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This is not my topic, but one that was discussed with a group of women that are in my friendship circle. According to them, men run from them due to intimidation. I disagreed with them, but that didnt go over too well with them. My question here is, are men 'fearful' of a 'strong' woman. Granted, I do not know what exactly 'strong' means in that context, but I figured it had nothing to do with bodybuilding Big Grin . Anyway, comments please. God Bless you Wink

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I have trouble understanding what a "strong woman' is as well but if you mean sucessful I don't find them intimidating at all. I have heard women say the same thing but I think it deals more with male ego and control, and some brothers can not deal with playing second fiddle.
If a woman has a great career, her own place, car and life, I say more power to them. I'm sure that just like a male she had to work hard to get where she is.

Catch
If you mean strong women you mean a woman that has more money, power and influence than than you, then my advice is run like hell. A wise man would stay away from a woman with more power and money than he has. It is nothing to do wih intimidation it is plain common sense at work. Women are genetically programmed to be attracted to rich and powerful men and not the other way round. Look in the animals kingdom to learn some wisdom, just as the strong male is the one all the females want so it is with humans. Women would always be attracted to someone they can look up to in this case someone in a better station in life than they are.

Your female friends and you Radio sound like spiders playing with a fly listen to them and you would be eaten alive and know what HELL ON EARTH is. Most people who say there is nothing wrong in this type of relationship I bet you have never lived it or seen it closeup in action. I have and it is not a pretty picture. You would be treated as a doormat. You would know DISRESPECT on a grand scale. You would see your woman having sex with other men IN YOUR FACE and there is nothing you can do about it. Women are by their very nature bitchy and nasty given the chance while men on the other hand can generally be chivalrous and gallant towards women. This means a woman in the position to do so can make you more miserable and get away with it than if the shoe was on the other foot.

Trust your instincts and learn from society at large, if what your female friends are saying is not the norm, don't allow yourself to become the experiment. You would be made into mince meat and the butt of jokes in the female cliché.

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Is it just talk or are you for solutions? If you are GENUINELY interested in solving black problems? Then join us at http://www.theguidedog.com/BlackNation.html
Henry's ridiculous diatribe notwithstanding, no. Most men don't fear "strong women." Most men don't even know what a "strong woman" is. What is that, anyway? I've known a lot of women who claim they're alone because men are "intimidated" by how "strong" they are. The thing is, some of the very men who decided not to mess with them tell them that. The reason, however, is that most of these men are lying to them. It's not easy to tell a woman you're not attracted to them, or that there's something about their personality that you don't like, or that you're not interested in a committed relationship. But I have had female friends who, although I care about them, have some glaring things wrong with them that they don't acknowledge. And it's always these women who tell me how men reject them because they're "too strong." It's a variation on "It's not you. It's me." And of course, the black media eats that stuff up, so you can't tell a woman that there's something about them that's wrong.

And sometimes, even if there's nothing wrong with the woman, the man is not interested in a committed relationship. These men also use the "you're too strong" line, because they don't want to sound like dogs.

And it has nothing to do with how much money, although sometimes that's an issue. Black American women have inferiority complexes (witness Prophetessofrage feeling the need to hold up make-believe black queens who never existed, holding them as testaments to black female greatness). And they desperately want to hold onto notions of their own strength and this and that, because it's better to feel like that's why a man passes them by than that there's some actual problem with the woman.
My wife is one of the strongest women I know and I think that what makes our relationship so strong. I remember the day when my wife started making more money then me, she came to me asked if that bothered me, I replied "hell no, in fact I'm going to retired early". I think men who fear strong women are really saying that they only feel strong when they are with a weak women.

I have spend so much time away from home that my wife had to be strong to ensure that our household didn't fall apart in my absence, yet she was also strong enough to step back when I came back and resumed my role as head of the household.

