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More for CF....
quote:
Responding to the charge that they have no philosophy, no authenticity, and no relevance to African American political culture, black conservatives have sought to substantiate their ideas (and their very existence) by enlisting prominent figures, including not only Malcolm X but also Booker T. Washington, Frederick Douglass, Marcus Garvey, Zora Neale Hurston, and Martin Luther King, Jr. As Elizabeth Wright, editor of the black conservative newsletter Issues and Views, has put it, "making claim to historic figures in order to promote a position or cause is an age-old practice." It is also a practice that makes a good deal of strategic sense as they struggle to legitimate their views.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/d/dillard-guess.html?oref=login
LIke I say to "them White Boys".... WELL DOCUMENTED. And...
quote:
Proclaiming that "black conservatives are the real nationalists," Elizabeth Wright, along with Walter Williams and other frequent contributors to Issues and Views, has been waging a battle to wrestle the mantle of black nationalism from Louis Farrakhan and assorted afrocentrists"”even though there are obvious similarities between them. Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam are religious fundamentalists and economic nationalists. The Nation's economic philosophy, like that advocated by Issues and Views, is a version of black entrepreneurial capitalism; its social philosophy stresses the patriarchal family, supports the death penalty, and deems homosexuality to be sick and unnatural. But there the comparison stops.

The problem with Farrakhan and the Nation for Wright and other black nationalist conservatives are the qualities that render him, in their eyes, a black fascist: his continued support of the separate black state ideal, his denunciation of interracial sex as an offense to the value of racial purity, his anti-Semitism and his antiwhite rhetoric.
CF, your FANTASTIC SAM-isms make this desperate but popular ploy by those of you who are POLITICALLY Black & Conservative (as opposed to socially... Don't Make Me Get VOX On You!) so pathetically funny.

quote:
Efforts by black conservatives to create an intellectual tradition from within the African American canon have been... controversial.

...The general climate of opinion among leftist African American intellectuals appears to be that ["The Sowells, Walter Williams, Crouches, Playtoy Beenyesmen, Glenn Lourys, Roy Innises, Melvin Williams, Juan Williams, and Thomas Ass Clarences"] and other "neoaccomodationist-conservative black spokespersons," to borrow a phrase from Manning Marable, represent a crisis of contemporary black political culture.

Marable, along with other black leftists such as Adolph Reed, has been especially vigilant in denouncing the efforts of black conservatives to seek legitimation in the past. They claim, overall, that black conservatives have no organic relationship to the African American past and no real political, cultural, or emotional ties to African Americans in the present. Instead, Marable and Reed claim, black conservatives have simply inserted themselves into a predominately white discourse on race...
And so the question remains: WHERE IS THE BLACK CONSERVATIVE or CONSERVATIVE BLACK Point Of Departure from WHITE CONSERVATIVISM (when it comes to politics)??

Certainly, CF... when it comes to AA, things you say are verbatim WHITE RHETORIC. Painting BLACK FACE on it doesn't camouflage it. But there are so many other views. And, NO, your Black Conservativism doesn't even begin to mesh with Garvey, Farrakhan or anyone else like that you can name.

A play on words, SEMANTIC WONDERS, are no substitute for SUBSTANCE. Your views lack even the bear minimum of those who are and always have been firmly On The "Radical, Hard Left"... You are no Garvey, No Farrakhan and certainly No Malcolm X. You don't even begin to have such depth.
quote:
Dude, again... None of those people you name fit into your category of a CONSERVATIVE. This ridiculous attempt to MISAPPROPRIATE those people who, while they are in some respects, by some definitions, "conservative"... does not work. You can't separate all that they were in an attempt to get your half-assed ideology some props.


AGAIN - You and OTHERS have introduced the label "Black Conservative" into the dialogue.

I asked for a DEFINITION OF "BLACK CONSERVATIVE".

Since the opposite of conservative in it's common use is "liberal" I asked you if you believed that Garvey, X and Farrakhan were "Black Liberals"?

