Christian Bigotry

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Originally posted by ShayaButHer:

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Originally posted by HonestBrother:

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Originally posted by ShayaButHer:
Again, assumptions...

Assumptions?

About what?

HonestBrother,

You stated:

"For all of you who don't seem to get the point."

You are assuming that people don't UnderStand.

Again, that is a fallacy. Just because SomeOne may not agree with you, does not mean that they don't "get" what you are saying.

"Wisdom Is A Woman!"

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Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Well ... what don't you agree about?

If you're saying that you don't agree that I have a right to be offended by someone getting in my face talking about heaven and hell ... and that I have a right to consider that person intolerant ... then I'd say you don't get my point ... even though you might understand it.

Semantics.

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Originally posted by ShayaButHer:

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Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Well ... what don't you agree about?

If you're saying that you don't agree that I have a right to be offended by someone getting in my face talking about heaven and hell ... and that I have a right to consider that person intolerant ... then I'd say you don't get my point ... even though you might understand it.

Semantics.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying if SomeOne doesn't not believe as you believe or agree with what you choose to believe, that does not render them to be "not getting it"...they just believe differently than you do.

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Originally posted by HeruStar:
Ha!!

The nerve...

I'm still waiting on a response as to how Christians are Bigots... been waiting for 12 pages now.

GMAFB

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What is bigotry in general, and how is Christian bigotry bigotry? A bigot is someone who derives a sense of superiority from believing that he is a member of some elite group that is superior to other groups.

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Originally posted by HeruStar:

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What is bigotry in general, and how is Christian bigotry bigotry? A bigot is someone who derives a sense of superiority from believing that he is a member of some elite group that is superior to other groups.

Christianity is a religion of humility and servitude. This is portrayed by the very nature of Christ himself. He washed the feet of his disciples. He, by example, as the Head, showed what the body ought to follow. Some elite group? I would fault Christians more for playing the "underdog" role, than somehow believing that they are apart of an elite group. Do you know how many POOR Christians there are? Do you know how many Christians use their FAITH just to keep their head above the water?

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Meanwhile, I think you and some of the posters here are just as demented as this article. Especially you Fine because you just blindly follow dementia without anything to say or show for it.

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You can't have it both ways

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However, I also believe that you're determined to keep your head buried in the sand.

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Originally posted by HeruStar:

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However, I also believe that you're determined to keep your head buried in the sand.

And we're the elitist?

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Originally posted by HeruStar:
I was tempted to just repost the same response here

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Originally posted by HeruStar:
If they are to be demonized...
uhm Yeah.

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Originally posted by Oshun Auset:

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Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
I saw these this weekend and thought about this tread...





I also liked these, maybe if I wore them folks would leave me alone...

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Originally posted by HeruStar: Meanwhile, I think you and some of the posters here are just as demented as this article. Especially you Fine because you just blindly follow dementia without anything to say or show for it.

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Originally posted by HonestBrother: However, I also believe that you're determined to keep your head buried in the sand.

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Originally posted by Black Viking:

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Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
I saw these this weekend and thought about this tread...





I also liked these, maybe if I wore them folks would leave me alone...

I love it!!!

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Originally posted by HeruStar:
yup I just stumbled into yet another anti-Christian rally. Typical. Similar to a KKK rally in that it's ignorant, and everyone is hiding behind masks/random internet images.

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What can we learn from this?

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STFU when close-minded anti-Christians are talking.

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Originally posted by HeruStar:
yup I just stumbled into yet another anti-Christian rally. Typical. Similar to a KKK rally in that it's ignorant, and everyone is hiding behind masks/random internet images.

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Originally posted by ShayaButHer:
Wow...

This is really sad...for people who hate ChristianIty so much, you all sure do talk about it a lot.

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How does that convince AnyOne that your particular view is appropriate, or at the very least "better" for them to consider?

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Originally posted by Black Viking:

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Originally posted by ShayaButHer:
Wow...

This is really sad...for people who hate ChristianIty so much, you all sure do talk about it a lot.

