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Bill Cosby is the epitome of a true "Sambo," cause he sure ain't no Uncle Tom!

I've read Michael Eric Dyson's book "Is Bill Cosby Right or Has The Black Middle Class Lost It's Mind?"

He, MED, in my humble opinion is right on point---as he rips Bill Cosby's speech apart inch by inch.

How pathetic--that a/h's like Bill get the media airtime while the true intellectual/educated hero's write books that nobody reads. What a crock...!

Fine

PS And in all his understanding and getting of wisdom I'd be willing to bet Bill hasn't cracked open a corner page of "Uncle Tom's Cabin!"
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http://www.latimes.com/features/lifestyle/cl-et-cosby19...y?coll=la-home-style
Cosby bringing his issues to Compton

By Greg Braxton, Times Staff Writer

Bill Cosby, who ignited a firestorm of debate among African Americans when he chastised poorer blacks on issues ranging from bad grammar to the squandering of opportunities provided by the civil rights movement, will take his crusade today to Compton, a city plagued by a skyrocketing murder rate, a dismal school system and other urban ills.

Cosby, currently touring the country's lower-income communities, will host a "Call Out" at Compton High School. He says he wants to address what he feels is "apathy" in the area and engage residents in a dialogue revolving around parenting, education and social responsibility.

"I do believe we need clarity on what is protection for our youth," Cosby said Monday in a phone interview. "Education should be as important as your child's cough, your child's sneeze, runny nose or high fever. That is part of the protection."

The event marks Cosby's first nonperforming appearance on the West Coast since last year, when his headline-making remarks won praise and criticism from blacks.

At a May 2004 NAACP ceremony commemorating the anniversary of the 1954 Brown vs. Board of Education desegregation decision, Cosby said, "These people marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education and now we have these knuckleheads running around.... I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' ... and I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk.... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth."

Some in the black community congratulated Cosby for his bluntness, saying his comments were painful but accurate. But others felt his tone and some of his words were harmful and elitist. The message inspired a book-length response from University of Pennsylvania humanities professor Michael Eric Dyson: "Is Bill Cosby Right? Or Has the Black Middle Class Lost Its Mind?"

Cosby, who lives in New York, said he was not surprised by the negative reaction: "What they are yelling about has to do with the pain that comes with having the covers pulled off, and responsibility being put in its proper place. I don't feel a challenge from them, I hear them yelling and crying out. I'm looking at the murders and the things that say glaringly, 'There's danger, something is wrong,' and I'm asking my people to wake up."

Local political activist Earl Ofari Hutchinson said this week that Cosby's "comments were vital, but the problem was the framework. It gave the impression that it's only one group that has lousy parents and drug addiction. That was not what was intended, but that's what resonates. It reinforces negative stereotypes about African Americans. There's an overwhelming majority of parents who are doing the right thing."

The Compton event is being organized by photographer Howard Bingham, and has no official association with the city's unified school district. The two sessions are free to the public, but require tickets, which are available through the Compton City Clerk's office or at Compton City Hall.

At 4:30 p.m., Cosby plans to moderate a session dedicated to foster parents and their children, and grandparents raising children.

"I want to give them information on the wonderful opportunities in the junior colleges and community colleges," he said. "The beauty of these colleges is that you can walk in with a young adult, and they will help you find courses and education in areas you are interested in. If young people have made a mistake in life, they're not dead in the water. They can recover and become what they want to become."

A second session at 6:30 p.m. will focus more closely on Compton, which has been struck by a sharp rise in homicides. At least 54 people have been killed so far this year, 11 more than all of last year. At today's event, Cosby says, he will talk about of the city's most famous former residents "” tennis champions Venus and Serena Williams.

"The Williams sisters came right here from Compton," he said. "The examples of achievement are there on every level of this family "” father, mother and children."

Although Compton has suffered for years under a reputation of being a haven for gangs and criminal behavior, Cosby said he has sought in the past to turn the image around. He once suggested to a Compton politician, whom he declined to name, that the city should honor the Williams sisters with a parade. "I said, ... 'They exhibited the mental toughness of being African American in this world, and now they're worldwide celebrities.' "

That was three years ago. "There's been no parade, nothing to honor this achievement," he said. "It's the mind-set of many of our leaders who can't or won't get past this apathy. These are the questions that I want to ask."

Always Remember that: "Anytime We As A People Are Not Having Our WaySomeone Else Is Having Theirs...And It's Never To Our Advantage."

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Fine:

I was there in person when MEDs came to Atlanta to speak.

