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It's not finished, there are many, many more brothers and perhaps some sisters that I have not posted, but the stories that go with the pictures are heavy, I read of wives and mothers begging their sons, husbands or fathers not to take the assignment, I read of brother's about to retire this year, I read of a [white] husband who moved up his wedding so that he could come home to his wife and have a big celebration upon their next reunion, I read of a brotha who did his full tour, went back to college then went back in as a reservist to handle matter in Iraq, I read of brothers who believed in what was taking place over there, I read of brothas that was confident that they were helping a country that wanted our help, I read of recent high school graduates (too young to legally drink in a USA bar, but not too young to die)excited to 'see the world' (and now the hereafter), I read, and I read but now my heart hurts.

Because I know most of their intentions were true but their Commander and Chief's was not. This so called war is needless, this is foolish, it needs to STOP.

I will try to post more, maybe in time, brofrown maybe not. Where is the honor, the valor, the lesson.

We must heed the voice of reason, the voice of our Queens, the voice that makes sense ... we must listen.

[This message was edited by Our Empowerment on November 02, 2003 at 08:28 PM.]
Buffalo, N.Y.
David Evans Jr.

Pvt. David Evans Jr., 18, enlisted in the Army after graduating in 2002 from Kensington High School in his hometown of Buffalo, N.Y.

Evans, of the 977th Military Police Company, was killed May 25 when a munitions dump he was guarding in Diwaniyah, Iraq, exploded and the steel shelter he was in collapsed.

He leaves an infant son, David Kevonta Evans, who was born in February, a month after Evans made his last visit home on leave. "I wish he could be here to see him, to hold him and to tell him how much he loved him," said the baby's mother, Tamara Douglas. "He wanted to see his son so bad."

His father, David Evans Sr., said his son wanted to make something of himself. "It was his choice to sign up and protect us," he said. "I'm proud of him."

At Evans' funeral, dozens of young people wore T-shirts memorializing him. Evans' infant son was pictured on many, with the words: "The legacy still continues."

Mourners spoke of the sense of service clear in Evans that would lead him to the military with the goal of a career in law enforcement. As a high school student, he interned at City Hall.

Friend Mallory Lee recalled a telephone call that Evans said might be their last.

"I said, 'Don't say that. You're coming back. We're getting old. You're going to see my kids, I'm going to see your kids. We're getting old,'" said Lee, 18.

"He was the brother I never had," she said.
A Jamaica-born man who emigrated to Canada in 1997 died fighting with the U.S. Marines in Iraq, according to published reports.

Cpl. Bernard Gooden, 22, who was killed in a gun battle in central Iraq April 4, is the first Canadian to be killed in combat in the war to oust Saddam Hussein, according to one newspaper.

"All I'm hearing now in my head is: 'Your son Brent is dead. Brent is dead.' That's all I hear," his mother, Carmen Palmer, said April 8.

Gooden, an immigrant to the Toronto area from Jamaica, had served as a Canadian Forces reservist before joining the U.S. Marines in June 2001.

"He didn't go in (to the Marine Corps) wanting to fight," said his girlfriend, Elizabeth Knox.

Gooden's mother said her son felt so safe inside his tank that he called it home.

The family plans to hold a memorial service and bury Gooden at a banana and coffee plantation in Jamaica, where he played soldier games as a child.

Gooden came to Canada at 16 to live with his father, Bernard Sr., in Whitby, Ontario.

Gooden went to high school in Whitby and attended Centennial College and York University until the school was hit by a strike.

To pass the time during the strike, he went to Mount Vernon, N.Y., to visit his mother and never returned.

His father said he didn't know his son had joined the Marines until his sister told him that Gooden had been killed.

[we all know people with stories like this, it should not be]
San Diego, Calif.
Devon D. Jones

As a student at Lincoln High School, Army Pvt. Devon D. Jones, 19, of San Diego told his counselor that he wasn't interested in the military. He planned a career as a teacher.

But Jones recently returned to the school to proudly show off his Army uniform, said Wendell Bass, principal at the school.

