quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Women's fault...Men's fault... we're both conditioned to live in this system which was not created by us. We're all at fault and none of us at fault at the same time.


I can accept this response, but what's even more vexing--and perhaps you can help me to understand--is why don't these men who are always complaining about some women's attraction to thugs take heed to their own advice?


Personally, I've only directly experienced this once (as bad that was). I have indeed dated a variety of women from different backgrounds.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Max:
but when black men achieve this same level of success, they're considered arrogant, conceited, less "black" & less "manly", than that "thug" name Omar who only claim to fame is strutting & grabbing his dick;


I have experienced this from some (and I stress some) professional women. It is strange isn't it?


It's worse than strange brother Honestbrother, its quite sad actually. It's sad that some Black people, in the 21st century, still cannot identify with success.
I'm quite accustomed to many black women going for the "thug" type whether he's a real thug or fashionable thug (which is normally the case), so I don't necessarily disapprove of women getting with them; I respect and appreciate a black woman's right to date/fuck whomever she wants...it's when this "strong, intelligent black woman" choses to ignore the consequences of dealing with these "thug" types-that's what I dissaprove of; when shit hits the fan in this type of relationship, she comes down with a wicked case of Cognitive Dissonance - blaming everybody from the priest, to the milkman, the clerk at Pathmark, the bus-driver and the paper-boy long before taking responsibilty for her own actions for getting involved with Mr. Thug-life. She stresses her independence to date/fuck whomever she choses, and expect everybody to respect that right (that's fair); yet, when she sees me holding hands with a with a white girl name "Becky" (or some spanish girl name "Jaunita") she ignores my right to date/fuck whomever I want, and decides to "tell it like it is" saying I'm full of "self-hatred" & full of shit?! bang

Yes, HonestBrother, it is strange (cue Twilight Zone Theme song) Eek
quote:
Originally posted by Max:
She stresses her independence to date/fuck whomever she choses, and expect everybody to respect that right (that's fair); yet, when she sees me holding hands with a with a white girl name "Becky" (or some spanish girl name "Jaunita") she ignores my right to date/fuck whomever I want, and decides to "tell it like it is" saying I'm full of "self-hatred" & full of shit?! bang

Ahh... yes... and the wheel spins again... Frown
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Sister Virtue
Sister Rowe.... How are you? I miss the picture in your avatar of the woman in ceremonial dress and makeup... she was beautiful....

quote:
even though brother Detroit's thread is loaded with sweeping generalizations made about Black women, you should be credited for at least answering his question.
Dear Sister.... I used to be a philosohpy major and English major... If I wanted to pick apart his argument.... I could....

But I sensed pain in his question.... a yearining and confusion.... I decided not to intellectually debate him.... but to offer comfort in understanding.... I simply wanted him to know that his experiences have reasons.... and there are many varied reasons.... mine is one of many....


--Qty's experience is one where some Intelligent Black Women in some twisted logic may actually feel safer with a thug... or someone unemployed because they are intimidated by Successful Black Men.....

--You just described how some women turn to thugs because that is all they have known....

The point is.... he's not off... we are human... we have varied experiences.... no matter how painful..... and in our community of Black women.... we have different tastes, motives... and choices.... He is a man... looking at a phenomenon around him and doesn't understand it.... I simply was hoping to shed a bit of light for him.... not lower the image of Black Women or generalize us.... There are many beautiful Black sisters on this board that are a testament that we are more rich and varied than others may give us credit for... I think the brothers here know this and respect it......


quote:
Everyone prefers to blame rather than discuss the deep underlying issues that cause some people to fall by the wayside.
I see it less as blame... more as "venting" and in all honesty... "trusting" that there will be someone here to help sort through this with him.... I could be wrong.... but nonetheless I don't feel he was blaming Black Women for anything.... People tend to speak in generalizations..... the conundrum is that this isn't always the intention... so I give others the benefit of the doubt.... everyone's true colors show eventually.... and then I change or not change accordingly....



Peace,
Virtue
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quote:

Cognitive dissonance is a perceived inconsistency between two cognitions in which the person believes one thing but then acts in a different way from what they believed. Or holds other beliefs which conflct with the first.


