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Ugh, I have to say, as much as I love college, half of me almost hates it at the same time! bang

Everybody always assumes that colleges educate and teach students to think for themselves. People assume that college is a place where independent thoughts, original ideas and free thought are encouraged as well as free exchange. THAT'S BULLSHIT. From my experience this year at college, with International Studies, I can say that a lot of my so-called "education" is little more than indoctrination. I took World History and INST last semester, and I'm taking Human Geography, Compartive World Politics and Macroeconomics this semester. And A LOT OF IT IS BS.


In class, a lot of what we are taught is that Capitalism = "free market", individual decision making and Consumer Sovereignty. Then they teach that Socialism = collective decision making, "centralized planning" and state control of market. When I brought up the fact that many forms of Capitalism (including what we have) is acutally more like State Capitalism, and that not all forms of Socialism are statist (I myself am a Socialist and an anti-Statist), I just get uncomfortable stares, and a hestitant and tortured-logic backpeddle/subject change from the professors. We are also taught that democracy is synonymous with capitalism (that's a load of shit), and we are taught to embrace Globalism as unquestionably good. Whwn we DO learn the negative sides and the consequences of such things, they are generally glaced over. We never discuss how Globalism screws over Asian, African and Latin American countries, we don't discuss ho the so-called "free market" in Globalism is really CONTROLLED by Western nations.



And Neocons complain that colleges are "breeding grounds" for "radical liberalism". Yeah, this is "radical liberalism" only if you are a Neocon. Most of what we are taught is Neoliberal rhetoric (from my experience). I have many friends (some of them Alumni) that agree. Colleges, contrary to the myth that they educate, really serve to indoctrinate largely. They indoctrinate students to become future Neoliberal traders and corporatists. I'd say the only thing really "radicall libreral" about college education is that it tends to be socially liberal (not economically or politically liberal). That's about it.


Has anyone else had this experience with college? sck
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To misquote Morpheus:

"Welcome to the intellectual desert of the real." lol


I didn't take the soft science stuff particularly seriously. I assumed it was bullsh!t from the get go. I concentrated on math, science and engineering. I didn't get a course about electricity until 2nd semester sophomore year, Circuit Analysis I. They started talking about Kirchof's current law. When they explained what it was I thought, "I knew that when I was in grammar school." I had payed them $4400 up to that point. I was pi$$ed.

Kirchof came up with his laws in 1845. They didn't know the structure of the atom back then. This book:

Teach Yourself Electricity and Electronics by Stan Gibilisco
http://www.contractor-books.com/MG/Teach_Yself_Elec.htm

has that information. It costs $40.

I think our educational system is a scam. Children's time is wasted in grammar school and high school when their mind's are most ready to assimilate information, then people need to go to college because they still know so little. It's about making money wasting people's time. But in this society not having that piece of paper is a form of economic suicide.

So you need to find the right books to truly educate yourself and put up with the BS in school for the paper. If you don't believe the illusion you won't be disillusioned.

umbra
quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
And Neocons complain that colleges are "breeding grounds" for "radical liberalism". Yeah, this is "radical liberalism" only if you are a Neocon. Most of what we are taught is Neoliberal rhetoric (from my experience). I have many friends (some of them Alumni) that agree. Colleges, contrary to the myth that they educate, really serve to indoctrinate largely. They indoctrinate students to become future Neoliberal traders and corporatists. I'd say the only thing really "radicall libreral" about college education is that it tends to be socially liberal (not economically or politically liberal). That's about it.


Has anyone else had this experience with college? sck


EP, I'm sorry for your disillusionment. As a college teacher myself, I feel duty bound to explain a few things:

(1) College professors are not paid to be deep penetrating thinkers that question the status quo.

(2) College professors ARE paid to be (I) competent teachers in their area of expertise and (II) competent researchers in a specialization who publish academic papers that are up to the standards of most of their peers (people who tend to be a lot like them).

Having said this, some college professors are INDEED deep penetrating original thinkers. But most are merely well trained competent thinkers whose primary concern is keeping their careers on track.

