Skip to main content

In reading much of the opposition to the war in Iraq, I'm reminded of Jack Nicholson's famous line in the movie "A Few Good Men."

With the war now winding down and the Iraqi people free of Saddam's cruelty, still there are anti-war protests, anti-Bush rhetoric, America is wrong rhetoric, in plentiful supply both here and around the world.

Still the belief is perpetuated that America wants only to exploit the Iraqi oil and other big business interests. The Dems are bringing back the ghost of Halliburton in a vain attempt to bring down the Bush Presidency.

For myself, this war was about two things; Preventing Saddam from obtaining nukes and wmd's to pass on to terrorists, and freedom for the Iraqi people from two decades of the most ruthless, brutal, despotic regime in history.

But from reading many posts here and other forums, you would think it was President Bush who's running a despotic regime. Many of you are sounding a lot like that Iraqi Minister of Information, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf. This guy would speak on Iraqi tv about how coalition forces were being slaughtered by the Republican Guard, how no coalition forces were in Baghdad, meanwhile, Marines and Baghdad citizens are tearing down Saddam's statue and dragging the head thru the streets.

Well, while we wait for the full documented case of wmd's and Al Qaeda connection to come around, here's more info you can ignor or attempt to discredit about why we had to liberate Iraq.....

Freedom's Bell & Iraq's Smoking Guns
Naysayers have nowhere to run and nowhere to hide


"Do not believe Bankins. Listen only to me!"

Bankins

[This message was edited by B Bankins on April 13, 2003 at 05:11 AM.]
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

America was "sold" on this war based upon two points.

1) Iraq was an imminent threat to the United States.

2) Iraq was responsible for 9/11.

If the administration could have developed strong arguments about these points the entire world community, much less all of America, would have been enthusiastically behind them. They couldn't, so we find ourselves in the political predicament that we are in today.

With weak arguments, and the appearance of all sorts of connections to Big Oil, how could you expect Americans to not be skeptical? Should we all just accept on faith what Bush is telling us? Did you do that for Clinton?

Yesterday it was reported that the only Iraqi government office that was protected from looting was the office governing the oil trade. Is that a mere coincidence?

Also, if this was really about liberating the Iraqi people, why them? Why didn't we liberate the South African people when they were struggling under apartheid? Why don't we liberate the people in the Congo and Sudan? Why is it seemingly more important that Democracy and freedom find themselves in some parts of the world and not others?



Now is the time to make real the promises of Democracy.
In all fairness, I read the entire article linked in this post ... although I found myself laughing through the bulk of it! If the author were to butter Bush down anymore, he's be able to slide him through a Cheerio!! Eek

However, after re-reading it for the evidence that "The evidence of Saddam's maniacal plans becomes clearer by the hour..." what I notice was that there were still a couple of important if's and but's in that evidence:

Weapons-grade plutonium.... "If it is confirmed that weapons-grade plutonium exists..."

Biological weapons.... "Rick Leventhal, downloaded incredible video of what may be the first of Saddam's bioweapons labs on wheels."


Seems to me these were questions that were asked, and, it seems, are still unanswered, since before the first shot was fired. The best way to quiet a naysayer is with uncompromised proof! I will wait until I get it.

As far as the other evidence, while it definitely does confirm the existance of a connection between Sadaam and terrorist activity, I'm not sure I've every heard anybody emphatically declare that there wasn't any. And it mystifies me how the flag-waving, pro-war enthusists always have to try to prove their points with such absolutes!! Nobody doubted Sadaam was a bad man ... some of us just asked the Prez to prove it!! And of something so obvious, it should not have been so burdenous.

Terrorists reside in every corner of this earth. Their network and connections are enough to rival Ma Bell. A "paperwork trail" linking Iraq to terrorism is a great find! But truly pales in comparison to a money trail or a training trail or a breeding trail or a harboring trail or any kind of direct evidence that Sadaam masterminded and produced any acts of terror against us.