I should point out that "cognitive dissonance" is a term with a much wider field of applicability than the mating habits of particular people. The definition given above is more or less accurate. And we all suffer from cognitive dissonance on some level.
Good topic detroit1 - Don't let a few haughty, bulldog responses discourage you. Of all places, Black men and women should be able to honestly discuss the phenomena around them at AA.org, especially when it pertains to Black folk. Instead of sweeping things under the rug & denying they happen, we need more honest answers like virtue's. We may not always like the answers, but ultimately we appreciate them.


If anything, detroit1 is asking the sisters here to talk to other sisters, since no one here is guilty of the behavior described. Just like we (men) are constantly implored to get our acts together (even if we aren't guilty of the behavior described by women here) and talk to our wayward brothers, we can ask the same of you.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:

Yes, among other issues, this topic is a heavily debated issue in Washington, DC. In fact, a popular radio host by the name of Michael Baisden discusses this issue quite often on his radio program. And each time that he brings this issue up ("Single Black Women"), a swarm of Black women call in to voice their concerns. I'm only 29 years old, and right now, I'm doing OK in terms of dating. But after listening to all of these women well into their 30's and 40's calling and complaining, frankly, I'm beginning to get a little worried.



women should understand that as they age, their desirability in the dating/meet market goes down [for the most part]. Women simply have to change their strategy in their manhunting.
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quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
He is a man... looking at a phenomenon around him and doesn't understand it.... I simply was hoping to shed a bit of light for him.... not lower the image of Black Women or generalize us.... There are many beautiful Black sisters on this board that are a testament that we are more rich and varied than others may give us credit for... I think the brothers here know this and respect it......


Virtue
Your ability to see clearly and intuitively into the nature of this complex
issue is undeniable.
---------CONFLICT THEORY------------

I am beginning to see a new power struggle; originally, it was/is between the
established black man (representing patriarchy or what's left of it) and the
feminist ideology of the modern black woman.

Now I see a struggle between the established black man and the non-conforming
black thug; all for the favor of the black woman.

It will take an aggressive and firm foot to shatter the misconception that thugs
are deserving of the black woman's favor.

Question is how important is it to the traditional, structured black man that he
be number one in the eye of all black women?

I don't believe that the favoritism many black women have for thugs is sincere
and genuine. To me, this preference is out of pure spite and defiance of the black
Patriarch (past, present and future).
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
If anything, detroit1 is asking the sisters here to talk to other sisters, since no one here is guilty of the behavior described. Just like we (men) are constantly implored to get our acts together (even if we aren't guilty of the behavior described by women here) and talk to our wayward brothers, we can ask the same of you.


Very good good point ddouble! tfro
Hey, Viking, what can I say, this is the type of world we live in, and I'm only refering to the black women that are like my female relatives & Virtue's friends: black women who are the SOURCE of their own CD, but too immature to own up to it.

We blacks have a history of WANTING to see black men occupy higher stations in the world for the sole purpose of inspiring us to do just as good or better...also, to prove the hordes of racist naysayers wrong. Let me ask you all a question, how many times have this happen to you: whenever you'd witnessed a matter of consequence taking place (be it in the corporate world, politics or science etc) wouldn't there always be another black person that nudge you and say (under their breath): "Notice there ain't no black people there, right" or "Where da brothas" (then you both would give each other *that look*)?

To rid ourselves of this tired-ass, self-defeating scenerio, black men had to prove that they are just as good as, just as smart as, just as competent as and just as creative as...it's fuckin annoying when these very same achievements are used AGAINST black men in a negative way, especially by black women (like my relatives) who CONSTANTLY bitch & moan about good-man shortages, man-crises and supposedly lousy dating-pools filled with UNATTRACTIVE, UNEMPLOYED, UNEDUCATED, UNAMBITIOUS black men who "ain't about shit".


"Cognitive Dissonance" is a clever sounding clinical name, but in lay terms it's really just a cute way of saying (a black person's) social ineptitude generated from the fear of rejection, followed by a BRUTAL REALITY-CHECK (where he/she is forced to evaluate & acknowledge where they REALLY stand in the black social strata).

My Prescription: Grow the fuck up, stop getting in your own way, and learn the kind of social skills that are conducive to the type of love/social life you so desire (men & women alike). C'mon!!
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Women's fault...Men's fault... we're both conditioned to live in this system which was not created by us. We're all at fault and none of us at fault at the same time.