Don't fear a strong women, embrace her strength and add to it. It gurantees a strong household and relationship.
But jazzdog, what exactly makes a "strong woman?" And for that matter, what's a "weak woman?" And, to bring this together for me, what about women of average "strength," who are not necessarily "strong" but not weak either? I don't understand these terms. Strong in terms of what? Maybe I'd be less cynical if I understood what people were talking about when they used these terms.
Vox I NEVER said men fear strong women. I am a man I don't fear any woman. What I am saying is if the woman is in a certain situation where she FAR better than you and is going to stay better than you, then run like hell. If you doubt this wisdom show me examples where it is working. The fact is it does not work that is why such relationships are not common.

Another thing most working girls are not what I would call a strong woman. Every woman out there works, does that mean they are all strong women? No far from it. There is a difference that is why you would notice I qualified this difference between this type and what I call a strong woman at the beginning of my post. A strong woman is as I described a woman who has money influence and power. Comb the world and you would find them. My own eldest sister is one such ands I promise you would find the majority has been divorced numerous times and have had multiple partners.

Everyman is a product of his own experience and until the day you can show that most janitors are involved or married to women that earn ten times what they earn and the situation stays like that till they die then I would say you have a lot to learn about women.

Never ever mistake a strong woman to be someone who earns a few dollars more than you. In a situation like this you are both working and earning near and about each others wages and bringing home the bacon so where is the problem? I know strong and powerful women and I assure you women like your Condileesa Rice and others like her fit that bill perfectly and I can tell they don't want a tea boy for a husband or a partner. Having you to satisfy the occasional lustful tendencies she might have yes but NOT someone for her to call her equal.

Until the day you meet this kind of woman I would advice you to hold your counsel.

_____________________________
Is it just talk or are you for solutions? If you are GENUINELY interested in solving black problems? Then join us at http://www.theguidedog.com/BlackNation.html
to no one and everyone...

is strength measured in money, education, social power only?

--or can strength be measured in conviction of opinion, in the ability to stand for herself, the ability to independently compliment a man and not be needy for one??

some men want a woman who only says yes to him, and women who know how to offer a differing opinion can be labeled "too strong".

some men want a woman who can almost do for herself--so that his position in society as the "man" can "take care" of her. independence can be labeled as "strong".

strength can be measured in many ways...not just how much money a woman makes.

i dont think ive ever heard a woman describe a man as "strong" because of how much money he made...

Wink

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hmmm... interesting convo

Vox, I had not thought of the "it's not you, it's me" variation, but don't you think it's possible for a man to be hesitant to approach or engage in convo with a woman who he perceives as having (for lack of better words) a commanding presence?

I have actually had a brotha or two to say to me "before i really knew you and i saw you giving a speech, or doing your thang, I didn't think u would go for a fellow like me" oh man! now u telling me i been tricked! it was the ole "it's not you, it's me"
say it ain't so, Vox
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
But jazzdog, what exactly makes a "strong woman?" And for that matter, what's a "weak woman?" And, to bring this together for me, what about women of average "strength," who are not necessarily "strong" but not weak either? I don't understand these terms. Strong in terms of what? Maybe I'd be less cynical if I understood what people were talking about when they used these terms.



that's my thoughts on it too. How can someone call themselves an undefined term?? I dont think 'strong' is used in terms of bodybuilding, so that it's not a 'physical strength'. Are they 'strong' because they like to 'tell it like it is?'...We all know that's not always a 'positive' thing and often taken too far. I wished 'strong' meant 'supportive', mainly due to the fact that life is too hard sometimes, but that's just me.

here what the Webster's dictionary says:

Main Entry: strong
Pronunciation: 'stro[ng]
Function: adjective

Date: before 12th century
1 : having or marked by great physical power
2 : having moral or intellectual power
3 : having great resources (as of wealth or talent)
4 : of a specified number
5 a : striking or superior of its kind b : effective or efficient especially in a specified direction



I guess I still dont know what it means Confused

***********************************************************
'Sometimes life is obscene' - Black Crowes


Commerical Hall of Fame - All time list


'Who in the hell left the gate open???' Confused

'Somebody put roots on me' Frown

'I've fallen, and I can't give up!!!' broscream
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
hmmm... interesting convo

Vox, I had not thought of the "it's not you, it's me" variation, but don't you think it's possible for a man to be hesitant to approach or engage in convo with a woman who he perceives as having (for lack of better words) a commanding presence?

