardly the case) the value of Cosby's statement have to go beyond whether he could identify "sin". Since his statements are patently without any real substance beyond rhetoric then his statements are IRRELEVANT and really are of no transformative worth to the very people he directed his comments to. Again, making them IRRELEVANT (except to those who like Condemnation Preachers - preachin' at other folk as opposed to them - and think that style of preachin' will get and keep you "saved").

This is not heavy stuff. But I guess a preacher saying nothing more than, "Ya'll been sinnin'" (again NO SHIT SHERLOCKE!) is so very relevant to the spiritual growth and well-being of his flock. (*eyes-a-rollin*)

I could care less if it was Scarface saying it (his last album was borderline gospel), Styles P, Michael Jackson, Mike Tyson or Jadakiss, these people have the mic. So they have the ears. I'd rather them say things like what Bill emphasizes than anything else. Do you suggest that everyone with a microphone become saints/sages/priests?

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Originally posted by HeruStar:

I'd rather them say things like what Bill emphasizes than anything else. Do you suggest that everyone with a microphone become saints/sages/priests?

Who are you addressing?

And, I may very well agree with you but that's a matter of preference between one things that off and another that's less off. Get the picture?

As far as Cosby being a saint or rather comparing him to rappers, etc. well, there's no reason for him to be off like he was. He's definitely entitled to his ideology (of which he preached fluently) but when he pretends he's the Great Crusader/Savior (or gets hyped as if he is or something else so great and grand) then he is also entitled to be scrutinized.

The actual CONTENT of what he said instead of just passe' themes are what his sound and fury has "brought upon himself" (see Eddie Murphy).

If you were talking to me... Please reference my response to RADIO. That says I could care less whether Cosby is perfect. His message, however, will be checked!

Peace and Blessings,
I have not done much research into Cosby's illicit affairs. However, I do know that whether or not one agrees with the message or not, the message will sometimes get clouded by the actions of the messenger. Those that support a hypocritical messenger will sometimes get bogged down in defending him. Either way the spirit of the message gets lost in the argument. If it is a good message it is sad indeed. I will do more research about Cosby and his message to determine better where I will stand on this issue.

Peace,
Virtue

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However, I do know that whether or not one agrees with the message or not, the message will sometimes get clouded by the actions of the messenger. Those that support a hypocritical messenger will sometimes get bogged down in defending him. Either way the spirit of the message gets lost in the argument.

Hmmm.... It would seem something like that just Flies Right Over Their Heads.

Supporting or otherwise feeling affinity with someone can do some strange things and highlight contradictions. It's as if some don't recognize how much they value STYLE over Substance. And we won't talk about the latter as it relates to Father BILL.

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Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Until the man starts lying to me about 'our' circumstances, I'll willing to listen to whatever he has to say.

I'm curious as to why you used the pronoun 'our' in your response when the article mentioned nothing about a specific race of parents needing this general advice. This is why I have not overreacted to the topic nor do I perceive Bill's advice on parenting as some "malicious personal attack against blacks." As a teacher, I witness parents from all races and from all economic backgrounds that are neglectful of their children's academic and social development. I provided an article in the Family/Children forum discussing how people in general have become "too busy" to parent, only one person responded. In fact, allow me to give you all an example of the quality of parents that children have available to them today. Just recently, I was invited to participate in a parent/teacher conference for a boy who is basically "terrorizing" the school. Absolutely no teaching can get done when he's present because he intentionally disrupts the class by doing a myriad of things. After many unsuccessful attempts, the vice-principal FINALLY got his mother to come in and I was invited to talk about what I observe him doing in my classroom. The mother arrived reaking of alcohol, her breath was so offensive that we had to politely cover our noses in order to speak to her. After hearing all of our complaints, she gives the boy a contrite speech about how "he had better change," then she left. The stench from the woman's breath and body was so overpowering that the vice-principal had to spray her office after the parent left. So unless you are on the front lines, in public schools, interacting with the kinds of parents teachers see everyday, you all can keep your 2 cent comments on this topic. People are always asking me, "Why are the kids becoming increasingly unruly and violent nowadays," and I tell them, its because the parents don't care. If you have children, teachers know everything, all your personal business, that goes on and is not going on in your household because we are the people who spend the most time with them. Therefore, as an educator, I always welcome any remarks, ANY remarks that someone has to share on better parenting. I could give a damn who it comes from.