I can accept this response, but what's even more vexing--and perhaps you can help me to understand--is why don't these men who are always complaining about some women's attraction to thugs take heed to their own advice? Why don't they make better choices in women? If your relationship with a woman ends because ultimately she prefers to be with a misfit, then she is not a person that you want to be involved with in the first place! What's worse, if you find yourself consistently involved with street women, then I think a self-evaluation is in order.


Aint that the truth....that is why that it is my life's goal to avoid with a passion only matched by my desire to be a great pathologist, sistas who share or strongly hold onto the idealology of the ideal god/thug man....it is a futile idea bread out of childish notions that should have been discarded a long time ago....and it entails nothing but anguish for guys like me...So, Rowe, your suggestion is well taken and actually has been acted upon over the last several years.
quote:
Originally posted by Max:
I'm quite accustomed to many black women going for the "thug" type whether he's a real thug or fashionable thug (which is normally the case), so I don't necessarily disapprove of women getting with them; I respect and appreciate a black woman's right to date/fuck whomever she wants...it's when this "strong, intelligent black woman" choses to ignore the consequences of dealing with these "thug" types-that's what I dissaprove of; when shit hits the fan in this type of relationship, she comes down with a wicked case of Cognitive Dissonance - blaming everybody from the priest, to the milkman, the clerk at Pathmark, the bus-driver and the paper-boy long before taking responsibilty for her own actions for getting involved with Mr. Thug-life. She stresses her independence to date/fuck whomever she choses, and expect everybody to respect that right (that's fair); yet, when she sees me holding hands with a with a white girl name "Becky" (or some spanish girl name "Jaunita") she ignores my right to date/fuck whomever I want, and decides to "tell it like it is" saying I'm full of "self-hatred" & full of shit?! bang

Yes, HonestBrother, it is strange (cue Twilight Zone Theme song) Eek


My sentiments exactly....
I understand where Detroit1 is coming from...I live in Detroit, and the situation is a bit different than in other regions of the U.S.

Yes, there are SOME Black Women who make bad choices in their relationships and lives. As there are Black men who do the same...I grew up in a negative environment, and had to contend with the "negative-types".

Over the years, I've actually helped about twenty of these people (fifteen male, five female) to get their stuff together.

There were certain truths I've come to accept:

1) The universe is that which it is; not what we want it to be. Improvement takes time, hard work and dedication,
2) The challenge is to be the best individual you can be.
3) It is better to try and fail, than to never try at all"”the true failure is in never making the attempt.
4) You can sit on the side-lines of life if you wish to, but in doing so you lose the right to gripe.
5) When ever you see a person for the first time, one must remember that there's more to that individual's life than the moment when you first see them.
6) This is true for all. Yes, even the white guy in the BMW...He has to make payments on that car, and that house, and that suit and all the other stuff this society forces upon him. Most U.S. citizens are one payday away from disaster. The time/energy one spends hating is put to better use building one's life and improving one's situation.
7) Not all women are evil (I just had the bad luck of attracting negative women) and not all women are the marrying kind. (yes, the same is true of men.)
8) The easiest way to enslave a person is to give him everything he wants"”but first, he must be instructed what to want. (And never to question why he wants it.)
I've learned long ago to take what black women say they want with a grain of salt. As long as I'm doing right by me and mine I can afford to wait for "Ms. Right" (whatever that means). Let the "thugs" *or as I like to call them..."gangstas lite"* have the women. I no longer give a damn. She might be with "2 cents" but shes eyeing my platinum Visa. She's hanging all over "CB 4" but shes with her friends talking about my Armani three piece suit with the patton leather Giorgio shoes. And I'm laughing the whole time. When she's ready to grow up and step into the big leagues she knows where to find me. Until then, let her say one thing and do another. Real men have better things to do with thier time.....Peace! dance
Gambit...

Question...

I know youre a decent guy, with a beautiful daughter that you adore.

With that being said.....are there no decent women in your area...that you could possibly meet?

Are you saying, that all of these women are either looking for financial gain, or want to deal with thugs?
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
Gambit...

Question...

I know youre a decent guy, with a beautiful daughter that you adore.

With that being said.....are there no decent women in your area...that you could possibly meet?

Are you saying, that all of these women are either looking for financial gain, or want to deal with thugs?