I have actually had a brotha or two to say to me "before i really knew you and i saw you giving a speech, or doing your thang, I didn't think u would go for a fellow like me" oh man! now u telling me i been tricked! it was the ole "it's not you, it's me"
say it ain't so, Vox


That's a different issue, I think. Or actually, a side of the issue that I wasn't really addressing. You're right, of course, that there are women a man might be intimidated from approaching. If she's on a higher socio-economic level, or really on top of things... or hell, if she's super fine, a lot of guys might figure, "she ain' try'n'a get wit a brotha like me..." That's human nature, and I think women often feel the same way. And in a relationship, a guy might feel intimidated when he sees examples of the things that initially intimidated him, and that might damage the relationship. But I guess I don't view these things as having anything to do with a woman being "strong" or "too strong." The use of that term itself is what I was thinking about. Hopefully, Jazzdog (or SOMEBODY) will explain what is meant by "strong woman." I see a lot of women, about whom there is ABSOLUTELY nothing about them that intimidates or that expect could possibly intimidate, say that guys come out and tell them -- while rejecting them -- that they're "too strong." When that happens, it looks like we're looking at male-to-female diplomacy at work.

And Negrospiritual, you're the exception. You intimidate me 'cause of those tiger fangs in your avatar!!!!
Henry, first off, I'm not attracted to most women who have reached the level of attainment you're talking about, because they tend to be too old. By the time I hit my mid-40s or so, if I'm still single, we can talk. Meanwhile, we're not talking about Oprah Winfrey, or Condoleeza, or anybody of that caliber, in this discussion. (And let's face it, with some of the extreme authoritarian views re: women's sexuality that you seem to have, it's easy to see why a woman of that kind of power would treat you mean!)

See, in America, the term "strong black women" is used to describe most black women who don't have a man. As you can tell from the flow of this thread, many of us suspect that the term has no meaning as applied to them. The term, to me, seems to be thrown around by single women to explain why they're single. Ebony and Essence Magazines throw that term around all the time, but nobody defines it.

One thing I notice is that it's used often in discussions of black men dating white women. The idea, designed apparently to make black women feel better about themselves, is that white women are super-subservient and that black men prefer that to the "strong black woman" who complains about the toilet seat being up, and who "takes no junk." In the interracial context, the reality is that a lot of black men think white features are more attractive than black features, and that hurts many of our so-called "strong" women deeply enough that they'd rather make it about some other issue. Of course, the men are happy to go along, because they don't want the drama that comes with admitting that they physically prefer white women.
guess what?

sistas are quick to put me in check when I denounce the SBW "StrongBlackWoman" label. I have never viewed it as a helpful role to occupy since it tends to lead guys, mistakenly, to believe those calling themselves SBW are fiercely independent and don't need a dayum thang from a black man! It also conjurs up images of sistas dealing with emotional baggage of abandoment, pain, and defensiveness.

As feminist as I am, I will put it out there that no sista is an island. we need loving, protection and support just like other groups of women do! I'm particularly weirded-out when I hear 13-14 year old girls talking bout some "i'm gonna be a strong black woman and take care of myself"

Does she believe there will be no brother to lean on when she is of age?

But still, others can point to the resilience, the determination, the spirituality of many of our sistas and put a positive spin on SBW - and I ain't mad at em. We do have to protect and uplift ourselves more than any other group of women. But what are we telling ourselves, our daughters, and brothers about love and relationships when we embrace a label that seems to serve to isolate?
Intimidated by strong women? Yes or maybe. But fear? No. The thing is that we men at times take it very serious and personal when a woman has a differing opinion that questions our intellect, manhood and basically (I may be too over the top) to the point of questions our significance of living.

And the income doesn't even come to question yet. I think some women just don't understand that to brag about how "independent" you are could be misconstrued as "I don't need a man, particularly you." It sometimes make you feel less of a man. If that woman lost her job, she wouldn't feel less of a woman compared to a guy feeling less of a man if he lost his job.