I DID NOT ASK YOU IF THEY "FIT THE TYPICAL MOLD OF A BLACK CONSERVATIVE", a point that you have not even defined but still make use of.

I told you before THE LABEL "BLACK CONSERVATIVE" is meaningless to me and does not adequately describe my consciousness. I believe in the importance of a CULTURE to TRANSFORM people.

Many of you believe that in your SUPPOSED "compassion" as you discard any EXPECTATIONS of people that YOU ARE ACTUALLY HELPING THEM. YOU ARE NOT. The fact that they haven't TRANSFORMED their own behavior after years of your altruism should be evidence enough that you need to change course.

IT MATTERS NOT what you do to help them as you work to "cleanse your soul". IT MATTERS MORE WHAT THEY DO to accept these higher standards that YOU HAVE FOR THEM.

You all are little different than the all White church doing a service project where they come into DA HOOD and clean up the streets while the able body Black folks look at them and say "these White folks are crazy" and/or "all that is so nice!!! THEY CARE FOR US".

Sadly it is true that the are "CARING FOR YOU"!!! Until you see this as a problem and NOT STRIKE OUT AGAINST THEM but instead YOU ADOPT THE STANDARD OF CLEANLINESS OF YOUR STREET THAT MADE YOU FEEL GOOD ONCE THEY LEFT - you can be sure that the street will return to it's former state AND YOU WILL BE ASKING THE WHITE FOLKS TO RETURN FOR ANOTHER DOSE OF "CARE".

Deprogramming the brainwashing takes time folks.
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I told you before THE LABEL "BLACK CONSERVATIVE" is meaningless to me and does not adequately describe my consciousness. I believe in the importance of a CULTURE to TRANSFORM people.
CF... FUCK that bullshit ass rhetoric. You know you are an avowed CONservative. You rail against "liberals"... so by your own definition, you are the "opposite" - i.e. a CONservative. It matters not whether you are an Armstrong Williams, Tom Sowell, Card Carrying Black Conservative. You are Black & (a professed) CONservative nonetheless. Quit trying to hide from BS you can't defend.

And I placed, because they have long sinced been placed on the RADICAL HARD LEFT, Garvey, Malcolm and Farrakhan in their proper place. Their political ideologies can't properly be described as simply "conservative" now or then.

So you MISAPPROPRIATION attempt fails again.
You have no company with/among neither of those mentionables.

And save the rest of that BULLSHIT!

quote:
Many of you believe that in your SUPPOSED "compassion" as you discard any EXPECTATIONS of people that YOU ARE ACTUALLY HELPING THEM. YOU ARE NOT. The fact that they haven't TRANSFORMED their own behavior after years of your altruism should be evidence enough that you need to change course.
Stupid ass RHETORIC. Real fuckin' STUPID talking to me. But it shows you won't actually engage... I, for one, sit squarely within that Black Nationalist/Pan-Africanist ideological tradition. So that BULLSHIT is lost on me.

quote:
I asked you if you believed that Garvey, X and Farrakhan were "Black Liberals"?
And which side do you believe the RADICAL HARD LEFT is on? The political CONservative side or the LIBERAL one?

Misappropriation GAME OVER!

Your wolf tickets are in my pockets!
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

Many of you believe that in your SUPPOSED "compassion" as you discard any EXPECTATIONS of people that YOU ARE ACTUALLY HELPING THEM.


I'll ask again - for the 1,000th time seemingly: bang

CAN YOU PLEASE DEMONSTRATE WHERE ONE (JUST ONE CF) AFRICAN AMERICAN "LEADER" HAS SUGGESTED THAT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS NOT A PART OF OUR UPLIFT? I'll even help you out on this one. Let's take one of your favorites I'm sure: Jesse Jackson. Where has Jesse said that there is no onus on us to be the best that we can be? Please show me this.
NMAGINATE:

In order to enforce DISCIPLINE in both my argument and the label that I make use of for myself I HAVE DISCONTINUED THE USE OF THE LABELS "BLACK LIBERAL" and "BLACK CONSERVATIVE". While I do admit that it is easier to make use of this label, in reality neither describe the THOUGHTS and IDEOLOGY of the intended group.