So far since I was put back here by my job all I've encountered are women that desire the "rap video" lifestyle (even though its nowhere around here except in clothing fashions) and women who are goldiggers and proudly proclaim it...although I do give them props for being honest and upfront about it..so I volunteer for TDY's (tempory tour of duty) just to meet other women in different cities and countries now. sad
Gambit....

Just know, that there are tons of black women that are not interested in thugs.......or use men for financial gain.

Keep searching....as we all are. tfro

(I guess i better travel too!!) Smile
Sister Rowe.... How are you? I miss the picture in your avatar of the woman in ceremonial dress and makeup... she was beautiful....

I'm doing well. The woman featured in my last avatar was actually a native African woman from the Fulani tribe. I'll put the image of the woman up again, in the future.

quote:
But I sensed pain in his question.... a yearining and confusion....I decided not to intellectually debate him.... but to offer comfort in understanding.


Dig Deeper, and Start Pursuing Women of Substance, Not Pin-Up Bimbo Models

Sister there are a lot of people here who are confused and in pain, apparently. Therefore this brother's grievances are no different from those that have been expressed here before. One of the ways that we can address his confusion, however, is by not allowing his misconceptions about women to go unchallenged. I hate to come across as mean, but what I've noticed is that it's usually busters who know darn well that they're out of their league that go after the the most superficial, most attractive, most image-conscious women they can find. Unfortunately, however, these are the type of women who are often the LEAST interested in them. After their self-confidence has taken one punch too many, then they want to come into a dicussion forum and bitch about how "all women are stuck up, materialistic, and superficial." Well if you're pursuing women who are like this, then what the hell else can you expect! But if you instead pursued women in your league, and more importantly, women of SUBSTANCE rather than women who you deem good enough to parade in front of their friends, then perhaps you would not face constant rejection. After unsuccessfully picking "lookers" to pursue, don't come in here blaming us cause you can't get you a "dime piece." Why not get a 5 piece with a 10+ brain, someone with whom you can actually build a worthwhile relationship, rather than just fuck on the weekends and front off before your friends.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
I'm doing well. The woman featured in my last avatar was actually a native African woman from the Fulani tribe. I'll put the image of the woman up again, in the future.


Sister Rowe, she was quite beautiful indeed. I look forward to her return Smile

quote:

I hate to come across as mean, but what I've noticed is that it's usually busters who know darn well that they're out of their league that go after the the most superficial, most attractive, most image-conscious women they can find. Unfortunately, however, these are the type of women who are often the LEAST interested in them. After their self-confidence has taken one punch too many, then they want to come into a dicussion forum and bitch about how "all women are materialistic and superficial." But if these men pursued women in their league, and more importantly women of SUBSTANCE rather than women who they deem good enough to parade in front of their friends, then perhaps they wouldn't face constant rejection.


It seems that we had a similar discussion sometime ago and sistas insisted on their right to go after the "cream of the crop" - apparently some were sick and tired of being told to be more "realistic".... my gosh to even possibly consider a talented janitor with a bright future....


hmmmmm
Don't worry, I'm featuring another beauty in my avatar soon. All I'm saying is you get what you go after. I hate to use myself as an example, because I don't want to be the focus of this disucssion. But admittedly, I'm very image-conscious. Immaculate grooming, quality dress, and making an impression are all very important to me. But every now and again, I get this busted-ass dude looking like "Who done it?" coming up to me asking me out on a date. Why the hell would I want to be seen with someone who can't even keep lint out his hair and cold crust out of his eyes? On one occasion, after telling dude that I definitely was not interested in him, he called me stuck up. Whatever.

Because men are supposedly more visual than women, a mistake they often make when seeking women is to consider a woman's looks first, and the compatibility between himself and the woman later (often times too damn late). In other words, they see a woman who is drop dead gorgeoes, and immediately, they go after her. Never does it dawn on them, however, to ask themselves prior to approaching the woman, What do I have in common with this woman? or Will she find me attractive? Men don't think before they do something, they just impulsively act on picking up a woman, deciding to just "work out the kinks" later. And that is what I don't understand. If you're going to use this method of dating, then don't get mad at us for rejecting you.
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quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:

I hate to come across as mean, but what I've noticed is that it's usually busters who know darn well that they're out of their league that go after the the most superficial, most attractive, most image-conscious women they can find. Unfortunately, however, these are the type of women who are often the LEAST interested in them. After their self-confidence has taken one punch too many, then they want to come into a dicussion forum and bitch about how "all women are materialistic and superficial." But if these men pursued women in their league, and more importantly women of SUBSTANCE rather than women who they deem good enough to parade in front of their friends, then perhaps they wouldn't face constant rejection.


