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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
I'm doing well. The woman featured in my last avatar was actually a native African woman from the Fulani tribe. I'll put the image of the woman up again, in the future.


Sister Rowe, she was quite beautiful indeed. I look forward to her return Smile

quote:

I hate to come across as mean, but what I've noticed is that it's usually busters who know darn well that they're out of their league that go after the the most superficial, most attractive, most image-conscious women they can find. Unfortunately, however, these are the type of women who are often the LEAST interested in them. After their self-confidence has taken one punch too many, then they want to come into a dicussion forum and bitch about how "all women are materialistic and superficial." But if these men pursued women in their league, and more importantly women of SUBSTANCE rather than women who they deem good enough to parade in front of their friends, then perhaps they wouldn't face constant rejection.


It seems that we had a similar discussion sometime ago and sistas insisted on their right to go after the "cream of the crop" - apparently some were sick and tired of being told to be more "realistic".... my gosh to even possibly consider a talented janitor with a bright future....


hmmmmm
Don't worry, I'm featuring another beauty in my avatar soon. All I'm saying is you get what you go after. I hate to use myself as an example, because I don't want to be the focus of this disucssion. But admittedly, I'm very image-conscious. Immaculate grooming, quality dress, and making an impression are all very important to me. But every now and again, I get this busted-ass dude looking like "Who done it?" coming up to me asking me out on a date. Why the hell would I want to be seen with someone who can't even keep lint out his hair and cold crust out of his eyes? On one occasion, after telling dude that I definitely was not interested in him, he called me stuck up. Whatever.

Because men are supposedly more visual than women, a mistake they often make when seeking women is to consider a woman's looks first, and the compatibility between himself and the woman later (often times too damn late). In other words, they see a woman who is drop dead gorgeoes, and immediately, they go after her. Never does it dawn on them, however, to ask themselves prior to approaching the woman, What do I have in common with this woman? or Will she find me attractive? Men don't think before they do something, they just impulsively act on picking up a woman, deciding to just "work out the kinks" later. And that is what I don't understand. If you're going to use this method of dating, then don't get mad at us for rejecting you.
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quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:

I hate to come across as mean, but what I've noticed is that it's usually busters who know darn well that they're out of their league that go after the the most superficial, most attractive, most image-conscious women they can find. Unfortunately, however, these are the type of women who are often the LEAST interested in them. After their self-confidence has taken one punch too many, then they want to come into a dicussion forum and bitch about how "all women are materialistic and superficial." But if these men pursued women in their league, and more importantly women of SUBSTANCE rather than women who they deem good enough to parade in front of their friends, then perhaps they wouldn't face constant rejection.


It seems that we had a similar discussion sometime ago and sistas insisted on their right to go after the "cream of the crop" - apparently some were sick and tired of being told to be more "realistic".... my gosh to even possibly consider a talented janitor with a bright future....


hmmmmm


And when the discussion took place, sister Rowe was nowhere to be seen with this advice for the ladies. And she continues on with the nuggets of wisdom, just for us. I think I'll start posting some of her responses to the men (changing gender where appropriate, of course!) when responding to the ladies...
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
And when the discussion took place, sister Rowe was nowhere to be seen with this advice for the ladies. And she continues on with the nuggets of wisdom, just for us.


Brother Ddouble, are you implying that women and men pursue relationships in the same ways? Haven't we all reached the conclusion that men have a tendency to select women based on looks, whereas women select men based on income? So why would I give you all the same advice that I would give women? Secondly, in my view, though the two discussions centered on the same topic, the argument that was presented then, and the argument that's being presented now are not the same. In the discussion brother Honestbrother is referencing, the women, sister Frenchy in particular, was not defending a right to discriminately date superficial and materialistic men. Essentially, Frenchy was defending her right to fashion her own conception (whether it was a lawyer or a janitor) of what a "creme of crop" man means to her. And rather than acknowledging her argument, many of you all insisted on imposing your views of what you thought creme of crop meant to Frenchy, even though she never stated or described what her actual conception was.

If brother Detroit, however, re-enters this discussion, either today or tomorrow, to tell me that he does in fact pursue women of substance (that is, women who have a lot more to offer a relationship, other than their looks), then I will accept his testament as the truth, rather than reading something into his statements that are just not there.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Brother Ddouble, are you implying that women and men pursue relationships in the same ways? Haven't we all reached the conclusion that men have a tendency to select women based on looks, whereas women select men based on income? So why would I give you all the same advice that I would give women? Finally, in my view, though the two discussions centered on the same topic, the arguments that were being presented are not the same. In the discussion brother Honestbrother is referencing, the women, sister Frenchy in particular, was not defending a right to discriminately date superficial men. Essentially, Frenchy was defending her right to fashion her own conception (whether it was a lawyer or a janitor) of what a "creme of crop" man means to her.


Come, come, Rowe!

Pursue people of substance (not necessarily wealthy or good looking), people in your league, people with things in common with you...

