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The last I read on some Matrix board was that a judge approved the continuation of the case but not any settlement. So apparently sources like the FBI think there is something to it.

I find it interesting that I haven't heard of any Black leaders looking into it. Because if it is correct there is certainly a big stink to be raised and lots of publicity to be gotten. I would think Jesse Jackson would love it.

umbra
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
This is problematic in ALL types of schools - not just alternative learning environments.


Precisely!

quote:
Alternative schools are better prepared to deal with these types of problems than large schools that sheppard children through a maze of emotionally disconnected learning environments.


Most public schools are equipped with special educators, special education paraprofessionals, speech therapists, bilingual educators, and teacher's assistants who are prepared to accommodate the needs of special education students and students who speak English as a second language (ESOL students). It's not as if public schools are completely blind to the diverse needs of its students. However, I do acknowledge the point that you are making. It is true that alternative schools are better able to provide students with more individualized instruction, but that's due in large part to the significantly smaller class sizes.

quote:
For example, John lives in a shelter with his mother and sister, and he falls asleep in class. In a traditional school, John (especially if he is Black and / or poor) is at high risk of being rushed into a catagory where he is marked as learning impaired or disabled. In an alternative setting, John is more likely exposed to educational professionals that will use a holistic approach aimed at solving the problem.


And since "John" represents a disproportionate number of Black boys who are being misdiagnosed and academically misunderstood, rather than relocating masses of students to alternative schools, wouldn't it make better sense to train novice and experienced teachers to use more culturally-sensitive methods of instruction, to raise their expectations of these students, and to make stronger efforts to build relationships with their students? By taking John out of the traditional academic environment, we're not really addressing the problem. We are whisking children away from the problem, which only serves as a temporary solution because though you may take one John out of this academically-threatening environment, you leave hundreds of other Johns behind to deal with the same problem(s) experienced by the relocated student.
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quote:
And since "John" represents a disproportionate number of Black boys who are being misdiagnosed and academically misunderstood, rather than relocating masses of students to alternative schools, wouldn't it make better sense to train novice and experienced teachers to use more culturally-sensitive methods of instruction, to raise their expectations of these students, and to make stronger efforts to build relationships with their students? By taking John out of the traditional academic environment, we're not really addressing the problem. We are whisking children away from the problem, which only serves as a temporary solution because though you may take one John out of this academically-threatening environment, you leave hundreds of other Johns behind to deal with the same problem(s) experienced by the relocated student.

I am for whisking as many Black children away from traditional (eurocentric) schools as we can - regardless of age, gender, and ability.

Soon to come back to discuss why,
Hey - I have a question Shango67. To be clear, this is not meant to nitpick or snipe at you or anything else that you may have felt in the past from me. It's just an honest question about your views. Cool? bsm

I believe that you've mentioned that you would prefer for a college bound African American to go to an HBCU - like Howard or Morehouse etc. You've also been quite articulate about your opposition to affirmative action - to some degree (I believe) because it's a federal program - it's the government interceding on black folks' behalf. Others here have made the argument that any time the government gives something, it can obviously take it away - and that any reliance on our part on a program like this is nonsensical.

Well, here's the question. Since Howard, for example, is a federally chartered institution and is funded - largely - by government grants etc., then isn't - at the end of the day - Howard really no different than AA itself? Sure the environment may be different than other white schools, but if it's not appropriate for the government to act in our behalf for AA, then isn't it pretty much the same thing for them to act in our behalf to fund Howard? Furthermore, would you consider Howard a "black institution", or is it a "white institution for black folks"?
Why do people think that where a kid sits has anything to do with what they learn....if you teach a kid learning principles correctly, they could go to school with green children and be okay. The lack of resources is the only issue that really makes a difference. A good teacher and a headstart during the developmental years (1-7) is all a kid needs to succeed academically. A kid needs to be shown how to perform regardless of where they are located and not believe that they can only learn under favorable conditions.....hell the world is not about favorable conditions so why educate a kid in a way that is unrealistic compared to what they will have to compete in. If a kid is taught HOW to learn, they can go to a university, JC or any other school whether it is black, white, yellow or green and flourish.....that is a known fact and also race is not a factor in learning.....talk like that almost sounds as weird as that bigger brain shit the inbreds are always talking about.