It is clear to me that MEDs' views will be attractive to the "Michael Moore" types. I nearly bursted out several times in response to the FOOLISHNESS that he was talking. I held back because I THOUGHT I WOULD HAVE A CHANCE TO ASK HIM QUESTIONS in a public form. I thought there would be a chance for an open dialogue since he criticized Cosby in this very speech for making statements but not answering questions in his forum

Boy was I wrong. He took 2 prescreened quesitons from the audience that were written on index cards SUPPOSEDLY by people as they walked in.

Bill Cosby has nothing to worry about in taking on criticism from you or MED. He has given millions of his own money to educate Blacks. He has his media products that are used to educate and build character in children of all colors.

MEDs has a book that leeches off of Cosby's fame. MEDs receives a check from his publisher about his book. Please tell me what, besides liberal theories has MEDs ever done?

In the mind of MEDs: Tupac is an all American Hero BUT Bill Cosby should be castigated by us all as a bad character. bs

GOTCHA dude.
It is documented in my posts that I support the intent of Cosby's position. I also agree with his comment in current piece that 'pain' is a large reason for the response.

I don't here anyone criticising Cosby say he is wrong, including Dyson.

Everyone criticizing Cosby cite 'how' he said, 'when' he said it, 'that' he said it, especially 'out loud' and in public.

Not equating Cosby to Dr. King, but...

MLK was talked about in the same terms Dyson uses for Cosby. I'm not aware anyone wrote a book, but 'they' called MLK everything but 'a child of God.'

I say that to say that after the furor is over, the cricumstance will be the same. The need will be the same.

Someone has to stand up and take the resposibility for changing the way our children are entering the rest of their lives.

The parents seem like a good place to begin the search.

PEACE

Jim Chester
"Although Compton has suffered for years under a reputation of being a haven for gangs and criminal behavior, Cosby said he has sought in the past to turn the image around. He once suggested to a Compton politician, whom he declined to name, that the city should honor the Williams sisters with a parade. "I said, ... 'They exhibited the mental toughness of being African American in this world, and now they're worldwide celebrities."

....but Cosby left out the worst part, because the leadership of Compton and South Central Los Angeles has kept these areas in poverty, which makes this a breeding ground for criminal activity, the proliferation of gangs, etc.,etc.

*********************

....For those who don't know or who are not aware.....

1. former Congressman Walter Tucker was indicted and convicted for accepting bribes, and stealing from the taxpayers of the residents of Compton.

2. former assemblywoman Pat Moore was was indicted and convicted for accepting bribes, and stealing from the taxpayers of the residents of Compton.

3. former Mayor Omar Bradley was was indicted and convicted for accepting bribes, and stealing from the taxpayers of the residents of Compton.

4. The Compton Unified School District, and Compton College have been taken over by the State of California on more than one occasion because the employees were on the take, stealing virtually anything that is not welded down. Heck so much graft, embezzlement, cheating, sleeping on the job, reporting to work while under the influence of illicit drugs, etc., etc., that it made it exceeding difficult to provide a quality educational experience, finance the purchase of textbooks for students, learning aids, provide classroom computers, maintain classrooms, bathrooms, and other facilities.

5. Killer/King Hospital and Charles Drew Medical School is on the edge of Compton, may to lose accredidation, or face being closed down, and may lose millions of dollars in federal subsidies as a result of all the incompetence, the stealing, the greed, the sleaze, on the part of should I mention who........

6. Game playing, using false pretences to hold elected office, Brentwood Yvonne B. Burke, no good serving foreign interests at the expense of Compton Merv Dymally, Maxine Kerosene Waters, carpetbagging caught with his pants down having lewd sex with a prostitute Assemblyman Kevin Murray, and/or other Black elected officials have known about, or contributed to this activity for decades, by remaining silent to protect personal friends, themselves, and/or to maintain the status quo.


...but Oh, well let us not be truthful. It is better to play the race card, and easier to blame Caucasians, Republicans, conservatives, to say these individuals are all at fault......

....... even though the Democratic Party, through our own misfit Black elected leaders, and poverty pimps have been large and in charge in Compton, and South Central Los Angeles, since 1965.

The employees found stealing include Black teachers, principals, other school administrators, secretaries, janitors, cafeteria workers, maintenance employees, and virtually every other classification working within Compton. Hispanics have also been found guilty of the same offenses, but the number of Hispanics caught stealing, cheating, lying, etc., from the City of Compton is not nearly as pronounced as the number Black people caught stealing from one of the most economically deprived corruption prone communities in the State of California. Mind you, many of these individuals on the take are university graduates who possess B.S., B.A., M.S., M.A., and even Doctorate Degrees.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
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quote:
Originally posted by Fine:
Bill Cosby is the epitome of a true "Sambo," cause he sure ain't no Uncle Tom!

