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I smell something... something that smells like.... DAMN you smell like.... *fish*

Bush sending those brothers & sisters (no matter the color) to WAR under false pretenses is, in fact, him signing their death warrants!!

Quit SUCKIN' his DICK CHaney!! Big Grin

If you want to talk your politics... DETAIL YOUR THOUGHTS >> HERE << ... *fishie*

[This message was edited by Nmaginate on November 10, 2003 at 10:31 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by ThaWatcher:
@negro...

this thread isn't "marking the passing of our own" it's using dead soldiers as ammuniton against the war and the president. It's shameful and disrespectful...Iraqi insurgents killed these soldiers, not Bush...





That's NEGROSPIRITUAL to you

Please name one war, in which names and/or images of the slain have not been commemorated?

ALSO
the natural human condition is to abhor war - despite the reality that it is sometimes necessary. Across the centuries thousands of books, films, and speeches have been produced to protest the evils of war. Are historical works featuring anti-war sentiment also shameful and disrespectful?

Or do you find this particular observance of slain soldiers objectionable merely because it is authored by a black person and features black sacrifices?

and oh yeah, please point out what sources you have that our brothers were killed by "iraqi insurgents" and not Al Quaida in its newfound haven, thanks to "Dubya"
"Or do you find this particular observance of slain soldiers objectionable merely because it is authored by a black person and features black sacrifices?"

I find this so-called "observance" objectionable because you're using a US soldier to protest the actions of the US military. I also find it objectionable because your intent is not to commemorate the lives of these people, your intent is bash the president (just look at the title). IMO, you dishonor their memory....
ThaWatcher ... I am really disappointed and saddened that you would even ask this question:

quote:
Originally posted by ThaWatcher:
What's the point of posting pics and stories?...Do you think that these soldiers would want their pics up here singing a sad song? These people are heroes and you're victimizing them!


The point is to honor those heros which is done by telling their stories. The song sung was not nearly as much sad as it was the truth. They all went to Iraq and died. Is that not the truth?

Our Empowerment posted the stories of their lives and their deaths. For you to call that a sad song really makes you incredibly insensitive. And if any dishonor has been presented here, it would have to be that you would call such truths "sad."

You can term it however you want to, but the truth cannot be refuted ... Bush started a war in Iraq and these men died in that war. Is that not true to you? I guess you and others like you would just prefer to see a "casualty list" and not put an actual face with an actual death. The same as when you hear ... "20 were wounded" ... I supposed you prefer to think that "wound" is just something you can put a Band-Aid on, rather than it being a leg or arm blown off, blindness, serious internal injuries or something else horrific in nature?

And then you have to ask why put pictures of Black soldiers up on a Black message board? Seems to me, only person who should have to ask such a question would be someone who isn't Black themselves. Is that what happened here?

BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE.
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
quote:
Originally posted by ThaWatcher:

I find this so-called "observance" objectionable because you're using a US soldier to protest the actions of the US military. I also find it objectionable because your intent is not to commemorate the lives of these people, your intent is bash the president (just look at the title). IMO, you dishonor their memory....



LOL, your historical and cultural ignorance astounds me. Does your silly ass not know the cache` of songs, poems, books, and speeches about war in american,british, irish, and african countries were created by someone bemoaning the loss of soldiers, protesting the waste of human lives, and questioning the need for war?

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

your true colors are showing...

You say nothing about centuries of Arabic, Greek, Roman, British, Irish, American, and African folklore which laments the death of soldiers dying in war...

yet somehow

the pictures of dead black soldiers is shameful to you?

you've been busted...
"Please name one war, in which names and/or images of the slain have not been commemorated?"

My point is this...this thread is not a "commemoration".

Commemoration-n 1: a ceremony to honor the memory of someone or something [syn: memorialization, memorialisation] 2: a recognition of meritorious service

This thread doesn't honor the memory of the person, nor does it regognize meritorious service. It attacks the president's decision to send troops into Iraq by trying to elicit sympathy (for example the man standing over a coffin). If the creator of the thread really wanted to honor the soldiers then they'd change the title of the thread. The creator of the thread is trying to be clever, but even Ray Charles can see that this is an obvious attack against the war and the president...You give Bush too much props by saying that he controls the life and death of soldiers. You also make it very clear (OurEmpowerment) that you're against the war and you dislike the president: "Because I know most of their intentions were true but their Commander and Chief's was not. This so called war is needless, this is foolish, it needs to STOP."....please make your statement without the pics and life stories of dead soldiers....It's shameful and it dishonors the soldier....