Society doesn't measure a woman's womanhood by how much $$ she makes, because if she made more or less than her husband, her womanhood isn't measured that way and not considered "less" of a woman for that.
quote:
Originally posted by Nykkii:
to no one and everyone...

is strength measured in money, education, social power only?

--or can strength be measured in conviction of opinion, in the ability to stand for herself, the ability to independently compliment a man and not be needy for one??

some men want a woman who only says yes to him, and women who know how to offer a differing opinion can be labeled "too strong".

some men want a woman who can almost do for herself--so that his position in society as the "man" can "take care" of her. independence can be labeled as "strong".

strength can be measured in many ways...not just how much money a woman makes.

i dont think ive ever heard a woman describe a man as "strong" because of how much money he made...

Wink

red
BLACK
green

HEY NYKKII!!! I was just about to start a post asking if anyone's heard from you! Hey what happened to your avatar? got tired of people telling you how hot you are? brosmile

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Then I heard another voice say:"come out of her,my people,so that you will not share her sins,so that you will not receive her plagues, for her sins have piled up to heaven and YAH has remembered her crimes,give her back as much as she has given;pay her back double what she has done. Mix her a double portion from her own cup. Give her as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself."(Revelations 18:4-7)
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Huey

if a man can't tolerate differing opinions shouldn't the man change, not the women? After all women have been raised to "have a brain, have a voice, have a mind" since at least the 60's.

Should a sista have to surpress her true personality to help a brotha feel powerful?


No, but should a brotha surpress his ambition, potential, and responsibilities without being scrutinized as threatening a sista's independence?
What I'm saying is it's a no-win situation for a man, particularly for a black man.

If we men assert ourselves and do what we are responsible for (household and giving to our families), someone is questioning either our blackness or manhood by saying that we're whipped. Or some will say we're taking away a woman's new independence. If we try to improve ourselves outside the sports and entertainment arena, especially somewhere that's academic, we're not even given the time of day, or we're labeled as "weak". Remember Chris Rock's standup special on HBO, when he said "Brothers get more love getting out of jail than from graduating college?"

If men go the "thug" route, then we're labeled as irresponsible (as some are), despite the fact that many are being rewarded for just acting thuggish, or a twisted urbanized version of an alpha male. But no one will question a thug's manhood, at least not unarmed anyway.

No matter what we do, our masculinity is always in risk of being questioned, even when we try to improve ourselves. Why a woman's femimininity is never questioned when she improves herself, but if a "black" man doesn't fulfill all the stereotypical requirements, he's either not manly enough or not black enough?

Going back on my original post...
If a woman was making LESS money than her husband, society won't percieve her as LESS of a woman, compared to a man being percieved as LESS of a man if he earns less than his wife.
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
What I'm saying is it's a no-win situation for a man, particularly for a black man.

If we men assert ourselves and do what we are responsible for (household and giving to our families), someone is questioning either our blackness or manhood by saying that we're whipped. Or some will say we're taking away a woman's new independence. If we try to improve ourselves outside the sports and entertainment arena, especially somewhere that's academic, we're not even given the time of day, or we're labeled as "weak". Remember Chris Rock's standup special on HBO, when he said "Brothers get more love getting out of jail than from graduating college?"

If men go the "thug" route, then we're labeled as irresponsible (as some are), despite the fact that many are being rewarded for just acting thuggish, or a twisted urbanized version of an alpha male. But no one will question a thug's manhood, at least not unarmed anyway.

No matter what we do, our masculinity is always in risk of being questioned, even when we try to improve ourselves. Why a woman's femimininity is never questioned when she improves herself, but if a "black" man doesn't fulfill all the stereotypical requirements, he's either not manly enough or not black enough?

Going back on my original post...
If a woman was making LESS money than her husband, society won't percieve her as LESS of a woman, compared to a man being percieved as LESS of a man if he earns less than his wife.



very interesting thumbsup

***********************************************************
'Sometimes life is obscene' - Black Crowes


Commerical Hall of Fame - All time list


'Who in the hell left the gate open???' Confused

'Somebody put roots on me' Frown

'I've fallen, and I can't give up!!!' broscream
I, for one, do not fear a 'strong Black woman' because strong Black women are the reason we are still in existenance in this country. They kept, intact, the families when the Black man was unable to. This was through no fault of his (the Black Man's) own. The Black man was made to depend of the Black woman because this would insure that the europeans could control Black men through them. Today, the europeans still use the Black woman to control and degrade the Black man. Some of our women buy into this system of degredation and some don't.

