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We now know at least one thing that didn't happen at the Bush ranch in Texas were the Chinese President recently met with GW Bush. CNN reports today (10-31-02), are saying that the Chinese remain in opposition to the UN resolution on Iraq. It appears GW failed to convince the Chinese President to go along with his preemptive strike language in the UN resolution. Americans neither hear nor see what is really said.
Control of information or in the case of GW Bush, lies! This is the advantage of meeting global elites at the Texas ranch.
GWB, Dubya his people lovingly or jokingly call him Yale alumnist and all(other topic). The crawford ranch is a private property not tax payers so GWB has the run of the laws literally. No trespassing and the like and no way that any dissentful official could have access to plant bugs and servaling devices. Just goes to correct the wrong who believe that America is EMPERIAL in its angles. America is really the mercenary state for corporate emperialism and GWB has the old and corporate money connections to usher in this new age of corporate globalization. Crawford Ranch is more like corporate suite texas. keep Ur eye on the vanishing Afgahn front and the down play of global denial of bushes push to incorporate Iraq under an American tax number or tax shelter should I say. Afghanistan has been host to a hostile corporate takeover in the name of 9/11(sad as the event was), but Hitler came to promenance after a "national disaster" reichstag burning blamed on the target group and retaliation acted out on them. We are playing audience and spectator to something we should control and in the mad rush to protect the soft under belly of cush' American lifestyles we have coughed up the single thing that even made this stolen land world renown. So when U think of Crawford think of ken lay, tommy franks, rumsfield, cheney and the carlyle groups cush lifestyle and see crawford as the new situation room to make the calls for the take-overs.
Peace Love Light
Of course! You guys wnat to know everything that goes on? I can gurantee that what is being said to china,you don't want to know. Bush is trying to pursuade the world that we are fighting for our country's safety,and possibly the worlds safety,from a madman saddam,and the world don't want to help! You may not like him,but bush is trying to protect you,and your families. More than what Clinton did. Korea signed the pact for no nukes,(pact with clinton) then took what we had to offer for them not doing it,all along doing it anyways. You think China helped?!?! you bet. But what does that say about Korea? They dont' want peace,they don't respect us,and they can't be trusted. You need to be wondering what the other countries are doing to stop terrorism. Nothing,I bet. China,Russia,they don't want us to invade Iraq,as they want whoever wants to hurt us,to be able to hurt us. You think RUssia or china care about you? you need to wonder about that. China and russia would love for us to get our asses hit by another 9-11. After 9-11,people got wind that we had some info that there was supposed to be an attack,the US pop was up in arms,wondering why "you didn't do something to prevent it" Now,we have wind that saddam is trying to build nukes,and noone wants to do anything about it. YOu want to wait?
Saddam a madman? Ronald Reagan said the Russians were evil! Jessie Helms said Castro was the menace! Bush 41 blamed it all on Noreiaga. Then of course, it was Ho Chi Mein and those Communist that I thought included the Chinese! No Factoid, I think you been watching too many CNN propaganda broadcast. You may be experiencing some difficulty in distinguishing fact from propaganda.
Maybe you haven't seen enough fact. I have seen video's of Russian teens being shot by the russian army for PROTESTING. Russians are evil. Saddam wanted chemical weapons. He got them,he used them. Saddam wanted a large military. He got them,he used them. now saddam wants a nuke. see the pattern? Hey,if you want to find out the hard way? please move to another country,I don't want to be near you. China? come on. They backstab us every chance they get. korea,our plane that landed there. The enemy has come to our homeland,my vote is to do proactive actions,not reactive ones.
I am an honorably discharged Vietnam Veteran. I served from 1971-73,US Army KORSCOM. I have heard all of the political communist propaganda that ultimately killed over 56,000 US soldiers. Meaning no disrespect, you appear to be a nice young white guy. That said, Factoid I know exactly where you are coming from, - trust me!
I myself served in the Army. I do know how the propoganda machine works. I do know that we can sit back,and watch to see if hussein wants to use nukes on us or not,and hope he doesn't. I really dont' want to wait. Now,I also know that propoganda is just that. I thought Kosovo was stupid. Somalia,etc,where all ploys to divert attention from the lewinsky trials,and where meaningless propoganda tactics used by clinton. I just think that with Iraq,we can't afford to see what plays out.
This is what I believe Factoid, the US weapons inspection team enjoyed a 90% success rate in finding and destroying Iraq's chemical WMD. The Desert Storm invasion followed and since the end of the shooting war, the continuation of US economic sanctions and the establishment of US and British no-fly zones have drastically curtailed Iraq's ability to develop nukes or make war with anybody.