I won't speak for anyone else... but I don't hate Christianity, nor do I hate Christians simply because they're Christian.

Almost everyone I know (and have ever known) is a Christian. That includes friends and family that I love would take bullets for.

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How does that convince AnyOne that your particular view is appropriate, or at the very least "better" for them to consider?

What makes HB's, OA's, and my points of view more "appropriate" is that they are intellectually honest.

My only point in this entire thread was that "Christian" and "bigot" were not mutally exclusive terms. No one said or implied that they were synonomis, but they sure as hell aren't contradictory as HeruStar is attempting to claim. Considering how many self-proclaimed "Christian" organizations are out there that are forward, active, and unappologetic in their bigotry (hence HB's KKK reference), it takes an incredible amount of intellectual dishonesty to pretend as if Christian bigots were so few in number as to be irrelevant and unworthy of discussion.

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The following article is about an evil common among Christians. It is not an indictment of Christianity in general, nor is it meant to describe all Christians. It merely decries the fact that the Christianity professed by many people often leads people into bigotry. There are many Christians who are not bigots. For them, this article is but a warning. For others, it is a cry against the bigotry they practice toward non-Christians. The purpose of this article is to make people more aware of the bigotry within Christianity, not to advocate bigotry toward Christians.

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In closing, I want to say that non-Christians should not practice any bigotry toward Christians. There are many fine Christians who are not religious bigots, and it is important to remember that we can be just as fallible as Christians. Many Christians are good people, and no one is a bad person just for being a Christian. Being a Unitarian Universalist, or a member of any other religion, doesn't automatically make you morally superior to anyone else. Some Christians are better than some UU's, and some UU's are better than some Christians.

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Originally posted by Black Viking:
What makes HB's, OA's, and my points of view more "appropriate" is that they are intellectually honest.

.....Considering how many self-proclaimed "Christian" organizations are out there that are forward, active, and unappologetic in their bigotry (hence HB's KKK reference), it takes an incredible amount of intellectual dishonesty to pretend as if Christian bigots were so few in number as to be irrelevant and unworthy of discussion.

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Originally posted by HonestBrother:
...I was merely trying to point out the irony that the KKK claims to be Christian.

In fact if you read the VERY FIRST paragraph in the article, it said....

If you wish to critique the article ... fine ... but please critique what it actually says.

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As for myself, I don't hate all Christians.

....But I live in a world surrounded by Christians. It's not as if I'm talking about people on the moon ... and have no idea whatsoever.

;;;
If we talk about it a lot, that might be because we deal with a LOT of Christians.

And I'm having a very difficult time believing that some of you can pretend it is possible to live in this society without dealing with a LOT of Christians.

The only thing I'd like from those on the other side of this discussion is a simple acknowledgement that some of their brethren can be quite intolerant.

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Originally posted by HeruStar:
When I'm at church this Sunday maybe I should go around asking members if they are bigots...

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I probably encounter alot more Christians than anyone here, and I've yet to see this bigotry.

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When I find avenues to squeeze a little bit of ancient Egyptian knowledge into the conversation with Christians, I've yet to be met with hostility, intolerance, or obstinance.

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Originally posted by ShayaButHer:

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Originally posted by HonestBrother:
...I was merely trying to point out the irony that the KKK claims to be Christian.

In fact if you read the VERY FIRST paragraph in the article, it said....

If you wish to critique the article ... fine ... but please critique what it actually says.

I read the article and I've written articles. Most time when someone starts in with the "not all are like this, but" mantra, you know that their chief complaint is going to be with that particular subject no matter if "all are not like this." In addition, when they end articles by stating, "Notice I said that not all are like this; some are actually good," they are usually trying to cover their behinds and make themselves look good and tolerant in the process.

But I'm sorry, if you are writing about bigotry, wherever it comes from, you are writing about the fact that you have a "problem" with someone for a various "reason" or "reasons"...

My issue with that: If you can take the time to write about something negative, why not take that same time and energy to write up a solution? I believe that is the chief issue that some Christians who've responded here have. There's good and bad in everything, and Christianity is no exception. If you attempt to focus on the negative of Christianity with no viable solutions, it is only obvious that some Christians will be offended.