Under this brutal capitalist system our women have to take the mantel because the Black man still is a real threat to the well being of his european counterpart. Europeans created the 'strong Black woman' by circumstance. They literally destroyed the ability of the Black man to produce and maintain a suitable income for the lively of his family. He had to take menial jobs or no job at all. The so-call emanicipate slaves had no marketable skills, could not read, write or understand if they could. For the most part they had to become slaves all ove again. Thus, the Strong Black woman stepped in.

Black woman had to take up the slack. They were (as they still are today) being manipulated for sexual pleasures. They had to do this, sometimes, to maintain or keep their job. They were abused and misused by their employers and had to work extremely long hard hours for extremely small pay. There was no minimun wage law to assist them therefore the Black woman was paid what ever the ex-slave master wanted to pay her. She had to feed and take of her children and perhaps her man as well. This demeaned the man and made him feel useless. Still goes on today. Some of the men became alcoholic's. Same thing happened and is happening on the Native American reservations.

Our Beautiful Mothers, Wives, Sisters, Female Relatives and Girlfriends are our backbone, make no mistake about it. Some have decided that they cannot gat a Black man 'on their level' (what ever the hell that is) so they turn to the european men. Slavery days are here again. This means that they have become anglo-saxons or at least bought into the sisterhood of their european female counterparts. Many Black women hate Black men and would not have one no matter what. To them, I say 'SEE YA" or ADIOS AMIGO. But, they need to be careful. Racism will always exist in this country and you can easily get caught up in it. And guess who will be coming to your rescue. US!!!


Brothers, don't be afraid of any Black women be she strong or be she weak. We need them. They need us. We need each other. Lets have mutual respect for one another and not become jealous if she is making more money than you. Just be thankful for what you got. They, for the most part, are better educated and more employable. Europeans trust them more because they are not a 'threat' to their manhood. Besides, it keeps Black men out of the sight of their sex craved promiscuois women. And my Beautiful Black Sisters, please understand that what is happening to our Black men is by design and will work only if you allow yourself to be used into thinking you can do without them. Once when we were kings you were treated as our queen. The european way of life destroyed this system and replaced it with a system of disrespect, non-caring, and untrustworthyness. Thats why there are so many divorces. Marry for the wrong reasons. We cannot afford to fall into the trap set by europeans of hating and continusous fighting and the killings of our race. Again, all of this is by design. To him the blame for the degregation in the community is our fault, not his. At least that what the europeans are selling to the world.

Please allow me to say that I am not a racist. I do not hate the europeans because not all europeans are demonic. I do hate what they did and what they are still doing to us. Unlike what the bible teaches, I do hate my enemies. I will never turn the other cheek amd I will do unto others what they do to me. There are many strong Black Men out there if the sisters would take the time to look for them and not use the european system of finding a man. The same is true of strong Black Women. I am a realist and an extremely proud Black Man!!! I LOVE MY PEOPLE!!! We were here first and we will be last, but we will be here, make no mistake about it. Our Ancestors, with GOD's help, will insure this. Hotep My Beautiful Black Brothers and Sisters. Listen to www.wblr.com and learn the truth. Learn 'our-story, not his-story. You can e-mail me www.cpohio1940@aol.com. Again, HOTEP (Peace). OLU

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@ MBM and Ricardomath:

Thanks! This part of the board needed a little levity. If I ever use those punchlines, I will be sure to credit you gentlemen.

@ Carl:

Thank you! You laid out plainly what I assumed many of the posters already knew. Our relationship issues result from devious tricks played on our men and women. Until we acknowledge the impact these tactics have had on our men and women, these threads will keep popping up with no real progress made toward solving our relationship problems.

We need each other now more than ever!

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