Moreover, even if Iraq violated all of the UN resolutions as they are accused, there is no proof or evidence by either the CIA, American or British monitoring agency that clearly links the UN resolution violations to new Iraqi aggression towards another sovereign nation. There is no British or American proof or credible evidence that the UN violations resulted in the commission of new atrocities against the Kurds or any other anti-Saddam group within Iraq. The Bush administration, CIA or British lacks creditable evidence that Iraq either financed or was an accessory in any way to 9/11. None of the participants who committed the 9/11 crimes were Iraqi! No CIA or British evidence exists that clearly links Iraq to the sale of chemicals to any country, terrorist organization or enemy of the US anywhere in the world!

Now Factoid, it is highly unlikely that you will convince me of otherwise, and if you like, in another post I will be happy to explain why you will not convince me or produce evidence that will facilitate you in convincing me.
You are sadly not up to date on your news.
There are several ties with some of the hijackers of the planes 9-11,to Iraqi officials,Saddams right hand man has had pictures taken with that Muhammad guy,Bin laden's deputy. Fact.
The US sanctions on Iraq are a failure. We told Iraq in the surrender accord that if Iraq would not pursue weapons,and would give theirs up,we would give medicine and aid to the Iraqi people. Iraq complied,but took the aid and medicine,sold it on the black market,got weapons. Fact

The inspection teams,had a 90% success rate,only in the areas that the Iraqi government would allow them to go into. They where supposed to be able to go anywhere,anytime,besides the 8 presidential palaces. yet,when they showed up to most places,they where held off at gun point. Why?

As for Iraq's aggression toward a sovereign nation deal. they broke the surrender accord,period. They are trying to get nukes,period. they are rebuilding their military,period. All in violation of the UN accord. Now,tell me,that one country invades another. another country stops them,makes them surrender under said conditions,country accepts for a little bit. Then the country breaks the agreement,that country should just walk away? what does that say bout the UN? Useless? Is that what you want?

For the no fly zones,all the no fly zones did was say that Iraqi military coulndn't fly in them. That says nothing about military men,weapons,trucks,tanks. So that is useless also.

Now,why do you think Saddam had those elections last month? because if he was an "elected official" You can't call him a dictator. If he's an elected official,he can cry the "I am wanted by my country,the US is trying to take away a muslim leader" in the hopes they will help him. In the so called elections,he was the only vote,there was not even a box for a write in! Anyone who spoke up against him was killed. After the "elections" he gave amnesty to all prisoners,for popular support. Which means all prisoners in the country walk free. SO,when relatives started asking where their husband,son,brother was,as they haven't heard from them,Saddam shut them up. When they protested in the streets against him,and CNN made it public,Saddam kicked out all media except for 10 pro iraqi newspaper columnists. Wow! this man should be able to just set over there and run his country,huh!

You won't pursuade me otherwise either. I am not naive enough to believe that if we let sleeping dogs lie,they won't come back later to bite us.
As far as I can see, the Bush administration is lying to Americans about Iraq! I would never believe men like GW Bush, Cheney or Rumsfeld, oh, you could add Colin and Condi too. They are all bold face liars!!! Your problem is that you are most likely pro-Republican, pro-conservative, pro-Christian; pro-Israel, anti-Muslim and anti-Islam that equals pro-global white hegemony!!!...right?
pro-Republican, pro-conservative, pro-Christian; pro-Israel, anti-Muslim and anti-Islam that equals pro-global white hegemony

Pro republican. yes
Pro conservative no
pro christian. not really.
pro israel. no
anti muslim. not the good ones
anti islam. not the good ones
pro gloabal white hegemony. Sorta everyone likes to see their race on top.