"He said he'd had a change of heart and decided to go in," Bass said.

Jones, based at Georgia's Fort Stewart with the 3rd Infantry Division, died in Iraq when his vehicle plunged into a ravine, the Defense Department reported April 7.

Jones, who graduated from Lincoln High in 2002, was a good student, Bass said.

Jones had been a teaching intern at Kennedy Elementary School, located across the street from Lincoln High, Bass said.

"He had a desire to come back and teach English one day," Bass said. "He was just a real gentleman. He was a young man that was quiet but at the same time was well liked by everyone."

Jones bounced from foster home to foster home after his mother went to prison. Three years ago, he found Evelyn Houston and the family he would call his own.
Mobile, Ala.
Howard Johnson II

Army Pfc. Howard Johnson II, 21, of Mobile, Ala., was killed in action in Iraq.

"He was God's gift to us and the Lord has taken him away," said his father, the Rev. Howard Johnson, who pastors Truevine Missionary Baptist Church in Prichard.

His family says the deployment to the Persian Gulf was his first trip out of the country. His unit, the Army's 507th Maintenance Company, wasn't expected to see combat, but it was ambushed by Iraqi forces March 23.

Johnson, 62, said he and his wife, Gloria, with two daughters, had waited 17 years for a son.

Mrs. Johnson, her face wet with tears, said, "We had no idea war would break out and we would lose our son."

U.S. Rep. Silvestre Reyes, D-El Paso, a member of the House Armed Services Committee, said March 26 that the 507th Maintenance Company ran into a heavily armed Iraqi combat unit that included two tanks and automatic weapons when it made the wrong turn near An Nasiriyah.
Raleigh, N.C.
James I. Lambert II

Finally, Jacqueline Lambert got the news she'd been waiting months to hear: Her husband, Spc. James I. Lambert, was coming home from Iraq.

The couple (she is an Army sergeant) had been deployed to the Middle East in February. She returned in May to their home in Fayetteville, N.C., outside Fort Bragg. But on July 31, less than two weeks before he was due to join her, her 22-year-old husband was killed in Baghdad when he was struck by a stray bullet that the Pentagon said may have been fired in some kind of celebration.

Lambert, a Virginia native who graduated from a Raleigh high school, "was happy he was coming home," Jacqueline Lambert said. "He was excited."
[why did he jump?]
Orangeburg, S.C.
Vorn J. Mack


Pfc. Vorn J. Mack, 19, of Orangeburg, S.C., died Aug. 23 near Ar Ramadi, Iraq. Mack jumped into the Euphrates River and did not resurface; his body was found downstream Aug. 24.

Mack was with the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, based at Fort Carson, Colo.

Mack was roughly 5-foot-3 and 115 pounds when Sgt. Andre Boler saw him for the first time at Fort Carson in March.

"I thought he was someone's little brother, he was so young and little," Boler said. But that made no difference: "He was a great soldier." Mack would often cheer up soldiers with a cigarette or a story, Boler said.

A computer analyst, Mack began basic training a month after graduation from high school in 2002, his aunt Brinder Hicks said. He was one of five children, and one sister is in the Army in Kuwait.

"He was a little man with a big heart," Hicks said.
[50 with 6 children and still gambling with life? What was put in his brain to go looking for trouble for over 30yrs?]
Los Angeles
John W. Marshall

In his last dispatch before the war, 50-year-old John W. Marshall referred to himself as an old soldier with a clear purpose and little luxury to debate the reason for his mission.

"It's really not an issue with me. I am not a politician or a policy maker, just an old soldier," he wrote home in an e-mail. "Any doubts on my part could get someone killed."

Marshall, based at Fort Stewart, was killed April 8 by an Iraqi rocket-propelled grenade. He is the oldest U.S. military casualty of the [major]conflict in Iraq.

Marshall grew up in Los Angeles, enlisted when he was 18, and served stints in Korea and Germany. He and his wife, Denise, had six children, ages 9 to 17.

His mother, Odessa Mitchell, saw him in October before he headed to Kuwait, and never feared he wouldn't come home.