Bill Cosby via this article offered insightful remarks on things to do in order to be a more effective parent? Things no one else has said in such an "illuminating" way or something?

What exactly did he share?

Wait a minute! Are we actually talking about Dr. Phil???

You know to be honest on a basic level, one cannot compare Bill Cosby to Malcolm X.
Bill Cosby's offering up what for the last 40 years we've had in the black community from high profile black people, lip service. Someone here said that we shouldn't look at Bill Cosby's personal life regarding what he says. However, that in this situation is a key component. He says that we should be better paretns, but what kind of parent was he? Well let's look at his own personal example. He had an affair with a woman for 10 years. My point in making that statement is that he obviously found this woman to be more important than spending that time with his children and building up a better relationship with his family. He even went on to support this other woman's child to keep this relationship on the hush, most likely thinking that it was his child. Additionally, one of his children went on to become a drug addict, so he has no room to criticize any parent who suffers from their child going astray. Bill Cosby can't tell me s**t about being a good parent. The person we should be hearing from is Dr. Camille Cosby.
And as far as this comparison to Malcolm X, I just have to say this. Malcolm X practiced what he preached he lived the example and the life. Can we say that same thing about Bill Cosby?

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Originally posted by Rowe:
I'm curious as to why you used the pronoun 'our' in your response when the article mentioned nothing about a specific race of parents needing this general advice.

I used the pronoun "our" because I am more concerned about "our" children and community more than I am concerned with anybody else's. I have said repeatedly on this board that I really don't give a damn about other people and their problems. But that's not entirely true. I am concerned about all of humanity, actually. But, I have a special affinity to the Black community. My concerns and thoughts when it comes to particular societal ills become more fine tuned when it comes to the Black community ... and especially, "our" children.

All power to you, as an educator. I've no doubt that you see all and know all and experience all insofar as family issues are concerned. And I commend you for making that your life's work. Teachers are high on my list of the world's most wonderful people! As an educator, I'm sure you don't see Black children or White children or Asian children before you just see a child, first and foremost, in front of you. That's your job. And I don't doubt that works well for you.

But as a Black woman in America looking at the Black community with all it's wonders and it's ills, I particularly see Black children who are in trouble. I see Black young men going to jail at an alarming rate. I see Black families in poverty. I watch Black folks of all ages beat the odds, become successful, do wonderful things for others not so fortunate. That's what I look at. And that's what works for me.

That's what works for Bill, too. There are bad parents in every race. But, I believe he has the same affinity towards the Black community as I have ... because he is a Black man and I am a Black woman. Looking at some of the disparities that cause discrimination towards "us", do you think a little extra thinking about is a bad thing? Should we all just think as others would like us to that, all things being equal, we don't have "special" problems to worry about?

I, admittedly, do not see us living in colorblind society. All things are not equal. All children need caring about, but I care, especially ... with a particular interest, about Black children. And I don't apologize for it, either.

Yssys ....

Hey there! Long time no see!

Not to discredit anything you said, because I understand your point wholeheartedly, but, just as a way of explanation for my point of view, I offer two points.

The first is that, when it comes to "If you're living in a glass house, you don't throw no stones" ... a person who has experience with something may be the best person to tell someone else not to do it! For example, if a murderer were tell the me that it is wrong to kill, should I discount or discredit his dialogue because he, himself, had committed the crime? Or say, a father who was never married to his child's mother, should he tell his son, 'Don't use condoms when you start having sex. If you get a girl pregnant you don't have to marry her?

And second, Bill's adultery, his fathering a child out of wedlock, having one child become addicted to drugs, and another killed on the side of the road may not nominate him for the Fatherhood Hall of Fame, that's true enough. But, I don't see where that disqualifies him from being able to recognize a very real problem that plagues our community.

Perhaps Bill and I are the only one's that see that there is a problem in the Black community with too many parents not being responsible enough for their children. Not all. Maybe not even most. But still too many. It is a problem that many other people, since Bill said it, have also said does exists. I don't believe it to be a fantasy or a right-wing-conspiracy myth, or some extravagant unfounded, unprovable lie made up for ... whatever. I see a problem in our, in the Black community, with too many children going improperly parented and turning into statistics.

If someone were to be able to show me that there is an almost zero percentage of parents that fall into that category, I would be happy to discredit Bill's statements and call him the fool other people do. In fact, nothing would please me more. Bill has said there is a problem. Others have said that there is, indeed, that same problem. I, with my own eyes, see such problem. If there isn't really a problem, I'm all for being shown that.