As for you,you are pro black power? pro democrat? anti war?
"And don't get stupid either. Your trying to make a baseless racist issue out of Iraq."

No factoid, I'm 50 years old, my days for believing what white men say, i.e., Jesus, white bosses or President Bush are long gone!!

There are several ties with some of the hijackers of the planes 9-11,to Iraqi officials,Saddams right hand man has had pictures taken with that Muhammad guy,Bin laden's deputy. Fact.

White men say this! I am educated at the Masters level, coupled with my age, - very little of what white men say, again, from the Pope to the historians who wrote my history to the President of the US is true. Sorry Factoid, I refuse to die believing only the white mans bullllshittt.
If the US government believes, REAL or IMAGINED that Iraq has violated as much as one resolution, the Bush administration wants a UN resolution that allows the US to attack Iraq. Clearly, the Bush administration does not want peace they are demanding WAR with Iraq. But what about Al-Qeada? What new plans has GW Bush offered Americans about capturing and bringing Bin Laden to justice?

Once again the government is lying about disarming Iraq. The so-called weapons inspections the Bush administration has been proclaiming is a RUSE that serves as the pretext for WAR! WAR is the driver that generates the BILLIONS OF DOLLARS A DAY it will cost to execute this phony war. Cheney, Rumsfeld, GW Bush and their friends in the Defense Industry are HELL BENT on getting some of those Billions of Dollars! Companies like Boeing, Lockheed, Microsoft and a host of other military hardware manufactures are salivating in anticipation of the bids for huge government contracts. This is why the Democratic House and Senate have been so silent. Like the President of the United States, the Democrats know that their constituents within their states benefit in a variety ways from war, e.g., government contracts to industries directly and indirectly associated with military hardware manufacturing, increased employment within those industries, conspicuous boom in local economies etc. If for example companies like Boeing and Microsoft win major government contracts, just imagine the economic boom that will follow in Seattle Washington.

The Bush administration has no choice except WAR! They must make good on the promises and commitments to business. No doubt, GW Bush will certainly be a one term President. GW Bush knows that without war there will be no government contracts which amounts to a lost of BILLIONS OF DOLLORS and of political support for a second term Bush administration. Loss of support for the Republican incumbent will certainly usher in a Democratic President in a hurry. Meanwhile, blood thirsty Americans get the only thing they really want, Iraqi blood!
Factoid, you appear to be a young white guy, so in the interest of fairness and because you may not be as old and experienced, I will give you the benefit of doubt. But, if I'm wrong about your age and experience and it turns out that you are actually the same age and equally educated, then you are hopelessly lost like your great great grandparents who till their deaths really thought black people were animals no different that cattle! In this case, I write purely out of pity for your hopeless soul. This exercise is for me a philanthropic endeavor and not a waste time!

Now, I have stated: I'm 50 years old, my days for believing what white men say, i.e., Jesus, white bosses or President Bush are long gone!! The following is an attempt to clarify what I talking about;

The 1611 King James Version; as taught and propagated by many white evangelical and southern Baptist preachers, teaches that Ham (the black brother) the father of Canaan was cursed by Noah and therefore shall be the servant or slave of his (white) biblical brothers! This particular verse, the so-called Negro curse in many academic writings is the justification for slavery! Moreover, even if you argue that slavery was rooted in economics rather than race, - that still does not exonerate the Bible or those who used the verse as a justification for the way my forefathers were treated by whites. Now let me ask you something right now Factoid, do I believe this? Should I teach this to my black sons? Did black or African people write this? If you were black Factoid, how would you answer the above questions? AND PLEASE DON'T GIMME THE IGNORANCE BULL CRAP!