It seems that we had a similar discussion sometime ago and sistas insisted on their right to go after the "cream of the crop" - apparently some were sick and tired of being told to be more "realistic".... my gosh to even possibly consider a talented janitor with a bright future....


hmmmmm


And when the discussion took place, sister Rowe was nowhere to be seen with this advice for the ladies. And she continues on with the nuggets of wisdom, just for us. I think I'll start posting some of her responses to the men (changing gender where appropriate, of course!) when responding to the ladies...
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
And when the discussion took place, sister Rowe was nowhere to be seen with this advice for the ladies. And she continues on with the nuggets of wisdom, just for us.


Brother Ddouble, are you implying that women and men pursue relationships in the same ways? Haven't we all reached the conclusion that men have a tendency to select women based on looks, whereas women select men based on income? So why would I give you all the same advice that I would give women? Secondly, in my view, though the two discussions centered on the same topic, the argument that was presented then, and the argument that's being presented now are not the same. In the discussion brother Honestbrother is referencing, the women, sister Frenchy in particular, was not defending a right to discriminately date superficial and materialistic men. Essentially, Frenchy was defending her right to fashion her own conception (whether it was a lawyer or a janitor) of what a "creme of crop" man means to her. And rather than acknowledging her argument, many of you all insisted on imposing your views of what you thought creme of crop meant to Frenchy, even though she never stated or described what her actual conception was.

If brother Detroit, however, re-enters this discussion, either today or tomorrow, to tell me that he does in fact pursue women of substance (that is, women who have a lot more to offer a relationship, other than their looks), then I will accept his testament as the truth, rather than reading something into his statements that are just not there.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Brother Ddouble, are you implying that women and men pursue relationships in the same ways? Haven't we all reached the conclusion that men have a tendency to select women based on looks, whereas women select men based on income? So why would I give you all the same advice that I would give women? Finally, in my view, though the two discussions centered on the same topic, the arguments that were being presented are not the same. In the discussion brother Honestbrother is referencing, the women, sister Frenchy in particular, was not defending a right to discriminately date superficial men. Essentially, Frenchy was defending her right to fashion her own conception (whether it was a lawyer or a janitor) of what a "creme of crop" man means to her.


Come, come, Rowe!

Pursue people of substance (not necessarily wealthy or good looking), people in your league, people with things in common with you...

Much of what you just said goes over verbatim to the ladies.

In that discussion, Frenchy seemed to be defending the right to go after whatever - for whatever superficial reasons (lots o' moola for example) however unrealistic. And you all are whining and compaining because you're not getting these "cream of the crop" men (whatever that means to you).

I can NOT believe you don't see the parallels.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
In that discussion, Frenchy seemed to be defending the right to go after whatever - for whatever superficial reasons (lots o' moola for example) however unrealistic.


Ok, you could be right. I came in on the discussion late. If she was defending the right to purse men for superficial reasons, then I do not support that. I thought the women were defending the right to have whatever conception of men they wanted.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Ok, you could be right. I came in on the discussion late. If she was defending the right to purse men for superficial reasons, then I do not support that. I thought the women were defending the right to have whatever conception of men they wanted.


She didn't specify a conception. But "cream of the crop" is a phrase that seems to imply "the sky's the limit"
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
I'm doing well. The woman featured in my last avatar was actually a native African woman from the Fulani tribe. I'll put the image of the woman up again, in the future.
Great! It would be nice to see..... Her beauty was captivating.... I have a cousin that looks like that....

quote:
Dig Deeper, and Start Pursuing Women of Substance, Not Pin-Up Bimbo Models
Hmmmm... I did not see where his question made reference to him approaching shallow Bimbo's...

quote:
Sister there are a lot of people here who are confused and in pain, apparently. Therefore this brother's grievances are no different from those that have been expressed here before.
If there are many here who are confused and in pain.... then is it wrong to offer solace through understanding? And I have been away from the board for many months until now... so even if he or others have expressed their grievances before.... usually this is the mark of one who is trying to say that there questions aren't answered.... or for some reason their mind is still at unease.... I see this as human.... not something to be frustrated with.....

