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quote:
Originally posted by JanesT:

Do you recognize that there is a black conservative agenda? Yes or No? Or do you think black conservatives have no goals or agenda politically, and have no reasons for choosing to do what they are doing, and they are just out to 'purposely' waste their time and energy? Yes or No?


brosmile

I believe that there can be a black conservative agenda. (At least I am hopeful that there can be one.) I just have yet to see one articulated.

To be clear, you wrote about some issues that you feel are relevant to the black community (e.g. education, taxes, the family, etc.) but for the most part neglected to offer the black conservative solutions for those problems. What are the black conservative answers to those questions? For example, you talked about the NEA and performance of the public schools, but offered no solutions. What is the black conservative soltuion? NCLB? You talked about crime but only responded with "judicial and community reform". I provided an example of such, which I'm sure is inconsistent with a black conservative agenda. What, therefore, is the black conservative soltuion to crime? What are the black conservative "judicial and community" reforms that are better than liberal "judicial and community" reforms - in your view?

Etc.
Well well well, lookey here. Finally we've got a specific answer, albeit weak, to a specific question.

Q:Can there be a Black Conservative Agenda?

A:I believe that there can be a black conservative agenda.


Halleluia! The topic has been fulfilled.

Now thats progress, and what conversations are supposed to consist of. Its no crime to seek answers to questions.

When you read the agenda items I've listed, I'm sure you can see there is not a whole lot of difference between what both sides say they wish to accomplish and why they feel as they do.

And of course this is so, its not like black conservatives come from mars or anything, they come from the very same places as anyone else does, and see the same issues and problems as anyone else does.

My my, I finally got someone to offer an answer, in this case an answer to their OWN question on africanamerican. org. Thats practically a first. I'm so excited, I'm gonna have another cup of coffee.

Solutions? Pick up any major newspaper to see what each side offers as solutions. Its the stuff that both sides fight about daily. I'm sure you are aware of at least some of the issues the two parties debate and scrap about.

'Meisha, toss me one those fake creamers.....'
JanesT - your circular answers are empty and frustrating. Let me clarify again what I'm getting at.

People are people. We all want the same things: good schools, good jobs, lower crime, strong families, peace on earth, etc., etc. Liberals and conservatives, however, typically have opposing ways at attempting to achieve those objectives.

There have been a number of conservatives here who have done nothing but espouse the straight conservative line on issues. I am interested in discovering if there are specific black conservative solutions to our problems. You've done nothing to shed any light on this question.
Yeah sure mbm, black conservatives couldn't possibly have or believe in any solutions. Why don't you start another topic entitled:

'Can there be Black Conservative Solutions'

And its you talkin about 'circular'......

Rest assured there is as much fustration out there at the emptiness of your views as you claim for yourself. I think the real issue here is where is your respect for diverse and other views, even when coming from black conservatives, which in your world didn't exist until about an hour ago. But no lecture on tolerance right now.

If you claim that "People are people", then you already know that NOONE has a monopoly on views, ideas or agendas, not even black liberals. If you now seek to discredit the Black Conservative solutions to issues, understand that this is EXACTLY what Black Conservatives are doing as well. Nothing sinister, nothing evil or scary, just honest disagreement and debate.

Do you see the utter bigotry in not accepting the very existence of Black conservative views or values? Or is that some tactical front that you use, which is what I myself have noticed about the Black liberal side. In other words, if Black Conservatives can't possibly exist, then they couldn't possibly be right about anything. Is that about it?

You may disagree with black conservatives, just as they disagree with you. That doesn't mean you are right, better, or more deserving of anything. And it especially doesn't make anyone more BLACK, which is the common stereotyped idealism that runs thru many heads on your side of the ballgame. That alone does damage to information and decision making.

If, as you say, 'People are People', then I'm sure 'Black people are Black people', and all people deserve the right to be heard, and the right to be respected as such. (strange I'm having to tell this to a liberal, I thought they were the ones always saying these type of things)

Now, you say you recognize the Black Conservative Agenda. Are you saying you cannot find what they say, what they do, or what they believe in ANYWHERE?

I find that a little hard to believe mbm, but if as you say black conservatives frequent your site, although I couldn't possibly imagine WHY with all the hostility towards them here, then you are bound to get the black conservative view of things sooner or later. If you were truly interested, would you treat them so?