Lets move on to the next lie and bullllshiiit good white people just like you, told the entire world, and oh, as you say "don't get stupid" and ask me how white folks told the entire world cuzz I'll tell you how. Something called "Print Capitalism," I'm sure you're educated enough, so I will not define it for you. In any event, lets briefly examine just a couple of the more popular lies; "blacks are less intelligent than whites," from this, whites produced a whole host of racial discriminations and justifications in almost every area of black life. Last one, Jesus is white and therefore by proxy so is God!! Here again, whites from the Pope to Southern white preachers to Santa Claus developed a cornucopia of lies from simply continuing to paint Jesus as white! Thus, the spread of Christianity is in fact the spread of whiteness. So when the scripture says: "Thou shall have no other God before me," for guys like YOU, the statement includes the God of Islam or any other Muslim, Buddha or African God, - in short, "Thou shall have no other God before the white God."

Now for the last time Factoid, the above statements are true and factual! If you disagree, then please by all means challenge me! At 50 years of age and adequately educated, after all the lies white people wrote and told, for you to expect me to believe a liar like GW Bush is a goddamm Insult!!!!!!
I am aware of 90% of what you wrote to me and I agree. More importantly than the facts, I know the patterns in which this government walks.

Also, GW's plot to take back over the opportunities developed here in america are in progress as well. There are more minority own businesses, home owners and millionaires than before the Clinton's 8 years and it has all hurt big business. I agree that GW is trying to pay back financially to the larger corporations with war (the republicans have always leaned for war); but, that is not his only agenda. He has a little house cleaning to do as well and we are now (successfully) on that menu with the suspected snipers.

Funny how a measly little man, who felt that a smile and a wink into a camera was good enough for a debate, has become so charismatic. Any ideas where this confidence came from?

Your ability to portray all whites with one brush,is exactly what your people are fighting for against whites. I myself an an Italian american,my people came over on a boat in 1916. You think Italians had it easy? Did we bitch about it? We WORKED HARD,made ourselves who we are. We never rioted,which in turn tore up our own neighborhoods. We never took the free handout. Thats what I see in the black community,is "what can you do for the black community?" Instead of "what can you do for the community?" Period. The black community alienates itself with this ideology.
I can tell you,growing up in WV,with no blacks around at all,you hear it all. The nigger word used like its going out of style. I was into the rap music,dr dre,snoop dog,I dressed like that. I was called a wigger. (white nigger) I actually felt sorry for the black community,for what it went through. THEN I moved to the DC area. Saw how the inner city blacks acted. Loud,thugish,punks. Starting fights. Calling every white guy cracker,trying to intimidate everyone. I lost that sorry feeling,and seen where the white resentment comes from.
If you want anything,you have to start from the inside,change yourselves. IF you want help,help yourselves first.

What lies have I told you Kraaal? You seem to say that white people tell lies about you? I am white? Tell me how I lied to you. Would it be fair to say that all blacks kill people,because a few have done it? then don't paint me with that "all whites lie" bullshit.
Now, first things first, you personally did not lie to me! Unlike a psychologist who is interested in the psychological well being of individuals, I am a social scientist that sees social aggregates or groups. Case in point, the King James Version of the Holy Bible fits like a glove. In this case when I say whites or white people, I'm referring to the few literate whites that wrote the Bible, the print owners who published it and the mass of white people who read it and believe it! Negroes or Africans didn't write or convert the 1611 Version of the Holy Bible to English. No such black publishing company published the Bible and no black companies distributed the bible, - white people did all that, especially in 1611! So when I said whites or white people I meant the group rather than the individual. So from the scientific point of view, "whites" is a general rather than individual concept.

Secondly, I'm gonna give you some props, first for not denying the facts I laid out and for confronting as best you could the specific contents of my post. Having done so, you deserve a reasoned response to your latest post. I wouldn't if I were you attempt to compare the Italian experience in America with that of the African American. Prejudice towards Italians is really a European/ WASP experience and not a black /Italian thing. That is, Italians in the US are categorized as white, a valued social construct. Thus today, Italian slurs like guinea or dago possess little if any social value at all in America. But the word Niiggger still does caary social value for black people!