**AA has had measurable results and needs to be enforced and implemented more vigorously across a wider cross-section of black people...in addition, many need to be educated on resources available and at the same time make education a higher priority beyond just getting by........if a kid is allowed to have selective motivation then they will watch TV and listen to music and all that other bullshit that contributes nothing to life long-term...there needs to be a commmittment in the home, from the schools and the government itself to foster a change in the value placed on the education of black kids....all that schit about turning away and just qutting the battles others fought on our behalf is just emotionally charged bullshit....this country belongs to blacks as much if not more than anyone....and we are supposed to utilize available resources until they dry up....just like anyone else does in this screwed up backwoods ass country.......I wish more of us would view ourselves as deserving equals instead of always standing outside of the gate and throw rocks....at the system or ourselves....one has to be a part of something to change it...........
Interesting...and it shows how impoverished people have to quit associating their conditions with hopelessness.....I know it is easier said than done....but it is necessary. CalStart is a program for low-income kids to attend CalState schools for free...they had money left over due to a lack of applications...go figure......

Stanford: No tuition for low-income students

STANFORD, California (AP) -- Hoping to encourage students scared by rising higher education costs, Stanford University is eliminating tuition for undergraduates from some of the lowest-income families.

Under a new program announced Wednesday, students from families with annual incomes of less than $45,000 will not pay tuition. Those with incomes up to $60,000 will pay about $3,800, the school estimates.

Stanford's undergraduate tuition for the next school year will be nearly $33,000. Add in other expenses, such as books and housing, and the cost averages about $47,000.

"Students from low-income backgrounds are underrepresented at our nation's most selective institutions," said Richard Shaw, Stanford's dean of undergraduate admission and financial aid.

"Many families ... may be discouraged by the stated tuition, so we want to be more forceful with this new program in encouraging talented low-income students to consider Stanford," he said.

College costs have been rising fast across the U.S. According to the latest survey from the College Board, a nonprofit association based in Washington, D.C., tuition and fees at four-year private institutions rose nearly 6 percent to $21,235 for the 2005-06 academic year, from $20,045 in 2004-05.

Costs at four-year public institutions went up more than 7 percent to $5,491 from $5,126.

Stanford already provides strong financial aid. This year, students from families earning less than $45,000 paid an average $2,650, according to the university. The new program, starting for an estimated 1,100 current and new students this fall, is expected to cost the university $3 million in the first year.

Harvard and Princeton universities are among other elite American universities with similar programs.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
I believe that you've mentioned that you would prefer for a college bound African American to go to an HBCU - like Howard or Morehouse etc. You've also been quite articulate about your opposition to affirmative action - to some degree (I believe) because it's a federal program - it's the government interceding on black folks' behalf. Others here have made the argument that any time the government gives something, it can obviously take it away - and that any reliance on our part on a program like this is nonsensical.

Well, here's the question. Since Howard, for example, is a federally chartered institution and is funded - largely - by government grants etc., then isn't - at the end of the day - Howard really no different than AA itself? Sure the environment may be different than other white schools, but if it's not appropriate for the government to act in our behalf for AA, then isn't it pretty much the same thing for them to act in our behalf to fund Howard? Furthermore, would you consider Howard a "black institution", or is it a "white institution for black folks"?

MBM

When I talked about the HBCU's, I was speaking in the context of building upon the institutions that may be able to support Black folks who decided to pursue higher education. I was speaking in the context that Black folks use HBCU's and reject the notion that our best, brightest, and gifted scholars must have their scholarship validated by Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, etc... There is no reason why a cure for cancer can't come from a Black student enrolled at Howard Medical. For some reason, our people celebrate Black folks who break color lines and white established racial barriers. And I am saying, we need to move toward a society where white folks are not in the posistion to evaluate our skill sets, qualifications, academic performance, mental health, family and social structures, and what not. We spend too much of our time celebrating the Jackie Robinsons of the world - and not enough time celebrating those who reject integration as a liberating ideology.