I have updated my label to "Black Quasi-Socialist Progressive Fundementalist" to describe the popular ideology among those who take the stage as "Black Leaders", having removed "liberal" and replaced it with "quasi-socialist" BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE.

When you listen to most of the solutions that they speak of for Black people MOST OF THEM involve the hand of the broader government to CONFISCATE wealth that has been organized by others operating in the free market and REDISTRIBUTING IT to other folks based on their NEEDS. (CLASSIC SOCIALISM)

Despite all of their BLACK NATIONALISTIC claims you can better believe that THEY AIN'T GOING NO WHERE ELSE because they don't preside over a system that can PRODUCE THE STANDARD OF LIVING that they currently live within. Instead their hope is to introduce government policy within this country that will LIFT THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE "WITHOUT" UP TO THE "AMERICAN STANDARD OF LIVING" WITHOUT ASKING THE PEOPLE BEING LIFTED TO CHANGE THEIR THOUGHTS AND BEHAVIOR SO THAT THEIR ACTIONS CAN PRODUCE SUCH A STANDARD.

Again I say - the biggest fear that many of you must have is to FIND YOURSELF OUTSIDE OF THIS CAPITALISTIC SYSTEM THAT YOU DERIDE SO OFTEN. You would come face to face with the impact of your own THEORIES and THESE THEORIES would be the main means of deciding your standard of living.

If you notice most of the STRUGGLE that the leaders that you prefer is focused on EXTERNAL change for the comfort of Black folks. This was a necessary focus when the laws of this society allowed White folks to operate with impunity against Black folks. In today's world, however, were there are CONSEQUENCES for acting in such a manner and where most of the "low hanging fruit" of systematic racism has been addressed (please note that I DID NOT SAY "THERE IS NO RACISM OR THAT THERE IS NO SYSTEMATIC RACISM") these Civil Rights Era "leaders" have not changed with the time. They know that the sure shot way to keep "Black Unity" is to tap into the RESERVED OF RESENTMENT that is among us.

Unfortunately - you cannot base a FORWARD MOVEMENT on "resentment"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This flaw is why the same people who are up in arms if there is a hint of racism surrounding a Black person's homocide IS DEAFLY SILENT at the sight of the ten events of Black on Black homocide that take place in between these "racial events". Because there is no racial angle to exploit the MANAGEMENT PRACTICES of these leaders are NULL AND VOID and INEFFECTIVE.

They will instead try to get the "Black community" to wonder "where are these guns coming from" or interestingly enough "Why are the cops allowing US TO KILL EACH OTHER?"

THE SCHEME IS EXPOSED FOLKS!!!

The state that we are in INSIDE OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY is a result of years of INATTENTION TOWARD THE TRUTH!!!! It is not going to change over night. The TRANSFORMATION is going to be painful AND WE WILL CARRY THE BULK OF THE LOAD, but also experience the bulk of the benefit.

Most of the problem is CULTURALLY BASED. The solution is CULTURALLY BASED AS WELL.

Each time you have NO STANDARDS OR EXPECTATIONS of the people within your community THEY WILL SURELY LIVE DOWN TO YOUR STANDARDS.

We need a new crop of leaders that talk TOWARD BLACK PEOPLE, leadining us INWARD rather than OUTWARD for change. Holding people accountable does not necessarily mean PUNITIVE action against them when it is PREVENTIVE ACTION to lead toward a different end.
I'd like to ask a question that I think is nestled in CF's last post:

Who are today's standard bearers in the African-American community & what message do you perceive them to convey to Black America & America in general?

In the 60-70s, you could clearly look to Malcolm, Martin, Andrew Young, Ralph Abernathy, Charlanye (sp?) Hunter-Gault, Maynard Jackson and others as leaders of the community. Through their actions & words, you could see the merit and sincerity of their efforts. Is this clarity of mission & focus present in today's Black leaders in the opinion of AA.org members?