I've read Michael Eric Dyson's book "Is Bill Cosby Right or Has The Black Middle Class Lost It's Mind?"


Here's Barbara Ehrenreich with how wrong she thinks his now numerous temper tantrums are:

  • As for the black youth who so exercise Cosby, their pregnancy rates aren't "soaring," as he reportedly claimed; in fact, they're lower than they've been in decades. Ditto with crime rates. And if Cosby's worried about poor grammar and so forth, why isn't he ranting about the Bush 2005 budget, which would end a slew of programs for dropout prevention, recreation and school counseling?
    Or, if he's looking for tantrum fodder, what about the fact that a black baby has a 40 percent chance of being born into poverty? You can blame adults for their poverty, if you're mean-spirited enough, but you cannot blame babies, and that's, in effect, what we're talking about here.

    As the sociologist Michael Males, who monitors youth-bashing outbreaks, told me: "Younger black America today is struggling admirably against massive disinvestments in schools, terrible unemployment, harsh policing and degrading prejudices, and they're succeeding amazingly well. They deserve respect, not grown-up tantrums."
He is bound and determined to continue making specious arguments. The casual listener hears what seems like sensible, albeit uncomfortable, truths, that is until his words are critically analyzed and you find the many reckless factual errors.

Finally, as someone else said, "And on top of that, he isn't all that funny."
Bill is intent on using his public influence to deride all poor Blacks.

The poor have issues that are multifaceted, yet his supposed analyses are oversimplified and one dimensional. As some have pointed out, Eric Dyson in particular, Bill hasn't shown himself to be intellectually capable of exploring a "nuanced view" of the issues poor people face. It matters not what one's intentions are, being Black does not imbue you with the intellect to authoritatively and publicly pass judgment on Black folks, neither does being well-to-do.

A sister named Green broke it down on her blog. It read, in part:

  • To fully solve a problem, you have to first clearly define it. When it's defined incorrectly, the solution is more than likely incorrect as well. When you define the problem of the poor as a simple one of lack of personal responsibility, then the simple solution and overemphasis of personal responsibility is incomplete and unfair. Poverty is not a black problem. There are more white people in poverty than blacks. But poverty is not a white problem either. When you start stripping the racial biases out of the picture, you can properly define the problem. When you take the time to realize and acknowledge the many things keeping people in poverty including lack of neighborhood jobs, inadequate child care service assistance, lack of affordable housing, insufficient wages and availability of full time jobs, etc., then you're able to start working towards a solution that can be tailored towards individual needs and effective in combating poverty.

    It's dangerous to pass judgment on and shame an entire group of people based on the highly publicized actions of a few. It's also dangerous to look at a class of people and assign specific negative characteristics to them. Saying all poor people are lazy is like saying all rich people are crooks. Prominent leaders criticize the poor for not being financially responsible, being poor parents that keep their children in poverty, failing to resist consumerism, etc. Why is it ok for these people to require more from the poor than they do of themselves? Why can't leaders call for personal responsibility from the poor, middle class, and upper class? The majority of middle class consumers spend irresponsibly and are saddled with credit card debt and increasingly considering declaring bankruptcy. 70% of Americans don't attend college. Why is it only poor parents who are held to this strict standard of perfection to produce college-attending children when many other families are unable to do so, with way more intellectual, environmental, social, financial and emotional resources to do so? Poor parenting plagues all classes. Lack of educational resources plague all of America. Until we define the problem appropriately and fairly instead of targeting vulnerable and specific groups of people, we will never work towards a comprehensive and fair solution.

    I heard arguments from people saying that the poor are lazy and not working/trying hard enough. There's an article I read that said 58% of those living below poverty are working full time during the year. An additional 33% work part time during the year. The article went on to demonstrate an analysis that even if all persons below the poverty line obtained full time jobs (assuming those jobs were available), 68% would still be living in poverty. That statistic alone speaks volumes as to the need for public policy to step in where personal responsibility cannot possibly be enough.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
Fine:

I was there in person when MEDs came to Atlanta to speak.

It is clear to me that MEDs' views will be attractive to the "Michael Moore" types. I nearly bursted out several times in response to the FOOLISHNESS that he was talking. I held back because I THOUGHT I WOULD HAVE A CHANCE TO ASK HIM QUESTIONS in a public form. I thought there would be a chance for an open dialogue since he criticized Cosby in this very speech for making statements but not answering questions in his forum

Boy was I wrong. He took 2 prescreened quesitons from the audience that were written on index cards SUPPOSEDLY by people as they walked in.