Some professional academics are great intellects but not every great intellect is a professional academic.

So it is not at all surprising thay many of them do not overly much question the status quo. Especially to the extent that they personally benefit from the status quo (along lines of race, gender, and class for example). That's just the way it is.

Lastly, many schools are heavily indebted to corporate money and it is not in their best interest to question the status quo. * This is ESPECIALLY true in the Bush era when state budgets are being cut mercilesssly. * I'm not kidding about this. Some departments are now rationing paper out to faculty.

BUT DO NOT DESPAIR. It is not all a scam. Most professors really do believe what they tell you and really do believe in the value of the information they try to impart. So keep this in mind. And keep an open mind. BUT ALSO there might VERY WELL be professors who are more to your liking. Seek out the like minds among the faculty. Don't be afraid to explore and openly question. Smile
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quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
I took World History and INST last semester, and I'm taking Human Geography, Compartive World Politics and Macroeconomics this semester. And A LOT OF IT IS BS. Most of what we are taught is Neoliberal rhetoric (from my experience). I have many friends (some of them Alumni) that agree.



Brother EP, what exactly were your expectations prior to aligning yourself with this department? You even admitted to consulting with friends about the interests governing the professors teaching the courses, so why did you apply this college?

quote:
I'd say the only thing really "radicall libreral" about college education is that it tends to be socially liberal (not economically or politically liberal). That's about it. Has anyone else had this experience with college?


During my search for graduate programs in Education, I discovered that the best way to find a college home is to do a little research. I first narrowed my choices down to three colleges that I knew were capable of helping me to reach my goals. Then, I would sit in on lectures, study the research interests of professors, and I even interviewed a couple of professors prior to enrolling into the college that ultimately became my final choice. The point is, you cannot assume that simply because you're majoring in "Comparative World Politics" that everyone in the program will have the same interests in this subject that you have. Even within your chosen discipline, there are multiple perspectives on a myriad of topics. Therefore, you must select a college home, and more importantly, a department, with a team of professors who share your interests. Ideally, if you are seeking a Masters degree, and especially a doctorate, you should select at least two professors with whom you would like to work closely in preparation for your thesis and dissertation. Interview these professors and read published books and articles written by them in order to get a better understanding of their interests and scholarship. I don't need to tell you that attending college is very serious business; for most people, it is one of most expensive investments that they'll make in a lifetime. Therefore, it should not be approached haphazardly.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
EP, I'm sorry for your disillusionment. College professors ARE paid to be competent teachers in their area of expertise. Having said this, some college professors are INDEED deep penetrating original thinkers. But most are merely well trained competent thinkers whose primary concern is keeping their careers on track.


Welcome To Reality

Point well taken. When I was an undergraduate, I too entered college expecting to be surrounded by power intellectuals. After watching episodes of Bill Cosby's TV show series, It's A Different World as a kid, I imagined college consisted of people just sitting around having "deep" discussions that were always meaningful and relevant to the lives of Black people. After my first year as a freshman, however, I soon realized that these discussions were to be taken place OUTSIDE the classroom. Inside the classoom, the professor's purpose for being there was to equip students with basic skills that will hopefully make them qualified for an entry-level job. An Economics professor's job, for example, was to teach her students the concept of supply and demand. Therefore, most people, unless they are planning to be scholars, attend college with the expectation that a college degree will make them more attractive to prospective employers OR to attain higher salaries in the positions with which they already hold.
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Wow! What made you so upset Empty?? I'll say this about that. Education, any grade or level is what you make it. There are many opprotunities to learn inside and outside of the classroom. Some great examples of this are people like J.A. Rogers, Malcolm X and George Washington Carver. Don't limit yourself. There are lots of great books and people out there who can help you gain an education.
More about College Profs and the Status Quo: I didn't intend to imply that deep thinkers will necessarily always question the status quo. But at the same time, college teachers as a class tend to greatly benefit from the status quo. If you're tenured, the job security is outta this world. The benefits are fantastic. Lots of vacation time. Plenty o' perks.