It's also shameful that I must be white because I support the president and the war. We disagree so I must be white, huh? What's next, house slave? sellout? Oreo?

[This message was edited by ThaWatcher on November 12, 2003 at 07:40 AM.]
Kevin41 ... Yes, I would think everyone would ... but obviously I'm wrong about that because at least one person here doesn't.

ThaWatcher ... 2 things ... first of all, I don't think you're White because you support Bush. I wonder if you're White because your concept of honor and commemoration and acknowledgement of fallen fellow Black soldiers seems to be on the whole other side of the spectrum from what Black people's concept is. You can support GeeDub all you want to, but not seeing the posting of the names and faces and stories of these young soldier's lives (and deaths) as an honor is a little bit suspect of you.

Secondly, the Bush-bashing didn't even start in this thread until you accused it of being such. The comment by Our Empowerment regarding the Commander in Chief was one unrelated sentence in the context of his original post. Whereas the rest of us opened this thread and saw honorable military soldiers who had given their lives to this war, you opened it and saw "Because I know most of their intentions were true but their Commander and Chief's was not." Why is that?

Regardless of any disdain or mistrust of your president, regardless of your support for him or for this war, the fact remains that the pictures posted were true and real pictures of true and real soldiers that really and truly died fighting for this country in a war that has been questioned as to it's real, true motives. The motive of WWI or II was never questioned. The motive of the first Gulf War was never questioned. There was no doubt as to their validity. If you really know the true context of war and the death and destruction caused by it, then I can't see how you can't agree that no leader -- Dem, Repub, Conserv or Lib -- should never enter into one under a "question" of any kind.

This president did. And that is as much a true fact as it is that the people pictured and written about in this thread are dead. Liking or agreeing or supporting Bush doesn't change that fact. Is that not a true statement?

BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE.
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
Watcher,
what's the deal with purposely referring to me as "our empowerment"? are you that dense as to not know the difference between two different people?


and about the question you obviously cannot answer...i'll dumb it down for you, ok?

Please name one war, at any time, in any place on the planet which did not inspire laments and protests about the loss of brothers, sons, fathers, etc. Where is your precedent for asserting that black people in a black forum on a black website should not want to lament the passing of black soldiers?

You mean we should shout hallelujah over the death of our precious brothas? We should chuck the birth control pills, condoms, jellies, and foams out the window and supply "dubya" with a neverending procession of black bomb targets?
quote:
Originally posted by ThaWatcher:

It's also shameful that I must be white because I support the president and the war. We disagree so I must be white, huh? What's next, house slave? sellout? Oreo?


Well if the shoe fits...

Look here Watcher, you are perfectly welcome to support Dubya and to support the war. YOU ARE THE SHAMEFUL ONE, HOWEVER FOR DARING TO DEFINE "COMMEMORATION" FOR SOMEONE ELSE.

furthermore, you seem to believe that in order for one to support dubya and his war, one is obligated to keep quiet about the losses our families suffer?

If you support dubya, are you required to be silent as our already endangered loved ones fall?

if commemoration is wrong, what is the point of funerals with 21 gun salutes, full military dress, and ceremony?

you might not be white, but u sure are trans parent
quote:
Look here Watcher, you are perfectly welcome to support Dubya and to support the war. YOU ARE THE SHAMEFUL ONE, HOWEVER FOR DARING TO DEFINE "COMMEMORATION" FOR SOMEONE ELSE.


I think that about sums it up, Cliche'-Man!
I keep smellin' fish whenever you post... Why is that??

You are suspect because of what your Frame Of Reference, your Point Of Departure, and your Fundamental Focus. Yes, on a Black website, with conscious Black people, talking about Black issues, you better come with a Black perspective that is not the mirror reflection of the perspectives of others.

If you didn't know, the image in the mirror is a**-backwards and not a true representation. And, that's what this is all about! Represent whatever ideas you have but on this site whatever those ideas are best be an extension of what it is to be both AFRICAN and American.