"That was something my son wanted to do. He loved the Army," she said.
Naw Bush victimized them by fighting to obtain oil and billions of dollars in contracts for his cronies....the unwritten affirmative action that benefits them only with YOUR tax dollars....while at the same time house negroes fight against the laws that would have increased opportunity for these individuals and made them skip the war in the first place.......
What is the matter with you ThaWatcher? These pictures bring home to some of us the level of the tragedy unfolding and how far some bastards would go in the name of money. Look at them ThaWatcher, they died for your President and his cronies to make a fast buck.

_____________________________
Is it just talk or are you for solutions? If you are GENUINELY interested in solving black problems? Then join us at http://www.theguidedog.com/BlackNation.html

[This message was edited by henry38 on November 04, 2003 at 11:19 AM.]
Way to go on avoiding the question henry and kevin...once again, If you died in a war- would you want someone to post your pic and story on the internet saying that you died for nothing? Have we fogotten that none of these soldiers were drafted? It's always sad to hear about a soldier dying, but don't dishonor their memory by saying that they died for nothing....
Yes I would ThaWatcher. Especially if I died under the circumstancies that would enable my commanders and their friends to get rich at my demise. I would want the whole world to know. But then why am I trying to explain this to you when it is glaringly obvious you are missing the point.

Think man how would you and your family like it if I sent you to your death on some lie so that I and my friends can make a fast buck. If you or your family don't mind, man you come from some mean background.

_____________________________
Is it just talk or are you for solutions? If you are GENUINELY interested in solving black problems? Then join us at http://www.theguidedog.com/BlackNation.html
ThaWatcher - do you not understand the difference between honoring individuals while at the same time decrying the war in which they were ordered to fight? These soldiers did not choose to go to Iraq. They did their jobs well and died with honor. The dishonor lies with the people who are responsible for their deaths.


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
MBM,

I know Thawatcher has to know what we mean. I am mad that the black soldiers served a sorry azz country where they have to fight for the military and then come home to fight for equality. They died making a president rich who thinks that affirmative action is not necessary....and does not give a pfuck about high black unemployment or black issues in general. That really pisses me off that those brothers and sisters died in vain. Why watcher does not understand that concept I do not know..........
Have either one of you ever served in the USAF?...judging by your previous responses the obvious answer is no...

Gentlemen, this is a volunteer ARMY...and every soldier has a legal right to refuse to follow an illegal order. These soldiers did what they thought was "right" and you dishonor them by using their photos and stories to validate your claims against Bush. If you want to bash the Bush Administration, leave the soldiers out of it!!!
Well, have you ever served ThaWatcher? I did serve in the USAF as in Air Force up until this war was about to kick off. From your responses about this you obviously have never done any type of service, so watch what you say. I would say that more blacks in service don't fall into the Conservative staunchness the military is known for. In addition I would say that these young people who died 75% of them were trying to get out of the situations in their hometowns.
It is naivety to think that Bush is not using the military to enhance the the pockets of a few people in this nation. I mean this is the same guy who was involved and enriched with the Savings and Loans Scandal of the late 80's. He's been involved in more criminial activity on public record than any other president that I can recall in my lifetime. And all of this was before his presidency. I'm waiting to see what comes out after he gets out of office. Eek

Our people have made the mistake of confusing the methods with the objectives. As long as we agree on objectives, we should never fall out with each other just because we believe in different methods, or tactics, or strategy. We have to keep in mind at all times that we are not fighting for separation. We are fighting for recognition as free humans in this society
Malcolm X, 1965

[This message was edited by Yssys on November 04, 2003 at 01:46 PM.]
Yes, I have served in the military- the USArmy to be specific and I was in an infantry unit. These soldiers were doing their duty, and there is no dishonor in that. Who joins the military without considering the possibility of death? Separation from family, death, dismemberment etc are all part and parcel and it's unrealistic for civillians to think that we can be at war and have no deaths. If you have an ax to grind against the president, don't use a dead soldiers picture to gain sympathy for your position. That's hitting below the belt and it dishonors the soldier...
How unrealistic is it for "civilians" to wish that "everybody could just get along"? All anyone's trying to do is live their lives. Once that "soldier" is laying in his coffin, I would guess he no longer knows about either his belt or any kind of dishonor nor honor nor whether or not his picture is being either displayed or not displayed. It no longer matters to the "soldier".
quote:
Originally posted by ThaWatcher:
What's the point of posting pics and stories?...Do you think that these soldiers would want their pics up here singing a sad song? These people are heroes and you're victimizing them!