I wonder what would happen if we invaded Saudi Arabia in the same manner we invaded Iraq, what "evidence" of terror-aiding and links to al-Qaeda we would find there? At least Bush could start with a leg-up on the proof department ... most of the hijackers were Saudi nationals!! Eek

Can I handle the truth? Yeah. The question is, can I get a little bit of it?? Roll Eyes
Glad to see B Bankins hasn't left. I thought I read a post where you said you weren't coming back. Like somebody said, your POV is needed here.

Even though I disagree with it!! Razz

This war, to me, was supposed to be about the threat Iraq posed to the United States. No other consideration mattered. There are lots of people suffering under despotism, and the US does not and never should fight a war to liberate a people. We have historically been allies with repressive regimes -- including Saudi -- and even though few can match Saddam's brutality, there are many who are brutal beyond the tolerance level of decent people. But we've left them alone, and we'll continue to do so.

So the ONLY justification for this war was the idea that Iraq was a threat to the US.

Saddam. The most monitored country in the world.

The guy who couldn't fly his planes over 2/3 of his own country.

The guy who's so hated that even most Islamic extremists hate him.

The linkages were paper thin, and that's why I didn't believe that Bush was telling us right. There was a time when I was on the fence about the war, but Bush's information started sounding more and more false, and that's why I'm opposed to the war.

Let's find 1) chemical weapons and 2) evidence that they were planning on being used against us in the very near future. Then I'll change my mind.

I'm happy for those who are happy to be free, and I'm proud to see how easily we swept through the country (as if there was ever any logical doubt). But our troops are not the world's policemen, and they shouldn't be used in wars with little justification.

And I don't believe it's about corporate access to oil, mainly because there are easier ways to get it. We could have normalized relations with Iraq like we did when he was at war with Iran. We could have given the $$$ used for the war to the same companies as corporate welfare. We didn't need to invade Iraq to get the oil. But whatever the real reasons for the war, the stated reasons are insufficiant for me to support it.
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:

And I don't believe it's about corporate access to oil, mainly because there are easier ways to get it. . . . We didn't need to invade Iraq to get the oil.


It's not so much access to the oil as much as it is the profits from that oil. Iraq had been doing business with oil companies tied to guess what countries? France, Germany, and Russia. Now our boys get in there and all is well with the world again! Roll Eyes



Now is the time to make real the promises of Democracy.
WHAT TRUTH? CNN/FoxNews pro-corrupt Politicians, pro-Bush Moron, NEVER REPORT THE TRUTH as a result most of the American Public like you are being fooled. That is why too many Americans don't know the whole world hates.. And MBM I'm with you, A MORE JUST WAR would have been against Saudi Arabia. THEY fund terrorists, bin Laden is a Saudi, 15 of the 9/11 assholes were Saudis, they have over 100 American kids being held hostage. I would have supported that War. But, it will never happen because the U.S has already access to their oil, Bush is in business with the Saudis and the Prince is his pal.. Bush propaganda is working well in USA, but Sorry, Iraq isn't the answer to terrorism, if you believe it B Bankins YOU ARE so NAIVE! Remember the 9/11 assholes used box cutters to get the job done they didn't need weapons of mass destruction. It is time to re-evaluate some things!!



"THE BIGGER THE LIE THE MORE WILLING PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE IT," -ADOLF HITLER-

"..hiding from Reality in your world of HYPOCRISY"
Bob Marley-
I don't have Lea's tactful abilities, but I'll give it a shot.....

Mr. MBM

"..With weak arguments, and the appearance of all sorts of connections to Big Oil, how could you expect Americans to not be skeptical? Should we all just accept on faith what Bush is telling us? Did you do that for Clinton?.."

This is a "interesting" response. With regard to Clinton, he has this one little minor problem of not telling the truth about anything. I don't believe I need to rehash all the underhanded schemes this man has participated in, some of which has lead to his impeachment in the House.