I think the disparity is at this point - who we each consider as today's standard bearers in the Black community and what we think of their actions & words.
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Who are today's standard bearers in the African-American community & what message do you perceive them to convey to Black America & America in general?


Brother man - YOU HIT UPON THE KEY POINT THAT I HAVE BEEN MAKING ON THIS BOARD FOR MORE THAN 4 MONTHS!!!!!!!!

Rather than allowing MAJORITY FORCE to trample over everyone else

PUT THAT MAJORITY CONSCIOUSNESS UP FOR INSPECTION TO SEE IF IT IS WORTHY TO BE FOLLOWED BASED ON IT'S ABILITY TO TRANSFORM THE COMMUNITY TOWARD OUR COMMON GOALS!!!!

If folks believe that GOD has bestowed them with the magical insight on "everything Black" then why are they fearful of being held accountable to THESE GOALS?

WE NEED "DEMOCRACY INSIDE THE BLACK COMMUNITY".

What we see now is ENFORCED UNITY. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that on this very board as is the case in general among Black folks EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THE LINE TO TOW:

As an example -
"Protect any Black man that is WITHIN THE CLIQUE [Mayor Nagin] and Blame everything on the known antagonist [BUSH, etc]". (Please note - I DID NOT SAY THAT BUSH WAS FAULTLESS IN THIS MATTER).

After we have formulated an understanding based on the game MANY OF US don't allow FACTS to alter what OUR TRUTH. As a result rather than pursuing TRUTH we venture into CT's and other thoughts and associations that don't model reality in our community. This is fine for people who want to be left open for political manipulation. IT IS NOT FINE FOR PEOPLE ATTEMPTING TO SOLVE PROBLEMS IN THEIR COMMUNITY.


WE NEED TO IMPLEMENT THE CONCEPT OF "MANAGEMENT TOWARD EFFECTIVENESS", purging things that AIN'T WORKING because all of the evidence says so. ADOPTING NEW IDEAS and scrutinizing them as well.
ddouble ...

I cannot offer you a thoughtful response to your question, sorry. Smile

I do not see any real beacons of light as far as Black "leaders" are concerned. A leader has to have a following ... and even though there are many Black activists that are outspoken, they do not in great numbers have the community behind them supporting them in their efforts, nor do they seem to be really putting forth effort toward matters and issues that are really important and that really matter.

I see and read about many, many organizations that are doing great and wonderful things, mainly at the local level, in various communities. People and organizations that are NEVER heard about in the domestic media. There are many nameless heros out there making a difference in the lives of a lot of our youths, but you'll never know who they are because their stories are not important enough to show on CNN.

But for those that the cameras dofollow around ... I wouldn't call them leaders.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

What we see now is ENFORCED UNITY. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that on this very board as is the case in general among Black folks EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THE LINE TO TOW:

As an example -
"Protect any Black man that is WITHIN THE CLIQUE [Mayor Nagin] and Blame everything on the known antagonist [BUSH, etc]". (Please note - I DID NOT SAY THAT BUSH WAS FAULTLESS IN THIS MATTER).


This is the most ridiculous thing I have read here in a long time. Even from you.

1) Please define "enforced unity". Please articulate who decides what we are to unite behind and how this unity is enforced. BTW - since Bush is paying off many black ministers with faith based initiaitive money - how is it that they are somehow falling outside the power of this enforcement? Are they receiving Secret Service or some other federal protection? lol

2) Please define how "on this very board" that enforcement is executed, who is setting the standard, and how those outside the norm are punished or rebuked. Are you so egocentric and eccentric that just because people call you on your BS that you think there is some concerted "enforcement" against you? Since I founded and moderate this community am I somehow the enforcer here? I'm the bad guy or have I hired, say, Nmaginate to be my 'strong arm'? laugh

3) In this very thread EbonyRose articulated her belief that most black leaders are not worth much. Should she watch her back now for fear of some kind of retribution? nono

4) Why is it so hard for you to conceive of the notion that Bush gets the criticism he does because he deserves it? Why can't you fathom a group of people who have been maligned and abused by a president articulating negative feelings toward him? Isn't that fairly basic human nature?