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It is a problem that many other people, since Bill said it, have also said does exists.

ER, that's simply just not true. Bill Cosby didn't turn on any light bulbs in the way you're trying to say he did.

No one denied that the problem existed.

Since you want to play the "Show Me Proof" game, show us when and where someone in the Black Community denied there was a problem particularly when you (only you before Bill started tag-teaming with cha) said there was a problem.

Nmaginate ...

You really need to quit telling me what I am "trying" to say, because you have and have never had ABSOLUTELY no clue what that is. And it's a safe bet you never will.

I said what I meant to say. There was no trying involved.

Now, what I meant by what I said is that since the time that Bill made his comments, numerous other people have said/written the same thing. Whether while agreeing with Bill's statement or while formulating a commentary of their own, other people, other than BILL COSBY himself have said the same thing. Period. I did not say anything about him being the first or "turning on any light bulbs."

I ask you again to please refrain from adding, subtracting, altering or insinuating anything concocted within your brain into my statement. It can't possibly be a correct interpretation. If you need further clarification, please ask and I will be more than happy to elaborate. But then again, I would prefer that you didn't.

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No one denied that the problem existed.

Hmmm ... okay, so then, if you say that you do not deny that the problem does exist, but that when Bill says that, it is not a "relevant" truth -- (I direct your attention to your own words on Page 1) -- are you saying that it is a problem that does not matter?

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Hmmm ... okay, so then, if you say that you do not deny that the problem does exist, but that when Bill says that, it is not a "relevant" truth are you saying that it is a problem that does not matter?

No. I said that your lame argument that "he's telling the truth" is IRRELEVANT in that it is a weak attempt to try to make it seem like Cosby was saying something that hasn't been said ad infinitum. Talking about a problem that no one else was, save you... you know it seems like you two were/are "the only one's"... lol

But, maybe you actually believed just you and The Cos were the only people who believed there was a problem. Hmmm....

You proof or supporting evidence of that?

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It is a problem that many other people, since Bill said it, have also said does exists.

ER, when you say that after: "Perhaps Bill and I are the only one's that see that there is a problem..." you're crediting Bill Cosby with something as if he inspired the "many other people" you talked about. As if he inspired them or otherwise made them take note of the problem as if they didn't before. Otherwise, you noting that those "many other people" have ALSO said there is a problem SINCE (aka after) Cosby makes no... well, sense.

Or were you just trying to say agreed with Cosby? Hmmm..... If that's the case "ALSO" makes sense but "SINCE" does not.

First, it seems it was just you. Then Bill came along and after him, SINCE he said what he did, magically, other people start writing and talking about the problem as if they never did before.

No. They didn't see the problems before or call them such until Bill came along. (*roll eyes*)

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Now it's time for you to provide some evidence that someone denied there was a problem.

I tell you what, ER... you name a few of those people who have written about the problem since Cosby said what he did and let's see if that was the first time they spoke seriously about the problem.... you know finally acknowledging the problem existed/exists.


Hmmm.... When did Cosby start his "courageous" speaking out? Seems as if there was some acknowledgement of the problem right here in your own backyard. Funny how Faheem placed a strong emphasis on Better Parenting but just happens to be against Bill. How is that? How is that evidence that it seemed like "only you" (and Bill) saw the problem? Marriage or Better parenting?

REPEATING:

Assuming and even granting you that all of Cosby's premises/statements were true and, most importantly, accurate (which was hardly the case) the value of Cosby's statement have to go beyond whether he could identify "sin". Since his statements are patently without any real substance beyond rhetoric then his statements are IRRELEVANT and really are of no transformative worth to the very people he directed his comments to. Again, making them IRRELEVANT (except to those who like Condemnation Preachers - preachin' at other folk as opposed to them - and think that style of preachin' will get and keep you "saved").

Highlighting another discussion held here, I call VOX to the witness stand: (Do you swear to tell the truth... )

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No no no, Nmag... I don't believe Bill's message IS the right one to the people he's talking about. It IS, however, the right one to people who aren't necessarily in that position, but think like him.

I rest my case.

My, how Black folks just love when the preacher ain't preachin' at them. When it's somebody else in the church (or outside...) they scream, "Amen! That's "right"!" Truth be told this is hardly different.