Okay... with that said, I see no problem with the federal government funding programs that lead to African empowerment and Black self-determination. The funding Howard gets from the federal government, which is probably miniscule as it relates to the endowments given to the Ivy Leagues, is a good example of the type of money we should accept for the purpose of the collective. AA does not come anywhere near close to how HBCU's use federal funding.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
The important factor you left out of all this is WHAT IS BEING TAUGHT TO OUR CHILDREN?MISEDUCATION IS WORSE THAN NO EDUCATION


Children are to be taught math and sciences at school and the regular curriculum afforded to kida nationally and on par with other kids internationally. They should be normally socilized at home and taught comprehension and retention techniques before they even enter school. They should also be taught how to match careers with specific educational paths and they should also be taught to view trends so they can make informed educational choices after k-12. I do not understand the concept of miseducation so you'll have to spell that one out....a parent is supposed to help avoid that scenario by reviewing and authorizing what their kids take I would presume.
you dont understand what Miseducation is? what? but you come up with all this elaborate scheme of what you think education is.Finally, let's turn to Dr. Carter G. Woodson's great book, "The Miseducation of the Negro," to get some further insights into this problem.

Woodson observes, "the so-called modern education, with all its defects, however, does others so much more good than it does the Negro, because it has been worked out in conformity to the needs of those who have enslaved and oppressed weaker people."

For example, Woodson says, "the philosophy and ethics resulting from our education system have justified slavery, peonage, segregation and lynching. The oppressor has the right to exploit, to handicap, and to kill the oppressed."

Woodson explains that, "No systematic effort toward change has been possible for, taught the same economics, history, philosophy, literature and religion which have established the present code of morals, the Negro's mind has been brought under the control of his oppressor."

It is inspiring to see so many of our people waking up all over America and seeking the truth concerning the real contributions of African people to the world.

Through study groups, conferences. Black talk radio, and information network exchanges, African people in America are coming into a new African consciousness that seeks to reclaim the African mind and spirit.

The attacks on our movement will not stop this. Let's continue to struggle

http://www.blackcommentator.com/103/103_guest_misedudation_rhymes.html
quote:
was speaking in the context that Black folks use HBCU's and reject the notion that our best, brightest, and gifted scholars must have their scholarship validated by Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, etc... There is no reason why a cure for cancer can't come from a Black student enrolled at Howard Medical. For some reason, our people celebrate Black folks who break color lines and white established racial barriers. And I am saying, we need to move toward a society where white folks are not in the posistion to evaluate our skill sets, qualifications, academic performance, mental health, family and social structures, and what not. We spend too much of our time celebrating the Jackie Robinsons of the world - and not enough time celebrating those who reject integration as a liberating ideology.

yeah appl
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:

We spend too much of our time celebrating the Jackie Robinsons of the world - and not enough time celebrating those who reject integration as a liberating ideology.


Well - you know you can't make that last statement and not expect for a question about it! Can you explain your thoughts about "rejecting integration"? We live in a white country. On a daily basis, we have no choice but to interact with white America. While "rejecting integration" can be emotionally liberating, what do you see as the practical implications, limits, and ramifications of that? I've written about using the "white flight" phenomenon to create all black or majority black communities. I've also talked about aggregating political power by choosing a state with a large African American base - like Georgia or Louisiana - and developing a strategic effort to create a "black state" there - to generate a national campaign to draw African Americans from all over the country to live there with the express purpose of gaining greater control over our lives etc. The state would end up with a black governor, black senators and congress people all the way down to school board etc. We would be making decisions with our best interests at heart. Do those kinds of ideas fit within your conception of "rejecting integration"?

