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quote:
Originally posted by Melesi:
We ask for money. We ask to be hired because we're black.


Please. Is this john doe in disguise? Presuming you're black, your self-hatred and racist generalizations are pathological and offensive. Suggesting that black America, in total, "ask(s) to be hired because we're black" is one of the most absurd things I've read in a long time. It says volumes about what you think about yourself.

quote:
But we have to want to be right more than we want to be angry. Can we do that?


Why do you present the two as mutually exclusive? Why can't black people embrace the emotion of anger at dealing with the shit that America deals us day in and day out? I love this country. I would be no other place on Earth. At the same time, I acknowledge the morally and ethically bankrupt ways that it has dealt with us. Because I love this nation, I want to do something about that and so I don't just sit back and keep taking it.

What's wrong with being angry? Again, your comment shows the discomfort with your own view of youself and your people. Should we just bow and say 'yassa massa'? Would that make you feel more "comfortable"? roll eyes
Good Morning Mr. Melesi and Mr. Bankins,

....by the way, Mr. Melesi, by all means correct me if I've used the wrong label as to gender.

"Presuming you're black, your self-hatred and racist generalizations are pathological and offensive. Suggesting that black America, in total, "ask(s) to be hired because we're black" is one of the most absurd things I've read in a long time. It says volumes about what you think about yourself." by Icon

"Bankins, you are nothing but a "lapdog"." by Icon

When an individual, such as the Icon(s), or a group of individuals can't honestly defend their position, then they resort to personal attack, name calling, etc., because indeed your list has a great deal of merit. Anyone who defends a misfit, or misfits, must themselves be a misfit or true "lap dog".

"Perhaps one of the difficulties with the civil rights movement (if it's really a "movement" any more) is that it is so different from what it used to be.

It used to be marches against segregation.

It used to be nonviolent protest against voter fraud.

IT used to be bravery and courage against dogs and police and firehoses.

It used to be protests to end lynching.

It used to ask for the right to live wherever we thought it best to live for us and our children.

It used to require the government to live up to its claim of "justice for all" even for us.

It used to demand equal pay for equal work.

It used to demand equal respect for equal people.

Hasn't it changed, though, since then? What has Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton done for us? Jesse used to have a good organization--Operation PUSH began as a good group with good aims, but it has deteriorated badly since then. And Jesse has gone from "Keep hope alive!" to "Yes, sir, that's my baby."

Al Sharpton spent more time in his new book (ostensibly for his campaign for president) telling us more about how powerful he was in the 2000 mayor's race in NY, and about how he ruined the Democrats' chances for the office, than he did about his military policy. He wrote about his time in Cuba as if he were a wide-eyed hick from the hills ("I even got to ride in the cockpit!" he wrote), and said it reminded him (pleasantly)of the 1950s Deep South. I'm sorry, but I remember my father and grandfather telling me about eth 1950s deep South, and it wasn't anything to remember with any gladness at all. The family was strong, but the South was a hellish place to live then.

Doesn't he know what he's talking about?

And who else is around to be a civil-rights leader?

Is it any wonder that civil-rights does not have the tone and the goals that it used to have? We no longer ask to be judged by the "content of our character." We ask for money. We ask to be hired because we're black." by Melisi

It is in no way disrespectful, self hatred, racist, or anti-Black to use constructive criticism as a mechanism to shed light on an individual, group of individuals, organization, or group of organizations, whom instead of praise deserve condemnation for their unethical behavior. To the contrary, it is very respectful to stand tall in the name of righteousness, honor, truth, ethics, humanity, or otherwise to speak up loudly, and with authority about these very serious realities that indeed negatively impact the truly law abiding of Black America.

Constructive criticism should be a hint for reform in the interest of solutions to improve the quality of life in communities across Black America. I see no wrong in ridding our community of, or exposing individuals, groups of individuals, and/or organizations, which are deceitful, disgraceful, un-American, un-trustworthy, un-ethical, criminal, destructive, treasonous, etc., etc.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on October 26, 2002 at 07:02 AM.]
Hold on, bro,' you have more steam than track here.

I post once on this issue and already you're attacking my character. My posts are in the single digits yet. You don't know enough about me to so disparage me as you did.

There is a big difference between noticing a difference and lamenting it and hating anything or anyone.

If you take such offense at what I said, my belief is that you are approaching the issue emotionally and therefore have trouble being objective, reasoning, fair and true about it.

Slow down and take a breath.

Would I really praise our leaders of yesterday if I hated myself and others of my race?

Now, think--what is the difference between the civil-rights leaders of the Sixties and those of today? What did we at one time ask for and what are our "leaders" asking for today? there is such a vast gulf between the two that it's hard for me to believe that they are talking about the same thing.