By contrast, President Bush has yet to even tell a white lie. Agree or disagree with his policies, the majority of Americans find him trustworthy. I don't see Bush being booed the way Clinton recently was.

As for weak arguments, what weak arguments? Bush has been right about Iraq since day one, and the salman Pak revelations nails the Al-Qaeda connection quite nicely.

And yes, there is a oil connection. It's with France and Russia who hold lucrative contracts with this brutal regime. Last year, the USA imported about 2% of total OPEC oil from Iraq. The majority of our oil comes from Saudi Arabia and Venesuela. Don't take my word for it, check it out yourselves.

As for why Iraq and not others, after decisive victories in Afghanistan and now Iraq, it is clear this country means business when it comes to eradicating terrorists strongholds. Looks like Syria or Iran may be next. Now North Korea al of a sudden wants multilateral talks.

Many of you have this grand Utopian view of the world that's not based in reality. You condemn the very country that grants you the right of dissent, something Iraqis do not have. To allow Saddam to harbor, train, and arm terrorists who want us dead is not an option in my opinion. I do not want another 9/11 to occur, only to have all of you say "Bush knew about this and did nothing."

Don't worry, I'll get to the rest of you....


"Do not believe Bankins. Listen only to me!"
Keep your blinders on to the world Bankins, totally unaware of anything that's going on. Just care about your budweiser and your boring national pasttime. Keep the V-Chip in your head. This is you..and a great example of how the U.S can go bad in a matter of years.

[This message was edited by Lipati on April 13, 2003 at 09:04 PM.]
Please, we have yet to find and confirm a TRACE of chemical or biological weapons in Eye-Rack, despite President Bush scaremongering tactics about the supposed 25,000 liters of anthrax, 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin and 500 tons of sarin, mustard and nerve gas. Where are they?.

As for your contention that Bush hasn't said a "white lie", you gotta be joking, right? What about how Saddam was supposed to be six months away from building a nucear bomb? What about the forged nuclear documents from Niger? What about the phony aluminum tubes? And how about that RIDICULOUS claim in his SOTU address about Saddam being in cahoots with Al Qaeda?

I'm sorry to break it to ya, but your emperor has no clothes.
So much to comment on...So little time....

Negrospiritual; "Can you handle divergent opinion?"

As the only black Conservative (and a Reagan Conservative at that) currently on this site, that question is easily answered. Divergent opinions are fine, its losing philosophies I have a problem with.

It is traditional American ideals based on freedom and liberty for all that sets us apart from lesser countries. The notion that we should adopt the ways of "old Europe" will only bring this country down. It is they who should emulate us!!

EbonyRose; "In all fairness, I read the entire article linked in this post ... although I found myself laughing through the bulk of it! If the author were to butter Bush down anymore, he's be able to slide him through a Cheerio!!"

Talk about laughing, its amazing how someone can ignor the obvious. Yes, raise the bar when it comes to a Republican president and demand video tape of Saddam and bin Laden swapping spit, while at the same time forgetting it was Clinton who coined the phrase "regime change", in 1998.

Do you really think had Al Gore been elected this war would not take place?? Read Junebugs post on what Clinton said in 1998!!

As for the author of my link,
Mansoor Ijaz , if you read his bio, you will see one impressive resume from this young man who served the Clinton Administration at some point.

Vox; "The linkages were paper thin, and that's why I didn't believe that Bush was telling us right. There was a time when I was on the fence about the war, but Bush's information started sounding more and more false, and that's why I'm opposed to the war."

Of all the posters on this forum, this is shocking comming from you at this stage of the game. With all the info right at your fingertips, the revelations of Eason Jordan published in the New York Times.....

Whatever happened to your famous objectivity?? Fine if your are against this war, but I think your disdain for Bush is coloring your judgement. My friend, I would ask you to perhaps look at what is unfolding before your eyes in Iraq, and please tell me what else was Bush to do? This time, I suggest you set your biases aside. A friendly suggestion, of course.