Can we "reject integration" intellectually/mentally/emotionally/spiritually while still interacting with the white world around us on an 'as needed' basis?

As always, interested in your thoughts.
quote:
Well - you know you can't make that last statement and not expect for a question about it! Can you explain your thoughts about "rejecting integration"? We live in a white country. On a daily basis, we have no choice but to interact with white America. While "rejecting integration" can be emotionally liberating, what do you see as the practical implications, limits, and ramifications of that? I've written about using the "white flight" phenomenon to create all black or majority black communities. I've also talked about aggregating political power by choosing a state with a large African American base - like Georgia or Louisiana - and developing a strategic effort to create a "black state" there - to generate a national campaign to draw African Americans from all over the country to live there with the express purpose of gaining greater control over our lives etc. The state would end up with a black governor, black senators and congress people all the way down to school board etc. We would be making decisions with our best interests at heart. Do those kinds of ideas fit within your conception of "rejecting integration"?

Can we "reject integration" intellectually/mentally/emotionally/spiritually while still interacting with the white world around us on an 'as needed' basis?

I have read your thoughts about a Black state and of course, I think your outline is a great plan. However, Africans managing an entire state in this country will come with a cost. What I am saying is... Haiti, the first, only liberated and free African state / country in the western hemisphere is suffering, IMO, beause their ancestors kicked french ass all over Hispanola. Yes, I do think white folks have long term memory, especially in the case of the Haitian people. The ramifications of a free African state in this country will bring about the same type of pain Africans experience in Haiti.

Like Haiti, Cuba, the first liberated Afro Latin country in the west, also carries the burden of standing up to white hegemony. Although Castro's leadership style is not desired in a democratic and free market society, Cuba has made great strides after winning the revolution. Nevertheless, the amerikkkan government has been successful in severely damaging Cuba's ability to participate in global markets.

Your plans for statehood doesn't come with violence against white folks, but that will not prevent them from reacting violently (physical and political violence) once they see a mass migration of Black people to one location. Also, I think that any plan such as yours, would be much stronger if it included a global policy placing Black Africa at the core - espeically as it relates to the economic and social development of the Diaspora. Our people are on shakey ground because Africa is weak. I know this is a touchy subject. Many of our people don't even consider themselves African, so I know they can't accept Pan Africanism as a guiding principle.

I think there are major differences between "interacting" with white folks verses "integrating" with white folks. In the case of Jackie Robinson, his behavior led to the destruction of the fourth largest African American business during that era. And all for what? To play ball in an inferior league run by white people. It was not about the money... if you look at the statements made by Black ball players who wanted to play in the white major leagues, none of them mention money - they all talk about a desire to become validated as a baseball player. Africans need to address the psychosis that leads us to perform for white approval; and we need to move away from the notion that we have achieved less without it.

In the short term, the cost of rejecting integration appears to be suffocating; building nations is not easy. However in the long run, our progeny will celebrate us for making tough decisions that led to their eventual liberation. I fear we can't see that far ahead.
quote:
In the case of Jackie Robinson, his behavior led to the destruction of the fourth largest African American business during that era. And all for what? To play ball in an inferior league run by white people. It was not about the money... if you look at the statements made by Black ball players who wanted to play in the white major leagues, none of them mention money - they all talk about a desire to become validated as a baseball player. Africans need to address the psychosis that leads us to perform for white approval;


appl appl appl appl

Part of this is needing Whites to set the so called academic standards. The laws of physics don't give a damn about academic standards. Their concept of education is psychologically conditioning White kids to be subservient to AUTHORITY. To a significant extent being educated by their standards is becoming as dumb as they are.

Economists with PhDs from Harvard must not mention the planned obsolescence of automobiles. It must not be happening. ROFLMBAO

umbrarchist
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
you dont understand what Miseducation is? what? but you come up with all this elaborate scheme of what you think education is.Finally, let's turn to Dr. Carter G. Woodson's great book, "The Miseducation of the Negro," to get some further insights into this problem.