quote:
One of the ways that we can address his confusion, however, is by not allowing his misconceptions about women to go unchallenged.
Agreed... that is... if he really has a misconception.... I really don't think he does.... because I have experienced what he has articulated.... I know women like this..... they are not Bimbo's, shallow, lower class etc.... and this is the confusion I think he refers to.... how can some women make such bad choices in a partner? I don't think he specified whether the woman was a Bimbo or not... if he did then that would not be a contradiction.... He spoke of a contradiction.... so if I had to assume.... I would assume he meant a woman with "some" substance... at least in his eyes.... the women he deems are worthy are making odd choices to him..... I happen to know women who are of substance..... who make crazy choices.... I consider myself a woman of substance and I've made crazy choices before.... and I have to reflect on why..... it happens... no big deal... you reflect, analyze, learn... and move on....

quote:
I hate to come across as mean,
I don't think so.... Smile.... You strike me as a woman who is very focused and confident about her view of life....

quote:
but what I've noticed is that it's usually busters who know darn well that they're out of their league that go after the the most superficial, most attractive, most image-conscious women they can find. Unfortunately, however, these are the type of women who are often the LEAST interested in them. After their self-confidence has taken one punch too many, then they want to come into a dicussion forum and bitch about how "all women are stuck up, materialistic, and superficial." Well if you're pursuing women who are like this, then what the hell else can you expect! But if you instead pursued women in your league, and more importantly, women of SUBSTANCE rather than women who you deem good enough to parade in front of their friends, then perhaps you would not face constant rejection. After unsuccessfully picking "lookers" to pursue, don't come in here blaming us cause you can't get you a "dime piece." Why not get a 5 piece with a 10+ brain, someone with whom you can actually build a worthwhile relationship, rather than just fuck on the weekends and front off before your friends.
When I see this type of response by brothers... I usually ignore it.... but I don't here...


Peace,
Virtue
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Perhaps it is a matter of maturity. Some younger brothers and sisters are still attempting to navigate through this maze we call life. As experience is without question the best teacher, many people tend to "get it together" when their priorities are set, their goals are established and they begin to incorporate life's lessons into their thought processes and take deliberate steps to establish their goals, priorities, and futures. This applies not only to relationships, but to life in general.

Education does not equal intelligence as we all know there are brothers and sisters who are "educated" idiots. Part of knowing what you want in a relationship is knowing what you do NOT want. Trial, error, and a few broken hearts are the way many people get their dual degrees in "lifeology" and "relationshipology" which are the only "degrees" that truly matter when it comes to matters of the heart. Unfortunately, far too many have a difficult time when the school of life presents us with courses in "thugology" and "chickenheadology". If an individual can not pass those courses, it is impossible to graduate. Far too many individuals are taking remedial courses in these subjects because they just don't get it!

Far too often, many educated individuals of both genders tend to discuss their degrees and credentials ad nauseum as though their academic achievements in and of themselves make them a great romantic catch. Okay, so you have your MBA and are a business executive. Terrific!!! Now, how good are you at making light conversation, making me laugh, being my partner, and having my back when sh*t gets rough?

Conversely (and thankfully), many individuals with or without formal degrees discuss their lives, dreams, and goals which makes for far more interesting conversation. If all an individual has to bring to the relationship table is academic credentials, it is time to, as my Twin says, banish them to the "hell naw" zone! You can't go forward looking back, and that degree is history so let's step into the now!

I could eat cold Beefaroni out of a can with an individual who is focused, committed, has his degree in "lifeology", has his priorities straight, and is on a deliberately chartered course. I would gag on filet mignon if it is garnished with a few pieces of paper that merely serve to put a few letters after a name but has prepared them for absolutely nothing. As always, it is merely my humble opinion.
Wonderful post, Sandye. kiss

Many folks can say that some men and women are pursuing those out of one's league. The question is "what" league are we in? Are the leagues measured by height? Body tone? Income? Confidence level?

I was friends with many female jocks and cheerleaders because I knew them in my classes. Many of my male friends in college didn't try to talk to them b/c they thought they weren't in they're "league." But they gave me high fives sometimes, thinking I was "macking" them, but I really talking to them about the homework.