Bill Cosby has nothing to worry about in taking on criticism from you or MED. He has given millions of his own money to educate Blacks. He has his media products that are used to educate and build character in children of all colors.

MEDs has a book that leeches off of Cosby's fame. MEDs receives a check from his publisher about his book. Please tell me what, besides liberal theories has MEDs ever done?

In the mind of MEDs: Tupac is an all American Hero BUT Bill Cosby should be castigated by us all as a bad character. bs

GOTCHA dude.


The Michael Moore types? Is that suppose to be insulting? What is a Michael Moore type. Sound like you drinking that Vannity and Bimbaugh Juice.

I attended MED's lecture and book signing and he answered well over twenty questions, and this was right after he apeared on C-Span with Debra Dickerson. I think you have it backwards, in MED's mind Cosby is the "All American Hero".
quote:
Why is it only poor parents who are held to this strict standard of perfection to produce college-attending children when many other families are unable to do so, with way more intellectual, environmental, social, financial and emotional resources to do so?
That's because so many of these "All American Heroes" have bought into the American MYTHS and believe more in "America" then they do in their people.

"America" gets a pass. The underlying attitude is, whether it's attributed to the Civil Rights Movement or whatever, "enough has been done" for you to do "better" or rather do as much as I have done.

It's at once an Egocentric and Eurocentric view.
It's all based on individualism, a European Cultural Ethic. You see very little in the way of Cosby et al coming up with creative ways - i.e. ones that are different from the [White] social norms - to deal with and address the "problem."

And, yes... It's all about the wrong or such a narrow definition of the "problem".
Isome--No, Bill Cosby is neither funny nor correct in his indictments, the manner in which he initially delivered his indictments and his lack of solution/resolution.

He 'never' participated in the 'Civil Rights' Struggle as did Harry Bellafonte in the 1960, he was [toooo] busy making 'I Spy' movies with Robert Culp.

Right after he made those indictments about 'the garbage that gets out of school at 3pm' I kept waiting for something sensible to come out of his mouth--it never happened.

His come back was "Fat Albert" -- LOL -- what a joke, but as you stated, not too funny...!

Fine
My introduction to this board was a thread on Bill Cosby. Overall, I share the thoughts of JWC regarding Cosby's tour.

Here's an excerpt from an interview with Dyson:

You, yourself, as a professor at the University of Pennsylvania, know that Cosby's following is hardly based on his wealth. Why do you think the black middle class has been so moved by his call for individual responsibility?


--Of course, taken in one sense, a lot of what he said we can agree with. None of us want our children to be murderers or thieves. But Cosby never acknowledges that most poor blacks don't have a choice about these things.

The full text is here: http://www.refuseandresist.org/article-print.php?aid=1846

Do you agree with Dyson's assessment? Being poor leaves you no choice as to whether you are lawless?

Fine - I asked this question in the last thread about Cosby & Dyson. I did not see any recommendations in his book to counter Cosby's solutions (which are based in individual responsibility). In your eyes, did Dyson present any creative (to borrow Nmag's description) solutions to issues raised by Cosby?

Finally, is this comment telling of Dyson's motives (IMO) to ride the coattails of a controversial event for personal gain (I've never seen evidence of Dyson attempting to correct the social ills affecting poor Blacks)? :

Have you ever met him?

--No. I talked to him one time on the phone, and it was not a hateful conversation.

Will you send him a copy of your book and inscribe it affectionately?

--Sure. As our friends in the Cosa Nostra say: This is business. It's not personal.
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:

I attended MED's lecture and book signing and he answered well over twenty questions, and this was right after he apeared on C-Span with Debra Dickerson. I think you have it backwards, in MED's mind Cosby is the "All American Hero".


Nmaginate:

Did you attend the event in ATLANTA?

In ATLANTA - my point of reference in my posting HE TOOK 2 QUESTIONS THAT WERE PRESCREENED ON AN INDEX CARD.

I SHOULD HAVE STOOD UP AND MADE MY VERBAL ASSAULTS ON HIS FOOLISHNESS AFTER ALL. I allowed my civility to trump my building anger at what I was hearing from this FOOL.
quote:
massive disinvestments in schools, terrible unemployment, harsh policing and degrading prejudices,


Isome:

Can you document where the "massive disinvestment in public schools" is?

"Terrible Unemployment" yes - among those who don't have the skills necessary to fill the abundant jobs that are STILL available but require advanced education to fill them.

"Harsh Policing" has never made a single neighborhood in America a "haven for crime and drugs".