And I think that this has damaged our thinking about us and our lives. We insist on a kind of group-think that demands that everybody of the same color have the same opinions and beliefs or we will...deny their color. This makes no sense to me. We can see that they are the same color as we are, yet we insist that they are not ("really," whatever that means) only because their politics or their means (not even their goals) are different.

Wouldn't it be better for us if we really meant what we say about unity? If we accept one another despite each other's politics, wouldn't that strengthen our unity?

Unless we don't mean what we say about it. Unless we really mean that in order for me to acccept you you have to think like me and support what I support and vote as I do...

I am not saying that every single African American does this. I can't without logical contradiction because I am saying something different, so don't twist my words as you did in your first reply to me.

But it sounds to me that the leaders that most of us accept DO say this.

And I think that it's a betrayal of the aims, methods, and life of Martin Luther King. He wasn't alsays right--he was human--but he was so right that he deserves to be a role model.

I don't see many of our leaders doing that. Maybe it's time to replace some leaders.
Hello Mr. Melesi

"And I think that it's a betrayal of the aims, methods, and life of Martin Luther King. He wasn't alsays right--he was human--but he was so right that he deserves to be a role model.

I don't see many of our leaders doing that. Maybe it's time to replace some leaders." by Mr. Melesi

Well said. It is about time a strong message is delivered to our leadership, namely the message that accountability is in order. Any present day elected leader, civil rights organization, preacher, lawyer, etc., who has the belief that it will be business as usual will find themselves removed, replaced, recalled, criminally indicted for criminal wrongdoing, etc.

Should the infusion of "free enterprise" based on the quality and competency of production enter the equation, which usually results from fair competition, just as in the business world, improved services to the public will be forthcoming.

You, bet, these individuals or organizations will either produce and perform in an ethical manner, or they will be forced out of business or be removed from political office. In the interest of survival truly law abiding U.S. citizens of Black American heritage must hold our elected leadership and/or otherwise accountable.

In the event our community accepts the "status quo", the competing interests of an ever expanding immigrant class soon to be U.S. citizens, will take charge where our elected leadership, and/or otherwise have failed. Believe it or not, these individuals do not need the input of Black America to make a go of it.

Should you doubt this to be true, U.S. citizens of Black American heritage are already being displaced in communities on the West Coast, such as Compton, West Adams, Watts, Pacoima, Venice, South Central Los Angeles, Inglewood, other areas or cities in California, or in other parts of the U.S., such as Miami, Florida.

The Hispanics, Koreans, Arabs, Armenians, Cubans, Philippinos, El Salvadorians, Haitians, Chinese, Japanese, Somalians, Ethiopians, etc., will elect leaders who look and think like they do, which is not U.S. citizen of Black American heritage inclusive.

Many Haitians, Brazilians, Panamanians, Pakistanians, Ethiopians, Nigerians, Jamaicans, Somalians, etc., who are also Black like us, have their own agenda, which does not include U.S. citizens of Black American heritage. Many of these individuals enter the U.S., with the mindset that they are better than U.S. citizens of Black American heritage, even as illegal or undocumented immigrants.

Should any of these individuals become U.S. citizens, shame on U.S. citizens of Black American heritage born on U.S. soil. Although Black like us, their allegiance is to their own culture, and not to U.S. citizens of Black American heritage born on U.S. soil. Many of these individuals prefer to live and associate with their own people, to form their own immediate ethnic communities, over any association with U.S. citizens of Black American heritage born on U.S. soil.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on October 26, 2002 at 07:58 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by Lofton:

Many Haitians, Brazilians, Panamanians, Pakistanians, Ethiopians, Nigerians, Jamaicans, Somalians, etc., who are also Black like us, have their own agenda, which does not include U.S. citizens of Black American heritage. Many of these individuals enter the U.S., with the mindset that they are better than U.S. citizens of Black American heritage, even as illegal or undocumented immigrants.

Should any of these individuals become U.S. citizens, shame on U.S. citizens of Black American heritage born on U.S. soil. Although Black like us, their allegiance is to their own culture, and not to U.S. citizens of Black American heritage born on U.S. soil. Many of these individuals prefer to live and associate with their own people, to form their own immediate ethnic communities, over any association with U.S. citizens of Black American heritage born on U.S. soil.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on October 26, 2002 at 07:58 PM.]



I find this portion of M. Lofton's comment to be true. Other Black/Black-looking people who come here do not feel there is much in common with us. I had a caribbean friend whose mother warned him to "stay away from those American blacks - they're dangerous" before coming to the states. My Nigerian college classmates were similarly warned to stay away from AA women b/c "they are crazy" *shrug* Perhaps they watch too much television/news which villifies black americans? Perhaps they are largely unaware that the struggles and deaths of many AA's have enabled them to come to this country and not be treated like vermin? (this might make for an interesting topic, M. Lofton)


Black americans can only progress with a unified political presence. But class distinctions seem to pull black people in opposing directions. Does the AA who feels that affirmative action is no longer necessary, that the civil rights movement was unimportant, and that activists must be angels have anything in common with the "masses" of AA's in this country?