Perhaps when you believed they didn't exist at all, you were obliged not to hear them at all. See if being more tolerant and understanding helps provide you more insight. Of course, if you do not actually want to understand or hear the other side, then things will go on pretty much as they are I would guess.

Nothing illogical or strange about any of this, is there?


Hang tight, all things in their time.
So called "Black Conservatives" have no agenda, they are only parroting racist, bigoted, classist, white right-wing facists in exchange for the occasional pat on the head and/or ego stroke from people who could really care less for them as well at the people caught in the crossfire of this neo-hate politics.

Also, since what "conservative" means now as apposed to what it used to mean are two different things.

First the question should be exactly what is a "conservative," what does "conservative" mean now? ---and there lies the answer to the question, 'can there be a Black conservative agenda.'
Theoritically the conservatives have the correct agenda if you subtract out race...

They believe (philosophically) in self-determinism....

We believe in self-determinism..

They believe in free market competition

We believe (most of us, in principle) believe in free market competition

Most blacks are morally conservative...most blacks are anti-abortion, most blacks are anti-homosexual special rights...

The differentiating factor is that we believe in general that the conservatives fail to account for the systematic discrimination and racism that has positioned blacks to be the 3rd class citizen in the united states...and that the conservatives have no desire to correct that...

That is why I am not a "conservative"
Well mbm, what can I tell ya. You are claiming as a defense or 'answer' ignorance towards one entire side of the political and social spectrum if you say you cannot find or comprehend the Black conservative agenda anywhere. I'd rather speak with folks who KNOW both sides already, else how is there opportunity for meaningful debate.

Whats funny is that Black conservatives believe exactly as you do in a sense, that the 'other side' has no answers, or at least good ones that have proved successful enough. But they do not feign ignorance that the other views very existence. Thats psychological I'm afraid.

OK, the Black conservative does not exist, you can stick to that story is you wish.

Perhaps it is our personal histories that lead us to different places. I, like a majority of young naive inexperienced people, was once a Black liberal, engaging in the social movements, voicing the shrill and energetic calls for bringing down the house, parroting the usual leftist talking points, etc. So I've lived both sides and know the points of contention for each. I take it not everyone has had that vantage point yet.

When there's folks out here who cancomprehend both sides and wants to discuss one or the other, I'll oblige that person.
quote:
Originally posted by JanesT:

You are claiming as a defense or 'answer' _ignorance_ towards one entire side of the political and social spectrum if you say you cannot find or comprehend the Black conservative agenda anywhere.


Well, you certainly have not been of any help in this effort.


quote:
I'd rather speak with folks who KNOW both sides already, else how is there opportunity for meaningful debate.


I'm not looking for debate. Just perspective and thoughts.

quote:
Whats funny is that Black conservatives believe exactly as you do in a sense, that the 'other side' has no answers, or at least good ones that have proved successful enough. But they do not feign ignorance that the other views very existence. Thats psychological I'm afraid.


You continue to talk a lot of shit, but avoid the question.

quote:
OK, the Black conservative does not exist, you can stick to that story is you wish.


Black conservatives exist. I'm just not aware of a black conservative agenda. Perhaps this is a function of the fact that those blacks who do become conservative do so for less than political reasons, and more to buttress their egos. Now that's "psychological".

quote:
When there's folks out here who _can_comprehend both sides and wants to discuss one or the other, I'll oblige that person.


Stop fronting. You've given all you have in this thread. It is painfully evident that you have nothing more to give sergeant.
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Actually, I was a captain, but thats neither here nor there.

You've already said there is in fact a black agenda. I'm not responsible for telling you where to get your information or which news you should be aware of, if this is so lacking or mysterious for you. I offered about 7 of the agenda items in a previous post, and even you said that it differed little from what it is you claim to espouse that you want from your side.

Your are right, what more is there to really say on this? So why you still asking the same question over and over? Are you ready to offer up YOUR solutions for world peace and black equity or socialism, whatever it was you prefer?

OK, list your 'solutions' for all the black communities ills, so that I may see where I've erred and learn the answers.

For example, as you keep asking others to do, make a list of the Black lib agenda as you see it:

1) first cure for first problem
2) second cure for second problem
3) third cure for .........
4) fourth ......

Lets see how great your 'solutions' are and then we'll either compare them or contrast them, or whatever it is we do on this website in every other topic here. Deal?

Show us how we should think mbm. Give us YOUR solutions. If you fail to do so here and now, or if someone doesn't 'like' your solutions, this means, by your own creed, that there 'can be no black liberal agenda'.