CF - you are so full of these conspiracy-laden notions about the black community that it is truly pathological. You need to open your eyes and see the world for what it really is. Have you ever wondered why you are always the 'odd man out'? Look in the mirror and think about the things that you say/write.

Please.

BTW - it's perfectly alright to hold political beliefs that are unique and different. Just lose the conspiracy bullshit and come correct with logic and common sense.

Also - you continue to criticize any progressive or liberal ideology or leader. I'll broaden my earlier question that you refuse to answer. Name anyone other than a progressive or liberal or Democrat who has consistently been good for the black community.

Just one.
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CF.... FUCK THE RHETORIC!!
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If you notice most of the STRUGGLE that the leaders that you prefer is focused on EXTERNAL change for the comfort of Black folks.
You mentioned Farrakhan because of what?
Is his "focus" INTERNAL? EXTERNAL? or BOTH?

And please list "the leaders I prefer".
Again, you're trying to step as if you're in/within my ideological tradition by referencing (or rather trying to misappropriate) Garvey, Malcolm X, etc.

Ummm... Those would be my preferences... And notice Farrakhan hasn't gone anywhere. Malcolm didn't either. I GOT YOUR WOLF TICKETS right here!

quote:
SPELLMAN: How religious is the Muslim Mosque Inc.? Will it be more politically oriented?

MALCOLM X: The Muslim Mosque Inc. will have as its religious base the religion of Islam which will be designed to propagate the moral reformation necessary to up the level of the so-called Negro community by eliminating the vices and other evils that destroy the moral fiber of the community"”this is the religious base. But the political philosophy of the Muslim Mosque will be black nationalism, the economic philosophy will be black nationalism, and the social philosophy will be black nationalism. And by political philosophy I mean we still believe in the Honorable Elijah Muhammad's solution as complete separation. The 22,000,000 so-called Negroes should be separated completely from America and should be permitted to go back home to our African homeland which is a long-range program; so the short-range program is that we must eat while we're still here, we must have a place to sleep, we have clothes to wear, we must have better jobs, we must have better education; so that although our long-range political philosophy is to migrate back to our African homeland, our short-range program must involve that which is necessary to enable us to live a better life while we are still here. We must be in complete control of the politics of the so-called Negro community; we must gain complete control over the politicians in the so-called Negro community, so that no outsider will have any voice in the so-called Negro community. We'll do it ourselves.

http://www.monthlyreview.org/564mx.htm
Notice how when you make vain and empty ass (and curious) professions like:
Note that I DID NOT SAY "THERE IS NO RACISM OR THAT THERE IS NO SYSTEMATIC RACISM"
... how clear it is that you have no clue what the hell you are talking about.

The proof will come when you answer this:
quote:
In today's world... where most of the "low hanging fruit" of systematic racism has been addressed these Civil Rights Era "leaders" have not changed with the time.
Ummm... Your incoherence aside (i.e. What does this have to do with YOU and Farrakhan Et Al and US?), DETAIL every "Fruit", low or high hanging, that is SYSTEMATIC RACISM. By doing that, we can fact check your Rhetorical Ass and see if what you list as SYSTEMATIC RACISM and those things you say that have been "addressed" actually amount to "MOST"... Dude, when you make/made remarks about Fantastics Sams, it showed beyond all doubt that you truly don't have a clue what is meant by SYSTEMATIC RACISM. And no, the laws of Segregation, etc. were the MOST SUPERFICIAL elements of systematic, structural racism/WHITE SUPREMACY.