I'll admit that looking back at the gymnasts, cheerleaders and homecoming queens that I asked out, MANY of them were out of my league. Fortunately, I didn't care because I gotten props from my friends for being brave enough to approach them.

I used to think that I was out of their league when I counted all the no's I received back in the day, but a former co-worker once said to me, "there's no such thing as out of one's league. If you believe you're less than, then you'll never achieve or take a risk in anything." And he was right. There's no major league and (AAA)minor league versions of "Love Connection."

IMHO, no ones wants to believe that they're out of anyone's league, real or not. And as long as there's shows like The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, Joe Millionaire and Flavor of Love (shuddering) on the air, don't come to me with some "I'm out of your league" crap.

If there are women fighting (staged or not) over Flavor Flav, and you KNOW he's not making any cash or records (no Diddy or Jay-Z $$$) since most of his money is going to child support for his 6 or 7 kids, anything is possible. Since I don't have kids at all, maybe there's hope for me. Big Grin
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandye:
Perhaps it is a matter of maturity. Some younger brothers and sisters are still attempting to navigate through this maze we call life..... Far too often, many educated individuals of both genders tend to discuss their degrees and credentials ad nauseum as though their academic achievements in and of themselves make them a great romantic catch. ....* Now, how good are you at making light conversation, making me laugh, being my partner, and having my back when sh*t gets rough? *.........I could eat cold Beefaroni out of a can with an individual who is focused, committed, has his degree in "lifeology", has his priorities straight, and is on a deliberately chartered course. I would gag on filet mignon if it is garnished with a few pieces of paper that merely serve to put a few letters after a name but has prepared them for absolutely nothing. As always, it is merely my humble opinion.


bow bow bow bow bow bow

appl

Beautiful post! kiss
quote:
Originally posted by Sandye:
Perhaps it is a matter of maturity. Some younger brothers and sisters are still.......


Simply beautiful!!!!! tfro


catch
Uummmm i think the young brothas and sistas ...........are learning from the older ones.

.....And at this point, no one seems to be getting it right!!
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
If brother Detroit, however, re-enters this discussion, either today or tomorrow, to tell me that he does in fact pursue women of substance (that is, women who have a lot more to offer a relationship, other than their looks), then I will accept his testament as the truth, rather than reading something into his statements that are just not there.


Not to leave you hanging, but sure; I pursue women of substance. (I didn't mean
to infer that I didn't).

I'll share. Substance to me as a balance of mind, body and soul: A combination of tacit intelligence, enticing physical and a heart sweet as pie.

And like many men, I've been through a developmental stage in life where I made the mistake of seeking out sistas strictly based on how good the sight of her in tight pants/jeans fit her thighs and ass; I was totally helpless to it.

Fortunately, I evolved pass the two dimensional to a point where I find the most
assurance in non-tangible, real qualities like personality; I've come to realize that a
women's beauty is projected from her inside out coming together in everything
that she is. This didn't happen biologically; I had to figure this out on my own.
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
I know women like this..... they are not Bimbo's, shallow, lower class etc.... and this is the confusion I think he refers to.... how can some women make such bad choices in a partner?


Sister Virtue, brother Detroit never used the word some to describe his perception of Black women. As far as brother Detroit is concerned, Black women make poor choices in men in general because we're all suffering from what he described as "cognitive dissonance." But the truth is, women from all racial categories make "bad" choices in men, and men do the same. If they didn't, they wouldn't be in here complaining about the unsuccessful choices they've made.

The reason why I'm so disturbed by the ideas being presented in this thread is because I take strong offense to this general perception of women as being these emotionally-unstable, dim-witted, and niave women who require "special guidance." Not surprisingly, this seems to be the chauvinistic perception of women that most men here have adopted, even though they make the very same poor choices. Ironically, when women are going the process of determining what's important in a relationship, we're judged for making "bad choices." When men go through the very same process, they're given a free pass for just "sorting their wild oats." Going around chasing ass is understood to be just apart of "being a man."

And like many men, I've been through a developmental stage in life where I made the mistake of seeking out sistas strictly based on how good the sight of her in tight pants/jeans fit her thighs and ass; I was totally helpless to it.-Detroit
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