You talked about Italians coming to the US on a boat and working hard. Please be careful, because blacks came by boat as well as brute force and worked very hard in bondage!!!You talked about WV, moving to DC and thuggish blacks etc. Please, do not confuse dignified, educated, skilled and righteous black folk with THUGS! And finally, I hope you understand what I was trying to say in my last post. I do not believe you have ever encountered a truly angry black man. What you thought was anger in me would not scratch the surface in some truly pissed black men I know! Oh, I still think Bush is a liar!
Italians came to America and immediately began to implement the ruthless, murderous, outlaw tactics of the mafia. Isn't it funny how television, movies, and even gangsta rap glorifies the mafioso who has proven to be much more dangerous and crime loving than any black thug could ever be?

Where's MBM?
He should be in here arguing to take guns away from Italians. They've shot up probably hundreds of thousands of Americans.

"I coulda freed thousands more if only they had known they were slaves..."

Harriet Tubman
Blacks also worked hard. And when we "bitched" We had good reason. We were bitching about Our rights and those lynchings. When We didn't get our rights, We built Our own self sufficient, economically successful communities. Rosewood, Greenwood, Mount Bayou, Wilimington, Boley, Nicodemus and Allensworth were some of Our successful communities, built from hard work and not "bitching" about how We were being treated. You know what happened to them? Whites came in and destroyed them because they were jealous. One of the communities was bombed from the air by whites. And you should be concerned about how they portray Italians on tv. I wonder if people in different parts of the world think you are all mafia. American Italians in WWII came very close to having their own Manzanar, like the Japanese.
Originally posted by Negrospiritual.....

Italians came to America and immediately began to implement the ruthless, murderous, outlaw tactics of the mafia. Isn't it funny how television, movies, and even gangsta rap glorifies the mafioso who has proven to be much more dangerous and crime loving than any black thug could ever be?

Even though I disagree with Kraaal, both he and Factoid were having a pretty good honest debate....

And now we get this kind of response from Negrospiritual, who I'm sure is smart enough to know that most Italians are insulted by being refered to as "Mafia".

But if Factoid was to respond by saying blacks eat fried chicken, watermelon, and commit crimes, he would be called a racist.

Why can't liberals debate without being insulting??

Thanks Bankins.
Comrad,you say Italians came over and some went into the mafia,I won't deny that. I also won't say it is okay. It is not. But you have to admit,that Italian mafia only killed those that they needed to kill,not like inner city blacks who kill people for the fun of it,gang initiations,muggings,etc. Neither is acceptable,nor do I think is "cool" or justified.

You pointed out a few nice neighborhoods that blacks have. Now point out the countless ones that are shitholes? Whites took the nice ones because they are jealous? Please. If thats the case,what about all the white neighborhoods that existed before blacks moved in? Same thing?

I am not saying that all blacks didn't work hard. But some whites also worked very hard and committed their lives for the black civil rights movement,only to have it thrown up in their face with all the anti white talk. People tend to forget that it took a few very important whites to speak up before blacks where given their rights,they didn't do it on their own.
If whites where so evil in the day,then why would 20 million whites (rough estimates here) in 1860 care what 500k blacks thought or wanted? Because alot of those 20mil whites thought blacks should be treated equal,thats why.

Does the portayal of italians on tv piss me off?
no. simply because I know that I am not that way. I know that that is not me. And partially,there is some truth in all that you see.

As for the Bible. I take that for a grain of salt.I know that man wrote it. It is a gross interpretation (spelling) of what man thought god said,or wanted. do I believe the bible? for what it stands for,yes. But literally,no. I believe in god,I pray everynight,know there is a god above me,thats all I need. I am with you Kraaal,don't believe everything that you read! Oh,and I think Bush is A-ok! smile
Dear Factoid,
I never said anything about Italians coming over and going into the mafia. And your explanation of how and when and who they killed is to say the least, absent of any meaningful argument. A few neighborhoods? Please, do not trivialize. Those are the neighborhoods that we know about to date. And the whites did not take them, they DESTROYED them because they were jealous. Those Black communities were also started by Blacks so you can forget about the whites being there first. If anything, any whites found in Our communities came AFTER Blacks created the communities. Whites moved into Our communities. And you should be concerned about how Italians are portrayed on tv. You are lookng at it from a narrow minded perspective. TV is one of the most dangerous media for Blacks and other minorities because of the way it demonizes Blacks, Japanese, Italians, Chinese, Mexicans, ie, any race that is not white. And I never said anyting about the bible. What are you smoking?
First, I would like to thank you for your military service, and honorable discharge.