First what is your definition of "Hero".

When you have orders to do a job regardless of the duty, or how it turns out as far as your employer is concerned it's about work.

Second, "What's the point of posting pics and stories?" so that you and all other viewer would think critically about the issues surrounding their deaths.

Third, "Do you think these soldiers would want their pics up here singing a sad song?" My answer is Yes. As you could see there is one story that I believe was connected to an African American however their was no pic, so only the story was posted. The soldiers are dead, their families are carrying on in the best way they can, where do you think the photos came from, THE FAMILY, that's why some are not in military gear. The words are primarily from family, friends, and associates.

If you are not sad, or somehow changed by this post, you might want to consider prayer.
ThaWatcher,
you have no valid argument against the display of these pictures. This is no different than the vietnam memorial or WWII memorials erected throughout the country for people to see, feel, touch, the names and images of soldiers fallen.
The point of a memorial is not only to honor those slain but to prompt contemplation on whether any war is worth the human cost.
My arguement is this....using a dead soldiers picture is the lowest form of using imagery to make a point. Doesn't the original poster know that some soldiers have to die? Why are only black soldiers pictures posted? Was their sacrifice somehow greater than any other soldier who died?....It's so obvious that the person isn't posting these pics to make us "think"...they posted these pics in a pathetic attempt to use these soldiers life stories as ammunition against the president (the title says it all)....they should be ashamed of themselves!
ThaWatcher,
You do not have a clue to what extent the deaths of these soldiers affected people who are in this message forum. Who are you to tell someone how they should greive or show respects to someone else? You are really overstepping your bounds with that BS. There is nothing posted that is disrespectful in nature.

AS so far as W is concerned-just listen to Micheal Moore...he outlines a plethora of issues.

Nobody gives a damn about W, what he has done is obvious to the world and no longer a mystery of any kind. Only the flag-waving loyalists of the right are in denial about what has realy happened and what situation(s) W has placed this country in. It is funny though how your type will remain mum about an unjustified war but will trip out on clinton getting his Lowinsky on and trying to hide it from his old lady.....and that type of cognitive dissonance never works in the academic world where intellect and factual information counts. Since right-wingers cannot validate that right-wing racist BS in academia, they just label universities as bastions of liberalism that should be disregarded in terms of validity. Nope....they(the right has to take their ignorant(of the facts) following and give them big doses of rhetoric instead of data. From startig this war to the way they have learned to count unemployment falsely to make the numbers seem better, to lying their azz off about the economy...man if the economy was so damn strong, don't you think interest rates would have gone back up?.....you people are being pimped bigtime by this administration. Many of you are poor and marginally educated, and have the nerve to vote for the white...er...right as a way to take a counter-to-those-blacks political stand. You ought to go read some of the conservative literature on anti-intellectualism and how the dumbing down of america can be profitable and still keep power in the hands of a few. They try to do the blacks by racist, exclusionary polices that limit or stifle educational, financial and professional opportunites for blacks. They work to oppress poor blacks and actually pimp poor whites. They tell the poor and marginally educated whites that we are against those "black" policies, hence we are the white people's party. They(marginal whites) bite the hook on that racist bs and put the right-wingers in office. The right-wingers attack civil rights...and at the same time pass tax cuts that load their pockets and allows the poor, marginal white to get a new confedrate flag for their trucks (dean said it) and 300.00 to buy something else with. They also disenfranchise their azzes, tell them it is because of immigration and give all the work to Haliburton.....even in the midst of high unemployment. they could have kept allot of work over here or spread it out as economic stimulus packages.....did they? Hell no.......so all that is to say this........no one has to stoop that low to use these individuals against W......look around you, read the news, learn what indicators are for a failed presidency and you'll see that no ammunition is needed..you realy will.....I could go on and on but I have better things to do.......
quote:
Originally posted by ThaWatcher:
Have we fogotten that none of these soldiers were drafted?