But, let's see you account for those things on your list. You say "most"... then tell us what was "addressed" and what is left To Be Addressed. This is a claim of yours I know (I bet) you cannot and will not substantiate. It is what I have called all your statements: Mere Superfluous, Disingenuous, Untruthful RHETORIC - i.e. you don't mean that shit. You trying to say, "I didn't say there isn't RACISM..." if irrelevant. You and I both know your whole purpose is to say or rather dismiss RACISM, systematic or otherwise, as something that is OF CONSEQUENCE - i.e. that has an measureable and negative overall EFFECT. Your point is to say that it has NO EFFECT or CONSEQUENCE of which to speak of. That's why, on a board where your EITHER OR mentally is rejected because of its illogic and irresponsibleness... you keep trying to project your Narrowminded and one-sidedness on others as if they are the same as you, only the opposite.

So, you have come up with the inane FALSE DICHOTOMY that you represent an INWARD focus while others here, problematically, represent an OUTWARD focus. Notice how you've tried to AVOID whether your type of INWARD *ONLY* focus - i.e. making your professions about "there is racism" vain because you have nothing to say in terms of confronting, dismantling or otherwise counteracting it - has been *fruitful*... Notice how you ran to Farrakhan, hardly someone in your camp, to find cover from the truth that always makes you run. CF, the question is: WHAT HAS YOUR TYPE OF CONSERVATIVISM DONE FOR THE BLACK COMMUNITY?

And even if you want to use Farrakhan... Has he even through the Million Man March, etc. "TRANSFORMED" the Black Community? Where you there standing with Farrakhan as he indicted White America in Washington? What is it about Farrakhan, whom your WHITE and BLACK CONservatives counterparts alike view as someone who talks about WHITE RACISM (hmmm.... he sure isn't someone who shares your view that "most of the systematic racism has been addressed") that you dare think gives your lonely ideology a home among those philosophies and leaders who, despite whatever real or perceived faults, have earned the respect of the Black Community because they have produced results, whether material or cultural-spiritual?

Farrkhan being "conservative" and you being "conservative" grants you no props.
Equivocating will get you nowhere. Only you have proven yourself unable or unwilling to make the clear distinctions that are READILY APPARENT. Only you are dumb enough to think there is no difference or you are one-in-the-same as those mentionables. Dude... If your stuff was legit you wouldn't have to invoke them. People would make those connections and say your philosophy is like theirs. Funny how friend nor foe in neither discussion or debate has equated your RHETORIC with that RADICAL HARD LEFT tradition.

On Culture... You are no Maulana Karenga. He would be a "Garveyite" as well as Malcolm. You would not and are not. Simply spouting the RHETORIC doesn't make you one. You can sing all the Cadences and Military Songs you want... but that doesn't make you a soldier.

And getting back to Malcolm, let's look at what he said again:
    "Our short-range program must [1] involve that which is necessary to enable us to live a better life while we are still here. [2] We must be in complete control of the politics of the so-called Negro community; [2.a.]we must gain complete control over the politicians in the so-called Negro community, [2.b.]so that ***no outsider*** will have any voice in the so-called Negro community."
Long & Short, in order for those two objectives to be accomplished, SYSTEMATIC CHANGE is required. Both within the Black Community and OUTSIDE the Black Community. Matter of fact, #2 and particularly the (b) section calls for a change in the STRUCTURAL ORDER. How can you eliminate THE OUTSIDERS influence and Control Over Black Politicians when American Politics is so structured, systematically, to where Black Politicians, by definition, can only be but so free?

Which Political Party are they directing? By design, neither. So there is one prime and major example of some serious SYSTEMATIC and STRUCTURAL RACISM that has yet to be "addressed". That, for one, has serious CONSEQUENCES. Matter of fact, it impacts your very diatribes about Civil Rights Leadership. Rather than approach this scientifically with an emphasis on establishing "controls" whereby you eliminate OUTSIDE FACTORS in your deductions concerning Black Leadership... You are the Mad (and Dumb) Scientist raving about how one actor ruined your experiment when, all the while, there is more than one. Malcolm acknowledge that and, by any objective reading of what he said, ELIMINATING THAT OUTSIDE FACTOR was of primary importance.

You will note that while Malcolm was outspoken about his disagreements with the Civil Rights Leadership he didn't stand with "THE WHITE MAN" over his brothers. And that, under no pretenses. You then have just witnessed the great distinction and difference between you and those mentionables.