I'm not comfortable with our president rubbing noses with Chinese Communist, but I do not find Bush to be a liar.

I believe when you refer to him as such, you cheapen your arguement. I also disagree with your take on Saddam. I see him as a legitimate threat and have posted proof of him attempting to obtain nuke weapons in another post.

So far, you have given us nothing to suggest both that Bush has lied to America, or Saddam is harmless.

Just my opinion, and you did ask.

big grin big grin big grin
Why aren't the Chinese included in Bush's "axis of evil?" Do you think maybe a 1 billion-man standing army might have something to do with why Bush choose N Korea and somehow missed Communist China?

B. Bankins, do you remember when the black churches in the south were burning and candidate for president Senator Dole refused to go there? Why is President's Bush's refusal to address the oldest recognized black organization in the US any different from Dole's refusal to address blacks when their churches were burning? Oh, and Dole Lost his presidential bid!

B. Bankins, the President of the United States has been less than truthful about Iraq. In the media they choose to use different language, e.g., they say "Bush Fabrications." Not less than on three occasions GW Bush and his administration have been questioned about the source of their information, e.g., the US organization Bush cited as saying Saddam will have a nuke in 6 months publicly denied ever giving anybody in the Bush administration that information. Photographs Bush claimed showed nuke sites were again denied and publicly corrected as not what GW had claimed. Did GW provide the public any results of the recent Chinese President's visit to the Bush Texas Ranch? No, but the media did when days later they reported that the Chinese President would not sign on to the UN resolution that allowed GW preemptive powers. Here, GW lies to Americans by simple omission! In fact, when world leaders meet at the Bush Ranch rather than the White House, - lies by omission of GW and his administration will surely follow!!!
Yes kraaal, China should have been named in the "axis of evil" group. They have consistently funded and supplied arms to Middle East despotic countries. No arguement from me there.

But I've been studying this Iraq situation and I believe Bush is telling the truth. He has also given Saddam to opportunity to avoid military action by complying with the UN resolutions like the one in 1998 that calls for the use of force if Saddam does not stop his nuclear weapons activity. The same Euro-elitist who backed the resolution then, now say Bush is wrong to use force.

For your viewing pleasure, I've compiled some links that tell of the saddam threat......

Bush Warns of Saddam's 'Nuclear Mujahadeen'

Britain Reveals Iraqi Bioweapons and Nuclear Program

Iraqi Nuke Chief: Saddam Has Enough Uranium for 3 Bombs

More Proof That China Abets Iraq

And how about the fact that congress is backing Bush on the war with Iraq.....

Senate, House Approve Iraq Resolution

big grin big grin big grin
Carl Limbacher and NewsMax are not credible sources of information. Mr. Limbacher is not associated in any way with the CIA, a credible US global monitoring agency. He has no legitimate sources for information within the CIA or FBI. Mr. Limbacher is not associated with MSNBC, CBS, CNN or any other mainstream news agency. In fact, according to his own Internet page "...And although the mainstream press refused to credit NewsMax," thus; NewsMax at best is the Star, Globe or Enquirer of Internet news. If this is your source of information that leads you to believe that the President is truthful, - then just toss the New York Times aside and pick up a copy of the National Globe!

What I am saying B. Bankins, is that no nuclear monitoring agency, US, British, Canadian or other allied nation has made the claim that Iraq will have a bomb in six months. Only the Bush Administration makes that claim. That's why you never ever heard anything like that until Bush came to office!

Would you mind posting your sources please?

On the subject of allied nations, France and Germany aren't going to say anything bad about Iraq because they believe they will lose all the oil money and all the other money they make now with Saddam in power.