Go on.
JanesT - you obviously cannot discern between an agenda item and a solution to that item. As you know, I have said that the issues are objectively obvious. What I have also said is that there would seem to be both liberal and conservative solutions to those problems. Furthermore, I have attempted to identify more than just conservative solutions, but black conservative solutions. If you were being honest at all about your approach this would be equally evident.

BTW - regarding solutions - here is a take at an approach. I'd love to study yours.
I know what you are doing mbm, its not that I'm not getting what you are doing, I see what you write almost daily.

But see, you have failed to provide here and now the 'black liberal solutions'. Therefore, by YOUR logic, there is NO black liberal agenda or solutions, (at least that was prior to the flip flop on the agenda part). You yourself have made up this 'rule', how can you not apply it now to yourself?

I'd like to hear at least just one 'black liberal solution'. Whats the problem?
So, this entire technique of selective blindness on your part was a FARCE? Thats the only conclusion one can draw. Throwing in the word 'black' is irrelevant, as ALL the black ideas and solutions being offered anywhere are echoed by lib whites as well. So, the premise you perpetrated here was flawed, purposely so I would presume.

Black Conservatives exist. Black Conservatives have views. Black Conservatives offer solutions to problems. Black Conservatives are growing in number. And most of all, Black Conservatives are Black and always will be.

Been fun.
No, reparations is good, or perhaps typical, of the cash grab by black elites. Johnny Cochran's credit card bills would be 'solved' by that. Thats truly the representative 'mindset' of black liberalism.

Of course, I'm not yet sure exactly which 'problem' its supposed to be correcting, or whether it will ever garner enough support to get taken seriously, or how its going to get paid for, and by whom, and to whom, but it is typical of the type of stuff coming out of the black liberal cauldrons.

You win, I doubt there is anything as controversial or wholly untested as reparations on the conservative side which someone would put their name on.

I guess black conservatives will have to put on their thinking caps in order to find such an ingenius 'agenda' item such as 'lets sue for cash' like that.

Brilliant what them black libs can come up with, eh.

Thanks, a little disappointed though, I meant serious solutions to actual issues. I guess you were right, only black libs can come up with 'solutions' like that. I had hoped for something thats actually been passed or has the chance to be, to address a certain and specific issue, but what the heck, reparations is good as anything else I've heard.

So, black conservatism cannot exist and black conservative solutions cannot exist, because 'reparations' is what all 'real' black people think about night and day as the "solution" to .........?

To use a term you are fond of, that was 'hilarious'.
I'm sure this is just a demonstration of the respect and tolerance of the homosexual community that some of you have, and that you didn't really mean to use that representative icon known as 'village people' as the source of your ridicule and defamatory symbolism.

I enjoy watching the left's version of 'tolerance'. Why don't you just come out and call me a 'fudge pusher', then you'd really be honoring and respectful of the gay community.

That being said, I am distantly simular looking to the 'sailor cap' dude.
quote:
Originally posted by JanesT:
I'm sure this is just a demonstration of the respect and tolerance of the homosexual community that some of you have, and that you didn't really mean to use that representative icon known as 'village people' as the source of your ridicule and defamatory symbolism.


You're right, equating the village people with you is an insult to the gay community.

quote:
I enjoy watching the left's version of 'tolerance'. Why don't you just come out and call me a 'fudge pusher', then you'd really be honoring and respectful of the gay community.


Wasn't it Geo. Bush and other right wingers that suggested a constitutional ammendment to "preserve the sanctity of marriage" by defining it as a union between a man and a woman? Doesn't sound very 'tolerant' to me.

quote:
That being said, I am distantly simular looking to the 'sailor cap' dude.


So, that's why in your profile it says you are a woman!!
MBM,

I have to admire your steadfastness...

Apparently the concept of a Black Conservative Agenda or really just a Black Agenda period, outside of the "liberal" quarters is a revolutionary (different) idea.

Funny thing...
In another forum I spoke generally about a Black National Agenda... and someone had to concoct something on the fly and call it a National Black Agenda - and start creating items that perhaps were never before assembled or considered as such.

So, NO... HiREZ,
I'm not buying the "conservatives" have the right agenda except for how they view racism - how they won't do anything about it. But, as we've come to understand you don't have much to say about it in your otherwise "admirable" plans.

I'm just wondering how come you just can't admit you lean way more to the right?

Anyway.... KEEP TRYING MBM!

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