Much of what you just said goes over verbatim to the ladies.

In that discussion, Frenchy seemed to be defending the right to go after whatever - for whatever superficial reasons (lots o' moola for example) however unrealistic. And you all are whining and compaining because you're not getting these "cream of the crop" men (whatever that means to you).

I can NOT believe you don't see the parallels.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
In that discussion, Frenchy seemed to be defending the right to go after whatever - for whatever superficial reasons (lots o' moola for example) however unrealistic.


Ok, you could be right. I came in on the discussion late. If she was defending the right to purse men for superficial reasons, then I do not support that. I thought the women were defending the right to have whatever conception of men they wanted.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Ok, you could be right. I came in on the discussion late. If she was defending the right to purse men for superficial reasons, then I do not support that. I thought the women were defending the right to have whatever conception of men they wanted.


She didn't specify a conception. But "cream of the crop" is a phrase that seems to imply "the sky's the limit"
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
I'm doing well. The woman featured in my last avatar was actually a native African woman from the Fulani tribe. I'll put the image of the woman up again, in the future.
Great! It would be nice to see..... Her beauty was captivating.... I have a cousin that looks like that....

quote:
Dig Deeper, and Start Pursuing Women of Substance, Not Pin-Up Bimbo Models
Hmmmm... I did not see where his question made reference to him approaching shallow Bimbo's...

quote:
Sister there are a lot of people here who are confused and in pain, apparently. Therefore this brother's grievances are no different from those that have been expressed here before.
If there are many here who are confused and in pain.... then is it wrong to offer solace through understanding? And I have been away from the board for many months until now... so even if he or others have expressed their grievances before.... usually this is the mark of one who is trying to say that there questions aren't answered.... or for some reason their mind is still at unease.... I see this as human.... not something to be frustrated with.....

quote:
One of the ways that we can address his confusion, however, is by not allowing his misconceptions about women to go unchallenged.
Agreed... that is... if he really has a misconception.... I really don't think he does.... because I have experienced what he has articulated.... I know women like this..... they are not Bimbo's, shallow, lower class etc.... and this is the confusion I think he refers to.... how can some women make such bad choices in a partner? I don't think he specified whether the woman was a Bimbo or not... if he did then that would not be a contradiction.... He spoke of a contradiction.... so if I had to assume.... I would assume he meant a woman with "some" substance... at least in his eyes.... the women he deems are worthy are making odd choices to him..... I happen to know women who are of substance..... who make crazy choices.... I consider myself a woman of substance and I've made crazy choices before.... and I have to reflect on why..... it happens... no big deal... you reflect, analyze, learn... and move on....

quote:
I hate to come across as mean,
I don't think so.... Smile.... You strike me as a woman who is very focused and confident about her view of life....

quote:
but what I've noticed is that it's usually busters who know darn well that they're out of their league that go after the the most superficial, most attractive, most image-conscious women they can find. Unfortunately, however, these are the type of women who are often the LEAST interested in them. After their self-confidence has taken one punch too many, then they want to come into a dicussion forum and bitch about how "all women are stuck up, materialistic, and superficial." Well if you're pursuing women who are like this, then what the hell else can you expect! But if you instead pursued women in your league, and more importantly, women of SUBSTANCE rather than women who you deem good enough to parade in front of their friends, then perhaps you would not face constant rejection. After unsuccessfully picking "lookers" to pursue, don't come in here blaming us cause you can't get you a "dime piece." Why not get a 5 piece with a 10+ brain, someone with whom you can actually build a worthwhile relationship, rather than just fuck on the weekends and front off before your friends.
When I see this type of response by brothers... I usually ignore it.... but I don't here...


Peace,
Virtue
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Perhaps it is a matter of maturity. Some younger brothers and sisters are still attempting to navigate through this maze we call life. As experience is without question the best teacher, many people tend to "get it together" when their priorities are set, their goals are established and they begin to incorporate life's lessons into their thought processes and take deliberate steps to establish their goals, priorities, and futures. This applies not only to relationships, but to life in general.

Education does not equal intelligence as we all know there are brothers and sisters who are "educated" idiots. Part of knowing what you want in a relationship is knowing what you do NOT want. Trial, error, and a few broken hearts are the way many people get their dual degrees in "lifeology" and "relationshipology" which are the only "degrees" that truly matter when it comes to matters of the heart. Unfortunately, far too many have a difficult time when the school of life presents us with courses in "thugology" and "chickenheadology". If an individual can not pass those courses, it is impossible to graduate. Far too many individuals are taking remedial courses in these subjects because they just don't get it!

Far too often, many educated individuals of both genders tend to discuss their degrees and credentials ad nauseum as though their academic achievements in and of themselves make them a great romantic catch. Okay, so you have your MBA and are a business executive. Terrific!!! Now, how good are you at making light conversation, making me laugh, being my partner, and having my back when sh*t gets rough?