"degrading prejudices"
You mean like when one guy who is dressed in a certain "uniform" (long white Tee, etc) walks out on paying his bar tab and the owner of the place becomes "prejudiced" as he notices a certain pattern and demands that certain folks pay for their food at the time of service. That type of "prejudice". Huh?
quote:
Can you document where the "massive disinvestment in public schools" is?


Googled "Public School Disinvestment" - 146,000 hits; Google "unfunded+no child left behind" 282,000 hits

Want ta read about it? Well, here ya go.

But then, you didn't ask me did ya Big Grin

snip

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0316/p03s01-uspo.html

Last week, the National Conference of State Legislators reported that NCLB requirements will cost the states $9.6 billion in FY 2004, and that federal funding doesn't cover this new "unfunded mandate."

***Note: the first page is split between pro and con NCLB as being funded. However, the pro funded articles are mostly written by pro-NCLB groups like the Heritage Foundation; whereas, the non-funded position is written by Teacher Organizations. I have chosen an article from the Christian Science Monitor: a paper known for its journalistic integrity.

snip

http://www.asu.edu/educ/epsl/CERU/Documents/disinvest.htm

Real-World Money Problems

If the popularity of charter schools demonstrates anything, it is America's enduring faith that major educational reforms can be accomplished on the cheap. Charter school reformers in Massachusetts and elsewhere have sold the idea that charter schools won't cost anyone anything--a real win-win reform. This fiscal miracle is accomplished by a budgetary sleight of hand in which the money to educate charter school students is, for the most part, taken out of state aid to the district in which the student lives. In the case of hard-pressed urban school systems such as Boston's, such financing further undermines the district's ability to serve the children attending its schools.

snip

http://www.washlaw.org/projects/public_ed/leaving_child...ort.htm#introduction

INTRODUCTION AND EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
This Report analyzes the current status of the District's efforts to modernize its crumbling school buildings. Five years ago, following an assessment of each of the District's school facilities, it was widely recognized that the physical condition of the District's schools was disastrous. After decades of failing either to build new schools or even to make the minimal repairs necessary to maintain the existing buildings, students in our Nation's Capital attended public schools which impaired their education and, at times, threatened their health and safety. To its credit, the D.C. Public School System ("DCPS") faced up to these longstanding problems in a reasonable and rational way – in consultation with experts and community members, it developed a Facility Master Plan to modernize our schools over a 10-15 year period. Consistent with the Master Plan, DCPS has completed modernization of four schools and is nearing completion of the modernization of six more schools.

Now, however, just two years into implementation of the Master Plan, funding cuts threaten to halt this modernization plan. The FY 2004 Budget and Financial Plan sent by the Mayor and Council to Congress provides far less funding than is needed to maintain, much less modernize, our city's schools. Most ominously, the Proposed Budget for FY 2007 proposes a paltry $21 million in capital funds for DCPS and calls for no capital funding whatsoever for FY 2008 and 2009. The Proposed Budget also calls for a reduction in DCPS's maintenance budget for FY 2004 from $44 million to $17 million.

The dire need to fix the District's school facilities remains. We do not need a blue ribbon panel or a legislative study to address this critical problem. We already have a carefully constructed Master Plan to modernize our schools over the next 10-15 years, and a maintenance budget request from DCPS for FY 2004 that would maintain them in a minimally sufficient way in the meantime. It is now simply a matter for our lawmakers to fund these plans.


snip

http://www.thenationalforum.org/news_guarantee.shtml

Michael Boulus, executive director of the Presidents Council, State Universities of Michigan: Senate Bill 246 and House Bill 4582 are modest, positive and achievable steps toward restoring state support for public education at all levels.

The legislation would provide inflationary increases in public education funding for schools, community colleges, and four-year universities.

The timing of this initiative could not be better nor the urgency more intense. Given the dramatic disinvestment in funding of our K-16 education system that has occurred at a time when Michigan's economy is being restructured into one that requires a high-skilled work force, nothing less is needed that at least an annual minimum inflationary increase in education spending.

In just the past three years, the state has cut nearly $300 million from higher education while our campuses educate a growing number of students.

That amounts to nearly $1,100 less being spent on each student -- $1,800 less if you consider the impact of inflation and enrollment growth.
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:

It's at once an Egocentric and Eurocentric view.
It's all based on individualism, a European Cultural Ethic.
.


Nmag - I'm not too sure about the above statement. I believe the base collective unit is the nuclear family. From there, you build up to larger collective units. Cosby's words target the base collective. If parents reinforce values X, Y, & Z in their households, then your larger collective units begin to reinforce the same values (if all of the base collective units share the same values). I think Cosby wants to reset the core values taught in the African-American nuclear family.

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