THEN, if you attempt to "explain" why you think Christianity is "bad for us," or why you believe it is Euro-centered, of course some are going to be offended and yes, even ticked off because if they know who they are and what they believe, you are in essence telling them that they don't know what they are talking about; you are telling them that they have their head "in the sand"; you are telling them that they are ignorant...and again, that is a fatal and arrogant assumption.

None of us was there when the world was created. All we have to go on is what His-Story tells us and what our souls guide us to. So in essence, everyone in this forum could be wrong and everyone in this forum could be right...we won't know until the "end of days" or the end of our days on Earth.

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As for myself, I don't hate all Christians.

....But I live in a world surrounded by Christians. It's not as if I'm talking about people on the moon ... and have no idea whatsoever.

;;;
If we talk about it a lot, that might be because we deal with a LOT of Christians.

And I'm having a very difficult time believing that some of you can pretend it is possible to live in this society without dealing with a LOT of Christians.

The only thing I'd like from those on the other side of this discussion is a simple acknowledgement that some of their brethren can be quite intolerant.

I appreciate the fact that you do not strive to hate; that you strive to respect all. HowEver, I would ask that you be open to the fact that some of us Christians know what we are talking about, too. As you stated, "It's not as if I'm talking about people on the moon ... and have no idea whatsoever."

In addition, I'd like you to consider that there are no "sides" in this discussion. Again, all too often, people come to the table looking for one thing to be right, when we all squeezed into the table pretty good. There is more than one viewpoint to be honored and ReSpected.

...and again, I remember being very open about my own experience with intolerant individuals who called themselves Christian. Very few people who call ThemSelves Christian, actually are.

"Wisdom Is Always An UnderStanding Woman!"

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How would you know how many Christians I encounter?

You can know that just as little as you can know what 2 billion people are thinking.

Keep looking.

That's why I put bold letters. It was just an inference since I don't know any anti-Christians personally and everyone I know claims some form of Christianity. So the answer was relative. It involves my personal circle... you and I know that, but your just being argumentative so... honestly WGAF!

[QUOTE]Why don't you do that?

Ask them POINT BLANK what they think of Buddhists, Muslims, and the indigenous religions of the world. Ask them POINT BLANK what they think about people who do NOT believe in Jesus.

That's what you would do if you were intellectually honest.

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Originally posted by Kocolicious:
Why is it so IMPORTANT to be LABELED any thing? The focus should be how those treat each other as HUMAN BEINGS. As almost everyone Black here on this board has been exposed to Christianity one time or another....but the importance here is to seek peace with one self and with others. Christianity is NO guarantee for ANYTHING. No one has came back to tell us ANYTHING about ANY so-called religion including CHRISTIANITY. And really it's whateva rocks your boat. It is HISTORY that religion has been used to ENSLAVE, KILL, CONTROL, PLUNDERED...all which CAN BE PROVEN! I have yet to see anyone [including Jesus] come BACK FROM THE DEAD to prove that one [so-called] religion or other [so-called] religions exist after death with a paradise in the sky salvation. If so, the proof would be repeated over and over. And no one would HAVE to take someone else's WORD for it. It would be as CLEAR and NORMAL as the SUN that comes up every SINGLE morning. There's no doubt in that cuz everyone can see it shining BRIGHT for themselves....right? Religion is a PERSONAL thang...personal CHOICE...and is something that shouldn't be SHOVED down the throat of the nonbeliver. Cuz it's PROOF [within itself that] we are all HERE [on this Earth living and breathing] whether we believe or not. I'm just sayin'

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Originally posted by ShayaButHer:
LOL....okay.

"Wisdom Is A Woman Who Moves On!"

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No it is not important to be labeled anything. Labels----------especially religious labels, create division.
Respect is a IMPORTANT behavior trait for self and well as for others. Exposure to Xtianity-----certainly who hasn't been? PEACE is at the base of the body temple. The most important temple is not church but the body temple. Nourishment and maintenance of the body temple is individual, personal and confidential.