Conversely (and thankfully), many individuals with or without formal degrees discuss their lives, dreams, and goals which makes for far more interesting conversation. If all an individual has to bring to the relationship table is academic credentials, it is time to, as my Twin says, banish them to the "hell naw" zone! You can't go forward looking back, and that degree is history so let's step into the now!

I could eat cold Beefaroni out of a can with an individual who is focused, committed, has his degree in "lifeology", has his priorities straight, and is on a deliberately chartered course. I would gag on filet mignon if it is garnished with a few pieces of paper that merely serve to put a few letters after a name but has prepared them for absolutely nothing. As always, it is merely my humble opinion.
Wonderful post, Sandye. kiss

Many folks can say that some men and women are pursuing those out of one's league. The question is "what" league are we in? Are the leagues measured by height? Body tone? Income? Confidence level?

I was friends with many female jocks and cheerleaders because I knew them in my classes. Many of my male friends in college didn't try to talk to them b/c they thought they weren't in they're "league." But they gave me high fives sometimes, thinking I was "macking" them, but I really talking to them about the homework.

I'll admit that looking back at the gymnasts, cheerleaders and homecoming queens that I asked out, MANY of them were out of my league. Fortunately, I didn't care because I gotten props from my friends for being brave enough to approach them.

I used to think that I was out of their league when I counted all the no's I received back in the day, but a former co-worker once said to me, "there's no such thing as out of one's league. If you believe you're less than, then you'll never achieve or take a risk in anything." And he was right. There's no major league and (AAA)minor league versions of "Love Connection."

IMHO, no ones wants to believe that they're out of anyone's league, real or not. And as long as there's shows like The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, Joe Millionaire and Flavor of Love (shuddering) on the air, don't come to me with some "I'm out of your league" crap.

If there are women fighting (staged or not) over Flavor Flav, and you KNOW he's not making any cash or records (no Diddy or Jay-Z $$$) since most of his money is going to child support for his 6 or 7 kids, anything is possible. Since I don't have kids at all, maybe there's hope for me. Big Grin
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandye:
Perhaps it is a matter of maturity. Some younger brothers and sisters are still attempting to navigate through this maze we call life..... Far too often, many educated individuals of both genders tend to discuss their degrees and credentials ad nauseum as though their academic achievements in and of themselves make them a great romantic catch. ....* Now, how good are you at making light conversation, making me laugh, being my partner, and having my back when sh*t gets rough? *.........I could eat cold Beefaroni out of a can with an individual who is focused, committed, has his degree in "lifeology", has his priorities straight, and is on a deliberately chartered course. I would gag on filet mignon if it is garnished with a few pieces of paper that merely serve to put a few letters after a name but has prepared them for absolutely nothing. As always, it is merely my humble opinion.


bow bow bow bow bow bow

appl

Beautiful post! kiss
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
If brother Detroit, however, re-enters this discussion, either today or tomorrow, to tell me that he does in fact pursue women of substance (that is, women who have a lot more to offer a relationship, other than their looks), then I will accept his testament as the truth, rather than reading something into his statements that are just not there.


Not to leave you hanging, but sure; I pursue women of substance. (I didn't mean
to infer that I didn't).

I'll share. Substance to me as a balance of mind, body and soul: A combination of tacit intelligence, enticing physical and a heart sweet as pie.

And like many men, I've been through a developmental stage in life where I made the mistake of seeking out sistas strictly based on how good the sight of her in tight pants/jeans fit her thighs and ass; I was totally helpless to it.

Fortunately, I evolved pass the two dimensional to a point where I find the most
assurance in non-tangible, real qualities like personality; I've come to realize that a
women's beauty is projected from her inside out coming together in everything
that she is. This didn't happen biologically; I had to figure this out on my own.
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
I know women like this..... they are not Bimbo's, shallow, lower class etc.... and this is the confusion I think he refers to.... how can some women make such bad choices in a partner?


Sister Virtue, brother Detroit never used the word some to describe his perception of Black women. As far as brother Detroit is concerned, Black women make poor choices in men in general because we're all suffering from what he described as "cognitive dissonance." But the truth is, women from all racial categories make "bad" choices in men, and men do the same. If they didn't, they wouldn't be in here complaining about the unsuccessful choices they've made.

The reason why I'm so disturbed by the ideas being presented in this thread is because I take strong offense to this general perception of women as being these emotionally-unstable, dim-witted, and niave women who require "special guidance." Not surprisingly, this seems to be the chauvinistic perception of women that most men here have adopted, even though they make the very same poor choices. Ironically, when women are going the process of determining what's important in a relationship, we're judged for making "bad choices." When men go through the very same process, they're given a free pass for just "sorting their wild oats." Going around chasing ass is understood to be just apart of "being a man."

And like many men, I've been through a developmental stage in life where I made the mistake of seeking out sistas strictly based on how good the sight of her in tight pants/jeans fit her thighs and ass; I was totally helpless to it.-Detroit
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