"I coulda freed thousands more if only they had known they were slaves..."

Harriet Tubman
Good Morning negrospiritual,

"In the event our community accepts the "status quo", the competing interests of an ever expanding immigrant class soon to be U.S. citizens, will take charge where our elected leadership, and/or otherwise have failed. Believe it or not, these individuals do not need the input of Black America to make a go of it.

Should you doubt this to be true, U.S. citizens of Black American heritage are already being displaced in communities on the West Coast, such as Compton, West Adams, Watts, Pacoima, Venice, South Central Los Angeles, Inglewood, other areas or cities in California, or in other parts of the U.S., such as Miami, Florida.

The Hispanics, Koreans, Arabs, Armenians, Cubans, Philippinos, El Salvadorians, Haitians, Chinese, Japanese, Somalians, Ethiopians, etc., will elect leaders who look and think like they do, which is not U.S. citizen of Black American heritage inclusive." by Michael Lofton

.....and you don't see any truth in the above!!?? I've lived in Los Angeles County since the first Watts Riot of 1965. At age eleven, I lived in the heart of Watts during the Riot of 1965, when South Central, Watts, Compton, etc., was a predominately Black community. I've seen the huge demographic shift before my own eyes.

Many Black people, in spite of possessing or not a Bachelor of Science, Master of Science, Doctorate degree, or otherwise, end up in prison, become strung out on illicit substances, remain in the unemployment line, lose real or personal property, end up having their families broken up, etc., many times solely because of the economic reasons of not having gainful employment opportunities, and/or access to competent political representation.

Many Hispanics or Koreans now own or negotiate to purchase real or personal property formerly owned by U.S. citizens of Black American heritage. Many Hispanics or Koreans own businesses in communities formerly predominated by Black people, and/or hold very good jobs, many times barely speaking "English" or without so much as the first Associate of Arts Degree, let alone having a "B.S., M.S., Doctorate Degree". The fact that many of these individuals pool their resources or support their own people first and foremost, make it possible for them to achieve the American dream, with or without being U.S. citizens or having the first college degree.

While U.S. citizens of Black American heritage are at risk to genocide, because of prison records, high unemployment, gang shootings, the "Mexican Mafia's Green Light Order" to Kill or maim Black men or women confined to penal institutions, Black on Black senseless criminal acts, and/or are subjected to "taxation without competent representation" by a very inept elected Black leadership, the typical large Black Church Congregations, such as West Los Angeles, First African Methodist Episcopal Church (FAME), Reverend Price's Following, etc., give out food baskets by the hundreds, every Sunday to Hispanic immigrants financed by the benevolence of Black people. In addition while huge numbers of U.S. citizens of Black American heritage remain unemployed or underemployed, the typical Black Church congregations spend millions to finance the building of massive church edifices, whose financial and/or construction contractual agreements employ virtually every other ethnic group but U.S. citizens of Black American heritage. In a nutshell this activity of ignorance or naive extreme benevolence, amounts to U.S. citizens of Black American heritage financing their own execution or extinction.

Unlike, U.S. citizens of Black American heritage who have relocated to other areas, or whose location is in an institution of imprisonment, the Hispanics still control East Los Angeles, commonly referred to as the "Barrio". Because of Black flight or an inept Black political leadership, many of these less than twenty years newly arrived immigrants control the community of South Central Los Angeles, Compton, etc., lock, stock, and barrel.

The West Adams area, an older community of Black America, composed of the "Sugar Hill" set, risk being displaced by Koreans, Hispanics, and Caucasian Americans who have found it less painful in terms of commuting time, and affordable price to buy property in the "Hood". These new owners make huge improvements on the property, which increase neighborhood property values.

The increase in assessed property value, in turn, make it exceedingly difficult for those on fixed incomes, such as Senior Citizen U.S. citizens of Black American heritage, to pay their property taxes. As a result, many "Senior Citizens" of Black America face loss of their property or many Senior citizens of Black America face being put out on the street which will increase the Black homeless population. The inability to pay higher property taxes, brought on by huge community redevelopment projects, usually controlled by outsiders, is designed to benefit every other community but U.S. citizens of Black American heritage. The younger generations of Black America, who have access to capital, prefer to move to outlying communities, such as the "Beach community", the Valley, the Inland Empire, which has seriously compromised the economic, political, and social influence of the community of Black America.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on October 27, 2002 at 08:47 AM.]
everyone is quick to dismiss the tradtional civil rights organizations and leaders...which is sad due to the fact that many of your own social gains were the direct results of their efforts. I guess it has become fashionable to decry such things in this day and age...personally I would not decry anyone who has made any effort to advance black folks,whether I agree with the methods or not....until I devote time and efforts and finances to the extent that i accomplish some of the things they have.....until then, i'll shut the hell up and work at it.........it is so easy to complain, biitch and moan...but much harder to acheive
Mr. Kevin41,