Ummm.... WHITE CONSERVATIVES say, "Ya'll need to look INTERNALLY (instead of trying to change anything else). We've done enough for ya'll already."

Funny how familiar that sounds...
I've been following this discussion, and I agree with most of you all. This issue has absolutely nothing to do with a Hurricane or "rising to a standard of living." This is a human rights issue, an issue that stretches far beyond what happened after Hurricane Katrina. Black people, from all walks of life, representing all income levels, have been mistreated, hurricane or no hurricane. And what kind of "civilization" discriminately offers aid to its people based their economic status anyway? I mean, if you're going to present yourselves as being an "advanced civilization," then be one. Don't make yourself look like an ass. Finally, referring back to this ridiculous poverty argument, poverty is not unique to Blacks and Latinos in America. Though whites make up a very small percentage of the world's population, they hoard majority of the world's wealth. And everyone knows that this wealth was not secured by diligently following the basic principles of "working hard" and "doing your best."
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quote:
And what kind of "civilization" discriminately offers aid to its people based their economic status anyway?



Please prove this.


You make it appear that there was an ACTIVE attempt to suppress people's "evacuation effort" based on their income.

I saw that the poor had "SPECIAL NEEDS" that required a different mode of transportation to be evacuated. This was not "discrimination" in the DEDUCITIVE manner that you suggest ("No nigras on the bus as we evacuate the White folks" ) - Buses ready to transport those without vehicles, a call for RIDE SHARING among those with cars - these policies could have been introduced to provide relief.


Hell, even if they had a warehouse with inflatable rafts in the 9th Ward for people to use in an emergency THIS WOULD HAVE SAVED MANY LIVES.


Let me ask you if two people living side by side in the 9th ward and one of them had a car. The car owner departed with his front seat filled but had room for two of his neighbors - do YOU assign any obligation to the car owner to assist his neighbor who didn't have a car? (I thought the government was "for the people by the people". What magical powers does a government bus have that a private car does not?)

Again - please PROVE your assertion above.
quote:
And what kind of "civilization" discriminately offers aid to its people based their economic status anyway?Please prove this.


Since the tragedy occurred, many people have been questioning whether if this were an affluent, predominately white community would the residents received aid much sooner than they had, and I believe they have good reason to raise such questions considering what took place. Like many other sensitive issues involving racial discrimination, proving whether or not the delayed actions of the part of government was racially-motivated would indeed be difficult.

quote:
As a people we are capable of TRANSFORMING ourselves by adopting a CULTURE that produces such an outcome and instead must rely on external resources to care for us as a people thus limiting our ability and willingness to depart for the unfavorable position that such dependency leaves us.


I'm not against your interest in seeing Black people become self-sufficient, and I would be willing to wager that many other Blacks reading your comments aren't either. The problem is that the attitude (and mentality) driving your interest is short-sighted. Unlike West and others, I'm not interested in tying politics, money, standard of living, and any other irrelevant factors to what happenend to these folks, because it really had nothing to do with these factors. These people were treated in this way because they were Black, period. It had nothing to do with income, not having enough education, not having a fancy car, or any other bogus reasoning. Whether a Black person has experienced the tragedy of a hurricane, or is trying to gain entrance into a high-end store in Paris (Hello! Oprah Winfrey), we face this type of treatment daily and in many different milieus.

And running off somewhere away from the problem by instituting a "quasi-socialist" movement is NOT going to eradicate this problem. Black people continue to face this problem NOT because of what we are doing or not doing, but because WHITES have yet to seriously take a look at their problems with difference. Stop blaming us for their problem. Even if we were to follow your path of quasi-socialism to the extent that you wish for it to go, and as a result, we become wealthy, self-sufficient, educated, etc., WE STILL HAVE TO ENCOUNTER WHITES and their issues with people of color. Therefore, what in your proposal offers a solution on how to counteract this existing problem? I'll go to your most recent thread for the answer.
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quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

What we see now is ENFORCED UNITY. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that on this very board as is the case in general among Black folks EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THE LINE TO TOW:

As an example -
"Protect any Black man that is WITHIN THE CLIQUE [Mayor Nagin] and Blame everything on the known antagonist [BUSH, etc]". (Please note - I DID NOT SAY THAT BUSH WAS FAULTLESS IN THIS MATTER).