It appears that only one volunteered for this particular war, no others wanted to go to this war, but they went because they 'got orders', they stayed because they 'got orders', and they knew in no uncertian terms, that if they did anything other than what was ordered they would go to jail because they 'got orders'.



quote:
Originally posted by henry38:
... under the circumstancies that would enable my commanders and their friends to get rich at my demise. I would want the whole world to know.

... it is glaringly obvious you are missing the point.



Absolutely.



quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
ThaWatcher - These soldiers did not choose to go to Iraq. They did their jobs well and died with honor. The dishonor lies with the people who are responsible for their deaths.



Absolutely.



quote:
Originally posted by Yssys:
...these young people who died 75% of them were trying to get out of the situations in their hometowns.

It is naivety to think that Bush is not using the military to enhance the the pockets of a few people in this nation.

I mean this is the same guy who was involved and enriched with the Savings and Loans Scandal of the late 80's. He's been involved in more criminial activity on public record than any other president that I can recall in my lifetime. And all of this was _before_ his [stolen or appointed] presidency.



Absolutely.

>

... its time for Prosperity


> >  >



An African American Board Game Of Wealth & Success.


[This message was edited by Our Empowerment on November 07, 2003 at 06:56 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by ThaWatcher:
... Who joins the military without considering the possibility of death? Separation from family, death, dismemberment etc are all part and parcel and it's unrealistic for civillians to think that we can be at war and have no deaths. ... That's hitting below the belt and it dishonors the soldier...


If the military branches wanted to be fair, they would incorporate all of the 'considerations', as you put it, into their advertising. Starting with showing how the family separation results in affairs and broken homes; then the various ways soldiers die in the military: death during pratice, death during transport, death by 'friendly fire', death by enemy fire, and non-physical death by loosing one's mind; but don't forget to show the arms shot off, eyes cut out, legs blown off, as well as the loss of sexual funtion and/or procreation ability due to 'freiendly chemical warfare'. If that's not enough you could also add all of the "etc" that you claim is part and parcel in the commitment.

But instead of fairness in advertising, THEY are "hitting below the belt" by showing nice sharp uniforms, vacation like travel, and "GI bill" benefits.

Have you ever wondered why the military is the only job you can't quit?

There are many shameful aspects to Bush's decision to place our brothers and sisters in harms way, but the most ironic piece of shameful Bush spit, is the fact that he avoided his duty when called to serve in nam.

Is that the Appointed President you are protecting, is that the Commander and Chief you are proud of, is that the 'Duty-dodging' person you want your children to risk their lives for?

Please reconsider your blind loyalty.
The gentleman with his arms outstretched over that coffin just makes me cry. My heart goes out to him and all parents/grandparents/relatives who are going through this throughout this country. There really are NO WORDS to describe this. NONE!!

The past is not dead. In fact, it's not even past. - William Faulkner, Novelist; Mississippi
@negro...

this thread isn't "marking the passing of our own" it's using dead soldiers as ammuniton against the war and the president. It's shameful and disrespectful...Iraqi insurgents killed these soldiers, not Bush...

@Our Empowerment
"Have you ever wondered why the military is the only job you can't quit?"
I know exactly why you can't quit...Everyone loves to wear the uniform,live on base, college education, travel, and have visions of being the war hero in a ticker tape parade...but when air raid siren sounds people start having "conscientious objections"....
When black men and women die in war started by whites to protect their investments and the Black community is still suffering from high unemployment rates, unattainable health insurance costs, etc what was their purpose for dying, except the white man. Yes I'm saying it.
The deaths of our brothers and sisters have done nothing to contribute to the Black community in the U.S. or abroad. So ThaWatcher, until you can substantially prove otherwise, these people certainly didn't die for any improvements in my neighborhood.

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