"everyone is quick to dismiss the traditional civil rights organizations and leaders...which is sad due to the fact that many of your own social gains were the direct results of their efforts. I guess it has become fashionable to decry such things in this day and age...personally I would not decry anyone who has made any effort to advance black folks,whether I agree with the methods or not....until I devote time and efforts and finances to the extent that i accomplish some of the things they have.....until then, i'll shut the hell up and work at it.........it is so easy to complain, biitch and moan...but much harder to acheive" by Mr. Kevin41

This is your assessment and not mine. Besides, very little of the above has any validity. First of all the traditional Civil Rights Leaders, so called Civil Rights organizations, and/or many Black elected officials are, and have been a disgrace. Next, but not the least, the NAACP, Reverend Jesse Jackson, Dr. Martin Luther King, Push, the so-called elected Black leadership have yet to amount to anything of substance in my life.

The truth is being exposed daily as to these pseudo civil rights organizations, and/or poverty pimping individuals. Reverend no good snake oil salesman Jesse Jackson, and Reverend Al Sharpton are being sued for 61 million dollars for making false statements that may have negatively impacted the sales of the movie "Barber Shop".

The writers, actors, actresses, producers, etc., of "Barber Shop" are predominately Black, to which Reverend Jesse Jackson nor Reverend Al Sharpton have any legal authority to interfere with the money making possibilities of other Black people making an honest living.

It has yet to be proven that Reverend Jesse Jackson, Reverend Al Sharpton, or the leadership of the NAACP are making an honest living, by putting in an honest days work for the assets derived by much, much, much less than honorable means. On the other hand there is a "Mountain of Evidence" to prove that many of these individuals, pertaining to these no good poverty pimping organizations or individuals, such as Reverend Jesse Jackson, Reverend Al Sharpton, the NAACP, PUSH, etc., etc., have in fact acquired their assets through fraudulent acts, sleaze, or greed.

Good for you, "Cedric the Entertainer", "Ice Cube", and all the other Black people associated with the movie "Barber Shop". Through civil lawsuit for damages, perhaps Reverend Jesse Jackson and Reverend Al Sharpton can be put out of business once and for all. The money derived through sleaze or greed, by both of these "poverty pimps" will now be returned to the community of Black America, in one form or another.

On a person note, my immediate family, relatives, close friends, teachers, co-workers, my own effort, sacrifice or ingenuity to make things possible are responsible for my economic, political, social, and/or otherwise gain in life, and not any pseudo Civil Rights movement in the NAACP, PUSH, Reverend Al Sharpton, Reverend Jesse Jackson, etc., etc.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on October 29, 2002 at 06:32 PM.]
"I'm so glad that our ancestors

didn't have the "I got it pretty good so slavery ain't so bad" syndrome. Otherwise those few slaves who were treated pretty well wouldn't have cared if the masses ever were freed." by negrospiritual


....As reality would have it Reverend Jesse Jackson and family are treating each other pretty well to the tune of "Mega Buck" theft at the expense of the benevolence of Black people and/or others. Caring about the masses of Black America is as far removed from any thought or action of a Reverend Jesse Jackson, and other no-good-jack-leg poverty pimping preachers, as to believe that it is normal to find a flock of birds flying backwards.

Live in the years 1619 through 1867, if you wish, but the issue of slavery is a dead issue. The only enslavement of U.S. citizens of Black American heritage in the year 2002, are the roadblocks that Black people intentionally create to block the advancement of each other, or any fallacy of slavery today that is created within their own minds. The possibility of receiving so much as one dime in reparations, for the vestibule of slavery over a century long gone, is also a "Mission Impossible".

Mr. Bankins said it best in a previous posting, which will show who truly benefits from the poverty pimping activity of this pseudo Civil Rights Movement, to which the beneficiaries are, namely Reverend Jesse Jackson and Sons.

..... "a Jesse Jackson can shake down a beer company for supposed discrimination practices and end up with beer distributorships for his sons!!" by Mr. Bankins, and similar truths have been published or stated by many others.

Listening or following in the footsteps of Reverend Jesse Jackson, Reverend Al Sharpton, other no good povery pimping individuals, or a pseudo civil rights organizations such as the NAACP keep Black people in poverty, and/or self inflicted bondage.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on October 30, 2002 at 06:23 PM.]

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