This is the most ridiculous thing I have read here in a long time. Even from you.

1) Please define "enforced unity". Please articulate who decides what we are to unite behind and how this unity is enforced. BTW - since Bush is paying off many black ministers with faith based initiaitive money - how is it that they are somehow falling outside the power of this enforcement? Are they receiving Secret Service or some other federal protection? lol

2) Please define how "on this very board" that enforcement is executed, who is setting the standard, and how those outside the norm are punished or rebuked. Are you so egocentric and eccentric that just because people call you on your BS that you think there is some concerted "enforcement" against you? Since I founded and moderate this community am I somehow the enforcer here? I'm the bad guy or have I hired, say, Nmaginate to be my 'strong arm'? laugh

3) In this very thread EbonyRose articulated her belief that most black leaders are not worth much. Should she watch her back now for fear of some kind of retribution? nono

4) Why is it so hard for you to conceive of the notion that Bush gets the criticism he does because he deserves it? Why can't you fathom a group of people who have been maligned and abused by a president articulating negative feelings toward him? Isn't that fairly basic human nature?

CF - you are so full of these conspiracy-laden notions about the black community that it is truly pathological. You need to open your eyes and see the world for what it really is. Have you ever wondered why you are always the 'odd man out'? Look in the mirror and think about the things that you say/write.

Please.

BTW - it's perfectly alright to hold political beliefs that are unique and different. Just lose the conspiracy bullshit and come correct with logic and common sense.

Also - you continue to criticize any progressive or liberal ideology or leader. I'll broaden my earlier question that you refuse to answer. Name anyone other than a progressive or liberal or Democrat who has consistently been good for the black community.

Just one.
quote:
The problem is that the attitude (and mentality) driving your interest is short-sighted.


Rowe:

You say that I AM "SHORT SIGHTED"??????

I would like for you to one day tell Kevin and others that THEY ARE SHORT SIGHTED if and when they believe that AFFIRMATIVE ACTION is going to one day LIFT BLACK PEOPLE TO A POINT OF EQUALITY when this program is alive ONLY BY THE PERMISSION OF WHITE FOLKS.

You appear to have an affinity for Black folks with a RADICAL and "In the face of the White man approach". It is that initial "Yeah you tell him" rush that shows as resolve that appeals to you.

The fact that after this event passes by nothing has changed escapes you in your accessment of it's ABSOLUTE EFFECTIVENESS at making change.

I assure you that I am not SHORT SIGHTED.
I have already logically played out the strategy that I hear from others and that which I believe in and I conclude that it is THEY WHO ARE "SHORT SIGHTED" as their strategy will always count on CONCESSIONS based on altruism rather than COMPREMISES MADE BY TWO EQUAL AND OPPOSITE ADVERSARIES WHO BOTH REALIZE THAT THEIR MUTALLY ASSURED EXISTENCE IN THE FUTURE DEPENDS ON A NEGOTIATED RESULT AND BOTH OF THEM YIELDING FROM THEIR FUNDEMENTALIST POSITIONS

We never achieve this position with the polices that I see frequented on this board, despite the rouse of "Black Nationalism" masking the fear and lack of confidence in BLACK PEOPLE's ability to order ourselves accordingly that is evident in their souls.
quote:
I would like for you to one day tell Kevin and others that THEY ARE SHORT SIGHTED if and when they believe that AFFIRMATIVE ACTION is going to one day LIFT BLACK PEOPLE TO A POINT OF EQUALITY when this program is alive ONLY BY THE PERMISSION OF WHITE FOLKS.



The key words are IF and WHEN...which covers you in terms of me never having expressed my view about AA in that manner.....

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