As for the Arab extremist that hate him, you know full well they hate the USA more, and fear the spread of Democracy even more.

Easy; "I'm sorry to break it to ya, but your emperor has no clothes."

Actually Ease, my emperor can keep his clothes on while in the White House, unlike a certain impeached ex-pres who bombed Iraq and the Sudan without UN approval and said all the things in 1998 Bush is saying now.

Now I hate to pour "sugar" in your engine, but there really is a connection to Iraq and Al Qaeda!





"Do not believe Bankins. Listen only to me!"
According to Bush Junior, the US should be able to find evidence of Chemical, Biological, and Radioactive weapons of Mass Destruction. I'm still waiting for that report. If Iraq is shown not to have those weapons, I guess the only fair thing to do is for the US to re-install Saddam and then the US should be on trial for war crimes...if this were a 'fair' world

In order to improve the mind, we ought less to learn, than to contemplate.
-Rene Descartes
Okay B Bankins .. just one more question!! Big Grin

How many civilians (especially women and children) did Clinton's bombing of Iraq hurt/maime/kill? Roll Eyes

Okay ... two questions?

And how many has Bush's caused? (Oh, I forgot ... our government is unable to give an adequate count as this time!) Eek Eek So, does that mean that people like you who are in favor of this war believe that there haven't been any such casualties??

Oops! That's three, isn't it? Razz I never was any good at math!! Smile
Y'all Negroes Forget Slavery,
But Always Remember the Holocaust
The Essence of the Black Conservative

B.Bankins, if you were Jewish and your cousins, brothers, nephews, aunts and the like had been victims of the Nazi Holocaust or under a Stalinist regime, were sent to die in a Russian Gulag - would you ever trust these governments in the same way you trust the Bush Republicans? Do you believe that maybe enduring distrust of these anti-Semite governments may have had something to do with or at least played a role in Zionist ideology and the eventual creation of Israel? Similarly, can a nation or government that brutally enslaved and murdered my black cousins, brothers, nephews, aunts and the like ever be trusted again? The creation of Israel certainly answers the question of whom or what government Jews trust, - but what about African Americans? And when like Israel America did create a land for blacks it was a political attempt to rid America of its "troublesome Negroes." Moreover, this so-called black homeland America created and named Liberia never enjoyed the economic and political support Israel enjoys today! Yet irrespective of 200 plus years of horrible slavery, hate and bigotry black people are expected to just trust American government but the Jews are not expected to trust the likes of German, Polish or Russian governments? In fact, these European governments are anti-Semite and proud of it, just as America is proud of the legacy of its Stars and Bars!


"Bankins cannot be here tonight to tell you lies, so I take his place!"

quote:
posted by EbonyRose...
How many civilians (especially women and children) did Clinton's bombing of Iraq hurt/maime/kill?


Hey EbonyRose, you try to take my job from me?

"You are right, EbonyRose. You make good Iraqi spokesperson. Let's ignor the thousands of Iraqi people we kill for cheering Coalition Forces, force to take suicide drives into Coalition checkpoints, fleeing the country, used as human shields, and refusing to fight alongside Iraqi soldiers. We even arm young children to fight the Infidels, and jail the children who refuse!!"

"Let's forget about two decades of millions of Iraqis slaughtered like cattle on a daily basis, and focus on the unfortunate Iraqis killed by Coalition Forces."

"Of course, Clinton never kill innocents with bombs (except that Sudanese pill factory) because the bombs he used are Democrat bombs. Only Republican bombs kill innocents."


"EbonyRose, you really told off Bankins with your last post! You know more about today's politics from watching B.E.T. than Bankins ever will."



"Do not believe Bankins. Listen only to me!"

[This message was edited by B Bankins on April 16, 2003 at 06:38 AM.]

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×