And therein lies your problem... You've already shown your DISRESPECT and DISHONOR to the former in deference to the latter. It comes out in everything you say.

Again, if you want to talk your politics, there's a nice thread MBM started that's begging for your attention. But, I doubt a Fishy Cliche'-Man like yourself has much to say that would even begin to show independent thought that would require. All you have done is responded to thoughts of others hardly ever outlining your own.

In the fashion of The Weakest Link...
ThaWatcher... YOU ARE THE HUMAN STAIN! Bye Bye! Big Grin
Nmag...that was so corny... Roll Eyes

This whole thread is dishonorable, shameful, fruitless, and counterproductive...Sorry people, I'm not going to jump on the Anti-Bush Bandwagon just because that's what a "real African-American" would do. I've said my peace regarding this false "commemoration"...you so-called "conscious" people need to re-evaluate your consciousness....
I figured that you could only understand humor like that. So I was talking on your level!! Big Grin
quote:
You are suspect because of what your Frame Of Reference, your Point Of Departure, and your Fundamental Focus is.

Now, concerning those things, YOU need to re-evaluate what you are about!

What is your Frame Of Reference? BUSH??
I don't give a damn about Bush, Clinton, etc.

So you can drop that Anti-Bush Sh*t and try something that has a basis. YOU ARE SUSPECT! Because that's about the only thing you have to offer... that's why I ask, WHAT'S YOUR POINT OF DEPARTURE??

If I won't to hear the White Party Line whether it's Republicans or Democrats... no thank you, I'll go directly to the White people that expouse those views. No need for a cheap Negro Imitation - aka A** Backwards Reflection.

You for damn sure shouldn't be decrying what a "real" African-American is... as you have more or less stated you don't care for the term 'African' and 'Black' doesn't figure into the equation with anything you have to discuss here.

If I'm wrong demonstrate (don't be scared by that word) how I am.

You are the one with the ANTI-BLACK conscious. You agree with your White counterparts it seems that the whole "race thing" should be dropped...
So what the hell are you whining about!

You have no standing to tell anybody here what they should re-evaluate, Fishy!! Again, if you want to discuss politics do it >> HERE <<

broscreamDon't Be SCARED!!! broscream
hmmmmmmmmm, I went back to CBS to secure more photos and stories, given that I know there are plenty that I did not secure, but they are gone, I checked under CBS search and can't get any.

I guess this is their way of telling us it's time to forget. Well at least the hot links are still active (for now -- expect to see red Xs in the near future).

Brother Tha Watcher, the reason why people can't quit the military is because they have a contract, not because of their love for the service.

Notice how reenlistment has dropped to the floor, and as far as the guard/reserve is concerned it's going to be bear bones by this time next year.

I went over to fox and this is an example of what I found:

quote:
Army Sgt. Michael D. Acklin II, 25, of Louisville, Ky. Killed when two 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters crashed in Mosul, Iraq. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 320th Field Artillery, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), Fort Campbell, Ky.

Army Spc. Ryan T. Baker, 24, of Brown Mills, N.J. Killed when two 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters crashed in Mosul, Iraq. Assigned to the 4th Battalion, 101st Aviation Regiment, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), Fort Campbell, Ky.

Army Spc. William D. Dusenbery, 30, of Fairview Heights, Ill. Killed when two 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters crashed in Mosul, Iraq. Assigned to the 4th Battalion, 101st Aviation Regiment, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), Fort Campbell, Ky.

Army Pfc. Sheldon R. Hawk Eagle, 21, of Grand Forks, N.D. Killed when two 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters crashed in Mosul, Iraq. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 320th Field Artillery, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), Fort Campbell, Ky.

Army Sgt. Warren S. Hansen, 36, of Clintonville, Wis. Killed when two 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters crashed in Mosul, Iraq. Assigned to the 9th Battalion, 101st Aviation Regiment, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), Fort Campbell, Ky.

Army Chief Warrant Officer Erik C. Kesterson, 29, of Independence, Ore. Killed when two 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters crashed in Mosul, Iraq. Assigned to the 9th Battalion, 101st Aviation Regiment, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), Fort Campbell, Ky.


the above is basically statistics, not debth, no photo, no human side, that is what FOX wants us to see, and apparently that is all Tha Watcher wants to see.