So a lot of these people don't question it because it's not in their interest to do so. And oddly enough, outside of Business Schools, you're most likely to find the hardcore Libertarian-NeoCon types in Math, sciences, and Engineering. The faculty in these departments tend to be smart individualistic white guys.

While in Humanities departments and many social science departments (like Sociology, Anthropology, and Linguistics) it's almost a part of the intellectual culture to lean towards being anti-status-quo.
If we as blacks supported our Black colleges more and pushed to change the dynamics and cirriculum of these institutions so that they designed to improve the conditions of the masses of black peopl we wouldnt be having this problem. Europeans are not gonna teach you have to beat them, or to challenge the status quo, so if you go to school expecting thats are really crazy. Basically they designed colleges to support the system not challenge it Imagine if black colleges taught about true african american history, imagine if we as a people financed programs and research that studies topics important to us , how strong could the impact be. What if our best and brightest taught at these schools, what if we developed strong international programs so that black schools in america can hook up with black schools all over the globe especially in africa , how big could this be,
Our system of education was created before the invention of radio, television, computers, VCRs, CDs and DVDs. When I was in 8th grade I was teaching myself trigonometry without a teacher using my older sister's high school textbook. Now with all this technology we can't come up with something more efficient than this traditional crap.

The schools adopt computers as something else to be taught to produce an income stream.

It is interesting that we don't have a national recommended reading list after all of these decades. What technology would be required for that?

umbra
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quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
To misquote Morpheus:

"Welcome to the intellectual desert of the real." lol

I think our educational system is a scam. Children's time is wasted in grammar school and high school when their mind's are most ready to assimilate information, then people need to go to college because they still know so little. It's about making money wasting people's time. But in this society not having that piece of paper is a form of economic suicide.

So you need to find the right books to truly educate yourself and put up with the BS in school for the paper. If you don't believe the illusion you won't be disillusioned.

umbra


appl appl appl

Question: Are you an Anarchist? I love Anarchists...
quote:
applapplappl

Question: Are you an Anarchist? I love Anarchists...


I decided I'm a Machiavellian Libertatian.

Not to be confused with the Randy Andy Libertarians. The self professed followers of Ayn Rand. How can people who claim to practice scientific objectivism not talk about planned obsolescence of automobiles 36 years after the moon landing? Not very scientific. lol

umbrarchist
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
To misquote Morpheus:

"Welcome to the intellectual desert of the real." lol

I think our educational system is a scam. Children's time is wasted in grammar school and high school when their mind's are most ready to assimilate information, then people need to go to college because they still know so little. It's about making money wasting people's time. But in this society not having that piece of paper is a form of economic suicide.

So you need to find the right books to truly educate yourself and put up with the BS in school for the paper. If you don't believe the illusion you won't be disillusioned.

umbra


appl appl appl

Question: Are you an Anarchist? I love Anarchists...


I was almost an anarcho-syndicalist (anarchist socialist). Now I'm a decentralized sociaist (semi-anarcho socialist).
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
Imagine if black colleges taught about true african american history, imagine if we as a people financed programs and research that studies topics important to us , how strong could the impact be. What if our best and brightest taught at these schools, what if we developed strong international programs so that black schools in america can hook up with black schools all over the globe especially in africa, how big could this be,


My argument is that there are indeed colleges, departments, and professors who possess these very same goals that you are advocating. Na'im Akbar, a renowed Black psychologist, activist, and Afrocentric scholar has been a professor at Floria State University since 1979. Molefi Kete Asante, a controversial African-American scholar whose book Afrocentricity generated the term "Afrocentrism" is currently a Professor of African-American Studies at Temple University, where he created the world's first doctoral program in African American Studies in 1987. Marimba Ani, author of Yurugu: An African-Centered Critique of European Cultural Thought and Behavior was a professor at Hunter College, New York for 30 years! Therefore, the professors and departments are out there. We just cannot expect for these people to come to us. You have to make the contacts, the phone calls, and the visits. Be persistent, hungry, and eager for whatever it is you are aiming to achieve. Stop waiting around for it just to happen.