When one nourishes and maintains one own body temple the ugly little faces of Xtian bigotry have no room to surface, such as:

a. Holier-than-thou toward non-xtians
b. I'm right you're wrong cause I'm Xtian you're not
c. I know God because I know God better than you
d. You must go thru Jesus Christ to get to GOD

q

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Intellectual dishonesty is the deceitful advocacy of a position known to be false. Rhetoric is used to advance an agenda or to reinforce one's deeply held beliefs in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence. If a person is aware of the evidence and agrees with the conclusion it portends, yet advocates a contradictory view, they commit intellectual dishonesty. If the person is unaware of the evidence, their position is ignorance, even if in agreement with the scientific conclusion.

The terms intellectually dishonest and intellectual dishonesty are often used as rhetorical devices in a debate; the label invariably frames an opponent in a negative light. It is an obfuscatory way to say "you're lying" or "you're stupid", and has a cooling effect on conversations similar to accusations of ignorance.

The phrase is also frequently used by orators when a debate foe or audient reaches a conclusion varying from the speaker's on a given subject. This appears mostly in debates or discussions of speculative, non-scientific issues, such as morality or policy.

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Introduction: The concept of intellectual honesty is often rather narrowly defined in an academic setting, where its usual purpose is to combat unethical behaviors such as plagiarism or cheating on exams. Here I shall offer a broader notion of intellectual honesty, as I feel that the narrow definition does not provide a sufficiently high ideal. While it is clearly expected that each student shall exhibit honesty in taking exams and in representing the authorship of his/her work, there are other dimensions to intellectual honesty that impinge on every aspect of thinking and communicating. Here is a terse but broad definition, which will require extensive elaboration:


A Broad Definition of Intellectual Honesty:

Honesty in the acquisition, analysis, and transmission of ideas.

Discussion: Clearly this definition prohibits cheating on exams, which would violate honesty in the acquisition of ideas (inappropriately copying the ideas of another person). It also prohibits plagiarism, which would violate honesty in the transmission of ideas (misrepresenting the authorship of a body of work by presenting someone else's work as your own).

Broader Implications: One can take the notion of intellectual honesty much further, and it is my sincere hope that each of you will strive to do so, not only in this class but in every station of life. By far the most subtle of the words in the above definition is analysis, and it is the one that is most difficult to mandate or to verify externally; it is therefore the one that rests most heavily upon honesty.

It is incumbent upon each of us to avoid or mitigate fallacious reasoning, whether in the narrow confines of an academic or professional discipline, or the amorphous and uncertain circumstances of daily life. The exercise of sound reasoning, to the extent of our individual abilities, is a large part of the analysis aspect of intellectual honesty.

This may seem odd at first. After all, isn't reason simply the application of logic to objective facts? What possible bearing might honesty have outside of acquisition and transmission, as discussed above? To see the connection one must realize that we, as human beings, are more than mere purveyors of logic. We inherently generalize, categorize, prioritize, and harmonize what we see, and most of this takes place without our conscious awareness. While these aspects of thinking are of inestimable value, they also possess certain dangers; for example, they can inadvertently lead us into hasty judgments, and cause selective "blindness" toward new information. (The latter tendency is known as confirmation bias by psychologists.) Intellectual honesty is one mechanism that can mitigate such judgments, or prejudices, by forcing us to examine how we arrived at them, and cajoling us to seek and consider alternatives.

Perhaps the two most universal informal fallacies in thinking are generalizing from incomplete information and overlooking alternative explanations. (See A Rulebook for Arguments, by Anthony Weston, for an excellent discussion of these two "great fallacies.") Once we become aware of these pitfalls in thinking, it then becomes a matter of choice as to whether we attempt to compensate for them. Knowing the potentials for error, attempting to overcome them is thus a matter of honesty.

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Originally posted by Fine:
What may I ask does your most recent comment have to do with getting to the root of Christian Bigotry?

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Originally posted by ShayaButHer:
LOL....okay.

"Wisdom Is A Woman Who Moves On!"