Woodson observes, "the so-called modern education, with all its defects, however, does others so much more good than it does the Negro, because it has been worked out in conformity to the needs of those who have enslaved and oppressed weaker people."

For example, Woodson says, "the philosophy and ethics resulting from our education system have justified slavery, peonage, segregation and lynching. The oppressor has the right to exploit, to handicap, and to kill the oppressed."

Woodson explains that, "No systematic effort toward change has been possible for, taught the same economics, history, philosophy, literature and religion which have established the present code of morals, the Negro's mind has been brought under the control of his oppressor."

It is inspiring to see so many of our people waking up all over America and seeking the truth concerning the real contributions of African people to the world.

Through study groups, conferences. Black talk radio, and information network exchanges, African people in America are coming into a new African consciousness that seeks to reclaim the African mind and spirit.

The attacks on our movement will not stop this. Let's continue to struggle

http://www.blackcommentator.com/103/103_guest_misedudation_rhymes.html



With that in mind I guess it has allot to do with the mindset of the black person involved in the "educational process"....some call it miseducation...others know it is bullschit that is outright rejected....now i concentrate of scientific issues and the social REALITIES of black folks....there is no "mis" there because it is based on reality...not rhetoric, propoganda or that other nonsense....just like I know how AA has helped blacks through RESEARCH and not OPINION...MISEDUCATED people tend to stand for things that are clearly detrimental to black people.....but have been convinced otherwise.......I clearly understand what you are talking about....but education to learn skills and education to learn about self are two different paramaters under the auspices of reality.....that is why I always try to tell the blkCONS and other naysayers to have MEASURABLE RESULTS....as the basis for your stance on an issue or topic.....as so far as miseducation...I was reading books like "before the mayflower" when I was 12 years old....and I have a copy of the Norton Anthrology....which is several thousand pages of black reality....hell I always thought our negro religion is what kept us oppressed and complacent in the midst of it.......and as a result...i grew up to reject 90% of that american nonsense we were taught...independent learning is the one solution to rectify the miseducation of the Negro bro......I feel ya....but when it comes to scientific and mathematical subjects....that schit is not up for debate...it is "pure" learning in the objective sense of the word.....believe me...as an educator myself...I know what forms of education that exists and what is real and what is bullschit...and just because a black man attains his within the system...that does not mean his mind has been colonized......at all....there are many independent and factual thinkers/learners left in the ranks.........
I take issue the manner in which african children are taught, who taught them, and science and math is subjective also,especially when all examples used in science and math come from European theory. Yeah 1 plus 1 will always equal two , but when you get into economics, anatomy things of this nature culture is very important.
I guess I am referring to science and math such as calculus and trig and electronics.....there is not too much subjective to that...if so.....that is what proofs and research for...as so far as the social normalization of black kids....that is a whole new story that has been outlined in black publications by black psychologists....and as you said...we are in a knowledge-oriented society and many black people are waking up to a whole new realm of information that is available....it really starts at home, the learning process...how to learn.....schools are for exposure to new topics and materials...but once one becomes a learned individual (child or adult), they know reality from bullschit on their respective level...like me growing up in Texas and learning Texas history....did it for the grade and didn't give a schit beyond that because it had nothing to do with me "making it"....or "learning about self".....people need to be exposed to all there is to learn.......they just need to know what is beneficial and what is considered "useless knowledge"......
miseducated and undereducated parents will pass that on to the children brother. im not in disagreement with you, but i would say that given our history and situation as a people the whole idea of education has to be changed and it has to imcompass all aspects of life in the black community, from how to parent all the way down to the cirriculm we use. I think we will have to come up with something that educates the parents as well as the children.
I agree brother...knowledge of things(science, health issues, measurable pro-black political philosophies and social reslities) and knowledge of self..will help to make an individual complete....where they can competitively thrive in any environment they are placed....and as so far as the parents...you are correct...the ignorance displayed is a part of the vestiges of "that peculiar instituion" and jim crow that have been left behind............

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