But we the jury of your peers have spoken ... ,
quote:
Teary farewell to B'klyn G.I. killed in line of duty



By LESLIE CASIMIR
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER


Rayshawn Johnson

Pfc. Rayshawn Johnson of Brooklyn was eulogized yesterday with tears and songs as a protective big brother and a proud soldier who gave his life for his country.
"Rayshawn volunteered so that I - that we - can go to school," said his cousin, Abdul Young, 19, who spoke to a somber audience at the Vanderveer Park United Methodist Church in Flatbush. "Rayshawn joined the most powerful military in the world to help protect the finest country - and he paid the price."

Johnson, 20, of East New York, had been in the Army only a year when his Humvee struck a land mine in Tikrit, Iraq, on Nov. 3, killing him.

His remains were buried yesterday at Long Island National Cemetery with a full honor guard and a 21-gun salute.

A member of the 299th Engineer Battalion, 4th Infantry Division, based in Fort Hood, Tex., Johnson's mission in Iraq was to help build bridges. The young man had wanted to become a U.S. marshal after leaving the Army.

His foster mother of 13 years, Deborah Wynter, received Johnson's posthumous Purple Heart and Bronze Star.

Her sister, Rosalyn Wynter, recalled in the eulogy her last conversation with him, on Oct. 31. He had sent messages to his extended family.

"[He told me to tell] his brother to do well in school; ... to see [that] his sister join the Air Force; tell his little brother that he was trying to reach him for the birthday, but the phones weren't working," said Rosalyn Wynter, her trembling voice trailing off as she addressed scores in attendance.

She said she remembers praying hard for his safety on Nov. 3 - the day he died - after learning about the American helicopter that was shot down, killing 16 soldiers the previous day.

"I prayed to God ... keep him safe - and on that evening I realized that He kept him safe," she said. "There is no man that can keep him safer right now. He is in God's hands, and he will always remain in our hearts."

The military held off on announcing Johnson's death because they couldn't reach his birth parents, Patty Johnson and Nathaniel Herbert. Patty Johnson attended the funeral.

Herbert said in a phone call from Pittsburgh, where he lives, that he was incensed he hadn't been informed and that authorities should have been able to contact him through foster care records.

"The boy is dead, and I feel real bad about this," he said. "I think the biological mother and father should know about it."

Rayshawn Johnson's younger sister, Diana Herbert, 17, said she will keep a promise she made to Johnson a while ago. She'll join the Air Force.

"I already took the test in June," she said. "I'm going to do it for him."

Originally published on November 15, 2003




ThaWatcher I thought you were not talking to us on this topic because it makes you look like a fool from a distance.Big Grin

Well give a man enough rope and he would hang himself and you have certainly proved that saying to be true by coming back to the topic. Don't blame us if we call you a fool from now on
rotflmao

_____________________________
Is it just talk or are you for solutions? If you are GENUINELY interested in solving black problems? Then join us at http://www.theguidedog.com/BlackNation.html
He did that because he wants to show that even in a country where two soldiers, one an Army Specialist who is shot through both legs in the line of duty, held in captivity longer than the other, is being summarily discharged with a 30% disability benefit, and is a Black woman (Ms. Shoshana Johnson) and another who is merely a Private who suffered no gunshot wounds, was held 10 days less than her fellow comrad, and is a White woman, yet receives a better compensation package, better discharge benefit, and gets to make a million dollars while still having the ability to return to active duty (Ms. Jessica Lynch)... can still be friends and smile together in the face of the blatant racism, discrimination, disenfranchisement, and overall unfair treatment that is this country and the United States Army! Big Grin

BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE.
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
ohhhhhhh, now I get it, geee thannnka mama', I jusin don't no whats rong wid me, Izz jus gonna sufflu off' 'xcuzme i mean, Izz gonna mozzie on down to massa's big house an get me sum moor edumacation.

Big Grin [with one front tooth missing]

[I actually, didn't know who they were, I guess in their case, Bush ALMOST cost them their lives.]

[This message was edited by Our Empowerment on November 20, 2003 at 11:10 PM.]

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