Before Bush came into power, you could find people saying that Iraq is trying to get/build nuclear weapons. You acknowledged before that Saddam isn't going to take forever; that the process of building a nuke isn't finite. Will you at least say why you believe Bush should wait until the last minute to deal with the problem? Will you at least explain the virtue of procrastination? Explain why it is in our best interests to wait *until* the minute Saddam has a nuke for us to do anything about it. Why not do something before then, why wait? Why? This is good strategy because___________?

If it's all about "oil" then at least explain why G.W. just doesn't lift sanctions. It would be cheaper, financially, politically, and militarily.
Both Newsmax and Matt Drudge's sites are said by snooty Big Media to lack credibility, yet their sites are not losing money like the New York Times, Washington Post, MSNBC, ect....

Also, info on the latter sites only remains for a few days, then it's gone. I try not to post whole news articles for obvious reasons.

And....The articles in newsmax all list the sources of their information. This is why I use so much

Now if you can refute at least just one of these articles, or the fact that the UN Resolution in 1998 uses the same language Bush is now using, I think that helps your arguement much better than attacking

big grin big grin big grin
Before Bush came into power, you could find people saying that Iraq is trying to get/build nuclear weapons

Yes Lea you are correct, but after two terms or eight years of Clinton and before him four years of Bush 41, no American before 9-11 ever heard that Saddam could have a nuke bomb in 6-months! GW and his cronies started that lie. Not even daddy Bush, a former CIA Director ever made that claim! GW is a liar!!!

Why is GW silent on Pakistan testing Nukes? Before 9-11, the Pakistani Government was no friend to the US. Surely you are not naive enough to believe suddenly Pakistan is now our friend?

And what about China, they test nukes whenever they get ready, why is their no GW pushing for war with China? How in the HELL does Iraq become a threat with a COMMINIST China who not only is not a friend but possess ICBM's!!!!!

Explain why it is in our best interests to wait *until* the minute Saddam has a nuke for us to do anything about it. Why not do something before then, why wait? Why? This is good strategy because___________?

WHY IS GW not worried about Pakistan, a Muslim dictatorship state, COMMUNIST China, and COMMUNIST North Korea who all have nukes? Why is GW worried about Iraq, a nation that at best will take 6 months to a year to build a nuke and perhaps an additional year to build a delivery system capable of threatening the US shores and beyond? How could GW be so certain that the Communist N. Koreans and Communist Chinese both with Nukes won't attacks us? How could GW be so sure a country who everyone has said could have nukes in a year but has none NOW could be more of threat than the COMMUNIST????WHO DO HAVE NUKE BOMBS!

Why is GW saying Saddam is a threat to Americans but the Russians, Africans, China and Japanese aren't saying that and Britain is the only European nation who believes Saddam is a threat?


Explain why it is in our best interests to wait *until* the minute Saddam has a nuke for us to do anything about it. Why not do something before then, why wait? Why? This is good strategy because___________?

I'm serious. What is good about your proposed strategy? What is strategic about that in any way shape or form? Is it so difficult for you to say? See, the complaint about "six months" makes a lot more sense if in fact, it's sensible to wait for him to get the nukes. So, what is sensible about that?

Pakistan: no, it doesn't occur to me to trust them. They were insane enough to support the Taliban, after all. Musharraf, however, is cooperating, and we have India to fall back on. Pakistan bordered the Taliban, Musharraf was cooperating. Ergo, they were allies. Not in the sense of we can trust them as friends, but in the sense that they were useful and willing to work with us. Is that clear now? China has nukes. That means you don't wage open war on them. Remember the Cuban Missile Crisis? I wasn't there, so let me know, that was a bad situation right? Do we want that to happen again? I ask, because your question indicates we should be going to war with them. Can you say why that would be a good idea? That this is a strategic thing to do? China: stable. Are they deterrable? What do you think? What determines deterrable? Has China gone to war lately? Is there a territory they can take over right now that would be a problem for us? Can they do anything right now, and get away with it? If your question is rhetorical, how about one based on an actual possibility?

The Russians: what I said about France and Germany? That applies to the Russians. Do you still think their opinion matters?

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