"A person who does the very best that he can to reach his goals is rarely disappointed."
-Rowe
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
To misquote Morpheus:

I think our educational system is a scam. Children's time is wasted in grammar school and high school when their mind's are most ready to assimilate information.


I get so very tired of people suggesting that we "do away" with the educational system, offering no recommendations as to how we are to get the masses of Black children to perform academically on par with other children. These people are often the least likely to do anything about the problems they observe in our nation's education system. I understand, fully, people's gripe with the "educational system." I work within this sytem on a daily basis, but we need to grow up and accept the reality that this "system" is not going anywhere. Therefore, your issues with the system has to go far beyond mere complaints. Complaint time is over. Everyone has hopefully read Carver's The Mis-Education of The Negro. Now, let's take the ideas that he proposed a step further. Now, we need action-oriented people who are willing to make a reality the changes they feel are desparately needed in our children's education. Are you willing to visit schools, volunteer your time with students, speak with your local public officials, consult administators, principals, and superintendents, or even suggest a different way to approach a history or social studies lesson to your children's teachers?, because these are the ACTIONS that precede resolution.
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quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
To misquote Morpheus:

"Welcome to the intellectual desert of the real." lol

I think our educational system is a scam. Children's time is wasted in grammar school and high school when their mind's are most ready to assimilate information, then people need to go to college because they still know so little. It's about making money wasting people's time. But in this society not having that piece of paper is a form of economic suicide.

So you need to find the right books to truly educate yourself and put up with the BS in school for the paper. If you don't believe the illusion you won't be disillusioned.

umbra


appl appl appl

Question: Are you an Anarchist? I love Anarchists...


I was almost an anarcho-syndicalist (anarchist socialist). Now I'm a decentralized sociaist (semi-anarcho socialist).


hat
Hats off to a fellow socialist. I'm a Nkrumahism - Tureism scientific socialist Pan Africanist. I like the fact that the local anarchists always offer t get arrested for 'us' at protests.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
To misquote Morpheus:

"Welcome to the intellectual desert of the real." lol

I think our educational system is a scam. Children's time is wasted in grammar school and high school when their mind's are most ready to assimilate information, then people need to go to college because they still know so little. It's about making money wasting people's time. But in this society not having that piece of paper is a form of economic suicide.

So you need to find the right books to truly educate yourself and put up with the BS in school for the paper. If you don't believe the illusion you won't be disillusioned.

umbra


appl appl appl

Question: Are you an Anarchist? I love Anarchists...


I was almost an anarcho-syndicalist (anarchist socialist). Now I'm a decentralized sociaist (semi-anarcho socialist).


hat
Hats off to a fellow socialist. I'm a Nkrumahism - Tureism scientific socialist Pan Africanist. I like the fact that the local anarchists always offer t get arrested for 'us' at protests.


Haha, I know what you mean. It always seems that Leftists are the only ones sticking up for non-Whites and the oppressed.

You're a Nkrumist? KEWL! tfro Kwame Nkrumah was one of my favorite people in African history!! Him and Patrice Lumumba (who I have pictured in my new avatar).

Hats off to you too, comrade. hat
quote:
I get so very tired of people suggesting that we "do away" with the educational system, then turn right around and wonder why Black children are not performing academically on par with other children. These very same people are often the least likely to do anything about the problems they observe in our nation's education system.


Where did I say do away with the educational system?

I put together a reading list which you haven't said much about except criticise that some people might object to BLACK MEN: OBSOLETE, SINGLE, DANGEROUS? When I pointed to that website with that model engine you said I should be working with the tech people at your school. It is like you only approve of things that already fit into your vision of education.

My reading list is still there:

http://africanamericansovereignty.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13

Want to suggest any additions?

umbrarchist

http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/791602...081099853#5081099853
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